BBC: Ukraine “on brink of civil war” — Gov’t: Threats to blow up nuclear plants; Facilities on high alert after seizure of energy ministry (VIDEO)

Published: January 30th, 2014 at 9:08 am ET


CNN, Jan. 30, 2014: [Leonid Kravchuk, Ukraine’s first President after it became independent] addressed a special parliamentary session aimed at seeking a way out of a deepening political crisis. […] “Let’s be honest, the situation is dramatic. Both Ukraine and the world recognize the country is on the brink of civil war,” Kravchuk said.

BBC News, Jan. 29, 2014: Ex-president warns Ukraine ‘on brink of civil war’ […] Catherine Ashton, who is holding talks in Kiev with the president and opposition leaders, said she was shocked by the unrest […]

PenzaNews, Jan. 29, 2014: The Ukrainian Security Service has reported anonymous threats to blow up hydropower and nuclear power plants, which have already tightened security by the order of Energy and Coal Industry Minister Eduard Stavitsky.

VoR, Jan. 29, 2014: The threat of explosions at hydro and nuclear power stations by radicals has sharply increased. […] Ministry of Energy has placed all the energy facilities on high alert.

BBC Monitoring, Moscow Times, Jan. 29, 2014: What the Papers Say, Jan. 29 — Rossiiskaya Gazeta […] Alexander Yemelyanenkov article entitled “Near-nuclear blackmail” says security has been stepped at nuclear facilities in Ukraine amid unrest in the country.

AP, Jan. 25, 2014: Protesters on Saturday morning seized the headquarters of the energy ministry, but left it several hours later. Energy Minister Eduard Stavitskiy was quoted by the Unian news agency as saying that all the country’s nuclear power facilities were put on high alert after the seizure.

VoR columnist Valentin Mandrasescu, Jan. 28, 2014: Storming governmental buildings […] and trying to enter control rooms of nuclear power plants […]

ITAR-TASS, Jan. 28, 2014: Ukrainian minister says state of emergency not ruled out if extremist continues rising — Ukraine’s Minister of Energy and Coal Industry Eduard Stavitsky said Monday he did not rule out a possible introduction of a state of emergency in the country […] Government offices and organizations have been getting anonymous threats of all sorts recently and some of them spoke of a possible seizure of a nuclear power plants in the western Rovno region […] “I see smiles on some of your faces here but I can tell you for sure there’ll be no one to smile out there /should the threats be translated in reality,” Stavitsky said. […] Energy Ministry […] now maintaining full readiness for an assault that might begin anytime.

Watch the BBC’s broadcast here

Published: January 30th, 2014 at 9:08 am ET


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  3. CNN: Urgent – Emergency repairs reported at largest nuclear power plant in Europe — Prime Minister: I know that a nuclear accident has occurred (VIDEO) December 3, 2014
  4. NHK: With support growing for the 0% nuclear power option, gov’t to delay deadline for deciding on an energy policy (VIDEO) August 6, 2012
  5. Fox News: “Attacking some U.S. nuclear plants could be a piece of cake for terrorists… reactors are naked” — Expert: “Meltdown in a matter of minutes” — WFMY: “We are on high alert” (VIDEOS) August 17, 2013

178 comments to BBC: Ukraine “on brink of civil war” — Gov’t: Threats to blow up nuclear plants; Facilities on high alert after seizure of energy ministry (VIDEO)

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    […] Government offices and organizations have been getting anonymous threats of all sorts recently and some of them spoke of a possible seizure of a nuclear power plants in the western Rovno region […] “I see smiles on some of your faces here but I can tell you for sure there’ll be no one to smile out there /should the threats be translated in reality,” Stavitsky said. […] Energy Ministry […] now maintaining full readiness for an assault that might begin anytime.

    Smiling often a response to lies..isn't it?

    • ENENews

      Perhaps the gov't officials mean 'blow up' as a metaphor…

      CNN: Another opposition leader, the Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reforms' Vitali Klitschko, said he and his supporters could not stand behind a move that basically called for an end to protests without real change beyond freeing the 218 activists who the Interior Ministry says have been arrested. "People took to the streets because they want to change the situation," Klitschko said. "A statement, 'We will free people, if they go home' is unacceptable. It cannot be understood. "Today, the key issue is the confrontation between people and government," he said. "Withdrawal of charges and amnesty is not enough."

      Klitschko's brother: “My brother and I are children of Chernobyl and it is part of our history. Today we’re facing really serious issues with nuclear power plants worldwide. Radiation is something you cannot smell, cannot see, cannot feel, cannot touch. It’s out there and could be everywhere. The (effects) of Fukushima will be there for thousands of years. They cannot clean it up just like that. And (the effects) Chernobyl are still being felt. "I’m definitely against nuclear power plants. Germany gave a good example to the world when they made a political decision to get rid of nuclear power plants — to close them and look for alternative energy.”

    • DanielVincentKelley

      Oh YAH! I'm SO SURE it's "radicals" and not GOVERNMENT SPOOKS who are making the threats to blow up nuke plants. Who gains? Who gains by these threats against nuke plants? Do radicals gain? Why would radicals announce their plans, if they planned on blowing up nuke plants? Does the government gain? Yes they do as wealthy people become willing to pay bigger taxes for security, so they don't have to breathe nuke spew. Do the wealthy people care that the tyrants in the government get shredded? Probably not. Do they care that they not be subjected to nuke spew? Definitely. As with all crime, FOLLOW THE MONEY. In this case, the money gained by the nuke threat crime, points at THE GOVERNMENT who are going to beg up some tax dollars justifying it by the threat they invented against the nuke industry.

  • This is the exact type of "weird news" I was referring in my post of yesterday. I don't buy this stuff. Actually, whenever governments use the words "terrorists" or "radicals" these days, it is an unambiguous indicator that the whole story they are telling is most probably nothing than a dirty lie.
    They have successfully conditioned the masses to fall into a fear-driven passive state of mind as soon at these keywords are spoken or written.
    I see absolutely no reason why anyone, even "real" terrorists, would want to sabotage a nucelar power plant. Terrorists are fighting against the economic and political establishment, not against a country's population. Doesn't make sense at all.
    So, are they going to release even more radioactivity into the atmosphere, and blame it on fictious radicals ?

    • tinfoiled tinfoiled

      Well put. In the '50's and the '60's the boogeymen du jour were the "communists". It didn't take long after the breakup of the USSR for the US govt to conjure up a new enemy.

      • ENENews

        "whenever governments use the words "terrorists" or "radicals" these days, it is an unambiguous indicator that the whole story they are telling is most probably nothing than a dirty lie."…

        Seems when they use the word "rebels" it's reserved for forces allied with the west.

        Feb. 24, 2013: A spokesman for the Free Syria Army hinted Sunday that the rebels would be willing to allow International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors into the Al-Kibar nuclear facility, which they seized last week. […]

        • Good catch. Language is a mean of control. Who controls the language controls the way of thinking. Read Chomsky
          There is absolutely no formal legal definition of "terrorism" vs "organized crime". Who is only a bad criminal and who is a terrorist is decided by the government. While the former gets a legal trial, the latter gets droned at will.
          (Another example: "government" vs "regime".)

          • clamshellernh clamshellernh

            I love Chomsky , I live in Cambridge and have attended many of his talks .
            A book I suggest to all that was written in the seventies
            Has been updated to reflect the times and Fukushima
            Is NUKESPEAK ..a prerequisite I feel in dealing with the rewriting of words
            Peacekeepers my ass !

            • Just ordered a copy ;-).

              Regarding Chomsky: fortunately, there are lots of interviews and lectures available as videos on YouTube. I suggest anyone who doesn't know him or his theories to do some research. This is basic knowledge for any info warrior :-).

            • bo bo

              So what does chomsky have to say about fukushima ?

              • Chomsky is not the author of the book in question. But he has – among other things – researched the way language is used to manipulate and control people in a way that they wouldn't notice. And he has often spoken out publicly against government policies, eg during the Vietnam war. The word "nukespeak" itself (which I haven't heard before; I just love it, though *g*) is of course an allusion to "newspeak" from Orwell's 1984.
                I just found that there is even a website called dedicated to nukespeak containing many interesting posts on the subject in direct connection to nuclear lies. I suggest you have a look at it:

                • artika rama

                  fukugedon There are lots of videos on youtube deliberately produced to debunk chomsky as well .
                  He is a brave man and a smart one IMO . 🙂

                  • clamshellernh clamshellernh

                    The gov and such does not like the truth

                  • soern

                    a.r. so why debunk it then?
                    Chilling or what?

                    • artika rama

                      No they claim that he is sold . I dont beleive it personally . I have lots of respect to chomsky and what he has done but it is how it is .
                      Its not my opinion ,, i am just saying , he is obvioulsy iritating a lot of people and they keep atatcking him .

              • clamshellernh clamshellernh

                I say something regarding him talking about it , I must find it later , I'm off to see Helen mirron in Harvard at the hasty parade . I have to get away from this for a while

        • Another nice one: "conspiracy theorist".
          As of itself, the term is neutral and describes a person who suspects a conspiracy. But it has been successfully negatively connotated and associated with attributes like "untrue" or "nuts". When the term is used, the goal is to discredit a person so that in consequence noone further examines at all if his/her theory are substantial. The theory is dismissed along with the person's credibility. Simply by calling someone a conspiracy theorist. A very handy and powerful mechanism for those forming our language, isn't it ?

          • clamshellernh clamshellernh

            Yes it is if one does not take the time to realize that we are critical thinkers

          • tinfoiled tinfoiled

            "Conspiracy theorist" I think that ones my favorite. If you question any official government story, regardless how ridiculous and impossible it sounds. You are considered a raving lunatic.

            The most amazing part is the public's attempt to defend the official stories that you questioned, with crazy theories of their own! Never mind that I may have researched the subject for several years.

            • HoTaters HoTaters

              tinfoiled, I LOVE to be called a CT, and then ask the person who says I shouldn't be looking at too many CT websites, "Well, have you read the DARPA or NOAA or DOE white papers on geoengineering?" (For example.) Are those real entities, and do you believe what they tell you? Check it out for yourself. (My stock answer. Love the response. (This is my new strategy.)

              Ah well, er.

        • Tom in AZ Tom in AZ

          I agree with your take on terrorists and rebels, but it is not absolute IMHO. Here is a link from a source that isn't known for parroting the gov't line….

          • Nothing is absolute. Especially not when it comes to language. Language is evolving naturally, but also in a controlled way.
            Take the word "fascist" as an example here. It doesn't necessarily match the same definition, depending on who uses it. And of course it has been largely instrumentalized in the course of the younger history, driven by distinct ideologies. (And ideologies tend to menifest themselves as absolute so that anything else is relativated against it. That is one major component of the trickery !)
            For example, the Russians called the Berlin Wall "anti fascist protection wall", thus equating fascism with capitalism. In the same way, the western world accused the socialists of being fascist.
            Now, theoretially spoken, if you and me were socialized/indoctrinated differently, it is easy to involve us in a meaningless discussion, because we are talking about different things by the same name without really noticing. And this is how it works, basically. The trick is to create the same obfuscation and ambiguities even within one system to disable the citizens to actually participate in the decision process. We are not taught the language of the masters and this puts limitations on how we think and even what we can think.

          • soern

            in germany we heard about that ukrainean fashists by TV and those are not beeing beloved in eu parliament.
            EU don't need fashists and we fight them down, be sure.

            In US you have not only fashists but even creationists who
            believe in earth were just 6-9 zhousand years old and those fight against science and evidence of evolution also.

            Sure I'm happy here 🙂

        • ftlt

          ENENEWS: The site was razed supposedly

      • McCarthy era. A prominent intersection of that with the nuclear theme is the case of J. Robert Oppenheimer.
        [There is a theatrical play about it based on a script written by a German called Heinar Klipphardt in 1964:; there are also several movies on the subject, see eg and

      • artika rama

        The cold war did not end ,, it s just pretending to be dead.

    • artika rama

      or they will use the scare tactics to control the masses ,, as they allways do .

      • Socrates

        A new angle to use for those who do not see box cutters as a threat.

        Remember the James Bond novels? Dr. No?

        The powers that be realized that the Soviet Union could only be used for a limited time as the "enemy" necessary to justify military spending. In the 70s, it was hippies gone mad, then middle eastern types evolved. Machiavelli spelled out how a Prince was to promote a common enemy…. No peace dividend could be realized in America.

        Now the "enemy" is everybody and anybody.

        Ian Fleming was a spook. He proposed various organizations that would hijack infrastructure or use nefarious schemes. Even a Goldfinger scheme.

      • atomicistheword

        The Australian government is using scare tactics against it's own broadcasting corporation (ABC); using the cost cutting and delivery excuse, because they are reporting about boat people being allegedly tortured and persecuted… holding exhaust pipes burning their hands before returning them to Indonesia. The Indonesian police are investigating.

        Aren't their international treaties about that sort of thing?

        They are about to have a witch hunt of the disabled to further the agenda of disability discrimination that is rife in this country. The UN is watching.


      you need to think a bit more, Fukugeddon, that you "…see absolutely no reason why anyone, even "real" terrorists, would want to sabotage a nucelar power plant."

      You're likely aware, the issue of terrorists and terrorism is highly nuanced. On one side, there are those who have been left with nothing to lose. These are usually individuals who've lost loved ones to state-sponsored terrorism. They're also willing to rain hell down on those they're opposed too.

      On the other side, are 'terrorist' who only exist as tools of the state. A more contemporary example would be found in the so-called "free" Syria 'movement'. These 'soldiers' are bought and paid for and typically used to destabilize competitive governments. And yes, there are a innumerable examples of state-sponsored terrorism that can be found throughout history.

      The main difference, is how these differing groups justify their actions: one feels morally justified, while the other uses morality to justify their violence. Worse yet, the later will co-opt those who think they're morally justified in committing acts of terrorism with false flag terrorism!

      I know you (and others) are aware that this 'game' is being played against innocent populations. So, regardless where 'terrorist' threats come from, given the duplicitous nature of those who manipulate popular opinion to suit their goals, it pays to heed such…

      • You are absolutely right.
        And it's a hell of a game, played with all kinds of trickery. The traitors who stage the false flag terror are clever enough to lay out traces leading to nowhere or ending in a dead end. And they are nesting and interleaving different plots with each other to create a maximum of distraction. And whenever you think you have decoded a plot, you may find that you have only just disclosed exactly on layer with many more waiting behind like nested puppets in a Russian Matroska.

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          And we need to beware of the provocateurs who visit here.

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Am not comfortable when newbies on the site here start making very inflammatory statements, sounding like they are promoting violent solutions to issues. Justice? Well, that's another matter.

            • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

              Based on a thorough re-reading of the above comments, both your concerns make no sense. Please quote what it is you deem "inflammatory" or "violent"?

  • It was only a matter of time until a large producer of nuclear power suffered such a fate as war.

    Ukraine is the 7th biggest Nuclear Power nation, and of course the home of the ill-fated Chernobyl Nuclear Power Station. The Ukraine government are falling behind in the construction of the new concrete sarcophagus, there are even fears it could collapse. Heaven knows what's going to happen if there is a complete breakdown of law and order.

    War, Earthquake, Tsunami, Meteor Strike, Zombie Apocalypse

    There are some things in this world, however unlikely that make Nuclear Power a real bugger, which no amount of "containment can prevent.

    • Socrates

      I must take issue with your mis-characterization of "Zombies." In fact, some of my best friends are zombies. They are actually smarter than those in charge of things…. They are also very lively when they want to be.

      Otherwise, I share your opinions completely.

      Containment is a struggle for thousands, hundreds of thousands of years. That seals the fate of people far into the future as well as now. What were they thinking?

      • nedlifromvermont

        Socrates! "They" were not "thinking." "They" were blinded by greed. "They" were as unable to control themselves in the face of the incredible profits to be realized from unlocking the terrible power of the strong atomic force, which contains the energy potential bequeathed by the unimaginable physical forces experienced at the center of an exploding and dying Supernova, … as a teenage boy on a date with a loose older woman who has no scruples.

        What were you "thinking?" I am glad you are with us.

        Kewaunee, Crystal River, SONGS and VY in 2013 …

        Who'll be the next to witness a planned (possibly orderly) shutdown of a Death and Poison Factory?

        Pallisades, perhaps? Maybe James A. Fitszpatrick? Maybe Pilgrim even?

        As the Seabrook station slowly dissolves into the sea …

        What are we thinking? … to let these rattletraps continue? And to let the waste accumulate in vulnerable pool storage, "up attic" at every cheaply-designed-and-built (courtesy of limited liability to manufacturers from Price-Anderson law) General Electric (bastards) Boiling Water Reactor?

        Eh? Oh right, we were not "thinking" either. Blinded by the pageantry of the NFL, the Grammies, American Idol …

        peace folks!

        • Socrates

          Hi, Ned!

          Their conscious disregard for public safety is only matched by their greed, mendacity and power-mad drive for nuclear fascism.

          Nukes were supposed to end fascism… Instead, the bankers and the MIC have become the new fascist regime.

          By capturing the media and the National security apparatus set up after WW II, they are on their way to abolishing the old welfare state. Two classes are being set up with the 1% seizing safe enclaves with nice environments so those lazy working people cannot trouble them with ideas of equality. Our betters stole it fair and square.

          The worst enemy is equality…. (to them).

          • utahruss utahruss

            Well if you are really interested in making a difference, in stopping all of the nonsense that has and continues to go on, perpetrated by a small segment, then just learn about where your law really comes from, of all of the nations of planet earth, and once knowing what it is and how it empowers you, who is the sole reason for societies and governments to exist, quite simple to make a few small changes and alter the flow of societies focus to the issue of PLANET SURVIVAL.
            No need for all that struggle and conflict, simple.
            Come join us in developing SOLUTIONS

    • atomicistheword

      Citizen, you left out pole reversal, alien invasion and solar flares……

      Hmmm, better add robots, after all a robot used to run California at one stage.

      • Of course! 😉

        Although we can leave that up to Hollywood's "predictive programming" as their special effects are better!

        Gotta mention….

        Global Warming, Super-Volcano, Black Hole, Sudden Continental Shift, Supernova, Particle Accelerator Malfunction (LHC), Nanobot Infection, Return of Jesus Christ, "Planet X", Breakup of "One-Direction"

    • ftlt

      Citizen 83: Add to that the very real possibility of Climate Change as a nuclear threat.. War, social disorder, increased storms and sea level rise.. All are bad news for a nuclear planet.

      The nukes and nuclear waste (to include depleted uranium) are made vulnerable by it.

      Major war is made more possible too

    • gordon

      Ukraine has little to do with the New Safe Confinement, nor is it in danger of collapsing.

      I've been wishing lately that I could dig up more time to look more closely at NSC, who's behind it. What I do know about the structure, I'm impressed.

      1. It's designed to facilitate three or four generations of workers.
      2. It's interior is rigged with filtration systems, environmental control to a degree.
      3. It's also going to have equipment rigged to the interior to dismantle the old containment and work on the mess that is the reactor underneath.
      4. It is breath-taking in its girth.

      It seems to be organized by a bank?

      If I had any power in the world, I would stage a division of armor around the site while the idiots in that country, government and civilian, throw around their gasoline and fire rubber bullets.

      • Mark Wonclunker

        I have always found it very difficult to news of actual progress on the site. You would think they would be wanting to make it a showcase project.

        I believe it is funded by a number of european countries, with Russia being a big contributor.

  • Ontological Ontological

    They call us the terrorists. What government will do for money is pathetic. They plan failure, then make it the little peoples problem. What the hell did they expect would happen…

    • Discordian

      I have a set of Funk and Wagnalls/Britannica dictionaries from 1956 which I picked up at a used book store 2 years ago. Therein, "terrorism" is defined as "A system of GOVERNMENT that seeks to rule by intimidation." That particular definition cannot be found in the dictionaries of today.

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Problem, reaction, solution. That's the G Formula, Ontological.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        On the other hand, blowing up a nuke plant to achieve a political end is a fantastically absurd idea.

  • Daisy207

    The people of the world are kept under control with energy. We can't live without it just like we can't live without water. The US position on energy independence from the Middle East is garbage – since when have we ever imported middle east oil? It goes to europe. We could use West Texas Crude and Alaskan Crude – right? No – congress says we can't use high sulfur oil even though we have the capacity to refine it out. Its all politics – we have no oil shortage in the world and the US is the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas. CO2 is nothing that man can do anything about – how are they going to stop volcanos from emitting it? Killing off the phytoplankten in the Pacific that converts CO2 to O2 could be a real issue however. Ukraine is just the beginning – and if they are really serious about encouraging economic growth in the US they had better do something to get energy prices down or eliminated completely – Kuwaities pays nothing for energy because they are special.

    • humptydumpty humptydumpty

      Lots of hastily drawn false conclusions here based on poor thinking; mixing natural and man-made pollution, political and economic motivations, mistaken notions galore.

      We don't need more energy or cheaper energy. We need to use less and stop extracting fossil fuels. To say that "C02 is nothing that man can do anything about" is absurd on its face. Ukraine is just the beginning of what? "Encouraging economic growth" is a trap because it demands increased energy consumption and therefore endless extraction of fossil fuels. Economic growth is the root of the problem, not the solution.

      • Edward Edward

        Agreed we need to use LESS energy, but america has no intentions of doing so. Economic growth, consumption, greed and corruption are all the problem. QE has made the rich much wealthier and did nothing for the rest. The stock market/wall street are protected with little to no regard for everything else. This will not end well. For a look at the future and what GREED has caused, see what is already happening in other parts of the world …. unrest.

        • Just look at nature: there isn't a single form of life out there that uses any more energy than needed for bare survival and reproduction. Maybe that should make us thinking about the question whether that is the only way it works in the long run ?
          Another hint is the human concept of waste that is found nowhere in nature. Anything is recycled. I suppose because it simply only works this way.
          Humans on the other hand do not only spend a little more energy needed for survival (about 2500 kcal/d), they spend an unimaginably higher amount of energy, higher by several powers of ten, if you break the total amount down to the individual. It seems crazy to think this might work out for long, if you know what I mean ?

          • jan

            That depends of how many humans we are talking about .

          • To drive this misconception to the extreme, I read somewhere that Ronald Reagan once said the biggest source of waste was nature itself. Because of the huge amounts of leaves falling from the trees in autumn (I guess that is why this season is called "fall" in American English).

  • earthsmith earthsmith

    The only terrorists are the ones in power. Terrorizing societies with their lies since the beginning. Those people DO blowup. Has not anyone else seen it? Smoke and mirrors, bait and switch, he said she said, call it what you want.
    So who gets blamed when things go wrong?
    Very easy when the seed has been planted.

    • Socrates

      Are you saying the Emperor has no clothes?

      • earthsmith earthsmith

        I have not seen any yet. You?

      • unincredulous unincredulous

        Recommended reading :

        The Emporer Wears No Clothes

        You can read the whole book online at this link:

        At the top of the page the link, "The Book" has all the chapters.

        It is a real eye opener on the machinations of power. In this instance, hemp and marijuana prohibition are discussed. Lots of revelation about official lies and international geopolitical power. I can't remember everything, but I remember this Harry Anslinger guy. Apparently, he felt that a farmer growing 1/6 acre of hemp was suspicious and should be shut down. He said something like, (paraphrased) "A man has no more business growing 1/6 acre of hemp than he does growing 1/6 acre of rutabagas." In other words, big business or no business. Also read some quotes about early communist infiltrators who found that early America was not "socialized enough" to be susceptible to communism. One of Karl Marx's buddies, forget his name.

        I read the book about fifteen years ago. If you can, get the book. The pictures and graphics are great.

  • mairs mairs

    Sounds an awful lot like a lying government ploy to turn people away from the insurgents. That's why reporters were smiling.

  • earthsmith earthsmith

    Have no fear the Bill Gates funded NPR will keep the sheeple informed.
    Sorry for the OT but I had to throw it in there

  • WindorSolarPlease

    As safe as the officials can, they should just shut down all the nuclear plants in the world.

    I do believe there are those (even people in high places) who would sabotage a nuclear power plant.
    Which that is the most stupidest thing someone could do.

    • Shaker1

      I don't think that one should overestimate another's ability to reason what is or isn't within their interests to do, or that the risks associated to willing action within another's mind are anything that resembles your own. Does one have to cite the willingness of some to introduce a computer virus to cripple the existential threat of another's nuclear capability? Such action was solely based upon assumptions of intent, not an actual threat. Could they truly believe that they could control the consequence of such a thing, or that consequence gone wild could have left what they're claiming to represent unharmed? There was literally no conscience that I can perceive in such a decision to use that method of attack, an obvious, accepted chaotic element also, but they did it anyway. The sad fact is that there are methods of mitigating the threat that carry so much less risk, and to my mind the choices made should make one wary of any responsible decisions coming from that quarter that doesn't expressly cause them personal physical pain. Even at that point, there are some real nut jobs out there, aren't there?

  • Socrates

    Every nuke plant will have to be guarded like Ft. Knox.

    "Rebels" or "Freedom Fighters" will threaten to or actually assault these soft targets. Didn't Condo Rice forget that airplanes could be used in an assault. Makes you wonder why not.

    Now there are soft targets galore worldwide thanks to the nuke industry. Is anyone accountable for such stupidity? Did they ever realize that a soft target could become the non-stoppable dirty bomb. A elderly nun penetrate a nuke facility. Get real. A coronal mass ejection could cause a Carrington event. Anything could happen.

    The increasing stupidity of the human race never ceases to amaze me. These guys get paid for being stupid.

    Jared Diamond knew how stupid societies get based on false beliefs that cause self-extinction. That nuclear energy is "safe" is one of these false beliefs. It will be the final curtain for humanity.

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      🙂 "It will be the final curtain for humanity."

      Yes, of course, but this is the type of brain washing we have to deal with on a daily basis out here.

      Now aren't these thoughts the citizen's primary priorities?–women-most-attracted-to-guys-in-trucks-222507614.html

      Brain candy, I think not.. 🙁

      It's only a matter of time now.. 🙁

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        I can agree with the stuff in the first link for the 50's and beyond. The advice for the 20 somethings is just silly and superficial. But when it seems like you've got forever to waste on deciding about your hair color, heck, why not?

      • unincredulous unincredulous

        get something pierced…

        That must be what's happening. Didn't see it before. Coriums piercing the earth. When the ring is installed, what will they call it – pinky ring, navel ring, genital ring? I think it will be an anus ring. Right through the old Tepco…

    • We Not They Finally

      Socrates, you're reporting what Condi Rice SAID. That doesn't even give a clue as to what she already KNEW. Ricem also former exec at Chevron, wasn't exactly Ms. Innocence!

      "Terrorism" is also a scapegoat tool. Like Ernest Moniz, head of the DOE went to Japan and did not come away with one shred of truth or one humane suggestion what to do. It was all about "guarding nuclear plants against terrorism."

      The high-powered people causing all this GENUINE TERROR can be counted on to do that. As scary as what is happening, is what diversions we'll be asked to swallow when the public catches on.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes, shut them all down!
    "I do believe there are those (even people in high places) who would sabotage a nuclear power plant."

    Ever notice how the recent mall shooters taking people out, are turning the guns on themselves too!

    Entire families are dying from cancer and disease based on a Nuclear Technology that is failed and we are to wonder out here why they ( terrorists, rebels, insurgents, whoever) would take out an entire region and/or country along with themselves?

    Maybe we all better rethink what the true role of government is suppose to be…pretty sure the watch should be about changing the past and current folly they see/is going on.

    Nuclear has been folly at best.. 🙁

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Zatulin: CIA agents work for Ukraine's State Security Service
    Feb 3 2010

    • pure water

      Hearth of the Rose@, Jebus@ posted something about the Pope`s prayer for peace. Black and white birds attacked the doves of peace, when they were set free. What a sign!It represents what I can see from my perspective.
      It is very sad the people of Ukraine fight between each other for foreign interests – there is nothing for them in this bloodshed.

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        There are no winners in any war… 🙁

        • pure water

          Agree!Wars are simply devastating.
          Normal human being in a right state of mind does not go by his will to war and does not support agression. Nucler is an agression towards Nature and makes an easy target for possible human insanity.
          May be psychopaths consider themselves winners.

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          manipulative people with low morals rise to the top of political power throughout the history of man. They dont respond to logic, kind pleading, compassion for human suffering or law. They label the righteous enemies, traitors and terrorists while they inflict suppression and exploitation of the masses.

          For this reason, society should model itself on a properly functioning body. We would not exist one day without an immune system that rids the body of toxic intruders. We cant exist without phagocytes which eliminate rogue cells; cancer.

          This condition of leaders, bankers and corporations that are too big to fail is pervasive and will bring the earth to ruin. The whole world has gone fascist and there is an inexhaustible source of angry men who yearn to play out their aggressions. You can be peaceful with them, but they will not be peaceful with you or your loved ones.

          The idealized vision of world peace is not based on the reality of nature. In this world, animals, microbes and psychopaths will "eat you alive" without remorse. Your very immune system is a killer, and also a healer.

  • Hijackers Took Oak Ridge Nuclear Reactor Hostage; We Are All Hostages To Nuclear Power And Military Industry; via @AGreenRoad

  • pure water

    "Intelligent ignorance leads to a tragedy." – Yurii Badazhevsky
    Pray for Ukraine and prof. Bandazhevsky, who as far as i know workas there for an organization supporting the liquidators.
    There is a link to the full text – read and use it, friends.Damaged tissues do not lie!

  • clamshellernh clamshellernh

    What is strategic in this area of the world . I mean what does the USA want with them ? I see a pattern when this type of thing is covered , first who is threatening is called a terrorist then this
    It might be a false flag event in the making . We shall see how the msm uses this in the days to come or it disappears .
    Anyone .?

    • Shaker1

      "What is strategic in this area of the world . I mean what does the USA want with them?"

      I'm not one to pay great attention to the power plays of the world, but, first of all, it's a great pain in the side of Russia. The area is a great breadbasket, and even though the country may be 'independent', Russian influence there never really waned after the dissolution of the Soviet Union through their gas price controls in that state proper and simply traditional ties, though contentious. Ukraine is also the route to Western Europe through which gas flows.

      Russia is a direct counterplay in the overall game, they have the ability to remain independent, where China is not so much so. Their actions in Syria, the demonstation of alternative power as in the Cyprus banking crisis, and resistance to Iranian sanctions are examples. They don't appear to be afraid to act in contradiction to NATO and Western intentions nor can they be 'bought'. In all honesty, they could become the only accepted alternative to Western gangsters, though just gangsters in their own right, as the Islamic shadow over ME gangsters and their form of justice aren't acceptable to Western states.

      Look at the Ukraine like an area of a city over which two gangs fight.

      • clamshellernh clamshellernh

        Ukraine is also the route to Western Europe through which gas flows.


      • artika rama

        SHaker1 Its the same old story ,, western capitalistic / individualistic system against the eastern socialistic traditional system .
        It is still the cold war , the same one .
        West couldnt win the war against russia with guns and nuclear weapons but they are invading it with hamburgers and pizza .
        The unrest in ukraine is largely supported / coordinated by the west with only the intention of destabilizing the country .
        Ukraine has very fanatic and strongly religious groups which makes it a vry volatile country , ready to explode ,, so very easy to start a war there .
        Just send an agent , shoot doan a few protesters or explode a bomb somewhere and you can have a war the same day .
        I hope it doesnt get so far , but people in ukraine are sick and tired of corruption and powerty and they are willing to go that far to get what they want .
        Where you have suffering and powerty , it s easy to start a war .

        • Shaker1

          artika, I was trying to contribute some answer to the question. I agree it's the same old same old, and I think that's pretty much what I said in my comment. I used the same term, gangsters, to describe all cited there. When one considers assumption of power as inherently prejudicial, the dichotomies become simply rhetorical points in description of an age-old problem.

          The only thing that I personally and firmly believe politcally is that one cannot achieve peace and justice through violence and prejudice. My hopes always devolve to that belief, and I truly hope that this finds some balanced tension (which it seems the only peace most experience) that allows people to live and entertain what they feel is a better and more just life for themselves and those they love without a mass of martyrs.

          • artika rama

            shaker1 great philosophy :)I couldnt put it better if i wanted to 🙂 .If only there were more people thinking the same as you do , this world would be a much better place . prejudice , fanaticism , selfishnes , violence , dont belong to this world . Unless people change their attitude against violence and prejudice i dont think we will survive as a species.
            unfortunately thats the way we are going right now and i dont see it changing soon .
            Only if there were more people thinking like you 🙂
            Chapeaux 🙂

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar VanneV

    Ukraine reactors map

    “In 2007, nuclear power supplied 47.5% of Ukraine's electricity production of 195 billion kWh. The total installed capacity of nuclear reactors in Ukraine is over 13 GWe.[1]…”

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar VanneV

    Ukraine Unrest and More on The Foreign Bureau
    “Anti-government protests intensify in Ukraine's provinces, and Iranian President Hasan Rouhani may not have the authority to close a nuclear deal.”!604FE3B4-3A06-451A-931E-C66C1C15EFA8

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar VanneV

    “…Do Ukrainian Fascist Protesters Pose Threat To Nuclear Facilities?
    “Yesterday in Kiev, Minister of Energy and Coal Industry of Ukraine Eduard Stawicki stated that IAEA experts will arrive next week for an unscheduled inspection. ‘The inspection is conditioned with the fact of threats of seizure and blocking Ukrainian thermal, nuclear and hydro power stations. We have permanent inspection regime, but now the situation is very difficult with such kind of tension in the society,’ Stawicki claimed. He also made clear that ‘currently, a special regime of protection has been introduced at nuclear, hydroelectric and thermal power plants. Guard there has been fully reinforced. We'll respond to any attempt. No one will laugh any longer then,’ he added.
    ‘Stawicki's assessment is based upon an evaluation of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), whose statement said: "The events that occur around the facilities of the national energy system have negative impact on the level of security of our country and threaten its functioning, as well as the life and health of citizens. The Ukrainian Security Service warns that possible seizure, destruction or damage to objects that have important economic or military significance with the purpose to weaken the state, violate public security, intimidate the population, influence decision-making by state or local authorities is punishable under Articles 113 (diversion) and 258 (terrorism) of the Criminal Code of Ukraine. These acts are…

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar VanneV

      These acts are punishable by imprisonment for a term of up to 15 years."
      ‘Ukraine has four nuclear power plants with 15 generating units, including the largest in Europe, Zaporizhia nuclear power plant with six reactors.
      ‘On Jan. 25, reports indicate that some 100 radicals armed with clubs briefly entered the Ukrainian Energy Ministry building in Kiev and then blocked its main entrance. Energy Minister Stawicki arrived at the scene for talks with the armed protesters and warned them their actions could ruin the entire energy system of the country.’There was an attempt to seize the building. About 100 people came, armed. I went to them and said that if they did not peacefully leave the building then the whole energy system of Ukraine could collapse,’…"

    • clamshellernh clamshellernh

      Thank you for the quick response , I'll be watching this story more closely . Unrest everywhere it seems

      • People are starting to get active and become aware..

        The light is dawning that the 1% have taken over when no one was watching, and now it is up to us to take it all back.

        No one has come to save your family, or mine, or the neighboring countries..

        We are the ones that we have been waiting for.

        Either that, or it gets much, much worse… your choice.

        • artika rama

          Dr Goodheart If we are talking about Ukrainians , they are absolutaley not getting aware , they are just sick and tired of suffering , powerty , living under terrible conditions .
          They are only being used by the west as muppets for their own goal promising a better life for the poor ukraininas , which in this case nevewr wil happen . They are trying to shelter from the rain , while they are running into a storm as they say .

  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

    HA! Funny as hell these. "Terrorists gonna blow up a NPP." They blow themselves up! Just wait a while. Gov't… terrorists… can't tell the difference anyway.

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      Also, what if these NPPs, no matter where they are, are teetering on the brink of melt down due to shoddy design & maintenance (not to mention being built on an earthquake fault). How convenient is it to say, "we've had terrorist threats against these plants" and when something does happen, it gets blamed on terrorism? I don't trust these incubi as far as I can throw them; and then not even that far 🙂

    • artika rama

      If a nuke plant goes boom , it wont be terrorists doing it for sure .
      I dont think this has anything to do with energy either . Its pure politics , russia against the west . Putin s ambitious to restore russia as a serious power in the world , and western world doesnt want that .
      Ukrain is a poor country and people only care for finding some shelter and food to eat . they dont care that much who will provide that .

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes, we are all in big Nuclear trouble now and this is what happens when you let fools run the ships! 🙁

  • Nick

    How are we going to secure the toxic landmass of Northern Japan from terrorists?

    How are we going to secure the toxic waters of the Pacific from terrorists?

    Somehow, NPPs don't frighten me anymore, since much of their toxic contents (from accidents and intentional tritium releases) have already permeated our biosphere.

    It's called insult to injury from here on out.

    The Ukraine is destined to dissolve into a radioactive goo anyway, the legacy of Chernobyl helped that along.

    The very braincells of millions of Ukrainians are altered forever.

    Rage against the machine coming to haunt us all.

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      Brings up a good point. Why are alot of our nuc. facilities guarded by rent-a-cops? A friggin 90 yo nun can break into them. 🙂

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture


    We might become extinct like star fish, because of one spewing nuclear power plant.

    That is the concern.

  • AirSepTech AirSepTech

    What happens in the Ukraine, won't stay in the Ukraine.
    25 years since the big 'C'.

    As 'head-up-ass' as we(man) appear to be, we're waking up.
    Won't take another 25 years.

    I fear the socio-economic fallout as much or more than the rad.

    Peace and Love be with the Ukraine, we are not far behind.

    • artika rama

      Airseptt Russia doesnt want to loose ukraine but i think its just a bit too late to claim it back .

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    It is so clear to see.. TheBigPicture! 🙂

  • weeman

    If any race of people know the perils of nuclear power the Ukrainians do, don't try to tell me they would storm a nuclear facility and purposely put it in meltdown, no way. More like the vast majority of the people in the Ukraine do not want nuclear power and they see this as a way to shut them down, as nuclear power is being shoved down there throats against their will?
    What is really scary to me is the lie of meltdown by people and of they do manage to take control of a nuclear facility, the response by the government will be carnage on the people with the excuse of a nuclear holocaust for the justification.
    To the soldiers and government officials of the Ukraine refrain from violence, your people have spoken, listen to the voice of the people, that is who you are responsible for not the government, they govern at the peoples pleasure and are the supreme authority, no other.
    Power to the people.

    • artika rama

      weeman An average ukrainian is only worried about finding some food to eat for that day . Nuclear power is not really on most peoples mind .

  • This is starting to look like a global movement against the 1%, that the nuclear mafia is part of, along with most government politicians. In Germany, they transitioned away peacefully.

    In other countries like Syria, Egypt, Ukraine, etc… it may be that violence is the only way, because people cannot make their voice heard.

    When people cannot have their voice heard as in the US today, what happens?

    Corporatocracy cannot rule forever, because it is a broken, upside down, backwards strategy with a top down 1% in charge.. usually the worst of the worst.

    NOthing sustainable will come from that arrangement.

    Just perpetual slavery of humans, environmental destruction and a downward spiral into the abyss, just so the 1% can get richer.

  • Nick

    Dr. G….

    Years ago I pegged what I call the 99/1 rule…..99% of humans are stupider than you are. If you forget this fact, say when driving down a freeway, it can prove fatal. Everyday, I still am reminded of my musings all those years ago (way before Occupy's 99:1).

    It's not that I am that smart, just that people are, well, in general, dumb.

    Regards to wealth…. I believe we are at a tipping point in history when money making money for itself will become ever more vilified. Indeed, many wealthy people can't stand the stigma and are quietly divesting themselves of the trappings that blatantly pegs them as such.

    To be poor, to live on a meager income will become the new norm and coveted by one and all. Yeah right?!

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Nick, just read that the average per capita U.S. income per household is down to about $35,000 per year, and the average U.S. worker earns about $19,600 or so per year. (Do these figures reflect only stats for working adults, I wonder?)

      In the early 1990's, the average income per U.S. worker was about $35,000. Most people were employed full time, but that was about the time corporations began to "downsize" or to be more politically correct, "rightsize."

      Bottom line: the income of the average U.S. person has been eroded by nearly 50%. With many families or households headed up by one working person, there's a lot of poverty out there. And that's not even taking into consideration persons disabled, unemployed, or unwilling, unable to work.

      Big train wreck, if you ask me. A process of extraction from human capital is underway. What do you do when you use up the human capital, if you're the one making decisions? Good question, methinks.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        If the QE dirigible implodes, the fallout in the U.S. will be unbelievable. Yep, I think that would be just as bad as being Fuky'd. There will be a lot of angry, hungry people hitting the streets.

  • ftlt

    Here is a view that is not found in the main stream news here. This web site is overly sympathic to Russian interests IMO But much of the article is still most likely true in this case.

    The demonstrators leadership are funded by the EU/USA intellegence and there are strong connections withneo-fascist national groups on the street.

    Who is bring you what??? Ask questions

  • ftlt

    Here is another interesting one. Both have interesting information to impart.

    Nuclear Russia and the nuclear West are clearly squeezing the people of the Ukraine.

    Screw Globalism!!! Screw Nuclear Capitalism!!!

  • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

    Perhaps we should make sure our own house is in order?

    After Fukushima we now know that the "5 second SCRAM" as a safety feature is a scam (obviously even a successful SCRAM would be immediately ineffective against saboteurs determined and able to reach and melt the fuel rods with magnesium and thermite, burning at 3100 degrees Celsius).

    Now it seems, if the pumps or the water conduits are simply destroyed, the cores melt within a few hours or a few days, regardless.

    What's worse, our plants are guarded by a few private security guards. It is a national disgrace that our most vulnerable "national security" features are guarded by no official law enforcement or uniformed service.

    Arguably, each plant should have a swarm of DHS officers, a platoon of infantrymen, an FBI command post, and a state police barracks on the premises. Arguably even more security than what already exists at US international airports is warranted, but certainly more than a few private security guards with a fence and a camera. . .

    In fact, telling our law enforcement, national guard, and "national security" establishments that they would need to perform this useful and necessary function, would not only provide real security for the land of the free and the home of the brave, they'd probably go no-nuke pretty darn quick.

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Isn't thermite to be had only by the military, and tremendously expensive? That's not to say someone couldn't get their hands on it.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        Maybe it's thermate.

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Not a pretty thought.

          • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

            I don't know what that is.

            Putative saboteurs would likely use homemade thermite plus a little "shake 'n bake": extra magnesium powder for extra heat for melting plus a good neutron moderator for fission that wouldn't melt, such as powdered graphite, for one example. This shit ain't rocket science, which is a big problem.

      • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

        Um, no it's not tremendously expensive, nor restricted to the military, it's a simple chemical compound. Look here:

        Point is all these bozos, these supposed "authorities", politicians, "talking heads" and "leaders" babbling incessantly about terrorism and national security, traumatizing our children with bogeymen and groping us at the airport, and what do they leave us to protect the nuclear power plants? A few civilian security guards with M-4s? Disgusting.

    • ftlt

      Ala-ice: Don't forget the that nuclear plants and storage facilitates are first strike targets in wars too. The nuclear military is trained to accept nuclear pollution as a fact of life in war.

      Modern nation state militarizes use radioactive weapons all the time all over the world by the 1000's of tons. Every major military in the world has and uses depleted uranium rounds – deadly and super-persistent nuclear polluters.

      If you land has been polluted by 1000's of tons of impact dispersed depleted uranium is not a nuclear attack on your enemy's homelands nuclear targets called for??? That is not terrorism. That is war. Tit for tat.

      • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

        Yes, nations have a habit of bombing each other's nuclear power plants even when they are not at "war." Presumably they aim for the core to scatter the rods, rather than aiming for the water pumps to let the corium melt down.

        And, yes we need to defend our nuclear power plants for obvious reasons, not merely limited to 12th century jihadist throwbacks.

        • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

          In a war between nuclear powers, I don't know what's worse: deliberately targeting the plants of a putative adversary to scatter the rods, or risking having that nuclear nation proceed with a "scorched earth" policy, like Saddam did with his oil wells, and deliberately melt down their home reactors.

          • Be careful with such comments about Saddam… nothing is like is seems… (at least not as simple, that is)

            • Of course you are right about the concept. It is as old as the art of warfare. In German, we use the same expression, "(Politik der) verbrannten Erde" meaning "(policy of) scorched earth".
              [There also was a DOS computer game by that name in the early nineties, weird:

            • Alaskan Ice Alaskan Ice

              If you're telling me many of the wells were targeted by US during Gulf War I or II, I wouldn't be surprised. Seems more likely the Kuwaiti wells were scuttled by Iraq in Gulf War I, but I wasn't there during the initial push for either.

              Either way, it's a more contemporary popular culture example of the principle of "scorched earth" than granaries burning before hungry advancing Roman legions arrive. . .

  • Ontological Ontological

    Sure shut em ALL down and burry the garbage in MY back yard over the next 50 years. There has GOT to be a better plan, but the bastards have no plan to spend money only MAKE it at MY expense, trucking this shit through MY town. Y'all are happy when it's not YOUR backyard they gonna throw this horrible shit in! Truck it by YOUR house on a road so close you question the laws allowing it. Sure not a problem for y'all. Easy when it don't effect you. Easy when it is someone ELSE that has to make is so. Demand this, Demand that, but do nothing to get it. Motto, for me has been all my life: YOU want something done right, do it YOURSELF! Ya dowanna do anything!? STFU!

  • paschn

    It's hard for the denizens of this dying republic to grasp the concept that "leaders" might not be working in their best interests. So delusional are they that they viciously attack one of their own for actually having the gall to ask a stinking civil "servant" a legitimate question, how DARE they! Questions such as were asked of Mutt Romney concerning why his tens of millions were being kept in non-taxed off shore accounts or of McCain as to why they vote THEMSELVES benefits to die for but intentionally exclude the masses they "represent". I guess the U.S. has become so "sophisticated" they think it in poor taste to question those raping them, their economy/environment all while urinating on the constitution they swore an oath to DEFEND. Perhaps it's time we closely studied how these "lesser" countries "clean house" and apply it here rather than vilify as we do our OWN brave hearts who actually care enough to cause change and drag traitors before a summary tribunal for, (grasp this concept), SWIFT and final judgment? Watching the things which have been and are transpiring here, I truly cannot put a name to it; Cowardice? Stupidity? contagious treason? a suicidal need to be "with the crowd"? As stated earlier by another commenter above, perhaps we should pull at our own noses before we denigrate countries taking bold, decisive action against demonic corporate "citizens" and the filth they install in their "government"?

    • ftlt

      Paschn; True stuff there. Problem is there are too many fascist leaning folks here. American and Americans have chosen the dark side.

      • The general problem with fascism is – at least so it seems to me – that it is an inherent feature of man. Worsen by the fact that at all times the majority of people never really felt uncomfortable with it as long as they belong (or believe to belong to) the superrace :-(.
        Remember pastor Martin Niemöller's words:

        When the Nazis came for the communists,
        I remained silent;
        I was not a communist.

        When they locked up the social democrats,
        I remained silent;
        I was not a social democrat.

        When they came for the trade unionists,
        I did not speak out;
        I was not a trade unionist.

        When they came for the Jews,
        I remained silent;
        I wasn't a Jew.

        When they came for me,
        there was no one left to speak out.

        Read the first four verses and you know how the masses usually feel about anything that is wrong in the world (not in their's, of course).

        • or-well

          When they took away papers
          I was listening to radio

          When they took away radio
          I was watching TV

          When they took away TV
          I was on the internet

          When they took the internet
          I was busy texting

          When the Carrington Event took out WiFi, electricity and nuclear plants
          I was so damn bored I almost welcomed the excitement,
          until I had to fight for my life against hungry hordes.
          I wish now I'd watched more of The Walking Dead,
          or at least done a little prep.

          OK, most of N. Amer. is too comfortable to do squat.

          I guess the point I want to make is that "They" have been "coming for us" for a long time, in the sense of manipulating language, numbing us to violence, dulling our minds, manipulating our beliefs, etc.

          "We" are being "taken away" while being left in place, so to speak.

          • You know what I was thinking lately ?
            We should not allow for further "digitalization" of our world. Because once anything "analog" is gone (eg printed books) humankind totally depends on computer technology.
            If this technology is ripped apart, either on purpose or by sudden breakdown of resources/energy, all is lost. All of our knowledge, all of our history, all of our identity. A new generation of slaves could then be created, never knowing that there has ever been anything such as freedom (though we don't really in freedom, but in relative freedom). Maybe that is the goal ? Like the waitress slaves in "Cloud Atlas" ?

            • And even if that is not the purpose, we will be back in the stone age – while this would certainly not be a bad thing for this planet…

            • or-well

              Fukugeddon, yes, comprehensive digitalization is a great concern. But even absent it, what actual skills have been retained that would allow survival outside of the interconnected, interdependent techno society?

              Can anyone use a loom, let alone make one? Or a barrel? How about a clay pot? Blacksmith? Harness-maker?

              Sometimes a scenario is presented where we are thrown back to conditions of a century or two ago, or something like that.

              We wouldn't survive. We simply don't have the skills, and even if a few folks could do a few of those things, they wouldn't have them within the supporting context that enabled them to contribute to survival.

            • jan

              Analog or digital , data can be stored in material form which could survive much longer than any book .

              • Sure. But noone will be able the digital version.
                Simple example: we can still read hieroglyphes carved in stone 5000 years ago.
                But we cannot read a floppy disk from the eighties any more, depending on the content. Don't forget you don't only need a working disk drive, it needs to be attached to a working piece of computer hardware that has the proper interface, and you need to have an operating system capable of handling the file system that was used etc etc
                So we should at least stick with something which doesn't need any more technology to decode than absolutely necessary. Can we agree on that ?

                • jan

                  Those technologies are obsolete because we dont need them , we have much better ones m but if we wanted we could create computers that can read floppies without any problem . Its not that we cannot do it , we just dont want to .
                  Reliable data storage has nothing to do with analog or digital form . You could have LP/or a casette which are both analog and you wouldnt be able to play them in a modern car anymore.

                  • Right. And I say that is a problem. Or may become an enormous one.
                    I think the problem lies in the word "better". It seems better now, but we do not see the consequences: by embracing all kind of new inventions, we inherently increase our dependency on technology more and more. We take the existance and availability of this technology as granted forever – which it won't be. We live on a planet with limited resources, but we act as if they were unlimited.
                    Have a look at my 11:55 am post in the "Even worse news at Fukushima plant" thread and the following ones where I posted about Scorsese's movie "Surviving Progress". Watch it. One of the central motives is the notion of "progress traps". We have already stepped into (too) many of them.

                    • jan

                      This is another subject i think but lets continue. .
                      I don t understand what you mean by progress traps , but i do believe what people in general experience as progress is not necessarily a good progress.
                      As an example take energy use per person , which increases per capita depending on the developmental level of a country , which is not a good progress but a really bad one . If that is what you are talking about progress-traps then i agree with you 100% . Not every progress is a good progress.
                      In fact the biggest challenges we face today are caused by bad progress i think and this whole forum is about discussing one of them .
                      At the same time i also believe that good progress could solve those problems .

                    • jan

                      Thats also how i think . Progress in the hands of irresponsible people can ruin the whole world. We have to think the real value of everything we do and not only focus on monetary value i think . We also make long term sustainable plans . We must consider the harms we will bring to our environment , and other life forms as well .
                      If we don t follow a responsible good form of progress we will end up like many civilisations before us .
                      Fukushima is another reminder of how wrong we can be .
                      We should take a lesson from it and try to adapt our way of thinking , and maybe even something good can come from such a disaster.

                  • or-well

                    jan, just to clarify, my point was about practical, hands-on skills that enable survival in a post-technological scenario such as Fukugeddon suggested.
                    Agriculture is fossil-fuel dependent. As we inevitably are forced to wind down our fossil-fuel use, we won't be replacing it in agric with electricity, simply because we can't use electricity as fertilizer nor generate enough to "do" ag and everything else.
                    In a scenario where electricity is rationed or completely disrupted, managing data won't matter as much as knowing how to help a cow successfully birth a calf that's in difficulty.
                    Fukugeddon's point may differ from mine.
                    Analog or digital data aside, few of us have skills to pass on that will enable survival if the grid fails.

                    • jan

                      I see what you mean and you are right , under those circumstances many of us dont have the survival skilss(including myslef) since we are totally dependent on our technologies. We never consider we would have to go through a survival situation . But i thought in US prepping was popular , isnt it ?

                    • or-well

                      jan, I too think prepping is popular I don't know how widespread, but I believe it's often flawed, sometimes by lack of real longterm thinking, sometimes by lack of understanding it MUST be done in context of community, sometimes other unrealistic assumptions.
                      I realised, in my own circumstances, I couldn't realistically "prep" for any longterm and that I won't last long if "it" all goes bad.

                    • This also goes to jan (reply/comment level is limited):
                      Whaetever we do, we need to think about potential consequences. And – even more important – we need to re-evaluate potential risks over and over. A decision that was helpful once can lead to a dead end later because the conditions have changed.
                      Take the invention of money as an example. It seemed a good idea, and I tend to say it was a good idea, maybe one of the brightest ones in human history. But – the invention of fiat money was a bad one, although it probably looked like a good one some time ago. The same with stocks. Originally, they helped new businesses to collect money on the market. However, the worse development about money and the stock market was how these concepts got completely decoupled from actual values in form of goods. And – regarding money – an terrible misconception about money nowadays is the idea that it can substitute anything on this planet. The truth is: it cannot substitute ANYTHING. We are facing that exact problem now: politicians are still playing through economic/financial calculus about Fukushima. But money cannot decontaminate the environment. When I was younger, I considered the Cree prophecy to be corny. But if I think about it now, I conclude that it is nothing but true. Literally !
                      “When all the trees have been cut down,
                      when all the animals have been hunted,
                      when all the waters are polluted,
                      when all the air is unsafe to breathe,
                      only then will you discover you cannot eat…

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes, there has been a disturbance felt in the force and the "dark side" has been implicated/responsible for it! 🙁

  • Nick

    I can't prove it, but I am beginning to think that ionizing radiation of an anthropomorphic origin is altering space time on planet earth.

    Somehow, by allowing so much ongoing fission either controlled or uncontrolled is having a cumulative effect on us all.

    If radiation is a decaying atom, the energy has to come from somewhere, almost like a reverse mini-black hole, the energy arising out of "nowhere."

    My neck hairs have been stiff lately, I cannot seem to squelch an over-whelming sense of doom.

    Japan and Ukraine now have a lot in common.

    • Edward Edward

      Your overwhelming sense of doom is coming from the media. Years ago we did not know of all this violence/unrest, government corruption, greed or how unsafe we really are from income inequality, pollution/chemicals/spills and nuclear power/weapons etc. Too much technology – cell phones, internet etc. Our world is changing much too fast-it made the world seem small and overcrowded. It's stressing us out!


        the technology, Edward, you've alluded too, has simply made all of these nightmares undeniable. I've learned though the availability of decentralized media (aka, the Internet) that much truth was hidden from my generation. While I'm sure I'd sleep better not knowing what I now do, I'd rather risk knowing the truth over sleeping blissfully like a new born baby…

  • Myme

    What is happening to the Sellafield in UK now? Just saw a brief script on TV that the workers are told to stay home due to increasing radiation. I came to ENENEWS but no mention of Sellafield yet. Anyone knows?

  • pkjn

    Former Japanese prime ministers Hosokawa and Koizumi speak to reporters after they met in Tokyo as Hosokawa will run Tokyo gubernatorial election.
    February 3, 2014 japanCRUSH
    Russia’s national defence force released a top secret document. In Fukushima, on December 31, 2013 story that said there was actually steam rising, and thinking ‘something is odd’ about this story.

    Russia’s national defence force's analyses are saying that it was absolutely a meltdown. America is delivering 15 000 bags of iodine, from the beginning of February 2014. Iodine's arrangement has begun. There are now polar bears, seals and other animals and plants dying, an article about an explosion was released. Another animals and plants in large numbers in the Arctic Sea and other various places. This is surely because of the influence of Fukushima.

  • No Immediate Danger No Immediate Danger

    Uh, just who's threatening those nuke plants? The State Department, of course.

    "F**k The EU" – US State Department Blasts Europe; Revealed As Alleged Mastermind Behind Ukraine Unrest

    Real freakin' classy.

    I do believe we live in a nuanced world. Some real resistance, healthy revolution in my opinion, is at work in Ukraine. Same with the Occupy movement here in the US. I was involved daily with Occupy Portland. At the same time, I know just who knows how to capitalize and influence such movements.

    This is not as simple as Good Guys versus Bad Guys.

  • AirSepTech AirSepTech

    Correction–"Civil War Breaks Out in Ukraine"

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Don't re-lay those paving stones, just yet, Ukrainian Revolutionaries.
    My guess is that you are going to need them again very soon! 🙂

    Amid reports that the Russian flag is flying over Sevastopol, in the Crimea region of eastern Ukraine.
    Amid reports that Russian military forces are being deployed to the region.
    Putin was so busy watching the Russian hockey team get a beatdown, that he neglected to hang onto the strings of his Ukrainian puppet Viktor Yanukovych.
    Can you say "counter-revolution" boys and girls? 😉

  • john dpugh

    Ukraine ; Night wolves and unidentified military men seize key crimea sites

  • Max Sievert Max Sievert

    Ukraine to go nuclear? New govt rep threatens rearmament, US silent

  • Max Sievert Max Sievert

    2014 03.01. / 23:42
    Ukraine's interim president Aleksander Turchynov said Saturday that authorities had boosted security around nuclear facilities, airports and other "strategic facilities" after Russia's parliament approved the deployment of troops into the country. He added that an "action plan" had been put in place "in case of aggression".

  • atomicistheword

    My great fear is that the Ukraine situation is being promoted as a world war three to cover up the negligence against humanity in Japan. People without humanity do these sorts of things. People that torture, alienate and promote hatred of others. I've seen these types often in my life journey.

    Look how quickly the dogs of earth barked over this. There is money in warfare and covering up their nuclear crime an added bonus.

    Beware the dog of mars.