ABC: Ground to be frozen around Fukushima reactors? “An unprecedented challenge in the world” (VIDEO)

Published: May 30th, 2013 at 11:00 pm ET


ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), May 30, 2013 (h/t Anonymous tip): The Japanese government has ordered the operator of the Fukushima nuclear plant to freeze the soil around its crippled reactor buildings to stop groundwater seeping in and becoming contaminated. […] According to a report compiled by a government panel on Thursday, there are no previous examples of using walls created from frozen soil to isolate groundwater being used for longer than a few years. This means the project at the Fukushima plant poses “an unprecedented challenge in the world”.

Japan Times: The panel’s draft report said the government and Tepco hope to create the frozen-soil walls between April and September 2015. […] A rough estimate suggests that groundwater seepage into the basements would be reduced from 400 tons [every day] to 100 tons once the frozen-soil walls are built.

Watch NHK’s broadcast here

Published: May 30th, 2013 at 11:00 pm ET


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90 comments to ABC: Ground to be frozen around Fukushima reactors? “An unprecedented challenge in the world” (VIDEO)

  • Lion76 Lion76

    "Tepco hope to create the frozen-soil walls between April and September 2015. […] A rough estimate suggests that groundwater seepage into the basements would be reduced from 400 tons [every day] to 100 tons once the frozen-soil walls are built."


    • Proton

      They will claim that 75% beats half-assed?

    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      400 tons of water = 95,600 gallons.

      The use of the smaller number is meant to distract from the grim reality of almost 100,000 gallons a day (officially) of highly lethal radioactive water flowing into the Pacific Ocean every day.

      It is certainly on the low end of possibilities.

  • Proton

    just wait for the kicker… They're gonna need 5 new High-output nuke reactors to produce the energy required for the freezing project.

    • We Not They Finally

      Proton, we would be rolling in the aisles in laughter with that, if it weren't all so criminal and messed up.

      • Proton

        No humor to my comment there… Any news of some improvement action there is way beyond humor. After the laughter, comes tears… Question is, Who has been laughing this hole time?

  • We Not They Finally

    Does this just SOUND cuckoo-bananas? They spend a SUMMER, two summers hence, freezing uncontained, unseparated soil, and using WHAT? Giant mobile refrigerator pipes burrowing into the ground?? And where do the pipes GO? They cannot even LOCATE the corium! Much less get anywhere near it if they do. And why is the problem hundreds of tons of water seeping INTO the facility every day? The problem is hundreds of tons of water seeping OUT. Into the ocean. The Pacific Ocean. OUR ocean. The WORLD'S ocean. Even if this lame-brained scheme were to work, the extra 300 tons of toxic water every day would now just poison US, not them? We were already sure that the TEPCO people belong in jail. Now we are sure that they belong in a lunatic asylum!! Would not the massive output of electricity they propose go to better use with shock treatment?

    • Trawling4Trolls

      Oh, they'll be in an asylum, all right. A weapons merchant's asylum.

      And one of their asylum-mates will be Mr. Kim of North Korea. You know, the guy with the third world economy who threatens to shatter imperialist forces with nuke strikes?

      A reign of adolescence for the gullible.

    • RichardPerry

      We Not They Finally:
      From my information about Fukushima Power Plants.
      TEPCO only paid for and operated what the designers, Engineers, contractors, inspectors, over seeing committees, etc left them. The whole Nuclear industry has caused this more then TEPCO. How come these plants were built like they where, a cost over run of 3 times the bid price put the builders in a losing position of millions at the time when a million was a huge project. They had to redesign to stop the bleeding at the cost of safety, all involved turned a blind eye to what was happening because the industry was now in pearl.

      • We Not They Finally

        To RichardPerry: On the other hand, that's a little like saying that someone has multiple personality disorder and that "that other guy did it." TEPCO IS[!!!!!] the nuclear industry as much as anyone. They even have "a TEPCO chair" at MIT to spin out lies. Do you somehow think that TEPCO and the IAEA and the NRC and GE (etc.) are all just "separate entities"? They're not. It's part of the massive down-side of globalism. And it's as intertwined as is the international banking system. Even all our hoped-for "protections" — like the EPA, the World Health Organization, university-based research — it's all been corrupted.

  • byron byron

    They gave us a number of 400 tons. No basement can hold 100 tons or at least more than a few days of 100 tons (each basement). This means just about all of that is going into the ocean every day. And what happens if they were to actually cut the flow to 100 tons? It would mean they would have to keep the ground frozen for a long time. Probably need to start up one of the other NPP to do that, huh? 🙂

    • Anthony Anthony

      There is something about the way you write the numbers here so simply that has me puzzled. 400 tons of water is a whole lot of water to even physically manage with excellent system design. I'm not calling them a liar and not calling out your point, but that is a major amount of water. Following your thought if their figure is correct, they are then utterly polluting the Ocean. That they have sieved that volume through their machinery and still cant account for the leaks… boggles the mind. Given such a picture, what opposite metaphor can you create to counter this Nuclear Industry symbolism?

      This situation is extremely cray cray as they say.

      • patb2009

        400 tons is 800,000 pounds or 100,000 gallons. That's an olympic swimming pool every 2 weeks.

        Even if they slow the rate by 4, that's still a lot of water.

        What they need to be able to do is pump the basements out, and treat all the water.

        First they need to find the corium.

        • They are talking about groundwater which includes underground streams from rain runoff from mountains nearby. Location is by the ocean so all inland groundwater flowing over fuku leaks into cracks in basement foundation and wherever corium might have melted through. The 400 ton number is conservative in my estimation.

          • irhologram

            So the plan is for the groundwater to come in contact with and flow around the frozen section? But not under it? How far down does the coffer extend? Beneath the groundwater?

            • irhologram

              Should we be aware of the fact that the source of the article was an "anonymous tip" and not "a reliable source?" There's a difference in journalism-speak. But assuming this tipster is legit, how long will they have to keep applying liquid nitrogen? Forever? And what happens when the next EQ, tsunami, or gnawing zombie rat disables the nitrogen supply?

              • Time Is Short Time Is Short

                The news is from ABC, Australia. The 'anonymous tip' is who sent the news link to Enenews.

                There's no shortage of nitrogen. Once Japan is uninhabitable in 2015, and the US probably by 2020, they'll ship the nitrogen in from South America by air and, using robots, carefully reconnect the new gas bottles by the billions, for the millions of years necessary to keep the ground frozen.

                I'm sure Kajima is up to this task, no problem. /sarc.

  • yellowrain

    Lets ask the molten reactor cores what they think of this plan? Gee why don't they just freeze the cores and call it a day. some days you just wish Elmer J.Fudd was in charge.

  • nedlifromvermont

    Let's just take it at face value … probably lots of liquid nitrogen, and it shows how expensive and fruitless the management of a nuclear disaster is; but this may be a way to stem excess flow into contaminated reactor basements, and thus stem the flow of radioactivity to the sea; even if very little and way late … perhaps it is as much as they can really do — given the lethal radioactivity levels in other areas, and a dwindling, dedicated staff …

    Good night Tepco, and good night to Fukushima, and Good Night to nuclear reactors everywhere … no longer necessary, time to wind them down and move on to safer and less disaster-prone technologies;

    imho …


  • Securitize

    I see the world repudiate
    And say that for distraction ice
    Is also great
    And would suffice.

  • captndano captndano

    Desperate times call for desperate measures, regardless of the folly

  • Actually an imaginative idea for a change. Too bad the project will take so long if it even gets off the ground. Still perhaps they could host the next Winter Olympics with the worlds biggest ice rink?
    Seriously think the numbers are conservative as groundwater includes water from the surrounding mountains. Its really sad this might be the best they can do.

    • captndano captndano

      Seems to me, the radioactive contaminated water would be giving off heat, right? Now, wouldn't that just melt through the ice? Or, maybe I'm missing something here???

      • Trawling4Trolls

        You're not missing anything, it will be energy intensive.

      • Time Is Short Time Is Short

        The entire facility is giving off heat. The ground itself is offgassing hot nuclear steam through the fissures created by the coriums down below.

        Fukushima is Hell on Earth. How do you freeze Hell?


    It really doesn't add up or maybe I'm really missing something. There was a similar plan at Chernobyl where the tunnel was dug under the reactor. They planned to build a refrigeration system to keep the reactor cool enough it wouldn't melt through the concrete and end up in the aquifer. But ended up filling it with concrete. Maybe tepco knows the corium has already reached the aquifer? Maybe they're going to try and freeze the aquifer? Their agenda is anyone's guess.

    • We Not They Finally

      That's interesting, KDM. So they realize that they cannot save the world, but this is a last-ditch effort to save their own? So that people don't eventually just fall dead from a drink of water?

  • captndano captndano

    Sure, turn the whole damn facility into a huge ice rink….whatever works, I guess???

  • Jebus Jebus

    Tepco is hooked on nuclear crack…

    TEPCO seeks yet more cash for Fukushima payouts

    TOKYO (AFP) – The operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant will ask for more public money to pay compensation, a report said Friday, taking its total cash handouts to an eye-watering $38 billion(dollars).

    • KDM KDM

      Oh but it's almost to cheap to meter. Huh, sounds like the wheel is going to fly off the meter it's spinning so fast!

    • Sickputer

      Tepco is a better panhandler than the UPS, Amtrak, and the Highway Trust Fund combined. I would have to say they learned their lobbying ways ways well by observing GE (the master of legal US tax deductions and rebates).

      But 38 billion is a far cry from the estimated trillions of dollars (German research study) needed to combat a major nuclear disaster. Japan is spiraling into fiscal bankruptcy of the government. I expect Cyprus-like measures to be enacted and also a cash out of foreign bonds. The radiation-related financial panic has not yet quite settled into public consciousness, but the debt debates are raging in smoky back rooms of the Diet.

      I expect numerous Japanese nuclear power plants will be coming online in two months. The military will be beefed up, but the unarmed Japanese people are a feeble threat. The government will act with no concern for social issues.

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Ice walls won't happen. Nothing will, because top scientists of the world are helpless against this ongoing triple meltdown. Highly dangerous radiation continues to permeate the island on a continual basis, thanks to nuclear.

  • Really…?

    Its almost like someone was told to come up with the most outrageous lame brain scheme they could think of and tag a couple of years to it so it sounds like a plan.

    There aren't very many ice ground wall experts around so if they say it can work who's to doubt them.

    We're the only experts, kind of logic, has been utilized by the Nuclear Industry for many years.

  • razzz razzz

    Ground freezing is a well known tried and trued technique ex. tunneling where water problems exist, cofferdams, soil stabilization, etc.

    The frozen ground can heal itself if cracked or damaged i.e. as in an earthquake, it is not that complicated to install.

    At Chernobyl, they had no idea what the corium was going to do and in a panic tried to prepare for all possible events including tunneling underneath the unit to intercept any melted fuel. It wasn't needed as the corium flowed and spread out on different lower floors and cooled.

    Chernobyl suffers from decomposing melted fuel that formed into a glass state when mixing with shielding sands and now is turning into radioactive airborne dust. Fukushima suffers from ongoing radioactive waters leeching everywhere underground beside the disturbed construction debris with fallout.

    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      The coriums..are not only leaching into the sea..but are in some portion …somewhere… in a molten form..below the reactors.
      As evidenced by both emissions from the immediate area and along the shoreline.
      The geological condition continues to be disturbed by the presence of the corium.
      Ground freezing to what depth?

    • I'm not an expert, but I don't think so. Not on this scale. (IMO)

      "for temporary ground support" – from link (Cofferdam)
      keyword: temporary

      The only thing they'll have in 2 more years is to have bought a bit more BS time after 'fibbing' about 3 meltdowns more than 2 years ago.

      Sort of like TEPCO exclaiming in headlines a safe 'cold shutdown' on reactors that have BLOWN UP and MELTED. I can't believe people fell for that one, but they did it seems. 😉

      DAILY continuous, non-stop, accumulating, no end in site radioactive contamination insidiously invisibly destroying or affecting all life it spreads upon. It IS SPREADING to everything via our atmosphere and oceans.

      The 'experts' admit. Even an ice wall won't stop it all. At best the attempt would only slow it down.

      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        "TEPCO exclaiming in headlines a safe 'cold shutdown' on reactors that have BLOWN UP and MELTED"


  • stopnp stopnp

    They can't build a wall in the ground?

  • ruppert

    It's a lot easier to focus on ridiculous plans than it is to think about what has actually happened. They are just trying to run out the clock with crazy schemes.

    The horse has been out of the barn for years. The Pacific Ocean has been trashed. It would have been good if they would have had this "let's do whatever we can" spirit years ago but how can you even try to formulate some plan when you don't even know where the corium is in the first place?

    Even as I say those words, I know they are not helpful to the situation. After watching so much sea life die and radiation spewed around the planet, I just feel it's beyond fixing.

    God I wish I was wrong.

    • eatliesndie eatliesndie

      Yep. Sure. Even if the ground freezing does arrest the ground water flow around the plant, they(tepco) still need to dump the huge volume of "coolant" outflow somewhere…

  • Sol Man

    I believe that it was back in April of 2012 that a nuclear worker said that the corium(s) were 4km (2 miles) into the earth. If that is the case, or anything close to this, then I can not understand how anything will fix this problem.
    Our dilemma is that in every arena all that we were told to believe was based on lies.

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    TEPCO routinely uses "400 tons" as the amount of water flowing in and out of their buildings on a daily basis. This greatly understates the problem, which is that thousands of tons of water flow daily past the corium lava tubes UNDERNEATH the buildings, and into the Pacific Ocean.

    This plan actually accomplishes something many of us here have been advocating since 3/11/2011: Surrounding Reactors1,2,3,&4 with an underground wall, stopping the flow of water past the corium lava tubes.

    They don't say anywhere in the story how DEEP the frozen wall will penetrate, but it will likely intercept all of the groundwater flowing into the Pacific at Fuku. This is a great development, ENEnewsers, IMHO.

    The peoposal comes from Kajima, a major contractor with experience using this technology, so it is a serious proposal. This is also a case of the Japanese Government ordering TEPCO to do something to mitigate the destruction of the Pacific Ocean, which is also a great development. Time for celebration!

    "That large general contractor is Kajima, who has also created the unmanned debris removal system for the Reactor 3 operating floor. Kajima is famous for huge civil engineering projects like tunnels, and this method of freezing the soil is very well known to them."

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      This is a great time to revisit the animated sea surface temperature anomaly:

      Some of the observers here were of the opinion that the anomaly directly off the Fuku coast was showing the progress of Corium1,2,&3 UNDER the sea floor of the Pacific Ocean, as Sol Man reminded us above. If this is actually the case, the heating of the Pacific by Corium1,2,&3 has been diminishing over time.

      It may be that as the corium descends further below the sea floor, less and less water is becoming contaminated and finding its way into the Ocean. It may be that the problem of Corium1,2,&3 has taken care of itself. Which is good, since there is little the human race can do about it now. 😉

      • irhologram

        That's interesting! What accounts for the 2.5 above mean temperature hot spot that hovers between British Columbia and Alaska? Is this a "hot" debris field?

    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      I hope Kajima has better luck than Bechtel up in Hanford. The vitrification plant is now becoming a colossal waste of money and will never operate.

      I'm sure Kajima is not a cesspool of corruption and government bribery, like . . . (fill in the blank)

    • We Not They Finally

      I think it is GOOD that you are injecting some optimism, PhilipUpNorth. I think that it's sincere and we can all use some hope. It just seems fantastically unlikely, since the likelihood of bulldozers kicking up tons of soil to even LOCATE the corium to be encased –two miles under!– and then what? A team of suicidal worker bees testing where corium will interface with ice? And who retrieves the "before and after" samples? And where does the power source for THAT come from, anyway? Just a couple of months back, cooling operations ABOVE-ground stopped when rats chewed through wires. So even as a non-science person, I look at this and it looks bonkers!

      • Time Is Short Time Is Short

        "Hope is the desire to see past reality." – Anon.

      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        My optimism comes from the fact that the Frozen Enclosure and Grout Plan both came from the Japanese Government. This means that, for the first time, the Japanese Government will be directing the Fuku Show from now on, NOT TEPCO! TEPCO had its chance, but can't think beyond trying to preserve shareholder value. We needed some big ideas to deal with these runaway nuclear reactors. These baby steps from the Japanese Government are a VAST IMPROVEMENT over what TEPCO has been dishing out so far. The Frozen Enclosure Plan and the Grout Plan deserve cheers and support from ENEnews, IMHO. :). YEA!!!

  • Flapdoodle Flapdoodle

    I think it more likely they will wait for Hell to freeze over.

  • CB CB

    Someone had a fuktard thought. Another business suited peebrain solution to a global crisis. Sharks with lazers.

  • CB CB

    Please don't drop bombs of plutonium on my my familiy or friends.

    • CB CB

      Please tell the people of the West Coast they are in danger. MSM

      • Time Is Short Time Is Short

        The people on the West Coast are in danger more from the radioactive ocean. The bulk of the airborne radiation came into the PNW, went East along the Canadian border, and spread far and wide after it got past the Rockies.

        The entire US is now thoroughly saturated. There is no place any safer than another, just various shades of impending death.

        • We Not They Finally

          TIS, you may look in on Michael Collins of, if you have not already. He and his wife do testing all over the U.S. Sometimes North Carolina (for ex) shows up at the most hot! It may well be the realty by now. The atmospheric currents apparently circulate around the world every forty days.

  • ForwardAssist ForwardAssist

    Frozen soil wall? Asinine.

    If you can install such technology then you can pour concrete walls instead.

  • weeman

    I recommended this over a year ago, what took them so long, I guess it takes that amount of time to translate what is in enenews to Japanese and implement, as they don't seem to be able to think for themselves.
    Although this is not the answer it is the best we have at the moment to curtail the release of contamination into the ocean, but I don't think it will reduce the amount of contaminated water that will need to be stored., untill such a time that they can use a closed loop system that filters radioactive isotopes, that is the next big step, now let's put our heads together and tell tepco how to do it, cause they are clueless.
    Now make it so said captain Kirk and were is the science officer Spock.

  • many moons

    I don't understand… Earlier the idea was to place the radioactive cores into the ocean so the flow of water was no longer needed to cool them, and the pollution wouldn't matter cause the ocean is already gone. Now they want to stop ground water from becoming contaminated and flowing into the ocean…..incredible, I wonder if these people ever sit down and discuss these ideas with each other?

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Oh ..but let's get on with the folly..nothing like foolishness day in and day out…

    Tepco considers to fill Torus room with grout to stop ground water flowing in
    May 31 2013

    It always comes down to grout..lolol..

  • Sickputer

    This idea shall also pass especially with a 2015 start date. The vaunted cofferdam idea was just hot Tepco air and I expect no less from this silly box with no bottom idea.

    We have a global nuclear disaster on a small Japanese island adjacent to the Pacific Ocean. The caretakers are insolvent and beg for money from Tokyo to keep their high paid executives in business thinking up wild ideas. There is no hope for Fukushima and no hope for central Japan. The rest of the country will be doomed to uncertainty about the safety of food products and other central Japan imports. The shoes of central workers carry contamination on the bullet trains to Tokyo stations. The social stigma of being a central resident is growing by the day.

    Things will get worse, but the big shots in Tokyo will insist all is well and spend billions trying to land the 2020 Olympic bid. They might just win it. Bring your charcoal respirator if you plan on attending. If the radiation doesn't kill you the Chinese smog clouds in 2020 will make you a respiratory invalid.

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      "box with no bottom idea". Sickputer 🙂

      What are the potential problems with the frozen enclosure?
      1. There is no bottom planned for the frozen box, so no way to encase corium, or halt corium from exiting.
      Possible solution: Run pipe down to desired depth, then turn sideways (like they do in fracking wells) to run the pipes under the enclosure.
      2. Loss of groundwater, and lowering the water table inside the frozen enclosure, may allow remaining corium to heat up and go critical.
      Possible solution: Replenish groundwater, keeping the level just below that of the Torus Basement Floor.
      If heating of groundwater within the frozen enclosure becomes a problem, build cooling towers, and circulate ground water between the frozen enclosure and cooling towers to maintain groundwater temperature.

      So much contamination will occur before the frozen enclosure is completed, that the Pacific Ocean Ecosystem may take tens of millions of years to recover. Bioaccumulation in migratory preditor fish such as tuna, may bring down the Pacific Seafood Industry before the frozen enclosure can be constructed.

  • WindorSolarPlease

    It's not stopping, with what they have already done. They have had time to figure this out. Do whatever it takes, do something that sounds like the best idea. They have to try to fix this in a different way, they can't go on doing what they've doing.

    I have hope this will be fixed, but in all honesty if Chernobyl isn't fixed, how will this be?

    Baffles me how anyone can say, with a straight face, that Nuclear Power is the way to go.
    Well, maybe in a way it is, it kills us and the environment, not a way I want to go.

    ~End Nuclear Power~

  • bumpercrop

    Often I have the feeling that nobody is in charge. The gig is up and the Emperor has no clothes. The 400 tons of radioactive waste flowing into the Pacific is sure to increase the already dangerous acidification of our oceans. I appreciate the sincere expressions of grief within this community. I often feel that I am grieving over what we humans have done and continue to do to our habitat. It seems as if humanity is determined to commit group suicide. sad.

    • We Not They Finally

      Most us out here are "humanity." We haven't a clue what the likes of THESE people are. Most of us would not opt for group suicide. This looks more like mass murder. Do read the Red Road prophecies of the Hopis, though. In it, there are mass suicides of groups in cities out of despair, and deformed children everywhere. They do suggest however, that higher evolutionary patterns can redeem. But then again, they also talk of "our brothers from the Stars." We hope that that's so. That there are other, better places. MOST of actual humanity did not cause this. With all our hearts, we want some redemptive course, however that happens.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        Aliens didnt save dolphins, whales, elephants albatross, lion or any other great and noble creature, why would they suddenly opt to save shrewd, weak, aggressive humans? So many species are extinct from natural or man made reasons. Saving man from man… so that more men will reproduce; apparently not a lofty goal of intervention.

        • Anthony Anthony

          How would you know if they did or did not save those animals? If nothing else, their souls returned to the energy, right? I'm not arguing your point, I just wonder how anybody can speak from land about the ocean! I always think of the ocean of our planets other world, and we only scratch the surface! Who is to say that when mass animal die offs happens that an outside force doesn't remove the rest of the animals off the planet whereby we see it as extinction? I think disclosure will show we are more like them than different than them.

          • Anthony Anthony

            **planets AS our other world…**

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            ok Anthony, maybe aliens saved the whales and dolphins we didnt see, or assisted their return to the energy. As bird numbers decrease, its because aliens are taking them away instead of them dying due to pollution

        • irhologram

          OR. They set it all in motion, and because many of them are interdemtional (as good a speculation as any), they find nuclear and all forms of energy yummy, including glandular secretions from animal mutilations.

  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

    the 48 mile Panama canal was finished in 1914, using steam shovels, excavating a trainload of earth that would circle the earth four times. There are 100 ft wide locks that lift ships 85 feet. This illustrates that humans are capable of large projects. They could dredge a very deep channel, lined with concrete and fill this with ice bergs towed from Alaskan or Chukchi waters, if they needed the extra heat sink. Much of the water leak could be contained. If the corium is a few kilometers deep, this presents other problems. Radioactive steam vents would need to be located capped and the steam condensed and treated. The practicality of such ideas is of course debatable, but the point is that engineering feats of greater magnitude have been done a century ago, so the question is largely political.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        see what?

        • Anthony Anthony

          That you are smart and perhaps those in charge should think as you do.

          • irhologram

            Anthony. Ah, but they do think as he does. And will do nothing because of political expediency involving such a cost…not for the end result of profiting from an asset like the Panama Canal, but as an escalating zero negative sum, like pounding sand into a rathole. How's that for mixing metaphors…Chernobyl sand and Fukushima rats…

  • Fukushima is a big money pit. The payoff with the canal was shorter shipping time and money to be made. There is no payoff investing in Fukushima. Oh sure its bad for the environment and should be fixed but that doesn't translate into profits. While its very bad to have radiated water leaking into the Pacific, the idiots arn't losing money over it. Japan is integral to their world economy. To really fix fukushima requires more capital then what they are prepared to mobilize. That's why I pray. Might not help but can't hurt.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      amidst their short sighted greed, a few must question; what happens to Japan's economy if we destroy Japan with radiation fallout? It seems like the public at large has a psychology that supports the few psychopaths rather than acting with independent motivation sense and ethics. All high level politicians must know that 5% of japan is uninhabitable, that this may grow to include Tokyo, and that the fishing and agriculture is ruined. Digging a huge ditch and packing it with ice bergs is easier than building a nuclear power plant

      • Time Is Short Time Is Short

        You missed my info on the Tamayo mindset, CS.

        About halfway down. They're going to go out with honor and glory.

        I wouldn't be surprised if they nuke themselves.

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          timeIsShort….you say tomato, I say Yamato, lets call the whole thing off. But seppuku? Fukuseppuku….I bet the elites just move to New Zealand like Nazis went to Argentina. Seppuku is for true samurai with bushido spirit. It takes guts, not sure elites have 'em now

          • Time Is Short Time Is Short

            Several of the key Nazi's committed suicide, and quite a number of 'true believers'. It could be argued that if the Nazi's had had the A-bomb, they would have nuked themselves rather than let the 'lesser races' have their Motherland.

            Similar to the 'Samson Option' in Israel, but no need to drag that into the conversation . . .

            Point being, self-immolation on a national scale is never out of the question, it really depends on how fanatic the leaders are, and the 'new' Japanese government is of the same fanatical society as their early 1900's forebears, if not more so since they have so much to make up for.

            We need to pray they don't have the bomb in quantity.

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              TIS, probably many leaders would consider suicide and mass genocide as you say. its also the easy way out, as slow death by cancer or stroke plus shame is prolonged misery. Here is a snippet of a seppuku story.

              Bowing once more, the speaker allowed his upper garments to slip down to his girdle, and remained naked to the waist. Carefully, according to custom, he tucked his sleeves under his knees to prevent himself from falling backwards; for a noble Japanese gentleman should die falling forwards. Deliberately, with a steady hand, he took the dirk that lay before him; he looked at it wistfully, almost affectionately; for a moment he seemed to collect his thoughts for the last time, and then stabbing himself deeply below the waist on the left-hand side, he drew the dirk slowly across to the right side, and, turning it in the wound, gave a slight cut upwards. During this sickeningly painful operation he never moved a muscle of his face. When he drew out the dirk, he leaned forward and stretched out his neck; an expression of pain for the first time crossed his face, but he uttered no sound. At that moment the kaishaku, who, still crouching by his side, had been keenly watching his every movement, sprang to his feet, poised his sword for a second in the air; there was a flash, a heavy, ugly thud, a crashing fall; with one blow the head had been severed from the body.

              A dead silence followed, broken only by the hideous noise of the blood throbbing out of the inert heap…

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              But if you are right, and they are planning Tepcopuku and fukuseppuku, they should be told that only using an authentic wakizashi sword will give honor, a bomb wont suffice. Also, world leaders and G.E. board members should attend as witnesses so their true valor is recorded as they cut open their stomachs with their own hands and spill their blood in gurgling gushes. Follow the traditional ritual, its important! Someone please inform them