Chernobyl Expert: Fukushima’s final toll will be worse — Multiple facilities, longer duration, population far more dense (RADIO)

Published: March 13th, 2012 at 3:06 pm ET
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Title: Karl Grossman, Fallout from Fukushima
Source: The Majority Report with Sam Seder
Date: March 13, 2012

Professor and investigative journalist Karl Grossman on lessons learned (or not) from Fukushima disaster and state of Nuclear Power in world today [...]

At 12:45 in

Dr. [Alexey] Yablokov himself believes because of the multiplicity of nuclear facilities, and the fact that the population is far more dense than the area around Chernobyl, and the fact it went on for so long — the discharges, the releases — Dr Yablokov believes it will be worse than Chernobyl in terms of the final toll.

Yablokov is a member of the Russian academy of sciences, and adviser to President Gorbachev at the time of Chernobyl -Guardian

Listen to the report here

Published: March 13th, 2012 at 3:06 pm ET
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83 comments to Chernobyl Expert: Fukushima’s final toll will be worse — Multiple facilities, longer duration, population far more dense (RADIO)

  • TheWorldIsBlind

    We knew this a long time ago. Im just glad its finally starting to come out by experts. They tried telling us it was 1/10th of Chernobyl. More like 10 times. The Island of Japan is done. And the whole Northern Hemisphere has been coated in contamination. Im just an average joe and I know this. Your brainwashing was ineffective on me. Goodbye Japan. Hardly knew ye.


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  • TheWorldIsBlind

    PS – Might as well just tell the whole truth now. At least 2 of the 4 coriums have gone China Syndrome a long time ago. SFP 4 will collapse in the near future from the next 7.0+ earthquake tohit Fuku coast. California and Hawaii will be uninhabitable when this happens. The pacific ocean will be radioactively hot forever, many populations of sea creatures will become extinct. Disease and infection will ravage Japan and people all across the Northern Hemipshere. Tell me Im wrong I dare you. Anyone.


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    • I believe you are right
      China syndrome seems inappropriate these days. Japan Syndrome?


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    • FukuYou FukuYou

      I'm afraid I'm not the one to tell you that you are wrong.


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    • hbjon hbjon

      I think your wrong, and I'll tell ya why. We're gonna grow our food indoors away from the bad stuff. We're gonna filter our water to assure we are not drinking the bad stuff. We're gonna bury the whole mess under 100 feet of cement and sand. We're gonna trap the releases at the point of emission. We're gonna ride this one out. Sure many of us will die a horrific death and our offspring will be unrecognizable. But, hey, we learned the hard way. Education can be painful.


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      • TheWorldIsBlind

        I like your optomistic point of view. However only a certain few have the means to carry out such an elaborate plan and there will be no governmental aide. Furthermore, TEPCO doesnt have the workforce or tech to seal up Fuku as of today. The most they accomplished is putting a polyester cover over one reactor. Its too late. Just too little too late…


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      • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

        @hbjon: I agree with your take on this. There are plans (behind the scenes) being tendered for consideration, which are intended to reduce the uncontrolled impact of this catastrophe. As any who frequent this site (on a daily basis) can attest-to, there's very little being presented in the MSM about this event. This stark reality reveals that they'll not add to the public's negative reactions by disclosing their plans for remediation. These plans will likely be revealed through innocuous press releases and be presented in a form that draws little if-any correlation to Fukushima. That's how the game is played.

        Just keep in mind, none of my speculation (as it is for most of us) should be seen as grounds for letting-up the pressure on the nuclear power industry. Most of us are only paying attention to what happened in Chernobyl, because of Fukushima. Does this mean Chernobyl was less deadly? No, it wasn't/isn't! It's only due to its relative isolation from large population centers that we've not seen what we'll be seeing in Japan, over the next five-to-ten years (if not sooner).

        So, whether they're ready to accept it or not, the days of nuclear power are over. We've now entered upon the early 'days' of how we'll be repairing a trashed environment. The sooner the better…


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        • What-About-The-Kids

          Interesting take on this post-Fuku world, Aftershock. I have similar suspicions, knowing now somewhat how things work in the political realm, that remediation efforts will be ramping up.

          Some observations post-Fuku:

          An increased amount of aerial "chemtrail" spraying worldwide, which though no formal announcement about it has been made, some speculate is for purposes of radiation remediation.

          The Soviet scientists did similar cloud seeding after Chernobyl to help mitigate the spread of fallout. They claimed it worked and that was the reason so much of the fallout rained down onto Belarus. However, the recent USGS study of fallout from Fuku on the West Coast claimed that despite their initial belief that radioisotopes would "adsorb" to these sprayed aerosol particles, they concluded that they actually didn't…Makes you wonder whose calling the shots for the chemtrail spraying and what studies, if any, they are basing them on, no?


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          • What-About-The-Kids

            Other observations about some "subtle messaging" we may be receiving in efforts to mitigate the harmful effects of exposure to radiation contamination (just postulating, no proof here…):

            Yesterday's Science/Health news reported on yet another study showing the definite harmful effects of eating red meat, saying it causes cancer and heart disease and cuts ones' life short AND an article about the myths the many healthful benefits of milk being just that, myth.

            Given the fact that isotopes like cesium bio accumulate in cow's milk would mean it is also bioaccumulating in cows and cattle…our red meat. So…despite the scientists reporting meat's harmful health effects are due to cholesterol and fat build up in our bodies, perhaps these things are happening because it is our bodies response to the radiation possibly present in the meat? Anyone else ever considered this?

            I saw one doctor in a video describe that salt had a corrosive effect on our arteries, so the cholesterol build up was actually our bodies' response to the scraping of our arteries from the salt! So we lay down a layer of cholesterol to protect the artery walls.

            Similarly, our liver may produce excess cholesterol as a result of being bombarded by radiation (and other toxins) or as a way to protect our arteries themselves from the radiation. (Cancer is only one deadly byproduct of radiation exposure, as strokes and heart disease are also common. Sadly, I have discovered the truth of this in my own family and friends this past year. Too many occurrences to be coincidental, in my book!)

            So my point is that if the media is indeed so "controlled" as many have postulated here, they may have been "given" such articles as subtle ways to warn the public about what foods to avoid post-Fuku. Or perhaps not…just some personal observations. ;-) Either way, it would be wise to heed their advise and to cut back, if not completely eliminate these from one's diet, no?


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            • datura17

              ok,yes salt can do some bad things. however there is another something that is generally missing in most peoples diets. here is a video from the man that was instrumental in getting the above ground nuclear testing banned, pay attention and listen to the message he gives.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYHHKJBRUxw
              and who would the people be that wouldnt want this well known. hmmmmm.


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          • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

            @What-About-The-Kids: your suspicions are worthy of consideration. You are correct on the issue of bio-accumulation of radiological toxins. Where and when possible, I consume only organic foods and have been phasing out foods that concentrate these toxins. But intuition tells me that they'll be limits to my precautions. I'm particularly miffed that I can't consume seafood anymore; always considered it an 'evolutionary' right of humans.

            I'll now be watching for the media slants that you've caught on too! Lends new meaning to "People are Soylent Green!"


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Read "Owning the Weather in 2025" and read about weather modification on the DoD website. Out there in plain view for anyone who cares to research it.

            Of course the real agenda isn't disclosed.


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        • hbjon hbjon

          I am optimistic. More pessimistic about the fuel condition at Daiichi, but optimistic about society surviving after the disaster. There was a reason they pumped seawater into the npp's. All the water mains were busted and no fresh water could be had. It took a long time to get a reliable water source online and even then it would flow right through the pools and out the bottom. By then the fuel in the rpv was liquid and draining out through the damaged containment. Some people think it was gone after a couple hours. Why wouldn't it be? They are designed not to explode. I guess unlimited amounts of money put into R&D was able to get that part right.


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        • Not sure there are any plans for remediation


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        • hbjon hbjon

          That's all fine and dandy aftershock, but I don't really have a horse in that race. I got here from Arnies videos and after I got kicked off PF for wild speculation. I actually suggested that I thought the thing was gonna go up in a fusion type explosion and take out the whole island. What a relief that didn't happen.


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    • kintaman kintaman

      Just FYI, there have only been 3 core meltdowns at Fukushima Daiichi. Not 4.


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    • 3C

      Let's begin calling it the GE Syndrome.
      1) China is in the wrong direction and
      2) It's going (coming) home to it's creator.


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    • jec jec

      Hope everyone remembers the Pacific Ocean is ATTACHED to the Atlantic Ocean. So radiation in the Pacific waters will eventually migrate to the Atlantic. Time may help as some radioisotopes degrade.

      And the sea life–especially those species that travel long distances will also migrate to the Atlantic. This is a difficult and long extinction process for many.


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  • bleep_hits_blades

    @World is Blind – I think you're right. I live in Hawaii. From the get-go, I knew I should move, if possible, but I just didn't have the heart for it. I am in my late 60s and pretty much a low-energy depressive anyway, and this Fuk. disaster really did something to me, it 'broke' me, so to speak.

    It is very creepy because most people I talk to don't have a clue or they way underestimate the severity of the crisis. I have a son who is a Ph.D. medical researcher. In his view, I have long been a 'paranoid conspiracy theorist'/chicken little alarmist. My younger son is way more saavy… but he's still living in the Seattle area… just up and moving is hard to do.

    I have been totally changed by this event, and to most people, well, there is just something wrong with ME ,it is my 'personal pathology,' that I am so affected by it…


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    • kintaman kintaman

      If you are in your late 60's already and will not have anymore kids you 'may' not need to worry as much.


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    • TheWorldIsBlind

      Damn thats deep. In my experiences as well people deeply underestimate the severity of this disaster as well. They think that since its so far away that it cant affect us. Wrong. Since TEPCO used saltwater to cool the reactors this formed a specific type of chemical that acted as a carrying vessel and had the ability to cover vast distances via the Jet stream. In addition to this the pollution caused by Fuku has contributed heavily to climate change. I live in CT and today it topped 85 degrees. I have never seen this. We got a total of 3 snowstorms. Again never seen this. Since Fuku, the world has changed. You either see it or you dont. Most people ignore to see it. You're not crazy so don't take other's ignorance personally. Radiation takes time to affect the living its only immediate when the doses are severly high, like on site at Fuku. But we've all been irradiated with small doses and time will show. It's not over, not even close.


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      • Anthony Anthony

        OMG yesterday here on Van Island we had the WICKEDEST wind storm almost tornado level harsh wind and sheet rain.

        It went on for hours and hours and hours.

        I wondered where I was because I hadn't seen a storm quite like this before. The aftermath was identical to tornadic aftermath disaster zone looking crime scene.

        Something has elementally changed in the balance.

        If storms were like yesterday's all-the-time….we're dead meat!


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        • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

          We had better all get used to this kind of thing..

          Personally, I think we better start building bomb shelter kinds of buildings, rather than these flimsy wooden things that blow away with these new normal 140 mile per hour storms.

          Domes are also much more resistant to storm damage than square buildings are, by a factor of maybe ten or more?


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        • hbjon hbjon

          Why would noble gases and nuclear bi-products from Fuku combine with the normal gases in the atmosphere and make storms more severe? Or increase the flux of air around a low pressure system? I am sure much smarter people have ran the models on a computer program. But it is interesting to ponder. one would need to know the composition of the air and other properties of the storm. Ah heck, I'll just come right out and say it. It's the fire breathing Fuku Monster.


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          • TheWorldIsBlind

            What I think is mainly the heat generated during the initial stages altered the climate. Furthermore the radiation released entered the jet stream and the added particulate in the air has affected the water molecules suspended in the atmosphere altering the composition of clouds. The added particulate allows more water molecules to attach to the particulates thus making clouds larger and storms more violent. And the clashes temperatures from molten fuel and cool air caused a siginificant amount of low pressure systems to form and go west to east over USA


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Krypton 85. Maybe not much of that around now, though. Someone published a link to studies on the relationship between Krypton 85 and storm activity. It might have been Bobby1. Just posted here in the past 10 days or so.


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        • jec jec

          @anthony Right on. The power in storms this year –has increased. Where we think we might be getting 25 knots in a front-we see 50-70 knots and higher in gusts. Models are having difficulty keeping up (grib files–just add a potential of 50% not 25% higher projects of wind fields).


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      • jec jec

        And look at the tips of the plants as they start growing this spring. Already in S. Virginia the tops of parsley plants shows many many branchings, as do the fig trees and the apple trees. The blooms are trememdous at the tips of the fruit trees..and on the figs..huge clusters of fruit showing up ..on the tips of the branches. In the apples..it is not easily seen..but the fig plants will watch to see what happens. Normally, figs grow along the stems — the clumps at the tip of the branches will weight down and make it more difficult for the plant to grow upright towards the sun. (we have a bit of shade here).

        Add to that the number of dogs having "false" pregnancies this spring. While no statistics yet, I have had THREE failed litters, a nearby friend has had two litter "reabsorbed"–and others in other areas N. America are reporting the same. It would be of interest to get the data logged–and used. If someone on this blog is doing that kind of research, let us know!


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    • What-About-The-Kids

      Bleep, I am so sorry to hear about how deeply you've been affected by Fukushima. But it is heartening to hear at least one of your sons is aware of the issues surrounding 3/11. If you haven't already, please make him aware of my post on the 3/11 commemoration events thread about the event this Saturday, March 17 in Seattle:

      I am pleased to announce that the esteemed founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility and Beyond Nuclear, Dr. Helen Caldicott, will speak alongside Arne Gundersen and Robert Alvarez at the United Methodist church in the University District of Seattle on March 17, about Lessons Learned from Fukushima and its implications in the Pacific Northwest: http://www.psr.org/news-events/events/lessons-from-fukushima-for-the-northwest.html


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  • bleep_hits_blades

    re hbjon's elaborate plan

    World is Blind is right. Most simply haven't the means to do that.

    But the key/core elites DO have the means, of course.


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  • bleep_hits_blades

    @ kintaman, thanks for the reply. I know this has been hard for you too – moving your family. Very smart to have made that difficult decision.

    Older people are in a high risk group, of course, like the younger ones. I think I have been affected – have had a cough since the disaster.

    Basically I'm devastated, that this has happened; I feel sad, in mourning, for the whole world, for the children and younger generations most of all. Some of the trusting little faces in some of the videos of the Japanese kids – I can't forget them.

    I've been studying the NWO thrust for global power/restructuring for a long time, and the elites' wanton trashing of the environment, their reckless, ruthless ways, and the dumbing-down of the masses, and poisoning of the food supply, the 'funny/phoney money'/FRNs and control of information – the whole thing. In my small way I tried to 'make a difference,' to alert people.

    I feel sad for my 'lost cause.' For what this world could have been…

    My 'consolation' and place of refuge has been enenews and the people here. Just having this group here who know and understand the significance of what has happened/is happening. (And of course having people interested in the 'information' – with my last breath I will probably be posting some information to someone, somewhere… never say die.)


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    • StillJill StillJill

      Me too Bleep,…: " – with my last breath I will probably be posting some information to someone, somewhere… never say die.)"

      Like you, I'll be 'preachin' to the undertaker! :-)

      (I'm almost wondering if they'll come up with a support group for 'sons from US'!) I PRAY you're laughing Blades! :-)


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    • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

      There is no LOSING..

      You are a winner, and so is anyone else who follows their heart.

      The only losers are those who do NOT follow their heart, and those who deny the truth.

      Remember it is not about physical things, place or time.. We are Spiritual Beings temporarily in a physical body.

      But what we do in this temporary physical shell does have consequences…

      But it is not who we ARE.

      Everyone can die tommorrow and it does not really matter on that spiritual level.. We continue on. Just one more experiment that turned out in an interesting way.

      Remember, many civilizations have falled and collapsed. They were not the first, and we are not the last.

      Look at this verrrrrrrryyyyyyy long term, like multiple lifetimes..

      It helps to take the sting out of what seems to be happening right now. But a lesson needs to be learned.

      Suffering is the most often used method, because free will choice is abused and misused.


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    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Hang in there, Bleep. Try to enjoy some little people. Their joy is infectious. Smell some of the beautiful flowers there (and don't think about the pollen)! Whatever you do, try not to isolate yourself. I understand how you feel. Sometimes I have to go out into creation and look around. It helps to remember some things are still right with the world, despite the mess that has been made of much of it.


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    • kintaman kintaman

      Thanks for your kind words Bleep. My family and I have been watching the various documentaries and videos on Fukushima marking the 1 year anniversary. There has been a lot of emotion the last few days with many tears of sorrow, anger and frustration. But really these feelings have been continuous for the last year for me while I also try to support my family and try to map out a new life plan for us.

      I am thankful I am not an alcoholic or other as it would have been a downward spiral with this stress. But while I feel pain and anger I realize it is nothing compared to what those still in Japan and especially those nearer to the affected areas are feeling. I bow my head to those suffering and wish there was something I could do. It is even more frustrating when those around me (Japanese community here even) do not realize or want to realize the impact of what has/is happening. They think it is over and there is no major impact.


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  • jayjay jayjay

    Sorry to break in on conversation, we live Wales in the UK and I heard on BBC Radio 4 today how the chemical DDT became banned. Penguins in the Antarctic were found to have DDT in their bodies! DDT was a very useful insecticide used in agriculture and horticulture.
    So the thought came to me what could be tested in the Arctic to find e.g Caesium e.t.c. What about testing Polar Bears as there are no Penguins in the Artic. Probably a daft idea but there you go.


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  • many moons

    I'm thinking about testing for radiation in my local grocery store.

    It never ceases to confuse me how there can be a comparison made between what happened at chernobyl and what is still going on at Fukushima…where are the similarities for someone to say…it's a little worse, it's much worse, it's 10 chernobyls?
    What is happening in Fuku is beyond human understanding..this is all new and getting newer with each chemical/radioactive/fissioning product interacting with another…it's like a lab gone wild…the mad scientist has left the room.


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    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

      @many moons: it's likely your efforts at testing foodstuffs will yield marginal results. The testing of food for radiological toxins requires a controlled process/setup. Basically, they take suspect food and grind it up into a slurry. That's then reduced in volume through distillation and placed in a calibrated chamber. Time controlled readings of radioactive emission levels are performed from there. It's important that a calibrated reference be used, otherwise you won't know if the samples are exhibiting excursions from 'accepted' levels. You can do this yourself but it still requires calibrated references and (potentially) hazardous waste disposal protocols…


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      • I believe it's a good idea. Many are doing so right now. If you found just one contaminated 'peach', let's say, and you avoided eating it, then the results would be worth it.

        Test, test and test again. Never stop testing. It will be a way of life for those who survive this. The EPA sure is not going to do it. We know that.

        Independent food testers leave some info here:
        Article by Michael Collins
        http://www.enviroreporter.com/2011/07/eat-me/


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        • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

          @ChasAha: again, it's not testing that's in question, but how the testing is being done. Waving a detector over a head of lettuce is, at best, likely to cause misleading readings. This issue merits greater development out here…


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          There was some discussion of this months ago. Someone (Spectrometising?) said you'd have to test at least 1 kilo of food to get much of a measurement. Also — the isotopes are inside the food, so taking a measurement from the outside of the food (fruit, vegetable, can, or whatever it is) isn't likely to give you much idea of what's inside.

          In other words, you could have a half pint of milk with high cesium levels, and the increase in radiation wouldn't look like much when measured by a civilian type geiger counter.

          Does that make sense? (Not my area of expertise, just recounting what some others have said.)

          More discussion of this in archives at monitoring forum.


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      • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

        There is more than one method to test food.

        Around Chernobyl, they have special food radiation detectors set up in contaminated towns, where people go and place their food items into the container, which is a radiation detector.

        I think they are looking only for cesium, but I have only seen these in operation in videos, never in real life.

        I use muscle testing, which requires NO device, no money and no special anything.

        There are also simple rules to follow in case of a nuclear accident, and certain foods to avoid. This was all learned at Chernobyl.

        Those who avoid learning about this, well, suffering is also an option.


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    • hbjon hbjon

      The mad scientist left the building. Next enters the 3 witches from Macbeth to try to stabilize the situation. Tepco, IAEA, and the NRC.Make the gruel thick and slab:
      Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
      For the ingrediants of our caldron.
      Double, double toil and trouble;
      Fire burn, and caldron bubble.
      Cool it with a baboon's blood,
      Then the charm is firm and good.


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  • StillJill StillJill

    many moons,…."…it's like a lab gone wild…the mad scientist has left the room."

    I so love how you cut to the chase,….and boil everything down to PURE , RAW, TRUTH!

    Good chuckle here! :-)


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    • many moons

      KKKK StillJill I love your advice, you write some terrfically uplifting comments that are very real…I find myself repeating some of them to myself and to others….I have to say Thank You!!!!


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  • bleep_hits_blades

    @jill, you didn't get a laugh out of ol' Ms. Depressed here… but a wry smile, you got. (It only hurts when I laugh…)


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  • bleep_hits_blades

    @AGreenRoad… I believe as you do, that we do survive death, in spirit form. Don't belong to any particular religious tradition, but I do believe that – and I think probably one of the things I am here to do, not because I must but because I chose it – is to be active – one among many – in this struggle for 'good to triumph over evil' – basically. (Not that I am perfect – far from it!)

    I just see how the world could be – it could be so good – the benefits of technology freeing up time for people, people having time to pursue their interests, develop their talents, and education becoming more enlightened, less repressive and authoritarian, the environment being cared for and not trashed, and even the animals being treated as if they have feelings (because they DO, they are so much more like us than we realize…)

    Someday, over the rainbow…


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    • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

      We are all working on our 'rainbow' project.

      In some peoples minds, nuclear energy is the 'rainbow'. Sadly, but that is why we have free will.

      So we exist in a world where everyone has free will.. Some are focused on anti life, and some on pro life energies…

      Given that some will experiment with anti life energy to the point of life extinction, if given the opportunity and means, how can we co-exist on the same planet for seven future generations?

      It is an interesting question..

      I think we need to figure out how to cancel out the anti-life energy somehow..

      It is easy to create and transmute anti life elements.

      How do we transmute anti life elements into pro life elements?

      Chickens transmute pro life elements.. They take in only a little lime and calcium, but excrete HUGE quantities of calcium in the form of eggs. I have a feeling that horned animals do the same thing.

      Maybe there is way to transmute these anti life elements into harmless pro life elements? Unless someone asks the question and pursues it, it will remain undiscovered.


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    It's great that scientists such as Dr. Yablokov are talking, even though the assessments are frightening.


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