Title: Tepco Says Fukushima Reactor Temperature Breaches Safety Limit
Source: Bloomberg
Author: Tsuyoshi Inajima
Date: Feb 12, 2012 8:15 PM ET
Tepco Says Fukushima Reactor Temperature Breaches Safety Limit
[...] No. 2 reactor pressure vessel rose to 89.2 degrees Celsius (192.56 Fahrenheit) as of 8:00 a.m. today, higher than the 80 degrees limit, Naohiro Omura, a spokesman for the utility, said by phone today. [...]
Temperatures at the bottom of the No. 2 reactor vessel may have risen by about 40 degrees Celsius from 50.7 degrees Celsius since Feb. 1, even as the company increased the coolant being injected into the unit, raising questions about the validity the safety declaration.
[...] possible that unstable water flow into the unit may have kept the coolant from reaching part of melted fuel sufficiently, he said. [...]
Read the report here
sending...
They fool the journelists and the public. Having in mind the cooperation between USA and Japan, and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_and_signature_intelligence
they must know what is really going on and where is the melted fuel! B&B asked the clear mind questions yesterday. And do not forget tepco is on temperature play for the second time! Watch for something else there.
I know that PattiB says that Reactor #2 is a sleight of hand trick, diversion from the real problems over at SFP 4 & #3, but I am no expert, and simply do not understand enough to comment. All I know is, it does not sound good!
Because of the fuel at #3 and #4, MOX, they are the worst worries. But #2 is a problem also:
Fukushima Reactor No.2, THE most Vulnerable Design
The No. 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi is a Mark I (oldest).
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/nuclear/fukushima-reactor-no-2-the-most-vulnerable-design/
Thought so. Thanks.
Agree, Anne. Even the more robust designs did not resist. I was just watching the cranes moving between R3 and R2 with a thread like burden. Measuring devices? And recent events confirm problems in this area. What about the coriums of the two reactors datind somewhere underground? Just a speculation. I can afford it, after so many lies, served from those, who deliver first hand information. I know it is irresponsible, not based on soud facts, but why not share it, if they feed us with lies?
I find it seriously disturbing they bitch and complain about how high the radiation temperature is at Reactor 1 and they say no carbon form can check out the interior.
Is it impossible to use the cranes to punch a bucket sized hole in the top of roof and lower down temperature gauges inside the roof? I must be missing something here…maybe competency of the Japanese scientists. They are like the three blind mice.
SP
How can we kid ourselves this will or can turn out any positive way? I am personally surprised it has taken this long to deteriorate.
If they lose even 'one' link in this fragile chain of command, it could lead to failures in what little they have done to control the other fuel pools and so on. I suspect that the rest could be affected like domino's.
No: 3 is gone! There was a "bigger" bang, and it blew a sky high, no reason to worry that anymore.
#2 is a problem, but minor when compared to SFP4, there's a lot of shit under a sky, no vessels nothing
This is not good. If the temperature keeps rising it could easily build up volatile gasses again. The chance of another nuclear explosion happening directly correlates with the temperature. Certain concentrations of hydrogen and oxygen can cause catastrophic explosions that chain react into nuclear fission. TEPCO likes to keep the lid on the fact that all 4 explosive events were in FACT nuclear in nature. They better get on injecting some boron and fresh water fast. No time to sit around and wait for it all to blow up in their face…AGAIN
It is over 300 Celsius now.
This simple 1 minute form will let you add your voice to the anti-nukes. Money drives nukes, and greed. This battle will be won on emotions and money. Radiation is invisible, you just won't be able to convince that many people of the danger.
Win with emotions and money. Make nuke more expensive to build and operate. Delay the build whenever possible. That scares investors, because their ROI calcs no longer work. And when the payback is delayed, investors get skittish.
http://nukepimp.blogspot.com/2012/02/greenpeace-send-message-to-washington.html
It is around 95 now.
rooks…get out of there, please
I am trying. I get stuck between people going over semantics. We need help to get out of here and my family just talks like they are just watching a movie. I was asked by my mother what I would tell my kids 20 years later if I did not leave. I now know the answer, my family with more resources than most decided that their normalcy was more important than our lives. This is a sad reality. If I was alone I could leave so easily but having three kids and a mortgage has trapped us. My wife is Japanese and if we just flee her entire family will bear the burden of our house loan. This is my head all of my waking moments. I am just fishing for a life line to start over. When I get out of here I will cry for once.
Jingle mail the mortgage. By the time your credit rating tanks you can be somewhere else, no burden on her family. You lose equity and probably won't get a mortgage again, at least for 10-15 years, but you'll
Know you did the right thing for your family…
That is the plan but my family does not have the sense of urgency we do. We need to pay pay off the loan under radar and that means resigning well paying position. We need our backstop with the bridge money to wake up. After we leave, I could care less about my credit rating in Japan. Just need that one bridge and it has been 8 months now.
Its heartbreaking to hear your circumstances.
Clearly something your not alone in.
I had a question. You mentioned your family treats the whole ordeal like they are "watching a movie." IS this the general description of how the people of Japan are treating this circumstance? Which is to say, are most immersed in denial in order to avoid the challenges you are describing in getting out? You say that peoples sense or desire for "normalcy" is trumping the need for people to simply get out. This sounds very likely and to me is an area we need to really focus on. I say this because this feeling is rampid the world over for people facing imminent disaster, whether it be from Fukushima or financial collapse and/or war.
The point being, we need to really find ways to overcome the power of TPTB to render people in effective like deer in headlights in the face of these overwhelming disasters, it could well save lives and help people overcome these challenges.
My best wishes to you Rook, your desciptions really bring it home. I live 5000 miles away and have had people ask me on here why I have not left where I am at, and have struggled with these issues, but they can be no where near as prevalent and stressful as the circumsatnce your facing, so my heart out goes out to you.
Cheers
Kevin
Hi Kevin, I am American and this is how my family views the circumstances from the US. It is not their problem and they have no idea how close they live to a similar outcome in Kansas and Colorado along with CA. My wife just has her parents and they happen to live right in the fallout (0.8 uSv on their beds). My kids can never go there so they are going to move south.
Can you make it back to America with help from your family? They may not under the severity but I am sure someone would understand.
Shame to hear about your inlaws.
I can see why you dont let your children go there.
What an insane industry to bring this into so many peoples lives and you are right about the denial in places around the states where plants are running.
Rooks,
You can send one of your inlaws, if they are supportive with the kids to US on a long vacation at least. That way the kids at least will be protected.
I'm so sorry to hear that. My Japanese friends don't understand the dire situation that is Fukushima. They think I'm making much ado about nothing.
Pulling up roots is never easy and coupled with obligations and essentially giving up security for the unknown can be terrifying.
Frankly, there have been times when I feel it's not real either. It's very difficult to connect danger to something that is unseen, like electricity.
You have my utmost sympathy.
It is certainly almost surreal in that sense isnt it? You talk about this to people and they look at you like you have two heads!
And becuase there is no in your face examples you can point to and the industry is so effective at downplaying these scenarios it is a near impossibility to overcome the denial.
Frustrating and I cannot imagine what it must be like for the folks in Japan.
Truly a dire circumstance.
Every chance I get, I talk about the fallout. Taking a page out of the nuclear industry handbook on brainwashing using the power of suggestion.
If nothing, at least it will have planted the thought in their heads and perhaps spur them on to do more research on their own.
Alice,
I could not reply to your post about talking up the fallout, the option was not there to do so.
I give you credit for doing this. ITs not easy and often comes at great personel expense. I have read often here how people are ostracized and isolated for doing so.
Where are you on the planet? I find it geography quite relevant to this. The responses differ depending on where you are. Most folks where I am at are completely in denial, yet shortly after the explosions I could not get my hands on iodine for myu daughter, sold out. I also recall a young couple behind me once shopping who must have bought all the spinach they could get their hands on.
People are aware here (Vancouver Island), but rarely discuss it. Its never in the news, accept for the odd damage control piece.
Its smells alot like the fog of war.
Hi Kevin,
I'm in California and yes, I can relate to not being able to pick up and leave because honestly, I can't afford the means to do so.
What I find interesting is that some will listen but since, as you mentioned, it's not a tangible thing like an avalanche, it doesn't quite sink in.
If that reactor 2 crumbles, it could start a domino effect that may have far reaching consequences and that scares the bejesus out of me.
I'm in the bay area and was at three gatherings this last week where Fukushima came up in casual conversation. I think many people are quietly aware of the whole unpleasant mess, but feel helpless against it. At a party in Berkeley I overheard some pissed off people not so quietly expressing their feelings around the fire pit. Had a good time and I managed to throw in a joke about 'cold shutdown' which got a good laugh. It's nice to discover like minded people
It is so real that we only buy imported meat and produce from Kyushu. I cannot control what the school does so I need out for my kids sake alone. I measured my house and environment and compared it to Chernobyl. We live in the voluntary evac zones.
I presume "voluntary" evacuation zone means no support or assistance to do so?
Thank you Alice!
Hey rooks, couldn't you sell your house with the mortgage? As it sounds, you'll never be truly happy there anyway…
Damn it, possession sucks.
Please tell us if we can be of any help!!
The Japanese do not buy and sell like the rest of the world due to limited space. All mortgages are called a 35 year flat loan. If we have bridge money we can leave and try and rent out our house. If you have ideas please email me at …@yahoo.com. If we connect I will give you a secure address. Thanks for offering B&B.
I'll send you an email anyway, with or without brilliant ideas…..
hold tight, rooks.
You know what might possibly bring people out of their stupor?
Start connecting with anyone who comprehend the imminent danger of remaining in Japan. Get together with those.
When you have a group with common goals, you feel more energized so you can come up with a means to leave. Together.
Excellent!
And for those folks who cannot get out, get your children out! I know how hard that decision would be, but people should really consider it.
Christopher Busby put together a group to help children, maybe there is some resouces through that can help whole families likes Rooks.
That's pretty much it Alice.
The thing is that people have been lied to over and over and I happen to work in Tokyo but live in Chiba. If you have never seen a video about "evacuate Fukushima" please look on YouTube. People are brainwashed but I understand as then have no way out. If you watch any of these you will not be able to hold back tears. This is reality and I am ashamed I was ignorant up to 3/11.
I suspect the term 'hypnotised' is more accurate. "Brainwashing" sounds a bit harsh. I have the same trouble in Australia creating awareness. But how to overcome the natural human subjectivity?? How is this done??
Maybe i can hypnotise by putting big pictures at bus stops, and the food market, but i am not rich enough. I am not ashamed i do not have enough money to hypnotise 1000 people or even just my own family. So this subjectivity is not really a crime, but it can be a danger i must admit to myself.
A friend went to Japan last week to take advantage of ultra cheap air fair and the snow. He is taking his son. They are actually in Japan right now.
Crikey, strewth..I got in trouble for suggesting to him it might not be a good idea. So i take the bad end of the stick to give him good end of stick. This is normal. I got clobbered with the bad end of the stick.
He does not picture the possibility of radioactivity, he has powerful pictures of snow skiing with his son together and so on for example. Or pictures in his mind from the travel brochure.
Very old quote:"Isn't it all one to the poor flies how they are killed? By a kick of the hooves of horned devils, or by a stroke of the beautiful wings of divine angels?"
Here is an elaboration on what Alice said in more detail.
A bit more complicated but it is at least food for thought. This is similar to me. Hope you do not mind rooks and
Alice.
"Why do we need a group, a club? Instead of an answer, here an Eastern metaphor used by Gurdjieff and Ouspenskij:
"… man is in prison, so what can he wish for, what can he desire? If he is a more or less sensible man, he can wish for only one thing—to escape. But even before he can formulate this desire, that he wants to escape, he must become aware that he is in prison. If he does not realize that he is in prison, he cannot wish to escape. Then, when he formulates this wish, he begins to realize the possibilities of escape, and he understands that, by himself, he cannot escape, because it is necessary to dig under walls, and things like that. He realizes that first of all he must have some people who would like to escape with him—a small group of people. So he realizes that a certain number of people can perhaps escape. But all cannot escape. One cannot and all cannot, but a small number of people can. Again, in what conditions? He comes to the conclusion that it is necessary to have help. Without that they cannot escape. They must have maps, files, tools and so on. so they must have help from outside. This is exactly, almost literally, the position of man."
P. D. Ouspensky: The Fourth Way
Good stuff, Spectro. Forgive me if I use it to deny reality a bit while I wait for updates about conditions in #2.
Gurdjieff's writing made a huge impression on me when I first encountered it. Your example reminds me also of Plato's famous cave allegory. We are all in the position of his protagonist when it comes to raising consciousness about nukes. A song lyric says "not that they could not, or they would not, they just did not understand." (Pilgrimage to Paradise, Ian and Sylvia Tyson).
I'm reminded also of Borges' notion that the most difficult maze to traverse is a wide open space, because there are absolutely no guidelines, boundaries, markers, edges…. We're all facing that kind of maze – humanity has never really needed to look at self-extinction before, except from an armchair perspective or in films like "On the Beach".
This time it's real, and so far most of humanity just pretends it isn't happening.
Anyone looking for a thesis topic?
rooks let me know if you want me to remove the email address after a period of time. thanks very much for your help over the last month or so.
Yes, you may remove it.
rooks,….might I suggest you talk to 'Dogleg", when he posts again. He, one month ago, was having the very same problem. He wanted to GO,…with the wife and kids,…his wife did not see the urgency apparently either, and was resistant to go. Doleg made the decision the save his kids IRREGARDLESS of his wife's wishes,…praying she would 'come to her senses', (my words). She DID!
They are happily on their way to an attempted new BETTER start a safer distance away from this nightmare.
This is the hard stance you MUST TAKE Man,…you ARE THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE,….bank note, or no bank note! Your in-laws will NOT understand,…DO NOT WAIT UNTIL THEY DO!
Please friend! Move those babies! It's your job, your duty!
Stilljill, I will. Once Dogleg gets on I will approach. My inlaws understand here and have been telling us to get out if we find help.
rooks,…that is GREAT news! I thought the inlaws were pulling you guys to stay. That's one hurdle over!
Time is of the essence, as you know well,…so I shall pray HARD that you get a GREAT answer FAST!
Look at the reactor 3 temp graph showing the past 100 days….looks as if it's speeding up recently, isn't it
http://atmc.jp/plant/temperature/?n=2
Hi BreadAndButter
The graph only goes to 100, then what? How high can it go?
How much more of this radiation can anyone take?
If anyone knows how to control these monsters, please speak up now.
Shame on anyone who votes for more nuclear power plants. These are dangerous and a threat to us, and the environment.
The radiation from these plants are hurting our future generations, who could be talented and geniuses'.
Put an end to nuclear plants, before it puts an end to all of us.
+1
shutdown not meltdown
Hi BreadAndButter
I agree with you>> "shutdown not meltdown"
×3
They TEPCO said 94.9 C this noon time,but it again blame the mal-function of themometer? anyone here know what they said in Japanese:
http://multi.phpspezial.de/proxy/index.php?wa=aHR0cDovL21haW5pY2hpLmpwL3NlbGVjdC9qaWtlbi9uZXdzLzIwMTIwMjEzazAwMDBlMDQwMDYwMDAwYy5odG1sP3RvcHJhbms9b25lZGF5
meltdown cannot turn to shutdown
Hi dear jones
We were talking about putting an end to nuclear plants. I believe she was saying shut them down before anymore meltdowns.
No worry my fish tank still reading 28 degree C so every is fine.
surely if one reactor goes it will take the others with it? like a house of cards.
TEPCO was measuring the electrical resistance of the thermocouple before the temperature suddenly shot up to 285 degrees at 3PM.
Resistance 500 to 530 ohm.
The instrument has totally failed, says TEPCO's Matsumoto.
Thanks God that TEPCO finally find something failed is a GOOD NEW.
Tepco finally managed to disable the gauge through "testing". Doesnt matter the whole thing is/was a shell game to distract from R3 and SFP4, CSFP, and R4.
That was my take also, farawayfan. Then I got to wondering whether they could actually sink that low. Then I got thinking "yes, they could."
If they actually did – and if the temperature really is rising, then their ploy will be revealed shortly. By then we'll all have more serious things on our minds.
http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/fukushima-np/f1/images/2u_temp2.pdsensor must be broken, it now reads 275 C
scroll down to page 3, read the column at the right bottom…..
2/13 17:00 275.9 31.4 32.4 33.3 34.2 35.3
thanks mungo, good find! I wonder if the thermometer is "maxed out" at a certain point?
Or did Tepco make these insane readings up to convince everyone it's an instrument failure?
will we ever know….(don't think so)
game over.
noooo….honestly, I don't think so…really, to me the malfunctioning story sounds reasonable.
* i hope
temp now 275 C
http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/fukushima-np/f1/images/2u_temp2.pdf
Just WONDERS IF a underground nuclear type explosion throwing stuff everywhere. We do not know where the core is Mark
There is no more shut-down, after the fuel rod melt-down.
and After the fuel rods melt-down, it is not fuel rods any more.
It is already an alive nuclear volcano ,AND volcano will not in any human control.
That is all the logical behind this Fukushima nuclear volcano now.
Go to Wiki, for volcano, it describe all about volcano, and can be applied to this nuclear volcano of Fukushima, from the nuke eyes we can understand what it is now.
The difference is size of this volcano only.
But for the radiation and fall-out ,hot particles, we can not see with our eyes, and its impact too…. only time will tell you, if you do not want to listen now.
This does Not look good for any of us!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IZvtEf_D3zg
"Because we haven't been able to grasp how the nuclear fuel in the cores has been distributed, it's impossible to rule out localized high temperature spots," says Kazuhiko Kudo, a special professor of nuclear engineering at Kyushu University. "As the high radiation rules out installing new temperature sensors, if the last two sensors (in the No. 2 reactor) fail, the situation will be much more serious indeed."
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20120213p2a00m0na015000c.html
damn right
Interesting snippet, B&B. "the high radiation rules out installing new temperature sensors" – but it didn't prevent an endoscopy. That seems odd to me.
Professor Kudo's remarks puzzle me generally. He feels that loss of the last two sensors would make things much more serious. I feel that changes in what the sensors are measuring are what will make things more serious (rather than the measurement of the changes).
I say this because their response to the now "failed" sensor was first to add water and boron with no apparent effect, then to ignore their own requirement that "cold shutdown conditions" must be denied when the temperature exceeded 80C, then to say the sensor was probably defective since it was telling them bad news, then to "test" the sensor until it "broke". Meanwhile, regardless of what antics they perform in response to sensor readouts, the corium does what it does, completely out of their control.
Loss of more sensors would change nothing except their spin tactics, I think.
If it is not broken, we will know it very soon. If it is, then "nothing" (not more than already) will happen. Simple as that if you ask me.
Morning – Cloud is erased above reactor 2 on Tepco live camera
http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/02/cloud-is-erased-above-reactor-2-on-tepco-live-camera/
radiation up…http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/02/fall-out-intensively-increased-in-fukushima/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FukushimaDiary+%28Fukushima+Diary%29
ugh mungo…and I was just about to hope that – you know!
What a mess. Thanks for posting.
Wonder when it will show on the atmc.jp page.
Mungo, that is a huge jump. They (tptb everywhere) must know about it – but they are still silent.
I just hope it's some kind of error.
aigeezer, we know there is some kind of error!!
The Chinese saying goes that: No Coffin, No Cry.
The truth here in Japan, Living in Coffin, No Cry.
This is like the chronic lier, who strumbles and fetters about, forgetting which lies they have already told and keeps contradicting the previous string of B.S. We cannot beleive one thing that we are and have been told…
truthseek,…yes,…their lips are moving=lies!