AP: Melted fuel may have “dropped even beyond” the bottom of Fukushima plant — ‘China Syndrome’ predicted by US gov’t analysis — IAEA Expert: Pools of corium beneath reactors are up to 2 stories high (VIDEO)

Published: March 30th, 2015 at 11:58 pm ET
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AP, Mar 27, 2015 (emphasis added): [It] was billed as a way to decipher where, exactly, the morass of nuclear fuel might sit at the bottom of reactors… But what went wrong, even in a simple demonstration for reporters… was a sobering reminder of the enormous challenges that lie ahead… a programming glitch could not be fixed in time for Friday’s demonstration… No one knows where the molten fuel debris lies, and in what shape or state. [TEPCO] has said it likely sank to the bottom of the plant. But the fuel could have dropped even beyond. Tadashi Yotsuyanagi, an official in charge of the muon project at Toshiba… acknowledged the technology will not be able to get the complete image toward the bottom of the reactor… David Ireland, a professor who heads the Nuclear Physics Group at the University of Glasgow, said muons may be the only way to probe inside atomic reactors. “There are not really any other noninvasive options that will allow inspection,” he said in an email.

The Japan Times published the AP report above, however one sentence was altered. Tepco has said it likely sank to the bottom of the plant. But the fuel could have dropped even beyond” vs. “But the fuel could possibly have escaped even beyond the containment facility to the outside environment.”

IAEA technical meeting Managing the Unexpected, Harri Tuomisto, Sr. Nuclear Safety Officer at Finland’s Fortum Power, 2012:

  • Part 4: “If the cooling is not successful, it means the corium melts through the vessel… When this massive amount of corium enters into the containment zone, there are very, very many different energetic consequences… Interaction of molten core and concrete starts… concrete is eroding, and this eroding of concrete, for a long time it was known as China Syndrome.”
  • Part 5: “The corium will be in 3 parts, there is a solid crust formation in the bottom of the pool, then there’s a pool of oxidic materials… The metals and oxides are not soluble with each other and the metals will be separated… which is bad news in the sense that the heat transfer to the vessel is much higher, and it’s much more difficult to guarantee the integrity of the [containment] vessel in that case.”
  • Part 6: “Molten corium on the containment floor, it’s eroding the concrete and going partially downward. Actually it will never go to China, because it also erodes sideways… The final size of the pooling maximum case is 10 to 15 meters in diameter, and 6-7 meters [20-23 ft or 2 stories] deep — or even deeper.”
  • Part 9: “There are quite many challenges… There are different energetic phenomenon… which can lead to different combustions… accelerating flames, or even detonations — which can cause a very high pressure in the containment and even break the containment… Then there’s this China Syndromeattack of containment liner by corium — which can also bypass containment.” (See US gov’t analysis: Fukushima containment breached due to “failure of the drywell liner by melt-attack)
  • Slides 3-4: If corium melts through the vessel, there are various energetic consequences caused by ejected high-temperature molten corium… Molten corium on the containment basemat initiates core-concrete interaction that releases aerosols and non-condensible gases to containment atmosphere and erodes the concrete (‘China syndrome‘)

Watch the IAEA presentation here

Published: March 30th, 2015 at 11:58 pm ET
By

261 comments

Related Posts

  1. IAEA Paper: Corium was not cooled in majority of tests using water injected from above, as done at Fukushima — Were studying how to stop molten core from melting through concrete December 26, 2013
  2. Wired: ‘Healthy debate’ about location of Fukushima corium — Lava can melt a foot of concrete per hour — Cooling with water may not stop corium flow April 18, 2013
  3. French Nuclear Experts: Did corium pierce steel liners of Fukushima reactors? How deep did it erode concrete? (VIDEO) February 3, 2013
  4. French nuclear specialists agree Fukushima “could still explode”, corium a threat — Reactors remain in meltdown says expert, molten lava could break through at any point March 11, 2012
  5. US Gov’t: Melted fuel most likely burned through containment at Fukushima reactors; We’re concerned about failures underground… “Where did it leak out? How did it leak out? We don’t know” — Expert: Corium may have flowed into reactor buildings, burned through floor (PHOTOS & AUDIO) May 28, 2015

261 comments to AP: Melted fuel may have “dropped even beyond” the bottom of Fukushima plant — ‘China Syndrome’ predicted by US gov’t analysis — IAEA Expert: Pools of corium beneath reactors are up to 2 stories high (VIDEO)

  • SS4U SS4U

    I think they know the fuel has escaped into the environment below the plant and if it has not reached the water table of other body of flowing water, it soon will since by their own lame admission, these is no way to contain or control this.

    An associate said to me today, " you mean they built all these nuclear plants but have no way to fix a serious problem ?"


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Fukushima HOT PARTICLE from Vaporized Core found 300 miles away (Marko Kaltofen)

    Published on Apr 3, 2014

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IJa_OEc610


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    • He puts it in a very understandable way. Shared it with some folks.


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    • PlowboyGrownUp

      This document/study shows particles found from units 1, 2, and 3. I think this is related to the video. http://fukushimaupdate.com/new-study-examines-u236-and-pu-isotopes-in-fukushima-fallout/


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      • HoTaters HoTaters

        Thank you for citing the study, Plowboy. Quote:

        "Marco Kaltofen, Civil Engineer & Ph.D. Candidate at Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI):
        ' The sample that we got came from Nagoya in Japan, its 460 kilometers from the accident site. That’s about 300 miles away. […]. The particle we examined was a mixture of fission products from a nuclear reactor and nuclear fuels. We looked at materials like tellurium, radium-226, we saw cesium-134, and -137, cobalt-60, and a whole zoo of isotopes that probably you’ll never hear about on CNN […] 80% by weight of this particle was made up of pure reactor core materials. That tells me that something that came directly from the accident, directly from the core can escape containment and travel a very, very significant distance. […] This material was in the peta-becquerel per kilogram range […] 4 followed by 19 zeroes — that many Bq/kg. That’s a very, very high number.' "

        Dr. Kaltofen was also taking samples in the U.S., west coast, from automobile air filters and other media where he could find hot particles. He was (a couple of years ago) working on another study. If memory serves, he worked with Arnie Gunderson and Fairewinds to produce a video in which he gives a lecture on his (Kaltofen's) findings. If I'm not mistaken, again, Kaltofen's work served as the basis for Gunderson's having reported people in near Seattle were likely inhaling 10-15 hot particles per day in the first weeks after the meltouts. (Not sure time…


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    • You see, Jebus; "vaporized core". That bothers me much moreso than so-called, "China Syndrome", which really doesn't go to China or even down to the center of the earth (as far as I can figure.)
      But, yes; vaporized core; that term ought to freak-out a LOT of folk. Somehow, the guys at Fuk-U-Shamelessly don't act like it's any biggie.?


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      • HoTaters HoTaters

        'Mornin', AnneBeck. Just re-read this article and realized the IAEA is still showing the fuel as being contained within the concrete structure of the containment.

        We all know this is impossible. The corium would have burned through the concrete in hours or a few days.

        A link to corium-concrete interactions, from Enformable:

        http://enformable.com/core-concrete-interaction-studies-molten-core-corium/

        Scribd has a lot of the articles published. The NRC studies show the corium will burn through the concrete at a rate of something like 2" per hour. We'd discussed it here, and the stats from the studies were cited here.

        Here's another study:

        http://www.scribd.com/doc/104308915/OECD-MCCI-Project2-D-Core-Concrete-Interaction-CCI-Tests

        What I want to know is how the seawater affected the breakdown of the concrete. If there were all those uranyl peroxide buckyballs being produced due to dumping seawater on the reactors, did this accelerate aerosolization of the corium and melted fuel? In the reactors, and the SFP's?

        Were there corrosional factors at work, accelerating the burning up of the basemats under the reactors?

        TEPCO is hiding something. We need to be good sleuths and figure out what it is.

        At any rate, we know from the mouths of NRC and DOE officials what occurred was the "worst case possible scenario."

        What does that mean in nuke-speak? In their private lexicon?


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Let's work on some better links for the rate of burnup of the concrete containment floor:

          From Argonne Labs:

          http://www.anl.gov/articles/simulating-core-melt-accidents-helps-improve-nuclear-reactor-safety

          We know sodium and peroxide compounds (some of them) are highly corrosive and oxidative materials. What (in some chemical reaction) would they do to weakened fuel cladding, corium at great heat, and the concrete mats beneath the reactors? Relevant question to ask?

          A basic study:

          http://www.ccnr.org/rasmussen.html

          An excerpt from the section, "Containment Vessel Melt Through"

          Based on the vaporization of the free water, initial spalling rates are calculated to be 15 to 30 feet per hour. As the concrete heats up it will give up its water of hydration at about 900 o F; then, at 1400 o F to 1600 o F, the limestone will decompose into CO2 [carbon dioxide] and CaO [calcium oxide]. It is expected that the water vapor and carbon dioxide would escape from the melt.

          As the products of concrete decomposition are absorbed and/or dissolved by the melt, the melt temperature will decrease until constituents of the mixture begin to precipitate. It is estimated that by the time the melt has penetrated through 1 1/2 feet of concrete, UO2 [uranium oxide] would begin to precipitate from the multicomponent mixture."


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            (cont.)

            "From this point on the progress of the melt through the concrete is controlled by the rate of decay-heat generation; i.e., the quantity of concrete penetrated is directly proportional to the energy available to decompose the concrete and raise the temperature of the products [of such decomposition] to the temperature of the melt….

            Hence the conclusion that at least some of the mass will remain in a fluid state for considerable time, with convection within the melt tending to maintain the melt temperature near the effective melting point of the mixture. It is recognized that as the size of the melt increases and the heat-generation rate per unit volume decreases due to dilution, solidification must eventually occur. Solidification is not, however, expected to take place prior to the penetration of the containment foundation mat."

            TEPCO and the IAEA are living in PR fantasy land and spreading lies. Trying to get the public to believe a "China syndrome" scenario has not occurred.

            Wow, missed that one reading last night. They are showing the concrete mat beneath the reactor being intact. Pure fantasy.


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Don't quote me on the 2" per hour figure from the NRC. Unable to find the study and a link at the moment. The figures (from studies) have been published in millimetres and inches per hour.

          If those who are interested wish to do it, they can search archives here and find articles where the meltouts were discussed. There were a lot of comments re: the rate of burn through the concrete containment.

          Some people here studied the Mark 1 reactor schematics for the Fukushima reactors and containments, read the studies, and showed us their calculations for the rate of burn-through. Again, if memory serves, that occurred in as little as a few days, to likely a few weeks at most. (But again, please do your own research and do the math!)

          More likely China syndrome and/or vaporized core and fuel pools with multiple fires, slow burns, possibly detonation originating the SFP #3, and even vaporization of the Reactor #3 core. IMO there was very little spent fuel left in SFP #3. Check the photos someone published here yesterday (from link to Enformable). The first picture at the top of the page pretty much says it all.

          So how can they clean up THAT mess? A cover on Unit #3 SFP? More fantasy? Show me the beef. Where's the beef?


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          One more possibly relevant question: did the presence of salts and peroxyl compounds contribute to the buildup of hyrdrogen, volatile aerosols inside the containment, and accelerate the process leading to explosions and detonations inside the "containment" (fantasy) structures?


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Or the Buckyball formation was a result of corium-interaction with seawater, more likely. But did their presence accelerate the process of melt-through and/or explosions, and detonations? Was it a process that traveled through the plant like a snowball rolling down a hill, growing in size and seriousness as it got more and more out of control?

          Oh, can't imagine what it must have been like to be working there, having so much trouble communicating with off-site managers (being talked down to by TEPCO and Keiretsu bean counters), government mixed messages and obfuscation, news blackout. And they worked in the dark, and knew they were in extreme peril. They were pretty much on their own. Had the bean counters and politicians not been trying to manage an engineering and physics issue, and had there been some real disaster plan in effect at the time of 3/11, would the outcome have been different?

          Well, it goes back to siting the plant on top of an ancient river, with parts of the plant below sea level. Someone here (PhilipUpNorth, forgive me 'cos I can't remember who you were) gave a link to schematics and a long article showing how an entire mountainside facing the sea (think steep cliffs) had to be excavated away to build the plant. It was built on top of unstable mud rock. Greed and stupdity trumps engineering and physics, public health and safety sanity. Oy vey, what did they expect? Was it GE, or was it TEPCO? Was it the DOE, NRC, the Japanese version of the NRC?


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Oy vey, what did they expect? Was it GE, or was it TEPCO? Was it the DOE, NRC, the Japanese version of the NRC?

            On whose shoulders should the ultimate responsibility lie? When all is lies, lies, lies, and everyone pointing the finger at someone else, or all follow Omerta, the Japanese or even international code of silence, who can say for sure?


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            • HoTaters HoTaters

              Sorry, folks, I'm on a rant. Time to go to work. Have a blessed day despite all. Wishing all here well. Keep on truckin' as we said in the wild 60's.


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              • HoTaters HoTaters

                Keep on Truckin' (comics) – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_on_Truckin'_(comics)
                Wikipedia
                "Keep on Truckin'" is a one-page comic by Robert Crumb. It was published in the first issue of Zap Comix in 1968. A visual riff on the lyrics of the Blind Boy Fuller …


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Oh, yeah, forgot. And the plant built on top of an ancient riverbed through which water still flows from the area hills and mountains, running right under the plant.

            Beyond stupid.


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        • Sorry, I'm just back now… Have been (finally) posting about Fukushima in my blog, today.
          Yes, I read this article (I get Enformable, too.) I did see that info about what the coria will do to concrete and how it will move down (and out.) That's why I don't think it will go very far down. But, that doesn't mean it's not terribly dangerous. While researching for one of my posts, I did read about what happens when the corium (or coria) hit groundwater, which seems to not be very far down, under Daiichi. Basically, it will be a huge explosion, and the irradiated vapor will blow out, everywhere. Considering the huge numbers we've seen (radiation), I do think it has happened, already.

          Yes, I wonder, too, what exactly the sea water has done to the, "containment", at all of FDNPP. (Oh, I don't think much at all is contained..) Certainly, salt-water isn't good for anything and may have been terrible. But, there are so many unknowns, I don't know how long it will be before we know much- if we ever know much.

          Yet, some dope just told me that they ARE stopping leaks at the reactor-piles. I wanted to laugh. Instead, I yelled at him (as much as one can yell, online.) That made me feel a bit better.. You should try it, sometime, on one of the nuke-derps.


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Greetings, AnneB, yes, I, too think about what will happen or has been happening (on a small scale?) when the hot coria hits groundwater. Phreatic explosions, a la molten corium (instead of hot lava). KA-BOOM!

            Nuckelchen posted some videos in 2013-2014 (dates?) showing what I think you are describing, AnneB. Apparent explosions, the plant being hidden behind black smoke and dark fumes, steam issuing out of what appear to be cracks in the ground. Am not sure under which reactor buildings, or near which ones Nuckie caught the steam venting. With the night time "light shows" he documented, it has been more strange than watching an extreme sci-fi movie. Like sci-fi on LSD.


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      • HoTaters HoTaters

        Hey, did you guys get that from the spalling study? BURNUP RATES OF 15 to 30 FEET PER HOUR, UNDER SOME CONDITIONS.

        Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.


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        • razzz razzz

          Daiichi was/is a real dilemma. At Chernobyl, the core could burn up then dump sand, lead, boron and anything you wanted on the melt while keeping any water away (besides what moisture is in concrete) then just let the melt cool down and throw a temporary cover over it for containment shielding then walk away.

          At Daiichi, the water table is unavoidable so the cores can't be left to burn up maybe to allow a temporary cover to be placed over them then walk away because the melts are making their way to an inexhaustible water source. Be it freshwater or seawater. Without containment/protection from water the melts are going to be active for who knows how long and eroding away at the same time. Certainly not high and dry.

          At Chernobyl, they even worry about rainwater accessing and carrying off radioactive sediment or materials into the surrounding environment.

          At Daiichi, it is the least of their worries for example, radioactivity from the roof of Unit 2 is washed off by rainwater into surface drains dumping into the Pacific outside of the harbor. What doesn't get washed away just radiates into the air from the roof and that is just one small area without containment.


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          • PhilipUpNorth

            Right, razzz. The entire Pacific Ocean is one big dying ecosystem.
            The damage so far will require a million years of evolution and repopulation to recover from.
            The damage grows worse and worse by the day.
            So incompetent to have failed to build an underground impermeable wall to enclose units1-4 in the first place, when the ocean had a small chance to recover.
            Now?
            Still not done.
            Still only begun.

            I buy nothing made in Japan. ;)


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      • Fukushima Coriums Melted Through The Concrete Base Mat Under Multiple Nuclear Reactors In 18 Hours, According To NRC Study – China Syndrome
        http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2014/06/corium-melts-through-concrete-base-mat.html


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  • :|

    Here's a simple explanation of what happens when a core hits ground water.

    China Syndrome. (clip 45 seconds)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBl-w4J0Xtk&list=PL89C3EBC75D1471F4&index=48


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Here's an example of the result of the great tohoku disaster, which just happens to include 3+ complete nuclear reactor melts, into the sea…

    "Idk why it was so empty. Hence the video"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9siRju_IOY

    Just mute it…


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  • Jebus Jebus

    The MOX one went further than two stories, although two stories does fit the description…

    But it went up…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYSsxdqgss0&feature=youtu.be

    It had plutonium MOX fuel in it…


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  • tinfoilhatbrian tinfoilhatbrian

    All i can say to these baffoons is "no shit Sherelock"! The corium have left the building for fucks sake! Geeez!


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  • razzz razzz

    Following the links and presentations by the heavy breather with a bad accent, he talks about a 'core catcher' in more modern nuclear power plant designs, to deal with any meltdowns. Like that is somehow the answer to Daiichi's failures. Then discusses melted fuel settling is layers (distilling) but fails to mention the effects of more plutonium from MOX fuel (6%? more Pu to begin with) in the mix. Wonder if that could be ripe for an uncontrolled chain reaction? Insanity trying to act rational.

    Then Arnie's pal stating that he can tell the difference between a hot particle emanating from a working reactor, versus say spent fuel, because short lived radioisotopes travel with hot particles whereas spent fuel would have different signature. They know the explosions originated from the working cores and not the fuel pools.

    Also, if they sample the uranium (and they do) before being used in fuel pellet/rod production, then they know history of the fuel all the way back to where it was mined from or the source of any plutonium. In other words if they take air samples and find radioactive particles, they can test and decipher which past nuke bomb testing the nuke particles came from or if they are natural or manmade, etc.


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    • AirSepTech AirSepTech

      Thanks razz, I never gave much thought on the metal 'sig'.

      I can tell you that is 100% true in other metals, gold & silver for sure.
      It is assayed at the mine, also sampled and documented. Those assay's are unique to the location of the ore, even to the different areas of a mine, the processing(types of flux/additives) when it is fired, a few other things as well. Gold/silver, before it is re-refined to 99.99%+, is traceable to its exact origin.

      Actually, all minerals, have a location 'sig' due to differing impurities. Once they are purified, a tracer of some sort can be added, if that is desired, to ID it.

      Now, where did those 'fragments of fuel' come from? ;)


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    • tinfoilhatbrian tinfoilhatbrian

      "Core catcher" That's a good one! Then what?


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      • razzz razzz

        The theory of a 'core catcher' is to control the melt and force it to spread out into a thin pancake like blob so cooling water and neutron absorbers can reach more surface area.

        At Daiichi, the melts just piled up being contained inside the pedestal walls after falling or being blown out of the reactor bottoms. That made it difficult if not impossible to get cooling water to a majority of the melted masses as the melts protected themselves by crusting over and just by being a thick blob with most of the interior of the mass not accessible to cooling water/seawater.

        As noted, the melts consist of different density layers of metals and materials as they settle out (distill) due to heat and plain old gravity with uranium and plutonium being heaviest and wanting to mass together. More than likely why chain reactions (criticalities) are still occurring to this day.

        I read that melted cores can moderate neutrons by themselves even without water but any water would certainly assist in that process. Probably why TEPCO is not gung ho on completing any damming of underground water so as to avoid any further neutron moderation when water builds up and surrounds the melts.

        Without containment, TEPCO can't control the melts environment by using neutron absorbers ex. boron because it would diluted and just leech out to sea not staying put in the areas around the melts.


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        • PhilipUpNorth

          Thank you razzz.
          You are a fount of knowledge. :)


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        • BanReactorsForever BanReactorsForever

          It's all about the ratio of surface area to mass. A sphere goes critical the easiest. Rods not so much . Once the rods catch fire/melt then the fuel pools at the reactor bottom and you create an unintentional giant dirty bomb; like Fukushima reactor #3 for example. All the reactors blew up. The default setting on a nuclear reactor is always "KILL". It takes great effort and lots of things going right in order to prevent the dirty bombs/cancer factories/nuke reactors from melting down. That's just he reality of these damn things. Once we concentrate that much fissile U235 or Pu it is inviting the Devil to come and destroy our world. Nuclear is only evil. Nothing good comes from fission; only death


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    • jec jec

      Might be good for WIPP to test those "particles" of PU they released to figure out WHAT nuclear test/facility/plant it came from..Just saying..Of course, since no 'high level' materials were in WIPP(sarcasm)… Semantic changes can not change the physical facts..PU is PU, and its high level radioactive material. Physical material signuature could help in a lot of situations. Of course, if Fukushima radiation from MOX was identified as well……


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  • tinfoilhatbrian tinfoilhatbrian

    Just guessing again here but "they" probably know exactly what is going on and where the corium are and all the press releases are pure bullshit with tidbits of "worse" news until the "final" official news is a bit late to do whatever it was we could have done game over..oh yeah that's part 10 in the IAEA's fancy little meeting and part 1…lie like a rug! And that was Sherlock..as in Holmes!


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  • HoTaters HoTaters

    Piles of melted fuel two stories high beneath the reactors. Well, no shite, Sherlock. Doh already. If it's even in one cohesive blob beneath each reactor.

    But at least it may be a scenario at least vaguely approaching reality.


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  • markww markww

    JAPAN AND TEPCO do not have any Idea where anything is except tell LIES TO THE WORLD and COVER IT UP


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  • i am guessing that the plant is probably so degraded below that the place is fixing to slide into the pacific… then they can wash their hands of it and get to work on the olympic buildings with that radioactive ash concrete they are so hot to use. sarcasm… or ???


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    • Ummm, yes, probably SK. Sliding. Whenever I'm looking at the emissions/smoke/fog plus the harbor currents and breakers shifting through weather changes and tide cycles, I can't help thinking of all the unknowns roiling and burbling in that nasty cauldron by the sea.

      So (dark thought) will Japan's eco bricks, conveniently made so as to recycle everything going into the incinerators, also have human DNA in them? <—said no ever 5 years ago.

      Whata world we now live in.


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    • That's what I expect to see, each time I look at that Fuku-1 camera footage. Sliding, into the sea..
      Then again, a little niggling part of my brain says, "that is the same footage they posted two years ago.."


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  • unincredulous unincredulous

    200 year wait. Who cares if it's China syndrome or not. Really. Soon they will start saying what a tremendous opportunity for study it is. And keep lying to prevent an evacuation from Tokyo. Until one day they wake up and they will be out of there so fast…


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  • curly

    Probably many here have seen PANDORA'S PROMISE WAS A LIE. If you haven't, there's a segment about what's currently happening near Chernobyl. If anyone has any doubts about; the outcome of a nuclear accident, the wonders of technology, faith in a loving God, or the notion that the present world order has got your back; don't watch a child, with arms and legs tied to a chair, receive a tonsillectomy without anesthetics in a world where we've made it possible to walk on the moon, put an electric wire to every house in Amerika, and never worry about filling our gas tanks. We have failed!


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  • PhilipUpNorth

    How large are the corium lava tubes?
    How large is the cirium blob?
    "10 to 15 meters in diameter, and 6-7 meters [20-23 ft or 2 stories] deep…"

    Why is it probable that the corium stayed in a blob, rather than branched out into an inverted tree-like shape?
    Temperature and density.
    The temperature within the corium may be 2,800C.
    Within the liquid corium, ablated concrete, and later mudrock, would be lighter atoms, and would circulate and float upwards, towards the top of the mass.
    Heavy metals, like uranium and cesium, would be heavier, and would settle to the bottom.
    The heat, driven by ongoing criticalities and decay heat, would consentrate at the middle of the corium mass, creating a funnel shape of corium and rock lava melt, lower and hotter towards the middle and higher and cooler at the sides.
    The corium lava would follow this funnel shape rather quickly downward and downward, maintaining its blob shape.

    Where is the corium, IAEA? ;)


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    • jec jec

      TEPCO is probably using the concept of the Chernobyl 'elephant foot' corium shape. That shape was from un-restricted pooling. The ground restricts, and likely the shape reflects melting points of that said ground. Could be spreading sideways, down into ground cracks (there are a lot of cracks open to the surface) and so on. The large ground crack on the sea side of Reactor 1, for example..could go down to Fukushima Hades. Has Mr. TEPCOman even LOOKED or drilled down thru the bottom of the crack??Seems a no brainer. Picture each reactor with the same potential. Ick.


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      • PhilipUpNorth

        Jec:
        Under the basemat are several feet of gravel fill, which was used to level the building site before construction.
        Under that is mudrock, with sandstone further below.
        "The melting point of sandstone is approximetly 1300.68754893C" according to Answers.com, depending on density.
        I assume mudrock, which has similar physical properties to sandstone, melts at a similar temperature.
        The corium, at 2,800C would make quick work of sandstone, and might even vaporise it.
        I have wondered if corium would follow cracks, fault lines, and rock layers.
        At 2,800C, I concluded, corium makes its own pathway, quickly melting away the mudrock and sandstone in its path.
        As for drilling, TEPCO did lots of drilling, even did some slant drilling under the reactors.
        The results of that drilling was never announced.
        Where are the damn cores, Tepco?
        The verticle holes were for groundwater sampling.
        TEPCO is always surprised and perplexed by how high these groundwater readings are.
        Wonder why? ;)


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    • Shaker1

      How large is the cirium blob?
      "10 to 15 meters in diameter, and 6-7 meters [20-23 ft or 2 stories] deep…"

      This would be minimum depth, correct? Averaging the estimate to a
      cylinder 12.5D and 6.5H, the exposed surface area would be 986m2 constantly exposed to water? And then x3? Hmmm…


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    • PhilipUpNorth;
      I think IAEA don't know where the coria are. I think this is because they really don't want to know. I think Tepco is relying on IAEA to tell them where the coria are. And, that ain't gonna happen.


      Report comment

  • PhilipUpNorth

    "Concentrate", not "consentrate". :)

    Also present in the corium would be lots of iron atoms, remains of the stainless steel reactor vessel, and the steel bottom of the containment vessel.
    The iron atoms, too, would float to the top of the heavier uranium and cesium atoms, together with their 1,900 daughter elements.
    In mudrock and sandstone, which are porous rocks, sand would melt and collapse into glass, creating walls of glass lining the corium lava tubes, left after the passage of the corium blob.

    Where, oh where, can they be? ;)

    How deep can the corium blob sink?
    What can stop it?
    Are corium lava tubes going to be hollow, or is there enough material in the mudrock and sandstove to form a plug, sealing off the corium blob, allowing the rogue nuclear reactors to "decommission themselves"?
    And why are the peaks in the level of Iodine-131 found in Tokyo sewage sludge getting higher and higher over time, even while the corium melts deeper and deeper into the Earth?

    Questions for later, when the nuclear scientists finally admit that the corium has left the reactor buildings altogether.


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  • PhilipUpNorth

    SS4U:
    The water table is very shallow under FDNPP.
    At some times of the year, the water table is above the level of the torus basement floors.
    The aquifer extends to a depth of 100' below groundlevel.
    So the corium has been immersed in water since melting out of the buildings.
    And the corium lava tubes are filled with water.
    Which, by the way, will do nothing at all to cool these 3 rogue nuckear reactors.


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  • PhilipUpNorth

    Tokyo sewage sludge has high levels of Iodine-131.
    Peak levels are getting higher and higher as time goes on.
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/09/iodine-131-in-sewage-sludge-amounts.html
    The half life of Iodine-131 is only 8 days.
    Since Iodine-131 is only created by nuclear fission, its presence indicates that the corium is still experiencing criticalities.
    Right now, even after 4 years.
    The presence of Iodine-131 in Tokyo sewage sludge, means that 35,000,000 people are drinking it, cooking with it, bathing in it, and pissing at least some of it out.
    Still, today, after 4 years.
    Iodine-131 causes thyroid cancer in human beings.

    (I have copies of this graph in a large envelope in my library, which I pass out to friends when the subject of Fukushima comes up. This one sheet of paper is all anyone needs to know about Fukushima, which is a growing threat to lots of people. Fukushima is still going on. This is not over, by a long shot.)


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    • PUN:
      I don't think half-life counts as far as FNPP is concerned, and this is because it hasn't stopped flowing (the radioactive particles) since it first blew. I mean, if this is a constant; that plumes (if we want to call 'em that) are repeatedly, moment to moment, being sent into the air…, then, doesn't that half-life clock re-start each and every moment?
      Or, am I misunderstanding this?


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Reporting measurements of radiation spewing into the air and carried by winds is needed.


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  • PhilipUpNorth

    Tokyo Sewage Sludge Iodine-131 Chart for reproduction:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dc0sz3lG5EE/VG9STIx4JAI/AAAAAAAADs0/NcEiXoxjDQQ/s1600/iodine%2Btokyo%2Bsewage%2B2014.GIF

    It would be better if this chart had the orginator's infirmation on it.
    I would love to ask the author of this graph to please keep it current by adding new readings as the months go by.
    Great work, whover you are! :)


    Report comment

  • jec jec

    Wonder if using dates from this chart we can map to ENENEWS webcam events..like fires/heavy smoke..etc. May 2014 was certainly active with smoke and fires (R3 area).


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    • PhilipUpNorth

      Jec,
      Had the same though myself.
      This work should definitely be done.
      Even if fires, smoke, and steam are not seen, certainly the graph maps the waxing and waning of criticalities in the 3 rogue nuclear reactors in the ground under FDNPP.


      Report comment

      • razzz razzz

        I would like to see an overlay of earthquake activity onto a chart of when radioactive releases are high from Daiichi.


        Report comment

      • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

        @PUN; I had been thinking along the same lines you've been posting in ALL of this thread/discussion Phillip,but who am I to give any opinion on such matters[?],so I haven't…until now & after you & a few others whose credibility & opinions on the issues far outweigh anything I'd have to say on the subject served to validate & justify my own concerns that are based on gut-instincts & the basic rules of physics & a few things I picked up in the Navy before they did me a favor by booting me out for reasons I would share in sickening detail if ever asked. But even before my ill-fated decision to enlist in the USN I have ALWAYS felt nauseous & uneasy at the sight of nuclear power plants even before TMI,then Chernobyl & finally,the "Kill-Shot",311-Fukushima served to prove my hunch that those NPP's that made me sick just looking at since I was a small child would be associated one way or another as the most likely sources/sites that would ruin the land,air,water and ALL LIFE dependent upon the natural resources the SOB's have contaminated with no plan to stop anytime soon!In late 2011-2012 as TEPGOV laid out their impossible plans which included ie;"we have to proceed carefully & avoid a single-misstep",I just KNEW it wasn't a matter of "if" they "misstep",but "when" & "how many times"[?]! How can anyone who has watched the "light shows" & steam/smoke events that always follows a period of strong,nearby EQ's "jostling & shifting" the remaining Shitium…


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        • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

          around NOT realize that it's related to the continuing evidence of recent or ongoing criticality events[?!] If the coriums have become elongated columns already 2 stories beneath the concrete,final boundaries of containment barriers,then it also explains recent TEPCO engineer's assessment that "the technology to deal with the situation does not exist,nor do they know if/how it could ever even be developed" and the "200 years" they quoted is probably as useless as the rest of TEPCO's comments,claims & findings even if it is as close to an admission of truth by them as we may ever get[?]-because WE,just like all living things intolerant to excessive,continuous,MAN-MADE radiation poisoning will be LONG GONE in 200 years! If not via the impacts of 311 & ALL of the other sources contributing to the rapidly deteriorating state of the natural world,then the other ugly side of the nuclear coin,the M.A.D. Doctrine and the inevitable use of nuclear weapons against civilian populations WILL see to our world's demise. Again,not "if",but "when"??!! I'm really curious as to TEPCO & Big Nukes & their kooky pukes explanation for finding Iodine-131 in the Tokyo populations shit??!! I don't know what bothers me more[?],the reality of the harmful impacts of nuclear as evidenced by the degraded & worsening status of fukushima or that those MANY who are responsible for it and the harm it cause[s-d] getting away with it scot-free??!! Whatever…. my condolences,best wishes & love to…


          Report comment

          • Johnny Blade Johnny Blade

            ALL who have,will or have already succumbed to health problems that 311 has either caused or contributed to!! I wish my own references to "me","my" & "I" didn't make it look like I'm pissed-off & ranting on behalf of my own pitiful self & my family's woes! Nothing could be further from the truth!! And my offer to go to Fukushima to work on the festering shithole & portal to Hell stands too! At least I could do something,ANYTHING to try to help,if just to keep an eye on the "valves",etc. that either fail,are sabotaged or intentionally discharging more Shitium into the environment that's rapidly becoming inhospitable to people & critters FAR outside of Japan despite claims that the danger zone is somehow limited to the immediate area surrounding the disaster!! If I caught some spiteful,vindictive creep intentionally committing any acts that would worsen the situation,including my wife & ALL others trying to recover from their post-311 cancers,I'd smash to a pulp & toss 'em into the nearest SFP or flimsy,single-walled tank and never lose a bit of sleep over it either!! :| TakeCare Y'ALL!


            Report comment

            • bowling

              i am so damn sick today i can hardly stand it johnny from a migraine. i have had these gd things since i was 6 yo and i got so sick. it sucks lot of genxers late baby boomers got screwed the worse by the nuking of america but the millenials are haven a shitty time too.


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            • HoTaters HoTaters

              Johnny, two family members of mine are dying or possibly in dire threat of great harm from cancers. One in Washington state, the other (dying of metastasized lung cancer found in November, 2013, already had a brain tumor when found at Stage 4). The one dying now was in Hawaii, likely enjoying her retirement outdoors when the shitium went wafting by.

              My father is now likely dying soon of a severe form of dementia. He and my mother went downhill very rapidly after 3/11. Mom died last year of heart failure. Dad's dementia went nuts within three to four months after 3/11. Now he is just a shell of his former self. I'm devastated. You're not alone, friend, in your anxiety over your loved ones.

              My young cousin in WA state has a glioma. Trying to figure out whether or not she should have a temporal lobe biopsy, which, in and of itself, carries great risk of permanent damage.

              I've been grieving a lot over all of this, for the past couple of months ….


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    • Jebus Jebus

      Even the Moon affects three lost coriums, by the sea.

      Twice a day…


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  • Checkmate

    They say it is fully revealed that the US Sock Market has always been fixed. Now ask yourself this- why is Japan's Stock Market so high and their Yen currency so valuable in relationship to other currencies while the country is radioactively destroyed and slowly sinking into oblivion. Could Japan's market and currency also be fixed???


    Report comment

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      Of course it is..it's all fixed and a let's kill the planet money scam perpetrated on all of us.

      More precious..we need more precious. :(

      These people call the death of this/our only planet..progress! :)


      Report comment

      • Pete

        The Japanese gov has in theory taken over TEPCO, and per FD, has spent 74 billion US dollars thus far on the "cleanup".
        The gov forced all the big Japanese banks to loan TEPCO billions, which they will never get back, but Japan is also the second largest holder of US Treasury T-Bills.
        That means if they let on that their country is bankrupt, the US economy, and then the world economy, goes down with it. I'm kind of torn about that, I kind of want to just say uck it, let the truth out and let the cards fall where they will. But then if the world economy crashes too hard, then we have to worry about what will happen to the other 437, broke people don't care about radionuclides or backup power.
        Also it looks like they are gonna reach an agreement with Iran, which means they will have the bomb in a couple years, and a couple more NPP's to make fuel, I mean Electricity.
        All in all, I say meh, what could go wrong??


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    • Checkmate..
      That darned sock-market!
      That got me in stitches.


      Report comment

  • Checkmate

    Kinda like "SOCK-IT TO YA!!!"….lol…lol.


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  • Fukushima Day 1481. Get the Rad Word Out, People!

    Fukushima Business Cards 4 U! And everyone else, too!
    http://tinyurl.com/fukushimabusinesscard4u

    These nifty cards are easy to print, pass out and leave about.

    And give Dana D on the coast of B.C. a boost
    http://www.youtube.com/user/BeautifulGirlByDana

    P.S. A refresher course:

    Fukushima Basic Breakdown
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0B5EAspQn4

    Fukushima Reactors #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6l2YxxQZz4


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  • earthsmith earthsmith

    As PUN and others have stated and shown numerous times in the past the constant presence of iodine-131 really is the smoking gun for non containment.
    So it is just the beginning and quite possibly the end all in one.
    It has always been my thought that they are just waiting for it to crumble.
    But I could very well be mislead and they are so full of themselves that this is like a new baby to them and they want to watch it grow all the while thinking they have some sort of handle and timetable to work with.
    Either way spells doom. Some know and others are kept in check.


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    • bf9 bf9

      And also continued fission. I131 levels dissipate after fission ceases…the fact that levels continue to go UP is indeed a true smoking gun.

      At this point, I don't think there's much we can do. I have a feeling those buildings are way, way hotter than Chernobyl for example and it might have reached the point a while ago where people just drop even spending two minutes in there.


      Report comment

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "Actually it will never go to China, because it also erodes sideways".

    Towards the mountains? up and down the coast line? towards the sea?


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    If it's 'eroding' in all directions, how can there be a pooling maximum?


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    • Shaker1

      Heart, I would bet the migration has a bias downhill. We also know the water definitely has that bias, so I'd bet on the sea as the ultimate destination in particulates if nothing else.


      Report comment

      • bf9 bf9

        Gravity and path of least resistance are the two main factors. Doesn't mean it can't burn through shit sideways though.


        Report comment

        • PhilipUpNorth

          Bf9,
          Good thinking.
          Corium follows the path of least resistance, for sure.


          Report comment

          • PhilipUpNorth

            Let's consider the crust that surrounds the sides and top of the corium blob.
            (I do not believe a crust also forms on the bottom of the corium blob.
            This is a very active region where concrete/steel/rock is being melted and/or vaporized.)
            This crust from the sides and top of the corium plug apparently leaches into water like crazy.
            The amount of radioactive material leaching into groundwater from the corium, then making it into the sea, is confounding the expctations of the scientists.
            It is from the crust that the majority of water-borne nuclides are leaching.
            And it is from criticalities within the heart of the corium blob that airborn radiation, such as Iodine-131 is being created, carried as vapor and steam to the surface…
            …to end up in the thyroid glands of those 35,000,000 doomed residents of Tokyo. ;)


            Report comment

            • PhilipUpNorth

              Let's consider this continuous increase in the intensity and duration of criticalities at Fukushima, which we are seeing so clearly over time in Bobby1's graph of Iodine-131 in Tokyo Sewage Sludge, linked in my post above.
              Clearly, wherever the corium is, the criticalities within the corium are getting worse and worse, as time goes on.
              I suppose this is to be expected when you have 3 rogue nuclear reactors fissioning on and on without control rods, cooling, or containment.
              What we see on the graph is more and more intense fission going on in the corium.

              This is my fear:

              Without containment, and there is no legitimate effort at containment going on, if the criticalities continue to increase in intensity and duration, at some point, all the workers either die or are driven away from the ruins.
              (The Frozen Wall does not count, since it will never freeze due to the high flow rate of the
              underground river under Fukushima, plus the heat of the underground fissioning corium.)
              Without workers, there is no impermeable wall, no diversion of groundwater away from the underground corium, no cooling for spent fuel, and no decommissioning of Fukushima.

              Japan, your time to come to grips and do anything about Fukushima may be running out.
              Shake a leg.
              Time is short.
              Do something! ;)


              Report comment

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          bf9, agreed. The corium is extremely dense material, and it will follow gravity and the path of least resistance, as you stated.


          Report comment

  • dosdos dosdos

    I see the corium in the red and white striped shirt! No wait, that's Waldo.


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  • I think they can find the coria without muons.
    Why don't they just make a fifty-foot piece of photographic film and set it up outside of the reactor buildings for a few days? Shield it on the outside with lead.. I mean, if they think they can get that close to these hellholes; why not try that? The corium, per reactor core, should basically take its own xrays, right?
    That should give them some idea.
    And it's a lot cheaper than robots that die after fifteen minutes of work.


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  • melting mermaid melting mermaid

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32119463
    So much lost and wasted and in the end it was all unnecessary. We never needed nuclear. And we don't need it now. It was always about killing. Period.


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  • Marushka Marushka

    EJECTED Corium… No power, no cooling, no containment. The science of containment failure plus the visual confirmation that the units were releasing radiation, the damage to the nuclear plants irreparable, and the massively high radiation readings, from the US NRC FOIA documents, confirm ex-vessel – release of nuclear fuel from Fukushima Daiichi. Verified by USA Air Force, Department of Energy flying over the area, spikes in massive radiation readings at Fukushima Daiichi site and US Navy Radiation Teams from the USS Reagan off the coast, Yokosuka Naval base South of Tokyo and US Embassy in Tokyo. and the French saying that the situation was being hidden and down-played. Their science also verifies the failure of all three reactors and spent fuel pools.

    "Finally, if the molten material of the core cannot cool due to the loss of geometric and failure of the cooling systems, the wall of the reactor vessel will fail. If at that time the pressure in the reactor coolant system is low, the corium will flow down the cavity of the container. If the pressure is high, the corium is violently eject and dispersed."

    see also 3.1.2 Ex-Vessel Phenomena

    https://www.oecd-nea.org/nsd/docs/1997/csni-r1997-11.pdf


    Report comment

    • melting mermaid melting mermaid

      Not to mention, verified by their labrats on the ussreagan.


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      • melting mermaid melting mermaid

        I amm starting to wonder that we're not all part of some giant scientific experiment in Genetics or eugenics or weapons testing or some kind of cosmic anthropology, like how long would we last after say the bullet, the bomb, splitting the atom, for some alien species, maybe a bet between some godslike creatures for like a dollar like that movie, Trading Places and we're like ants to them? And we live like days compared to them. But I'm a bit unhinged of late…ignore me… I like said like like a hundred times…Lord have mercy…. Lord have mercy on us all.


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Time to outlaw all Nuclear Power on this planet via International Law! :)


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  • Note:
    Military helicopter flying low in our city today. *Port of Tacoma.
    Same style used in 2012 during the radiation / scanning. Thought it was note worthy, being its flying towards the coast / and away from the bases. While it was hovering above the waterfront all day.


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  • GOM GOM

    Muon scans show no fuel in R1. So..what does "not able to get complete image" mean?
    Good images here: http://chat.simplyinfo.org/


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    • GOM GOM

      Find same images @ Bobby1s Blog

      WELL WELL WELL…I CAN ACCESS THAT SITE ON MY IPHONE BUT LINK GOES TO SOME SIGN ON SHIT WHEN I TRY TO ACCESS IT ON ENE..


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      • HoTaters HoTaters

        GOM, make sure you have anti-hijacking software and settings on your browser. Delete all your browser history regularly, don't allow toolbars to be installed on your browser. Run scans regularly.

        Log on as a non-Admin user when you surf the web.

        Try to cloak your activities. Check your browser settings and make sure you delete cookies regularly.

        Browser hijacking suspected. Be careful surfing out there.


        Report comment

  • Cooter Cooter

    It is now 3 minutes to midnight on the Doomsday Clock.

    article:
    "the Doomsday Clock was moved forward two minutes in January to 11:57 p.m. It’s the closest the clock has been to midnight since the height of the Cold War in 1984."

    "Global climate change and the nuclear weapons industry were listed as the primary threats, but the Bulletin’s analysis also cited “the leadership failure on nuclear power.”

    http://ecowatch.com/2015/03/24/doomsday-clock-diablo-canyon/?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=c255420aaf-Top_News_3_29_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-c255420aaf-85874029

    Maybe MetalHead, he,she,it would like to comment on how we get out of this nuclear &#@%#! mess and move the hands of doom back?

    I didn't think so. Nuclear is a rabbit hole with only one way in and no way out. Go ask Alice, I think she knows.


    Report comment

  • humptydumpty humptydumpty

    Sneaky, unconscionable IAEA tactics: Slowly dribble bits of information about the whole mess they've known about since early on, underplaying the severity at each stage while appearing long term to have given an honest assessment. Write it as technically obscure and confusing as possible, using the word "containment" many times with nice graphic cartoons. Avoid using the terms 'explosion' and 'blew up' and 'contamination'. Emphasize the extreme difficulty of doing anything to fix the problems because that would have been 'too expensive' but they have things under control. Don't forget to mention the 'decommissioning' that is underway but never mention the consequences of ETERNAL danger to and destruction of life. What a bunch of fucking criminal liars.


    Report comment

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    These are the people that write the laws for you/me/us..not them. :(

    They are above any commoner manmade laws..


    Report comment

  • jackassrig

    TEPCO was negligent and incompetent before, during, and after 311.

    TEPCO was warned that a 9.0 + EQ was possible before 311.

    TEPCO did not in spite of the warnings failed to assess the critical piping systems and support systems to the new earthquake risk. Critical piping is piping that must stay functional during an upset. Loss of piping and large coolant pumps would doom this plant.

    TEPCO failed reactors did not have a fail-safe redundant cooling water system that could be launched if an earthquake 9.0 + occurred. Both the high side and low side of the condensers needed protection. This would have been pennies on the dollar compared to the human and environmental cost of this tragedy.

    TEPCO containment system is a joke. The gasket joint at the top will part with small pressures. This is a design flaw. This is the way gasket joints operate-see ASME Section VIII Div 1. A bolted joint cannot be made better so GE, Hitachi, and TEPCO knew the containment would not contain. Design of a gasket joint was in place long before nuclear power.

    TEPCO knew the emergency generators could be flooded if a tsunami breached the sea wall.

    TEPCO emergency generators were all, except one, water cooled. If cooling water were lost, the diesels would shut down on high water temperature. Transfer of diesel fuel to the diesels was probably interrupted due to the electrical failure. The diesels may have stopped due to lack of fuel. What happened to Fukushima’s HAZOP.


    Report comment

  • jackassrig

    cont.
    TEPCO dumped tens of thousands of gallons of seawater into the reactors. Seawater is in
    itself highly corrosive but the seawater quickly turned to brine an extremely corrosive solution. The salt caked the passageways where the water should circulate exacerbating the meltdown.

    TEPCO, GE, and Hitachi knew the zirconium would reach its temperature limit of about 800 deg F. Pins are designed for 2000 degF a code bust. After approximately 800 deg F, the zirconium would fail. This would happen even if the zirconium didn’t react with water (this is another issue). The temperature limits of zirconium can be found in all the codes. TEPCO, GE, and Hitachi are without excuse.

    TEPCO knew the containment vessel could not withstand corium at 3000 deg. C concrete also has a design temperature limit.

    TEPCO knew that if the RPV relief valves blew, the containment vessel could not hold the pressure due to the gasket joint at the top. I’m not sure if these valves are manual or operated from the control room. If an electrical failure occurred, the RPV could have been over pressurized and failed. Safety valve at bottom could not be opened because pressure from RPV.


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  • jackassrig

    cont.
    TEPCO knew the RPV material-steel-had a design limit of about 800 deg F and would fail during a meltdown. These limits are well established.

    TEPCO failed to provide a pier for a ship or barge in case of such an emergency. This could be used to offload concrete and sand or load contaminated water. Poor ingress and egress to the plant.

    TEPCO apparently relies on the local fire department for emergencies.

    TEPCO did not account for radiation embittlement of all structural material. TEPCO should have never allowed these plants to run past their intended life. The Russians knew about this problem years ago and heat treat the RPV to soften the steel.

    TEPCO relied on the NRC. Shame on them.

    TEPCO connected two of their plants to one vent stack. Emergency in one could boil over into the other.

    Plant too dense. Explosion caused more damage due to close proximity of buildings


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  • unincredulous unincredulous

    http://www.antipodr.com/

    China syndrome, if the cores somehow go straight through to the opposite side of the should contaminate the aquifers of South America before punching through to south Atlantic Ocean.

    George W. Bush's "precious end of days bottled water" aquifer.

    Maybe him and the Bin Fraudins will take an interest now


    Report comment

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    I can't believe people would allow a nuclear plant or a major chemical risk anywhere near the great lakes. Well, actually I do.

    Most times I'm just a mild-mannered blogger. But when the SHTF I become UNINCREDULOUS!!! Faster than a Ford Pinto. More powerful than a dustbuster. I can leap giant possums in a single bound. And most of all, nothing surprises me anymore. Gee these humans are stupid. Thank god for my fortress of solitude. Sure wish I had some Lortabs. Brain pain, doc. Can't imagine why.


    Report comment

  • GOM GOM

    Flame Wars: Internet comment threads.
    This addictive form of vitriolic back and forth should be avoided. It damages society and mental health. These days, comments are aggressive without resolving anything. At the end you can't possibly feel like anybody heard you. Having a strong emotional experience that doesn't resolve itself in any healthy way can't be a good thing.
    A perfect storm of factors come together to provoke rudeness and aggression in comments sections. Commenters are virtually anonymous, and therefore unaccountable for their rudeness. Also, people tend to antagonize distant abstractions. It's easier to be nastier in writing.
    Because comment-sections don't happen in real time, commenters can write lengthy monologues which tend to entrench them in extreme viewpoints that are usually reserved for movies.
    Comment threads give a feeling of accomplishment, albeit a false one. Armchair activism is enticing but the furher away you get from face-to-face dialogue the harder it gets to communicate in person. Most comments online require lengthy discussion and compromise. The back and forth negotiation of conversation with someone you dont agree with requires skill, and this skill is languishing, in members of the public and our leaders..
    So, with the world ending, might this be a good time for a little self-reflection..?


    Report comment

    • earthsmith earthsmith

      Hi GOM, each and every day is a great day for reflection. People have/are being compartmentalized and divided and I have found they are just as combative in person. I feel this is because they have been conditioned to have to apply religion or politics to their beliefs/opinions.
      Not to mention the effects of the ionizing radiation filtering through the bodies own magnetic field and shredding the chemical bonds of life. But they knew this so what to do now…
      Lately through reflection I keep coming back to one solution…removal, but that would require an awakening and the media has that covered. smash the t.v.s'


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      • GOM GOM

        Earth
        "Ionizing radiation filtering through the bodies own magnetic field", that is just brilliant! I hadn't thought of that. That would explain a lot. I will dig into it. I do know that humans are losing conduction with the Earth and that affects health, stress..Dr. Mercola has a good vid and theories on this: How Does Grounding and Earthing Impact Your Health.
        I agree that removal would do it, cause a civil war. lol.


        Report comment

    • Metalbeard Metalbeard

      Be the one in a hundred posters that espouses a differing opinion and watch the collective hostility descend on you as I have been the target of vicious character smears and nasty pejoratives.


      Report comment

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        No one has descended on you. They simply responded to your many assertions.

        You are not releasing photons all over the world.

        You are releasing mutagenic poisons and that has already been proven by the medical community.

        Why do you struggle with such reality?

        You can not win this argument, yet you carry on ..why?


        Report comment

        • Metalbeard Metalbeard

          Just read some of the pejoritives. I've been called Asshat, meatball, shill, troll…just for pointing illogic and false conclusions and bias.


          Report comment

          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            Why do you seem to have a problem with any supposed pejoratives being used and/but have no problem with the Largest Nuclear Industrial Accident to ever happen on this planet we call Earth?

            Can you not understand the breath and damage of what this Nuclear Industry just did to this our only planet?

            Do you think those are photons flying out of Fukushima's meltdowns and that are now racing across the Pacific Ocean spreading sunshine?

            You need to grasp what really happened and what will continue to happen for what your own Nuclear experts have claimed will be a minimum of 200 years of continual ecosystem and environmental damage to/for all biological systems present. :(

            What do you not understand?


            Report comment

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Whoa! It's SOCREF again.


            Report comment

            • Sam Sam

              He probably never left..working under
              aliases. Bowling diagnosed his ills.
              He has a fixation to destroy Stock's work.
              Nothing really new. He self disclosed
              info. in latest alias as Metalbeard that
              definitively places him as Socref out of
              Oakridge Labs. No more need be said.
              Go back to your work Socref keeping the
              nuclear workers as safe as possible
              from in such death dealing environments.
              You are truly part of the problem and
              no way part of any solutions to end
              Nuclear. Your idea to burn high level
              nuclear waste in reprocessing plants
              leads to even more waste. Bat Shit
              Crazy. Closed loop madness.


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            • GOM GOM

              I'm not getting involved but Socref is the name I couldn't remember.


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  • bowling

    I agree GOM self reflection has helped me sort a lot of things out. It always does. Stock and the doc and freeby , teri, on and on are real go getters. making a difference. Im pretty sure anne and joy and.angela did some hardcore activism like a lot of the people who did non violent protsts sponsored by the qakers wasserman caldicott others in the 70s and 80s. same with nedfromvermont. that clamershell group in maine is one of the oldest. The sierra club in utah is very radical and very antinuc. t


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  • bowling

    There is a new group in portland will have to find link. Edit

    Groups include:

    Abalone Alliance [4]
    Alliance for Nuclear Accountability[5]
    Alliance for Nuclear Responsibility[6][7][8]
    Arms Control Association.[9][10]
    Beyond Nuclear
    Citizens Energy Council
    Cactus Alliance (in Utah)[11]
    Catfish Alliance (in Alabama)[11]
    Citizen's Action for Safe Energy
    Citizen's Committee for Protection of the Environment[12]
    Clamshell Alliance[13]
    Coalition for Nuclear Power Postponement
    Committee for a Nuclear Free Island
    Committee for a Nuclear Overkill Moratorium[14]
    Committee for Nuclear Responsibility[15][16]
    Concerned Citizens Against the Bailly Nuclear Site
    Corporate Accountability International[17]
    Council for a Livable World[18]
    Crabshell Alliance (in Seattle)[11]
    Critical Mass[19][20][21]
    Don't Make a Wave Committee
    Economists for Peace and Security [22][23][24]
    Environmental Coalition on Nuclear Power[12]
    Federation of American Scientists[17]
    Friends of the Earth[25][26]
    Heart of America Northwest[17]
    Greenpeace[27]
    Institute for Energy and Environmental Research[28][29]
    Lawyers' Committee on Nuclear Policy
    Maryland Public Interest Research Group[30]
    Mothers for Peace[31][32][33]
    Musicians United for Safe Energy[34][35][36]
    North Anna Environmental Coalition[12]
    Nevada Desert Experience[37]
    New England Coalition[38][39][40][41][42]
    Nuclear Age Peace Foundation[43]
    Nuclear Control Institute[44]
    Nuclear Disarmament…


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  • bowling

    i had a lot of friends relatives who went to the nonviolent protests at yucca mountain in ,70s and 80s. there are people here directly involved with wipp, were directly involved with san onofre. there are.lots who want diablo canyon shut down


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    • GOM GOM

      Bowling
      How much time do we have before protests, groups as listed, sites like this, prepper sites, ect..are viewed as 'extreme'. Our own Veterans are seen as a threat.
      We are on the cusp of a huge change. Some can actually feel it. For instance, I feel like the Internet is on borrowed time and that Fuku was the catalyst [or the excuse]. Can't have folks seeing and talking about anything that might kill them en masse now can we? [vids of cops now illegal right?] About your peeps that went to Yucca..probably on a no-fly list now.
      Self-reflection opens lots of doors, some we wish had stayed locked..


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      • bowling

        actually gom none people i knew are on no fly lists. mormon bishops from st george and nevada. now successful politicians, people who run compter companies, people who have moved ot of us. caldicott wasserman are way more activist and not on no fly lists. there were a few quakers in the midwest who got messed with for their anti iraq stance by george w bushs goons so i understand all the veterans and preppers and everyone elses concerns.


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    • Metalbeard Metalbeard

      And still no political solution. How's that for progress. At some time we will want to move forward and have a workable strategy for used fuel. We can't sustain gripes and rants. The combination of destroying long lived isotopes and safekeeping short lived isotopes seems to be gaining traction.


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  • bowling

    I remember when Three mile island happened and the that movieChina syndrome came out. i read the college paper in 1980 that had a big expose on hanford and rocky mountain flats. It was just like now. Most were very skeptical that vitrification could work and it has not. Same shit a different day. NOW WE have 4effing china syndromes the pacific is dying. They beat the tipping point in the early 80s but people are pretty damned mad now.


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    • GOM GOM

      Bowling
      Nevada Desert Experience. They will never stop testing but kudos to those people trying. Here's something interesting. A personal horror trip down memory lane courtesy of NTS.
      I lived in St. George, Ut., which borders Arizona, which borders Nevada. The Virgin River Gorge runs 11 miles between Ut amd Az, and is the start of the Grand Canyon. This was going to be my winter home after leaving SLC. Within a week of being there I started hemorrhaging ending up hospitalized for 5 days, "bleeding of unknown origin". Yeah right. Then my 11 yr old daughter started having issues. We left ASAP after being told this:
      I met up with a local Native American woman who told me that the Canyons act like "funnels". She explained that people and animals get sick or die off when they test, even underground. Being naive I thought she meant in the past. Well, she got pissed and said that it happens all the time. This was 8 years ago. I developed uterine tumors.
      Anyway, these groups shed some light, and that is my story. Nuclear will kill every living thing, and eventually Earth will be Mars..


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      • bowling

        needless to say gom most of the land in the western us is owned by the us government. it is like one big tennessee valley authority nuketard heaven. many kids i knew had dads who were engineers scientists like my folks who went from los alamose to places like st george to nevada to hanford to idaho. same in california. frank zappas dad was a government chemist who made chemical warfare. he was moved all over socal as a child and ended up by santa susana. he had severe sinus problems as a child so his wise doctor put radium pellets in his sinuses. frank.zapa developed metastatic prostate cancer at 45 and died at age 53. quite young. he never trusted the govt. i am sorry about your afflictions as i have been there.


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        • GOM GOM

          bowling
          I've heard stories about John Wayne demanding to film in these areas against the wishes of movie makers..he died of cancer, don't know about too many others but some crew died as well.
          We are all dying out. Nobody notices. But soon, it will be like "hey, where is everybody"? Too many will be sick or dying at once. It will one day overwhelm the system.
          I hope to be in Ireland by then. Surrounded by my true love, green grass, trees, and lots of rain. May I die 'three-sheets-to-the-wind in a Dublin bar.
          Thanks for being you Bowling..


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  • Jebus Jebus

    This should be interesting to compare to, as there are numbers galore, from every corner of the globe, and Fukushima "official" numbers too…

    March 31, 2015

    TEPCO vows to release ‘all Fukushima radiation data’

    The nuclear operator of Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has announced that it plans to disclose all data on radiation levels recorded at the site in response to criticism of lack of transparency following the catastrophe.

    http://rt.com/news/245461-tepco-fukushima-radiation-data/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Numbers are where errors are made…


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