Man Films Area Near Giant Sinkhole: Homeland Security & Emergency Preparedness on scene — “You can see some bubbling” from road (VIDEO)

Published: December 1st, 2012 at 12:54 pm ET
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Title: Homeland Security Monitoring the Louisiana Sinkhole Area at Bayou Corne
Source: Charles Walton
Date Filmed: November 30, 2012
h/t Louisiana Sinkhole Bugle

At 1:45 in

Bayou Corne. You can see some bubbling going on out there right now.

At 2:30 in

Also thought that it’s very interesting that Homeland Security is out here monitoring this.

Watch the video here

Published: December 1st, 2012 at 12:54 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
317 comments

Related Posts

  1. ABC: Louisiana Gov. declares emergency, allows Homeland Security to assist — Spokeswoman: “This is extremely serious” — Report: Multiple caverns have radioactive materials August 10, 2012
  2. TV: Leaking gas is building up in aquifer near giant sinkhole — Bubbling has multiplied significantly since first discovered (VIDEO) January 12, 2013
  3. Local Homeland Security Director: Officials concerned cap of giant Napoleonville Dome may ‘shift’ and release butane from cavern August 15, 2012
  4. State: “Potential danger to human life” due to gas pressures in area of giant sinkhole — Emergency directive issued on weekend — Texas Brine fined $100,000 December 1, 2012
  5. Watch: Methane bubbling up in residents yard near giant sinkhole — “I can actually hear the bubbling” (VIDEO) January 18, 2013

317 comments to Man Films Area Near Giant Sinkhole: Homeland Security & Emergency Preparedness on scene — “You can see some bubbling” from road (VIDEO)

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    I have a new hypothesis of what has happened at Bayou Corne. I believe that some of the butane gas storage caverns have failed due to pressures put on the caverns from underground external sources. I also believe that this happened around the time that the bubbles(bubbles are the escaping gas) started coming up in the surrounding bayous several months ago before the sinkhole happened. With the amount of gasses that these caverns store it simply makes sence. This assuredly is a byproduct of the BP oil disaster blow out. I also believe that the sinkhole was also caused by this underground gas escape creating new voids as it travels and the gasses escape its containment weakining structural integrity of all formations it encounters. These gasses are also passing through underground natural oil pockets like the big hum and underground aquafers. As these gasses travel further along the existing and forming cracks they are weaking the area. The expanding sinkhole keeps making the escaping gasses go further underground following the least path of resistance(sometimes straight up into and through the shallow waters of the bayous) creating further weak spots therefore enlarging the sinkhole area at the same time. The waters in these bayous seem to be higher that usual in many areas which may be caused ny the escaping gasses under them hence creating negative runoff therefore filling the sinkhole as it grows.The more the sinkhole grows the further these gasses have to travel to escape.


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    • Thad

      Gee you don't know anything about the geology of southern Louisiana and offshore –do you? BP's MC-252 is 140 miles away–
      Do you have technical training or experience to back up these claims or did you pull out of your hat–


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      • Zombie_Planet

        It appears that timemachine has been consuming too many space potatoes without proper technical background resources.

        Or maybe the time machine has an electrical short in the wiring.

        Notice the lack of creditable documented proof for the hypothesis.

        I also noticed that the barrage was wrapped up in a single paragraph. The sign of a knowledgeable educated background, I think not.


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        • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

          Hey ZOMBIEPLANET – what PART of HYPOTHESIS did you not fuking understand. I do not appreciate your insults. You can kiss my ass. Mabey you can hear me now!


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          • A hypothesis is just that. He says so in the very first sentence.

            A theory is a theory. An observation is an observation and in my opinion that's okay. Lateral thinking should be encouraged.

            People can be guided or informed of information, but calling people names or speaking in a condescending manner is childish. Especially when it's clearly not been stated as fact.

            Anyone can always say they disagree and why, there's nothing wrong with that.

            Some people 'think' in general terms others want specifics. Generally speaking, anyway.


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            • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

              Thanks ChasAha – I appreciate your honesty.


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            • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

              As we had discussed many times here before – the BP Oil spill explosion, the newest production platform explosion, and the list of fresh oil slicks that have occured off the shores of southern louisianna, and this sinkhole fiasco all happened since the BP explosion and coincidently ALL line up as the crow flies from the offshore underwater salt domes which is where the BP explosion happened so there is a definate possibility that they are connected is all Im saying in regards to my previous contested comments that the two were no way possibly connected.


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              • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

                And yes I have been around the oilfield all my life, dad is a geologist / geophysist and I use to broker oil field drilling and production equipment in the 80s. Anyone who claims to know everything about everything is useless to me.


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                • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

                  Last comment – Its the fracking industry that is new technology and it has become abvious to me that this technology needs to be re-examined and put on hold. Every fracking site that I have researched has negative environmental impacts and causing major damage to close by water aquifers and waterways. Besides all the other negative impacts being discussed. We are fracking the poor planet to peices. There at minimum needs to be a moritorium on fracking near any fresh water supplies, salt domes and falt lines. I think if it were required to get fracking permits authorized by the USGS we would not have near as many problems.


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                  • Maggie123

                    tm2020 – I'm *so* with you re fracking! Water issues are stunning. Not only (1)risks to permanently toxify underground and by leaks/drain off to toxify fresh water sources, but (2)massive amounts of fresh water is denied life and earth, used instead to carry out fracking.

                    To anyone who steps back one step to look at what's going on and the implications, fracking is yet another means to bring on utter devastation.

                    Taking them in order of appearance, others are: Fossil fuel generally derived toxins from pesticides to plastics to air quality; Nuclear contamination from mining to uses; and GM plants with associated f.fuel related herbicide/pesticide use. Fracking becomes the 4th atrocity.

                    Earth dynamics geared to 'repair and revitalize itself' following our damage cannot keep up with our rate of abuse.

                    Too many have lived 'on the surface' of 'civilization', fully detached from any sense of how earth, the source of our well-being, 'operates'. Explanation may lie in shift from agricultural to urban. There was a kind of innocent blundering toward increased material comfort that made sense.

                    But humanity cannot afford any longer to play the innocent, IMO. Plants/animals/oceans/humans show signs of multiple diseases linked to environmental related stresses. Appearance of these illnesses accelerates.

                    I look forward to *all* your insights – we need them!!!


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              • Thad

                The BP/ DWH explosion was on the surface. Not on the sea bed 5,000' away or in the well at 12,850' Basic high school chemistry- no air/oxygen at that depth to support an explosion. With a 5,000' sea water cushion there was no affect of the explosion on seabed or inside the well


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                • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

                  My father is a highly respected Geologist and Geophysist and has traveled the world over doing research and consulting for the biggest names in the oil industry and you are a roughneck with the attitude of a drunken sailor. I refuse have any further dialoge with you. Your insults both direct and indirect are a distraction to the business at hand. I sincerly hope you get kicked the hell off this site. I ask others here to send ENE a note with their opinion as well.


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                • FREEDOMROX

                  Thad, you are paid by BP, aren't you? You are the worst apologist I have ever known, you troll. What happened at Macondo was a BLOW OUT! The Blowout Preventer failed. It is the worst explosion imaginable, and surely does not require your hollywood theatrics to illustrate. I know I am going a little fast for you and your limited vocabulary, but re-read three or four times…and you'll get, (attaboy). Now, when the blow out happens and is so explosive that it shears the casing and the pipe way underneath the seabed, then that's how you know just how "explosive" this was. The oil rig was known as a Blowback. THat is when a back pressure is released, then things go 'kaboom' just like they show you on your lil' ol' tv box thingy.
                  Now if you are a good lil' troll, I will give you a cookie and you can go and try to figure out how a remote control works for that tv box thiny…K?


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                  • FREEDOMROX

                    BTW, Thad is the troll over at the Examiner, that trashes Debra Dupre', (whom I cannot stand either), The Advocate, (anywhere his masters tell him to go),and attack any commenter that gets too close to the truth. Thad must be a paid troll, since he went all the way to my little blog on WordPress and made a fool out of himself there as well..TM2020, don't sweat it.
                    Stalkers only mean you gave them a reason to follow you.


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                  • Radio VicFromOregon

                    FR's, we are all over Thad for being an as—, so, come on, don't join him and sink to his level, k? Trolls, shills, or industry spokespeople, paid or not, are welcome here as long as they behave cordially. That's the only requirement of all of us.


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                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Ummm, excuse me? I was responding to an attack in a very flippant yet informative manner. I never agree with personal attacks, which I thought were against the TOS of ENEnews. Since no one stepped in, then I did. Sorry that I did not tip-toe around the main issue. I do take note that he has accomplished his objective…. Where is the main topic of this thread headed now?
                      Honestly, I am much more concerned with the DNR report stating that methane is at explosive levels in to locations…but everyone is over here, instead of an important thread concerning the Fines, and the damning report issued by LDNR.
                      http://enenews.com/state-potential-danger-to-human-life-due-to-gas-pressures-in-area-of-giant-sinkhole-emergency-directive-issued-on-weekend-texas-brine-fined-100000


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                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Ummm, excuse me? I was responding to an attack in a very flippant yet informative manner. I never agree with personal attacks, which I thought were against the TOS of ENEnews. Since no one stepped in, then I did. Sorry that I did not tip-toe around the main issue. I do take note that he has accomplished his objective…. Where is the main topic of this thread headed now?
                      Honestly, I am much more concerned with the DNR report stating that methane is at explosive levels in two locations…but everyone is over here, instead of an important thread concerning the Fines, and the damning report issued by LDNR.
                      http://enenews.com/state-potential-danger-to-human-life-due-to-gas-pressures-in-area-of-giant-sinkhole-emergency-directive-issued-on-weekend-texas-brine-fined-100000


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                    • FREEDOMROX

                      I have no idea why that duplicated.


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                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      FR, not meaning to step on toes. I was remarking about the flippancy, which might fan a flame or two, but, i agree, you put forth important facts and i follow your posts because of them and your directness. I guess i was trying to accomplish the same thing – everybody, just act as though Thad is not insulting you so that we can get to the real information. In fact, i was just reading your post about the 2 locations of methane and about to respond that the US must be making very special leniency to get oil and gas, because in Oregon and in some other industry, these guys would be in jail by now. I have to say that i am shocked at how little oversight exists in this matter and gag orders put in place for those who wished to talk. In Oregon, if you want to keep your job as an elected official, then you had better get both feet into everything and keep the dialogue going. The days of such utter privilege and deference being given to ALL the oil and gas players is astounding to me. You used to be able to do that in Oregon to some degree, but, maybe since there's nothing here that the entire country wants, the pressure to allow these people such carte blanch isn't here.


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                  • Thad

                    FreedomRox– For gas or oil to explode air/ oxygen is required. Pls explain how there could be an explosion in the BOPs at the seabed 4,900' underwater when there is no air or oxygen underwater.
                    Back to the simkhole–NO LEL (Lower Explosive Level) for the methane at the various bubble sites. What DNR is concern with is that methane will vent unknow i places where it can concentrate to LEL such as houses, garages, boat shed, well houses. Gas pressures slighly higher that hydrostatic pressure of water at depth measured– TxBrn reporting flare pressures at 14 psi.


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                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  Thad, i haven't heard this claim since after the first few days of the Macondo disaster. I suppose that technically the fire WAS on the rig and the surrounding oiled water, but, the blowout was down at the well opening on the seabed. Within days, this information was reported as an incorrect assumption. The amount of oil that spread throughout the water column, the observations from the remote cam, and the rise of so much methane that kept preventing the first two attempts at clogging the well to fail put paid to BP's hope that the problem existed at the rig. Your version almost sounds like an attempt to rewrite history and what actually happen. Am i simply not understanding what you are claiming?


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                  • Thad

                    I'm trying to rewrite history- Well it seems that some here are trying to rewrite the laws of chemistry and physic-
                    There was no explosion below the sea surface- An explosion requires a fuel-the oil and gas and an oxidizer– the oxgen in air–There is no air below the surface of the sea.
                    A blow out is just that a blow out of formation pressure -can be oil, gas or salt water. And underwater it does not burn or explode until it reach surface air containing oxygen. Yes land rig do explode right after blowing out BUT they are blowing out into airexplode.

                    Back to the sinkhole- your comment about a gag order– where did that come from–sounds like Dupre of examiner fame–There never was any gag order– it would be impossible. The resident of Bayou Corne area and friends have 3 FB pages dedicated to the simkhole and then there personal FP and there at least 3 blogs


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                    • FREEDOMROX

                      ex·plo·sion
                      an act or instance of exploding; a violent expansion or bursting with noise, as of gunpowder or a boiler ( opposed to implosion ).

                      You cannot be so silly.


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Ditto, ChasAha, Many years ago i read a quote on a sign outside a soup kitchen or mission of some sort. I work to follow it. Sometimes it's a struggle for me because i react so strongly to people being rude and mean. Applying this quote takes lots of practice, for me, at least anyways.

              "Ridicule is the argument of fools".

              So, if someone puts out a hypothesis and a person uses ridicule to counter it, then either they are being intellectually lazy, or they don't actually have a handy counter argument, or they are simply in the mood to be rude. I'm sure there are some other reasons for not offering an actual counter hypothesis. I'd actually really like to hear an honest, open discussion for why the sinkhole might be connected to the Macondo well and why it can't be. It'd be great if links were provided for deeper understanding that weren't just recruiting links, too. I mean, not just links to opinion sites collecting believers, but, like USGS maps, summary backgrounds of earth movement, how far can methane travel, stuff like that. Come on you tuffies. How about a real discussion instead of mudslinging?


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          • oops, clicked the wrong · Reply


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        • Maggie123

          Zombie_Planet – The ENE community is important to me in large part because members usually support, further, or question one another's ideas with courtesy and encouragement. It's common here for posters to share hypotheses and speculations on what complexities may be causes of X or Y. What is your thinking on the geology as it relates to the Sinkhole? Thanks!


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      • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

        To Thad – I do not have to give you nor anyone else my resume or trchnical background anymore than you do. Also there was not enough room in the comment box to explain my hypothesis. Bottom line – BP blowout is connected and one or more of the butane and or propane and or whatever the heck they have stored in those caverns is leaking out and has been for months now. You are welcome to try and PROVE me wrong, if not then keep your negative comments to yourself!


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        • Thad

          You my friend are the village idiot, do they let you out by yourself?

          Truthfully your comments are so ignorant and without any basis scientifically that you are impressing one but yourself while giving others a good laugh.

          I do have the back ground retired after 40 yrs in the oil field mostly in drld.. But really no real experience is need to recognise stupid—


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          • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

            Thad if you were as educated as you claim to be you would not have misspelled recognize. Do not call me your friend and then ispeak to me like that. And Stop your childish insults. your attitude is horrible and is not welcome – do NOT speak to me again.


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          • There was a TV show called Gilligan's Island.

            In the show Gilligan, (the village idiot), always seemed to be the cause of problems, usually he was just trying to help. But, by the end of the show he would always save the day in some amazing way.

            I call it the Gilligan Effect.
            It's worked for me many times.


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          • Maggie123

            Thad – I posted to Zombie_Planet above expressing my appreciation for ENE – won't repeat myself. But I will say I do participate in some news website comment communities where flinging insults is the norm. You'll notice it's not routine here. That said – as someone with oilfield experience you may have ideas on the Sinkhole you'd like to contribute. You'll find us interested!


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          • PurpleRain PurpleRain

            You (thad) have shown yourself to be a rude nasty person! nuf said. I fully agree with Maggie and others and always enjoy listening and learning from everyone's comments.


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        • markww markww

          Time let me step in here THAD you can have underwater detonations . It is a fact due to 0-2 is also compacted inside methane crystals when the blow out happened. There was a video too of fire coming out of one of the pipes,underwater down by the gulf floor and it is online. The gulf floor has been rising up some places over 30 feet and new scar and tears are forming under the gulf floor. Methane under the sea floor is melting due to 500 degree oil which is ALSO hot ENOUGH to melt the methane hydrates and release o-2 which is also inside the crystals. The heated oil and heat under the sea floor is melting methane and is free flowing around America. This is a ELE event because if the methane explodes from underground like a massive bubble or a geyser,it is going to take a 50 mile area with it and the explosion and what is going on is also and could melt the whole salt dome under Texas and the southern states and there is documented videos there too

          Markww


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          • Thad

            MarkWW pls furnish links for documenting fire on bottom — would need to see—And oxygen in the methane. As both are impossible actually nothing in your comment is possible I am curious as to who could be that misinformed and be misleading you.
            What is the melting point of salt-? It is – 801 °C, 1074 K, or 1474 °F — so there would need to be a 3 fold increase in the 500 °F you state—


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      • Anthony Anthony

        **I have a new hypothesis** is what timemachine2020 stated to start with. Isn't it non-thinking which led most of us to this place…..


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    • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

      Hypothesis update – Since the recent uproars when in my previous hypothesis I suggested that the BP DWH explosion in the gulf may be related – I want you to leave that part out of the rest of what I was saying which is I believe that one or more of these salt domes containing butane or propane or a combination of both has been compromised as of months and mabey as of a year or two ago. I also believe that the bayou bubbles in combination with the naturally occuring organic methane bubbles and the sinkhole itself is a direct result of this happening. Everyone wants to get in an uproar when I try to link the BP explosion with the sinkhole event and I may have (again I say MAY HAVE) been wrong about that part of the equation. Mabey an earthquake or series of seismic events caused this to happen, only time will tell. It is obvious by the seismic readings that these caverns are having daily chunks fall off the interior walls of these caverns and fluid exchanges are nonstop. There are no cameras or photos inside these caverns and thats why no one on the planet can explain what is really going on down below. Not even the best of the best geologists so speculation and educated guesses is all we have to go on. SO put that in your pipe and smoke on it for a while mate! It sure as hell would explain a lot wouldn't it????


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      • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

        Mabey just mabey its the saltdome cavern storage of these deadly gasses and petroleum products that the Strategic Oil Reserves are dependant on that is the problem to begin with! Mabey they are not a safe and permanent storage solution as they thought they were!


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    • FREEDOMROX

      TM2020
      My good friend FCF has extended an invitation to you to put up any theory you wish to,over at the Louisiana Sinkhole Bugle at:

      http://lasinkhole.wordpress.com/

      as long as pertains to the subject matter at hand.

      The freedom of expression is a very wonderful gift, for even the mundane and all the way to the 'Out there' theories always leads to thought-provoking ideas, and eventually benefits us all.

      That invitation is open to any that think outside the box, and trust me, FlyingCuttleFish does think outside the box on this subject.


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  • markww markww

    TIME MACHINE there is going to be a huge Drilling Company coming to Beaumont to do a storage dome. I do not know if they are drilling to fill or remove

    Markww


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  • FREEDOMROX

    Are you speaking of the Spindletop storage facilty, mark?


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    • markww markww

      I do not know heard some ham radio guys talking about it,one of them was going to possibly be hired to work on a oil project at Beaumont Texas and were talking about a salt dome and drilling. That is all I got but something is starting up in Beaumont Texas.
      markww


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  • FREEDOMROX

    If so, then check out Golden Triangle.

    http://www.pivotalenergydev.com/Project-Development/Golden-Triangle-Storage.aspx

    "Golden Triangle Storage, a wholly-owned subsidiary of AGL Resources, through support and management provided by Pivotal, is in the process of building a natural gas storage facility in the Spindletop salt dome in Jefferson County and Beaumont, Texas approximately a half-mile to a mile below ground, by hollowing out the salt to create caverns."


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    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      Golden Triangle Storage, AGL… now where have I heard of them before? Oh yeah – same old boys that are trying to get two *more* storage caverns built under Lake Peigneur for the Jefferson Island facility.

      You shouldn't be surprised by all this, mark. The Golden Triangle facility south of you will have something like 25 Bcf of capacity. Pivitol finished Cavern 1 in 2010 and have to be close to finishing Cavern 2 by now. They have two additional caverns permitted. That will be almost fifty billion cubic feet of working capacity.


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  • Maggie123

    Please confirm – the videographer is on the interstate, filming the actual sinkhole, which is literally 'at his feet' should he wander off highway shoulder a yard or two?

    I've viewed fly-overs, have heard/read "close to highway" but have not actually detected sinkhole this close and didn't ask any of you until now – this vid clip makes nearness unmistakable.

    Hopefully this individual represents the beginning of wider public curiosity, therefore wider public awareness and discussion.


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    • richard richard

      Hi Maggie. The way I see it, the videographer is filming the actual bayou, which doesn't reflect on the state of the sinkhole, other then a suggestion of bubbles.

      I could hardly see any bubbles. If there were any, I've seen similar bubbles in various lakes and rivers which weren't under threat of gases. They are everyday.

      The bridge itself demonstrates this is the normal waterflow for the bayou. in short, the video leaves me short. I could've walked up to a nearby lake and created the same.

      It would've at least been good if he could've held the camera steady on some bubbles, then let the auto focus and lighting settle, but he does the usual amateur filming mistake of never sitting still and close on the subject for very long.


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      • Maggie123

        Thanks, Richard – that leaves my 2nd point as hopeful – that he is first of more who will become curious, will investigate, will learn, will engage.


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        • richard richard

          Absolutely Maggie. It's brilliant that someone has taken some steps and posted them on YT. More Citizen Journalism.. the best (but always open to scrutiny, like any other).

          Maybe the person will come to enenews, realise there is a seperate area that is of concern, and try to get some footage there. :)


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    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      He was filming right in Bayou Corne itself. He describes fences around the sinkhole area, so he's aware of where it is. I doubt it's possible to get anywhere near it or film anything from Hwy. 70. He just went further down 70 to the town itself.

      This is where he was filming (Google Earth view) but I don't know if the link will make it:

      http://maps.google.com/maps?&oq=bayou+corne&t=f&z=20&ecpose=30.01536479,-91.15342868,36.3,-108.299,62.327,0


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      • Maggie123

        Thanks Pavewaylll – the google map looked like it would load but took 'forever' so I found this which may also be useful to others: http://www.maplandia.com/united-states/louisiana/assumption-parish/bayou-corne/

        Now – another question to show I've not been following details!

        About how many miles, and in what direction, is the Sinkhole from the town? I thought I could slide the map around and find the Sinkhole but didn't see anything that looked right and realize an 8 acre patch might look pretty small if I'm using magnification to keep town in picture at same time.


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        • aigeezer aigeezer

          Maggie123, I've had pretty good luck with Google Maps:

          https://maps.google.com/

          I use "Bayou Corne, Belle Rose, Assumption, Louisiana 70341" as the search keyphrase for a starting point.

          Superb detailed photos of the area, but of course not "up to the minute" and finding the precise location of the sinkhole is a challenge without local knowledge.

          If any one of us CAN find it exactly, we could use this feature on the site: "Know about this place and want everyone to find it? Add it to Google Maps!"

          That would be very cool!


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          • Maggie123

            Thanks aigeezer, I've bookmarked the map, it works well! Wonder how current the satellite imagery is. Am thinking landmarks include finding the flooded access trail, should be not far from Hwy 70 since people report it's 'headed that way'. Also – wonder if geo-location is not given on one or more of the many documents on the sinkhole many of us have saved!

            Aside from the issue at hand – amazing geological history obviously underlies the region. Well outside any such informal 'regional' study I've done, which has been inland and prairie based. (Earth history narratives are compelling to me – 'older than dirt' has much appeal!)


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            • aigeezer aigeezer

              Maggie123, I forgot to mention you can get a Street View and "drive" along highway 70. You should see a small "person" icon in the upper left corner. Zoom in, drag the person icon onto highway 70, wait a moment, and suddenly you're in a vehicle driving along the highway. You can pan the view to look in any direction. It's great for soaking up the feeling of the place – "Image Date April 2008" though.

              Re the geology – yes, it leaps out that the area is unique. There are quite a few clickable tourist photos in the map view, but nothing sinkhole-related that I can see. I'm also mindful that before the people here became "Cajuns" they were Acadians. They've had more than their share of bad luck.


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              • Maggie123

                Aigeezer – Neat! About the little person and car driving – I wondered why 'he' leaned when I happened to put my cursor over 'him' as if eager to go somewhere!

                Re Acadian-to-Cajun – yes, Cajun surnames are often familiar to me – I met people of the family lines in Canada, and I know how to pronounce 'Guy'! :)

                Further OT: I've thought recently of French history/culture – vaguest musings. It's been much observed/confirmed that language shapes thoughts, concepts, cultures. Northern peoples distinguishing more types of snow is a common example; another is that "time flies" is not universal – not all cultures feel compelled to rush.

                With regard to French, I've noticed what seems a distinct difference – not sure I could pin it down without monstrous study. But French (France) culture may balance intellectual/emotional/material more successfully than other dominant cultures. Quebecois also reflect some of this difference, (Montreal for example), and Cajuns most definitely have held to a distinct culture. I'm not trying to pit one culture against another, (my heritage is pretty solidly Germanic), just low-level 'musing', and makes me wonder about language.


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                • Thad

                  Maggie123 not all the people from Acadia were French- they were religious refugee mostly French but included Irish, Spanish and some jewish– Friend of mine Abshire son born with Tay Sach. DNA showed both parents with jewish background– He can trace his kin back to Acadia–


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                  • Maggie123

                    Thanks, Thad – won't pursue discussion here because clearly off-topic (we have a different forum for that and I'm one of the community most inclined to transgress so I try to behave.) But will say I'm very glad for your input – I'll enjoy digging deeper and learning more of the full Acadian mix. May have heard and let myself lapse into stereotypes due to larger French component. Deep family lines are interesting – an Austrian-Canadian friend told me one surname in my line suggests past history of name change by a family of Jewish heritage. Other interesting tidbits also but like I said … I'm trying to behave! :)


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                  • aigeezer aigeezer

                    Thad, do you have any non-anecdotal evidence for that? The view where I live (Nova Scotia, Canada, formerly known as Acadia) is closer to this:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadia

                    I've never encountered your version before.


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                    • Maggie123

                      More input! Many Thanks, aigeezer! My study begins sooner than I expected! If I find anything that seems relevant in next day or two will post link here with minimal comment since I've admitted I'm too inclined to go OT. :)


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                    • Maggie123

                      There is some evidence: http://germaindoucet.com/canadian_anusim. One of a number of hits googling 'were there jewish people among acadians'. Spanish history involved, which makes me think of Spanish Banks fishing which to my knowledge pre-dates European enduring settlement … interesting ….


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                    • aigeezer aigeezer

                      Maggie123, you've got the ultimate Enenews trump card for this topic – indenting won't allow further direct back-and-forth.

                      Anyway, yes, it's pretty likely that there is at least one person of background X mixed in with any large group of background Y. The number needed to make a ratio significant is in the eye of the observer, I guess. It would certainly be significant in one's own family tree.

                      Years ago, I had a Caucasian student (tall, blond, blue eyes) whose first language was Japanese and who struggled with his few English phrases – one of those surprisingly jarring encounters, after which one thinks – of course, things like that must happen all the time.


                      Report comment

        • aigeezer aigeezer

          Maggie123, as far as I can tell the maplandia site uses Google maps. It could be handy for bypassing congestion at Google's portals, but I think it leads to the same content in the end.


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          • Maggie123

            Yes, aigeezer, it does use Google or so it seems. Maplandia was at top of browser hit lists so I went there. You're right – may sometimes be faster than straight to Google, but presents an abundance of annoying tourist encouragements, so Maplandia is 2nd choice – thanks for steering me back to Google!


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      • richard richard

        Yes paveway, thanks, the map did load and it's spot on, nice.

        Taking a wander ;)


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  • Thad

    So why didn't he say nything to the people living in the area???
    What if the bubbles are H2S ? Bayou Corne people need to know about all new bubble sites.


    Report comment

    • Maggie123

      Hi Thad – I took him to be a curious, interested, citizen from the area generally but we don't know his town/city. We also don't know what he does for a living – maybe makes furniture or delivers pizza! I took it that he is only now 'warming up' to investigating further after catching local news reports the last month or so. He would not have known anyone, it was near dark, he probably didn't feel it was appropriate to knock on doors. He did, however, take time to catch a bit of film which he's now sharing and that's very much all to the good, IMO. :)


      Report comment

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    Apologies to the readers other than ZOMBIEHEAD for my foul language.


    Report comment

    • crystalwind crystalwind

      tm2020, your hypothesis–why not? Whether your theory or a different one, sure, it could connect to BP blowout somehow, even over 100 miles away. Everything affects something else, if not directly, then like dominoes. And clearly, highly "qualified" BP and others have seriously screwed up. I don't think it requires scientific background to postulate or problem solve; common sense and a little bit of humility (ie: desire to know the truth) might have better vision than the highly "qualified" technos who landed us in these extreme dire situations. God only knows how they got to their positions of power; I just want to know how to get them out. BTW, my dad told me when I was a teen that an occasional cuss word here and there can help get someone's attention and add emphasis. Oh, Brad forgot to tell you you spelled "maybe" wrong. Heh heh…


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      • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

        crystalwind you are an angel. Thank you for your kind words and support.


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      • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

        Like I said – Id like to see them prove me wrong!


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Maybe they'll step up to the challenge tm2020. But, i WOULD like to see you expand on your theory more so that i can understand it. It is intriguing. I've also looked at the links that markww has provided and it follows a similar vein, no pun intended. I adhere to the expanding earth theory- actually, the expanding everything theory – and have had to spend a lot of time studying the tectonic plates, but, haven't developed an idea of what is underground in terms of gases and liquids and how they might move. In the EE theory, gravity is not created by a mass impressing along a two dimensional ether that is currently the most held theory to date, so that mind change about gravity is itself a big step to take. I may be stick there for 5 years. In fact, physicists that don't hold to the EE theory are advocating that our understanding of gravity is wrong, as is our understanding of time. This is headache stuff. So is your theory because it requires very big shifts in how people think methane moves and earth shifts. So, go ahead and please post more about it so i have a chance to really think on it. Thx.


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        • Thad

          TM2020 how about a question of logic and you give a logical answer— If it were possible for oil in the BP MC-252 area or anyother area offshore to connect and flow to a land location such as Bayou Corne– Why have they bothered with drlg offshore for the last 60 tyrs?


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          • Maggie123

            ??? Do you not notice the combative phrasing of your "invitation" to dialogue? The implication is "how about I pose a logical question (because I'm logical) and you see if you can do the same (but I'm challenging and my attitude is condescending.) You may not mean it that way – but believe me, I used to try to field questions like that and unless it comes from a very good friend in a good natured exchange, I receive it as sarcasm and do not respond well.


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    • Maggie123

      Timemachine2020 – no need to apologize! I was really surprised at two people suddenly showing up with harassment posts! Almost made me wonder if they were one person posting under two names. The posts made no sense but reminded me of 'standard fare' I've seen on a few sites I sometimes post on. Those are regular daily news sites where insult-flingers seem to enjoy rudeness and and show up again and again flinging away at one another, while non-insult-flinging posters ignore them and post thoughtful comment … very strange!


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      • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

        I did not recognize either of them and certainly not used to that kind of hostility on here. ALl good. Thanks for all of yall's support.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          It gets weird here sometimes tm2020 for many of us. I've been cursed and called a nuclear shill, someone used the bit- word at me, and i was once told to just die. But, as M123 says, most times it's a supportive place. Folks came to my rescue, too. The go and die one did sting for a while for me. I let their hate in before. It's a bit bizarre having to actually read through the insults directed at you. Now i realize they are either 1) needing to emotionally spew because that is how they handle their fear and feelings of helplessness, 2) and can get away with it given the anonymity of the web, 3) are picking fights because they think that kicking ass is a form of dialogue, 4) never learned how to have an exchange of ideas, or 5) are possessed by daemons. Since ADMIN has made it clear that no religion is allowed, i suppose they would frown if we brought in a priest to conduct a public exorcism, however satisfying ridding ourselves of their oogie energy would certainly be 0 :-)


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      • Radio VicFromOregon

        I thought the same thing M123!


        Report comment

    • A couple of strategies I've used on antagonistic comments.

      1. Just ignore them. They are seeking attention.

      2. If it gets to where you cannot ignore it, then by all means refrain from name calling. I know, it's hard to do.
      (I even consider the word 'stupid' as a bad hurtful word.)

      3. Just type a (-1). Like a thumbs down. What the -1 says for me is that your comment is inappropriate and not worth a real reply. Then, I move on.
      (see below)

      4. Report the comment to Admin.


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      • garjackson

        Maybe also tell these new people to take look at the rules and see that personal attacks are not allowed. Might work since they will get banned eventuallly if it they don;t stop. It's good to have a debate but damn Thad…


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    • markww markww

      TIME don't worry about the shills you just keep hitting them with facts and theories, it is free speech brother. And if you or your dad see something let us all know.

      Markww


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  • crystalwind crystalwind

    Around 2:50 you can see regular ripples in the water but there is no wind movement in the trees that might cause them. Tremors, you think?


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  • Thad

    The whole vid is a crock– ask the people living there–There NO fences as claimed–There ARE people in the houses.. There sinkhole is near and he could have vid that–
    Just some wannabee trying for his 1 minute on stage—LOL


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  • Thad

    "Cryatalwind', "VicFromOregon , "M123' what is supportive in a BS post with no scientific possibility, a rambling of delusion impossiblities that only frightens people living in the area who might mistake his delusions for reality. One should not humor a lunatic trying to frighten people.
    TM 2020 as your supositions defy science as we know it, science as developed and defined over thousands of years. Please educate we the dumb. Post cause and effects– define and identify the connecting geological structures and composition of those formation– or is it being teleported by HAARP equipment.


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    • Maggie123

      Thad – The cooperative (everybody learns) way to communicate disagreement follows a pattern that goes something like this: (pattern ONLY!)

      "When you say (quote the other person's thought or idea…) you may be overlooking (give your information)."

      You are free to add remarks like: "from my experience" or "from my study" to further convince. You are free to cite an authoritative source or to offer an anecdotal experience.

      Personally I've limited formal study of 'hard' sciences but have decades of outdoor nature-watching from farming and bush living, and through farming also have much experience in machinery – my point? I have strong intuitions on cause/effect dynamics + have read up on chaos theory so also am aware of complexity issues. I've done a lot of theorizing across time – it's what we humans do when we retain curiosity and mix it with problem solving.

      I've always benefited from feedback to my theorizing from people with more formal science/engineering training or experience. I've not always been convinced but I've welcomed their willingness and it's added to my overall understanding.

      So – share if you're inclined. A teacher does not bash others about – if she/he does, then 'teaching' is not what is happening.

      Oh – one more thing: at every moment when 2 are in communication, they are in a teacher/student dynamic that runs both ways.

      (You are also free of course to bash away, but we won't be able to hear until the bashing…


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      • Maggie123

        … until the bashing stops.)


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      • Thad

        Hypothesis is one thing it involves possibles. Fantasy is another. There is nothing in TM2020 fantasy but fantasy– nothing possible– Retired after +40 drlg in the US and 22 foreign countries. I am qualified to recognise what is possible and even probably–He was an oil field equipment salesman, claims his father a geologist– it begs the question why if he is so smart he did not follow in some academic or scientific field.
        I ask for proofs- nothing. He waste the time of all who read his fantasy.Distract them from reality.


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        • Maggie123

          Thad – You can't use put-down language and gain an audience – yet it seems you still toss offensive remarks into some of your posts. Your experience should/could bring value and learning here – instead, your style may result in your being cut off.

          Please give us your overview of the situation, of any possible links between Gulf Oil disaster and Sinkhole, and if none, please explain. That's all you need do. You don't even need to reference anyone else's ideas; we'll make the comparisons ourselves and will return with questions or propose qualifying remarks as they occur to us.


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          • Maggie123

            BTW – assuming you're new to site – it is certainly acceptable to give an 'extended' overview that may take several posts – we near limit, hit 'submit', then use 'reply' to carry on. To avoid loosing last few words, it's wise to hit 'submit' with 20-30 characters to spare. Just thought I'd mention it in case your overview is longer (it well might be) and you felt restricted by allowable post size.


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              M123, is the open forum a place where we can expound or am i going way over limit here? I was thinking the limit just applied to the Topic forums. My bad?


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              • Maggie123

                Gosh, Vic – you mean I may not be as guilty as I think I am? Hmm … looks like I've made an assumption! I thought we were strongly encouraged to keep remarks relevant to 'item headliner'. Never occurred to me to notice that we have specific forums PLUS the general (open?) forum guided by news items.

                I've thought everything that fit no 'tight' forum topic or that didn't relate fairly directly to a news item topic was meant to shift to 'off topic non-nuclear'.

                I confess I've not checked any guidelines – I've just picked up understandings from reading posts, complaints, etc. I guess that means I don't know the answer! :)

                Hmm! (Proves my point about need to examine assumptions – good to be called on one!) :)


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                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  Well, i've gotten worse cuz i forget where the hell i am half the time! I think i'm in the the off topic when i'm in the latest headlines. I AM one of the worse offenders. Right now, i couldn't tell you what topic this is cuz i can't see the top of my screen that displays that information. It's like walking into another room and forgetting why you went in there in the first place ;-)


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                  • Maggie123

                    :) I use the http/ bar contents sometimes to check where I am – or scroll up. Both in cases where I'm pretty sure I'm either OT or about to introduce something that could create OT issues.

                    I think this particular article differs from most because it really didn't offer data or official or citizen news to chew on. Science topic became the theme of possible Sinkhole-Gulf connection, which we've also discussed other times.

                    Maybe lack of data/detail contributed to what developed, plus, of course, the actual posts!

                    Maybe chats on OT forum have been convenienced by us holding forth over here! :)

                    ("maybe", "maybe", "maybe" – tossing out hypotheses – a never ending human habit I'm particularly fond of!)
                    :)


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Thad. So, some folks will go down rabbit holes. It's not are place to define other people's content here. And maybe give some us credit for being able to think on our own. Your arguments could go a long way if you weren't intentionally being so offensive and combative. Are you here to share and exchange or to control outcomes?


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        • FREEDOMROX

          Thank you Thad for showing your tue colors and agenda. So you are one of the ones that have put 50,686 holes in the Gulf of Mexico, huh? At the thinnest part of the crust, and you helped make it like Swiss Cheese, just as all of Louisiana, Mississppi, and East Coast Texas look like a sieve on land as well. Were you also one of the one ignorant and greedy enough to makes a collander out of all these salt domes?
          Why would they drill for 60 years? Greed and corporate profits. You should know…you were one of them.


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          • Thad

            FreedomRox LOL I didn't hear you apologising for all the oil products you have used. LOL
            Corporate greed–no — my corporation consisted of my family–yeah I was "greedy" to house, clothe, feed, educate— LOL


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            • markww markww

              If You are going to bash people THAD i suggest you put down the why's and why not's. And if you have expertise put them down, the disaster from Bp to now and what is happening in the Southern states and gas explosions, are UNKNOWN, especially the salt dome problem, every scientists in the world has never seen this no blue prints to go by, ad things that sound crazy might just be real and work. If you are as smart as you say If I were you would be down on the front lines helping to solve the largest disaster to hit man kind.

              markww


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              • Thad

                Really am not bashing people or calling them shill. executioner or some other childish tripe.I do question their lack of knowledge.
                I do know what caused the BP disaster-man's negligence to save a penny. There was nothing about the well or the formations that made the disaster inevitable simple a corporation creed for cutting cost over safety.
                I have drld salt domes, been involved and am involved with the residents of Bayou Corne. You speak of gas explosion –where?
                Pls post your background expertise so we have a basis to debate– anything in geology, hydrology, or any realate drlg technology–maybe some earth science.
                There two post in this thread one explains the BP the disaster– the other the Bayou Corne sinkhole– have you read?? pls comment where you disagree — and why.
                Do you have any opinions or theories of your own or just want to disagree with mine?


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              • Thad

                MarkWW-"especially the salt dome problem, every scientists in the world has never seen this"

                Search Dasietta Tx saltdome sinkhole and there is another outside Plaquemines, La on Hwy 1744


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    • -1

      I feel slighted.
      My user name did not make the list :(


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    • crystalwind crystalwind

      Wow…you've put me in awesome company. Thanks!! Not that I always agree with all their ideas, but that's allowable. "I reserve the right to be wrong."


      Report comment

  • Well, Well. It's Thad. I thought I recognized your writing! I've bumped into Thad before.. If I remember correctly, very corporate, and drill baby drill.


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    • Thad

      Can you in any way valid TM2020 suppositions?
      For what it worth I retired in 2007–


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      • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

        Thad get a life. Quit attacking me. If you have something useful to say then do so. Your charachter attacks on me are simply diverting attention to the crisis at hand. You are a beligerant argumentative disruptful and a disrespectful person. I feel sorry for you. Find something interesting and helpful to the cause. No one wants to hear you ranting and raving and attacking others ideas. I TOLD everyone that it was a HYPOTHESIS – Try looking that up in a dictionary. And niether does anyone want to hear about how many holes you drilled in the earth and how much destruction and pollution you are DIRECTLY responsible for over the past 40 years in the oilfield drilling business. Either say something constructive or go find a different blog to foam at the mouth on.


        Report comment

        • @TimeMachine2020, Just ignore him. He was stirring things up on a local La. news site too. My hypothesis is that he is supplementinghis retirement income.

          And … Thad .. No I can't validate his hypothesis – but since no supposed experts seem to know what is going on, or what to do, TM's hypothesis is as good as any. After all … "experts" put us in this position.


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          • Maggie123

            Am noting your experience, JHewes76, and your ongoing hassle TimeMachine2020. Have said all I can in hopes to shift offensive style. I still don't understand 'paid shill' – not good for the body chemistry even of the person who spews insults!


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            • @Maggie, Some get paid to make posts less critical to corporate interests – to kind of balance things out. It's a PR tatic to discredit those making the noise.


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              • Thad

                JHewes76 you make a limp suggestion of "Some get paid to make posts less critical to corporate interests"– what corporate issue would discrediting TM 2020 hypothesis serve. Gee really thought you were above that.


                Report comment

                • @Thad, Are you denying "some get paid to make posts less critical to corporate interests", or that you are in that category?


                  Report comment

                • Maggie123

                  Thad – Again, – do you not notice the insults embedded in your phrasing? (I'm not saying I need an answer – it's a rhetorical question, as was the other one I raised about combative phrasing.)


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                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  Thad, i'm reporting you as of now. You know better and are coming here just to trash talk. One class of 101 logic doesn't make a thinker or a communicator of intelligence. I've graded too many papers from people who use insult instead of thinking to try and score points. I no longer have the patience or the tolerance. It's not allowed here.


                  Report comment

            • aigeezer aigeezer

              Maggie123, re the "paid shill" phenomenon – people use the term imprecisely sometimes, but here's a possibly relevant tidbit….

              I got a spam ad a while back inviting me to become a paid shill, but they didn't put it that way at all. They put on a great pitch about the evils of the Internet and how a person's reputation could be unfairly smeared by a single untrue forum post. Wouldn't I like to help right those wrongs and get paid for it too by telling the truth? All I had to do was post spontaneous-looking notes to counter the bad stuff. They – my employer wannabe – would do the hard work of finding the place where I should right the wrongs, suggest what I should say, and so forth. I would be on a mission of service to humanity!

              I'm still laughing at the cheek and cleverness of it.

              Anyway, one person's paid shill is another person's honest crusader – a true believer in their cause.

              I always try to ignore the intensity of the messaging, and look instead for evidence of underlying facts. It's hard, as you know, and there tends to be an inverse relationship.

              I always admire your patience with the hard-edged among us.


              Report comment

              • Link Please! I'm unemployed, ROFLMAO


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                • aigeezer aigeezer

                  Aww – I didn't keep it. You could ask Admin for a raise though. ;-)

                  I was thinking about your Fukushima images yesterday and wondering whether you had video-clip capability in your new art software.

                  Still images seem less likely to go viral than vids (although you never know). When "xtranormal" first came out I got all excited because it let people like me (zero graphic talent) make possibly-viral vids for YT. My attention wandered when I found out it wasn't free though – it had just been a whim for me, but I still like to watch their vids. Sample:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ7vIufVkCk

                  Anyway… viral Fukushima vids with your name on them – leading to a career with Pixar?… Who knows?


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              • Radio VicFromOregon

                aigeezer,
                "I always try to ignore the intensity of the messaging, and look instead for evidence of underlying facts. It's hard, as you know, and there tends to be an inverse relationship."
                Good insight! Thx.


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            • Maggie123

              Thanks, JHewes76 & aigeezer – reminds me of my brief stint writing radio ad copy for drive-in movies when nothing was playing at them anymore above B- grade. I confess to a certain amount of double entendre but suppose it went unnoticed, my employer never mentioned it. It could be tempting though – earn a few dollars undoing what one is presumed doing? … Naw … high risk of ineffective result and on the edge of a slippery slope best not approached. :)


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          • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

            JHewes – agreed, Besides the whole industry is based on educated guesses everytime they drill a hole anyway. What I do know is that at this pace we are going to frack or drill one to many times if we haven't already. I also have a problem with storing all these fuels like, propane, butane, gasoline, oil, NORM, Nuclear Waste etc. In these saltdomes. I did some research on the New Mexico salt domes where Nuclear Waste has been stored and the effects it had on the communities and local native Indians. I came across this elder Indian wise man (might have been a chief not sure) that was talking how we should not be putting poisons into the earth like that as she will certainly reject them eventually like our bodies do invading sicknesses when it can. Respect for planet Earth is what has been lost and global awareness of this is crucial for the human race. We are leaving a very nasty place for future generations to deal with. I think that if The government with all its strategic oil reserves want to continue this practice they should have to build new technology to store it in a safer non intrusive manner. These underground injection wells are not a permanent solution like they one thought. Just like a nuclear accident could never happen to us! Clean water is going to be the gold of the future. Both the Gulf of Mexico and now the Pacific ocean are getting trashed from the FUKU Tepco crisis. Not to mention all the fresh water contamination from fracking and drilling pollution.


            Report comment

            • @TimeMachine, Yep. guesses and gambles. They gambled that a Fuku disaster wouldn't happen… and we all lost.


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            • Thad

              TM2020 "I did some research on the New Mexico salt domes where Nuclear Waste are stored" do you have a link.
              The onlything I could find for nuclear waste storage in New Mexico was limited to military /government waste in a salt bed- no saltdomes– no nuke waste from nuke power plants etc.
              I do know the Yucca Mt facility was cancelled and salt dome storage has being prohibited because of events like Daisetta, Tx and now Bayou Corne would put finished to that idea.


              Report comment

              • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

                Thad you are such a turd – you got me. I meant to say SALTBED not saltdome when referring to the New Mexico Nuclear Waste. Just had the sinkhole on my mind is all. Guess you have never misspoke a word before in your life. My god man you would argue with a fucking fencepole. You are so annoying I think you got a little to much of that gas in 79 cuz your brain has gone to mush. Quit fucking picking my comments apart like a third grade teacher. You thrive on making people upset. So on that note you can go fuck yourself.


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          • Thad

            So it if fine for TM2020 to put out an unsupported hypothesis– hero of the day-

            And I am a villian for expressing from experience my opinion of it's impossibility and ask him for something technical or scientific or even some other learned person opinion supporting.


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            • Maggie123

              Not a villain – difference of style.


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              • CBuck CBuck

                Maggie, I adore you. I hate to see you wasting time babysitting here. I respect the heck out of how diplomatic you are though, and I see the point you are trying to make. :)


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                • Maggie123

                  Thanks, CBuck – obviously I'm doing something meaningful to me since I carry on, but I'm a little surprised at the 'venue'! Pretty OT – on the other hand, maybe not – could turn out there's lots to learn that will help sort out Sinkhole puzzles. (But for me, the driver is something different – as you know I could launch one of my long 'semi-scholarly' explanations, but won't this time.) A weird day! :) :)


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          TM2020. You're not helping. You're getting frazzled and ratty around the edges of our posts. I'll defend your right to put forth an argument, but, not to lash back with insults of your own. Please, just get above this guy, disengage, and focus on sharing your views.


          Report comment

  • Sickputer

    No need to get annoyed. Counter points of view are acceptable when presented without malice. But when Admin wakes up after working all night…I think the flamers will need a new IP and a new alias to comment on Enenews.

    You don't have to be anti-nuke or anti-frack to post…just cordial. The Admin has imparted a few sensible rules for posters…if you don't like the rules then go post at some out-of-control website where idiots rule and knowledge is scarce.

    Madness in Japan… but not on Enenews.


    Report comment

    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Excellent points, Sickputer. I know enenews is often referred to as a place where someone can come and only interact with likeminded people who all agree with you. I understand the need, believe me. But, given it's uniqueness and broad scope, it needs to remain a place of worldwide community where we can discuss ALL opinions about energy so that we become aware of ALL the multiple aspects surrounding energy in our lives, our governments, our businesses, and our environments.

      "Madness in Japan… but not on Enenews". Perfectly said, Sickputer.


      Report comment

  • irhologram

    Oh, my, oh my, oh my! The new ones sure do get cheeky, don't they? To answer the question, how could the sinkhole be related to the BP disaster 140 miles out… BP drilled at the edge of the continental shelf, a formation that abuts the Coastal Aquifer, where a horizontal flow of oil and water are known to exist, one to the other through porous limestone and lake led clay/sand. As many experts said it WOULD, it appears the methane/oil released by the puncture at the New Horizon rig is moving SIDEWAYS along the path of least resistance, given the water pressure at that depth 140 miles out.

    With respect to the bubbles, you can only see them at the end of the vid, they are consistent and FLOAT ON MOVING water/oil at a fairly good clip. Someone here asked day before yesterday, didn't anyone else see water movement…see it FLOWING? Yes, I see it.


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    • Thad

      Coastal aguifier – does not extend that for offshore– MC (Mississippi Canyon) 252 is past the edge of the Contenintal shelf by some 30 miles. The rig lost was the "Deep Water Horizon" There is no continous sand formation from MC-252 to Bayou Corne –there is much faulting and formation changes- porous limestone is no present offshore La but is found in Fla. Oil can not flow through clay- no porousity– The well in question was cemented first from the bottom the from the top– nothing will flow through a 12,850' cement plug
      Pretend the aquifier did go that far out – the oils zone is at 12,850' — So you think it is going to flow over 2 miles uphill for 140 miles? Where is the high point of the Coastal Aquifier, what would the hydrostatic pressure in the pretend aquifier? 2,500-3,000 psi


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      • Maggie123

        Thad – improved, thank you. I confess I've wandered into this discussion 'geologically unprepared'. I've meant to take time to draw my own diagrams of underlying strata and adjust them as I understand better and have not done so. We've had access to some good strata diagrams and I've bookmarked them and/or saved as pdfs but again, confess I've have not referred to them (trying to go paperless has major drawbacks!)

        **How do you explain the Sinkhole complexities to yourself?
        **What information do you believe we (including engineers, etc who're working on this at the site) need to know to make sense of it?
        **What do you see as a way to 'fix' this?
        **What does the Sinkhole situation suggest to you regarding potential disastrous problems that might develop from other industry activity in the area?

        (Not asking you to take on all these questions at once. Be advised too, I think I speak for all of us when I say: we ENErs are acutely attuned to horrific damage to earth/life resulting from chase of fuels and fortunes made that create 'blindness' to seeing any problems. We don't see getting off nuclear and fossil fuel as easy or 'fun' – but we are committed to detoxifying earth/life.)


        Report comment

        • Thad

          Maggie 123 the space here for explanation of the Bayou Corne Sink hole is too small- in box message me on FB 'thad daly'and i would be happy to explain the cause of the event either by FB message of e-mail–.

          Sorry but as an old fart I have a problem with people posting things with out the simplest of research, in the day of the internet and search engine- there is no excuse…
          One commented on water-oil migrating through clays two simple two word searches "aquifier sands" 11,000 items, "aquifier clays" 0 items


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          • Maggie123

            Thad – thanks re FB and when I finally get there, if we've not sorted things out here, I'll do that. (FB is cumbersome on my system and I keep putting off going there, even tho once I get there I enjoy following connections.)

            I think I'm beginning to better understand something that I want to comment on. It may be that you assume all people share general understandings (in your example, key words).

            It's a common assumption in my observation. I had to figure it out because I was raised a bit outside cultural mainstream of my age group and have often been on a different page from peers. They developed shared understandings that I barely understood.

            I've been outside mainstream experience in other ways too – such that when I hear someone say "At his/her age he/she should know better" I bristle. Many times I've not had a clue about conventions that anyone my age – whatever it was at the time – "should" know.

            So you may assume any of us would 'naturally', 'obviously' use the key words you knew to use. Frankly – using 'aquifer' with sands or clays to notice a difference would never have occurred to me. Now I know – and 'aqui-' as a prefix is more useful to me this evening than it was this morning. Thank you. That's what I meant by possibility of your contributions here.

            Watch impatience. I've not conquered it myself but sometimes I can let it go and communication improves.

            The teacher/learner dynamic – pretty neat, actually.


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      • FREEDOMROX

        Thad, as I progressed down the thread, you have actually gained some respect with me, so I will try once again to explain why TM2020 feels as he does, and yes, I have been the loudest proponent of the methane migration theory, since Matt Simmons alerted us to this six weeks before his death.

        You do understand the concept of 'Faultlines', I am sure, and the Gulf Coast along and beyond the Continental Shelf, and extending all the way up to the Bayou Corne area. There is your pathway. When we speak of the Tertiary or the Miocene, then we are not taking into account any clay. Clay is a recent addition in the soils and only extends 8-10 ft. down in the lower Gulf, (landmass), itself riddled by faults. Clay plays no part in this. Allow Exxon to explain this to you, and then maybe you will understand.
        http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/documents/hood/images/hood

        as well as;

        Sherwood Gagliano Coastal Environments, Inc.
        http://www.csc.noaa.gov/cz/CZ05_Proceedings/pdf%20files/Gagliano.pdf

        Now, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, and trust you to see the probablilities.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          FR, Thx, for that geology lesson, too. I was trying to figure out how clay went a mile down or deeper in the Gulf region when most of the soil down there is soft and permeable, which, of course is why there's oil and methane down there in abundance given it used to be a subtropical shallow lake filled and surrounded by animals and plants a plenty. I'm beginning to wonder just what books hydrocarbon geologists read if they think clay goes down that far, especially down there. We have tons of clay soil in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. Pure clay enough in some areas that you can throw a pot with it. But, even here, in clay land, it's just so many feet deep, and usually in pockets here and there, not layered thick throughout. Depends upon the vegetation and other sediments above it, but most often, finding clay in Oregon usually means a 2 to 3 inch topsoil, if that, and a clay soil mixture that goes down a few feet deep.


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        • Thad

          The GoM is a sedimentry basim filled with what was wash down through the Mississippi drainage sand, clay, silt– Clay as it becomes compressed by over burden and water pressure becomes first mudstone or siltstone then when harder is shale and marl. Just as sand underpressure becomes sand stone..I have actually drilled soft clays at 15,000'. "Louisiana soil mostly soft an permeable"– because of organic and sand mixed in. Have you ever hear people refer to Louisiana gumbo soil? a gray black clay soil quite common in louisiana Sorry trying to be polite but you do need to read a like more about he geological make up of GoM formations–


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          • @Thad, You remind me of a college professor I had. I never understood him when I was a student – Now I realize he a real gruff demanding old fart on the outside, but inside he was trying to educate.


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          • Maggie123

            Thad, (JHewes76 too) – I hope to get back to ENE and learn more of relevant geology in this discussion but can't stay now.

            Want to thank you Thad re additional information on clays. I had clay-to-shale in mind while reviewing Canada's Peace R. clay abundance yesterday but a lot was reverie from the few yrs I gave myself an assignment to learn the story of "each and every rock found in the glacial rubble" of nearby small rivers. I learned a lot but at level most suited for teaching elem. students, which I eventually did.

            Want to give a comment too on gruffness. It can have charm, but it can – without intent – deeply intimidate or even deeply threaten (anxiety spike). Depends on the 'receiver's' experiences. I lived from childhood among normal, successful-in-community, adults who had a range of 'shield strategies' that often prevented them from communicating authentic feelings toward others. It was a deeply learned trans-generational cultural 'way'. To be successful, even in cordial communication, they'd had to develop 'shields'. Some used anger flares, some used put-down teasing, some used silence/avoidance, some used gruffness, some used "sunny day". Possible harm/anxiety was suppressed. Harm to vulnerability kept pattern going. More children learned to shut down to develop shields of their own. In shutting down, brains, hearts and talents were diminished, compromised. Oversimplifying but … breaking the pattern may be a good thing.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            Thank you Thad, you now admit that "Louisiana soil mostly soft an permeable" You do understand that statement, don't you? You do understand permeability? Do I need to give you the definition?


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            • Thad

              Yeah and it has aquifiers too We were speaking of soil the upper layer. Deeper- less organic and it is layered sand and clay and deeper yet where thecaly is hardened in to shale and the sand to sand stone–

              And there is no 140 mile long continous permeable formation from 12,850'at MC-252

              If you can find document and show– you would become rich–no need to drl offshore–


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        • Thad

          FRox–Research Matt Simmons– he was not educated or trained in any earth sciences or any technology related to drlg.
          He was a financier and while he made his "prophecies of doom and gloom" bad mouthing BP – he bought BP stock as fast as he could drive the price down—some 8,000 share before he died. It is all on record —


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    • Radio VicFromOregon

      it's the horizontal flow that's tripping people up, isn't it. But, would't methand pressure account for that? I recall the Macondo well blew because the methane pressure was extremely high and unexpected. Now, there has been a lot of soiul testing done in tat region, but, deep driling is relatively new since the technology didn't exist until recently to perform it. So, it might be that we are going to have to revise our maps. Had Texas Brine coughed up the extra money for the more recent geological survey maps, they would have had accurate information from newer technology. Instead, they relied on a map that was nearly a decade old. 10 years is too long in todays world. And, what is really beneath out feet may not be exactly as we have decided it is based upon existing knowledge. We've studied this region strictly for exploitation. What constituted "enough information" for that industry may have limited the scope of the search. It happens in all industries – the "telescopic view" to be efficient and economical.


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      • FREEDOMROX

        "Methane pressures were measured between 10,000 to 100,000 times normal background methane pressures measured prior to the Macondo MC252 and 296 projects and the three wellheads, 2 abandoned by BP. Pressures of this magnitude are unheard of and unknown, just as promulgation of methane hydrates heating up to a point to affect to the extent the placement of a dome was made impossible in Operation TopKill, and BP was in possession fo the knowledge that this would be the result. It was a planned failure."
        Matt Simmons


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Well, now, thx FR, because that is what i thought i heard and read and saw. I think it was pretty dicey getting a cap on the well, as i recall, especially since BP hadn't put out for a secondary blowout preventer. $45,000 bucks may have made a big difference, but, when you're only making billions, i guess that seems like a lot of money to you. So, i think that helps make my point that geologists may not know precisely what is below ground. It doesn't prove it, just helps make it IMHO.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          FR, just one more thought on the methane. We don't have hydrocarbon extraction in the Pacific Northwest, so i know next to nothing about methane, but, i took just about every physical, geological, biological, and meteorological science class i could find in college. It's been a long time, but, pressure is still pressure, and those classes tell me that the figures you just posted are completely surprising to the extraction industry. To my thinking, to get that level of pressure, the reservoir of methane would have to be enormous. How else could it gain such high pressure readings? Is there a way to have a small pool of methane put out a high reading in the range of these figures? What i remember about BP hitting the methane and workers starting to spill the beans in interviews were that many of them were very, very frightened and worried about a potential massive blowout of the methane that could rip up the seabed for miles. It was, in fact, i thought, the reason BP decided to not place another well, and instead, abandoned drilling in that immediate area.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            One thing that most people do not understand is that methane that is at extreme depths is highly compressed. If I remember correctly, and I may not, is that for every 5000 ft. down, one barrel of natural gas, (methane) expands as it travels up towards the atmosphere. and at one foot above sea level that i barrel has become 323 barrels.
            If say a surge of say 10 barrels is propelled with force and not rising in a contolled fashion, then you wind up with 3,230 barrels at the top explosively expanding.
            What the problem was is that scientist's claimed that pressure was also measured on the seafloor for over a week after the incident, and inhibited all efforts at that depth to get to or affect the operations at every turn. Why this is so is a mystery to me, except for the bone crushing depths involved, but the volume issue was always baffling. I had a thought that they has tapped into a pocket of the salt dome they were drilling next to or in. If that is true and they were in the actual diapur, then if released from its salt prison, then it will find any path of least resistance to escape. Kind of like a genie's bottle with a cracked cork. :)


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            • Thad

              FRox what is the porousity and permeable of the salt in a salt dome.

              What presures were the scientist neasuring at the seabed
              Seabed water pressure at that depth- 2,700 psi, Formation pressure calculated when drilled 12,500 psi
              Well head presure below BOPs during blown-out 9,800 psi


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          • FREEDOMROX

            Actually it was pressures that were measured at a "build up" and took TransOcean workers by surprise. Afterwards it became methane levels. I should have clarified for the BP OIL Troll.
            Actually at Wellhead Blow out the pressure was measured at 12,126 PSI. Two backup pressure guages were stuck there and transmitted along with the digital log of last hit was of 10,248 PSI at the time of the back pressure blow out that reached the rig within 1.3 seconds. Do you understand that this was hypersonic?
            Thaddy boy seems not have either inside access, or just parroting what BP claimed and was found to have lied when the logs were presented….
            Unreal. Can't trust anyone.


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            • Thad

              FDRox enough name calling it is childish–
              My 40 yr in the oil field was in drlg fluid and wellbore dynamic.
              Un-like you I have training and experience in the field–AND I do know what I'm talking about. If you could step away from your own preconcieved view that in fear of being wrong you protect so hard you might learn something. Again unlike you because of my training and experience I understood what was presented at the various investigations. Could comvert raw data because I knew and used the calculations and formulas for many years.
              Have difficulty understanding your term that don't exist in the oil field–are you parroting a term some other know-nothing applied–" back pressure blow is not an oil field term. A blow-out is either saltwater, gas, oil or combination of. And occur in only two form on land or marine emviroments as a surface blow-out or a subsurface blow
              Hyper sonic is based on speed of sound in AIR– did you know that sound travels faster in a liquid and or in a solid– If you are referring to data transmitted from the wellhead/ BOPS gauges to rig gauges via acoustic impulse and would be hypersonic– Speed of sound in seawater–5114 ft/sec
              The two pressures you quote- one is actual pressure at well head, the second is actually formation pressure–wellhead pressure corrected for hydrostatic of 4,900 ft of seawater–


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        • Thad

          FRox- "Methane pressures were measured between 10,000 to 100,000 times normal background methane pressures measured prior to the Macondo MC252"

          In what were these pressures contained.

          Either copied wrong or Someone made a silly mistake substituting "pressure" for "levels"


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      • Thad

        The BP well blew out because two cement plug were set which BP negligently did not then the drilling fluid with a specific gravity of 1.56 was displaced with seawater with a spec grav of 1.02– It is the hydrostatic pressure (back pressure) of the drilling fluid that keeps the well pressure in check. BP reduced that presure almost 50% and the two untested cement plugs failed. The not testing the cement plug is the basis for the negligent charges against BP.
        The significance of the high methane content in the oil some 20% is that as a gas under pressure it enters the wellbore compressed as it rises it expands creating huge bubble coming up the well bore farther reducing the back pressure of the hydrostatic. It accelerates the blow out reducing the time to react.


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        • I see. That is very informative. So what do you think is really happening down there on the sea floor with the oil from the crevasses and such?


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        • FREEDOMROX

          Actually Thad. Very good info, and I gave a simpler explanation before I got down to your post. Same thing, differently stated. One correction, it was Halliburton that was to blame for the faulty concrete, and Transocean running the rig, but they dodged the bullet…"Buck stops here with BP"

          What is your take on BP's three wellheads, and at MC 252 and MC 286 and I can prove it, and drilling into the salt diapur? Also, can you help explain the seafloor cracks that opened up after the disaster? This is not hypebole, but a fact that the existing seeps began pouring oil during the time that BP was attempting a cap, and many more opened up just after it was alledgedly capped.

          Just curious.

          Also, I do understand that you needed to support your family, as does an Executioner in a prison, but they do not go around bragging about their knowledge of how to kill, nor defend the chemicals they used to carry out their occupation.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            sorry, MC 296.


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          • Thad

            Issues BP vs Halliburton is pre-blow out and lead to blow out– Issue BP vs TransOcean are post blow wereeither cause by the blow out or found faulty during the blow out prior to explosion__

            If you can review the investigations. It is on record and verified Halliburton presented BP with three cement formulations that had been lab tested.. BP took one changed the formula and instructed Halliburton to use.with out lab verification test.remember Halliburton is only a contracted service company and BP owner of the well is boss. A cement job is two parts -chemical formula and the mechanical placement. Halliburton recommended 26 pipe centralizers to keep casing centered in well bore– where the csng touches the well bore side there would be no cement –BP had only 6, instructed Halliburton to run– Halliburton warned BP in writing by e-mail both BP on rig mgr and onshore engrs that there was a high probablity of cement failure– BP reminded Halliburton who was boss._
            And the cement failed — and 11 mendied– and the Gulf was seriously damaged–


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          • Thad

            USCG monitored the nearest natural seep during kill operations and reported –no change–
            You are aware ther has been three ROV surveys observed by USCG, NOAA and other and no fissures found–
            Also Aug/ Sept 2011 after that reported sheen the NOAA vessel Okeanos did an extensive survey over a wide area around and including MC-252. Using their Multibeam sonar detected nothing out of the ordinary– Check NOAA site archive MS Okeanos Aug-Sept 2011. Data includes survey grid.


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Thad, it was also reported by one of these, USCG or NOAA that there was no oil in the water column, either, at the time of the BP disaster. So, reports are not always correct. I guess i'm wondering what you are trying to say here for us? Are you saying the blowout was no big deal or that it was all due to some unnamed person at BP, that methane was never an issue and that there has been no seeps since? I appreciate you posting figures for the pressures at various feet, but, that doesn't really say much in terms of what happened if the real issue is a faulty cement plug. It is my understanding that BP's decision to change the Halliburton formula wasn't that out of the norm, and that, in fact, it probably should have worked had this particular well not had the methane in such quantity or pressure or however you wish to measure it. It was my understanding that BP ignored their own reports of those levels of methane, which is what made their choice in the cement plug a negligent one. So, was there, in your opinion, which my guess is informed from the talk amongst the workers, a higher than usual methane count or not?


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              • Radio VicFromOregon

                And, if i may drone on some more about the methane. It is also my understanding that the reason everyone dealing with this was at odds about how much oil was pouring out of the well head, however it got to that state – explosion versus blow out versus blowback versus whatever name versus bad plug – was because more was coming out than expected and it took some considerable effort and attempts to finally plug it completely. Do you think that was an exaggeration of the actual events? People were genuinely surprised at the volumes, which, of course, were estimated, and that the setting up of the 24/7 webcam is what started to give the clue, a cam that was only set up because of Congressional intervention, and not because of BP, Halliburton, Transocean or anyone connected with the oil industry. People were getting the feeling that the less the public knew, the better the industry felt. So, maybe you could address that, too, from the oil worker side of things. Why keep things so obscure and understate the amounts of oil and methane? Or, was NOAA and others eventually overstating the amounts? The doubts about your industry's veracity comes from the industry not being forthcoming. While we may be unable to comprehend first source information about oil rigging because most of us are not oil riggers, there is surely enough second source, or layperson reporting, that gets the gist. Why am i or FreedomRox, or so many of us here wrong in your opinion?


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          • Thad

            FreedomRox—And we still await your "mea culpas' and apologies for all the oil derived products you have used– will continue to use.
            And your comment does not bother me as I ignore all mutters that come from small minds and hypocrities.


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            • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

              But.. this other fellow named Thad said..

              July 19,2010

              *JUST IN* Feds: Methane seeping from at least 2 places in seafloor; @ 200 meters & 3 km from well

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcECdwx1XFs&feature=player_embedded#!


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              • Thad

                Yeah Thad Allen– remember why he was changed out– did not know what he was talking about. Two "seeps were a break mid point of the riser and the end of the riser- both buried in the sediment when the riser hit bottom. When it was explained to him he keep referring to them as seeps–


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            • FREEDOMROX

              I have o such 'mea culpas' within me. I was born into a world that John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, and his ilk made for me. I did not do it. I wish that I had the understanding that Tesla did, but I don't. I will not apologize for living.
              That does not mean I can't work to try to make a better world for my grand-children. One where there is no PSA's in a plastic bottle…one where the water is actually clean and non-floridated. If I had my druthers, all plastics, fuels, and clothing would be made of Hemp, and not petro chemicals.
              I am self-sufficient and have taught my children how to grow their own foods, and to think for themselves.

              I just can't apologize to anybody for living, especially not to someone that chose to be oil soaked with blood money.


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              • Thad

                FRox that's OK. You do realise by using you are helping creat the continuing market– Welcome Executioner's assistant. You buy the rope— LOL


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                • FREEDOMROX

                  You sir, are an Apologist and a fool. If I were to throw you into a fire upon birth, and you survived…then it would be your contention that if you still used fire to cook with, then you would be down to the same level as those who also cook with fire?

                  That is a sick and perverted analogy, and just the reason you used such. You are a true Oil Soaked Shill, and come to these boards for no other reason than to divide people with details, while over looking the over-arching and potentially catastrophic consequences.

                  I notice you give your retirement date as 2007, just as BP was in full swing testing out Synthia in the Gulf. Is BP who you worked for? Possibly TransOcean? Did you know what they were actually doing? Sure seems like it to me. You sound maybe one step above a "roughneck". Is that the problem? You never really made it even above "Drill Man"?

                  Why don't you tell all the good people how you pumped Synthia into the earth and just what it was for? Or did you not know because that above your "Pay-Grade"?

                  I tire of you and your tactics.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          How does this differ from what FRox just posted, Thad? I'm not sure where the disagreement is but it's being presented as one.


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          • Thad

            What is "this"?
            frox wants to hide his lack of knowledge and intellect by name calling and belittling others– making his baseless accusations. In particular he attacks those who do have the knowledge and experience with the intellect acheive.
            He has not even bothered to research drlg fluids, drlg fluid engineer or anything about fluid dynamics as related to drlg oil wells—I have– for 40 yrs.


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            • FREEDOMROX

              No, I wanted to keep you over here on this thread so that others are able to post in peace on News threads that really matter. I also notice you won't answer the question of Synthia either.
              Also notice you can't answer whether you ever made it past "roughneck" either… Hmmmm, vewwwy intewestink, vewwy intewestink.
              Remember the Do-run-run songs of the fifties? Oh da do run run, da do mo ron


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              • Thad

                frox–Synthia is another myth– not one single sample has been produced by anyone—
                Pay grade– try six figures a level that in your chosen ignorance you will never acheive. Worked in 22 different countries that you will, when you can afford to buy only see in National Geographic magazines.
                So bring on more smart clown remark to hide your inferiority complex– (secret–it is not a complex- it is real)


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  • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

    First I would like to thank everyone. I have learned so much reading through all the posts. I never miss a day. You guys are great. I see it like this. If they are not hiding anything then why are we only getting 37 second clips of a flyover. We shouldn't have to depend on this person for a video…. 2nd: The void space must be larger than 2.8 million cubic yards by now. We all know they have done the seismic survey, where the hell is it? 3rd thank goodness we have one State Rep that stepped in for the looser who Reps that parish, but he has been awfully quiet. Lastly, Jindal owes the people of this community his attention!!!


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    • crystalwind crystalwind

      I'm not from Louisiana, but when I saw the vid (Nov. 18?) I was impressed with J Harrison. So when I put some thought into the sinkhole emissions, I emailed him and asked about monitoring the air for radioactivity. He said in the vid that he was going to put up an interactive website for this issue. Have you heard anything about it?


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      • aigeezer aigeezer

        I had the opposite impression of Harrison when I looked at his online presence after seeing the vid. I hope you turn out to be right. If ever a champion was needed, this is the time.

        This was one of the links that made me squeamish about him, ambiguous though it is:

        http://legis.la.gov/boards/board_members.asp?board=786

        I'm just a long-distance kibitzer though. The facts will unfold one way or another.


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        • crystalwind crystalwind

          @aigeezer: Oh, poop. You're probably right. When I saw that he was on the energy board I naively concluded he might be more appropriate to write to than St. Germaine. I wasn't sure about him, but I figured what the heck, give it a try. I noticed he had come with documents, had answers, and took notes, whereas she seemed uninformed, did nothing and seemed supremely bored if not contemptuous. However, after seeing irhologram's good cop bad cop comment, and not seeing H’s proposed website (has anyone else seen it yet?) and not getting a response to my email, I think you are right. Sorry about those poor people with this "representation". Regarding the industry reports, I’m sure there is some value, but I am somewhat cynical in light of industry’s track record for dishonesty. What they report may be true, but the question remains: what is not reported? Or, what is there that is reported which is true but presented with a misleading conclusion? I was hoping that the proposed H website, which was supposed to include updates about his follow-ups and ongoing info from residents, would help balance the information. It was just another empty hope.


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      • Thad

        Try Face Book "Bayou Corne Sinkhole" the admin lives in Bayou Corne or "Residences for a positive assunption parish" – again residents of the area—


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    No ..it's not the sinkhole..it's Bayou Corne itself…
    Not good..

    I'm posting some industry analysis..

    http://www.assumptionla.com/bayoucorne/industry

    Hopefully others here will add their input.


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  • aigeezer aigeezer

    Thanks, Heart. The industry stuff makes for tricky reading, as you know, since there are never any problems cited. It's still useful because of what they do and do not talk about.

    I found some new (to me) material in the Texas Brine pdf from within your link:

    http://www.texasbrine.com/response/2012-12-01_TBC-Update.pdf

    Everything is peachy, apparently.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Peachy..yep..


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    The activity does seem to take on a SE direction..
    I'm a little concerned for Supreme,La…etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Assumption_Parish_Louisiana_With_Municipal_Labels.PNG


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  • irhologram

    I thought the flaring of the gas rendered the benzene, et al inert and harmless. Now I find it DOESN'T? And just distributes throughout the atmosphere?


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  • irhologram

    Yeah. Barrels on and St. Germaine. Good cop, bad cop of the energy Gestapo.


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  • irhologram

    Wonderful dialogue. You folks are awesome. Correction for my iPads over correction. I MEANT and typed Harrison plays good cop and St. Germaine plays bad cop.

    With respect to horizontal migration through packed clay sand…that it DOES occur…that was a month or so when I was researching the aquifers. It was from an official study. I'd rather not go through it all to repost it again. Please take my word, but in the meantime post your research that migration does NOT traverse horizontally?


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    • Thad

      Please neither oil, water or gas can migrate though clay and if the is too much clay in a sand it plugs the pore space in the sand and restrict- even prevent migration in the "dirty" sand–Go back and read again it is the clay layers above and below the sand that isolates the water in the aquifier sand..You mis read-the term "aquiclude" – an impermeable clay or rock formation that blocks the water and keeps it in the aquifier sand or vugular limestone.
      Never said fluids can not migrate horizontal. Said there is no way for it to migrate 140 mi going up hill against a 3,000 psi head pressure when the is no connecting permeable formation and too many geological obstruction in the way.


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      • Maggie123

        Thad, you've got my attention – I know clay. At least I know the dark grey clay of Canada's Peace River region. I'm inclined to agree that clay deposits of serious thickness would be impermeable.

        The clay in our region was principle 'ingredient' so far as I know of poplar forested hills which ran as far as eye could see. Organic matter and topsoil was thin many places. There were areas of true prairie here/there but mostly it was clay – lots of it, (I assume from glaciation – there were pockets of sand/gravel in the clay – gravel pit digs were sometimes miles from rivers and creeks.)

        I'd use potting clay as example. In fact, PR clay was utilitarian enough it was gathered by local potters. Anyone who's worked clay for potting knows you need to get air bubbles out – the clay in these hills was dense as if worked for potting. I speak of clay a few meters deep from earth surface- not deep subterranean clay, but would think deeper would = more compression/density, (reduced permeability chances). I can attest to some clay's general impermeability. (There is one type of clay expressly used to seal farm dugout ponds that have water holding issues.)

        Always wondered: Digging a few ft. into forest clay (took a long time) I sometimes thought I could smell sulfur. We had n.gas wells – all sour. Is there any chance of some kind of permeability to some gasses in some conditions? Depth/pressure must affect all dynamics?


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      • Thad, if you have some great news regarding why we should not be concerned about the sinkhole, and everything is going to be fine,, that's exciting! Post it on a blog for all to see. If you can't lay it all out for us… then you are just nitpicking.


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        • Thad

          JH 76- I am very concerned with the H2S–in '76 carried a friend off a rig in the Guatemala jungle – dead. H2S is instantly fatal with a concentration in air as little as 0.005%

          I am very concerned with the missing 2.75 million yds3 of missing material. A void somewhere underground waiting to fall in forming a huge sink hole.

          2.75 million cubic yds would be 85 acre hole 20' deep that is 1,900' x 1,900 x 20'– think surface area of 72 football fields –20' deep


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          • FREEDOMROX

            Glad to see you are concerned with something, sir. Please look at above responses under my name, and read the following authorities in your industry explain why clays have no bearing on rock and shale migrations. Clay is the very last defense against earth/atmospheric migrations, and only in certain areas that claim a high clay content…but, clay is pourous until forged at high temperatures or extreme pressures. Underneath the 7-12 ft. topsoil and with only a 6-9 ft. clay structured layer, then methane gas protection is next to non-existent. Clay is not a strata, but an anomaly in shallow deposits.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            BTW, your figures are correct, and more than cause for concern, unfortunately, officials and the oil and gas industry will not answer our questions that you so rightfully pose. I know, as I have asked 42 times…no response. Sorry about your friend.


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Sorry for the loss of your friend, too, Thad.


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          • @Thad, Thanks for posting your concerns about H2S. That was honest, and from the heart. +1


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          • Maggie123

            Thad – among themes of 'weight' yesterday, I took the death of your friend and your experience to heart, but did not acknowledge it. I carried it some through the day. I want to join others and say I, too, am sorry.


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    • Radio VicFromOregon

      irhologram, i agree, there MUST be horizontal spread or flow. Certainly fluids flow down hill, but, they also flow uphill through reverse osmosis, right? Not easily, but, the physics are there. And, fluids also accumulate, that is, they fill up a space before they move on. If fluid can't flow downward due to some blockage, then it will go the route of least resistance – up, down, over or backward. Correct? I have to imagine that clay is not the only material making up the area in question, and that veins of permeable soil exist through the region given the varied composition. And, these various sediments may layer thicker in one place and thinner in another. There may not be the uniformity that geologists assumed existed even 15 years ago or even more recently. It would be unlikely that oil would make it's way 140 miles through all sorts of obstacles without something helping it. But, certainly the methane, which is in far more abundance that previously thought, could add pressure for lateral AND upward movement of oil. But, we all need to remember that the region was deliberately fractured by underground nuclear detonation in the 80's to free up methane to flow where it was previously blocked by clay and rock. These manmade cracks and fissures were never map as far as i know. There was little knowledge of all the fault lines there back then. Well, anywhere actually. We tend to discover new fault lines once a quake occurs. Just look at the one running…


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      • Thad

        VFO –"we all need to remember that the region was deliberately fractured by underground nuclear detonation in the 80's to free up methane"— what region are your referring to?

        There were only three "Plowshare" nuclear explosions to stimulate natural gas production– ALL three were at Grand Junction Colorado in 1973

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plowshare#Plowshare_tests

        VFO remember a well outside Bickleton Wash near the wind farm that blew out in '07 4 men injured- was there working — one of my last jobs before retiring


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        • @Thad, I didn't know that 8O This is the kind of stuff you can really help us with :)


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          These were in the 80's under Reagan. And, not under Plowshare which would have been defunct by then. It wasn't my link, but, i can look for it if you want to know more about it. It was down in the Gulf, not up in Colorado. A combined effort of government and business. That gas is now up for consideration for use if it is decided that it is not too radioactive by todays standards.


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          • Thad

            VFO pls document the "80 nuke gas stimulation in the Gulf I tried 4 different search engine and found two both the same as what has been posted here.
            There was an idiot's 2 shot project in a Mississippi saltdome IIRC in '63


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              That may be it, Thad and i am getting my dates wrong, but, perhaps it became topic in the news again, i the 80's or was speculated as a means, again, to extract natural gas. I didn't post the link or save it, but someone here might recall it. I'll google for it, too. Additionally, just this past month there was discussion regarding a news article covering a story by a company suggesting that enough time has now elapsed that the natural gas might now be safe to use. Some science article advocating doing so given the nation's need for natural gas. I thought that article said 30 years had elapsed and the rate of radiological decay of the isotopes they tested would also place it at around 30 years, which reinforced for me the earlier article that said the tests were done in the 80's. But, 20 years for radiation really isn't all that much, nor would it be significant time wise if, indeed, parts of the substrate had been fractured along the Mississippi Alluvial Plain. I did't give the methane argument much thought until readings those articles and realizing that i can't just dismiss the concerns out of hand given that someone saw fit to detonate nukes in permeable substrate to fracture it. I'd expect that it would take at least 30 to 50 years to even begin to see any ramifications from such an action geologically speaking.


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Thad, Anne provided these two links. I must have my dates wrong. So, 5 tests in all. 3 called gas bucket to free up natural gas in the 4 corners area and 2 in Georgia in the Miss. Alluvial Plain to see how a below ground hollow cavern detonation would react. It magnified the blast and was exponentially stronger than expected. It was also felt by many for miles around since the shock wave rolled the ground in waves.

              Nuclear Fracking!
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b1ZJ_DyDBns

              Atomic Journeys: Mississippi segment
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIw0RU4JFOA


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            My Correction thanks to Anne, and Thad and others – 60's and 70's. 60's for methane and 70's to see what would happen if they detonated a bomb in an underground cavern. The two in the 70's were in Georgia in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain, which does extend all the way out into the Gulf. The article i just read here on enenews, i thought, had something about the 80's. Maybe my recall of Reagan talking about it was his reflections or a new proposal. I don't know since it didn't happen, thankfully. But, the issue is, 70's or 80's, it happened in the Miss Alluvial Plain, the result of the impact was exponentially bigger than they expected, the shock wave going out through miles of sediment with such force that people reported watching the ground rise up like sea swells. This is the explanation given by researchers who are looking into that plain as they find cracks and fissures that emanate from those caverns. The 3 blasts in the 4 corners, called Gas Bucket, were to loosen methane which became radioactive, which should have been a no brainer, but, there you have it. Of course, the obvious, what the f– are nuclear detonations being used for such purposes? Gas Bucket to feed the habit. The cavern – to measure the blast wondering if a method of measuring could be created to detect if the Soviets could do the same to test their bombs.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          It's really too bad they are sticking with the propeller turbines when there are far safer, cheaper, quicker to install, and far more energy effective vertical axis turbines. In fact, they work so well, the issue was how to stabilize them at maximum speeds. They can also be designed far more bird and bat friendly as well as worker friendly.


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  • Radio VicFromOregon

    con't ….under Fukushima. It was unknown 10 years ago. I think we do have to rethink the whole Mississippi Alluvial Plain with new eyes. Things may not be as extreme or dire as some believe it could become, but, the extraction industry does tend to ignore new information until it is forced, usually through legislation after an accident, to use it. Texas Brine is a perfect example of that. Old maps that "guessed" where the cavern wall was located because it made sense that it should be located where they thought instead of where it actually was. BP, too. BP refused to believe their own tests that methane was accumulating in the volume and pressures their readings indicated because their certainties were embedded in "how it's always been" or it "just can't be true".


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    • Thad

      Tx Brn guess where the out side wall was? NO there are electronic wireline tools that could be ran to measure.
      Little exercise in deductive reasoning.. For some reason TxBrn decided to continue solution mining they need to move up in saltdome. How or why did they come to that decision?? Did they start seeing rock formation debris in their brine? They pulled up higher up in the casing and cut a "window" (hole) in the cavern casing to start solution mining at that point. Because TxBrn had cut a hole in their casing a Mechanical Integerty Test was required- The test involves filling the cavern full then applying a predetermined (by DNR) test pressure. At some point in pressurizing the test failed..And there had been no problem before that point.. my opinion ..TxBrn blew the bottom of the cavern out. For 90days tried to pressurize cavernall ther time pushing brine out the fracture–until it reached a softer sediment and it start liquifying it all the way to the surface..TxBrn unable to reach test pressure gave ask for and receive a permit to plug which they got and did.
      Then at some time later the weight of the luquified sediment was greater that the pressure in the cavern so it slipped–sliding into the cavern. The broken shale and sandstone formations broken through contain oil and gas– and has been "fingerprinted" as the same as coming out at the different vents and recovered from the cavern–


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      • jec jec

        @Thad, you nailed it!


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      • or-well

        Thad, question – do you think venting/flaring is sufficient to deal with the gas volume present in the associated oil and gas bearing strata?
        I realise you may not have the data to answer or may not want to speculate.
        I'm less concerned with whether it was over-pressurizing or a positioning miscalculation on the part of Texas Brine. (Altho I realise there's probable liability issues there.)
        I'm thinking more along the lines of "where to from here?"
        Also, do you see this scenario – eventually – affecting the sidewall stability of adjacent caverns in this salt dome?
        Thanks in advance if you care to respond.


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        • @or-well, Thad doesn't really answer explain things – he just points out our errors. However, I agree that we need knowledgeable people like Thad to give their opinions as to what is going on and why – since we get shit from the gov't and corporations involved.


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          • Thad

            JH 76– pls note when I do point out errors I try to included correct or at least better information –

            Before bad information can be replaced with good information someone or something has to point out what information is bad.
            I'm 70 yo and the knowledge I have I was not born with and some accumulated along the way was bad/ wrong– and someone cared enough to point it out–And YEAH it did not always make me happy–


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            • Maggie123

              Thad (and others) – I'm going to shift from 'beating *my* drum' in this thread and get on-topic but before I do I want to say – considering this is an internet forum, with all the communication difficulties that presents – I'm almost speechless. What has developed here hits to the heart of why I'm here at ENE – to be in and contribute to a community absolutely focused on maximizing individual contribution to 'group goal' – which is to understand and resolve what appears to be global earth/life disaster. I'm grateful for you and everyone contributing, for the sharing of knowledge and experience, for the research and personal observation! (Thanks, all.)


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            • FREEDOMROX

              No Sir, I disagree. You obfuscate, ameliorate, hesitate, then change the subject, or go on personal attacks. Not a trustworthy individual.


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        • Thad

          The formations along the outside of a salt were lifted up by the salt dome when it formed, the upper ends are commpressed and faualt limiting holding volume– There has been no pressure problem — slightly greater than the pressure of a column of water at depth measure- at vents measured pressure 14 psi. The gas has displaced a large amount of water from the aquifier so will take a long time for all to vent. It may sound silly but a good comparasion would be an air mattress with a bunch of pin holes– a lot of air and alot of little holes but no overburden pressusre to force air out–
          Stability of the saltdome– it is over 1 mi x 3 mi some 14,000' ft high,-I'll let someone else figure the outside area LOL. The area of the hole in the side of the TxBrn cavern is quite small- possible just a series of wide crack– reasoning for that is on how long it has taken material to slide into the cavern And that the second sinkhole has not formed


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      • FREEDOMROX

        Again, what you say and what Texas Brine says makes no sense at all. I refer you http://freedomrox.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/louisiana-dnr-complicit-in-sinkhole-coverup/

        If you look at their explanation to DNR, then it is nonsense. According to the permit issued on Aug. 13, 2012, Operational Plan of Oxy Geismar# 3A, shows the top of the cavern diapur is at 3400 ft. with 100 ft. outside width to get in the actual brined out cavern. This is the TOP of the cavern, mind you, not the bottom.

        Now Texas Brine states that the casing was penetrated *your window or hole), at 3400 ft. where the confusion comes in is the depths. This would only be 50-100ft. from the top of the cavern as previously stated. Also, take note that no salt cavity seems to be above the 3400 ft. mark.

        Now, as of last report the BOTTOM is now at 4241ft. In the beginning it was listed as 5,650 feet. That is a loss of 1409 ft. from the BOTTOM of the cavern.

        So someone tell me how the bottom was fractured? Brining is a top down process if this was made like every other cavern at the complex. If this is not the case here, then show me any documents saying otherwise?

        So how could Texas Brine fracture the bottom? It seems more logical to me that they collapsed the rock and shale and popped the top of the cavern and filled the bottom of the cavern, or their is an outside influence or migration. Of course salt, according to Dandia is supposed to heal itself. Unless brined completely out.


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        • FREEDOMROX

          SANDIA Labs, that is.

          How Salt Brined caverns are formed.

          http://www.soltechprojects.ca/wp-content/flash/gas.php


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        • Thad

          Solution mining for brine is a bottom up operation. Hole is drld in salt dome to depth, upper section is cased in steel casing Cenented in place. A production pipe is run to the botom of the uncased section and water is pumpedin. Water down and out the production pipe up the open annulus ito the casing then recirculated until it is salt saturated and is brine.
          The salt starts dissolving in the the water at the first point of contact- where it left the production pipe and continues to dissolve salt as it goes up the open annulus. That is the reason caverns are bell shape…
          Back to the sinkhole– your question how did the cavern bottom go from 5,650' upward to 4,241' The soil, sand,sediment in the area where the sinkhole formed became liquified and drop down slid through the cavern wall break and started to fill the cavern— that is where the matrial from the sinkhole went.
          what caused the fracture or break out — covered in another post here– Why at the bottom- that is the widest part of the cavern– so the closest point to the outside formation – also it woud see the highest test pressure- at bottom it would have the hydrostatic pressure weight of the brine, ~1,500 psi plus the applied test pressure.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            You still missed the point. They drilled in from the top, not the bottom. I gave you the graphic representation, and I know how brining is accomplised, but once again, no real answer. I understand what you are saying, just do not agree with sequence of events, or the primary cause, which was drilling out just above the salt. Again, to what purpose?
            I know we will go around and around, and I won't, because I do have some expertise in subsidence geology, and this is not following any known pattern. The Ohio event….was just stupidity, but easily understood. I don't know how many times I have watched the land next to or even half a mile away collapse due to quarry operations, especially when dredging is involved.
            A few thousand gallons of injected water into shale will not in any circumstance I know, that would cause a subsidence event of this magnitude. Again, my main problem with all of this is the reason TB would inject at the height of the cavern top when it was known no such salt existed at that depth. I did check with DNR to make certain of the measurements, and they are correct, but the lady I talked to could not answer my qyestion as to the purpose, and referred me to Texas Brine, who is not taking calls, except at the sales desk. She also could not answer why LDNR issued a permit, when they were aware of the same….


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            • Thad

              FRox The top of the salt dome is 700' feet the casing is set at 3,400'in the salt. So there is 2,700' above the top of the cavern– it was up some where in that 2,700 ft of salt the casing window was cut.

              Yes they drl in from the top but brine solution mining is from the bttom as I described—
              Try this–

              http://bayoucornesinkhole.weebly.com/gallery.html


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            • Thad

              Missed the comment about water and shale– the formation in southern Louisiana are not harden into shale until much deeper– The shale and samdstone formations were carried up with the upthrust of the dome and are from the layer on top the salt bed -12,000-14,000'During upthrust of dome the formations "riding up" are stretched and compressed.
              In that link just posted there is a seismic side view of the dome—


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              FR, every one is passing the bad penny and until it's settled in the court, we probably won't have the answer to why TB did what they did, which to me doesn't really matter. What matters to me is that they deliberately chose to go forth without the latest and greatest information about the caverns and the salt dome ad used what they knew to be outdated information, but, they were comfortable guesstimating instead of knowing to save a few thousands bucks. So, while deciphering the mystery of the collapse, as you say, is not following ay known patterns, i'm also trying to figure what kind of government oversight would allow a company to proceed on guesses.


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        • sentinelle sentinelle

          Where are the reports showing the bottom of the cavern was fractured?

          There's a pdf entitled "Conceptual Model of Current Situation" on line. The illustration shows the dirt, rocks and side layer of salt crumbled and falling from below the sinkhole and side of dome filling the cavern from the bottom at 5,654' up to 4,272 feet. Sludge is shown from there to 4,085' where the brine reaches to the top of the cavern at 3,400' (where the drill hole enters the top of cavern). The copy I printed out is dated 10/25/12. If you can find it, it will be a very helpful visual as to what is likely happening underground.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            Thank you, but all searches have led me to nowhere. The salt diapur is humongous and flattened out along the bottom portion at around a quarter mile long at around 9000 ft to 12000 ft below ground and only the top portion above 6500ft. was used, but nothing still jibes. Math and depth, and width, and length are still the same in all areas, and this is no different. The numbers just do not add up. Thad can make up his theories all he wants, but it doesn't make it anymore true than my own theories….only I do not present mine as fact, but probabilities. Potential is that which has not been released…yet.


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              FR, i guess i keep coming back to the issue of the sinkhole because, as you say, "it doesn't add up". Either very important info is being held back by a company or two about a nefarious practice or two, or people really, really got the geology all wrong in this salt dome, or, as many wonder, there are other outside physical factors influencing the behavior of this sinkhole. It just may be that with litigation pending and the various "national security" issues protecting many aspects of extraction company privacy, especially in regards to fracking, that we will not get our answers. I worry about the people and the environment there, the water, the animals, i'm amazed at the laissez faire approach the industry is taking, the wide leeway they get because they are bringing the oil and gas up, the forming of ranks to protect the industry from inspection, the gagging of the state geologist, all of it. We no longer hear about the various fluids dumped in for storage and are given illustrations that would make even an inference of what went wrong impossible for their 2 dimensionality and almost cartoonish display. If these are considered accurate state of the art geological maps for that region, then these folks are living about 20 years in the past down there technologically speaking. I've seen better illustrations and explanations in grade school books. All of it is surreal, like a show and a shared sense of ominous portent that always comes from people being left to…


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Sentinelle, i think the notion that the bottom has collapsed is more recent than the latest graphs. There isn't any actual proof of any of the claims. It is ALL speculation and depending on what field of science is doing the speculating, we get different interpretations. That isn't saying some are lying or others are better guessers. But, modern science is a very specialized, compartmentalized occurrence now and you no longer are required to have a broader or more well rounded education in order to practice in the field of your choice, i.e., the only geology an extraction industry needs to know is how to find the stuff and get the stuff out of the ground and what to do in the USUAL times when things go wrong. But, when something UNUSUAL happens, everyone is lost because they can only think from the perspective they know and cherish and have their livelihoods depending on. Unfortunately, that is profit science, which is often cherry picked, and proves repeated inadequate to the bigger problems it causes such as oil spills, nuclear waste, and tapping high pressure methane pockets every seems intent on ignoring is there.


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      • Radio VicFromOregon

        So, the problem was actually oversight regulations? Or, just that those regulations required a pressure test, and that pressure test punched the hole because Texas Brine had chosen to forego buying the most recent available mapping before the moving up the cavern?


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      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Then, perhaps they forgot to use those little wires, Thad, because it was offered as the reason why Texas Brine didn't know they were so close to the wall.


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  • I strongly suggest viewing this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=sigV02V5yMY&feature=g-all&nomobile=1
    If Dutchsinse is correct, then there is indeed a connection between BP and the sinkholes. But it's not what you think it is.


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    • Thad

      Just a little example of his accuracy –the first pics "sinkhole in Ohio was not a sinkhole but a land slip due to a sand dredge getting to close to the road– That informations was released within the first hour. Long before he made his vid— He is aware of it and has not bother to correct his vid–


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      • FREEDOMROX

        Lord, help me…I am beginning to like you. I too never care for DutchSince's vids. I do respect Jim Lee for his efforts on ClimateViewer but not Dutch's manipulation of it. Also, I never trust anyone begging for donations, or trying to sell a book, as the UN "Viper of Macondo" does constantly.

        Maybe we got off on the wrong foot… Hope so.


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      • kez

        @ Thad … I appreciated your input on this thread and giving another perspective here. FWIW I personally did not find your comments overly offensive … and I mean no disrespect to the other ENE contributors here.

        This is often a one sided forum and it is hard as a newcomer to challenge the prevailing opinions without being labeled as some sort of paid shill for "the other side."

        In understanding and creating change all efforts are doomed without at least pondering a differing view. Walk a mile in my shoes sort of thing.

        I hope you will contribute again on this subject.

        Take care all.


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  • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

    Well, well, well… looky here.. appears BP may have very well ruptured the bottom of the gulf floor or at least aggravated maybe a fault. This is from Bonny On Wings of Care. ORG:

    "We Shall See!"
    Aerial monitoring pays off, because there's no refuting videos and photos; and when they are presented publicly, somebody has to answer for them. SOMETHING is still leaking fresh oil from the Macondo reservoir miles below the seafloor around Mississippi Canyon Block 252.
    After 31 months, is there suddenly a new burst of what might prove to be a very limited amount of residual oil and drilling product from abandoned equipment and debris?
    Or, do we have potentially chronic fractures in the seafloor that were created or aggravated by the BP blowout in April 2010?
    How can it be that we still do not understand how extensive or damaging the BP incident of April 2010 was?
    Will we learn from this tragedy and the lessons since, that much more caution is needed when we engage in activities where an accident could cause widespread, long-term damage to the chain of life?
    http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2012/11/coast_guard_approves_underwate.html


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    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      A little pitch for the victims of the BP disaster.
      Oh ..BP settled up with the goverment..but NOT THE VICTIMS.

      Fuel Fix: For these spill victims ..legalese is just one language barrier.

      http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/12/03/for-these-spill-victims-legalese-is-just-one-language-barrier/


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    • Thad

      Respect Bonnie and OWOC and their work– doing something that the EPA and USCG should be doing– monitoring the gulf for spill and leaks– don't know why they have not tasked a real time satelite to do it- Hell- I can go Google Earth and come down to an eye altitude of 350' count the shingles on my roof.
      Research natural oil seeps in the gulf— they have always been there– there is one documented with in 1 1/2 miles of the wellhead-documented before the well was drilled.
      The blowing-out of oil and gas did not fracture the bottom– the oil and gas leaving the formation would cause the formation pressure to DECREASE—just as taking an ice pick to a car tire –Annnnnd there was no explosion on bottom–
      YEAH- BP needs to retrieve all the juk off bottom the TopHat Cap and the riser.. That can be done and should be done if for no other reason than to take those out of consideration or being used for excuse. Process of elimination–


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      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Thad, can you clarify for me – BP is NOT responsible for cleaning ALL the oil, but just the stuff around the wellhead? And, it didn't blowout at the bottom? And, i understand that oil seeps can relieve pressure, but, they can also be an indication of pressure. And, this other seep 1 1/2 miles from the well head was measured and documented to see how much it may have been contributing to the millions of gallons of oil released by BP? What i recall reading about that seep, if it's the same one, was that it was part of the same oil reservoir, but, was periodic, and very small and DID NOT contribute in any significant way to the overall oil spill into the water column. I get just looking at this from one interpretation or stand point – the extraction industry standpoint – which is surely a valid one, but the there is usually not just one explanation for any geological occurrence. But, there IS a tendency to just keep picking the one that works for one's purposes – extraction. What about the methane reservoir that BP and others consider under too high of a pressure to tap?


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        • Thad

          VFP—BP is responsible all oil that came out of the well– there was no blow out of the bottom– all the oil came out the wellhead. The only mention of the seep near the wellhead was"no change" the period of monitoring was during the kill phase which would have caused an increased of backpressure– if there was to be observable change it would have been then–There are many forms of seeps saltwater, gas, oil, combination of all three–even asphalt(La Brea in Cal and one Trinidad Is.)
          Many things affect the seep flow,source pressure, season, moon cycle – tidal pull, tectonics. These seeps do not contribute significantly to total in the gulf. Seeps occur on land–Drake discovery well in Penn was digging up an oil seep.
          Seeps are not large enough to reduce formation by any measureable amount- Conversely the unrestricted flow at the wellhead during the blow-out was large enough to have decreased the pressure at any near seeps.
          You can cross reference what the oil industry says by uaing other sources–NOAA, NCR, and others–

          Pls elaborate on " What about the methane reservoir that BP and others consider under too high of a pressure to tap?" Who, when commented- location of – what pressures– that sort of thing– Lots of time what is said is overstated so when they do it– bigger brag factor– If the demand is there – the profit is there –it will be done– 20yrs ago they said it was impossible dril down turn bore 90 degrees an drill the drainsection 12 mile —


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Thad, i mean the bottom of the ocean floor where the wellhead is, not the bottom of the well itself. Yes, thx, Thad, i understand seeps, but my question was essentially, are you saying that this seep contributed significantly to the oil spill, not how seeps work?


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              And, if BP is responsible for cleaning up all the oil, that at least, came out of the wellhead, then why is that not happening? Any ideas. There is a tar mat on the ocean floor and still lots of tar in the inland grasses for starters. Just sitting there. Well documented. Photographed. Measured. Yet, not cleaned up.


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Well, Thad, in my humble opinion, it still is impossible to dril down turn bore 90 degrees an drill the drainsection 12 mile, but, they do it anyway. I would define "possible" to include being able to do it without any negative consequences. As it stands, it is half done. It will be complete when they can do it responsibly. I can also jump off a roof. It's possible. But, it's not recommended until i can also fly.


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            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Thad, here is an example of why the public, including myself, thinks the BP oil spill was not an ordinary rig that happened to be in deep water as you suggest it was, but was indeed, a state of the art deep water well under high pressure, and involving a methane pocket of extreme pressure, had an explosion and massive fire on the rig caused by a blowout at the wellhead below on the ocean floor, that the poorly constructed concrete plugs may have helped create, but, were certainly not the sole cause of. This is a National Geographic article. Now i'm not saying they are telling the truth, but, all in all, they aren't known to be exaggerators and tend to do more research for their articles than many reporters.

              http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/2010/10/gulf-oil-spill/bourne-text

              So, when so much of what you say downplays and counters articles like these that the general public read, i wonder why such a discrepancy. Did NG fail to talk to the right people before writing their story?


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              • Thad

                You nailed–"NG fail to talk to the right people before writing their story"
                Publosher tend to stay with in house writers -sadly then don't always understand or know enough to understand what they are writting about. You yourself used the term "concrete" which you probanby read– concrete is not used, it is cement mixed with aggregates – gravel- that could not be pumped at high pressure. What is used is only cement. One well known author writer suggested cement failed because not enough time allowed for it to "dry" neither cement nor concrete set by drying but by a exothermic chemical reaction—
                So a lot of mis-information some from lack of knowledge-some for sensationalism BUT once in print – TV – internet it becaused carved in stone as the gospel–


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                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  Thad, i used the term "concrete" because i often inflate the two. It is my own error. I didn't read it. But, really, this is nitpicking isn't it? That i may interchange two related manmade moldable, heavy, hardening materials used for plugging holes is not the issue of misunderstanding who is responsible for the BP disaster and what to do about it. Those laying the cement needed the information and they had it. They used cement, ALTERED the formula as you said. The plugs failed, many believe, due to the alteration. And, then i would finish the sentence with the left out information – given the pressure at the wellhead. The plugs could have worked if the pressure had been less. But, regardless, plugs fail often, yet, the rigs don't explode and the largest oil spill in US history doesn't occur just because of a gusher. Gushers have been happening for a long time now, as you know. How about actually reading the article i provided for you before dismissing these authors and lumping them into some general category that they are lazy. You asked me to provide it, so i did. I think you will actually agree with nearly all of it. I offer it as a summary of what i think you are trying to say so that i can understand. The mention of methane hydrates is very small and doesn't derail industry interpretation that too much methane ain't the problem.


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                  • Thad

                    VFO it is an issue when those writing present themselves as knowing when they don't.
                    Your use may have have been unintentional, Fine.Their use was in ignorance-
                    Plugs are tested to a higher pressure than they will be subjected to in use. If they pass test they will not fail at a lesser pressure–
                    No plugs do not fail all the time because it is the standard of responsible company to recement and retest until passing test..AND gusher don't happen all the time and rigs do not explode all the time.
                    The high gas content did not cause the blow out only accelerated it coming up the wellbore-. The gas hydrates you refer to were out side the well and post blow-out and had nothing to do with causing blow-out –did not exist prior to blow-out. The accumulation in the "TopHat" cap was also after blow out– control problem yes–but not causal–
                    With all the comment pls repost the links you to make sure I read–


                    Report comment

            • Thad

              Nothing can be done with out trying. The best calcuations and plans are made from all the information available and then the try is made.
              It was possible to put a man on the moon and bring him, all the calculation and information show– BUT it was not an absolute until done—
              Every endeavor has dangers and the know dangers are planned for and hoe to avoid or survive… still unknown/ unexpected events happen and a disaster–
              The Space program the both deeply and detailed engineer and managed program attempted by man– and how many did we lose—?


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              • Radio VicFromOregon

                Absolutely, Thad, but, some people do feel an obligation to reduce those negatives as much as possible while others allow economics to define how thorough and diligent they MUST be because government or the public will FORCE them to be responsible. Historically, the hydrocarbon industry has a bit of a spotted record on this. It is assume that humanity had no other option but to go down the path of hydrocarbon extraction for energy that it took or remain in an undesirable state of affairs. I've always seen this as a rationale rather than as an actual investigated and analyzed theory. The choice wasn't nothing or coal, or nothing or oil or nothing or nuclear. Those were false choices made over and over, and to make them, many of the negatives had to be ignored "for the sake of progress". These are all excuses, rationales, not fact, in my opinion. We took the paths we took because they were expedient, had the ear of someone in a position to decide, had the political power to prevent the alternative developments from competing, not because they were the only ones. Allowing the Captains of Industry to determine the path humanity took was but one direction we could have taken. We could easily have had an economy and lifestyle based upon renewal energy, Tesla electrics, passive solar housing…a very different world…the one many are trying to bring about now in the face of heavy opposition from the hydrocarbon and nuclear energy industries.


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                • Thad

                  VFO — The BP disaster was manmade through negligence.
                  If standard oil field safe operating practices had been followed there would have been no blow out- no disaster. There was nothing in the type or pressure of the formation that made the disaster inevitable.
                  This is something that those whose agenda is to stop all drlg, or all offshore drld do not understand or it they do- do not want to accept.
                  Drlg can and has been done safely– with the proper oversight and regulation it can be safer-There are only two things that will stop or greatly reduce oil drlg –run out of or displace use of oil with an economical substitute. The effort to stop all offshore drlg is wasted- will fail – economics and politics– it would accomplish much more to push for safer drlg – a mission that can be acheived-
                  In the case of the BP disaster the simple requirement that all cement plugs with no exceptions had to be tested and recemented if necessary until passing test. Witnessed by a BOERME inspector- there would have been no blow out. Design work IS being done of better subsea controls and BOPs–


                  Report comment

          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Thad, as i look for articles on the methane you asked me for, this official report, while only focusing on oil flow rates but mentions the gas, is interesting in that the assumption of the BP well blowout, was not a blowout at all, but an explosion on the rig which damaged the riser, but it does refer to the well as a deepwater well.


            Report comment

            • Radio VicFromOregon

              K, Thad, here's as good an example as any. This is a wikipedia summary – they also deal with the explosion on the rig, but, suggest that high methane pressure had unexpectedly forced oil through the riser pipe, and then all the subsequent disaster, the failed attempts to cap the well, including those pesky methane hydrates that someone just recently posted saying they don't exist in the Gulf of Mexico, wasn't you, right? The methane hydrates interfered with the dome idea in the early days of trying to collect the oil instead of capping the well with a broken riser pipe.
              Not in this article, but, you may recall some concern voiced about cutting the riser pipe to make a clean angle and what about all the methane, will it ignite, and the discussions about a lack of oxygen underwater so no chance of igniting is possible, etc. All public discussion.
              During this discussion, which was happening in the news, and in meetings, and just about everywhere about the methane hydrates and the rumors by rig workers of methane coming up the riser, there was lots of speculation about the size of the methane pocket and any potential influence it could have beyond the high pressure to the oil that it was already adding.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill


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  • VanneV anne

    Replacing Nuclear Power Plants in Germany
    “…British Petroleum’s push to develop Abiotic natural gas in the Gulf of Mexico by the explosion of a nuclear bomb 6 miles under the alluvial fan of the Mississippi River August 19 2009 led to the blow out eight months later. There have been fifteen or more such explosions at depth under the Gulf of Mexico. The floor of the Gulf is leaking hydrocarbons in many areas. All the petroleum companies are positioning themselves to supply natural gas for the turbines….”
    http://educate-yourself.org/zsl/germanynuclearenergyphaseout30may11.shtml

    Here is a USGS map of the alluvial fan basin of the Mississippi. It is out in the GOM:
    Gulf of Mexico – Mississippi Fan
    http://coastalmap.marine.usgs.gov/ArcIMS/Website/usa/GoMex/flplatform/msfan/viewer.htm

    Here is the quotation from that article:
    “The radioactivity in the petroleum, fall-out from the August 19 2009 nuclear blast 10 kilometres under the alluvial fan of the Mississippi will also be transmuted by the bacteria. In biological systems radioactivity drops fifteen times faster than in a test tube. ..”

    To reiterate “2009 nuclear blast 10 kilometres under the alluvial fan of the Mississippi…”


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    • FREEDOMROX

      No disrespect intended, but this is unsubstantiated, and no real source given. It would not surprise me, but just conjecture at this point.
      It is very true that bacteria that thrives on hydrocarbons would have in time cleaned up the Gulf, but now with Corexit 9500, then doubtful for many years to come. Much of the actual crude is laying in state on the bottom and much was dispersed over a much wider area.
      THe myriad sicknesses reported all along the coast are a sign of just how toxic this is. THere were so many other, safer dispersants to use, but BP went ahead anyhow and flipped everyone else off.
      Sickening.


      Report comment

    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Anne what is that article you just quoted from? Is that the article from that online science mag? For some reason, i thought the nuking was done in the 80's, pre-Clinton.


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  • VanneV anne

    Transmutation on the Ocean Bottom
    June 20, 2011
    “With the large releases of methane under the Gulf of Mexico by deep drilling and nuclear fracking of the basalt plain large quantities of methane ice have piled up on the bottom. Given time the bacteria will eat all the methane keeping the Gulf deep waters cool and making a lot of fish food. The use of Corexit emulsifier sinking the red coloured petroleum to the bottom will in time be transmuted by the bacteria.
    “The radioactivity in the petroleum, fall-out from the August 19 2009 nuclear blast 10 kilometres under the alluvial fan of the Mississippi will also be transmuted by the bacteria. In biological systems radioactivity drops fifteen times faster than in a test tube.
    “The practise of the US Navy to drop decommissioned nuclear reactors in the ocean depths may be the best solution for long term elimination of such materials. The bacteria eats the iron into “rusticles” as seen on the Titanic at 10,000 feet deep and transmutes toxic radioactive elements fifteen times faster than in underground bunkers….”
    http://educate-yourself.org/zsl/transmutationoean20jun11.shtml


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    • Thad

      "–fall-out from the August 19 2009 nuclear blast 10 kilometres under the alluvial fan of the Mississippi–"
      Pls could post some other documentation?

      How were they able to drill 10 km–32,808' A world record for the US area — the rigs capable, there are only 4 and are huge. And how was it was done in secret?

      How did they "blind" the world's various different government and scientific system of seismic sensors.. No such event recorded at USGS. Why did we the beople of the gulf feel it?
      Why no world out-cry "US war mongers violates Nuclear treaty"


      Report comment

      • richard richard

        Thanks Thad, fully valid questions. I did tend to wonder about the depth stated… no small feat.

        It would seem the GOM nuke meme is growing :(


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Well, i recall the blast in the 80's and the news coverage. So, at least one underground nuke happened after the 70's. The nuclear test ban treaty is regards to above ground testing and development, not civil use, so i think we are starting to mix apples and oranges. As far as i know, companies could dump nuke waste into the ocean up until the 90's under Clinton, so i don't think that there was much concern by governments about "the people" being upset. With the break up of the Soviet Union, with whom the US had the SALT treaties, not all US Presidents have honored or interpreted the need for such a ban. In fact, Reagan and later W. Bush made it pretty publicly clear that they had no intention of honoring the ban because they felt it weakened the US.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          richard, a lot has gotten added on, i think. But, i do recall it making the news and watching the reporter discuss, however, briefly. But, my recall is that was in the 80's, it was a shallow detonation, miles, but not 10, and, of course, once again, no risk to the public. I remember it because of the concern about weakening the Alluvial Plain. But, 2 articles were here on enenews about it, too. One was a link to science mag i can't find yet proposing that the radiation has lessened enough to use it now. It was just before Hurricane Sandy on enenews. We need the archivist. Maybe i can figure out how to use it. It's amazing how much falls out of the news after time. I remember one day reading about Honduras and Nicaragua and US soldiers and death squads killing nuns, then not a single article or news story every again until Iran-Contra broke. It was as if our war down there wasn't even taking place. I can do a word search one time and use the same words 3 hours later and get completely different results and never get find the first results. I've just learned results are based as much on my alleged buying preferences and personal profile cookies as it is about the content i'm looking for so maybe the search engine gets confused. Sometimes, though, i remember to use my search history, though not everything is always there.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Richard, Anne found links for the 5 detonations. They were in the 60's ad 70's and not the 80's as i had thought.

          Nuclear Fracking!
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b1ZJ_DyDBns

          Atomic Journeys: Mississippi segment
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIw0RU4JFOA


          Report comment

          • richard richard

            thanks for all this. wow..

            i suppose one reason why i find some things hard to believe, is they're unbelievable! Like, the mentallity of some people who think of crazy ways to brutalise Earth for the sake of fuel/energy, on such a massive scale. Not just in this case, many other instances come to mind also.

            it gets beyond me to even consider some possibilities, let alone enact them.

            oh, and then the byproduct of such a fuel.. dispursing radiactive trace elements across the globe in atomised carbon exhaust – brilliant!. Not.

            i can't believe i'm related to some of these 'people', in some obscure ways. sheesh.


            Report comment

            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Hey, richard, how goes it on the uranium mining, speaking of brutalizing the Earth.


              Report comment

              • richard richard

                You know Vic, I wish I could say it was all called off. Actually, for my state, the issue is about the threat of lifting the moratorium, so for New South Wales, it is frozen.

                The recent rally was to remind politicians that the people want to moratorium to remain in place.

                But you are right in questioning the abuse of Earth from the Australian mining industry. That being said, I wasn't focusing n anyone nation with my comment above, so if you feel I was being discriminatory I did not intend to be, I hope I didn't cause offense.


                Report comment

      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Thad, Bush rescinded the nuclear test ban treaty in order to build the small nuke weapons and the depleted uranium casings for starters. So, the US IS in violation of the test ban treaty.


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  • VanneV anne

    Could The Gulf Of Mexico Oil Spill Cause A Massive Earthquake Along The New Madrid Fault Line?

    “…Well, a retired Texaco geologist-geophysicist named Jack M. Reed who has been studying the geology of the Gulf of Mexico for over 40 years believes that the Gulf of Mexico is currently tectonically active.

    “In fact, Reed believes that it is the Gulf of Mexico that is the likely origin for New Madrid seismic activity.

    “According to Reed, there is evidence that the New Madrid seismic zone is directly connected with geological features in the Gulf of Mexico….

    "’This northeast trending earthquake zone appears to connect with the northeast trending Monroe Uplift, the LaSalle Arch and, possibly, to an active seismic zone located in and around Sabine Lake on the Texas-Louisiana border.’

    “Not only that, but Reed believes that the key to unlocking the mystery behind the New Madrid fault zone lies in examining the "deeply buried tectonics" in the Gulf….

    "’This entire zone through the United States is suffering some type of tectonic activity that I believe is tied to the deeply buried tectonics in the Gulf of Mexico.’

    “So has BP disturbed those "deeply buried tectonics" by drilling such a deep well?…”
    http://thisistheendoftheworldasweknowit.com/archives/could-the-gulf-of-mexico-cause-a-massive-earthquake-along-the-new-madrid-fault-line


    Report comment

    • Thad

      Reed has very few peer that consider there to ne any validity to his theories..

      Note – the BP well at MC-252 was not a deep well just a well drilled in deep water. The well 12,936 ft total depth from mean sea level was only 8,048 ft below sea bed. Well deeper than that below the EARTH surface are quite the norm.


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  • VanneV anne

    BP NUCLEAR OPTION Spells Mega-Disaster For Gulf Of Mexico
    “…Let’s review some of these before BP finishes the relief wells, which are allegedly being utilized for the strategic placement and detonation of a nuclear device….”
    http://phoenixrisingfromthegulf.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/bp-nuclear-option-spells-mega-disaster-for-gulf-of-mexico/


    Report comment

    • VanneV anne

      This suggestion was made recently on enenew.com
      owlafaye
      November 13, 2012 at 1:29 pm
      “A small nuclear device 1000+ ft. down will stop the Big Hum.
      “The problem is big government however. They do not know how to react to catastrophes. The sure know how to talk about them for years and years however. All the finger pointing delays solutions also.
      “It is a matter of moving in quickly, controlling the situation and then the sending out of bills.”
      http://enenews.com/coast-guard-oil-spotted-floating-off-louisiana-near-same-location-as-well-blowout-reported-by-noaa-last-week
      When I read this suggestion, I wondered if this is information being leaked because this has already been tried.


      Report comment

      • Thad

        The USSR tried twice, result marginal.
        "I wondered if this information is being leaked because this has already been tried." No.
        The last underground nuke explosion for the US was in '92-the last in the world was in China '96. The system of seismic sensors around the world are such that that both governmental and scientiic organazations would know instantly. Remember the USGS read the earthquake and tsunami that hit Ache Indonesia on sensors in the US in real time.
        Scientists would be reporting location and the fact it was not a 'quake
        Governments would be screaming trety violation…


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  • VanneV anne

    A pond turns into a huge sinkhole
    3 days ago, Reuters Videos
    “A massive sinkhole in the U.S. state of Ohio has demolished part of a state highway and is dangerously close to nearby houses. Lily Grimes reports.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/video/pond-turns-huge-sinkhole-153753636.html


    Report comment

    • Thad

      ANNE research the "sinkhole" in OHIO is not a sinkhole. There a lake beside the road and in it a sand dredge which dredged to close to the road–and icaved off– a "landslip". Media seem to love the word "sinkhole" and used it in their reporting but a sink hole by definition is all the way around and the content sunk downward– this landslip is open on the lake side –the bank just caved off all the way to the road–


      Report comment

      • I don't wish to be disputatious, but every news site I have checked is saying this is a sink hole. It MAY have been triggered by dredging, but a hole is a hole. One source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/ohio-sinkhole_n_2218187.html

        “I'm not sure what to make of it. I’ve never seen anything like this before in my life,” said Jennifer Smith of Dover, according to Fox Cleveland.

        The stretch of highway remains closed indefinitely, WTRF reports.


        Report comment

        • Radio VicFromOregon

          cb, collapsed ground, for whatever reason, that has a hollow feature beneath the top layer, and whose hollowness in some way contributed to the collapse, is commonly referred to as a sinkhole in the media in my experience. Whether technically correct or just an easy way for the public to grasp the image of a large, unexpected collapsing of ground that leaves a big scary looking hole, i don't know. They are not necessarily expected to continue sinking unless something like an underground stream is causing beneath ground-level saturation as the primary cause. The "sinking" is the collapse of the top layer, not necessarily the cause of the hollow in these cases. The cause doesn't HAVE to be naturally occuring for the media to use the term sinkhole. Was this technically more a manmade landslide than a sinkhole if it was simply bank that gave way or did bank give way to reveal a side section view of a sinkhole?


          Report comment

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Wow..I found the actual document rather juicy..

    Notice of Levy of Civil Penalty Fourth Amend.to Declaration of Emergency and Directive-OxyGeimar No.3.

    Please note on page 2..the directive to Texas Brine..as to necessary actions to address the potential danger to human life.

    http://www.edsuite.com/proposals/proposals_280/dnr_order,_office_of_conservation_fines_texas_brine_fi_531.pdf


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  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    To those that have kept an open mind about my thoughts in that I believe some of the butane and propane caverns were compromised before the sinkhole occured and were contributing to the sinkhole situation and bubbeling in the bayous. Look at this report and explain to me how (besides the obvious naturally occuring methane) the butane and propane showed up on this sinkhole material test done by an independent company hired by the state of Louisianna.
    http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/OC/BC_All_Updates/DATA_SAMPLING/20120906IsotechDataAnalysisReportDNR.pdf
    Both butane and propane (both derived from natural gas) are a refined / manufactured petroleum byproduct – NOT NATURALLY OCCURING


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    • Thad

      TM2020- did you read the bottom of page where the defination of measurements are noted–

      "Mol. % is approximately equal to vol. %."

      Butane was 0.11 to 0.847%
      Propane was 0.076 to 0.737%
      None even a full 1.0% while the methane is 88.0% and you think this indicates other caverns are breached?

      But you are correct butane and propane do not occur in nature–
      BUT both do occur in petroleum sourced methane —


      Report comment

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    Here comes bucky, I mean Thaddy lol


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  • VanneV anne

    Earthquake-Causing Fracking to Be Allowed within 500 FEET of Nuclear Plants
    “Indeed, the fuel pools and rods at Fukushima appear to have “boiled”, caught fire and/or exploded soon after the earthquake knocked out power systems. See this, this, this, this and this. And fuel pools in the United States store an average of ten times more radioactive fuel than stored at Fukushima, have virtually no safety features, and are vulnerable to accidents and terrorist attacks. And see this.
    “Indeed, American reactors may be even more vulnerable to earthquakes than Fukushima.
    “But American nuclear ‘regulators’ have allowed numerous nuclear power plants to be built in earthquake zones (represented by black triangles in the following diagram):

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/10/earthquake-producing-fracking-to-be-allowed-within-500-feet-of-nuclear-plants.html


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    • Sickputer

      Lots of nuclear fuel and waste at both Japan and America:

      "For instance, the pool at the Vermont
      Yankee reactor, a BWR Mark I, currently holds nearly
      three times the amount of spent fuel stored at Dai-Ichi's
      crippled Unit 4 reactor. The Vermont Yankee reactor
      also holds about seven percent more radioactivity than
      the combined total in the pools at the four troubled
      reactors at the Fukushima site."

      U.S. reactors have generated about 65,000
      metric tons of spent fuel, of which 75 percent is stored
      in pools, according to Nuclear Energy Institute data.
      Spent fuel rods give off about 1 million rems (10,00Sv)
      of radiation per hour at a distance of one foot — enough
      radiation to kill people in a matter of seconds. There are
      more than 30 million such rods in U.S. spent fuel pools.
      No other nation has generated this much radioactivity
      from either nuclear power or nuclear weapons productivity."

      http://www.ips-dc.org/files/3200/spent_nuclear_fuel_pools_in_the_US.pdf

      [Page 5 of 36]


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      • Sickputer

        Japan has been no slouch either on racking up huge stockpiles of fuel and waste:

        " As of 2009 Japan produces about 1,000 tons of spent nuclear fuel, including uranium and plutonium, a year. The amount of plutonium possessed by Japan both at home and abroad is 31.8 tons.

        As of the end of 2004, Japan had a stockpile of 43.1 tons of plutonium, up 2.3 tons from 2003, and 110 tons of unprocessed nuclear fuel rods, containing plutonium. Of the 43.1 tons of plutonium, 5.7 tons are kept in Japan and 37.4 tons are kept in Britain and France; 29.3 tons are fissionable.

        Japan has a stockpile of 30 tons of plutonium on its soil. Most of it is fissile plutonium from spent nuclear fuel rods that accumulates at a rate of about a half a ton a year. Of the 30 tons, 14 tons is from France and 11.4 tons is from Britain. The two countries have sent their plutonium to Japan to be recycled. Japan has been sharply criticized for accepting plutonium transported on ship from other countries."

        http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=845&catid=23&subcatid=152


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  • VanneV anne

    STOP FRACKING AND SAVE OUR WATER, AIR, AND LAND!
    “…many of the target "plays" for fracking, deep underground, themselves have naturally-occurring radioactive materials (NORMs) far in excess of safe levels….”
    http://nofracking.com/


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  • VanneV anne

    Drilling at Rulison
    “DENVER June 4, 2005 (AP) – A company says it plans to drill for natural gas near the site of an underground nuclear blast nearly four decades ago, despite opposition from local residents and the concerns of Energy Department officials.

    “Presco Inc., based in the Houston area, had received permission from county commissioners to drill one well inside a state-imposed buffer zone around Project Rulison in western Colorado.

    “Project Rulison was part of a federal project to explore peaceful uses for nuclear devices. The Atomic Energy Commission detonated a 43-kiloton bomb at the site in 1969 to free gas below the surface.

    ‘But local officials withdrew their support of Presco's drilling project this week after learning that Presco planned to drill four wells inside the buffer zone….”
    http://richlabonte.net/exonews/xtra/urban_blight.htm


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  • VanneV anne

    Colorado Supreme Court considers Rulison drilling
    Deciding whether residents have right to demand hearing on proposal to drill for natural gas near radioactive site
    http://www.postindependent.com/article/20111201/VALLEYNEWS/111139997

    BLM OKs nearly 80 new gas wells near Project Rulison nuclear blast site
    http://coloradoindependent.com/44634/blm-oks-nearly-80-new-gas-wells-near-project-rulison-nuclear-blast-site

    Legal fallout from nuclear bomb frack job reaches Colorado Supreme Court
    Citizen activist groups opposed to oil and gas drilling eye key decision
    http://coloradoindependent.com/107333/legal-fallout-from-nuclear-bomb-frack-job-reaches-colorado-supreme-court

    http://coloradoindependent.com/107333/legal-fallout-from-nuclear-bomb-frack-job-reaches-colorado-supreme-court


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  • crystalwind crystalwind

    Assumption Parish asks TB to pay for resident relocation or buyout.

    http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/author/assumptionla/


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  • crystalwind crystalwind

    "OEP is currently receiving inquiries regarding a loud noise near the command post just minutes ago." I didn't know a truck tire (they say)blowing out could be so loud. And…"Comments closed" for this post? Does anyone know if that's true or is the methane/nat. gas starting to go?

    http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/1115-a-m-inquiries-regarding-loud-noise-near-command-post/


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  • FREEDOMROX

    This has got to be the ongest thread in ENEnews history…lol


    Report comment

    • Maggie123

      Freedomrox – Butterfly effect :)
      One evening one guy wanders a block or two along a highway shoulder at dusk. He films a bit of what appears in the film as a relatively quiet normal-looking body of water, gets in his car, drives away, posts the film, and … !! I've been bemused myself! :)


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    • crystalwind crystalwind

      @FR: Sure seems to be! I also posted the loud noise link on the OT thread. Just to confuse things….

      @jh76: gotcha!

      @Thad: Thanks!


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  • Thad

    Pardon my gruffness– age and too long working as boss with men you had to be gruff with– need to step back a little. And need to realise I try to communicate with people who have never to any great degree be exposed to drlg, oilfield related sciences. LOL should try it in a third world where a wheel barrow is an amazing tool and communication is a Big Ceif Tablet and a fat pencil..

    PEACE


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  • FREEDOMROX

    Yes, THAD, SYNTHIA IS A MYTH! Just look at this E Coli based material biological Frankenstein admitted to by Mr. Venter and also claims to have a hold as a lobbyist on Capitol Hill, and proclaim it is still a myth!

    http://www.syntheticgenomics.com/products/

    SGI is currently working in three broad projects areas of Renewable Fuels and Chemicals (alliance with ExxonMobil Research and Engineering Company to develop algal biofuels), Microbial-Enhanced Hydrocarbon Recovery (collaboration with BP), and Sustainable Agricultural Products (through the company, Agradis which was jointly formed with Plenus SA de CV). Specifically we are:

    ■Designing metabolic pathways for the production of biochemicals and next generation biofuels from a variety of feedstocks
    ■Developing biological solutions to increase the conversion and recovery rates of subsurface hydrocarbons
    ■Developing advanced plant feedstocks and microbial agents for agriculture

    http://www.syntheticgenomics.com/what/

    Ignorance is no longer an excuse Thad….you are an apologist and an enabler of surfactant tech that has already been in use in the Gulf. Congressional documents prove this, so why would you lie outright here?

    Genetic and DNA manipulation of the environment on a global scale is this company's stted purpose. PERIOD!


    Report comment

  • FREEDOMROX

    Nevermind, you have already stated that it would be easier to speak to people in a Third World Country, that you know suffer from ignorance, than to battle the truth in a First World Country you have helped be reduced to a Third World Country.

    I hope your conscience allows you great latitude, for myself, I could not bear knowing I have done the things you have done to others environments.

    Also, as I suspected, you never rose much above a Drill Man, or a Tool Man. That speaks volumes….a tool.


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  • Thad

    My apology to all for unleashing such a vicious commenter upon you–
    I'm a bit blunt/ gruff and do come down hard on repeating mis-information or lack of knowledge or facts and failing to research–And I do accept the same in return when appropiate.
    "FreedomRox" has commented some 30 times and of those 12 included personal attacks directly at me starting with his very first reply to something I posted. Regretable a few time I stooped as low and replied in kind.
    Again my apology- I do hope to have contributed some useful information-


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  • CharlesW

    This sinkhole is a scary situation here in the Louisiana area. I will be in the sinkhole (Bayou Corne) area again soon. I will be capturing some HD footage of the sinkhole. I am also reporting on this News story for a radio show out of Fresno, California. I will update you on this important News Story by providing you with NEW HD videos soon. As you can see this sinkhole is ONLY 60 miles from the Waterford 3 Nuclear Power Plant here in Louisiana!

    http://youtu.be/KGgfGf6vsTo


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  • CharlesW

    Louisiana sinkhole up close in HD! December 7, 2012 (TODAY) HIGH DEFINITION footage! NOTE: A few people (possibly multiple accounts don't want me to report this news story) Very aggressive individuals with some uknown agenda and or reason(s). They post harassing replies towards me and break the rules listed on this site. I inform my viewers that numerous government agencies are working in the sinkhole area and they are helping people in the community! Not sure if the individuals harassing me have ties to certain organization(s) and or possibly work for the company involved in what has occured in the sinkhole area. Government reps are now monitoring some of the postings here. So if you see any derrogatory comments posted be aware of what is occurring. This is a video link directly related to the subject posted here (Louisiana sinkhole) NO spam! For those that are interested in what is occurring in the sinkhole area I am providing you up close HD footage! Thanks! http://youtu.be/iBDUNg_s5C0


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