Japan Expert: New radioactive leaks from Fukushima Reactor No. 2 may be underway; Concern about ‘vertical streams’ — Tepco: Impossible to completely prevent it from spreading (VIDEO)

Published: July 10th, 2013 at 12:10 pm ET


NHK WORLD, July 10, 2013: […] [Groundwater expert Atsunao Marui of the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology] says TEPCO must take a multi-layered approach to stop what may be new leaks of contaminated groundwater from the building that houses the No.2 nuclear reactor. He suggests that the utility install steel plates around the reactor in addition to reinforcing embankments on the coastal side of the plant, and fill the gaps with clay or other water-resistant materials. Marui also says TEPCO must grasp the overall flow of the groundwater, including vertical streams. He says the firm should dig more observation wells on the plant compound and monitor groundwater springing forth under the sea. […]

AP: […] Watchdog chairman Shunichi Tanaka said he thinks that the seawater contamination has been happening since the accident […] TEPCO says that it has taken steps to prevent seawater contamination in areas near the plant, but that it is impossible to completely prevent the contamination from spreading into wider areas. […] Atsunao Marui, underground water expert at the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology, said there is a possibility of new leaks from reactor buildings. […]

NHK WORLD: Japan’s Nuclear Regulation Authority […] said contaminated water is very likely leaking into the sea. […] They also say radioactive substances were recently found in high densities in waters of the plant’s port. They say they strongly suspect that highly contaminated water is leaking into soil and then into the sea. […]

Watch NHK’s broadcast here

Published: July 10th, 2013 at 12:10 pm ET


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153 comments to Japan Expert: New radioactive leaks from Fukushima Reactor No. 2 may be underway; Concern about ‘vertical streams’ — Tepco: Impossible to completely prevent it from spreading (VIDEO)

  • weeman

    Just as I suspected reactor 2, makes sense in my opinion containment has been compromised for sure on reactor 2, what to do, let us take it to basic mechanics you can contain contaminated water or you can pump out of ground and store, is there any other alternative within our present technology apart from doing nothing and learn to living or dying with it, so we are in agreement that we must attempt resolution.
    In my humble opinion both methods should be employed and implicated at the soonest possible moment about two years ago.
    They are beginning to loose complete control and if present circumstances continue it will be only a matter of time before they have to abandon the site and then were will we be, mark these words, things will spiral out of control in quick order, so be prepared to flea.

    • We Not They Finally

      Yee, you are correct that containment has been compromised, but that probably happened with DAYS after the earthquake/tsunami! And although they don't outright say it in a complete sentence, they have as good as admitted that they CANNOT store it. It's upwards to 400 tons of groundwater rushing into that plant uncontrollably PER DAY! And they are well-known to estimate LOW.

      And it looks like they have ALREADY "lost complete control" — they are just drib-drabbing that news out to the rest of us.

      But also YES, if there is ANYTHING that can be done, it should be. These people need to swallow their pride like a snake swallowing a whole mammal at once, and plead for international help. Problem with that one, though, is that the main international bodies, IAEA and WHO and UNSCEAR, all seem to be on the wrong side!!

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Too little being done, the island is being sacrificed.

    • We Not They Finally

      Wow, that "island" (Japan) may look like a relatively tiny dot on the globe, but them today, us tomorrow. Though I know that you would like to project better — I would too!

  • dosdos dosdos

    Daiichi was built on a landfill and the water goes every which way in the porous ground beneath the reactors. Water has been seeping all over since 3/11, and contamination has been going from this aquatic labyrinth directly into the Pacific for over two years.

    TEPCO has been getting away with this for so long because their test wells run very deep, below the landfill layer to relatively clean water strata. But now even that is contaminated, from the radiation coming down from the mountainsides from runoff and erosion that has been taking place from water coming from the reactors' cooling systems.

    It's only getting worse as time goes by, while TEPCO does its best to avoid the issue's expense.

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      You may have misread the construction details of Fukushima Diiachi, dosdos. Please read about the construction details and site geology here:
      The plant was actually built on mudrock, a kind of sandstone, which was dug out of a cliff at the edge of the ocean. A small amount of gravel fill was added afterward to level the sight for construction. No way was Fukushima Diiachi built on a "landfill", as we understand the term.

      • We Not They Finally

        I'm not a scientist, so correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't "sandstone" a very porous rock, so it becomes "six of one, half a dozen of the other"? Sandstone is hardly granite.

      • dosdos dosdos

        I have looked at the specs and I looked up the alterations to the specs TEPCO made to raise the reactor base 14 feet higher above sea level to where they considered safe from tsunamis. The bed rock is not that high at the shoreline where Daiichi sits. If the 6 reactors at Daiichi sitting on bedrock, why is Unit #4 visibly sinking? It was landfill added to the site to raise the level of the reactors, and it is why the ground water flows through the plant so copiously.

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          There is no bedrock, at least to my understanding. If you do a search under "bedrock" as a search term, or use it in a browser search along with Enenews.com, you'll likely be able to follow the discussion when we all had a long debate about this. dosdos, maybe you remember. You were here and participating in the discussion. i think it took place in the Fall of 2011.

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            But w/o seeing what the reports say (and design, as-built plans), geologic studies on the site, it's hard to say for sure ….

            Does anyone have a link to a geologic study for the site, or plans, as-built drawings?

  • SwimsWithGators

    The gators would say that all you humans can do at this point is to build the largest pond you can and begin filtering out your pollution as excess water runs over the sides into the ocean.

    As a human, I say they need to fill in the spaces the corium occupies and make the corium come to the surface where it can be dealt with once future technology is developed.

    As it stands the corium is spreading and that needs to be stopped somehow, someway. They need to keep their shit to themselves.

    • many moons

      All nuclear waste seems uncontainable….even in containers it's only a matter of time that it won't be there anymore. The industry keeps creating a materials it has no ability to control. That's been obvious from the beginning.

      Through circumstances the material will leave it's temporary storage and pollute everything it comes in contact with forever.

      • SwimsWithGators

        Yes, many moons, you are correct. They only thing we can do is make an attempt at controlling what we have created, and of course, stop making any more.

        First tho, control what is now spreading. There may finally be a world consensus that, by gawd, we do have a problem.

        If Japan is to be saved, (gator just asked me if any gators lived there) it is the world which must act, because Japanese are incapable.

        Gator just asked why should gators care about Japan if no gators swim there? I replied: Because if we don't save Japan, we can't save your place in the sun. Gator laughed and roared, "We are many millions of years old, radiation is nothing new to us. We look forward to many easy happy meals, sucker".

        • We Not They Finally

          You see, that's the thing, SwimWithGators. The thing about "millions of years old and radiation is nothing new to us"? That HORRENDOUSLY RADIOACTIVE black fungus increasing exponentially over there? It's THRIVES on radiation! Makes the fungus INCREASE! Us humans cannot function like that. But maybe indeed at this rate, fungus (a way lower form of life than us) might yet take over the world. Pretty scary….

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      I know, just LEVITATE it. Mind over matter.

      Sorry, sarc.

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Unit 2 Corium has been proven to have left the Containment Vessel:
    Watch TEPCO's endoscope exploration of Containment2:
    The atmosphere contains wispy steam, and is relatively clear.
    If Corium were present, the atmosphere would be roiling steam, with little visability.
    The water is calm and below boiling temperature.
    If Corium were present, the water would be roiling and boiling.
    "Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has found that the cooling water…is only 60 centimeters deep, far lower than previously thought."
    Why is the water less than 2' deep? Because there is a hole in the bottom of Containment 2 left by the Corium on its way out of the building. Now, the water TEPCO dumps into Containment 2 just cools the corium splatter left on the walls, and flows into the groundwater, and on past TEPCO's test wells on its way into the Pacific Ocean.
    Is Corium2 still in the mudrock under Reactor2? Probably not. If there were 94 tons of melted nuclear fuel still in the groundwater immediately below Unit 2, there would be constant steam venting from the ground, and everyone would know where Corium 2 was. No. Corium 2 is now long gone.

    • We Not They Finally

      PhilipUpNorth, you are always interesting to read because you look at the science. But what does "Corium 2 is now long gone" actually MEAN? That it is migrated further down into the earth, or in another direction? Obviously "gone" cannot mean that it somehow disappeared! Just that THEY cannot locate it?

      One also has to wonder, if that HUGE HUGE HUGE blob of radioactive devil-dung (= corium from reactor 2) somehow migrated towards THE OCEAN, might that account for the sudden astronomically high readings of strontium and cesium?

      • Trawling4Trolls

        If they were getting 73 Sieverts inside the Containment Vessel, not the Reactor Vessel, then that means the fuel boiled, popped pressure valves in the RV and leaked into the CV. In vapor form. The rest of the fuel doubtless flowed down thru the control rod holes after the rod seals and control rods melted.

        Atomfritz gave an example of an empty RV without a core that had residual levels of 73 Sieverts somewhere in Europe.

        The water looks to have a viscous quality to it.

      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        "What does "Corium 2 is now long gone" actually MEAN?"
        It may have taken a week for Corium1,2,&3 to eat through the concrete and steel base of the Containment Vessels, through the foundation, and out of Reactor Buildings1,2,&3. In the ground, Coriums1,2,&3 quickly sank through fill into the mudrock.
        At Fukushima, the mudrock forms layers, angling downwards towards the Ocean. Corium1,2,&3 molten nuclear lava would have followed these layers as it melted down through mudrock. As time passed, Corium1,2,&3 would have traveled under the turbine buildings, under the seawall, and under the harbor, leaving Corium Lava Tubes in their wake. PattieB reported a worker saying the corium was 2km deep by the summer of 2012. My feeling is that corium is under the seabed, with steam rising up through earthquake fisures in the mudrock to contaminate the Pacific Ocean. My feeling is that the corium is still very hot. How many times has TEPCO reported groundwater or seawater radiation levels are "much higher than expected"? My recommendation is that TEPCO fill the structures with grout, and stop groundwater from flowing past the ruins.
        What questions remain?
        What is the total energy contained in 219 tons of molten nuclear lava?
        How long can molten nuclear lava eat through mudrock before exhausting itself?
        Would molten nuclear lava stay in a blob or spread out and cool?
        Oh, and one more: Where is…

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          Oh, and one more question:

          Where is Corium1,2,&3 right now?

        • Trawling4Trolls

          "Would molten nuclear lava stay in a blob or spread out and cool?"

          This is a question you must answer for yourself, Philip from the North.

          If as a blob it will concentrate its heating effect and will overpower shear-like sliding into a vertical burnhole.

          If a as flattened pancake it will have a lessened tendency to slide as even it will be subject to friction.


          • Trawling4Trolls

            I don't have an explanation for that graphic, but you do realize the sheer volume of water you're talking about there?

            Anywhere from 3.5 to 6 degrees C anomaly. It is impossible from a physics standpoint for 3 reactor cores + how many cores in #4 SFP? to raise that volume of water by that much.

            • the article starts with this question, and then answers it by looking at the data in following weeks..

              Since the heating does not continue, the question was answered… the coriums are NOT heating the ocean..

              But for those interested, the rest of the article is interesting to read… 🙂

    • We Not They Finally

      Yes, T4T, the key word is probably "death"! Even IF they could even locate the corium from the melt-throughs, apparently even robots' circuits get fried from the radioactivity.

      They so need to evacuate northern Japan. They have put the whole world in the line of fire, but the LEAST they should do now is to evacuate northern Japan.

    • Kassandra


      I realize that you don't ordinarily post on the webcam discussion forum but I wonder whether I could persuade you to look at my comment there and to take the time to look at the screen shots posted today by webcam watchers





      The level of emissions and the bright glowing burners (or whatever they are)visible in the screen captures have grown to alarming levels.

      We are afraid that rising tritium levels mean significant fission activity, especially given webcam data suggest large volumes of emissions with high densities of particulates.

      We need people to offer their opinions on what is happening.

      • Trawling4Trolls

        I don't attach much significance to the glows on this photobucket page, they look to be standard fog effects or reflections from light-colored building surfaces. The picture labeled arcings IS interesting, anybody got any real high resolution shots of those?http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/Wotcha1/media/Image1_zpsbca9ae26.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

        It is easy with fog to see more than is there due to changing contrast levels, and their activity level is high at Fukushima, vehicles moving around, spotlights.

        A picture from yesterday (?) of daytime clouds or shining spots I interpreted to be possible internal reflections in the webcam. Hard to check that sort of thing this remotely.

        My suspicion on tritium levels is that TEPCO has rounded the corner on their storage problem and are literally dumping contaminated water and then reporting its elevated levels! aka, they don't care.

        If that's the case, then with that attitude I don't put it past them in 'their little Oriental minds', lol, to be actively toying with the webcam offerings. Really.

        'little minds' in the sense that culturally because they did QC better they smugly tell themselves that Everything they do is better, all of that while displaying the most Cynical Corrupted Culture going.

        They do have a disturbing culture, very racist. Boneheadedly racist, like ana-humanism, without humanism. Absurd. Curiosities.

        • I appreciate your feedback on the webcams but NOT the racist comments.

          Read this report and consider the role played by the US in pushing nuclear on Japan, both historically and in the present period:


          Japan has plenty of corruption, but as an American I find my society is slipping into fascism – oligarchic and authoritarian rule by the largest corporations and government – with endemic cronyism and corruption.

          All cultures have strengths and weaknesses, often remarked upon most fully by the people who constitute them.

          The ultimate struggle of humanity is within our conscience, not between nations and cultures.

          • Trawling4Trolls

            That's nice you do not appreciate my comments on Japan's self-presentings.

            majia, Japan is SOOOO far beyond having nuclear pushed upon them by the U.S. that it's ridiculous to describe their current leadership choices as reluctant or as victims. Suspicious, to me, that someone would try to run that on another.

            Japan is quite the lesson material for the U.S.: lost decades, official corruption, cronyism, Bernanke's QE "solution".

            The "ultimate" struggle of humanity appears to be accessing the Courage to remain In the Moment, as in an Immediate Struggle. Catch that drift?

            So here's a little fuel for your fire. Japan strikes me as a culture that epitomizes the Fascist Circlejerk, mutually supporting each other in a descending spiral of increasingly irrelevant responses to the needs of the moment, in effect merely masturbating each other while oblivious to the widening eyesockets of the rest of the world.
            That should burn a bit. 🙂

            • Kassandra

              If you looked at the report you will see that the US is indeed pushing nuclear, although I agree that Abe is only too happy to oblige.

              Abe's wife seems to have better sense.

              I like the description of Facist Circlejerk, but it doesn't simply apply to Japan. Down we go:

              Has the Earth’s sixth mass extinction already arrived?

              • Trawling4Trolls

                "I like the description of Facist Circlejerk, but it doesn't simply apply to Japan."

                That's a rather amusing dismissal of the Naked Emperor's presence. Modern Japan can only be described as corporatism, and you would have me believe it's not essentially fascistic?

                You do understand why the Bernanke idolizes the Japanese financial system, don't you?
                He admires their defense of corruption and stubborn insistence on it being private.

                Echoes of that in people defending the racism of the Japanese. It's to remain private, the regarding of the Japanese. Just more outrageous BS.

            • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

              T4T, Japan's citizens have done a far better job of protesting than the US and other countries, except maybe India. The pot calling the kettle black is always a mistake.

              Japan's citizens were out there demonstrating again facing armed police when the recent shipments of MOX arrived from France. They have much more courage than we do. We may only see glimpses of their protests, but they are there. I hope when you are dying of radiation poisoning that you will be able to protest physically as much.

              It is Henry Kissinger and his think tank and all those he represents that are forcing Japan to restart its nuclear reactors. The US has never loosened its grip on Japan since 1945.

              As far as I can see there is no culture left anywhere. It has been highjacked by the mass media in shades of 1984. Do you think glorification of sports and movie idols is so wonderful? Do you think jailing those who are whistleblowers in North America are so wonderful?

              The only way to get rid of nuclear is to stop blaming the victims. Disruption of the people who are trying to make a difference will only bring defeat.

              • irhologram

                Anne. +1000

              • Trawling4Trolls

                Yeah, Japan's a real role model for protesting, like the SDF has protested at, like, all?, and their Prime Minister or whoever denying atrocities occurred during WWII.

                They have painted themselves into a racist corner and are sizing it down further.

                Majia is Japanese is he/she? And he/she measures his/her success amongst humans by the degree to which he/she convinces others not to criticize Japanese culture?

                You are departing the moment, again, with such group think.

                Their conformist culture is literally killing them, and with mutual affirmation, at that. Who would have thought that possible.

              • Trawling4Trolls

                "The only way to get rid of nuclear is to stop blaming the victims."

                The victims are not being blamed by me.

                Nuclear power in Japan still enjoys a lot of support by 'careerists'. They know who they are and I do, too.


            • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

              I forgot to mention all the wonderful demonstrators in Germany and the wonderful voters in France.

              • Trawling4Trolls

                The Germans have been doing undeniably good work in removing nukes from their midst. A very good thing.

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Majia, I'm with you on this one. So sad. I grew up believing I lived in the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave. And if one lived a good and morally sound life, one would be rewarded with at least some modicum of living in peace.

  • J.

    This article explains that huge banking cartels are controlling commodities including uranium.


    This is highly relevant to the disaster in Japan and the global continuation of nuclear power plants.

  • moonshellblue moonshellblue

    Too little too late and sounds like fissioning is ongoing thus it's as if we are starting at day one? And let's face it there is no way to stop the water not at the massive levels produced at Fuku ask anyone that has to contend with Fracking and the dire consequences to the environment due to polluted water.What a species.

  • We Not They Finally

    Oh, THAT species? Husband and I are so at the point of "count us out"! We think that if spaceships finally arrive and the aliens seem half-way benevolent, better to take our chances with them than with this godawful mess. But then we think that billions of people with grandchildren can't think that way. So we all have to do the best we can long as we can.

  • Only 2.333 years to start admitting the obvious, that radiated water is leaking into the ocean. That link Philip posted about low coolant water levels in #2 was posted March 2012 over a year ago. The plant itself is next to the ocean and there is underground run off from the nearby mountains. How can TEPCO deny radiation is escaping into the Pacific? Next thing they'll be saying Masao Yoshida's cancer had nothing to do with his radiation exposure trying to contain the triple melt down disaster…… Oh, never mind.

  • In a twinkle, everything changes.

    In a flash, something is gone.

    In a moment, what was here is now there.

    perhaps this is just from one or more of the workers taking a radioactive tinkle? Surprised they did not mention that possibility.

  • Really, this is the only way to block the radioactive effluents into the sea, and their complete collection containers …


  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    I think we all know by now that this disaster will never ever be over for humanity for as long as humanity remains on Planet Earth.

    This disaster is a game changer for our species and the future of this planet.

    I weep for no human and weep only for all those other creatures/animals/plants that had no influence in this horrific Nuclear Ecological Disaster event.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Could this Nuclear Technology have been a very old ancient technology from long long ago and then removed and buried once they understood the true dangers this technology meant for all biological life on Planet Earth?

    Could this be real or is it just a dream and/or some ones creative imagination?

    Many books were written and many books were destroyed as we dig up our true history and past…

  • yogda yogda


    IMO, We will end up like Mars if don't get our shit together in time.

  • razzz razzz

    I haven't subscribed to the melted cores being on their way to China.

    If you look at pictures of the Daiichi plant site, you will see huge slopes (banks) cut into the land with the units 1-4 sitting at the bottom of the slopes.

    They cut into earth to lower the ground level to find more stable ground for foundations and to lessen the pumping costs of ocean water for cooling. Even 'mud rock' is a poor description but it is certainly not granite but seafloor sediment compressed over the eons that the units were built on. Any leveling was done with 'artificial rock' aka concrete before actual construction began.

    With the water tables disturbed during construction, I don't see how the melted cores would get very far having unintended(?) natural cooling of groundwater/seawater.

    It is containment that matters and there is none for units 1-3 wherever the cores are.

    I'm thinking Unit 3 vaporized a lot of its core, Unit 1 some of its core and Unit 2's core lurks on the base-mat and causes most of the localized radioactive pollution feeding into the Pacific Ocean, with help from units 1&3.

    No proof where the cores are (ask TEPCO) but until proved or disproved it is all a guessing game.

    I always wonder where the flying fuel pieces ejected far away came from, Unit 3's core or Unit 3's SFP or both?

    Biggest difference than Chernobyl, Daiichi continues spilling radioactive waste into an ocean and probably will for centuries.

    • Trawling4Trolls

      Chernobyl's Elephant Foot probably traveled as far as it did because it encountered no cooling material at all, empty air spaces.
      Fuku was sea-watered.

      "Corium lava tubes" would seem to be ideal conduits for that water to 'accompany' it downward. Vertically. Sliding coriums is an entertaining concept, admittedly.

      • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

        T4T. 😉
        Glad to see you are coming around.

        • Trawling4Trolls

          Quite the opposite of what you mean, Philip.

          I was implying the Fuku coriums probably didn't travel as far horizontally as Chernoby's did because of water being present. I was surprised when I learned how far Chernobyl's traveled.

          Fuku never had steam coming up out of the ground before the quake, now it does?

          You postulated in the past about coriums "sliding" out to sea.
          That, like so many things in this Daiichi incident, would have to be proved to me.

          But just to humor you, the coriums may be able to 'hover' on a cushion of self-generated water steam and slide out to sea like a hovercraft.
          Glaciers ride meltwater so who knows.


          Iori Mochizuki has one of the best points. How credible is TEPCO when they opt not to report on strontium levels?

          As I and others have said they are probably dumping or pumping straight into boreholes fracking style or known groundwater flow streams.

  • Wooster

    As a casual observer, perhaps someone can enlighten me with what the implications of the worst case scenario at Fukishima would be?

    If the Diachi plant was washed into the sea by another tsunami tomorrow, what would that mean? Would the radiation affect the entire ocean and make it a dead zone, or would it be diluted to neutralise the threat?

    How long would the radiation from some of the loger lived elements that are being released take to disappear completely? Is there any danger to the west coast of America if such a scenario took place?

  • razzz razzz

    I think you are living in the worst case scenario already.

    Not like a mushroom cloud in air but a never ending radioactive fed plume into the ocean that takes a long time to disperse (dilute or thin out) to all corners of the globe's oceans.

    More like the localized sea life will be affected and food chain. Further and far away, slightly higher risk for cancers when consuming seafood or swimming in the ocean water. Cancers won't be detectable back to Daiichi.

    Most dangerous nuclides are heavy elements and won't travel far, like plutonium. Other than what vaporized and is already airborne during the blasts. Without further nuclear pollution from this day forward, maybe 300 to 600 years and the short lived radionuclides disappear completely.

    Not that anyone doesn't care but there is nothing anyone can do about it.

    More nuclear disasters and you can start reading the bible about how an angel pours something into the oceans turning them red and dead.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Unverified highly radioactive sediment collected from 8.6m inside of reactor2 PCV again, “30 mSv/h of γ&β dose”
    July 10 2013


  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes..another seal has been broken.

    These are "mini suns" that do not belong on the earth and these nuclear cores are not and/or should not be considered natural. We do not live on the sun and the energy being released by these current nuclear meltdowns is not of this earth as there is no natural process on this earth that mimics a nuclear core/reactor meltdown.

    Have any of us seen a nuclear core operating inside a forest or in the ocean that is part of nature? Nope.. nada.. nothing. Won't find it and it does not exist on this planet. Its "Not" like the sun and there is no protection for any biological life that is exposed to this unnatural form of radiation being released.

    What comes from the sun are photons in the form of light beams that have been filtered by layers of atmosphere before they even hit the earth. We have built in protections from the sun's radiation after 4 billion years but there is no protection from these recent meltdowns.

    Mankind has no clue what to expect from this recent industrial accident and/or the ramifications for future generations now being effected. What we do know is that there is no safe dose of this manmade radiation and it is a verifiable mutagenic and we see increased cancers after any level of exposure.

    We may have just exterminated the Earth since we have no idea what to do with this triple meltdown and the cleanup technology does not even exist to end this nightmare our scientists just created.


    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      "no natural process on this earth that mimics a nuclear core/reactor meltdown."
      There actually have been natural nuclear reactors, obewanspeaks.
      But your point is well taken. I like "mini suns". 🙂
      Perhaps we have caused our own ELE.
      Wouldn't that suck?
      Perhaps the lost 219 tons of corium are by now at a depth where they will no longer be cause for much concern, leaving human kind to deal with the splatter left behind. Which in and of itself seems much beyond our capacity.
      I picture a human nuclear "angel", pouring out his vile vial onto the Earth. Except that rather taking a tenth, per the Bible, he takes half the people, as cancer now does.

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        It would be nice to think that the coriums..well below the surface..will no longer effect humanity.

        The fact that is continuing in depth..or even pancaking or even..dispersing at any depth..provides for complete involvement in the area..geologically..with concerns towards contamination..and it's presence being a geological disruptive catalyst.

        • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

          PS..Geology actually being the elemental life of the planet.
          Disruptive activity of the elemental balance?

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Time will tell the story…..

  • irhologram

    Please explain to me how it is that spectragraphic/or infrared imaging that can tell us the elements in Saturn's rings and analyze contents of batholiths and methane/natural gas/et al pockets used in oil exploration cannot identify where wildly aberrant nuke cores are. We really don't think "they" know exactly where the cores are? Just asking here…. But this point continues to bother me in discussions. I'm seriously asking. Please explain to me the science of why it is not possible to detect the position of corium (especially since…please give me the reference…there was a measurement in km of depth in the Spring of 2012, was there not?). Are we assuming "they" are ignorant of the position, when its only we who are in the dark?

    • or-well

      Hi irhologram.
      That question bothers me too.
      Having no expertise, all I can think of is that there is too much structure giving off interfering signatures between the coriums and any overhead detection system to get good data.

      Robotics don't seem up to the task of doing it from within the buildings.

      I used to think "they" knew, "they" being somebody, somewhere.
      Now, I wonder.

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      "One of the men who worked on the tracking of the coriums in the ground… before he quit in frustration over the mess, said publicly that #3's was down over 4km into the earth as of April 2012." PattieB in "comments" section here:
      I could never get a reference for this "public" statement PattieB mentioned. So this is the best I can offer.

      Irhologram, I understand your frustration.
      Surely, with our vast spying resources, and underground mapping technologies,
      we should at least know where the corium from Reactors1,2,&3 is located by this time.
      I agree that somebody, somewhere, knows exactly where the corium is.
      But they are not telling us.

      I will make this prediction:
      At some point, TEPCO will begin to fill Buildings1,2,&3 with concrete.
      With all the evidence permanently covered up with concrete, TEPCO will never have to answer the question: "Where is Corium1,2,&3?"

  • AntonButler

    Unbelievable, now ten(s) thousand tons of soil underneath
    the reactors and turbine buildings is so contaminated and will
    act a a massive sponge leaking radioactivity into the pacific for the next thousands of years.
    Why has nobody been prosecuted for these crimes.
    When the people of the nuclear industry have no longer immunity for their accidents there will be less accidents and less nuclear power plants.
    It is unacceptable to say it Fukushima meltdowns were caused by a natural catastrophy, many normal uneducated persons all over this planet said a quake could damage the nuclear plant, and cause radiation release.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      And criminal liability and stripping of pensions and health care for the government officials and representatives who continue to support the nuclear industry and nuclear weapons.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      I just argued with someone in my nuclear engineering class. He said Fukushima's disaster was caused by a tsunami, and I contered that the plant failed from the earthquake before the tsunami. They didn't erase my comments, but my comments no longer showing up on the page that shows latest comments.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        I was very polite. I didn't direct my comments at any person. All I did was post information in an impersonal manner. I didn't refer to wikipedia or youtube. I didn't start a new thread so at least the title would be read.

        I'm finding that these pronukers today are many of them anything but young, and work for the nuclear industry as teachers and engineers. Some of them are so impolite and aggressive and arrogant, I hate to think that they are the very ones in control of and forcing us to submit to such a dangerous technology.

        They are fighting selfishly for their salaries. But fight for your life while killing off billions, and you will lose it. Give you life for others and you will gain the peace that passes all understanding.

      • irhologram

        But, Anne, you and I have discussed this before…and it's not a small point, because it infers culpability. Pictures BEFORE the tsunami, which occurred 40 minutes after the EQ show NO DAMAGE, but AFTER the tsunami, all was flattened. I asked you then, and I ask you now? Do we believe our EYES or do we believe subsequent data on charts? Please tell me how you account for the pictures showing NO damage as lolling observers watched the tsunami roll in? I'm very serious and not being argumentative. How DO we account for the 40 minute discrepancy? How Do we account for initial data/charts that showed three average 5 seismic EQs INLAND, but nothing else? I'm not trying to generate controversy here…just discussion. I am having a harder and harder time these days not believing my eyes.

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          irhologram, I think you are looking at different photos than I am and you are ignoring eyewitness accounts. I will post more shortly.

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            irhologram, have you seen this youtube? The GE employees at Fukushima Daiichi took off as fast they could go after the earthquake:

            Fukushima 2, Nuclear Whistleblowers, Health and Safety


            Also see:

            Eyewitness Accounts; Fukushima Pipes Burst, Reactors Damaged By Quake
            July 3rd, 2011

            "Jake Adelstein and David McNeill authored a ground breaking piece that debunks TEPCO’s claim that the damage at Fukushima was all due to the tsunami or that it could not have been expected. What is most shocking about the article is the first hand accounts of staff working at the plant when the quake hit."

            • Trawling4Trolls

              Now, now, anne, holo feels that his right to comment anonymously also includes the ability to override onsite inspectors, GE personnel on site, and quite FREAKING simply, any form of evidence that has the 'effrontery' to challenge his degree of Entitledness.


              • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                No one was talking about a conspiracy in my class. It was strictly between the earthquake and the tsunami. And it was only one other person who said it was the tsunami, and when I posted something, he criticized me for posting anonymously. Of course, everyone else in the class whether pro or anti nuke is allowed to start new threads and to be impolite except me. I was criticized for just posting information (which is considered in this class as spam or using the discussion thread as a bulletin board). They just want opinion, which is of course unfounded and easily dismissed. I don't even express my opinions. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It is the nuclear industry who doesn't want anyone confused by the facts. I haven't even posted the terrible readings of cesium and plutonium, etc., which are discovered at Fukushima every day.

                There are so few people posting comments or reading the discussions (maybe 15 or 20) you really have to wonder who is still enrolled in the class. According to the professor, people have dropped because of the discussions, but that is hard to believe because no one is reading the discussions. There may show more people reading a particular thread, but that may be people going into the thread multiple times.

                • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

                  According to my professor, it was a disservice to evacuate anyone at Fukushima, because radiation is like a vaccination. Exposing yourself to radiation will keep you from suffering from any effects of radiation. So Fukushima is practically nothing. You'll be okay if you just smile.

                  • AntonButler

                    Yes I have found a much abuse from the pro nuclear persons. Many really bad swear words come from them.
                    Also the argumentation of these persons is weak,
                    just statements and no facts to back them up.
                    The Simon Fraser University, Vancouver did a presentation, on Fukushima (fact or fiction)and the 4 professors had made many wrong statements.
                    After correcting them with proper evidence I was blocked, and my corrections were removed.
                    One professor was talking about polonium 239, well he meant plutonium . For 5 minutes he did not know if he was talking about plutonium or polonium . These professors were getting lost in the periodic table of elements,so people should know this. So good, it is clear highly qualified persons do not understand science when they mix it up with economics and politics, and their salary issues.
                    Science can be be mixed up with experiment results and maths.

                  • AntonButler

                    Maybe you need a better professor.
                    Radiation is not a vaccination,
                    In fact it could be viewed as the opposite, as it overloads the immune system, thus rendering previous vaccinations ineffective.

            • irhologram

              https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+tunami+rolls+in+Japan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i%7C60%3Bd%7CqBeRji_p9BDjYM%3A. Please examine pix as the Tsunami rolls in, without making assumptions as to EQ or tsunami. Just for a moment, review shots where you can see both the tsunami wave and the land mass. Does it not astound you that 40 minutes after a 9 EQ, cars are traveling the seaside road? Does it not amaze you that there is no structural damage to buildings, no fires, no cracked roadways, and people are driving down the seaway like its a normal day? Is it that we just assume the pix with ruins are from the EQ? Because WHERE are any disturbed features as the tsunami rolls in? If you have them, I'd sincerely like to see them, because all I'm aiming for…ever…is to know what happened (which is usually different from what I'm "told" happened). The trouble with your testimony vid as conclusive proof…is that it's testimony…words. My mama told me to believe nothing I hear and only half of what I see. The pictures of the tsunami rolling into a BIz as Usual area just don't conjure up damage that would be caused by a 9 EQ 150 miles away (or ANY damage, for that matter). I really WANT to be shown pix of damage AS the tsunami rolls in 40 minutes after the quake…That version would sure be more comfortable.

        • Trawling4Trolls

          "How Do we account for initial data/charts that showed three average 5 seismic EQs INLAND, but nothing else?"


          And how do we account for irholo's refusal to acknowledge a link I provided about a month ago about the onsite inspectors that fled Daiichi before the tsunami due to facility damage??

          • irhologram

            T4 t Missed the link. Please repost.

            • Trawling4Trolls

              I will post it again. Note that you are on point. If you are found in several days reiterating that 'there was no damage anywhere from a 9 EQ quake the tsunami did the dirty work' your username with "internally consistent persona identity" will be in violation of the Air Force's criteria.


              irholo, are you one of "a virtual army of 500 personas, who can be centrally controlled by a small group of people.

              According to the bid put out, personas must be “…replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally, and geographically consistent.”

              “Individual applications will enable an operator to exercise a number of different online persons from the same workstation and without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries." ?

              Sophisticated adversaries doing "sophisticated research", as you put it?


            • Trawling4Trolls

              I forgot, anyone who finds you out is by default a "disinformation agent".

              Which is, notably, exactly what you are.

              A corporate troll from the nuke industry, or, of course, a modern Mayak case worker that presents him/herself as unstable with inexplicable links to jumpinjackflash.com and hydrogen sulfide and of course your promotion of Jim Stone theories, again. And again.
              Or was it .. the Jesuits on ex-SKF. Same guy?

          • irhologram

            T4t Anne provided details at 3:51 on what were officially described as foreshocks.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        Long before the disaster, the warning about the Fukushima Daiichi power plant had been issued. But to no avail.
        Special report: Fukushima long ranked most hazardous plant
        “TOKYO | Tue Jul 26, 2011 (Reuters) – Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant ranked as one of the most dangerous in the world for radiation exposure years before it was destroyed by the meltdowns and explosions that followed the March 11 earthquake.
        “For five years to 2008, the Fukushima plant was rated the most hazardous nuclear facility in Japan for worker exposure to radiation and one of the five worst nuclear plants in the world on that basis. The next rankings, compiled as a three-year average, are due this year.
        “Reuters uncovered these rankings, privately tracked by Fukushima's operator Tokyo Electric Power, in a review of documents and presentations made at nuclear safety conferences over the past seven years.
        “In the United States — Japan's early model in nuclear power — Fukushima's lagging safety record would have prompted more intensive inspections by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. It would have also invited scrutiny from the U.S. Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, an independent nuclear safety organization established by the U.S. power industry after the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, experts say.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        I'm being listed again in the page that posts new comments.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne


      Well, about my class. One of the T.A.s, an engineer at Westinghouse, one of the designers of the AP1000, just announced that he is going for 2 weeks on vacation or business to Japan. Because he loves the hormesis theory so much, I hope he tries it out at the Fukushima Daiichi Hilton.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Long before the melt throughs, detonations, and explosions, and the greatest level of radioactivity released into the environment in a single accident in the history of the world, TEPCO operation of Fukushima was scandalous (in the words of Reuter).
      Fumbling Toward Fukushima: Japanese Nuclear Plant Operator Plagued by Scandal
      “For years, Tepco, the operator of the Fukushima power plant, has been widely criticized for deadly accidents and improper inspections. The Fukushima disaster is the tragic nadir in a history of poor management at the company's nuclear facilities.
      “It must have been a difficult day for Tsunehisa Katsumata. In 2003, the then-president of the Tokyo Electric Power Company, or Tepco, gave a speech addressing what, until then, had been the biggest scandal in the history of Japan's largest energy utility company. In 29 incidents the year before, nuclear power plant maintenance documents had been falsified and Tepco had been forced to take 17 nuclear reactors temporarily offline as a result. Tepco CEO Hiroshi Araki and four other top executives resigned.
      “Over time, the nuclear division appeared to spin out of control, according to Katsumata's assessment. ‘The engineers were so confident in their knowledge of nuclear power that they came to hold the erroneous belief that they would not have to report problems to the national government as long as safety was maintained,’ he said.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        . In the end, ‘they went as far as to delete factual data and falsify inspection and repair records.’
        “The 2004 manuscript is only one testament to the nuclear power giant's troubled approach to crisis management. Both before and after the speech, an impressive list of incidents continued to grow, including deadly accidents.
        • “During the 1980s and 1990s, in several instances Tepco falsified data in voluntary inspections, including the number of cracks in the reactor pressure vessels.
        • “In 1991 and 1992, the safety vessel of Reactor 1 at the Fukushima plant, which had gone online in 1971, was tested for leaks. According to Tepco, workers pumped air into the safety vessel in order to reduce the rate of leaks.
        • “In 2000, a reactor at the Fukushima nuclear plant had to be shut down because of a hole in a fuel rod. Similar incidents had already occurred in 1997 and 1994 in which radiation had been released.
        • “In 2002, cracks in water pipes were discovered at the nuclear power plant.
        • “In 2002, an engineer with the US firm General Electric, which manufactured three of the six reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, also raised the alarm bell. Inspeactions had not been carried out at a total of 13 reactors at Tepco power plants. He showed the Japanese nuclear regulatory authority 29 instances of falsified data and cover-ups, a development that led to the resignations in 2002 of top Tepco executives.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        • “In 2006, radioactive steam leaked from a pipe at the Fukushima plant.
        • “The company was also accused the same year of falsifying data about coolant water temperatures in 1985 and 1988. The data had then been used during mandatory inspections of the plant in 2005. In 2007, further falsified reactor data from Tepco emerged.
        • “In 2007, at least eight people died when the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa nuclear power plant was badly damaged in an earthquake. Pipes burst, fire broke out and radioactive water leaked from a spent fuel pool. Tepco had to decontaminate the affected building. The nuclear power plant remained closed for one year so earthquake safety — which had allegedly already been good enough — could be improved. Later it was determined that Tepco had missed 117 inspections at the site.
        • “In March 2009, another fire broke out at the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant, resulting in one employee injury.
        • “On March 2, 2011, just days before the start of the current earthquake catastrophe, Japan's nuclear regulators lobbed accusations of mass negligence against Tepco. It alleged that Tepco had failed to inspect 33 pieces of equipment at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant, one of the sites of the current catastrophe, including central cooling system elements in the six reactors, and spent fuel pools that hadn't been inspected according to regulations. The company has since admitted to having made the errors.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        • “At the same time, Tepco also reported to the nuclear regulatory authority that it had not only failed to do the 33 inspections at the Fukushima-Daiichi plant, but also 19 further inspections at the nearby Fukushima-Daini plant.
        • “Some experts had already been warning since the 1970s that the Mark 1 reactor type, produced by US manufacturer General Electric and also called the "Fukushima design," was not constructed to survive a combination of an earthquake and tsunami. Only days after the earthquake, two engineers who helped build the plant confirmed at a press conference that serious construction errors had been made. Many backup systems for emergencies had not been built at the plant….”

  • razzz razzz

    The Great Quake toppled a transmission tower not far from Daiichi, pictures of Unit 1 venting steam before the tsunami arrives, worker's eyewitness accounts of damaged pipes venting inside the units before the tsunami arrives. Pictures of workers trying to find valves to turn manually with earthquake destruction all around them higher than the tsunami water intrusion. Firetrucks couldn't make a direct run to Daiichi because of earthquake damage to the road leading into the plant site.

    I've never read an account of where the backup generator kicked on and powered the cooling and pickup pumps before the tsunami arrived except for the one working generator that had to be rigged and shared between Units 5&6. There was some backup battery power but only enough to keep gauges and sensors working. There was certainly no incoming power once the transmission tower toppled, it took out the onsite relay station.

    How or were the cores kept cool before the tsunami arrived? Kept cool with good luck?

    Wonder how much water sloshed out of the SFPs during the Great Quake?

    • Sickputer

      Good points razzz…and it wouldn't have mattered if all the EDGs had survived because the huge ground shifting of the 9.0 earthquake crushed the water and electrical pipes between the reactor buildings and their adjacent turbine buildings.

      In a classic case of architectural blunders, the two dependent buildings for each reactor unit were constructed on separate earthquake-resistent floating foundations. Insanity…they needed to be on a single floating foundation to even have a fighting chance to urvive a large earthquake. The tsunami was superfluous in the grand scheme of architectural arrogance. This design flaw will lead to future disasters at other nuclear plants.

      • razzz razzz

        A floating slab has to be done with a monolithic pouring of concrete whereas the concrete slab can setup and harden without any weak points caused by different concrete pours by days or hours old that would cure at different rates. In other other words a continuous and uninterrupted pouring of concrete of the same mix design until completed. It is actually quite common in construction, used on top of wetlands or beach sands and dredge fills.

        Wiki says the Daiichi site was originally 35 meters above sea level and was lowered to 25 meters above sea level to find 'bedrock' and to reduce seawater cooling pumping costs.

        What was it? The entire island of Japan move 8' horizontally during the Great Quake and the Fukushima coastline sank 2' before the tsunami even arrived. How you engineer for that is a tough one.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      TY, razzz, Sickputer, and No Prevarication

    • Jebus Jebus

      I really have to question those with the intent to disseminate conspiratorial information pertaining to the great quake of 2011.
      Sure, there are not as many pictures of the earthquake damage from Japan, but that just shows you how devastating the tsunami was for a nation that has had many earthquakes historically and is the most prepared nation against them. I can find many pictures of the earthquake damage amongst the many pictures of the tsunami with only a few clicks of the mouse. I'm sure any pictures that I post will be challenged by those who wish to carry on a runaround of the facts. The bullshit that the event was anything more or less than a natural earth event is nothing more than a distraction, as always, from the truth of the articles that they embellish their crazy ideas in. This event was bad enough, without agendas being put forth as segue's to an ulterior motive.
      Here are some interspersed with tsunami pics. Use your brain.


      And one stark reality pic.


      Go ahead, show all of us what your intentions are…

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        I agree with you Jebus. The nuclear industry wants to say that another meltdown won't occur anywhere. But that is definitely erroneous. And, in my opinion, people who are arrogant enough to cover up the truth, are especially NOT equipped to be running nuclear power plants.

        The director of continuing educ. for the nuclear engineering class just wrote us that those who want to teach something to the class are not there to learn and that the T.A.s don't have time to track down every article.

        Actually nuclear engineering and professors are paid a lot of money to spend their time learning and doing research. They are complaning like a bunch of 3 year olds because they don't have the education or the science to back up their claims. They are the ones who don't want to learn or know the truth. The Blue Light said today that they do know the truth. They are simply lying. These people should not be designing and managing nuclear power plants. OF course, we shouldn't have nuclear power plants at all. But it seems those who are in the industry are unable to face the truth.

        In an article I posted earlier, it said that the engineers at Fukushima Daiichi were so arrogant that they thought they had the right to falsify safety records. Such a blind culture is now killing us all off.

        • Jebus Jebus

          The ones who have the real data about this ongoing disaster know full well that we are in a "world of hurt" right now and there is nothing anyone can do about it. This has to be at the very least mitigated very soon of the threat to our ecosystem is valid.

          Modest Debut of Atlas May Foreshadow Age of ‘Robo Sapiens’
          The agency stressed that it was not interested in designing either offensive or defensive weapons systems. Rather, officials said, they want to build robots that can help the military provide assistance in disaster situations.

          Dr. Pratt said that the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant inspired the idea to hold a contest focused on creating robots that could operate in environments hostile to humans.
          Even before the Fukushima disaster, Marvin Minsky, a pioneer in artificial intelligence research, castigated the nuclear power agency for being unprepared for disasters.
          “Three Mile Island really needed telepresence,” he wrote in IEEE Spectrum in 2010. “I am appalled by the nuclear industry’s inability to deal with the unexpected. We all saw the absurd inflexibility of present-day technology in handling the damage and making repairs to that reactor.”
          The system will go down if they don't get a handle on this threat to the foundation of life on this planet.
          What they don't know is, if it's already too late…

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          anne, this issue of your professors wanting to stop your informative posts is outrageous for this reason; Educators are responsible for disseminating truth, not censoring their students. This is surely one of the very roots of the nuclear problem and the many other foibles of mankind.



          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            TY, Code Shutdown. Of course, you are right. But also, being realistic, if someone were taking the class for credit, you have the choice to take a class and pay for it, and not take it and save your money.

            This class is being offered in a open format for free. And I think Westinghouse paid for this one course and thought they could avoid the open format. But these free classes are open to everyone and are to allow different ideas, because I think that they are also studying the relationships between people as a sociological study.

            I took two other energy classes. And we were allowed to discuss ideas freely without someone monitoring and trying to block different ideas.

            The ironic thing is I am doing so much research for this class and am learning a great deal that I never knew before. And there are very many different threads where I have said nothing at all.

            I teach in the public schools. And free discussion between students promotes learning as much or more than anything else. So learning isn't really the issue at all. It is just an excuse for censorship.

            And whether we keep or discontinue nuclear energy is such an important topic, there needs to be free discussion. There has been so much research done and published in academic and medical journals, that information needs to be discussed and shared.

            There are at least 230 Ph.D's taking this course and there are other students who are anti-nuke saying whatever they want, it isn't all lost.

        • Trawling4Trolls

          Note this statement of yours describes corporate trolling exactly,

          "In an article I posted earlier, it said that the engineers at Fukushima Daiichi were so arrogant that they thought they had the right to falsify safety records."

          You see, when you're a big multinational and have had countless 'agents' embedded at your international facilities over the years and have bought into the Patriotism Religion Helped by Radiation Religion you develop a certain arrogance, as 'entitled' as the New Nobility, and above the laws .. of thought.

          You then take on the Internet Mission .. and troll, professionally. Jim Stone, H2S, no quake damage, NPPs failing literally in synchrony .. all designed to foul the gearing.

      • irhologram

        I'm going to have to ask you to take that back, Jebus.. Not only on my account, but for the sake of anyone who's not for a MacArthy-eske lifestyle. All I asked for was to see pictures…no, " A " picture of coastal damage before the tsunami. We have a GOD-zillion photos and videos of an incoming meteor in Russia and we can't see a 9 EQ in Japan, land of the camera, for 40 minutes? Does that seem logical to you? Ask yourself: Why would it be offensive for me to ask to see a picture? WHAT conspiracy would I be promoting looking at pictures? Reaction to asking to see a picture as if it is a taboo feels really dark. Doesn't it to you?

        The pix you linked don't show coastal damage before the tsunami. Anne's oil refinery pic at Ichihara Chiba, just South of Tokyo, may be relevant because the tsunami only traveled sIx miles inland.

        This pix link is of the Sandai airport, with maps showing relative positioning of Sandai, Fukishima, and the epicenter 80 miles out to sea, parallel to Sandai. No tarmacs at the airport were torn up, no buildings were damaged, there was no fire, there were no earth bulges, no crevices. There was no visible damage, except from water. There was a pic of a burning building elsewhere in Sandai but impossible to tell if it was pre-tsunami.

        Do EQ "waves" do more damage at a distance?

        • Jebus Jebus

          Well sorry bud, I don't recall mentioning any names.
          And believe me I wasn't aiming at you. It's sad that you think I was. Absence of evidence makes not a crime. Lets all deal in the reality of what is happening to our essential pacific and try to get the world to wake up to the real threat to it's life's existance.
          Visitors to this site will be less put off, if those who try to embellish it with their own theories, take it to the OT thread.
          And I think that no one can predict what EQ waves do or don't do. Where they travel or don't. Earthquakes, especially the big ones, don't follow a script…

          • irhologram

            Maybe it was the fact that at the time your comment appeared directly under mine? Could be a reason. I am very glad. Very glad it taint so. I like you, Jebus, and I feel better. I still don't feel this is off topic. The word I would use is: controversial. What it boils down to is we can't even ask to see a bleeping picture without seeming offensive…and need to take it to the back room chat out of concern someone will turn off on us. In speaking of preventing recurrence of such events, it seemed to me you'd have to be sure what OCCURRED in the first place. But we can't go there here.

            • Jebus Jebus

              irhologram, assumptions are what got the planet into this mess in the first place. Why not just do your own search for what you want to believe and when you find the solid evidence of your suspicions, come on over and lay it on the world. Depending upon someone else to provide proof against your theory, before you have a case, is null. Bring your proof to the table and let it stand the test of peers. Not finding any pics of the coast after the EQ and before the Tsunami is null. Comparing an EQ on another continent to Japan's condition is also null. You or I will never know what actually happened at that moment from our perspective. The issue at hand is more dire than practicing hindsight right now. That is best left for the survivors of this unfolding trama to this earth's ecosystem, if any…
              Right now, it does not matter how it happened, it matters more that it still is…

        • irhologram

          These are pix of Concepcion, Chile…70 miles from the 8.8 EQ there, a similar distance to the 80 miles Sandai was from the epicenter on 3/11. https://www.google.com/search?q=pix+of+chile+eq+conception&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari.

          Wouldn't you say the two EQs (before the tsunami) were at opposite ends of the scale in damage to similar-type buildings and to roads/infrastructure…? Japan, no visible damage; Concepcion, buildings in a blender and roads ripped.

          It is disheartening that inquiry is not welcome here, but only popular data. I will drop this and put my jaw back in place after it's drop, shocked and awed by conformity.

          • Jebus Jebus

            You know whats really disheartening dude? When you turn to your fellow man daily and point him in the direction of the ill winds and waves that are slowly accumulating mans worst toxic trash, incrementally killing the very existance of life itself that mother nature took millions of years to create what it is today and they look at you , blink three times and say, "So, what can I do about it? Besides, I went there and thats just a nutty conspiracy theory site, surely they have that under control and won't let that happen to us"

            • irhologram

              You went where? I didn't post any conspiracy blogs, just pictures. I point people in the direction of toxic waste? This discussion has gone off the deep end. I'm out.

          • Trawling4Trolls

            Why don't you research the Japanese community in Chile's response to that quake.

            You literally could learn a great deal as there is a number of ex-Japanese in Chile.

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          irhologram. The link you gave me is a group of pictures of "a" tsunami somewhere and pictures that have nothing to do with a tsunami. But if you don't look at the individual articles, there is no way that you know if it is a picture of the ocean, a tsunami in Indonesia, a tsunami 10 or 20 years ago, etc. And some earthquakes have more horizontal waves, and some have more vertical waves. And since I did so much research before for you, it seems to me that you are just trying to distract me as I suspected in the past you were probably doing as well.

          Good luck

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            And some news articles just pull out a picture from a file for a breaking story.

          • irhologram

            Anne. This isn't ABOUT you. Besides, I just noticed in his link, Jebus provided a pic most likely authentic of road collapse the tsunami may not have caused. THAT'S ALL I WAS ASKING for. There are a lot of edgy people out there. (And in here.). Geez.

            Once and for all…no, I'll probably say it again, lol…When I ask a question it IS NOT because I am looking to prove a thesis. Just the opposite! It's because it's scientific method. Now we all know that's how an ideal world should work…but somehow, in here, there are often times when people are railed against for simply wanting more info, if that's perceived as going against popular opinion. An assumption is made that consensus makes it true and anyone questioning status quo conclusions is a "conspiracy theorist," if they appear to rock one's opinion boat.

            Sorry to keep you from your important research and detailing your professorial struggles…"wasting your time. If you don't want to give me your time, here's an idea. Next time: Don't.

            • Trawling4Trolls

              My sense of things Psychiatric tells me you have 'issues', irholo, that likely originated in childhood.
              Like some 'authority' you couldn't escape kept taking things from you, and now, employed by a large 'authority'-company, you find yourself working for it, again.

              Polite version.

            • Trawling4Trolls

              "road collapse" !

              jebus, how did I KNOW this clown was gonna say that?

              The purest of trolling.

            • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

              irhologram, I gave you a similar photo in the past. I even talked about it above and you said it wasn't important. I have also given you discussion from the past right now. And it is obvious that you have not looked at all the information in those discussion. Well, next time I will have the links to past discussions ready for you, including the comments in this section.

              There is no reason to have to repeat the same information over and over again for the same person. My class is free and online. The only reason I mention anything is to record what the nuclear industry is trying to keep secret from the public and the methods they employ to do that. If you are one of them, good luck.

        • Trawling4Trolls

          "Do EQ "waves" do more damage at a distance?"

          Did Japan's refusal of direct international assistance after 3/11 do more damage "at a distance"? Intentionally?

          Nice people.

  • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

    When Fukushima blew,

    1) It was never expected by TEPCO officials, therefore no safety plans of actions to be taken in such an eventuality were written.

    2) TEPCO did not know what to do in the event of such a catastrophe.

    3) The site has been and is so "hot" that they can barely work there. Who knows how long it will be before they can?

    4) They still do not know all that is happening or what, if anything can be done about it so have allowed the water with which they cool to pollute the Pacific Ocean.

    5) They did not sacrifice themselves as the Russians did at Chernobyl.

    6) I no long read TEPCO press releases. They either lie and then contradict themselves in a never ending pattern or maybe the translation is at fault. They do not admit liability, so cannot tell the truth.

    7) The U.S. operates nuclear power the same way and there is no proper regulation of the nuclear industry anywhere in the U.S. by anyone.

    Thanks for everyone's contributions here and especially to anne and PhilipUpNorth.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Hormesis Theory~This guy must make lots of money!

    Just think what is happening at the virus and bacteria level?

  • Ron

    The title of this article:

    Japan Expert: New radioactive leaks from Fukushima Reactor No. 2 may be underway; Concern about ‘vertical streams’ — Tepco: Impossible to completely prevent it from spreading

    Another on the front page:

    Record levels of radioactive material detected at Fukushima — 600,000 Bq/liter in groundwater — Official: May be seeping from reactors into ocean

    Yet another:

    WSJ: Soaring radioactivity levels on coast of Fukushima plant — Nuclear material may have leeched from melted fuel cores and into environment

    "May be" have almost always turns out to be "is" or "did".

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Sure..Ok ..its natural?

    "Oklo is the only known location for this in the world and consists of 16 sites at which self-sustaining nuclear fission reactions took place approximately 1.7 billion years ago"

    Natural and maybe at a time when humans did not exist on Planet Earth?

    Maybe aliens were simply cooking up some electricity for them selves and their buddies and/or a bunch of Nuclear Meltdowns occurred way back then too?

    I was referring to our current postage stamp time line…

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      What is the temperature of molten lava?
      From 700C to 1200C.
      Uranium dioxide fuel melts at 2,865 degrees Celsius.
      In a molten blob of melted fuel, temperatures can be expected to keep on rising from there, perhaps to 5,000C, a temperature approaching that of the surface of the sun (6,000C).
      So, our man-made nuclear meltdowns are really like "mini suns."

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    If you look and then stare at the pictures in the above links…you will see mankind's future.. if mankind stays on this present Nuclear Technology Radiation Contamination course.. and sadly it has already been proven.

    A picture tells a thousand stories and this is not a story that any human living today should and/or wants to ignore at this time.

    Pay attention and then spread the good news.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Has it begun and will it get worse in the near future for all biological life?

  • Jebus Jebus

    Some just can't handle being held to the truth.
    The topic of this thread is just that, and it leaves me with these questions.
    How do I tell my grand daughters why they can't go play next to the ocean, like I did as a child?
    How do I explain to them how it feels to taste the salt air?
    How do I tell them what it feels like to reach into a tide pool, pick up a starfish and feel it's many little feet tickle my hand?
    How do I tell them about all the great creatures that once were in the sea?
    How do I explain to them what once was?
    When they inquire about where all these great creatures went, what do I say?
    Do I just tell them that very few people cared for them and that's why they are gone.
    What do I tell them when they ask why?…

  • Trawling4Trolls

    A virtual interview with irhologram from May 28, 2012,

    Interview with a Troll

  • What do the parents say to their kids who live near Chernobyl, TMI, and FUKU, not to mention the thousands of other nuclear radiation contaminated sites?

    Sometimes ignorance is bliss, because the pain is too hard to handle of knowing the truth. Denial may indeed be better, becuase then life is simpler, easier in a way, and there are less issues with working for and/or with the darkness; nuclear, coal, oil, and the other dozens of monopolies globally.

    The burden of carrying the awareness and the truth of this is not easy, and the answer is blowing in the wind…

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Its only blowing in the wind because its odorless, tasteless and invisible and no one is teaching any of the world's serfs the ramifications of using such technology.

    The serfs simply keep lining up at the doctors offices and hospitals for their chemo treatments as they pray to their mythical Gods that they themselves, their wives, their family members and/or children's children might be saved from the new diseases now emerging.

    Keep scrambling the DNA and we might not even recognize each other in the near future….are you human? Is that a dog? Was that a bunny rabbit? A fish that walks? Trees with no leaves? etc etc..

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    ~Hormesis Theory~

    If this theory was true then all the people of the world would be heading directly to these three nuclear meltdowns and they all would be donating all their time since it would be their goal to become very healthy.

    You know like the millions that go to the hot springs each year…these meltdowns are warm and hot too!

    In fact the US government would/should be paying for their entire population to travel directly to Japan and then to walk through the Fukushima nuclear meltdown complex because of all the healthy people it would instantly create, just like a vaccination.

    Just think no need for any more hospitals and/or doctors and/or medical treatments ever again for anyone…

    The Wizard of OZ might finally get rid of those medical banking cartel mafia syndicates now called health insurance companies too.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    I am sure a $600.00 round trip flight to Japan is much cheaper than any $15,000.00 a year health insurance/care plan..just saying.

    We need to immediately pass the "Nuclear Meltdown Good Health Care Law" right away and sanction all $600.00 mandatory flights to Japan right away for all Americans.

    This will not be a choice and it will be "mandatory" for all Americans to do this within one year!

    Maybe other countries will come on line too.

    WE need more healthy people if we are at what 26% of GDP for just health insurance and medical care/treatments.

    Japan will love this!

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    In fact..what was I thinking?

    All we have to do is pick 10 Nuclear reactors here in the good ole USA and make sure they are at pivots points in the jet streams and water ways and just turn off the electricity.


    Just let these 10 Nuclear Reactors in prime locations and in highly populated cities/regions go into a full melt down and only then will we have "good health" for the entire nation!

    No travel to Japan and/or inconvenience required and just stay home glued to your TV sets and allow the good warm nuclear radiation contamination energy from these Nuclear Power Planet meltdowns permeate everything around you. Breath in deeply!

    Open your windows and allow the "good health of radiation contamination" to enter your world!

    Yea that's the ticket!

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    'Vertical streams'..are they talking about the fault line that runs through Fukushima Npp.

    "In several of these cross-sections, an ancient fault, predating the later Miocene, is clearly visible under the nuclear site. Whereas the geological survey conducted prior to the construction of the plant does not reveal this fault (drilling did not go beyond a depth of 200 meters at the time), it is clear from the cuments dated 2009 and 2010 that Tepco and the NSC have known about it for several years. The following cross-section shows this fault with even greater depth (- 1300 m):"

    Please see link:


    Ya..I have concerns about vertical streams.
    Concerns of corium pouring into faults..like this one off shore..Fukushima.

    Aug 15 2011