Professor: Fukushima material to be washing up for years on West Coast — “The fish are going to have some in them” — “People have the right to know what’s there” — “Probably not” enough to worry about

Published: January 15th, 2014 at 4:36 pm ET
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158 comments


Orange County Register, Jan. 14, 2014: Researchers to test for Fukushima fallout […] it could continue for a couple years**. “[…] a lot of people have called me,” [Cal. State University of Long Beach professor Steven Manley] said. “People who live along the coastline would ask me, ‘Is it safe to eat fish out of the ocean?’” […] Manley and about 50 others will collect samples of giant and bull kelp to test for two types of cesium, a major contaminant flowing out of the reactor, he said. […] Manley said radioactive material, in any amount, from the Fukushima plant is projected to wash up on West Coast shores into 2016 or 2017**.

**A recent study says the contamination will continue until the mid-2020s. Also be aware that this forecast only took into account the first month of radioactive releases from Fukushima, yet the flow has been ongoing since March 2011 with no end in sight.

KQED (NPR), Jan. 15, 2014: […] Steven Manley, a biology professor at California State University, Long Beach who created Kelp Watch 2014 […] is to measure radiation levels in kelp three times in multiple locations between the Oregon border and Baja California from mid February through next winter and make the results public. […] attention is directed to the radiation traveling in ocean currents, which are much slower than the jet stream. […] Manley and volunteers from 19 institutions will send their kelp samples to Kai Vetter, a professor at the University of California, Berkeley and head of the Applied Nuclear Physics program at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory […] A week after the accident, for example, they reported that a person would have to drink 632 liters of Berkeley rainwater – 166 gallons – to be exposed to the same level of radiation as a passenger experiences during a round-trip flight between San Francisco and Washington D.C. […]

Prof. Vetter: ‘The concentration of radioactive materials which will be washed ashore here has no impact whatsoever on our daily life […] “The concentration of radioactive materials which will be washed ashore here has no impact whatsoever on our daily life […] The levels we are measuring, they will not be harmful. They will not have any measurable health impact on humans or any detrimental effects in marine biology.”

Prof. Manley: “I’ve gotten calls from people who are coming here to surf, people who live along the coastline, asking me, ‘Is it safe to go in the water? […] Part of the reason for doing this is because the public is very freaked out by all this talk of radioactivity […] If they can actually see the numbers and a commentary as to what they mean, hopefully that’ll put them at ease. […] If it gets into the kelp, certain fish feed directly on the kelp. Other fish feed indirectly by eating other organisms. The fish are going to have some in them […] Now, is it enough to worry about? Probably not. But people have the right to know what’s there.”

See also: [intlink id=”npr-and-california-department-of-public-health-appear-on-document-with-nuclear-related-u-s-entities-that-are-working-together-with-tepco-to-disseminate-fukushima-r” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

More information on ‘Kelp Watch’: [intlink id=”california-professor-imperative-we-monitor-for-any-radioactive-contaminants-that-will-be-arriving-this-year-in-ocean-from-fukushima-l-a-times-claims-levels-are-declining-fails-to-inform” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Published: January 15th, 2014 at 4:36 pm ET
By

158 comments

Related Posts

  1. NBC: Head of radiation testing program on West Coast says Fukushima plume could threaten ecosystems — The effect on marine life? “We don’t know, whatever is in the kelp will get in bodies of those animals also” (VIDEO) March 7, 2014
  2. ‘Significant’ amount of radioactive seawater to hit Southern California? Expected on beaches in near future — Fukushima contamination may be ‘pervasive’ across food chain (AUDIO) January 23, 2014
  3. UC Berkeley Nuclear Prof.: My wife’s “very concerned” about Fukushima impact in U.S., my children are also concerned, as is public… I am too — His ‘Kelp Watch’ Co-founder: “We’d all be better off if this material didn’t exist and wasn’t coming over, but… nothing we can do about it” (AUDIO) February 6, 2014
  4. Study Author: California iodine-131 probably double or triple what we reported April 5, 2012
  5. Professor: “Fukushima spillage affects the life of the world ocean”; Must have very careful control of all Pacific seafood without exception — Gov’t Scientist: “It is a huge question” — Biologist: “The public wants to know… People think there’s a conspiracy” February 6, 2014

158 comments to Professor: Fukushima material to be washing up for years on West Coast — “The fish are going to have some in them” — “People have the right to know what’s there” — “Probably not” enough to worry about

  • Ontological Ontological

    "If they can actually see the numbers and a commentary as to what they mean, hopefully that’ll put them at ease. […] If it gets into the kelp, certain fish feed directly on the kelp. Other fish feed indirectly by eating other organisms. The fish are going to have some in them […] Now, is it enough to worry about?"
    Called bio accumulation, "some" in them builds up, and hell no to any fish ever again thanks.

    • jump-ball jump-ball

      'certain fish feed directly on the kelp. Other fish feed indirectly by eating other organisms':

      Hillary's gov't answer: WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?.

  • bwoodfield bwoodfield

    All these studies, analysis and stats annoy the crap out of me because they go by the initial release of radioactivity but don't take into account that the contamination has been continuing since March 2011 and actually increasing as time goes on.

    • Ontological Ontological

      When an engineer hears "cold shut down" they dismiss concerns. Even if it was a lie. So those tiny amounts they assure us of depositing from far away, are based on a lie. More "flash bulb physics".

  • theloons

    "Probably not enough to worry about" Right……

    Just like this is probably not enough to worry about too:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8SdLFxBY0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUNstjJ7Cr3PvpzPj4MU_acQ

  • Canuck1

    So they're saying radiation from the leak is the same as an airplane radiation ride? ARE THEY KIDDING? You mean we have been drinking and eating radiation during our flights too? Am I going nuts?

    • Ontological Ontological

      That reality has been a difficult journey for me, I had skull cancer, many trips to UCLA included x ray machine security scans, the flight, to and back. On top of all the CAT scans etc. All knowing about FUFU, I still am glowing. Yes VERY scary! Just remember the human immune can handle the scintillation from nuts. until they become full of soil based toxins of course. One note however, my dentist has not insisted on x rays as of late, he did agree Fukushima is a threat.

      • socref

        the human immune system can handle the low levels from Fukushima as well.

        • artika rama

          Scoref human immune system can deal with chemical and biological agents , can do absolutely nothing against radiation which is a PHYSICAL agent . Radiation is NOT a chemical . it's NOT a toxin . THIS IS BASIC SCIENCE ,,,
          I know I keep repeating myself but these kinds of misinformation needs to be corrected by someone otherwise people visiting this page might think there is trtuth in what you are talking about .
          The only interaction with human immune system and radiation is the first one being minimized by the second one . NOTHING ELSE !
          there are no known immune defense mechanisms against radiation . PERIOD
          There are mechanisms to get rid of dead / mutated cells ( BIOLOGICAL ) ONLY AFTER they are damaged by radiation .
          Nothing to do against radiation . No antigens , no enzymes no antibodies no immuneglobulins no white no leukocytes no macrophages no plateletes NOTHING against radiation . IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT . BIOLOGY AND RADIATION ARE ON DIFFERENT UNIVERSES , THEY CANNOT INTERACT ,
          this is total bulls,,t .

          • jump-ball jump-ball

            Excellent ar for addressing the hidden weakness of the psychotic 'knockout punch' braniac: THE INARTICULATE MAJOR PREMISE.

          • socref

            The human body can repair low low radiaition. We built up a resistance to it in the womb. Our mother;s source term was the largest we ever faced in our lives, and when we were most vulnerable.

            http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2011/12/20/low-dose-radiation/

            You and I disagree. Im just stating my opinion.

            • artika rama

              socref I have already explained it several times. I give up .
              If you want to discuss about these issues , you should AT LEAST learn some basic physiology , and some pathology .just the basics. What is immune system , how it works . What are DNA repair mechanisms etc .
              Otherwise it has no sense in these kinds of discussions . Its like talking to a five year old about quantum mechanics.
              It just doesnt work that way , On one hand you are talking about DNA repair mechanisms , then you mention immune system , then you throw them all into the same pot mix them up and start talking about radiation . Radiation is a physical property , immune system can NOT DO ANYTHING about it , period . Its absurd to say such things. Can i take a bucket of water and soap and wash the electricity clean ? Thats how absurd your statements are. I cant even take you serious enough to discuss anything anymore .
              another thing .
              Just one research hypothesizing about their own interpretation of the facts is not the golden rule . There are many research papers stating just the opposite as well . You cant just cherry pick the ones you like and disregard the rest .
              You should try to have an open mind to the alternative . You cant FIRST make up your mind and THEN try to find out research about an issue .
              It should be the other way around , you should try to read both pros and cons , and then try to make your OWN judgement and draw your own conclusions.
              I don t like all those insults and attacks…

        • daddyfixit daddyfixit

          key word: low levels. when my counter spikes here in florida it is because of "low levels" from fuku… what does that mean for all the strawberry farms in cali???

          PS: i dont consider 2 uSv/hr spikes in rainfall "low levels"

        • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

          Yea~~~h, no.

          Even if the levels of radiation were low in the beginning, the amounts coming out of Fukushima after 3 years have increased to above negligible levels. Not only this, but all of that crap has been accumulating and it matters little whether the readings are low at a given instant, the amounts that have accumulated already are sizable enough to kill off an entire sardine population off of America's West Coast.

          Keep up the optimism though, we're all going to need it this year.

        • Ontological Ontological

          Soc for a short time maybe. To make THAT claim for me is Ludacris. I am NOT healthy I AM NOT going to live more than 5 to 10 (that's ave survival for skull cancer after one year). My thyroid is trashed in the year since because I was stripped of every last ability to resist infection. If I catch even a cold I will probably suffer immune break down and death. This was how I was instructed on release of the hospital. You do not speak for anyone but you. My leg is mamed and I will require a scooter or electric chair soon, as it has become very hard to even walk! YOU WILL GET THIS SHIT MISTER SOC! I will wish that one you. Soc you have come around since you were exposed by those whom post here. You barged in took over called me hundreds of names and when you could not shred me in any way. You resorted to bully tactics. BULLY you will NEVER take the pebble from MY hand "grassghopper" I was working in a high tech. field before you were even BORN! Please become human and realize this is a dangerous situation. You could at least say a prayer for those in Japan suffering. You sure the hell, don't seem to care about Americans.

          • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

            True that, he hasn't even shown any sympathy for people getting the real shit-end of the stick in this disaster. It seems like he comes on here just to refute our mediocre understanding of physics and chemistry, because obviously we're retarded like that. Why do people like Socref insist on trying to convince people like me with endless links and posts of data just to prove a point. If he was just stating his opinion as he claims, he wouldn't try so hard, arguing every third post. What we need now is to mobilise and fight the nuclear industry, not waxing intellectual about whether or not this or that element is absorbed into this or that organ, and statistics and data showing how much radiation our poor environment and its inhabitants can "theoretically" take.

            It is important to be fundamentally educated on the subject, sure, but what this really means is that you need to understand one simple fact: nuclear industry produces radiation; radiation can do bad things in large doses; we are now seeing a large dose of radiation escaping Fukushima; the ocean have dilute said radiation, but the ocean is finite, it isn't a galaxy; we are officially screwed unless we do something NOW. There. Simple.

            Also, you have my heartfelt encouragement – I have full confidence that you'll outlive Socref by a long shot. People like you should be regarded as living proof of the dangers of radiation – ut Socref will probably say that you stood too close to a microwave or something.

          • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

            Ontological: I often remember the words spoken by those who have suffered at the hands of fellow human beings; stalin, pol-pot, hitler, etc. "There is evil in the world – true evil." I pray people realize this fact before it's too late.

          • Mark Wonclunker

            Ontological: Could I ask something personal, but I will understand if you don't want to reply.

            Did your doctors concur with your belief that you got a fuel-flea from Fukushima, and did they find it? Is it in a glass bottle somewhere as evidence?

            [I am assuming that any biopsies or flesh removal would show the hot particle via a radiological examination.]

  • davidh7426 davidh7426

    You've got to love how they've started to hedge their bets by adding qualifiers like "probably" to their sentences. I think they're starting to realise just how deep that hole their digging for them selves is getting.

    I was under the impression that the radiation was due to arrive late 2014… Now it's expected 2016-2017, what did it do, go shopping.

    —–

    Note to ENENews Admin…

    I tweet every post that you put up on here ( and will continue to do so ), and until recently I've been getting a fair amount of interest.

    But that interest is dwindling, I've asked some of my followers who where the most interested, & who regularly RT'd my tweets, why they seem to have stopped RTing the posts from here…

    They told me that they're being put off by the almost constant bickering that has been happening lately.

    So if I may suggest, that if you wish to continue getting the word out about Fukushima, then perhaps you may wish to get a grip on this site, while people are still willing to lend credence to it.

    On a side note :: Is it just me, but are most of the 'heavy hitters' around here keeping their distance, since the squabbling started.

    —–

    The above is just my view, read it, ignore it, it's up to you. But if I'm honest, this bickering is making my 'teeth itch', so I probably won't post again until the situation is resolved.

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      davidh7426: how does tweeting every post work? Are the entire post tweeted or just an excerpt? Every post?

      • davidh7426 davidh7426

        I have to edit the text at the beginning, otherwise it's to long, but I do what I can to keep the majority of the message.

        As long as you don't edit the link it'll lead back to that particular post.

        For some reason, Admin for reasons known only to his personal deity, and his psychiatrist uses links which are to all intents and purposes copies of the preceding text.

      • davidh7426 davidh7426

        …I don't tweet the comments, I'm not that insane… YET.

        Just Admins posts, what you get when you hit the tweet button up top.

  • weeman

    I do hope they are going to use double blind testing standards and different agencies or companies and laboratories to gather data, you can't regulate yourself especially if your mind is made up?.

  • bo bo

    Note to those who seek information.
    They will try to tell you 'DILUTION'
    but the reality is 'Bio- accumulation'.

    Radiation accumulates and builds up and intensifies as it travels up the food chain.

    For those of you thinking… 'well.. I'll stop eating sushi then…':
    The fish too radioactive for humans will be thrown right into the feeding tubs of livestock, and used as fertilizer for 'organic farming'

    • Ontological Ontological

      Why I eat every other day. A snack basically. Sure feels good to purge, fasting is amazingly healthy.

      • Ontological Ontological

        Even organic is unfortunately an issue too. They throw the sheet plastic covers to protect the food from toxic rain etc. in the ocean to kill whales. Overpopulation will make this issue even worse when time to duke it out for the last loaf of bread at wally world.

        • name999 name999

          Our food supply is now essentially untrustworthy.

          • jump-ball jump-ball

            Many, like myself, who have lost significant weight and regained health, believe that reduced food intake, leading to 'autolysis', enables the body to remove fat-stored toxins, and perhaps cancers. Now I periodically road-bicycle my 6 decade-plus age in one day, and my hip-replacement surgeon seems somewhat surprised, and I am hoping that 4=plus hours/day of exercise in the CA desert cities heat, along with zeolite, apple pectin, selenium, ALA, baking soda and 10 other supplements, will carry me through the oncoming west coast contamination, at the speed to which I have become accustomed.

      • razzz razzz

        Technically, you are not fasting until your stomach is completely empty.

        It is nice when your stomach no longer needs to send blood to the stomach. The body then turns to other duties or can supply more blood during physical activities. You are not a wood stove where you stoke it with fuel and then expect to run around like crazy carrying a full load, that thinking is detrimental to ones health.

        Lots of house cleaning needs to be done in a body as overeating prevents certain excretions (usually poisons) and the body stores them in and around fat cells and elsewhere until they can reenter the system to be filtered out. Sorta what a drug addict might go through when cravings begin.

        A common cold at times should be expected as excretions are obviously going on and needed. Eating like a human garbage disposal will lead to worse; extended flues, headaches, bunch of maladies. Those should pass quickly with rest.

        A body will not 'eat' itself and will at all times try to heal itself in spite of interference. Pneumonia is one of the leading causes of death, you literally drown in your own filth because the body is overcome. Worse, some bug might feed on the filth and thrive. Could be a aid in cleanup until overpopulated.

        Anyway, be careful and don't be to extreme in the beginning and there are always exceptions. Easy to digest and nutritious foods makes life easier if your taste buds don't rule your mind. They will readjust. A cleansing meal at the end of a fast…

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      bo: absoulutely correct. Processed and prepared food will not be wasted. It will be passwd back down the food chain to be used as feedstock, bait, fertilizer, etc. This will at first insure food that once passed safety standards no longer do and eventually, when more and more food no longer passes standards, they will raise those safety limits or abandon them entirely when it's evident it can't be escaped. You have to eat right? Cancer, birth defects, immunity deficiency illnesses, and so on, will be the new norm for the non-rich; the 99% of us. You're not dead, but you'll wish you were. Only the 1%, the super rich, will be able to afford safe food, grown and raised on specialized safe farms. Fear mongering? No. We have a historical point and the point where we are now. Draw a straight line through the dots. Does the line decline or incline. There's your future.

    • socref

      Yet no one here has come out and said "How much?". They are basically operating on a philosophical level rather than a scientific and risk-informed level. They believe if the "one drop rule is valid" then bioaccumulation is somehow running rampant. I am reminded the Ahi tuna caught off Sendai fetched $700k USD not too long after the tragedy.

    • RonM RonM

      Thanks Bo for bringing light to the distinction that you CANNOT dilute something by ADDING to it.

      The Deadly Highly Radioactive Levels of contaminants are Polluting our Ecosystem and RAISING the levels present nothing is being diluted except the concentrated emissions from the Meltdown Areas.

      And as has been mentioned many times by experts and laypersons these "diluted" radioactive elements re-concentrate through bio accumulation.

      It's definitely time for the human race to address the damage that is being done through industrial processes, and rampant mining, dumping, processing, especially nuclear technology and genetic modification which is destroying our natural life supporting planet.

      To re-emphasize, Nothing besides the Fukushima Power Plants is being "Diluted" the rest of the world starting mainly in the the Pacific Oceans and Northern Hemisphere air masses and resulting in Pollution and Bio-accumulation in the northern hemisphere.

      The long lived radioactivity of many of these elements assures us that over the course of time unless nuclear technologies are halted the levels of radioactivity in our environment will continue to rise, this more closely resembles "Concentration" which is the opposite of "Dilution"

      It is time to stop poisoning and concentrating toxins in our ecosystem and though the Long Life Span of Radioactive waste and pollution is horrific the disposal of heavy metals, and other toxic industrial waste must be brought to an END

  • Nick

    Every single atom that decays from Fukushima is bad news.

    Don't for a minute be lulled into complacency…..it's what the nuclear cabal is banking on.

    To all you West Coasters, be safe, love who you can, get out.

    I know I sound alarmist but my instinct tells me Fukushima is a bitch. Get out while you can

    • socref

      I disagree with your first sentence. There are decaying atoms from natural uranium in the sea. The natural uranium will spontaneously fission with some probability, and a fraction of those fission products born from spontaneous fission will be Cs-137 and Sr-90.

      As long as there is uranium somewhere there is spontaneous fission taking place, albeit small (100 n/sec-gm). And where there is spontaneous fission taking place, there are spontaneous fission products produced. And where there is spontaneous fission products produced there is Cs-137 and Sr-90, albeit small.

      So the notion that every atom of Cs-137 and Sr-90 in the world is produced by man is false.

      A lot of people dont know that.

      • Dr. Paolo Scampa – 9 Tons Of Radiotoxic Isotopes Came Out Of Fukushima, Enough To Kill The Whole Human Race By Internal Radiation; via @AGreenRoad
        http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/11/dr-paolo-scampa-9-tons-of-radiotoxic.html

      • Ontological Ontological

        What was here naturally is moot you your self quoted "500" years of life at 0 base. Again I tell you humans are IMMUNE to these futile lame offerings as to pixels of monochromatic photon emission.

      • charlie3

        There are decaying uranium atoms from nuclear bombs in the sea.
        The man-made uranium will decay into even more deadly radioactive isotopes such as Strontium 90 (SR90).
        As long as there is man-made nuclear fuel uranium anywhere, poisoning the environment will take place.
        The vast majority of all the SR90 in the world – the main source of childhood leukemia – is man-made by sociopathic, greedy, nuclear warmongers.

      • RonM RonM

        I guess because apple seeds contain trace amounts of naturally occurring cyanide that makes it OK for a industrial manufacturing plant or mining company to dump hundreds/thousands of barrels of cyanide waste into our rivers and oceans because heck it's going to be "DILUTED" or without the play on words it's really being concentrated in our environment but the levels are so small it will be hard to prove any of the illnesses or deaths are actually because of the deadly chemicals because hey the levels are so small and it's in apples.

        Isn't it a pleasure to meet pure EVIL yes socref you are an EVIL person, I am not religious but EVIL doesn't have to pertain to religion just as repent doesn't have to. Just own up to the fact that you made a mistake when you chose your major, and your career and either find a new profession or start using your knowledge to fight this ghastly specter of death and destruction called Atomic, or Nuclear Energy.

  • Nick

    I was not aware that cesium-137 was a naturally occurring isotope.

    My first sentence only mentioned Fukushima's atoms. I did not imply that some natural radiation happens. You did.

    • socref

      It only occurs when elements greater than 230 undergoes spontaneous fission.

      Some people argue that Cs-137 can only be found in reactors.

      • Wyakin Wyakin

        What you appear to be claiming is that Caesium-137 in the environment is not predominantly anthropogenic. Prove it.

        Reputable academic journals attribute the largest single source to fallout from atmospheric nuclear weapons tests in the 1950s and 1960s, which dispersed and deposited Caesium-137 world-wide.

        Nuclear reactor waste and accidental releases such as Chernobyl and Fukushima accidents are indisputably releasing the majority of today’s Caesium-137 to the environment.

        Attributing a majority or even a preponderance of CS-137 in the environment to spontaneous fission or coal burning is not a scientifically based assertion. Reference one study which demonstrates a meaningful portion of the world’s current inventory of CS-137 is derived from these sources.

        “The material flow of radioactive Caesium-137in the U.S.,”(EPA, Takeshi Okumura, 2003) pg. 13:

        “2.3. Caesium-137 cycle

        Caesium-137 does not exist in the natural environment and is always produced by human activity. Caesium-137 is produced by reactors as a fission byproduct. As a result of fission,
        a uranium atom splits into two atoms. Figure 4 shows the yield of atoms resulting from the fission of uranium. There are many possible fission fragments produced corresponding to different mass numbers, but the largest yields occur at mass numbers 95
        and 137. Therefore, cesium-137 is considered one of the major fission byproducts and remains in spent nuclear fuel.”

        cont

        • Wyakin Wyakin

          source:

          http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/docs/source-management/csfinallongtakeshi.pdf

          The above perhaps explains your expressed and biased predisposition to discredit the EPA through its radiation dose methods.

          There is and will be no greater source of CS-137 spread across the globe in the 21st century than exploding reactors, meltdowns (3 so far in Japan), and multiple spent fuel pool fires.

          In contrast to science and the recent relatively recent nuclear accidents in TMI, Chernobyl, and FU, coal and spontaneous fission as an explanation for the current worldwide CS-137 environmental inventory is unconvincly unbelievable.

          The FU nuclear disaster and its discharge of radiological by-products is killing the Pacific Ocean. When Tepco enevitably follows the advice of the world’s nuclear toothless and promoting IAEA watchdog to dump the millions of gallons of beta emitting, highly contaminated water into the Pacific, pro nuclear advocates will be, as the American saying goes, begin what we’ve already been hearing: whistling Dixie in the graveyard.

    • charlie3

      You're correct, it isn't a naturally occurring isotope on Earth at this point in history – it's a by-product of nuclear power plant meltdowns and nuclear bombs.

  • Nick

    So, let's set the record straight. You claim to know it all and the rest of us can just shove it?

    Okay, I am taking my gloves off now. Get ready.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Nick, go get em! 🙂

  • Nick

    Cesium-137 is an especially dangerous fission product because of its high yield during fission, moderate half-life, high-energy decay pathway, and chemical reactivity. Because of these properties, cesium-137 is a major contributor to the total radiation released during nuclear accidents.
    http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph241/wessells1/

    This is ONE of a slew of elements spewing from Fukushima. I do not buy the argument that it is a naturally occurring one.

    • socref

      Ok so you are saying uranium doesnt fission naturally (spontaneous fission)?

      Cesium and any other fission product follows a double humped curve.

      So whether a uranium atom in the air, land, or sea fissions, or a uranium atom in a reactor fissions – fission products occur.

      Its a matter of quantum mechanics and the physics of fission.

      • Jebus Jebus

        Naturally fissioning uranium happens in such miniscule quantities, that it is insignificant to this issue of Fukushima and man made radionuclide contamination of the planet.
        Man puts it in a reactor and that fissioning is accellerated to a level that exponentially exceeds the level of any naturally fissioning element. You are comparing a spec of pollen to a tree full of bad apples.

  • Nick

    I wait for the exalted one….. links ?

    • socref

      Spontaneous fission

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_fission

      Distribution of fission products during fission follows double humped curve

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_product_yield

      Does nuclear fission occur naturally?

      http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081229073856AAoTAvK

      • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

        Are you kidding me? The man asked for links, presumably for the purposes of scientific proof, and you give him 2 Wikipedia articles and a Yahoo conversation full of people referencing Wikipedia? These aren't exactly reputable sources. We don't know who writes or edits those articles. You could have at least sourced a journal article or two.

        In any case, you're probably right about naturally (theoretical) spontaneous fissioning of heavy elements, but how does that help the healthy, athletics student in Fukushima who got acute leukemia from cleaning a pool in Kohriyama? Let me guess, give him the right pills, in all of the right doses, analyze his blood readings, and if your calculations are correct, he should be able to run in next month's track meet, healthy as a bear? If not, he dies, and we can just toss him 'onto the pile' and declare the medical experiment a failure?

        I try to be a rational person, but in this case, f**k science up its conceited butthole. Because for all of modern science's power, that power seems to be purely theoretical, ethically impotent save for some historic exceptions such as Alexander Fleming, and subject to the whims of evil old buggers like Abe. What is the point of boasting te ability to create 10,000,000,000 jigawatts of electrical power, if (as we have seen in the past and present) you will never, EVER use that power responsibly, nor take responsibilty for your actions, the consequences of which do actually have conequences to…

        • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

          P.S. I'm assuming Nick is a manly man and not a womanly woman due to his/her screenname

        • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

          ManWithThePlan: socref aka Peter Angelo, is a DOE gov't plant. He's here to cause division and derision. Save your fingers. Just spread the word.

          • socref

            Im here in my spare time, trying to get information for my book on Fukushima. Im not an operative. So I'll probably leave soon. Part of the book proceeds will go to the ANS Fukushima Relief fund, if I ever get it published.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              From the time I've known you, you've been nothing but an agitator and a condescending prick to most everyone here. As of at least Nov 2011, you work at http://www.y12.doe.gov/ So you work for the gov't and specifically the DOE. The DOE doesn't exactly have a spotless reputation. This combined with the fact that you've done nothing here but be a major PITA and contributed little to nothing makes you a gov't psy. operative in my book. You said your book was going to detail the psyche of the people here. I think I hit it dead on when I said it was most likely a training manual to be used by the DOE thugs. You're leaving here soon because you've been ferreted out. BTW, brainiac, do you think you're the only one that works in the fed. gov't? You may just have seriously fucked up.

            • razzz razzz

              I have never seen anybody so conflicted. Are you confusing spontaneous fission with critical mass. Fission is decay, sustained fission takes place with critical mass. In between would be fissile. All the things only apply to man made elements. If natural radioisotopes act like man made radioisotopes it is considered inconsequential.

          • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

            I know… Of course you're right – I can spot a troll quite easily. I'll try to abstain from replying to him in the future. I kept telling myself that I wouldn't, but I just had to, just today LOL. My will wasn't strong enough and I couldn't help myself. Obiously I regret replying to that person now, as I tend to be very mindful of this site's image.

          • KiloCharley KiloCharley

            SykeWar, Whom should we hang then, Mr. Blackwell only a couple of days ago? Now he is Mr. Angelo? What happened? Are you willing to hang everyone until you get the right guy? The witch hunt continues…. Please consider your accusations seriously.

  • Nick

    Hmmm.

    Seems like the cat has got someone's tongue.

    You do not want to mess with mother nature, nor Nick.

    Yeah, I'm not perfect but I know physics, biology, ecology, cosmology, etc.

    It's my calling to speak truth to power.

  • Nick

    Take care all, I have to catch a bus.

    And….please don't think I really have animosity for anyone. I don't.

    Wage Peace.

  • Socrates

    The epidemiologists have attributed thousands of cases of hypothyroidism, microcephaly, stillbirths, low birthweight, and learning disabilities to Fukushima. That's the Iodine 131 plume.

    Hot particle mortality and morbidity will kill many in the future. Strontium-90 will flow across the Pacific Ocean for 150 years and find its way into breastfeeding babies, commercial milk and into bones and teeth. Cesium-137 will contaminate wild mushrooms and kelp for many decades, possibly centuries. Pacific Ocean seafood cannot be said to be "safe" ever again.

    Buckyballs will come in the ocean mists. When there are rain-outs you will be exposed.

    My guess is that no more than a million Americans and will die from Fukushima. Food stuffs will be contaminated for many centuries to come. Many mutated but recessive genetic defects will show up for twenty generations.

    But the pro-nukes still have careers and golden parachutes. The Japanese have descent from heaven. They got away with murder. They fooled many people – enough to continue their game.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    I am still trying to figure out why we have such a massive high pressure weather system directly over this massive ocean Fukushima radiation plume sitting directly off the west coast?

    Seems like the jet stream is pushing north and the drought being caused by this high pressure system might destroy the state's entire agriculture business along with others.

    Could the energy signature from the spewing radiation plume actually be changing our weather patterns/systems?

    • Socrates

      Obe,

      I would think that the energy being released would have electro-valent energy. Tesla could tell us.

      Well, we need to go on with life. In time, the grim death and disease toll will mount.

      Low dose is the perfect crime. Polonium 110 in your sushi…. This will be slower.

    • AirSepTech AirSepTech

      I don't see why not.
      Anything that obscures, reflects, or changes temperatures in the atmosphere has an effect.
      To what degree, ???????

      The problem is we are compounding the effects from multiple sources.
      Makes it tough to track, blame, understand.

      Add to that all the blowhards with the secret agendas.

      I have worked side by side with the nuke-pukes for 20 years.
      They are intelligent, driven, opinionated folks. They do their homework, and enjoy a good round of debate.

      They are also risk takers, it's in there DNA, part of the game.

    • name999 name999

      The weather is definitely changed in the Pacific NW.

      Will the blossoms come back in the Spring?

  • Socrates

    Artica,

    Depending on the quantum of proof… I said "die." You said "affected."

    Scientists are very conservative. They want to measure the exact dose and then do the epidemiology. If you smoke three packs per day for thirty years, you may look like Dick Cheney but technically not be dead (yet).

    Personally, I would attribute many ill – effects in marine and terrestrial life to Fukushima. As time goes by, we will witness increased mortality and morbidity but connecting it to Fukushima will be difficult. There will be some pathological evidence or even autopsy evidence, but much is on the cellular level and is general in nature.

    If I say, "Bo!" and that causes you to die of a heart attack, causation is hard to prove. Full body scans may establish high levels in some cases. But most damage cannot be forensically established. Epidemiology shows correlation but not causation in the individual case.

    In my opinion, we will see millions of premature deaths and have already seen the effects of neonatal hypothyroidism and the like from the Iodine-131 plume. The rest is just nuclear roadkill that the industy gets away with.

    If there are further massive releases of Strontium-90 or the building gs collapse, then millions will certainly die, even more, as you know.

    • guevara3712

      in my understanding the strontium release has only just begun and will be massive for quite some time. comments?

    • name999 name999

      I think folks won't be able to ignore the changes and the legal stuff will explode or evaporate along with the food and water.
      It will be important to keep a cool head and have survival strategies.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Tepco measured 5,100,000 Bq/m3 of Strontium-90 from groundwater in August 2013 / Concealed for 5 months
    Jan 15 2014

    http://fukushima-diary.com/2014/01/tepco-measured-5100000-bqm3-of-strontium-90-from-groundwater-in-august-2013-concealed-for-5-months/

    • guevara3712

      yeah i saw that and i also saw a model here on ene of a reactor melting near a river. by that model the strontium release from fuku started a little early (no surprise with 3 reactors melted plus it's closer to the water than the model)i can't remember the figure for the time a fairly massive strontium leak would continue, but it was years.

      • Socrates

        Right. The 1992.German study indicates Strontium-90 releases after 1,000 days, with a peak in a dozen or more years, and continuing for 150 years.

        The ratios of Stontium-90 to Cesium-134/137 has been relatively high already. Presently, it is very high in absolute terms. Strontium releases are dependent on temperatures.

        If the 1992 German study is correct, and I have every reason to think it is because it outlined the various counter – measures, such as the ice wall, etc., there will be ocean surface transmission of chalky oxides and other forms. It will end up in milk. It will end up in teeth pulp and bone marrow, as well as in the bony structures. Fish bones and crustaceans will have Strontium-90. Plankton and algae will absorb it.

        The Fukushima nightmare will never end in our lifetimes. It just adds to above-ground testing, Chernobyl and other sources that are cumulative.

    • SadieDog

      Strontium and radioactive silver found in fuku fish.
      http://www.fukuleaks.org/web/?p=11902

  • artika rama

    Socrates ow I thought you meant "NO MORE THAN " a million will die . I agree that millionS will die plural not just one million .
    Some isotopes with halflifes of thousands or millions of years will keep killing MUCH more than a million I think .
    Even from Chernobyl more than a million people are already affected TILL NOW ,, in the first 25 years of a catastrophe . Only 25 years and the number is over a million , and it's just one nuke plant and it is dealt with sort of . In Fukushima there are 3 melt downs , there is MOX fuel in coriums which is much more toxic then regular fuel and there is no solution IMO for the continuous contamination / leakage .
    I think the numbers will be MUCH higher than a million , unfortunately .
    Lol dick Cheney joke is a good one 🙂

    • socref

      Many people think millions will die, when there isnt any proof but statistics

      http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167.5072&rep=rep1&type=pdf

      • artika rama

        Scoref In real life (meaning not in the one you are living in ) You cannot allways find proof for everything . Sometimes you just try to guess what's going to happen depending on your knowledge /experience and some common sense.. weird huh ?:))

        • socref

          If you cant find proof, then why make something up and speculate?

          I believe in the scientific method, the cause and effect and repeatability of an experiment.

          If I put a pot of water at a certain temperature on the stove it should boil after a fixed time. If I repeat the experiment with the exact initial conditions it should repeat. However it wont be the exact time all the time. There will be a mean and variance and higher moments the more I repeat the experiment.

          However never never conjecture just because the evidence isnt there that it must be something its not. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

          • artika rama

            Scoref not every experiment is as easy as boiling water . Sometimes you cannot do the actual experiment . That's when you have to make a guess.
            Unless we can poison millions of people with radioactive isotopes and see who will survive and who will die , everyone is guessing , including you . Right ?
            Only if life was so simple as you and your computer and your formulas would tell you .

          • Daisy207

            Then show us the tables of actual analyses (links to them please), name the labs that did the testing, names of persons or agencies collecting the samples, list the metals and isotopes analyzed, get data from pre-fukushima for comparisons and every statement you make should include the words "these data show" – now that would be objective and impartial.

          • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

            May I remind you that it is your precious scientific method that got us into the mess in the first place – overly confident scientists without an ounce of ethics, or ethical scientists being manipulated by corrupt figures of authority. After all, ethics are never mentioned in textbooks. Ethics don't make up an atom. Ethics are an abstraction to science, and, as such have absolutely no value.

            The simple fact of the matter is that, whether you're a scientist, a politician, or a businessman, simple ethics, humanity, and justice have always been and will continue to be the defining traits of a decent human being. Not the ability to predict how long a pot of water will take to boil.

    • Socrates

      When he goes, they will keep his brain in a jar with nutriments circulating to keep the evil alive.

      I think millions will die from Fukushima over the years. Maybe that many or more in Japan alone, unfortunately.

      We are down wind and current. Causes are hard to prove but we have been conditioned about a dirty nuke – well here it is. You cannot blame Saddam and invade Iraq so the powers that be down play it. All they worry about is Iran or Syria. Bla, bla…24/7 on mainstream television because of oil.

      Everything is about who controls energy. Nuclear energy is their energy.

      • socref

        I and many others disagree. Your position is more in line with Yablokov, an that study has not been accepted unless you are talking about Gundersen, Caldicott, and Busby.

        • Socrates

          You do not agree that they will keep Dick Cheney's brain in jar to keep the evil alive? Why not?

          Seriously, if you and I live many years, and I hope we do, we will see the numbers…

          In fact, I hope that you are correct. Meanwhile, much uncertainty has been created by using nuclear energy. Einstein and others warned about this. Can't you guys use wind and solar?

          People could conserve energy and voluntarily reduce their numbers. Increasing human populations mean more business for oil and nuclear, and that, along with other factors is the problem. Why be out on a limb sawing off the branch you are sitting on?

        • Back to the argument; if it is not accepted by the 'peers', then it is worthless, right? In other words, all work done by independent non nuclear industry funded scientists is worthless. WRONG.

          The peer reviewed journals are all in lock goosestep with the pro nuclear industry folks, because that is where their bread is buttered, That is not really impartial, is it?

          And if those meetings held by those same pro nuke scientists lock out and exclude all those who dissent from the all radiation is good via hormesis theory, that is not really scientific either.

          And with the IAEA (a nuclear marketing organization) controlling what the WHO gets to say, that is not really scientific either, is it?

          Hmm, starting to look a wee bit like a 1% club, excluding the 99%.

          If you don't agree with us and our conclusions, we won't let you in, give you funding, or publish any studies you do.

    • name999 name999

      A theory about who the people are who are causing this atrocity is, of course that it is people who want exactly that.
      They want to eliminate huge populations.
      Deliberately.

      They somehow believe they are not also vulnerable.

  • radioapatheticman

    It would be more useful if top-level predators were tested instead of kelp. Most humans eat higher up the food chain, and the radionuclides are likely going to bioconcentrate. I wouldn't be surprised if kelp radioactivity is relatively low compared to the concentrations found in top-level predators.

    The kelp data could still be useful. It could be used in models to predict how radioactive a predatory fish could become. However, it would be better to directly measure apex predators. Public pressure on the FDA is needed to force them to test top-level predators.

    • Socrates

      Indeed! There must be pressure to test milk for any a d all levels of Strontium-90 as well as Iodine-131. Full body scans can test from
      For Cesium 137. Some physicians have tried urinalysis. Fingernail clippings can be sent to the lab. Discarded baby teeth are one of the best ways. These studies cost money. I have Toxicologists and epidemiologists who believe it should be done. It was done in the 50s. JFK was convinced as to above-ground d testing. He still believed in the peaceful atom.

      I am not a specialist nor a scientist. But these are a few ideas.

      • Great ideas, all of them. Whole body scans were done on kids after Chernobyl.. 300,000 of them.

        They tracked the radiation build up and did some chelation to get the levels back down, and tracked that too.

        It would be very interesting to do some of that whole body count radiation testing here, in high risk populations such as kids.

        Sadly, there may not even be a whole body radiation counter on the entire west coast.

        • Socrates

          The tooth fairy studies need to be repeated. Indications from Canadian studies by private testing of milk, as reported by EnviroReporter, indicate that levels of Strontium-90 were rising back to levels recorded in above-ground testing.

          With funding, tooth fairy studies can be repeated. In today's world, too many people are beaten down by corporate propaganda, reinforced by government approval.

          Joseph Mangano and Jeanette Sherman have thirty peer – reviewed studies. If there were funds for the tooth study, we would at least know Strontium-90 levels in breastfeeding milk.

          Complacency has taken over Americans at the wrong time in history.

          • name999 name999

            How true. It is the classic black listing, ostracizing, shunning. Cointelpro, Project Minaret as described in Wikipedia.

            Not only an unfair playing field, but a dangerous one.

            Americans have been lazy in fighting for democratic rights and have now lost many. We are un uninformed nation overall. No surprise with all the lying, disinformation, yellow journalism, and pure deciet in the media and in educational
            centers. Many of us have called foul on this for many years yet it goes on to do this.

      • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

        A couple of days ago, someone on here mentioned that they test radiation levels in babies' bones and teeth or something along those lines… I'm not sure if this is a regular thing or something done on an irregular basis after TMI incident. If they can run tests like these, they definitely should. In fact, if this is at all physically possible, I say don't wait until they start testing – go to an independent medical professional today and have them test your kid's marrow/teeth.

  • rogerthat

    Thank you Obewan, everyone needs to look at these images. Holy cow. No doubt there is a perfectly believable explanation for these anomalies that has nothing to do with radiation. By the way, does anyone remember the nurse who worked in a hospital near Fukushima and who came home one day about six months after the meltdowns to tell her husband that of seven babies born that day, only two were healthy (i seem to recall two downs syndromes, two stillborn, and so on). So they moved forthwith to another part of Japan. Anecdotal stuff, of course, but that's all we have while governments tell you all you have to do is smile and all will be fine. Like the south african minister of health some years ago who told people to eat cabbage and garlic (or maybe it was onions) to ward off aids. Anyhow, thanks for the memories.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    rogerthat, you are welcomed. 🙂

    I love watching the banter as the posted pictures above tell the entire story regarding the dangers of Nuclear "Manmade" Radiation Contamination.

    I hear the comments and some say millions are going to die, and yes, they will die, we all will die, but it's really about how they/we die that is the real question at hand.

    Mankind has made a huge mistake and socref is way off on so many things that it's scary that these types of people represent our current received promoted education.

    None of the pollution crap spewing from any Nuclear Power Plant and/or from any Nuclear Operation is natural and/or normal to this world we call Earth.

    It's all a manmade created poison and it is all labeled specifically as such! 🙁

    I feel sorry for such people and they are found all around us in our daily lives.. 🙁

  • rogerthat

    When your job depends on not finding proof, then proof will indeed be hard to find. If no-one tests for radiation, then radiation can't be blamed. QED. Even Buesseler has raised this. And if the government turns off its radnet whenever readings get too high, what's the point of wasting money on a radnet?

  • rogerthat

    ''they were surveying seafood from day 1.'' that's a joke. the closest they got to surveying seafood was reading the menu at a restaurant.

  • rogerthat

    I notice he believes in the scientific method. Well, that's a relief. It means that he believes things should be tested and measured. Things like radiation, how much there is in any given life form, and what it does while its there. So does this mean he will be joining everyone else here, and asking the government to measure, test, study, and report the results to the people?

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      Roger the scientific method has already been done, and yes, it's visually seen in the above pictures and its also plastered all over the internet in varied medical journals, peer reviewed papers and research papers. It all states clearly that Manmade Radiation Contamination in any form is a class 1 Mutagenic compound.

      Ergo: Why the entire Fukushima argument is a moot point! This is Nuclear Technology is real bad and it will get much worse and that is what/how this type of manmade created poison does/behaves. 🙁

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    I ran into good story to day http://www.Veteranstoday.com datedd 1-12-2014. Look up "ProNukers Spread Death & Pesstilence-Always. From a Veteraans site they did their home work. I didi not get to read it all due a docs app, but will try to fishish later. Maybe someone here may jump on to it & the many links they provide have some good facts! TY all.Peace

    In my mind the only ones who escaped a hot particle are in the grave yards already!

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    I ran into good story to day http://www.Veteranstoday.com datedd 1-12-2014. Look up "ProNukers Spread Death & Pesstilence-Always. From a Veteraans site they did their home work. I didi not get to read it all due a docs app, but will try to fishish later. Maybe someone here may jump on to it & the many links they provide have some good facts! TY all.Peace

    In my mind the only ones who escaped a hot particle are in the grave yards already! Just my thoughts!

  • Wyakin Wyakin

    Obe-its all about connecting the dots. Detractors will do everything possible to stop this from happening as we are now seeing by actions across the globe perpetrated by misguided governments and factually biased detractors on numerous websites. Keep up the good work. Signing off for tonight, but wish you and your family good health in the new year.

    Peace.

  • rogerthat

    Yup, Obewan, I just having a dig at the one with scientific method in his madness ha ha. Best wishes, great job you and the cohorts doing here.

  • Sol Man

    The headline is a warped take on "Power to the People."

  • Nuclear Industry Bite on Indiana’s Bait?

    Quote: "Current Indiana law provides that only projects involving the life cycle management of such facilities qualify for the incentives."

    This article below is worth a read and a comment from a few in here:
    http://www.powermag.com/will-the-nuclear-industry-bite-on-indianas-bait/