“Domino Effect” below giant sinkhole? Officials concerned about stability of rest of salt dome — Failed cavern may affect other caverns

Published: January 20th, 2013 at 12:50 am ET
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Title: Sinkhole to be seen in 3-D
Source: HoumaToday
Author: Xerxes Wilson
Date: January 19, 2013

[...] Another concern is the stability of the rest of the salt dome. [John Boudreaux, Assumption Parish Office of Emergency Preparedness director] noted there are other caverns inside the dome and some house oil and gas.

“The concern is this cavern would have a domino effect on other caverns because this one is failing,” Boudreaux said. “It could cause a bigger problem.” [...]

… hours later: Officials: 'Growth event' underway at giant sinkhole -- Salt may be shifting underground -- Site evacuated, equipment removed -- Oxy 3 well pad in jeopardy (MAP)

Published: January 20th, 2013 at 12:50 am ET
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49 comments

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  3. Top Expert: Fears Napoleonville salt dome to continue to break up below giant sinkhole; “An underground Mt. Everest” — Over 50 caverns inside, some with explosive gas December 15, 2012
  4. Federal Lawsuit: Giant Sinkhole May Be Radioactive — Failed salt cavern “may have breached Napoleonville Dome’s outer wall” August 13, 2012
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49 comments to “Domino Effect” below giant sinkhole? Officials concerned about stability of rest of salt dome — Failed cavern may affect other caverns

  • razzz razzz

    I'll wait for the 3D assessment if the salt dome can wait that long.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    His concern has validity. I can promise you LDNR, nor Texas Brine will admit to it though. They are already complicit in a Cover Up!

    LOUISIANA SINKHOLE AND PROOF LDNR AND TEXAS BRINE KNEW OXY 3 COULD FAIL IN 2010
    http://freedomrox.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/louisiana-sinkhole-and-proof-ldnr-and-texas-brine-knew-oxy-3-could-fail-in-2010/


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  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

    notice how they can make complex 3d imaging of ground structures deep into the earth but cannot figure out whats happening below Fukushima. Speaking of capabilities, the Transocean jackup GSF Rig drilled the industry’s longest well in 2008 at 40,320 feet with a 35,770-foot horizontal section. The well was drilled offshore Qatar in 36 days and was incident-free. Point is; mega industry's simultaneous competence and incompetence stands out like Pinocchios nose.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Did they expect anything other?
    The situation is on-going..DUH..
    The officials are concerned..the officials are concerned.
    Let them evacuate the people then..buy them out.
    Then they can be wankers on their own time.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    You don't get it Rose. You were proven right! The bottom part of the Aquifer invaded just under the Caprock. Didn't you read my article?

    To make matters even worse, please download the bottom three TIF’s of the Gamma Ray Survey performed on 8/22/2012, and understand how Mr. Hecox could honestly say, “There has been a Frack Out of the cavern.”

    “Frack Out” is a term used to describe an over-pressure of fluid that overwhelms the medium within which it operates.

    They have known since August 22nd precisely what was happening to the cavern, yet have done nothing to mitigate the disaster.

    The Survey shows that there has been infiltration of the salt at 700 ft. by the bottom of the Aquifer, and shows that from 3600 ft. down, that the cavern was blown out and a wreck.

    No more proof is needed. The resident’s and their lawyers can now proceed with actions against Texas Brine, and the State of Louisiana Dept. of Natural Resources for Willful Neglect and Harm, and a host of other criminal and civil charges.

    http://freedomrox.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/louisiana-sinkhole-and-proof-ldnr-and-texas-brine-knew-oxy-3-could-fail-in-2010/


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    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      frox – what do the G-N logs have to do with Hecox and the frack-out? It's not an attack. The two seem entirely unrelated.


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      • FREEDOMROX

        Have you blown up the TIF's yet, Paveway? This survey shows that every party with access to them knew exactly what had happened while they danced around and said we need a better look for 5 months…

        It was obfuscation, prevarication, and outright lies! Even a layman can figure out those images. Same with the 2010 VSP and the SONAR images. The bottom one thousand feet of the cavern was aggressively pressing against the shale sheath for years. The Gamma survey on 8/22 show it had explosively 'fracked out'.

        All that's let then is the solution. I have many theories on how that could have been accomplished in a very short period of time.

        This has been nothing but Willful Neglect!


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        • PavewayIII PavewayIII

          Yes, I've looked at them frox. Probably not since last August though.

          The Gamma Neutron logs are from 1982. They can't possibly show anything about the cavern because they're done in the initial bore before they even start solution mining. There was no cavern in 1982.

          Micro Gauge ran the first set on 5-4-82 after they had drilled down to 1055'.

          The gamma-neutron tif that goes from the surface to 1040' was run through the 24" casing and open hole into the first few hundred feet of salt. Left side is passive gamma, just like a geiger counter. Right side is gamma shine from a neutron source.

          Nothing interesting on the gamma log. The units are API units – no idea what they represent, just that >50 is usually shale and <20 is limestone or sandstone.

          The neutron source illuminates anything with hydrogen like water or hydrocarbons and is picked up by a gamma detector. It works through the casing. The dome salt lights up because of the pore water, I think. I don't know how to read logs.

          The second tif file from 700' to 1000' – marked 'Caliper' is just that. They're measuring the width of the open hole – 18 1/2 inches unless the drilling mud washed softer sediment out.

          The huge tif from French Well Surveys is labeled "Gamma Ray – Neutron". The date is quite illegible – maybe 6-22-82? I think that's when the well was completed. It looks like they found the bottom early and checked again.


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          • FREEDOMROX

            If this proves to be true then I shall retract that portion of the article. Right now though…the direct link to the history page is being blocked. I will have to go the long way to get back in….


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            • FREEDOMROX

              Page is completely blocked here. I will have to take your word for it. Done…


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              • FREEDOMROX

                Does not affect the story in the least… The VSP still proves prior knowledge, and negligence. On that, do you agree?


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                • PavewayIII PavewayIII

                  'Proves' as in the legal sense – considering Louisiana courts, Texas oil guys and shady politicians? Hmmm, I dunno… it wouldn't fly on my planet.

                  I don't have it handy, but didn't they do that VSP back when the cavern seemed OK? I thought they were looking at how close they were to the flank at the 2500' level to confirm they could mine everything below.

                  If that's the case, then it probably could be used to argue the opposite: "…Modeling shows how close the flank *might* be, yet we've had zero problems at that point – we couldn't possibly have breached the flank and simply not noticed. The cavern was fine at the time – no breach. We have no idea what caused the MIT failure, but it couldn't possibly have been a massive breach as the peons' lawyers suggest…"

                  Judge: "We'll take a short recess. I'll speak privately with the defendants' counsel in my chambers. Please bring the… you know… the *envelope*, gentleman"


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                  • FREEDOMROX

                    I hear you Paveway, and it probably was the filing date that threw me. I have to stop pulling 'all nighters'.

                    The VSP was done on Sept. 25th, 2010. It was done because of the proposed 'mill out' to establish a second top cavern, because of concerns that past SONAR soundings showed the bottom 1000 ft pressing up against the shale sheath.

                    Where they thought the Salt was, well, it wasn't. They imagined a sloping edge of the dome. The VSP not only showed that wasn't the case, but that it had a shoulder and a deep backward inclination. This is when they knew the cavern could be compromised and went into high gear to attempt the 2350 ft. 'mill out', thinking they could actually brine out another 'top' cavern, and cut off the lower one.
                    Like, what's gonna happen, huh? See, the State laws, rules, regulations state they must have 300 ft. of salt minimum from the shale sheath rock for a cavern to exist, and they were shown the bottom cavern did not. Only by milling out above could they pump the brine up and allow the bottom cavern to slowly implode as it was emptied. It's just salt you know.
                    Only when they did the MIT they found they had waited too long. So, a quickie P&A, and coverup. Only the Salt Cavern had other plans, and here we are.


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                    • FREEDOMROX

                      BTW, anyone filing would have to do so in Federal Court, since LDNR is a State Agency.

                      I can't stop corruption. But the more the public knows, is that much more pressure for a Judge to think more of his own career, than of the backroom Envelope.


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            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              I think the magical *filing* dates may have thrown you off, frox. They were never in the well file when they scanned in all the old junk. They were stamped received by DNR on 8/22/12.

              These should have been in the files since 1982. What knucklehead was running the Minerals shop back then? I hope they docked his pay and fired him for incompetence.

              I'll just check here a minute… oh, it was WELCH. Go figure.


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              • PavewayIII PavewayIII

                That'll teach me to scream with caps. The Minerals and Energy Board or whatever it was called was run by little Jimmy WELSH back then – the current Commissioner of Conservation… and the future Governor of Louisiana.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Yes..I read it FREEDOMROX…There is little comfort in being right.
    So ..thanks… I get it.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    Well, I do know that feeling. Won't say another word to you. Sorry I bothered you.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    It's cool..FREEDOMROX..I only post so I can sleep at night.
    It's damned if I do …damned if I don't.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    Well, you won't like this any better then. Louisiana Sinkhole Bugle,

    http://lasinkhole.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/sinkhole-barfs-sunday-news/

    reports timely a response from 'The Advocate'

    Sinkhole seismic event studied

    http://theadvocate.com/home/4960234-125/sinkhole-seismic-event-studied

    "“There was a tremendous amount of activity over the past couple of days,” Boudreaux said. (Really, like we hadn't noticed?)

    The sinkhole then “burped” up crude oil, debris and hydrocarbon to its surface around 10 a.m. Saturday, Boudreaux said. After the burp, the seismic activity decreased dramatically. (Really, looking at the Ceri Borehole recorders, not!)

    The latest “burp” is at least the third such event reported. (No, ther have been five, and this was many magnitudes higher than any 'burp', this was a belch!)

    Louisiana Department of Natural Resources scientists have said they suspected that the Texas Brine cavern failed, allowing its saline fluid to gush out and open up the sinkhole.

    (LIARS! We see from the 8/22/2012 Gamma Ray survey, THEY KNEW it had happened)

    Boudreaux said the seismic activity has been pinpointed to shifting salt deposits just east of the failed cavern, about 900 feet into the ground.

    Boudreaux said the seismic activity is a concern to parish officials because it indicates that something might be failing in the salt structure.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    (Cont.)
    (Yes, just as many here have stated, and especially Heart of the Rose, that the Claytard was compromised, and infiltrating and under-cutting the caprock.)

    "Boudreaux also said a few trees toppled on the south side of the sinkhole, but scientists have not determined yet if that means that the edges have sloughed off even further."

    (Yes, we must have scientists to confirm that the eyes saw tress falling in, Huh?)

    "Texas Brine spokesman Sonny Cranch has said the company is aware of the buyout issue but is devoting all of its resources to respond to safety directives issued by the state Office of Conservation."

    (In other words, Texas Brine just sent the resident's a BIG FU middle finger! But, they are considering maybe one day possibly, maybe, hopefully, doubtful, buying you out! Don't hold your breath, even though that is what they want you to do. They would rather you remain, and die quickly, than pay you for your property, because to do that would sacrifice profit)

    “We’re going to take all precautionary measures,” Cranch said. “It’s not unexpected. It has happened before and will very likely happen again because of the nature of this particular situation.”

    (So there you have it. Screw you, it's happened before, gonna happen again, run like hell or die…don't matter to us.)

    Well, it's really about to matter to you all. Evidence has been found of your perfidy and TB and LDNR lawyers will be very busy, very soon!


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    • Cisco Cisco

      FDRX…like your stuff!…following you for about a week. Right on about your assessment of TB vs. those affected. And, the pols are w/TB and the PMIC , ‘cause that’s the way it works down here”.

      What are your thoughts about a cavern purported to contain propane and/or butane approximately 1500 feet (well head, I think) from Oxy-3? What are the odds as to this cavern being breached by Oxy-3?

      There must be a rule or industry standard as to how close to the adjacent cavern they are allowed to be (wall to wall)?


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    • amberlight amberlight

      Let me see if I understand this right: Scientists and industry experts are perplexed about what to do next because they have NEVER seen anything like this before. "Unprecedented" is the word that keeps popping up. Howsomever, according to TB's mouthpiece: “We’re going to take all precautionary measures,” and “It’s not unexpected. It has happened before and will very likely happen again because of the nature of this particular situation.”

      Tell me, Sonny, how do you take "all precautionary measures" against something you don't understand and can't predict from day to day? How is an unprecedented event "not unexpected" cuz it "happened before?" The only accurate statement you made was "will very likely happen again."

      And again, and again, and again… until the people wise up and start lynching those who build their empires on the graves of their victims!


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  • markww markww

    To all ENE Villagers, I just finished writing the editor of the ADVOCATE News Paper in Baton Rouge to setup and help get a blog started where all scientists,first responders, fire,police,others,in saving lives could get together and put their minds to work as to coming up with some working solutions as to this disaster. It would include Government,Industry and others so as to see if we can come up with things each other can do to possibly stop this event. Or at least give it one hell of a Try.

    if i get any answers I will post it.

    Markww


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    I wish a sinkgole would open up in Sonny Cranch's back yard..then we could discuss 'normal'.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "This place is no longer fit for human habitation, and will forever be," shouted one frustrated evacuee at a recent community meeting in Assumption.

    "The Bayou Corne sinkhole is an unprecedented environmental disaster. Geologists say they have never dealt with anything quite like it before, but the sinkhole has made few headlines beyond the local media."

    Unprecedented..!!

    The Bayou Corne Sinkhole: A massive oil and gas disaster you’ve probably never heard of

    http://io9.com/5967858/the-bayou-corne-sinkhole-a-massive-oil-and-gas-disaster-youve-probably-never-heard-of/gallery/1

    Lake Peigneur is bubbling..
    This implies methane is entering the aquifer from somewhere.
    Dec.19 2012.

    Battle Continues to Save Lake Peigneur

    http://www.katc.com/news/battle-continues-to-save-lake-peigneur/#!prettyPhoto/0/

    Both are man-made diasters.
    Let me point out the difference to Mr.Cranch.
    It's the presense of ..OIL.
    OIL…you..(expletive of choice)!


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  • mda2997

    Y'all are still talking about this like it's the end of the world. The sinkhole is nothing more than a big ass hole in the ground that is slightly dangerous to the local population. Why this is even news anymore I will never know, until Louisiana gets swallowed up by this thing no one is going to care. At this point y'all have just run out of directions to point your outlandish conspiracies so you blow up this sinkhole like it's some huge controversy. Maybe 10,000 people will be displaced by this and because this is America people like to cry and bitch about it. There's tens of thousands of children dying in Africa everyday, yet most of you people find the idea of the government lying about a hole in the ground to be much more offensive.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    I don't recall anyone here..labeling this event as the end of the world.
    It is only going to poison an aquifer system..and complete destruction of the local ecosystem…cause a major disruption geologically.
    It is currently endangering 10,000 people..from a land they have lived on and cherished for generations.

    I don't care if it is 10 million people..10,000..or just one.. there are those that are willing to try and help.

    This event being unprecedented..has unprecedented geological implications/complications.

    Now one knows to what extent.
    The situation is ongoing.


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  • Any and all environmental disasters are crimes against nature which in turn are crimes against ourselves that can result in unnecessary suffering and death.

    Large(Fukushima meltdowns) or smaller(toxic sinkholes) is not the point.

    Those who perpetrate these horrendous crimes should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But, usually, they are not. We should not accept this anymore. They hide behind their corporate political veils and high paid lawyers. They may pay a fine and are then off to pollute the next piece on our planet.

    This lies regarding radioactive contamination need to stop here and now. If the children in Africa (or anywhere for that matter) are to even have a chance someday at life on a 'living' planet.


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  • rainbeaudais rainbeaudais

    Most excellent posts Heart of the Rose and ChasAha…!

    especially…."This lies regarding radioactive contamination need to stop here and now. If the children in Africa (or anywhere for that matter) are to even have a chance someday at life on a 'living' planet."


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  • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

    Hi everyone… so glad to be back after complications with my hubby's surgery and an unexpected death in the family… i really missed a ton of what has been going on and appreciate all the comments eveyone posts! You guys rock!


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  • razzz razzz

    mda2997:

    Nice touch with that "Y'all" accent. Governments know about the starving children everywhere and are doing what about it? Texas Brine with their sinkhole is just a microcosm of
    say, a chemical plant in some third world country poisoning a poor defenseless local population.

    There is no difference here between local government and big government as they are both looking out for the companies involved because that is where the money is and the taxpayers are the backstop in case all else fails. Of course, you already knew that like the local authorities knew to evacuate the area before the latest sloughing.

    At Fukushima Daiichi, a temperature sensors reads boiling and it is declared broken, foodstuffs with high radiation readings are mixed and diluted with non-radioactive foodstuffs. The US shuts down their radioactive sensor network and at the same time congratulates Japan for (3) cold shut downs without knowing where the cores are and agrees to continue to import their meats and vegetables into the US without any testing or questions.

    It is amazing how much one industry is coddled at the expensive of the world's population.

    Feed the starving, no but build a nuclear power plant in their backyard, yes.


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