UM nuclear professor makes presentation on Fukushima Unit 4 pool indicating “Damage to Rack?” — “Handles not visible?” (PHOTOS)

Published: December 31st, 2011 at 11:22 am ET
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87 comments


December 2011 – U of M Prof. Tom Downar – Fukushima Daiichi Presentation, Enformable, Dec. 30, 2011:

  • Professor Tom Downar
  • Nuclear Engineering & Radiological Sciences
  • University of Michigan
  • 12/30/2011

See also: [intlink id=”missing-fuel-assembly-racks-spent-fuel-pool-4-video” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Published: December 31st, 2011 at 11:22 am ET
By

87 comments

Related Posts

  1. Reporter on Unit 4 Pool at Fukushima: Water was muddy and brown — Fuel inside not visible February 21, 2013
  2. Ex-Chairman of U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission: Upcoming ‘attempt’ to remove Fukushima Unit 4 spent fuel is very, very unprecedented — Pool has significant structural damage — Will be very risky (VIDEO) September 24, 2013
  3. NRC March Email: Spent Fuel Pool No. 4 was likely dry enough to lead to catastrophic explosion — Structural damage to pool area known to exist — Pool leakage likely January 7, 2012
  4. Report: Nuclear material came off unused fuel assembly removed from Fukushima Unit 4 pool — Cobalt-60 at 1,400,000,000 Bq/kg — Debris “felt like grit” (PHOTOS) March 26, 2013
  5. Yomiuri Reporter: Fuel rods were not visible when looking under sheet covering Unit 4 pool May 28, 2012

87 comments to UM nuclear professor makes presentation on Fukushima Unit 4 pool indicating “Damage to Rack?” — “Handles not visible?” (PHOTOS)

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    They sure teach em to make nice charts at MIT..
    The situ is not stable….dude…

  • hbjon hbjon

    Damage to rack? What is that supposed to mean? Where are the thousands of fuel assemblies? I don’t see the fuel. The fuel is gone. Adios fuel. Fuel went bye bye. No fuel assemblies= no fuel rods= no fuel. How did they get this sfp to hold water?

  • Kevin Kevin

    Intersting?

    Please provide the same for reactor 3’s SFP.

    • Bobby1

      Destroyed Spent Fuel Pool SFP3 of Reactor Unit 3 at Fukushima Daiichi 8 May 2011

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KugIrnThul0

      • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

        Not surprised to hear the filters are clogged. Boy, what a mess.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        This is from May 10, 2011

      • Kevin Kevin

        Oh well then, you can see where they definatively declare the pool perfectly intact.

      • James2

        The SFP3 shown in that video is definitely not destroyed. Destroyed pools are not full of water.

        That pool has lots of concrete and twisted metal that fell into it when the rest of the plant was destroyed, but the pool is intact.

        • Kevin Kevin

          yes you have made yourself clear, it is just without supporting evidence it is impossible to believe you. Thanks for repeating though.

          • James2

            The evidence is in plain sight in the video.

            By definiion the pool is not destroyed if there’s water in it.

            I’ll simplify the process for you….

            1. Can you see the water in the pool?

            If yes, the pool is not destroyed

            If no, then the pool might be destroyed, or you might be an [REMOVED].

            2. Can you see twisted rebar and broken concrete?

            If yes, it’s junk that fell into the pool
            If no, then the pool might be fine or you might be an [REMOVED]

            3. If stuff fell into the pool and the pool still holds water do you think he pool is destroyed?
            If yes, you are an idiot
            If no, the pool is not destroyed

            • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

              For all you know, they are adding water continuously to the pool.

              • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                We are only shown a tiny portion of the pool:

                This slide shows approsimate visible portion of pool in video. It is slide 29
                http://enformable.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Slide293.png

              • James2

                Yes, I do know they were adding water at the time. I don’t know how often or whether it was continuous or not.

              • For all you know the video of 3 is not a video of 3

                • Toadmac

                  I am 100% hearing you stock! Anything handed to us that clearly shows things in relatively good condition in of the units 1-4 should not be taken as fact IMO. I am of the opinion that some of the organisations and parties involved might not be completely truthful? Just my opinion and now I’m starting to wonder if anyone else has noticed the same thing?
                  Least we forget my friends!!

                  • Indeed, such blatant lying is amazing to me, as a stronger backlash is the likely result.

                    However, should this have been a prompt criticality, that would be a large nail in the coffin of nuke, and THEY must avoid having their toys taken away from them at all cost.

                • James2

                  It’s a fair question, but I’m pretty sure that one is #3.

                  At the time it was taken, they weren’t yet in full lockdown coverup mode yet, and the video pretty well lines up with what you would expect from the exterior shots.

            • Kevin Kevin

              thanks James, we have been through this before. and I have already stated that I will not continue this discussion as clearly it is impossible to engage in a meainingful dialogue without your resorting to any number of ridiculous assertions.

              With respect to a camera being in water. First off it is my understand that contineoues flows of water into whats left of various levels of containment is ongoing resulting in the huge dumps of radioactive water into the ocean. Second, of all the video shot none show any nuclear fuel bundles. Of the couple vids that do show one or two bundles they show them as isolated one offs and only expose the bundle handle. And as I have repeatedly stated, to any discerning mind that is not evidence of anything definitive. In fact, based on such evidence it would suggest precisely the opposite, that the pool has indeed been disrupted by multiple explosions.

              Finally, my original comment was based on the fact that in this post SFP 4 shows, definetively without a doubt a fuel pool which ise easily compared against specs (such as Anee has provided). Its clear what we are looking at is part of a fuel pool at reactor 4. It is not clear what the status of the entire pool is, but at least we are able to make some proper observations.

              The point I have made all along is no such evidence exists for three. The official narrative is that it is intact. My opinion is such that if, in fact, the narrative were true they would have been able to provide the evidence they base the statement on. Which they have not. My issues has everything to do with the official version of events and status of the pool and nothing to do with you as I have dismissed you a long time ago as a crackpot. But do continue raging on if it brings you some sort of perverse satisfaction.

              • James2

                Well Kevin, the one thing we can agree on is that I believe the pool has indeed been disrupted by multiple explosions – as evidenced by the piles of rubble that fell into it.

                In fact I think it’s safe to say that everything for hundreds, even thousands of miles has been disrupted by multiple explosions.

                Now if you are waiting for me to produce pretty pictures like the ones in the presentation above showing the fuel racks, well then I think we can also agree that’s not going to happen, because there’s tons of roof material all over whatever fuel is in the pool, and unlike the misinformationalists, I don’t want to bother photoshopping something that’s not true.

                So your point is apparently that the spent fuel is not in there, because you cannot see it through the rubble and because I cannot produce a picture of the fuel through the rubble then saying I believe the fuel is still in there, even though you admit the official record agrees with me, is a ridiculous assertion.

                Got it.

                • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                  @all, anyone else thinking
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDYyv-iLmRY

                  🙂 🙂 🙂

                • Kevin Kevin

                  This will be my last go round with you, I promise.

                  I have only asked you to provide material to back up your statements. Anyhing at all will do, however you refuse to do so, claim your knowledge of the circumstance supercedes that of your citics and the onus is on them to prove you wrong. This is an odd track of reasoning, as it is you that is making unsubstantiated claims that to your mind are “100%” accurate, and the rest of us are simply looking for evidence that supports the claims you make and most have provided a myriad of data that suggests your wrong.

                  That said, I also find it odd that you hold up the official story ( as agreeing with you – lol – dude they dont even know you are or care) however you spend your days on here attacking the offical narrative and unearthing any number of points ( real or fictitous) as evidence that the officials are undertaking a devious misinformation campaign. So how on earth can you hold up there material as evidence of your outrageous claims? You cannot have it both ways James. They are either out to fool with misinformation or they are not, and it serves you poorly to hold up their data when it serves your perverted purposes yet dismiss the rest.

                  The only piece you have referred me to was the INPO report, which was a ridiculous, self serving load of complete and utter rubbish devised by the minds of TEPCO and IAEA in what to me is a criminal cover up. None of the material therein supports anything you say accept the hollow assertion that the sFP 3 is intact, but much like you they provide no evidence. Like how they continue to cling to the Hydrogen explosion theory and any number of other points of disinformation.

                  Finally in your last rebuttle you put words in my mouth, suggest things I do not state and once again muddy the waters with a bunch of unfounded nonsense.

                  My issue is really very simple. There is no evidence that supports the official version of the story that the feul pool is intact. Period.

            • Enenews Admin

              Name-calling is not tolerated. Please report comment if it happens again.

              • Kevin Kevin

                Thank for both the reminder and the removal of the post containing personal information.

                Has admin considered including the capacity for private messaging? I admit that I have not paid attention to the discussion around the message board but both a PM capacity and the ability to be notified if your post has been responded to would certainly help given the sheer size of the board and number of threads.

                  • Kevin Kevin

                    thats a good video in that it shows great hd pics and good close ups. leaves us all with the same bewilderment the presenter has.

                    Thanks for posting it.

                  • James2

                    Analysis of this video of #3

                    So chemfood, that video shows all the same pictures I used to analyze what happened at reactor 3.

                    The person that made it doesn’t realize all the details, or has simplified it in order to make a point.

                    Let me point a few things out to you:

                    Stop the video at exactly 2:05. This is a good overhead view of #3 about two weeks after the explosion.

                    Blow it up to full screen. Notice first the lattice roof structure which held up the reinforced concrete roof. The concrete is gone and the lattice is draped back down over the wreckage moved a few feet south and a bit askew.

                    Second notice the center joint of the roof sctructure – which is the “star” shaped one near the center of the building (originally was the exact center of the building). In reactors #2, 3 and 4 buildings the reactor itself was positioned a bit off center – which in this shot would be a little to the bottom and left of the center joint. Notice the roof structure has a big hole where the beams are rounded to the bottom and to the left of the of the center joint – more on that later.

                    Notice to the left of this area is the #3 fuel pool, intact, with green water in it and a bit of steam over it. This is indeed the fuel pool that the video referenced above was taken in. At this point they haven’t been adding water to it, and it is heating up – as evidenced by the steam. Amazingly the pool is intact. Everything on the whole site is covered with debris – a lot of crumpled concrete and rebar from the roof – and a lot of that dropped into the pool.

                    They haven’t got a water line on that pool yet because there was hot nuclear material that fell down between #3 and #4 and they couldn’t go in there – eventually they buried it and brought a snorkel in and added cool water to the pool. the snorkel is how they got the camera into the pool.

                  • James2

                    Ok now advance the video to 5:40. Stop it and blow it up to full-screen.

                    This is a different view of the same wreckage. Instead of looking from east to west, you are now looking south to north. to orient yourself find the center “star” beam the roof wreckage – pretty easy to spot.

                    Notice the green water filled fuel pool is still there just on the other side of the south wall, and to the right of the center of the building. The reactor containment is just on the other side of this pool – in fact there is a door that connects the two, that must still be intact, otherwise the pool wouldn’t hold water.

                    Also note the level of the top of the pool is almost up to the level that used to be the reactor floor. Note exactly how high the south wall of the building is in this shot, and that the wall is relatively unscathed below where it’s been blown off.

                    Now notice the very prominent “circle” of roof wreckage that I talked about in the previous note. This circle is a perfectly round hole in the roof beams, which did not exist before the explosion. There were no bent beams in the roof, only straight ones.

                    This circle of beams, which when you compare the two shots I’ve just showed you, you realize is, not over the spent fuel pool, but is exactly over the center of the nuclear reactor, and is exactly the diameter of the reactor cap – is proof in my mind of two things: First that the reactor cap at least, if not the whole reactor ejected in the explosion on March 14th. Second, this photo proves that the explosion did not occur in the spent fuel pool, which is intact, but in the core itself. This shot is literally proof the MOX blew.

                    Let me know if you see these things.

                  • James2

                    Proof the fuel pool fell a few weeks ago

                    Now, last step. Take note of the height of the south wall of Reactor 3 – which contains the spent fuel pool just on the other side of it.

                    Take a good look and use some references to determine how high the wall remains – which is almost up to where the reactor floor was prior to the explosion.

                    Now go look at the latest live TBS/JNN webcam view and compare what the same wall’s height is today.

                    You will immediately understand that the wall is quite a bit lower today than it was back in March when the pictures from this video was taken. You will also realize that, since the fuel pool is just on the other side of this wall – it has collapsed.

                    Ironclad proof that the #3 fuel pool was intact after the explosion and is down now.

                  • chrisk9

                    Reactor # 4 was in a refueling outage so the rpv head and other assemblies would be visible. Reactor # 3 was in normal operation so the Reactor Vessel Head was in place, and thick concrete shield plugs were on top of the head. In normal operation one can walk over the top of the reactor on the 4th floor of the building and not even know what is right under their feet, and their is enough shielding from the concrete that the dose rate is close to normal background readings.
                    Too many non stories floated around by people who do not know the facts and that obscures the real dangers and issues.

                    • James2

                      Are you disputing what I say or the video narrative – which I said was either too simplified or naiive.

                      you are correct that the reactor 4 head was off and the reactor 3 head was on before the explosion.

                      However, my story of how the explosion occured is still valid. The containment cap at least, if not the entire reactor did indeed burst through the roof in the explosion.

                      The spent fuel pool was not destroyed in the explosion, but has fallen down now.

                      If you follow my instructions above and disagree with me, then I’d like to hear your opinion on which part you disagree with.

                    • chrisk9

                      I was mostly commenting on the video narrative, as I did not see all your comments.Did the reactor pressure vessel head blow off the top, or is that even possible? Very doubtful it would eject intact just from my experiences seeing it installed and removed many times. It would have to go through many feet of concrete plugs above it, unless it was in a refueling mode and then the head would be removed also. Could a “nuclear explosion” blow everything straight up in a circular pattern-maybe.But the reactor head would be dust.

                      Could we have complete structural failure in any of the fuel pools? Only if the vast majority of fuel was in some configuration still was covered by water. Otherwise dose rates would be so high no work would be possible on site at all and releases would be so massive that their would be no way to hide the truth.

                  • Look at the roof of the adjacent building. It has a neat ROUND hole in it. It is about the size and shape of a reactor core cover.

                    Want to bet there is a yellow dome sitting at the bottom of that hole?

                    What happened to the spent fuel pool(s) sitting on top of this building and near the reactor core? I do not see those either…

                    • James2

                      Actually I recall the hole being more of an octagon shape – which is exactly the shape of the concrete plug above the cap.

                      Regardless I’m pretty sure something about the diameter of the cap blasted through the roof, and something pretty big came back down into the turbine building roof.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Provide your own research…..cool?

  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    Tom Downar obviously used slides from an old presentation by Arevaclowns for May 13.
    I must admit I don’t understand the message of this presentation.

    And I just love the outlook on slide 34:
    “Impact might include issues with
    – who knows what else?”

    Huh? Nobody knows anything, I thought that’s clear, lol

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJXt2Vd5FM8
    I’m still wondering why no ..interest in Ohi….

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    This slide shows approsimate visible portion of pool in video. It is slide 29
    http://enformable.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Slide293.png

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Here is the slide show, Mar. 27, 2011, see pp. 27-29 for radiological releases:
    http://www.seyth.com/ressources/quake/AREVA-Document.pdf

  • aigeezer aigeezer

    If you search around a bit for Professor Downar, you find some interesting industrial connections that seem far removed from academia.

    Here is one possible starting point:

    http://www.talisman-intl.com/bio.php?username=tdownar

    Note the photos! (but don’t stop there).

    Who/what is Talisman, I hear you ask? Do your own digging, but here’s a teaser:

    http://nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/readingroom/reports/lessonslearned/

    Oh, for what it’s worth, the professor apparently got his first degree at West Point.

  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Get a load of this Headline
    Saturday, Dec. 31, 2011
    EDITORIAL
    The great unraveling
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/ed20111231a1.html
    ~SNIP~
    Sadly, we have shown little aptitude to learn from our mistakes.

    OUCH!!!!

    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      @ Hi Whoopie…did you see this..
      http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20111231x2.html
      Knighthood awarded the Brit ambassador..
      Cor blimey……for his Fukushima response
      Rather like the awards the Air Force got for spraying Corexit….

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        PS….The Ohi thing..notice the shills won’t touch it.

        • Whoopie Whoopie

          Knighthood?!?! What in the hell?!?

        • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

          Oh… heck…let’s start 2012 off with a bang..I SPECULATE..that there was an accident at Ohi…at approxiamately the same time as Fukushima..and because of the interst of the Fukushima…Ohi was overlooked..
          There have been reports that in some areas the radiation is higher outside the Fukushima evac area than in….think some folks got a double dose?
          Knighthood…man…a chance to bow before the Queen…
          …..It would be sorry day in hell… before I would do that…just sayin…..

      • aigeezer aigeezer

        “worked long hours in distressing circumstances… to ensure that British nationals were accounted for”

        Very altruistic (not).

        So it’s a British story. Who knew?

        • They worked long hours on their War of Aggression against Iraqi women and children too (ongoing).

          The Queen congratulated them for that too.

          • aigeezer aigeezer

            Good point, Pu239.

            I tend to underestimate the power of the “go along to get along” meme. A system rewards those who go along with it, regardless of where the path leads. Anyone who chooses not to buy in will get plenty of pushback. Yikes, that’s most of us here!

            At some level I understand why so many people just try to keep their heads down… but that doesn’t work either.

            Life’s menu seems to offer three choices: sell your soul and the emperor will reward you unless the empire collapses; be true to your own moral compass and the emperor’s agents will make you pay, or keep your head down and be a pawn in the games of others – complaining all the while.

            This has to be a false dilemma – there must be a fourth choice (or more) available, but what?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

  • a little sidekick for me is the phrase used in the slides of “permanent evacuation” due to nearby fallout. what exactly does “permanent” mean here?
    not to mention other funnies like the the draft of the broken drywell near reactor 2 emitting something

  • bc

    Hi Kevin,

    I live on Vancouver Island, I have posted a few times but don’t like the internet. I have a geiger counter and the will to understand all of of this. Unfortunately this is the most important thing happening right now. 8884893 throw caution to the wind and contact me please.

    Chris

    • Kevin Kevin

      Thanks for this Chris.

      I have the number you posted here. I would request admin remove your post however, given your hesitancy of the internet its not wise to have your number up.

      I will be in touch in the coming days.

  • James Tekton James Tekton

    Howdy ALL and Happy New Years to Everyone on EneNews.

    May I take this time to thank you ALL for your contributions and positivity added to this forum. As was wisely said here, we are all each others support and we are ALL family here. A truly great thing happens when we all gather here for truth and real information.

    May I also dearly thank you all for being the beautiful and informed caring Souls you all are. We are very blessed and grateful to be part of this community. We are all EneNewzers!

    Please never forget Our Saving Grace:

    United we Stand…Divided we Fall.

    Family and Community…will save us All!

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    gif2012-happy new year Pictures, Images and Photos

    • pure water

      Wise and noble soul you are! Thanks, and let us wake up those who can see and hear! And let us make act the best part of these who are responsible! I wish just good health, clear mind, and loving hearth to all of you, here! You are the best!

  • jec jec

    Changes to R4 structure, may make all the discussion on fuel pool OBE. What would be invaluable is a CURRENT look at all the reactors..and into the fuel pools. The old videos and photos probably are only good for historical uses (or histerical usses). The AS IS is probably a lot different now. Wonder if anyone was trying to BURN up the nuclear fuel..in a fire or such..(“worklight? anyone”). That would be make more sense for a “filter” needing to be changed out for Reactor3 area. The TEPCO announcement is confusing. So workers rest a few days, they stop cooling the location, before replacing filter..huh? Just sounds a little unusual. Of course..no money..could the the factor.

    Wonder what happens when workers go home –and what they tell family. If I was TEPCO.I would not want any gossip to happen..and you know its going to occur. They probably need to keep those workers underwraps for a long time.or at least until they get the public informed of the full extent of the disaster(and officals can get out of “Dodge”).

    …so far..Party line is “Everything is fine, move back, COLD SHUTDOWN..etc etc.” A few workers are probably not going to stay quiet..especially if any are sick….