Published: February 12th, 2012 at 2:42 am ET
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>> UPDATE: *Now 90+°C?* Update as of 2:45 am ET on Feb. 12: Asahi Reporter: Tepco graph shows spike above 90°C at Reactor No. 2 -- Exactly how high have temperatures gone?
Title: JUST IN: #Fukushima Reactor 2 RPV Bottom Temperature at 82 Degrees Celsius
Source: EX-SKF
Date: Feb 11, 2012
Fukushima Reactor 2 RPV Bottom Temperature at 82 Degrees Celsius
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Decision was made at 2:20PM that the the condition of “the temperature at the bottom of the Reactor Pressure Vessel at 80 degrees Celsius and below” was not met; the condition is specified in the safety regulations.
Read the report here
Title: Temperature rising at No.2 reactor
Source: NHK
Date: Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:48 +0900 (JST)
The temperature at the No.2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant keeps rising even after the injection of more cooling water on Saturday night. [...]
TEPCO is set to dump in boric acid to prevent any nuclear criticality later on Sunday and increase the volume of cooling water by 3 tons per hour.
Under new guidelines, the company must keep reactor temperatures at 80 degrees or below, given thermometers’ margin of error of up to 20 degrees.
Read the report here
Published: February 12th, 2012 at 2:42 am ET
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Are we seeing any info if the other 2 thermometers show higher temps now? This is highly bizarre.
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Why would you want to see more thermometers now B&B? It is the honorable thing now.
“Boric acid,……death to neutrons, but the Samurai sword for reactors”.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/gen-letters/1988/gl88005.html
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I was just wondering – as Ex-SKF’s latest post here
http://www.ex-skf.blogspot.com/
shows a drawing with the positions of the 3 heat gauges…2 of them show equivalent readings, one shows rising temps. So
a) are the 2 showing the same reading somehow connected to show the same reading? Are they defect “in the same way”? Seems unlikely.
b) if one heat gauge keeps rising and rising, the other two (assuming they work) should at some time also show at least a rising trend – but they don’t. They indicate falling temperatures (maybe due to increased cooling?).
I’m worried just like you, I just wonder why it CAN’T be an instrument failure this time. Any opinions / thoughts?
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Nice observation B&B !!…ahaaa!
Agreed, i was also using your question as an opportunity to quote the important document/minutes (Once again.) i found on the subject of “Boric acid”…(Damning.)
Yes the actual geometry of the layout and how the thermometers are arranged might be indicating an increase in convection/heat exchange rate now that more coolant is being circulated at higher rates.
The thermometers further from the hot spot are being cooled or in area that is being sufficiently cooled, and the ‘temperature differential’ is lower.
This might account for the drop in temperature in the other thermometers.
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A side note on my newbie knowledge on Boric acid and meltdowns/etc.
From the perspective of the Boric acid. It could be said that it is moderating neutrons at a higher rate and so the parts of what is left of the reactor comprising ‘intact-rod-assemblies’ is allowing the Boric acid to flow around them and more importantly ‘in-between-and-around-them’.
The same cannot be said about the melted coriums if the Boric acid is trying to moderate a pile of broken rods without sufficient ‘gap’ to obtain an effective rate of moderation of neutrons..
In this case, the Boric acid cannot do it’s job by getting in between the compacted rods or rubble where the gaps are smaller or non existent.
For Boric acid to work, it needs to get in between the rods. I doubt if it useful for moderating coriums or piles of rubble without sufficient gaps between the nuclear material or by just sitting on top of it.
In my understanding, it is useless for moderating coriums and only works on intact rod assemblies.
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Thanks, sounds reasonable…learning here every day, though I never thought I’d ever be interesting in boric acid’s effect on nuclear fuel assemblies…
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Me too BreadAndButter. Thanks for pointing out there are more than one thermometer. Straight to the jugular. I was hardly aware, so now i know & share your concern further.
The Boric acid doc (above) was pretty mind blowing when there is a knowledge vacuum, so i am still a bit frazzed-out by it. It will take me a week to recover.
PattieB picked it up straight away earlier when i first posted it, and a few other newzer’s.
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I feel sorry for the poor workers trying to wrestle with this monster ..(man-made monster).
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The “reported” rise in temperature is very worrying. If they are confessing to 82, then we know it’s much higher. Seems like this could be the beginning of what we’ve all been fearing. It might be wise for those on the West Coast to keep the car tanked up and a “get out of town” bag ready. Though honestly, when you think about it, with all the MOX fuel on site, where in the northern hemisphere is going to be safe? The movie “On the Beach” comes to mind.
Situating multiple reactors and spent fuel pools in close proximity to one another has to rank up there as one of the stupidest ideas of all time.
I truly hope when I wake up in the morning, that the boric acid has worked.
Most of all, I am so sorry for the children of the world. Sleep well everyone. May we wake up to good news.
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Excellent point, noho, that is exactly what i was thinking. If they cannot get reactor 2 under control they may have to pull the workers out and then…. look out.
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@nohobear
“Situating multiple reactors and spent fuel pools in close proximity to one another has to rank up there as one of the stupidest ideas of all time.”
Agreed. Isn’t this exactly what they are doing in Georgia now?
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Uh oh, it’s going to blow.
My hat off to the workers but it looks like a lost cause.
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Why is everyone assuming the one (rising) thermometer is correct, while the ones which show steady temps are broken?
Shouldn’t we see by now rising temps at all heat gauges??
Just try to keep a cool mind here…
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Hi B&B, I do not know but if one is malfunctioning the others should be considered to be malfunctioning as there is no way to verify otherwise.
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Beyond what Rooks stated, what would you submit is causing the other to rise? The most reasonable first conclusion for multiple gauges is one running contra to its natural environment while another is unresponsive is that the one running contra is functioning. If I am monitoring a pressure cooker, irrespective of whether I know there is a heat source or not, I am going to assume the one rising is the one working and the one doing nothing likely not functioning until I know there is no heat source. I don’t know the specifics of the gauges involved, defaults, error cycles, or otherwise, but that would be the most logical initial conclusion to draw for safety purposes anyway. They aren’t making snow cones.
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82 degrees or any other is not a magic number although if i think about it, i imagine that the source of the heat is probably at a higher differential temperature. Probably well above 100 degrees C
I would like to know what is left in/of number 2 reactor.
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Hi B&B. I think people are inclined to believe this gauge is correct because of Tepco’s track record. In the past, they have used the “defective gauge” ploy at every opportunity, and I speculate the only reason they are not using it now is that they know the temperature actually is rising. They always know much more than they release to the public, and their behavior this time suggests they are worried. If they are worried, then probably the rest of us should be even more worried.
Like you, I had been thinking that the three gauges should show some commonality of trend, but that could only occur if they are “connected” thermally – sampling the “same mass of stuff”, so to speak. Given all the speculation/spin/leaks about corium possibly shifting, I imagine the gauges are sampling different entities.
If Tepco knows the details, they’re not telling the public.
In any case, we watch and wait.
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Hey aigeezer, thanks for your thoughts on this. I guess you’re right about Tepcoclowns track record and them seeming worried right now…hm.
During the past hours, i have the impression that the heating process is somehow gaining speed? Don’t know.
It’s hard to watch, and only bearable with
*cookies.
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so I guess that the “cold shutdown” political PR campaign just went out of the window then … since the thermal probe has a 20 deg uncertainty …
I wonder about the impact that adding all that ACID will have on the long term corrosion rate of the steel vessel that still holds at least some of that radioactive mess in at the present time … the acid along with all that sea salt plus heat/moisture/high radiation are sure to render the chemical properties of the material closer to brittle art clay rather than steel … but I guess there is no “long-term” with this thing anyways … given the apparent total inability of the people in charge to do anything constructive about the clusterf**ck of a travesty in progress …
so on a daily basis we are left with the stark certainty of impending doom and nothing we do will make any difference in the grand scheme of things … very depressing and hard to live like that … I still work and try to keep healthy, but have lost any hope for the future … even if by some miracle all other NPPs would be shut down tomorrow and the thousands of tons of lingering waste safely disposed of (even though no one knows how to do that) the steaming pile of death-dealing crap at Fuku will make sure that all future generations (however many make it at all … and IF) will forever (in human time terms) carry such a toxic load inside them that they will be lucky to be functional enough to survive … that is of course if the natural systems that make life possible on this planet don’t collapse thus rendering it inhospitable to us and most other living beings … that is the thought I get up with everyday … sorry for the pessimism, but it is getting really hard to be up-beat … I hate being human, maybe being a flat worm or something would be a lot easier now … I have lost all joy and desire in life and am but an empty shell devoid of all delusions … and it looks like things can only get worse … one can only hope for a…
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The situation in Japan is very bad, but for a little perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lquok4Pdk
We’ve been nuking ourselves for decades. Russia and the US have each exploded hundreds and hundreds of bombs on their own countries! If one or all of the reactors at Fukushima blows, or if they continue to spew radioactive materials over the world for years, it’s not the first time, and it won’t be the last. If you are becoming seriously depressed about all this, maybe it’s time to look away for a while.
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Here i s some perspective on Boric Acid.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/gen-letters/1988/gl88005.html
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Things that make you go hmmmmm.
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Glad you went “Hmmm” sandman…Roger that!
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i hear you sandman, given that we have been nuking ourselves for decades then fukushima could be the final dose that humans can take- accumulation being what it is..
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It’s all the rest of life on this planet that I grieve for, not humans.
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… swift and painless end.
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I understand Tepco just ordered a tanker full of Drano to break up the corium into thousands of miniature “elephants feet”. An hour later, they have a fleet of huge C-137′s that will cap old #2 with Kitty Litter when the temp hits 85. The theory is that the K Litter will force the little, manageable feet to flow into the water table and the Pacific….out of sight, out of mind.
OK, I know its BS, but you gotta fight fire with fire. The only thing leaking more than radiation at Fuku is bull shit.
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@dukenukem4ever… amen to that. i have no joy left at all.
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The radiation monster will probably get us, but I am not going to allow it to take away the last of my enjoyment days.
This is the day which the LORD has made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
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Not painless or swift…
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I wish I could post a picture by phone but NHK just reported this and they showed the corium as some kind of poop or blob at the bottom of the initial containment with water surrounding it like a pool. It was filled to the brim with water wihout any structural defects. This is how the Japanese get news.
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Hey rooks, thanks for your input!! Do you have the impression that anyone is really nervous about the whole issue?
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Hi B&B, 99 percent is not worried is my impression. If you bring it up they will opine but the superficial impression is that no one is worried. It is hard to admit your life has completely changed especially within Japan. I am less worried about an explosion than it just falling into the ocean. Who knows though? We are in this predicament for the very first time.
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Media is looking foolish not reporting like they should, on this major disaster.
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We should be getting breaking news about this.
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Just think if the MSM broke with this. Maybe people would have to wake up and that is their biggest fear.
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Hi rooks
Must protect Nuclear Power at all cost, just like Oil Corporations..GRRRRRRR.
Energy Corporations have a hold on the World and make people look foolish.
NO MORE NUCLEAR POWER
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Tepco say this ” On February
12, 2012, we conducted a sampling of gas in the gas management system in
the Primary Containment Vessel of Unit 2 and the result is that around
the entry of the system, Xe-135 was below the detection limit (9.5 x 10-2
Bq/cm3). As it is below 1 Bq/cm3, the criterion to judge re-criticality,
we have confirmed that it has not reached re-criticality.”
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Good Morning, If I am not Mistaken didn’t the people open 2 and insert a probe, Insert a Temp Gauge into the same hole take some readings
Mark
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No readings just a probe as far as I know.
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Good evening everyone!
I may be wrong, and this might be a really alarming development, but I find it extremely suspicious that this new alert originates from TEPCO, the very people who have until now devoted all their efforts to hiding and minimizing the truth of the situation and had decided that they no longer needed to hold press conferences.
If the group in charge is universally viewed as deceitful and incompetent, it might consider the following PR ploy to improve its image: create an artificial scare, call unscheduled press conferences and have the whole world holding their breath for a while, and then magically come up with a “solution” to correct one thermometer and appear as the providential heroes.
Of course, we have to follow developments, but let us not forget about other units, the unknown underground work of the coriums and the fragile suspended Spent Fuel Pools with their monstrous content.
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That’s worth thinking about, TepcoSievert. My take is that it is unlikely to be a PR ploy, although certainly possible. Tepco’s behavior so far has always been a simple “fake good” game – they pretend things are better than they are until they are caught out or circumstances force them to admit something. Your (clever) model would have them “fake bad” then fix the phony problem for a PR coup. I like it a lot as an armchair model, but I speculate that Tepco is too busy – too distracted – to do such a thing mid-crisis.
If they do – if they indulge in such PR gamesmanship mid-crisis – it could really backfire on them if the crisis blows up completely but also if the crisis resolves and everyone eventually writes their memoirs about it. Short-term gain for them at best, but that would not be out of character.
Thanks for the chance to think about it, and thanks especially for your last sentence – a reminder that there is a lot more going on than the temperature changes in R2.
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@TepcoSievert
Situations placed under a microscope are often meant to distract you from something they don’t want you to think about.
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There you go,…..NoPrevarcation,….seems like they threw us a bone to go chase. Whenever they point us in one direction,….(the right hand),…I train my eyes and ears on their (left hands)!
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90′C in Reactor 2…or 102 C !.. Time (long past)to WAKE UP for the sake of children, if not for your apathetic, head in the sand selves. Get them the hell out of that hell hole formerly known as Japan…NOW! http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/02/90%E2%84%83-in-reactor2-emergency-press-conference-of-nisa-live/
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Just looking at the webcam video of TBS/JNN — those reactors are ALIVE and active. So don’t believe its a “staged” situation which allows TEPCO to be the knight in shining armor or a samuri (Samuri Spirit). More of a sad, Laurel and Hardy group..or Keystone Cops. S.T.U.P.I.D.
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Correction 120 C
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