Expert: It’s getting worse and worse at Fukushima plant; Infrastructure deteriorating, corroding very fast — Tepco Adviser: I doubt ice wall can help much — Scientist warns of radiation ‘pulse’ to ocean (AUDIO)

Published: December 5th, 2013 at 2:01 pm ET
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The Guardian, Dec. 3, 2013: Tepco’s latest plan to stem the flow of radioactive groundwater into the ocean is to solidify the soil around the site to form an impermeable “icewall”. [...] Lake Barrett, the US consultant brought in by Tepco, is sceptical of the plan. “I don’t think it’ll make that big a difference. It’s several hundred million dollars, and some of that might be better spent on an integrated water plan,” he says. Even if the ice wall works, it could cause fresh problems. Groundwater flowing out to the ocean keeps seawater from seeping inland at Fukushima. Block that flow, or divert it, and saltwater is sure to encroach. Normally, this would not be a problem. But the soil around Fukushima is laden with radioactive caesium. The substance binds to clay in freshwater conditions, but crucially is released again by saltwater. “If you stop the fresh water flowing out, that would very likely cause the caesium in the ground to be released. You then have a pulse, of what is currently in some way safely buried, going back into the ocean,” says Buesseler. “It is certainly something they should think about.”

Associated Press, Dec. 3, 2013: Officials initially said they were counting on the ice wall, which is currently undergoing a feasibility study, but now say there is no guarantee of its success.

See also: AP: Experts warn about ground sinking at Fukushima plant -- Tepco Adviser: Reactor building structures likely degraded; "Containment degradation" concerns back in 2011

Interview with nuclear policy expert Mycle Schneider,
Radio France Int’l, Dec. 5, 2013: Two years and nine months after the disaster started, we’re in a situation where the conditions on site are actually getting worse and worse. [...] The key problem is that the state of the infrastructure onsite — this means the buildings, it means the tank farm where there’s now 1,000 tanks that contain highly radioactive water, it’s a situation of pools that contain highly radioactive spent fuel [...] — the overall infrastructure deteriorates. And the big problem is we are here in seawater atmosphere, so it’s charged in salt, and this is leading to very fast corrosion, it leads to problem with deterioration of concrete, etc,. etc..

Full broadcast available here

Published: December 5th, 2013 at 2:01 pm ET
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Related Posts

  1. Senior Scientist: Fukushima giant ‘ice wall’ to make crisis worse — Radioactive release into ocean from saltwater intrusion — Side effects ‘not good at all’ (AUDIO) September 22, 2013
  2. “Big Problem”: Cracked floors in Fukushima reactors leaking into groundwater that’s rising and rising and rising due to Tepco wall — “Can no longer be stopped from getting in ocean” — “Worse than that… buildings now on mushy land” (AUDIO) August 28, 2013
  3. Senior Scientist: Fukushima problem getting worse — Leaks from plant becoming stronger — We’re back to where we just can’t predict how long and how much is coming out of there (AUDIO) September 21, 2013
  4. NPR: Melted reactor cores’ radioactivity being carried out to sea — Expert warns saltwater will flow into Fukushima plant if ice wall is installed; “Even if it works, it might not be a good thing… can have ‘unintended consequences’” (AUDIO) September 8, 2013
  5. Nuclear Engineer: Even worse news at Fukushima plant — Radioactive water has formed pathway and is flowing straight into Pacific Ocean (AUDIO) January 31, 2014

183 comments to Expert: It’s getting worse and worse at Fukushima plant; Infrastructure deteriorating, corroding very fast — Tepco Adviser: I doubt ice wall can help much — Scientist warns of radiation ‘pulse’ to ocean (AUDIO)

  • HoTaters HoTaters

    So, what brilliant plan does Lake Barrett have to make things better at the plant? Just wondering, Mr. Barrett, since you have put yourself forward as the "expert" here.


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    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Lake Barrett is simply too stupid for words. He and Buesseler from Woods Hole are quite a pair, aren't they?

      The money "might be better spent on an integrated water plan." Diverting the flow of groundwater around Reactors1-4 doesn't magically make the water disappear. It goes right around the plant and into the ocean. Stupid, meaningless, arguement.

      I prefer The Plan, which includes extending a solid steel and concrete Impermeable Wall completely around Reactors1-4, down to a depth of 100' or so, into bedrock, in order to DIVERT groundwater around the 3 corium lava tubes, so that it doesn't become contaminated in the first place. This is your "integrated water plan", Mr. Barrett, right here.

      If you are going to continue to be this stupid, Lake Barrett, then at least please shut up! ;)


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      • Bones Bones

        This defeatism is being spread through the media right now to prime people's future debates. Eventually, I see people ONLY considering dumping the whole thing and forgetting about it till it kills you or just not. No solutions or interviews with people who have solutions are ever done. No new tech or the knowledge we've already learned. This seems to me to be another psyops like the "ice wall" and they are priming the public with defeatism and then setting the bounds of debate so that both opinion A or opinion B are the same end result the owners want.


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        • Time Is Short Time Is Short

          Same as it always was . . .


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        • freespirit1620

          Excellent description of how they control the population. Just like our 2 party presidential elections. May I use this?


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        • Lucky Man

          One way to help the water storage problem is to get the international community busy making good storage tanks and shipping them over to Japan. My understanding is the Japanese can't make those tanks fast enough and that contributes to poor quality. Lots of good tanks to put that nasty water in would be a start.


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        • VanneV anne

          I suspect that this defeatism is to prepare people for an explosion, whether by accident or planned. If the nuclear industry wants to stupidly continue, they will have to somehow cover over the accident cosmetically. In the case of Japan, whatever they do is going to sink that part of the coast.

          They are absolutely desperate to continue to prop up the markets with the status quo.

          I read that the decision to have the 2020 Olympics in Japan was forced by the nuclear industry. But they simply don't have the time for any more short term solutions.


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          • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

            Defeatism..perhaps for just endless years of it being out of control.the radiation rates rising…but it's under control…look at us we are heroes type scenario.
            TPTB know that the people..have no sense of consequence.
            Ya.. we are going to use 'bunker buster bombs'..in a residential area..but no one is going to get hurt..are they?
            We use DU hand held weapons..but the men holding them..won't get sick will they?

            This type mentality pervades Human thought..

            Gee..there were explosions..it didn't explode or anything did it?
            You mean ..stuff got out?
            Ya..but why is Katy Couric..unhappy?

            What is exposure to athletes..compared to the flag waving?


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      • We Not They Finally

        PhilipUpNorth: On the other hand, if you are the one who is so smart (and you're obviously smart), will you explain to us FINALLY, how in the world anyone can even burrow down 100' AT ALL and all around the plant without getting fried. You keep pushing it. but you never explain the most basic things.

        You've suggested this again and again. But you have yet to EXPLAIN. Explain please. We're waiting with dosimeters and baited breath.


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        • nedlifromvermont

          actually, this could be done remotely … but upgradient from the plant, only the surface is badly contaminated and needs to be removed etc.

          The coffer dam or "French drain" up-gradient (hydrologic gradient) would work, then freeze the ground under the buildings that are leaning … Hey! … it worked for the Leaning Tower of Pisa … and it was the Japanese who did it …

          They built the Sea Wall at Venice, too, I believe. Clever little bastards, those Japanese, … when they wannabe!!

          peace, 'newsers …


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          • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

            Impermeable Wall: The technology has been proven safe. Notice the number of prople observing construction in the photo on the right?
            http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2013/07/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-contaminated.html
            Here is the article on the project:
            http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2013/07/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-contaminated.html

            The concept was flawed. Build an underground wall half way around the plant. Then use pumps to lower the water table inland from the Ruins. This approach was doomed to failure when it was found that water from the 12 uphill wells was too contaminated to be dumped into the Ocean. Then the Government volunteered to build the Frozen Wall, duplicating the Impermeable Wall. When high water threatened to rise to the surface of the ground, construction of the Impermeable Wall was abandoned entirely.

            Why is tne Impermeable Wall a better idea than the Frozen Wall? If the Impermeable Wall is built entirely around Units1-4, the INFLOW of groundwater will be stopped, with the groundwater diverted AROUND the underground corium lava tubes.
            While the Frozen Wall requires electrical power to operate, the Impermeable Wall does not.
            While the Frozen Wall requires a year to freeze the ground in order to stop the flow of groundwater, the Impermeable Wall functions from the day it is built.
            While the Frozen Wall is only a concept at the moment, the Extended Impermeable Wall is 1/4 complete.

            Many thanks, We Not They Finally, and nedlifromvermont, for…


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            • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

              …for your constructive comments.

              If the inland half of the Extended Impermeable Wall is built first, construction will not cause the groundwater level to rise.


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            • VanneV anne

              They should have tried an impermeable wall west of Fukushima way back in March, 2011.

              It looks like the did the impermeable wall east of Fukushima because they wanted it to fail.

              I read that they did not construct an impermeable wall west of Fukushima because all the fisherman objected, cut since they don't really listen to anyone this was probably just an excuse.

              They may have found out something about the geology while building their wall that they are not releasing, and this may be why they are freezing all the free press and free speech.

              I read that they were planning to use reactors #5 and #6 for the energy needed to freeze the ground and keep it frozen. But this seems to have been declared impossible ( and would have been foolish). Probably the reactors were damaged by the 9.0 earthquake and are not repairable.

              There are really too many secrets and not enough money being spent.

              If they are planning a sarcophagus, the land probably won't be able to bear the weight.


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              • VanneV anne

                “…Liquefaction occurs when saturated soils lose their strength and integrity and begin to flow like water during an earthquake. When this happens, foundations shudder and structures can shift or even sink.
                “Geologists are releasing their findings from the massive undersea earthquake and warning that the eastern coastal regions of Japan are in danger of falling into the trench created in the sea floor….
                ” The areas closest to the epicenter of the quake jumped a full 4 meters (13 feet) closer to the United States, geophysicist Ross Stein at the United States Geological Survey told The New York Times….”
                http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news307_Japan.html


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              • VanneV anne

                According to this study, you have to go down 600 feet (200 meters), to find a different permeable layer:

                “This cross-section shows a ground discontinuity at a depth of around 200 m, corresponding to a change in the nature of the rock. Between ground level and – 200 m, we find the geological layer of Tomioka, dating from the Neogene; the layer below it is older, it is labeled as belonging to the Paleogene – Neogene and corresponds to the Taga layer.
                The third paper presents a detailed analysis, also shown in two cross-sections, of the various geological strata inside this thick Cenozoic sedimentary coating. This is the list of the main strata, identified by letters, from the closest to the surface ground, down to the deepest. It is followed by
                maps, cross-sections and an analytical table:
                -T3: muddy and sandy rock (Tomioka layer, Neogene)
                http://a397.idata.over-blog.com/580×537/4/37/62/00/geologie/geology/tabeau.jpg

                http://ddata.over-blog.com/4/37/62/00/The-Geology-of-Fukushima.pdf


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              • VanneV anne

                There is so much radiation, it is undoubtedly destroying men, equipment, and any infrastructure that is built, even if it were built west of the nuclear power plant.

                The fault under the NPP may very well make any remediation very short lived.

                There was probably so much weapons grade plutonium stored on site and being reprocessed on site, that there is much radiation there than we have been told.

                This is a colossal act of hubris by the shadow, ignorant, moronic world government whose members don't seem to realize that radiation doesn't go away and travels around the world every 40 days and that nothing can live in the face of such levels of radiation and nuclear waste.

                The ultimate Ponzi scheme.

                They haven't passed the secrets act for nothing. All the world markets are going to collapse. The Nazis went to North and South America after WWII and we see the Bushes following suit by going to Paraguay and Margaret Thacher is in South Africa.

                However, the lame brain scheme to build more nuclear reactors south of the equator and all the contamination from the Northern hemisphere will soon pollute the entire planet.


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                • VanneV anne

                  there is undoubtedly even much more radiation there than what we have been told. A thousand times more plutonium than was released by Chernobyl. 85 times more cesium. And how about all the other 1000s of man made nuclear daughter products?

                  And all the radiation released and being released worldwide is heating up the oceans, even boiling the ocean east of Fukushima.


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              • VanneV anne

                Then you have all these active volcanoes near Fukushim Daiichi:

                Name Elevation
                (m) Elevation
                (ft) Coordinates
                Last eruption
                Mount Adatara
                1718 5635 37.62°N 140.28°E
                1990
                Mount Asama
                2544 8340 36.24°N 138.31°E
                2009
                Mount Azuma
                1705 5594 37.73°N 140.25°E
                1977
                Mount Bandai
                1819 5968 37.60°N 140.08°E
                1888
                Mount Kusatsu-Shirane
                2160 7123 36.63°N 138.55°E
                1989
                Mount Nasu
                1917 6283 37.12°N 139.97°E
                1963
                Mount Niigatayake
                2400 7874 36.92°N 138.03°E
                1998
                Mount Nikkō-Shirane
                2578 8458 36.8°N 139.4°E
                1890
                Mount Tate
                2621 8599 36.57°N 137.60°E
                1858
                Mount Zaō
                1841 6040 38.15°N 140.45°E
                1940


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            • maybesomeday

              Philip Up North: The number of people you pointed out observing construction of the Ice Wall appears to be sufficient for installation of a Street Sign here in USA.


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  • mairs mairs

    I keep waiting for the point when they have to abandon the site.


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  • Nick

    Cold shutdown.

    Anyone get chills down your spine when you realized this was a bunch of BS?

    The amount of obfuscation has been astronomical since 3/11/11.

    It's what we don't know that is scary. Think back to the photo-shopped Unit #4 photos.

    I bet the site is already FUBAR.

    All work done to date is just busy work, hoping that a miracle solution will crystalize out of the chaos.

    An ice wall sounds like science fiction, nice in concept, but impossible to pull off for the 1,000s of years necessary.

    So go shopping. Be happy. Ignore your nose-bleeds. Blame your children for their lethargy and fatigue.

    Time, way past time, for the planet to grapple with the COLD HARD TRUTH.

    Maybe the powers that be are planning a nice little war to take our minds off of Fukushima?


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    • We Not They Finally

      Someone can re-check — I think it would be with Hatrick Penry who got government documents through FOIA — but I believe that "FUBAR" is one of the first things that even the Americans said.

      And Nick, your last comment about "a nice little war to take our minds off"? That's actually a looming prospect and frightening. They'd call it "diversion," but we'd be calling it mass death, just at a slightly quickened pace.


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    • nedlifromvermont

      ah, … yep. Hi to you Nick man. Glad you're here to vent with us … those ol' "five stages of grief" thingy. I think the first is anger?

      Anyway, five steps are less than twelve … … so hammer away!!!

      Come get your mad-on.

      Disaster porn? Methinks not. Truth porn? Somewhat closer …

      peace!


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    • HoTaters HoTaters

      The new law is the real cold shutdown.


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  • pattersonp

    But thats the eventual end anyways so I think your flight to Mars will need to be booked soon.

    if this is unfixable then all they will be able to do is abandon the plant anyways? They will and cannot fix this… there will always be direct discharge and radioisotopes all over Japan which will leach out the various ways to sea/food/air/groundwater…

    I think the groundwater is alot more serious than 400 +/- tons a days. They could easily STOP their injection of salt-water. Its obviously not helping and only endlessly contaminates more and more every second…

    It's probably in the 10000s from day 1 and they just tacked off a 0 to make it seem less. Typical TEPCO.

    I studied groundwater/freshwater lakes for about 10 years, mainy pollutant loading an algae blooms from fertilizers, farmland, etc. There is no way to stop groundwater, period.


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    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Liked this pattersonp comment: "There is no way to stop groundwater, period."

      But I'd like to give that one a try, however.

      Extended Impermeable Wall Project:
      Cost plus $1 billion for my trouble. I will personally go to Japan and build a damn Impermeable Wall for them, the right way, completely around Reactors1-4, into the bedrock. I will begin with the uphill part, inland from the Reactor Buildings1-4, like should have happened in the first place. I will have two teams pounding in the interlocking sheet steel pilings, one team on either end. We will work 24/7 until the job is done. Then I will fill the steel pipes with concrete. It won't take more than a damn year to finish, either. Japan must supply all the required permits, plus my cut of the money, up front. (I'm old, so radiation holds no terror for me). My costs are to be paid monthly as the job progresses. Fuc* off, TEPCO. Get the hell out of the way.

      I believe I might like to hire a bunch of ENEnewsers for this job. Top money plus hazard pay. You'all seem like good people to me. ;)


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      • VanneV anne

        There is no bedrock. There is only an alluvial river millions of years old and landfill and an aquifer.


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        • Bones Bones

          I'm down to be hired on this team! Many specialties are needed, in fact, almost all the creativity and types of production humanity can muster. A geologist will have a key to the puzzle, while a nuclear physicist can concern himself with safety and the nuclear fuel, hydrologists, mechanical engineers, etc. are all needed. Sad there are wars during moments like this. Are humans that dumb? I bet all can learn, but many are complete morons. Look at the idiocy and impotence of authority to do anything but hurt and maim and kill more civilians in anyway possible apparently as evidence.


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          • vicky13 vicky13

            Thinking geology, Bones and Philip,,,

            Look what I found,,,

            http://www.fukushima-blog.com/article-the-geology-of-fukushima-88575278.html

            >>
            At a time when everyone is wondering where the coriums of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant may be, it is interesting to know the nature of the terrain where they could possibly be hiding. Although all documents used to write this article are readily available, most are in Japanese and this explains that to date knowledge of the geology of Fukushima is fragmented. Based on the geological survey that was conducted prior to building the plant, as well as on results of seismic testing and recent research related to drilling, this article will attempt to give an updated picture of the nature of the substratum of the nuclear plant, which may help to predict possible developments in the currently unfolding disaster.

            General geological environment

            The Fukushima Daiichi Power Station is located on the east coast of Honshu island, in northeastern Japan, on a Cenozoic sedimentary ground, i.e. belonging to the current geological era (from 65.5 million years ago to the present). It is separated from the Abukuma granite plateau by the Futuba fault.


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        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          Anne,
          There is a Less Permeable layer of Mudrock at a depth of about 100' under the FDNPP.
          Landfill of gravel was used only to level the site for construction,
          after the cliff was cut down.
          The Less Permeable rock layer is considered the bottom of the surface aquifer.
          It is into this Less Permeable rock layer that the pilings were driven, in the leg of the Impermeable Wall that has already been constructed.

          Welcome aboard, Bones. Blessed are the Peacemakers.


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        • nedlifromvermont

          @Anne: Check your geology textbook. There is some parent material, even if it is unconsolidated. Eventually you'll hit basalt, Japan is a volcanic island chain. Far enough down even unconsolidated rubble will behave like a stable bedrock, and much of the groundwater flow could be diverted. This is not true for south Florida, however, where the top several thousand feet of sediments are sand and ancient coral formations.

          The situation coming to Turkey Point NPP will make the fuel removal at Fukushima look trivial. Approach to site will be by barge, only.

          oh well. It's only conjecture …

          Like a Loss of Cooling Accident … … until it happens …

          peace!


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          • nedlifromvermont

            @Anne: Please to disregard my previous comment … it is clear you did check your geology book …

            So Japan's not a volcanic archipelago? A piece of eastern Asian plate broken off, with a lot of volcanoes to boot …

            I should have known better … but, hey mudrock is rock, right? Sort of?? No not really? Then I agree with you and your colleagues: the site was a poor choice for a six unit nuclear energy park.

            Think GE had anything to do with the site selection? (rather the selection of a site with politicians able to be bribed?) Think maybe just?

            Brilliant machines my ass!


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            • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

              The land was cheap…only consideration utilized.


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              • nedlifromvermont

                Hey Anne and PUN … I was researching Japanese Island Arc geology and geomorphology … there is abundant granite (felsic) bedrock from igneous flow underlying parts of the Tohoku Coast … but the good news is that in 200 million years, Japan will be reunited with the Eurasian mainland, the North American plate closing onto this new super-continent, and the Pacific Ocean will be gone!!

                Woo-hoo … the Ocean we killed was going to be killed anyway by plate tectonics!!!

                Take that 'newswers: We only sped up the inevitable death of Pacific Ocean. Nothing like flipping over your car, landing on four wheels and driving away.

                I was almost starting to feel a little guilty.

                Saved by the geology textbook again!

                One super-mafic allochton to go with my glowing Sake.

                peace.


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                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Nice but I really don't think they have the plate tectonics movements or whys down yet..but there is always hope.. :)


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                  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

                    Anne, I agree that the corium lava tubes must be considered, as the sarcophagus over Units1-4 is planned.

                    As corium melted mudrock under Units1-3, the sand in the mudrock was turned into glass. Since mudrock is porous, while glass is not, it can be expected that the downward passage of corium consolidated the mudrock material into corium lava tubes. Corium lava tubes are water-filled channels lined with glass, stones, and nuclear debris. It can be expected that ongoing fission raised the temperature of the corium to approximately 5,000 C. The corium would have descended quickly, through the fill and mudrock, straight downward. I do not believe that much branching would have occurred, which would spread the corium out, and would have quickly halted the downward progress of the molten corium mass. Nor would groundwater have halted the corium's downward progress, as only the outside surface would have crusted, insulating the molten mass within. Sideways drilling under the reactors, or use of directed fracking drilling techniques, would be able to quickly locate the corium lava tubes, and follow them down to the corium mass.

                    No effective planning for the "decommissioning" of Reactors1,2,&3 can occur until the location and configuration of the corium is known. If corium lava tubes exist under Reactors1,2,&3, they must be filled with concrete in order to support the Reactor Buildings and the Sarcophagus above, against the earthquakes certain to come in the…


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                    • weeman

                      First class posts, we now know that it will not be possible to completely steam the flow of contaminated water and this is very worrying if corium has left building, our only chance is if it is still in building and we can isolate at sometime.
                      I am living on a prayer, as I can not believe this is the end, it is called denial or if you prefer hope?


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            • HoTaters HoTaters

              Speaking of the siting of the plant — it was incredibly poorly sited. Someone made the comment here the other day the land was very cheap. That was supposed to have been the primary reason Tepco sited the plant where it did.


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Yes, if one goes down far enough, there is likely bedrock. But you are correct, Nedli, that could be thousands of feet below the surface.


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  • Nick

    netc.com aligning with current radar (2:45 pm est).


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  • own_quality

    When they do have to abandon the plant it's bomb it into the sea time. That will be the only possible choice. If Japan refuses, then the downwind US will do it on her own without the rest of the world's blessing. Daini too. There will be no discussion… maybe a warning to Japan to evacuate Tokyo. It will happen fast, before any of the SFPs can burn into our atmosphere. I'm guessing a few thousand bunker-busting ground penetrating bombs right about on the line where the ice wall is planned. That should blast all of the buildings, SFPs, and maybe even the missing cores into the ocean.

    I give this scenario about a 90% chance of happening in the next year or so.


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    • End of the Road

      Not a good idea. I hope TPTB have more sense than that.


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    • own_quality

      It's the best choice under the prospect of an imminent worst case scenario of a massive open air burn of many thousand of fuel assemblies. Nothing could be worse then the SFPs burning into the atmosphere. That would truly be the end of life in the Northern Hemisphere and eventually the entire planet.

      Small pieces of cores and spent fuel scattered in the ocean will eliminate the prospect of further criticalities. Probably the final step after that would be to bury the rubble on the sea floor in countless millions of tons of concrete over many years.

      It will also be the beginning of the end for nuclear fission power plants and that will be a good thing.


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      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        The open air burn of the assemblies has already occurred.. give to take in a few in Unit 4 (maybe)..
        Some tremendous bombing.. underground would have to occur to scatter the radioactive into the ocean..INSTANTLY..sealing the fate of the Pacific.

        We've had 2 1/2 years of criticalities.. burying it under the seafloor would only cause continuous leaching of the contaminated materials into the sea..as it could not be contained from the bottom..and earthquake/volcanic activity would sort it in due time.

        They are polluting the Pacific for all time..
        All should fall to their knees…


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      • Bones Bones

        So to you the best choice is to blow this SKY HIGH and release EVERYTHING into the entire ecosystem? Japan will have areas of radiation dosages nearing death in near term. It's horrible now, but to suggest spreading everything everywhere as ANY REASONABLE type of solution is pure intellectual LAZINESS.


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        • own_quality

          Too bad for Japan. It's them or all of us. This is world war and Tepco's mess threatens the entire world. It's time to leave Japan, because we are way past any solution that can save them anyway.


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          • We Not They Finally

            I think Bones said that it's not JUST Japan, just that Japan is more "short-term." Like Chernobyl wasn't just Belarus. It went all around the world. And this is exponentially, frightening worse.

            If it were just a matter of "sacrifice Japan" (though for God's sake, evacuate first!), one thing. But it's not.


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      • hbjon hbjon

        Anything you do that exposes the partially contained corium is a bad thing to do. If corium has developed a thick crust and begins to have criticalities, the solution would be to drop small charges filled with boron into the corium. This action will stop the intense gamma and neutron flux temporarily. It may be impossible to do that.


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  • Nick

    IAEA praises Fukushima decommissioning approach (http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS-IAEA-praises-Fukushima-decommissioning-approach-0512134.html)

    How do you decommission a situation that is getting worse and worse?

    "Team leader Juan Carlos Lentijo, the IAEA's director of nuclear fuel cycle and waste technology, said, "Japan has established a good foundation to improve its strategy and to allocate the necessary resources to conduct the safe decommissioning of Fukushima Daiichi." However, he stresed, "The situation remains very complex, and there will continue to be very challenging issues that must be resolved to ensure the plant's long-term stability."

    Challenging issues……. uh oh.


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  • Again fails to mention THE WIGNER EFFECT…discomposition of solids due to neutron bombardment.


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    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      The 'Wigner Effect' will be the final cause of the opening to atmosphere of every NPP built today, and any new NPP built in the future. There is no material that is 'Wigner Effect' resistant:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner_effect

      Even ignoring Fukushima (G-d help us) every NPP facility will eventually fail to atmosphere, and there isn't anything anyone can do about it.

      Pay heed: .gov will tell us that every NPP is built to 'safety codes', and will last for many years beyond it's service life. What no one ever took into consideration is how much damage is caused to the structure itself through constant neutron bombardment. They will all fail. Every NPP, every SPF pool, every dry cask, every sarcophagus – everything having anything to do with nuclear weapon/power generation will self-destruct.


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      • nedlifromvermont

        @Time Is Short: this comment is sobering, to say the least.

        … any chance of murdering Mr. Wigner to void his "effect?"

        peace …


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      • So how can neutrons, which are emitted by all nuclear reactors be so harmless to humans?

        According to this article, these neutrons are very powerful, able to change the atomic structure of matter; like concrete and steel.

        Human bodies are like whipped cream compared to that stuff.


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      • zogerke zogerke

        could you explain wigner effect? wikipedia says that healing stops the effect (annealing) and i would think that npps generate heat! just not educated about this science- can you explain?


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        • zogerke zogerke

          heating not healing. wishful thinking typo


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        • VanneV anne

          Annealing of nuclear reactor pressure vessels
          “The neutron embrittlement that occurs in the beltline of reactor pressure vessels (RPV) can be managed by various techniques such as fuel management, but only thermal annealing can reverse the effects and result in a restoration of RPV beltline material toughness. The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission has recently revised the Code of Federal Regulations to include the use of thermal annealing of RPV for recovery of material toughness. The Annealing Rule, 10 CFR Part 50.66, has an associated Regulatory Guide 1.162 that describes the format and content of a thermal anneal report that must be submitted to the NRC prior to performing an anneal. This paper will describe the thermal annealing process including regulatory requirements in 10 CFR Part 50.66, techniques for predicting and measuring the toughness recovery, and NDE requirements. Although 14 Russian-designed RPVs have been annealed, there are sufficient differences between the Russian and US designs to question the ease of thermal annealing without producing any unwanted dimensional changes in the RPV and associated piping….”
          http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002954939700335X


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          • nedlifromvermont

            Wow! Good Answer! Worth an A+. Our world hangs by the results of equations and modelling performed by pro-nuker scientists to show reactor pressure vessel embrittlement can be reversed by clever thermal management of highly radioactive fuel elements on the fly …

            Excellent!


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  • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

    What about the Navajo who have been decimated from Uranium Mining
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXpCr66Nw5I

    The nuclear holocaust is worldwide, not just in Fukushima.

    All nuke related activities must cease immediately, although I think it is too late and all life on planet earth will be gone in a couple hundred years.


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    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      News, You surely have researched and understand what is going on, and yes, it will get much worse in the near future. What we are all now seeing are simply delay tactics with no solutions almost 3 years in. The beauty of Nuclear Technology is that it is a very slow killer and the Nuclear Industry knows it, so the more they can delay the bad news the more Nuclear contracts they can write world wide all while promoting more Nuclear death machines.

      It is a very powerful controlled Zeitgeist Matrix that we all live in and it is not pretty the way that they have trapped countless countries and populations under their spells. You see the US scrambling too solve their own health care nightmare that is coming soon from Fukushima and they are controlling the money flow and really are not solving any of the fast approaching problems.

      Assets (humans) and money need to be controlled under the guise that they are here to help you and/or make you feel safer while they bend you over.

      We humans now have a huge mess and it will get much worse in the near future. There is no solution except for the banning of all Nuclear Power/Technology worldwide immediately and on this planet called Earth through an International tribune/law.

      If we do not do this quickly, we certainly will eventually "Exterminate" this entire planet, we now call Earth. :(


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    • Time Is Short Time Is Short

      Lots of populations have been decimated by uranium mining. Never stopped the mining, or construction of new sites.

      A new site in the Dakotas opening up. Good for the economy. Until everything dies.


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    • We Not They Finally

      newsblackout, we don't have 100 years. Terrified to see what one tenth of that will bring.


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  • mesa777

    I keep reading this new day after day and it seems that nothing has changed at this place! We need a list of things that have been completed and a list of things not! I mean I guess the worse that can happen is the cores exploding, let's get it over with here or speed up this containement process NOW! THIS IS GETTING DEPRESSING!! CORIUM COTAINEMENT = FULL PLANT CONTAINMENT!!!


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  • razzz razzz

    If your soul is on the wrong path, I don't know how you can come to logical solutions to Daiichi.

    Kenny is still on the fence and his nuts are beginning to hurt even more now. If he would make the leap to one side or the other his comments may not be so conflicted. Either constant radiation flowing into the Pacific is a bad thing or it is not. How can a little bit be okay?

    Barret can't reconcile nuclear industry goals with what is happening at Daiichi (does not compute). He wants to bleed all the melted cores into the environment, slow enough that no one will notice…We will notice.

    The chemical seaside wall seems to function as a dam. I think the intention was to prevent seawater tidal movements from interacting with the melts and buildings. The fact it (the dam) also backups freshwater, helps cool and keep the melts in check. Overflows are tolerated for this reason.

    Chernobyl sits on dry ground, Daiichi has a water problem but water both helps and interferes. Certain death to work on exposed dry melts, they need to be submerge in water for shielding. You can't have both, dry and underwater at the same time unless encased in concrete so the concrete acts as the main heat-sink and shielding.

    Caisson (engineering) is possible. Ice wall is a modified caisson of sorts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caisson_%28engineering%29 No one wants to spend the money on ifs. They would rather fence it off and let nature take its course, insanity.


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  • babbo dorian babbo dorian

    I see all that info released to the press is …. sorry but…. pure bs, no more.
    There are no real news…. what about the stage of taking out one by one the bars?
    The levels of radiation everywhere?… the lights seen close to the buildings, the reason for radiation spicks?… the reason for animal mass deaths?…. etc etc etc etc
    And here we …. just following their manipulative game of news/words/contradictions…
    They are really clever in how to control even a site like this….
    Sorry to say so…. anyway…. also I guess my comments are erased periodically…. bye…
    Was very good while lasted….
    Anyway…. very good people here… anne, hotr, hotaters, nick, alpha1, obewanspeaks, and so many others…
    Love


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    • We Not They Finally

      Don't give up. Hang in there. Your voice is needed. And no, I don't think that "they" are manipulating this site. At least not yet….

      Me, I learn more from the posters than the articles anyway. Very knowledgable people. Hang in there.


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    • Sparky

      BabboD, Stay with us! We need you, and we all need each other. "They" would like nothing more than to see us despondent, beaten down or silenced. We–including you Babbo Dorian–are the Energy that fuels Enenews. This place and all that gather here, whether posters or "lurkers", have never been more relevant. The multiplier effect here is awesome and we can and do create positive change. I echo WNTF's msg.: "Don't give up. Hang in there. Your voice is needed." Stay.


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  • Time Is Short Time Is Short

    Here is possible proof that the Earth is being groomed for occupation by an alien race that thrives in a radioactive environment:

    'Mystery 'alien-like creature' seen in Bristol harbour'

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/weirdnewsvideo/10497811/Mystery-alien-like-creature-seen-in-Bristol-harbour.html

    Either that, or the Sellafield pollution has already mutated some living species.

    (More likely the radioactivity driving up rare sea creatures from the ocean floor, just like all the rest, but I'm not discounting anything at this point – no matter how horrible)

    Not even 3 years into a 704 million year extinction event. We are going to see some strange things, friends, very strange things.


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    • We Not They Finally

      The ELE isn't 704 million years. 704 million years may just be how long it takes Earth to RECOVER from the ELE.

      Do check out David Icke though. It took me a long time to warm up to him. It just seems so clear that no HUMAN entity would be killing off their own planet. He goes into astral energies and their control of selected bloodlines, like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, the Queen.

      He's a very grounded guy, and very humane. It just seems like SOMETHING like that might be going on. Unfortunately, he doesn't say how to stop it, except for a profound belief in humanity being awakened in the Light.

      Now he thinks that there is "a radiation agenda" — that negative astral species flourish in high radioactivity. I don't know that. But yes, something massive that is beyond bizarre might be happening. It makes no sense that even bad humans would do this to themselves.


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      • nedlifromvermont

        @WNTF: Sadly, it makes a whole lot more sense than you realize. Think about it. An oxycontin (lab heroin) addict will sell his baby to get high some more (rarely, I admit) so imagine the greed addiction being ten or a hundred times as strong …

        Bad people will willingly hurt themselves to serve the need …

        It's called human nature. Unpredictable Homo sapiens sapiens …

        Take a clue from Einstein and "Don't underestimate human stupidity!"

        peace to the twins …


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      • crystalwind crystalwind

        Well, there are those bacteria that thrive in radioactive water, so why not other creatures? What to speak of naturally occurring, there have by now been many years of genetic experiments and who knows what results they've tossed into the trash or out the window..and what it grew up to be.

        But I have another idea about "why" bad humans would do this to themselves": ages ago the Good Guys had the planet, and guys from a "lower" system challenged them for it and lost. The losers keep trying and it doesn't matter to them if the planet is made uninhabitable–they don't really want it for anything, they just want to "win". That's the nature of envy–if you can't have something for yourself, keep everyone else from having it.

        Whichever scenario, though, I'm at peace with leaving the mortal shell behind. What torques me is the attitudes and atrocities. Just tell me how to get these guys out of power.


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        • nedlifromvermont

          lovely crytalwind!!

          I've experienced this situation with others in my own life … but have never heard it so succinctly stated.

          As to your latter question: We're working on that, daily, on this site. First we discredit the opposition.

          Then we employ the Ghandi strategy: First they ignore you, (we are past this stage) then they ridicule you (this is where we are now with smears like "disaster porn") then they fight you (coming soon like with the secrecy laws in Japan) and then we win!!! But we still have to clean up all their nuke shit, so the victory will be Pyrrhic … but it will be a victory worth achieving at any cost … and then we can move onto Monsanto and global warming …

          As someone once said (Churchill?) "We have not yet begun to fight!!"

          Glad you're with us!

          peace to you!


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  • moonshellblue moonshellblue

    I thought they had dismissed the Ice Wall plan? I know I read that somewhere and I'm assuming it was here on Enenews. Obviously Lake Barrett is still thinking along those lines. Things that make ya go hmm.


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  • We Not They Finally

    Isn't it amazing? Lake Barrett, formerly of the NRC, in a position to STOP the nuclear madness, but never did. Now HE'S skeptical that anything will work? So he knows that it's a lost cause. And who's to blame? People like him.

    If people like him actually CARE that the planet survives at all, let them show how much they care by living right at the NPP. Let him LIVE there. He helped create this. Now let him LIVE there.

    These psychopathic people can never even figure out the humans basics of remorse. (No. Not a phony bow and an "apology." Actual remorse.)


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    • unincredulous unincredulous

      NRC never really cared. IAEA ignoring all earthly attention. Tepco trivializing emergency preparedness concerns oftentimes. U.S. under sedation. UN ubiquitous nonsense. WHO weak helpless obstructionists. FDA finalizing death admirably. Government Going on vainly enumerating regulatory numbers meaninglessly enjoying nit-picking temperament.


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  • Shaker1

    I'm with you, PUN, but I'd do it just for room and board. I'm not only too old to worry about the radiation, but too old to worry about the monetary compensation or what I'd materially leave to posterity. I'd be content with the idea that my children might have the opportunity to be healthy enough to make their own way well through the world.

    But, realisticly, I agree with pattersonp about the amount of water. Remember, what is published is, at best, only estimates. I would like to see the parameters they use for the calculations of that volume. Just for kicks, 400 tons is approximately a 23.5ft cube, about the volume of a small American house. (The cube root of 2000/8.2*231/1728*400. 1 Ton, divided by average weight of water per gallon, times the number of cubic inches to a gallon, divided by the number of cubic inches in a Ft3, times 400.) Look at pictures of the site, try to get some concept of its size, and ask yourself the question if this is all that flows through. Again, just for kicks, think of it this way. An acre is 43560 ft2. That amount of water is then like covering 1 acre in 3.3 ft. of water. (43560/23.536*23.536)/23.536. (Someone might check the math.) What are they recovering now? What do they process? How many acres is the site? The dynamics of this along with tidal flow is pretty amazing.


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  • Shaker1

    But I definitely agree that something must be done. I've said before that they should have been crawling like ants over that site since the beginning. Better late than never, I guess.


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    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Welcome aboard, Shaker1. Agreed that the TEP.gov response has been woefully inadequate thus far. Orders of magnitude less than what the situation demanded. Now they are paying the price, as pipes burst, tanks leak, and decommissioning projects are suspended. We are very close to the point at which the ONLY activity at Fuku will be dealing with contaminated water leaks.


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    W I T N E S S . A N D . S U F F E R

    The concept of nuclear power, suicide from the beginning.

    Ultimate train-wreck, waiting to happen.

    And now, the world is forced to witness and suffer the consequences.

    A few men started all this .. citizens never wanted it.


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    • We Not They Finally

      Einstein still said it best: "Splitting the atom changed everything except man's way of thinking, as we drift towards unparalleled catastrophe."

      Some intersting trivia picked up on a YouTube: Apparently about half of the original scientists in on the A-bomb testing just prior to Hiroshima, thought that it might be result in a worldwide chain reaction. But THEY DID IT ANYWAY.


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      • crystalwind crystalwind

        I'm old enough to remember my parents discussing the tests and all of us being astonished how someone could blithely let loose an unknown energy, when it was acknowledged that the new energy might not be controllable, and might even destroy the planet in one big Swoosh. "We don't know what it's going to do–oh, well, let's find out!"

        What I also find amazing though is how the stupid ones keep getting hold of the power. Why not the smart ones ever?


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  • Lady M

    Heehee, PUN at 3:51, the plan might need a little tweaking — but I admire your spirit!


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  • Grampybone Grampybone

    "And the big problem is we are here in seawater atmosphere, so it’s charged in salt, and this is leading to very fast corrosion, it leads to problem with deterioration of concrete,"

    The salt problem here is a very serious issue. The initial spent fuel pool reactions could have very easily been caused by the introduction of salt water into the fuel arrays. TEPCO won't tell anyone exactly what it did to attempt saving the spent fuel.


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  • unincredulous unincredulous

    Salt water is soooo corrosive. Pouring saltwater on the plant is like pouring water on a wicked witch —

    Marty McVeigh “It’s Getting Worse” lyrics

    The air is smelling rude, there’s poison in our food
    It’s in the water that we drink, I’m in a sullen mood

    (refrain): It’s getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. It’s getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse

    The layoffs they go on, afflicting everyone
    What good are all the tax cuts, your career dried up and gone?
    (refrain)
    For many life is hell, outside the homeless dwell.
    Their high rates of mortality, some folks say just as well.
    (refrain)
    The government’s absurd, the people are not heard
    Political contributors, they get the final word.
    (refrain)
    The rich folks, they cheat, the tax system they beat.
    They treat welfare recipients like hunks of rancid meat.
    (refrain)
    The courts get tough on crime, ten million doing time.
    We toss them into prison, without reason – without rhyme.
    (refrain)
    The Middle East embroiled, attacked them for their oil.
    They’re calling for a Holy War, because we’re on their soil.
    (refrain)
    They tell me shut my mouth, don’t like it then move out;
    I’m free to speak my mind, that’s what this country is all about!


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  • ruppert

    I'll play devil's advocate and say that at the time when these weapons were being developed before and after the cold war there was great fear that the nazis were going to learn atomic theory which could have been a big game changer during WW2. Einstein basically told Roosevelt that and they used that as justification and were off to the races with the Manhattan Project.

    Many of the scientists who were part of the Manhattan project protested against using the bomb against the Japanese as depending who you talk to the war was winding down. Again that is still being debated to this day.

    None of them thought about future consequences and hyptnotized themselves into believing that they would have a sane strategy with the waste.

    Fast forward ahead they and their future militaries realized that having that much much power and greed gave us what we have today.

    Once the power/greed genie was out of the bottle there was no going back. Fear was the instigator at the very beginning and then the lust for power and greed cemented it all to what we have today

    It's all blood under the bridge but historically I don't believe they knew just what they created until after the trinity test. I'm not giving them a pass but just looking at the history that got us where we are today.

    I know….that and $2.00 will get you on the subway.


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    • Socrates

      Ruppert,

      I agree that the idea of nuclear was to stop Hitler but could we have used nukes in Europe? It was racist and unnecessary to use nukes on Japan. The nuclear Cowboys wanted to fire a shot across the bow of the Soviets. In effect, that shot day ricocheted and hit the grandchildren of the creators of the nuclear programs because that's who we are as a species. The first caveman who invented the stone ax used on his neighbor, The same with the sword. Stirrups allowed archers to ride and fire arrows from bows while riding horses, while gun powder allowed firing projectiles through cannons and muskets.

      Nuclear changed everything except man, and that is the real problem.


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  • Sol Man

    Hubris made this possible. It could have been different and yet here we are. This has been a job for the greatest engineering companies in the world from the beginning.

    Here is an idea, FWIW. Dig two Grand Canals one on each side of the affected area in the effort to draw off the water that flows through. Go far back into the land to capture as much as possible, do what can be done to take the hydrologic pressure off or, at least minimized. Also, inject whatever sand/mud stabilizers that are available, sodium silicate, portland, and other as appropriate
    to stabilize. Channel the water elsewhere before it gets to the primary areas, then stabilize. That's all I've can come up with for the moment. Thanks all.


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    • unincredulous unincredulous

      That sounds like a perfectly good solution. I would totally think you hit the nail on the head, if it were not that they built the damned thing below sea level; purposefully, it seems, to thwart an easy fix.

      I say we invent a time machine and find the engineers that did this and kill their great grandparents.


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Japan is toast and they do not have much time left, whether by Mother Nature's hand or by our man's hands.. :( The ultimate human sacrifice may have to be to sink the entire Island into the ocean… :(
    https://www.google.com/#q=Cayce+says+japan+sinking+into+ocean

    They are probably in the process of lock and loading right now…as they build more of these death traps or Nuclear Rattle Traps all over the world.

    Maybe we can call it a new form of geo engineering on meth? :)


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes, we have many weapons and lots of stuff for continued/non stop/ongoing shopping.. :(


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  • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

    "But the soil around Fukushima is laden with radioactive caesium. "

    Is that another way of saying, "the corium are sitting in the groundwater"?


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  • Socrates

    If we had an all out nuclear war, the even military guys would understand that everybody had lost. The atoms for peace guys just cannot get it through their thick skulls that they have unleashed an insoluble problem for all humanity for all eternity. They believes in their delusional pea-brains that it could never come to this.

    Nuclear Cowboys are Strangeloves. They knew there was a risk but it was small they said. I personally argued with Westinghouse engineers in 1979 who said that the risks slight 99.9% safe they said. I said are you willing to take that chance considering the potentially infinite consequences, and the answer was, "Yes."

    So now the grim consequences forever and these same people cannot face their responsibility. Nuclear was a false religion. Now we face hell.


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Gambling with/on the "Extinction of Planet Earth" is now the primary game in town and they are taking odds/bets right now.. :(

    A very sick world..says he!


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  • name999 name999

    wow…fascinating reading! Hitler had plenty of company internationally, certainly in the US with a most famous connection with Henry Ford…lots of history that elucidates our predicament now. The reliance on secrecy supported by legal agreements that lead to jail and worse for people with ethics, whistleblowers, victims. The repeated demonstration that a component of the most wealthy and dangerous of humanity will bring everyone down with them as they over reach, as they can't control themelves or what they have created.

    We have to surrender to this and trust life in some bigger way…but surrendering means not fearing the truth…that is likely the only good that may come from awareness…ok, someone make me laugh…


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  • Nick

    Time for some wealthy people to foot the bill for a massive PR ant-nuke campaign.

    Bill Gates? Not until he sees the error of his ways in supporting small nukes to power the world's servers.

    Bloomberg? He'd be perfect since he hates large sugar drinks, and tobacco.

    Zuckerberg and his Facebook would be awesome. Just think what we could do with more FaceBook alarmists?

    Anyone care to take my dare?

    Only massive, unprecedented infowars will win this battle for public awareness.

    The lies are old. Time for us all to wake-up and kick nuclear everything into the dust-bin of history…since it's already doomed us all


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