Controversy after US gov’t estimate showed 40,000 microsievert thyroid dose for California infants from Fukushima — Data not released to public — “Very high doses to children”

Published: March 6th, 2012 at 2:33 pm ET


Follow-up to: [intlink id=”study-all-western-east-coast-covered-airborne-particles-march-20-model-shows-canada-based-solely-reactor-1-explosion-photo” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Japan’s Fukushima Daiichi ET Audio File
Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Thursday, March 17, 2011
Emphasis Added

BRIAN: Did we ever get the — I’m trying to think of what the best term is, the — everything everything (inaudible) scenario back from — I thought that was one we were going to ask NARAC to run once they had time.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Are you talking about the doses they saw all the way out in California?


MALE PARTICIPANT: Yeah. That is going to be run by Research in Sandia, but they are not going to be able to do it until later today.

BRIAN: Oh, okay.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Sounds like they had to modify the code first in order to do that run.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Had to modify the MAC code. They — NARAC did do their evaluation of — using our source term, and they — they were calculating doses, particularly for children — thyroid doses of (inaudible) after — that the one- year dose, assuming some very conservative assumptions about ingestion, and (inaudible) practices. So we had the group — the PMT look at some of the actual data from deposits from Chernobyl, which we had from DITTRA.

BRIAN: Right.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Historical data. And convert those to doses using the same update techniques. And they have some calculations — they hadn’t shown them to be (inaudible), but they are showing millirem range doses, like one to 10 millirem.


MALE PARTICIPANT: For the actual deposits. So we think there is some extreme conservatism in the DITTRA numbers, and we will know more once Research does their (inaudible).

BRIAN: Okay.


MR. LEWIS [Robert Lewis, Director of NRC’s Division of Preparedness and Response]: Okay. Good morning. I will cover four things that occupied most of the protective measures team time last night. First, there was a flight by NARAC last night […] We also are working — there was a request coming from last night — before last evening’s shift to develop projections for doses in California. And that is — has been in process. We will need to — in order to do that, we will need to engage with — we already have engaged with the Office of Research. We are looking to engage further with Sandia to make some modifications to the (inaudible) to effectuate those dose estimates in California. In conjunction with that, there was a DITTRA and NARAC dose estimate that was done for California that we obtained as part of the DOE briefing package. And those were estimating what we believe to be very high doses to children, and a thyroid (inaudible) dosage. We think that (inaudible) extremely conservative modeling related to those doses and assumptions. It’s a thyroid dose that involves deposition of material and (inaudible) integrated the dose over a year or two, for example, drinking milk from the same cow that’s grazing on the same contaminated field the entire time, things like that. But once we get the (inaudible), we will have something to compare (inaudible). Also, when we saw those dose estimates, we looked in the historical record for any kind of information related to Chernobyl actual deposits that were measured. We did find some and (inaudible) dose activity per area of deposits that were estimated — I think they were provided from DITTRA. We did the same dose calculations with those concentrations, and the doses were approximately 1,000 times lower. So we were in the one to 10 millirem range versus full rem range, which was — full rem thyroid dose range, which was being (inaudible) by DOE and DOE (inaudible). […]

MIKE: Rob, this is (inaudible). I have a question for you. This request for doses in California projected with, I guess, worst-case assumptions, is that correct? (Inaudible.)

MR. LEWIS: I believe the doses that we saw from DITTRA represented a source term of 100 percent of the (inaudible).

MIKE: Okay. And where — is this information being considered for releasing publicly, like we do with the press release?

MR. LEWIS: Which information are you speaking about?

MIKE: I’m talking about these projected dose models, the models that you — the ones that you are doing and coordinating with other agencies, is there some thought about releasing that publicly?

MR. LEWIS: We have not had that discussion at this time.

MIKE: And don’t take that as a suggestion to (inaudible). I’m just curious as to how we came upon doing that with our press release, and then, are we advocating that for any future press releases here for doses in the U.S.?

MR. DORMAN: Mike, this is Dan. No. No, we’re not planning any press release with this information. This was a projection that we were requested to run. Separate from our being requested to run that, we got this DOE briefing package that had this other DITTRA run in it, and we’re not — I don’t know what prompted theirs or all of the assumptions that went into theirs, but it obviously caught our attention and we are looking to get what we think would be more realistic projections. Other questions?

MS. HOWE: Dan, just one comment, and Rob. This is Linda Howe in Region IV. Rob, I can talk with you offline about some background information for California. The DITTRA and DOE runs for California may have been prompted by queries from the state, because the state has been conducting interagency conference calls, and DOE, EPA, HHS, has been part of those calls. Our regional state liaison officer is also monitoring that, but there is some background that is politically sensitive that I can share with you offline.

MR. DORMAN: Okay. Thanks, Linda. That’s good.


MR. HICKSMAN: This is Tom Hicksman. Could you please repeat the DITTRA projection and our calculation for the thyroid dose rates in California, please?

MR. LEWIS: Well, our calculations are not done.

MR. HICKSMAN: But you thought that they might be 1,000 times less, or that they are —

MR. LEWIS: Yeah. The DITTRA result was four rem [40,000 microsieverts] to the thyroid of a one year-old child based on one year integration of uptake. They —

MR. HICKSMAN: I think it —

MR. LEWIS: What we did during the past shift was looked at the actual deposition rates in California from the Chernobyl accident in 1986 and extrapolated that out and came up with a comparable dose rate on the order of one to 10 millirem. So that kind of reinforced our disbelief of the DITTRA number when we saw it. But then, separately, Research is working with Sandia to do a separate run.

MALE PARTICIPANT: Just for clarity, we want to attribute the calculation for NARAC. Okay. It’s not (inaudible), it’s NARAC — the calculation.

MR. DORMAN: Any other questions?

MALE PARTICIPANT: And also, to clarify, we don’t have a run of it. We just have the output —


MALE PARTICIPANT: — that suggests the thyroid doses.

Published: March 6th, 2012 at 2:33 pm ET


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368 comments to Controversy after US gov’t estimate showed 40,000 microsievert thyroid dose for California infants from Fukushima — Data not released to public — “Very high doses to children”

  • aigeezer aigeezer

    Great thread, folks. Fooling around a bit with catchphrases or possible photo captions:

    "We decided not to warn you. Then we told you everything was OK. What's the problem?"

    "The law says blah blah. We ignored that part"

    "I've got a bachelor's degree in engineering, so I decided not to tell you about your medical risk. Trust me."

    "Who could have prevented your thyroid cancer? Me, of course, but I had other priorities."

    "I lied to the president."

    "I lied to the public, but it was necessary to put them in harm's way."

    "You are not part of the 'federal family'. You wouldn't understand why we lied to you."

    "There are 'other considerations' than the law, you know."

    "You didn't elect me. You can't fire me. I can kill you."

    Bitter?… Me?… Nah!

    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      "You didn't elect me. You can't fire me. I can kill you."

      + a zillion

      I would love to see that sprayed on election campaign posters.

      • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

        I'd do it myself, but they still want my fingerprints at the airport, so….nah….

      • What-About-The-Kids

        The news is spreading! Remember my post yesterday, saying this news about the high dose estimates for California children's thyroids not being made public came up with 1,800+ mentions in a Google search?

        Well, today, the same search on Google for "controversy after US gov't estimate" scores 3,470 mentions!

        Please keep spreading the news! Our children need and deserve our protection. Parents need to be aware and know how to help keep their kids healthy and safe.

        Thank you!

    • Dec 14 – Congressman: Fukushima is worst nuclear disaster in world history

      Uploaded by enenewsofficial on Dec 14, 2011
      NRC Oversight Hearing, Dec. 14, 2011

      • SnorkY2K

        I believe that it is number 2 after the disaster of deciding to make all the boiling water power plants

    • or-well

      Yes, we knew.
      Told, we did not,
      that your dear childs'
      thyroid is hot.

      You can have nukes,
      or healthy kids,
      the choice is ours,
      and truth we hid.

      Who controls nukes?
      No one it seems,
      they work or not,
      whatever the schemes.

      But WE control info,
      news and awkward facts,
      by nuke Cointelpro,
      Laws, Regs and Acts.

      WE control spin,
      on sitreps foul,
      WE are insiders,
      ur not so LOL.

      WE have the juice,
      WE have the clout,
      WE have the scoop
      on what it's about.

      WE have the inside track,
      WE blow the smoke,
      you look in OUR mirrors,
      on you is the joke.

      WE mind OUR business,
      WE watch the store,
      WE are the Watchdogs,
      you we ignore.

      Believe all we say,
      walk as in sleep,
      act as if helpless,
      just be good sheep.

      Atoms For Peace!
      Nukes are your friend!
      Cheap, Efficient and Safe!
      We'll lie to the end.

      Where's the Peoples' Ombudsman,
      Where's the control,
      Where's the investigators,
      Where are their souls?

      Where's all the Leaders,
      Where are prosecutors,
      Where are the Media,
      Where's the law-suitors?

      Where are the Healers,
      Lawyers, Judges and Courts,
      Where whistleblowers,
      Clergy, Professors, Pro Sports?

      I'm sick of their cackle –
      let cell doors slam,
      let firing squads aim,
      let the Chair crackle,
      I don't give a damn,
      let the trap drop
      and the rope go taut,
      let the hounds loose
      to hunt and go braying,
      followed by pitchforks
      and hot torches flaming.

      Let there be action
      and protest unquiet,
      marches massive and
      resistance passive
      or mayhem and riot
      and mob satisfaction;
      either way a good licking
      we're going to get
      from nukes run amok,
      in stone that is set.
      The end of nukes or
      just the beginning?
      It's premature to
      say we are winning,
      but the end has begun
      one way or another,
      for nukes or for Life
      on our blue Planet Mother.

      • James2

        You just summarized my thoughts on this situation in this rhyme.

        Thank you.

      • StillJill StillJill

        @or-well. I actually have no words for this one other than to say I have copied it to my 'forever file'! πŸ™‚

        • or-well

          @Still, see arclights "goodbye"? I'm so mad…the "system" WILL do that to us all given a chance, nukes are just part of it…NRC part of it…1984 version 2012.3.7 hello…

          • StillJill StillJill

            No, I did not see arc's goodbye! He can't leave,…I say so! What, when, where,…point me to his post , will you friend? πŸ™

          • Sickputer

            Re: arclight has seen the elephant….and it wears jackboots..


            Pretty lousy, but expected. When our friends in the US stick out like a terrorist if they try to wear a cotton mask on an airplane….what chance does a poor bloke in bonnie England have riding around with a geiger counter on a motorcycle?

            They (TPTB) aren't wired like us. Strong gene contamination from Neanderthal lines I am convinced. >;-) Although that is probably an insult to the big-brained ancestors.

      • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

        +1000 Thank you or-well πŸ™‚

      • What-About-The-Kids

        1million+!!! Genius, Or-well. Love your ability to capture the anger and outrage and insanity in your awesome poetry. Thank you for all you add to this forum. πŸ™‚

      • PoorDaddy PoorDaddy

        Thanks again, or-well. I just posted this one on my FB page as my Daily Nuclear Tidbit.

      • aigeezer aigeezer

        "on our blue Planet Mother".

        We face a ghastly false dichotomy. Nuke power offers the most dramatic risk, but as alternatives we are offered:


        In anotherpost, StillJill understandably urges "saving the children first" as a form of triage, but there is no safe place in which to save them. We must change direction dramatically on several fronts at once. The stakes are huge.

      • B.Stone

        Great poem! Terrible that what you've written had to even be thought of though….

      • @or-well
        March 7, 2012 at 10:17 am
        But read this also and add more,
        Please Sir, may I have some more?

        And there are people out there in India who are actively in the process of taking it for granted that the nuclear protesters at Kudankulam,etc are suffering from mental disease and thus psychiatricks must be devised to make them believe that falsehood is real! It is totally anti Mahatma Gandhi stuff!
        To what defamatory insults are citizens being reduced to by modern civilization's ruling fascists!
        This is the political milieu in India which reminds me of the methods some governments adopt to brainwash agents.

    • What-About-The-Kids

      Here is some news that should give Enenewsers a bit of hope and good cheer:

      This article about how the projections of high thyroid exposure for California children were not shared with the public has gotten nearly 8,000 views in 24 hours!

      Also, a quick Google search for "controversy after u.s. gov't estimate" ends up with 1,260 results! The word IS spreading, thanks to Enenews and all of you who contribute or share what you read with others. Keep up the good work, all! And thank you!

      • Kevin Kevin

        Very encouraging indeed. It seems a good amount of bloggers have linked up to the post.

        Good stuff.

        • What-About-The-Kids

          Yes, good stuff. Now it is up to us to continue spreading the news, and not get distracted. This news needs to get out, and not get buried here in enenews. It needs to be front row and center here, as THIS is the kind of information that will capture the hearts and minds of the public.. as it hits home and makes all of this PERSONAL. No other issue is more important that protecting our children.

          That being said, it is sad that news of Japanese children affected by this atrocity has not gotten the attention it deserves, but this story will serve to first wake people up, and once we have their attention, we can share the rest of what we
          have learned here. Step by step, the truth will be revealed.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Bloody airports…I haven't/won't travel by air…. I have an aversion to being touched by strangers and the TSA hires scum….

  • James2

    This thread count is going up fast.

    If you are visiting here at Enenews for the first time – let me tell you some things.

    First you may find some information that seems shocking – that you haven't seen elsewhere.

    Information about the nuclear plants continuing to melt down over the course of an entire year – and you haven't been told;

    information about how the radiation covered the northern hemisphere – hit the US west coast hard, and you haven't been told.

    Information about how your families may have suffered life-threatening exposure to radiation – and you haven't been told.

    Not only weren't you told. The governments of Japan, The United States, UK, France and many others actively participated in hiding this information from you.

    Now it's your turn – you need to demand that these folks expose the truth. Right now – it's life or death.

    • hbjon hbjon

      I think it's death or death James. Don't you think it's too late to make any meaningful difference? Some wild speculation says our thyroids are toast. As the radioactive particles flow through our veins, the brain senses it in ways not fully understood. The brain takes action by causing the lymph and thyroid glands to takeup the elements causing the problems. Actually, the kidneys, liver, and appendix do some of that as well. However, the kidneys and liver have a problem with things that are really small and attach themselves to required nourishment. The body can break these things down, however, the chemical imbalance will cause disease in a region where charged particles concentrates. More speculation on my part relates how cancer can spread from one radiated location of the body to another or otherwise known as the phenomena of "metastesizing cancer". Perhaps some day life will detect the presence of radioactive particles early enough, and develop the ability to wash them out of the tissue before they cause disease.

      • James2

        I cannot comment, because I'm not a doctor. I wish I had the answer.

        If the answer were as you state – I certainly would not be wasting my time here. So I hold out hope, possibly blind hope, that it is not so.

        But if the information were made public and disseminated publicly those who are would surely be able to do the analysis relatively quickly and easily

        • hbjon hbjon

          I'm a 46 yo dumptruck driver and I have some expertise in human physiology. I can freely tell you that a wart may go away on its own without surgery. A broken bone and sunburn will heal over time. Puss is generated in wounds and is seen as a necesary process of healing. Blood travels through the body and carries vital nutrients to the tissues. And people are dummied down by the healthcare industry and hypnotized to not speak about common sense health issues. " I cannot comment, because I'm not a doctor." This sentence was flashed on movie screens and television sets throughout America back in the 80's by the healthcare industry. Rise sheeple. Lift yourselves out of the trance.

          • Perfect….

            Exactly, because I have not been trained in the things academia wants "professionals" to know as fact….I cannot comment even though a simple thought process and sensory observation can tell me everything that I need to know about 95% of everything that is important.

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        Went around my house and plugged all the cracks around the windows & doors, electrical sockets. the garage door seal, etc. right around 3/14. Then started the iodine and haven't stopped since (low dose Lugol's now). Probably not a bad idea for everyone to keep liver, kidneys, and lymphatic system flushed out. If you're not sure how to do it, have a look at "radiation protection" at forum here. Or see, or Lyme Disease groups — Lymies have to become experts at detox. What works for Lyme detox is basically the same protocol as radiation detox; heavy metal detox, keeping high mineral levels, and so forth.

        • StillJill StillJill

          Same as those who recover from cancer. Lots of detoxes, purging heavy metals, tons of minerals, like coral calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium even, pink crystal, etc. It becomes a way of life,….or you go back into the 'dying line'. Think I'll stay alkalized,…thank you very much! πŸ™‚

      • What-About-The-Kids

        HBJon: "Perhaps someday life will detect the presence of radioactive particles early enough, and develop the ability to wash them out before they cause disease."

        Just found this article in R&D mag today about promising new pill they hope will do just that:

        But in the meantime, natural remedies of chelation and cleansing seem like the best course of action.

  • StillJill StillJill

    Thank you Bobby1,…you are SO right! The priority of ours shouldn't be to end nukes YET,…until the children are out of harms way!
    If this were a field hospital we would know to triage,….you focus on the MOST DIRE who can be saved. Period!

    Who is most dire here? The children already affected,….or shutting down the nuke in your 50 mile radius so this DOESN'T happen to your kids?

    The answer is patently obvious!

    • James2

      I think they both must be done.

      it's highly possible that for those already exposed are already on a very negative path and no amount of truth will help them.

      We just don't know if the terminally expose population is 1% of the population or 100% or what % in-between in between .

      If the number is closer to 100% well then it really doesn't matter what we do with nuke plants, or anything else – party like it's 1999.

      If the number is 75% or less, well then there will be a population to save after Fukushima – and we need to save them from the other nuke plants.

      Additionally there are those who are exposed, but not terminally. That percentage is likely very high. Those folks need short term care, but also will need long-term protection from the nuclear threat.

    • Bobby1

      If every American that went grocery shopping saw a sticker attached to every item in the store, that said how much iodine, cesium, strontium and plutonium was in that item… I think that would convince everybody to end nukes.

      • What-About-The-Kids

        Here, here, Bobby1! If the truth were known…well, that's what our efforts are all about here, getting the truth out. It's just a matter of time now…(Thanks in great part to the Internet, they can no longer keep the truth from us.)

  • Sickputer

    Interesting thread… Has to be top ten In number of followups alltime.

    The hot button issues: children in danger; vacillation/non-action by Peter Principle government employees. Negligence to inform the public borders on criminal behavior, but the government polices itself so good luck proving that in a court of law.

    It is not just the ragtag dirty-dealing misanthropes at the federal level… This coverup only worked so well because it ran the gamut of lowest to highest government employees at the local, state, and federal level. A near perfect trifecta of complicity if you will. But they are sloppy and like us their tormented souls have burned the candle oh so brightly in the past year. The strain is beginning to tell and the rats may be starting to look for an exit.

    Yes a true Kodak moment a few weeks ago when the Apple/Microsoft company of the past 100 years (Kodak) became a penny stock and entered bankruptcy. An omen perhaps? Will they get the helping hand like GM and the banks? Doubtful.

    Permit me the license to digress a bit from this incredible Internet thread. As Sue relates her London escape we feel a slight bend in the On the Road turning point in a year-long fight to escape the overt jeers and silent leers of friends, co-workers, and even a few loved ones who felt Enenewsers were obsessed and perhaps insane.

    But Sue, I am guessing your non-supportive family members will not see any convincing evidence in this NRC transcript. It would take their very own Fukushima Necklace (thyroid cancer removal scar) to budge some people from their mindset and even that might not suffice.

    To be continued…

    • Sickputer

      As a social scientist I am always interested in the side stories like the tormented by doubts Idaho couple who joined forces, the traveling expatriate at Fukushima Diary (a man without a country to some extent) and the bravery and courage of so many on this forum who have risked jobs, relationships, and health to fight against Big Brothers who think they are demi-gods.

      Keep your sanity, keep your sense of humor, and above all keep your cool. The liars like angry people because it gives them an edge in debate. Remember the art of tact is telling someone to go to hell and have them enjoy the trip.

      • B.Stone

        "Remember the art of tact is telling someone to go to hell and have them enjoy the trip." Now this is a quote I will forever remember.

    • StillJill StillJill

      Beautiful and rousing summation Sickputer! I so appreciate it's flavor my friend!

      Will keep this one also to refer to. πŸ™‚

  • Bobby1

    1. Jaczko declared a nuclear emergency on March 11.

    The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has been in "emergency" status since the United States received tsunami warnings in the wake of a March 11 earthquake that crippled Japanese nuclear reactors last month, documents obtained by Greenwire reveal.

    NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko is using the rarely used status, allowing for the transfer of certain commission decisionmaking powers to himself, because of concerns that the tsunami spawned by the quake could hit the United States. Though that threat subsided within 48 hours, the emergency status continues, according to an email the NRC's Office of Congressional Affairs sent to a senior staffer for the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

    "The chairman has been exercising his emergency authority since that time," the April 4 email said, noting Jaczko had such authority under Section 3 of the Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1980. "The agency will return to a non-emergency status when the situation warrants."

    2. The nuclear emergency declaration has not been rescinded.

    The GOP lawmakers say the latest example stems from Jaczko's declaration in March that Japan's nuclear crisis constituted an emergency in the United States.

    GOP Sens. James Inhofe of Oklahoma, John Barrasso of Wyoming, Jeff Sessions of Alabama and David Vitter of Louisiana said it is not clear that Jaczko had authority to make such a declaration, which grants him additional powers, since the crisis occurred on foreign soil. The senators also said they were not certain that Jaczko has rescinded the order, despite his public claims to the contrary.

    • James2

      Ras scrambling for cover of "emergency orders"

    • Bobby1

      3. The powers granted to the NRC chairman by Section 3 of the Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1980 during an emergency include disseminating radioactive contamination information to civil authorities and the general public.

      Sec. 3. (a) Notwithstanding sections 1 and 2 of this Reorganization
      Plan, there are hereby transferred to the Chairman all the functions vested in the Commission pertaining to an emergency concerning a particular facility or materials licensed or regulated by the Commission, including the functions of declaring, responding, issuing orders, determining specific policies, advising the civil authorities, and the public, directing, and coordinating actions relative to such emergency incident.

      • Bobby1

        Jaczko was fully aware of the radiological consequences to the US from the Fukushima catastrophe. He lied about it to Obama and to the public. And he assumed emergency powers in order to prevent the dissemination of information about these radiological consequences, which continues to the present day.

        (p. 271 of the pdf)

        • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

          @Bobby1 ..exactly..Jaczko has been involved in this situation at all points…not just overview..but in the entire decision making process.
          Many parties in the hearing both on the right and the left…knew/know that Jaczko's testimony was false.
          I must admit it was brilliant on his part to slow the voting process…withdraw the first vote some sort of "mock-up"
          ..then vote against the rest.
          Fish head brilliance…
          Jacsko went into the hearings..filthy with conspiracy..and has laughed in the faces of those that will be affected.
          I hope it's ok..I still dislike him…

          He lied during hearings…Obama lied during his address.

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          And they can do it (or think they can) because they don't have to disclose anything that is a potential threat to "national security." The Patriot Act(s), DHS, Executive Orders, and everything else reinforcing that concept is collectively allow just about anything, including genocide under the guise of "national security."

          Read Clinton's Executive Orders if you don't already understand how this works.

  • StillJill StillJill

    On that sociology interpretation,….I have gotten an eye full this week in my roommate. All this time, 8 months that I've known him, he's seen me with 'weird symptoms', then obvious radiation sickness effects, etc,…(Known to me),…and he looks at me (it) as, "it must be because of her lifestyle,…because she's not",….etc, etc,…ad nausium. Now this week he sucks in a 'hot tottie',….and it's tearing him a new asshole,…in every way. Boy Oh Boy,…has he gone from 0 to 60 in under one second! He's on the phone everyday calling people to WARN them about Fukushima! One the one hand,…what a selfish bastard,…on the other,….Yipeeeeeee, it works,…when they or their kids get 'weird FUKU-sick',…..YOU KNOW WHEN YOU KNOW I guess! πŸ™‚

  • CaptD CaptD

    Notice: More NRC comments from "MALE PARTICIPANT" which to me suggests someone that is looking out for the Administration and or the Nuclear Industry, instead of the public's HEALTH, from INSIDE THE NRC…



      @CaptD: what's equally revealing, is the amount of responses to this article. As someone pointed out several days ago, more than anything else, we are compelled by self-interest above all others. This may seem natural on the face of it, but it is this selfishness that got us here! When we learn to fight as hard for the losses of those ten-thousand miles away than we do for ourselves, we will begin to see real progress. I think most on this site get this. Unfortunately, we'll have to suffer through the learning curve of those about us…

      • Kevin Kevin

        ITs a valid poiont you make aftershock,

        I think most of the folks commenting here have been at this for sometime. All of us are motivated for different reasons, and that at times works against progress as you point out.

        However the long time posters here have clearly fought the good fight on all fronts. For people in Japan, especially the children, and for people closer to home and for our own families.

        That said, the reason, from my perspective, that we see such interest in this thread is two fold. The thing that struck me while searching relevant data and putting together the puzzle was we are finally able to build the case that the cover up was immediate, calculated, confessed, carried out and continued. All of which this thread proves beyond a shadow of a doubt and we have all the supporting information to uphold the claims.

        Now alof of us here have known this for a long time and many prior threads have obviously poured over these issues. However none have crystalized it as this one has with confessions from the culprits and so on. Moreover, many of the long lasting and frequent posters here have dealt with the FUku syndrome of otracization, isolation, mariginalization and tin foil hat stuff. This here thread does away with that and allows those who have been handed tin foil hats to return them to the folks who provided them, as the facts here make those that deny the story the ones in need of them.

        All of these factors and more, which I have earlier posted, come together to create a great deal of interest. And in myu opinion a point where people can jump in take action. Spread the word, get it out there. Instead of simply harping at each other here, splitting hairs and smoking out shills.

  • StillJill StillJill

    AFTERSHOCK,…" Unfortunately, we'll have to suffer through the learning curve of those about us…"

    HERE, here to THAT one my good buddy! πŸ™‚


      @StillJill: I know I'm only stating the obvious. I just wish (and hope) we all (including the self-centered) have enough time to get past our own complacency and ignorance. Protecting the earth is as paramount as protecting children! The fact that we're all in agreement when it comes to hanging a pederast should also translate into zero-tolerance for those who knowingly abuse our environment. And for all those who'd continue arguing on behalf of nuclear power, here's – your – f-ing shovel…

  • Sue

    Thanks so much for your very kind words Still Jill. The reason I sent the post was as an extra comment on Kevin's 'who said what' on 17th March. Fox News obviously knew something at the tail end of 16th March re headline: Radiation will hit Southern California on 18th March. For a window of approx 1 hour this was a story then nothing. Someone obviously didn't like this story..and who can blame them.
    Also arclight I just wanted to say that it was your bravery that led me to post in the first place and I really wish that you wouldn't leave.
    Have learnt lots lately about nuclear waste in UK and have decided to go to Hinckley on Saturday. Maybe you will be there too.

    • StillJill StillJill

      Bravo again Sue! You have fresh legs, as it were, a 'Just do it', attitude,….and you're not idealistic it seems. Seasoned!

      Yes our new friend,…please do find 'arc' for us, will you? πŸ™‚

      But stay safe,…we NEED you!

  • jec jec

    wonder if usa is stock piling the chemo? I am still waiting for my chemo meds–for months, they are trying pills,but so far all I do is heave. The drugs–for leukeamis–just wemt "missing"…

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Jaczko..quote: "And you know,trying to monitor an event in a Japanese facility is probably not the most effective use of my time."
    Leaving staff to work up the story line…he himself indulging in a good night's rest…. pg 256.

  • whoarewe

    The failure to understand the utmost importance of coincidence or randomness issue at the philosophical level is the single biggest failure of the mankind. The other side of the this is logics AKA cause and effect AKA patterns. Such a conclusion itself, ironically, is the cause to ALL consequences mankind is living with, and about to face its ultimate destiny.
    The entire "nuclear power" history is a perfect example of the above. To understand the atom, you have to go one layer deeper AT LEAST. You have to understand the subatomic particles. Why? Cause and Effect. We have to talk about the Quantum Mechanics. Zoom back. The "duality" of this theory is a direct challenge to the cause and effect philosophy AKA everything we know at that point. MANKIND was at a critical threshold at that point. Instead of continuing the debate lead by Einstein and Bohr, the mankind went rogue. Efforts are "diverted" to "tinker" with nuclear fission AKA the Manhattan Project. "J. Oppenheimer team" did not know how these particles behave and how they interact with each other. They resorted to statistical probability. Zoom in here. Statistical analysis becomes necessary when humans deal with the "black box" AKA the unknown. In order to get the criticality with a required efficiency of "nuclear fuels", they threw in everything they got. The problems with "monkey see monkey do" are that 1)there is no antidote. You cannot reverse the process or negate/neutralize the process; 2)the COMPLETE and exact effect is unknown. Fast forward. They started to build the so-called containment.The paradox of this is, how can you contain the containment if the outside forces are unknown. Fast forward more, here we are, dealing with a full blown nuclear fallout. THe kicker is EVERY nuclear plant on this planet is built on the same logical fallacy: containment can be contained with the unknown external forces within the half lives @ thousands or millions of years for radionuclides, To be…

  • whoarewe

    THe kicker is EVERY nuclear plant on this planet is built on the same logical fallacy: containment can be contained with the unknown external forces within the half lives @ thousands or millions of years for radionuclides, not to mention the internal structure deficiencies and human errors. Zoom in here for the half life issue. How many MAJOR changes has the Earth gone through in the last thousands of years? How about these changes are in cycles?
    How about this for "supporting evidence"? A X-5 class CME is coming to the "Planet of Children". What a "coincidence"! Well, as Paul, the "alien", would say, your earthmen are fxxxnuts. It is the "probing time"!

    Pause there for a second. Is this a coincidence that this CME comes when there are breath-taking alignments of the Mars-Venus-Jupiter-Moon-Saturn-Mercury that have been going on since the Feb.?

    When you look up to the "heaven", you need to ask yourself: Are we a knowlege-based civilization?

    To be continued…

  • CaptD CaptD

    HUGE NEWS…. THEY KNEW… and choose N☒T to tell

    RE this snip:
    MR. DORMAN: Mike, this is Dan. No. No, we’re not planning any press release with this information. This was a projection that we were requested to run. Separate from our being requested to run that, we got this DOE briefing package that had this other DITTRA run in it, and we’re not β€” I don’t know what prompted theirs or all of the assumptions that went into theirs, but it obviously caught our attention and we are looking to get what we think would be more realistic projections. Other questions?
    MS. HOWE: Dan, just one comment, and Rob. This is Linda Howe in Region IV. Rob, I can talk with you offline about some background information for California. The DITTRA and DOE runs for California may have been prompted by queries from the state, because the state has been conducting interagency conference calls, and DOE, EPA, HHS, has been part of those calls. Our regional state liaison officer is also monitoring that, but there is some background that is politically sensitive that I can share with you offline.

  • B.Stone

    …So now what do we do? I mean, WE all know the truth. We can spread the truth out to EVERYONE WE CAN but then what? Are we just limited to posting threads and replies online… are we supposed to set up shop and create media attention to ourselves so all of this can be put on local news stations??? Would that even help? I could talk to people about all of this all day until I'm blue in the face, but some people, sadly, won't believe a single word until it's said on their favorite local news station. And even then, after a commercial spot is aired, people forget what they were just warned and only worry about what the commercial was talking about! Just like the Oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, the news stations don't talk about it anymore so now the people don't think about it or they sincerely believe that it's all cleaned up and fixed. People don't hear about Fuku', and they haven't been warned of the effects on the US…and even if everyone did know that brings me back to my previous question of…WHAT DO WE DO???

    • Apparently we commit collective suicide.

      I found this incredible report published in the 1950s about radiation caused mutations and the mechanics of how they bio-accumulate across generations.

      We are on the brink, based on what I know about point mutations,

      and we are too @#$%^&* stupid to do anything about it because we are so compliant to authority and so parochial in perspective

      I'm sorry but I just don't know what else to do.

      I've written congressional representatives, the EPA, and my state governor. I've written to my school superintendent. I've blogged and I've taught in the classroom.

      No one can wake up enough to care.

      And the powers that be (especially the ones who really know what is happening) are simply going to let it happen without telling us…

    • We prepare silently for the apocalypse, To protect our loved ones and selves from the dangers we knew were there all along.

      As there is no reason to consider the situation should improve before the next catastrophic radiation release occurs. So take the time to prepare, and use it wisely. If things should continue to escalate, This would be the best way to spend your time.

      Wouldn't you agree.

      Once the masses weigh in on what you know, it will be anarchy. So I advise you use this time as a window of opportunity, by educating yourself about the future you project that will occur. Its all about your intuition my friend. Apply it as if there truly were no tomorrow.

      • richard richard

        Have you done a 'Tom Hopkins' course Taco ? πŸ˜‰

        You're right about "there is no reason to consider the situation should improve" – that pretty much sums it up.

        Tepclowns and the Japanese guvburment are lying and/or incompetent. Don't expect any chance of survival from those criminal fools.

        Until that situation changes (ie, international help) we are not in a good stead.

        • Sam Sam

          Maybe you need to sit ZaZen and have the master wack you into momentary
          awareness. You have totally misread the intent of Tacomagroove's postings.
          i have been reading them for along time here on this site. The truth of Fukushima
          is so deeply disturbing that it takes wisdom to handle it. most people cannot
          deal with it. There is no con job going on in selling anything here on this site.
          Perhaps this is too difficult for you to deal with. Get some support and take a
          break. What is happening has never before faced the human race. It is
          horrific. Worse than any nightmare I have ever had in my life.

          • richard richard

            thanks sam. i'm all zen like, don't worry about that. I have no trouble understanding the words of taco.

            Those that have done a Tom Hopkins course may recognise what I'm talking about, if not, don't worry about it. You had to be there to appreciate the joke πŸ™‚

      • Tacoma

        There is no way that I can see to prepare.

        I live in the desert (and I got my graveyard boots on – Springstein)

        There is no way to store enough food and water

        Unless you have access to a fossil well and some way of growing food inside for long periods, you are as screwed as the person who doesn't prepare.

        However, I don't think this is going to unwind that quickly (at least, I hope not).

        I suspect it is going to be a lot more like Children of Men, but slower (across generations).

        And I think if people believe the Japanese gov will evacuate Tokyo if a spent fuel pool collapses,

        then they are deluded.

        • Majia
          In my opinion I believe that if a spent fuel pool collapses:

          There will be no need for an evacuation.

          The house of cards will quickly tumble, allowing every reactor on site to share the same fate. The fate of japan, the fate of humanity. The fate of the world…

          Do not lose hope. You are amongst the most educated individuals on the planet here on enenews, with a compassion that besieges your grace. You have the ablity to see through the iron curtain, to maintain your good health, and educate yourself beyond the events that will transpire. Never lose hope, or be afraid my friend. These are the symptoms, not the solutions…

          In the end You will see that relocation is optimal. Whether it mean that you will travel to the home of your maker; Or away to make a new home. I have a fervent confidence in your ability to succeed this catastrophe.

          It is true that I have written a great many posts here.
          Many of which have received global recognition.

          However If I followed the lessons of tom hopkins, I would only have found the fortune of man. Not the fortune of mans testament.

          I prefer the lessons that are taught in such writings as "The tao of pooh". Richard. I am a humble person that cares not for such royalties, Something ive found is common in the people whose company I enjoy; As I find uncommon in the people I despise.
          Thank you for loving the world Majia.
          Thank you endlessly

          • richard richard

            hi taco.. i never said 'follow' lessons from tom hopkins. but all of us recieve information throughout our lives from many sources, whether they are right or wrong or grey is not the issue. it's the learning.

            TH was a book handed to me to read in some of my earlier years. It doesn't direct my life in any way, it is simply another dimension of information.

            Anyway.. it's really no biggie, it can go out the window. all intended in good humour. πŸ™‚

        • β€œSomeday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny.”
          ― Springsteen

        • Sam Sam

          I am going to go back and re-read Dr. Lifton's book Death in Life, Survivors or Hiroshima.
          He speaks of resignation in Japanese as Akirame which is a work in mourning.
          It means to probe, to illuminate. It is an active confrontation.
          What is challenging all of us now is how to deal with a new reality which is
          the ultimate destruction of human continuity.How do we live out our lives with this
          death anxiety.? The death demon set loose by Fukushima is so shattering that it is
          impossible to hide from it,
          We all need life sustaining and enhancing rituals to live through this to the end.
          Nukelschen with the music to the imagery of Fukushima for me is one sublime ritual
          that helps me in ;my constant work of mourning.
          just some thought to your post.

    • richard richard

      Some of us are joining up with other activists ..

      some of us donate to animal welfare and activist groups ..

      like sea shepherd and world wildlife foundation

      some people are retraining themselves as nuclear engineers so that we can bring the system undone.

      I've come up with this list.. do with it as you can ..

      donate, investigate, particpate.

      Or, assume crash positions.

      Your choice.

  • Sickputer

    BStone typed these pixels of light: We can spread the truth out to EVERYONE WE CAN but then what?

    SP: Just like a minister trying to bring in lost sheep, you too can be an evangelist of sorts. I don't know if you ever listened to Arlo Guthries very long song Alice's Restaurant, but here is the ending:

    "And the only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if you are in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
    And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
    singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singing a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may think it's a movement.

    And that's what it is, the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it comes around on the guitar.

    SP: Your line to sing to strangers is: Japan is in trouble. (then…

    • Sickputer

      Oops..caught by the quota!

      Actually just engage strangers in conversational chitchat and then get a hook in somehow, someway that lets them know things are now not right in Tokyo Disney Land…You will get good in finding the opening.

      Just say…You know Japan is in big trouble, the nuclear plant has been spewing radiation in the wind and water for 15 months and it is blowing all across the globe. (then walk out)

      The power of word of mouth…don't let the liars in government win every feeble mind. We just need a few million brave souls who can make a stand and we will give the liars a battle they never expected..

      • You are much more patient than I am Sp.

        I too tried to inform people of the dangers our race has inherited. (I did good too).

        I too witnessed no change in the collective conscious.

        A plague of all our houses.

        • Sickputer

          You probably did better than you think, but people feel powerless to do much even when they see the light.

          I have seen a shift in social awareness though. Many of the people I engage in conversation are now aware there is a problem. And they don't look at me like I am an alien.

          Sample: I tell the stocker yesterday at United grocery I won't buy certain produce and prefer food from way south because of the radiation in Ammerican crops on the west coast. He nods his head in agreement. Little things like that. A year ago I would have received the blank look.

          • Sam Sam

            Would it not be great to have readings on produce etc coming from
            South America, Africa etc………Can we trust the label organic from there.
            Lot of pesticides and preservatives on the produce as it takes time for
            shipping. Yet I commend you for the effort.

  • Sickputer

    Remember it took 45 years from the 1964 Surgeon General's report on smoking to help slow down secondhand smoke in America. Certainly this didn't work worldwide, but it did here. I remember my first days as an educator and the teachers lounge looked like an opium den.

    Those unrestricted smoking days in America are gone and many people have broke free of the Columbian Exchange curse (within 150 years of the first Europeans coming to the Americas the American Indian tobacco crops spread all around the world and people were addicted from the tip of Chile to the Eskimos in Alaska).

    It may take another 40-50 years to stop nuclear power plants. I will not survive to see it fall, but I will be here at the beginning of their end just as I opposed it 40 years ago when there was no hope of breaking the governemnt stranglehold on information flow. The Information Age will be the death of Big Nukes. No longer will false statements go unchallenged.

  • Jebus Jebus

    A little message from Arlo, two actually…

    Listen to all of it, the answer and the reasons why are right there on stage.

    Arlo's message's are true.

    It has been done before. In the 60's and 70's. There is no reason that it can not be done again. The industry was driven underground and as we all have learned, caused the industry to offshore the the nuclear madness to the unwitting Japanese. Our elders went to the meetings, went out into the streets, created and sang the songs, and brought the issue to the masses. They almost succeded in snuffing out the radioactive fire, but it got away. They told us about the dangers, the fallout, the bioaccumulation, the threat of annihilation. They warned everyone and almost succeded.
    Somewhere down the line we boomers got sucked into the machine and lost that message, we lost the drive, and we lost the lession of nuclear. We did not teach our children, like they tried. We all know now, that we must teach our children.
    Patience and people are what will turn the tide. Together we stand, divided we get irradiated more.
    We must carry and keep the torch lit that our elders carried. We must speak the message that they sent. We must bring our truth to the fight. We must take back our land, soul by soul, or our children pay the ultimate price. It has to end where it started. If we do this in America, the rest of the world will follow. It truly is the only way.

    Does anyone have a…

    • Jebus Jebus

      Does anyone have a better idea?

    • Love Arlo

      I always have my students in one of my classes watch (parts of) the Great Depression series put out by PBS.

      People in the past did get out in great numbers to protest for their rights and justice.

      We should look to the courage of previous generations.

      I'm in my late 40s…my generation rarely speaks up (although some of our music, film, and art occasionally does)

      night all…