Asahi Reporter: Tepco graph shows spike above 90°C at Reactor No. 2 — Exactly how high have temperatures gone?

Published: February 12th, 2012 at 8:21 am ET
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Title: (Updated) TEPCO Press Conference on Reactor 2 RPV Temperature
Source: EX-SKF
Date: Saturday, February 11, 2012
Emphasis Added

(Updated) TEPCO Press Conference on Reactor 2 RPV Temperature 

[...]

(There are many reporters this time…)

[...]

Asahi Shinbun’s reporter asked how high exactly the temperature went, as the graph seemed to show the spike above 90 degrees Celsius.

Matsumoto answered the graph is plotting all the 1-second readings from the digital display, not visually verified by the workers. The official reporting is every 6 hours, the reference reporting is every hour.

SOURCE: EX-SKF

[...]

Q: Why has the temperature started to vary widely since noon?
A: We don’t quite know.

Q: When will you get back to the normal operation under the safety regulations?
A: To do it, we have to make sure it is the instrument failure.

Q: Does the instrument failure have to do with the variance?
A: It’s not that the instrument failure started today, but it may have started late January when this thermometer started to behave differently from the other two at the bottom of the RPV.

[...]

Q: Why did you start mentioning “instrument failure” only when the temperature started to approach 80 degrees Celsius?
A: We didn’t think it was behaving erratically. The variance of 1 degrees was understood. The trend changed at the end of January. Also, the temperature remained high as more water accumulate inside the RPV, therefore the instrument failure more likely.

A: We want to see if it is possible to have the instrument failure where the temperature drops, instead of going up.

A: The Containment Vessel is still hot and humid, so we have to make sure the other instruments [with temperatures remaining in the 30s?] are working properly. At this point, we don’t have better alternatives.

[...]

Q: Why are you increasing the amount of water if you think it is the instrument failure? What do you think of the safety regulations?
A: We have always informed the NISA and followed the safety regulations. (No answer on why they are increasing water.)

[...]

Read the full report here

Published: February 12th, 2012 at 8:21 am ET
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  1. Tepco: 91.2°C at Reactor No. 2 — Reporter suspicious of instrument failure claim since it’s steadily rising in small increments February 12, 2012
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  3. Off the Scale: Reactor No. 2 temperature exceeded 400°C — Tepco says device broken — Reporter asks about recriticality February 13, 2012
  4. Asahi: Reactor No. 2 temperature stays high despite Tepco’s stabilization effort — Was back up to 72°C February 8, 2012
  5. NHK: More than half of thermometers in Reactor 2 not working — Tepco will start ‘start measuring temperatures again by late July’ — High humidity inside reactor blamed June 2, 2012

39 comments to Asahi Reporter: Tepco graph shows spike above 90°C at Reactor No. 2 — Exactly how high have temperatures gone?

    • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

      Getting too hot? Take two aspirin and call a doctor in the morning. So far, that is about all they have done, so it should be good go to for another Billion years or so..

      They will have to stack the 1000 high level radiation water tanks about 10 high to get through the next 10 years.

      What is another 10,000 'emergency' water tanks, all full of high level radioactive waste?

      Total Fukushima Radiation Released Into Ocean, Air, Groundwater, Storage Tanks; via A Green Road Blog http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/02/total-fukushima-radiation-released-into.html


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  • Misitu

    atomfritz has an interesting explanation of the behaviour of the temperature readings, assuming that we accept a working instrument, and on the events that have led up to this issue. For details see source ex-SKF as listed above. Sorry, not needing to double refer but I myself don’t always chase up things with a bit of effort needed to do so, unless someone adds a pointer. Cheers; M


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    • aigeezer aigeezer

      I can’t see it, Misitu. I just see Mochizuki’s comment about the 1 hour reporting. Could you help me find it, please, with more detailed instruction or a link?


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      • Misitu

        HI aigeezer

        check this link please

        http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2012/02/tepco-press-conference-on-reactor-2-rpv.

        and scroll down to the comment that begins, "Atomfritz said…

        Yes, it's more convenient to state an instrumentation failure than the factual possibility that the corium grains now have been become dislodged and concentrated on several spots."

        He's following this up on Physics Forums with some success and there are a couple of academic papers about the potential for recriticality in BWRs.

        Sorry for the earlier inconvenience
        M


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  • aigeezer aigeezer

    “…the graph is plotting all the 1-second readings from the digital display, not visually verified by the workers. The official reporting is every 6 hours, the reference reporting is every hour.”

    Nothing is real until it is “official” and verified by a bureaucracy.

    Tepco is uncharacteristically late to play the “instrument failure” card this time. It could be true of course, but it certainly doesn’t seem to fit the circumstances.

    I have no idea what “visually verified by the workers” might mean regarding temperature readings. Does a worker look over at building 2 and say “yes, it’s hot”? Does a worker look at the display chart and say “yes, it’s spiky”? Does a worker look at numbers and say “the boss isn’t going to like this”?…

    They bob, they weave. The more they talk, the less we know.


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  • someone

    How can possibly broken thermometer show higher temperature than it is?


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  • or-well

    Paging Dr. Tepco! Code 1Fuku2!

    Have you got insurance? Well never mind -
    just say “Ahhh” and grab your behind,
    hold this thermometer under your tongue,
    please bend over, now cough, try to run…
    Place this BACK again under your tongue -
    I wiped it on my smock, don’t worry,
    please do as your told I’m in a hurry -
    well who needs an exam, I see you’re a wreck
    - let me feel the lump on your neck -
    How ’bout a bleeding – that couldn’t hurt -
    there’s leeches around, outside, in the ditches,
    they’re giant, so after, you will need stitches,
    then when they’re fed, I’ll call them
    “Fresh Catch”,
    down south in Tokyo, much Yen they’ll fetch!
    Stop being big baby! Say Banzai Hai Colonic!
    or I’ll register you as a Hopeless Moronic!
    That’s better, let’s talk
    about nice hot enema,
    behave or I’ll send you to
    Doc Yamashita!


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  • someone

    Interesting that they trust the instrument when they want to announce cold shutdown and don’t trust same instrument when it leads to revoke the cold shutdown.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Less-(Mor)ons speak on how to give your reactor a colonic-style cleaning.

    1: Remove water and wait one day.
    2: Dowse once quickly with water to clear access to your work area.
    3: Add boric acid-based water at highest rate possible.
    4: Await eruption of fickle matter at random.

    Note: If eruption doesn’t occur… clear entire area, and seek out an excavation specialist immeadiatly!

    WARNING!
    Treatment may cause symptoms as follows:
    Irradiations indicate;
    Skin rashes
    metalic taste in mouth / throat
    swelling of throat
    heart failure
    rectal bleeding
    loss of vision
    lung and/or other irritations
    cancers- most types
    bloody welts
    weeping sores
    hair loss
    fatigue
    If you expirience such, consult medical help hastily!
    Other symtoms;
    DEATH
    If you expire…
    consult St. Peter on arrival for dispositional consultation.


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  • Nigwil

    Well the probe is almost certainly a thermocouple tied to a transmitter unit running 0 to 5 volts across the range. So it can fail either short circuit or open circuit. Low/high or high/low depending how the scale is set.

    Since during normal operations (remember the good old times!) those gauges are reporting temperatures like 350C or more it seems that (at 80 to 90C) the gauge is still operating within its viable range. A short or open circuit would see the gauge report either zero/null or full-scale high. We’re not seeing those extremes so looks like its reporting something real. The other two gauges then present a mystery – why are they steady at lower temps?

    But swings of +/- 10C in seconds is strange alright. Bubbles or plumes of hotter water rising from some unmentionable source far below? Drips of hot heavy stuff passing by on the way down?

    The sooner the UN with US, French and Russian know how get Tepco out of the way and start real work on the site the better. Its nothing that all the money in Japan (and a lot of lives too) thrown into the smouldering holes wont fix. Just hope they fix it before the oil runs out.
    http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8933
    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-10/saudis-said-to-ship-all-committed-march-oil-to-japan-china.html


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  • PattieB PattieB

    The one reading high is over the hole out the bottom of the plant… getting hit with steam from corium in ground.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    that reactor has a busted torus… any water that doesn’t go down hole… goes out the torus, and due to corridor connecting all buildings underground… just floods all building basements.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    That’s why the cam-look didn’t find it had water in it… just radioactive rain from condensation.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Remember… they are injecting water backwards into the core via the pipes that once took steam out to the generators… the other 2 thermo fittings are likely to be in the path of the waterfall of incoming coolant.


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  • Increase of the temperature indicator of the upper bottom head of
    the Reactor Pressure Vessel (RPV) of Unit 2
    1. Overview
     On Feb. 2, the temperature indicator of the RPV upper bottom head (0°) started to rise.
     On Feb. 3, we changed the balance of water injection flow (decreasing 2m3/h of the water
    injection through the core spray system and increasing 2m3/h of the injection through the reactor
    feed water system). On Feb. 5 and 6, we separately increased 1m3/h of the water through the
    reactor feed water system.
     On Feb. 7, the temperature rising slowed down and we increase 3m3/h of water through the core
    spray system in order to decrease the temperature indicator surely.
     Since Feb. 7, we monitored the temperature, but on Feb. 11 the temperature indicator rose again
    and therefore we increased 1m3/h of water through the reactor feed water system.
     However the indicators kept increasing and therefore we further increased 3m3/h of the water
    through the core spray system, up to 9.9m3/h on Feb. 12
     Other temperature indicators installed in the RPV and PCV or the temperature indicator of the
    upper part of RPV support skirt junction, which is around the upper bottom head of RPV, tend to …

    http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushima-np/images/handouts_120212_07-e.pdf


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  • PattieB PattieB

    The RPV has no bottom.
    The OPV doesn’t hold water
    The Torus has nice big hole in it… leaking into basements.
    The FLOOR of the OPV has nice hole that the corium made… as it ate it’s way out!
    This was all confirmed via the cam they stuck in there!

    You keep listening to what Tepco hands out xdrfox… and think it’s cold shutdown.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    @xdrfox… your not credible, and insist on carping the Tepco company line… and that’s been proven to be pack of lies… and half-truth. So!… Just why do you bother posting here?

    Nothing along such lines is taken seriously by folks who chat here.
    You blog on stuff that doesn’t inform anyone of the real truth… and fill the entire page with such drivel. Your a shill for the PTB…


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    • VanneV anne

      @PattiB. I thought all along that you are a shill. Attacking xdrfox just shows your true colors. xdrfox just posts news stories. There is no drivel involved. Some of what you post is interesting, some is disinformation. My guess is that you want to take down this website for the sake of Terrrapower.


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    • VanneV anne

      And as all shills your remarks are not directed to a particular post by xdrfox, but just a general statement out of context. If there is a particular post that you are referring to, it might be enlightening. But as it is you are not discussing ideas, but just attacking a person with no substantiating information.


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    • VanneV anne

      Mark 5:9
      And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    When he used a TEPCO hand-out to refute the facts… THAT is by definition, the actions of a shill. HE is the one pushing what TEPCO says… NOT ME.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    Like the results of exposure to plutonium.. I listed… he then said it’s fine to eat plutonium!… and gives tepco-type references?… now, give me a break!

    I was responding to his refute that’s right above me.. is obvious what I’m responding to. But, believe as you like. I’m anti-nuke everything. He’s saying plutonium won’t hurt you. He’s saying the core is intact, and #2 is in fact in cold shutdown. That’s been proven GARBAGE! And by their own cam vids!


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    • VanneV anne

      I’m sorry if I misread you. Usually the reply button is for replying to posts. Where did he say that it is all right to eat plutonium?

      He’s dying of lung cancer. I would cut him some slack if I were you. If you want to criticize him for saying it is o.k. to eat plutonium, then do that at that particular post. I think he might just be hoping that his lung cancer isn’t killing him. We all go through denial as a stage of grief.

      And we all make mistakes from time to time. xdrfox’s posts are usually very informative and give lots of information and documentation of the problems both on the GOM where he has written lots of articles on marine biology. This website was originally Florida Oil Spill Law and many posters were active there before it branched out to the Fukushima disaster.

      Anyway, attack the ideas, not the person. If there are inaccuracies in the TEPCO report point them out. You have quoted TEPCO in the past as well. Sometimes that is the only information we have.

      You may have a secret source of information that is not published on the internet. The rest of us have to go by what we read on the internet.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    His posts have been shut-down on other threads for flooding. You sure you wish to defend him..?


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    • VanneV anne

      xdrfox suffered from exposure to Agent Orange during the Vietnam War and his children are also suffering from that exposure and his son has been a soldier in Iraq. I would think that you would have some common ground to discuss ideas rather than to make a personal attack.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    The only tepco stuff I quote.. is the mimiographed graphs from the actual control room equipment.. I don’t trust a word they speak.

    Other than my own tech know-how from my life and training I trust, is non-pro & non-anti scientists who list-out facts without any agenda, and nothing to gain by lies. I use industry-related stuff… like DOT & ATF working formulas and statments of un-disputed facts.

    I know.. the things and ideas I speak of sound really out there? But, it’s based in things like #3 actual full pre-week operations printout on core, its loading, its output, and position of control rods when power was lost. This isn’t speculation. The numbers don’t lie… and don’t fit with what Tepco says.

    You can’t run a core at 103% while being short 104 entire bundles sitting in it! Not with U-238′s… even adding the MOX… it just doesn’t get the output with the control rods only 1/3 stepped out.

    It’s also.. I have proved where and what them rods in #4 pool are. They even spent time this view looking at what I have been talking about now for months. They said no damage.? Compare the two… damage is quite clear!

    As to the Plutonium health risk… you posted as a reply.. after I did on other thread. I have a habit of not doing the hit reply button on coment, I’ll admit… my bad! :-) I just scroll down and at times.. rant a bit too ! I’m human. Some times… I get upset. But this is the 3rd time he has tried to soft-peddle plutonium.

    I actualy get worked up on that one point alot.


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    • VanneV anne

      I corrected him earlier today on plutonium myself. But he was just quoting wikipedia, not giving his own ideas. People can quote an article and then change their own ideas later. This website is peculiar anyway. You never know if people are real or not, or if they are working for someone or if what they say about themselves is real or not. There are supposed to be people working for the US Army in Florida just stirring the pot. I have thought in the past that he is working for the Admin of this site. And it is possible that this site is being run to look for dissidents rather than to bring the news of this disaster. However, whatever may be the case, this website is our only real chance to find out the news and to work to shut down all nuclear facilities, and I appreciate all the news posted by everyone including xdrfox.

      I posted the same articles in the forum on Effects of Low Ionizing Radiation that I used to counter what xdrfox had quoted on plutonium. When I have to research to answer someone I learn a lot that I wouldn’t know otherwise.

      The person quoted on wikipedia on plutonium and the 26 persons exposed to plutonium during the Manhattan Project turns out to be an industry shill. The problem with wikipedia, if someone edits the articles, I’ve heard that they just delete the edits they don’t like.


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      • VanneV anne

        Jeremy Bernstein’s PLUTONIUM (2007)

        “…The New York Times reported on February 28, 1990, that Wilkinson had been told by his supervisors at Los Alamos that before publishing his paper he should alter the results of his study to please “the customer” (that is, the DOE). After he went ahead and published the article without change, his Los Alamos work was downgraded and subjected to increased levels of internal review, making future research more difficult and publication less likely. In response, Wilkinson resigned. One George Voelz was moved into the position he vacated….”
        http://leroymoore.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/jeremy-bernsteins-plutonium-2007/


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    • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

      How Dangerous Is 400-600 Pounds Of Plutonium Nano Particle Dust Liberated By Fukushima? Via A Green Road Blog http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-dangerous-is-400-600-pounds-of.html


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  • PattieB PattieB

    It’s little things… like the pack-bot anti-bomb robot? The one they sent into the plants? I, MYSELF built that stupid things sub-assemblies while working at POLARIS! & tested it! I know what will and will not make it’s screen frizz… Just how much radiation it takes. I also have explosives Lic… granted by the ATF to work on warheads. I built anti-missle and anti-torpedo defence systems while working @ Lockheed Martin. I worked on missle crew in army, and so I have a fair idea of my facts. I’m trained for nuclear, biological, and chemical attack responce. It was part of my military JOB! post-milt. I work 95-96 @ NASA KSC. And, I’m a computer geek to boot. I will admit… I do not suffer fools for long, and speak my mind.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    I can be a crank old bitch, I will agree to it being a factual assesment! :-)


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    • VanneV anne

      I appreciate that you are on this website. I am learning a lot from your posts. I also learn a lot from xdrfox’s posts. As a researcher for many, many years in another field, I am skeptical of everything anyone says.

      Even if we know someday the exact truth of what is going on in Japan, it won’t protect us from this environmental disaster. We’ll all be lucky to die of something as benign as a stroke.

      Sometimes it seems that we are arguing about the gradations of evil on the part of TEPCO and the nuclear industry and the governments who support the nuclear industry.


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  • PattieB PattieB

    my point is.. as I’ve heard folks come in… and don’t have time or desire to sort-out the drivel… and follow so many links. To my mind… this is a site where folks gather to sort and get the word out to the truth. Now, that being said? The only purpose to posting dis-info… is to shread it, and show how they lied in stating it. The folks who don’t have the background… such dis-info just confuses them. I invite folks to try and find holes in what I state, it makes me dig deeper, and find proofs for my views on what’s going down. But, lets all try to make this info easier for the common folks to assimilate! That’s the biggest complaint I’ve heard about folks stopping for info here.

    It’s this blogs purpose to get the facts out to as many as can be mannaged, isn’t it?


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