Expert thinks US West Coast might see contamination of water and fish by 2013

Published: June 5th, 2011 at 10:57 am ET
By

98 comments


Transcript for Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers of Fukushima Are Worse and Longer-lived Than We Think, Chris Martenson, June 3, 2011:

Arnie Gundersen, nuclear consultant

So eventually though we are going to see top of the food chain animals like tuna and salmon and things like that that have this process bio accumulates. The bigger fish gradually get higher and higher concentrations. And I am concerned that the FDA is not monitoring fish entering the United States because sooner or later a tuna is going to set off a radiation alarm at some part and people are going to think it’s a dirty bomb or something like that. So that’s not here yet because the tuna haven’t migrated across the Pacific. But I am thinking by 2013 we might see contamination of the water and of the top of the food chain fishes on the West Coast.

Listen to the audio interview here.

Published: June 5th, 2011 at 10:57 am ET
By

98 comments

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98 comments to Expert thinks US West Coast might see contamination of water and fish by 2013

  • Sam

    Another damn lie! With no testing being done how do we
    know what the levels of contamination is in our water and
    food and air. Saying the contamination will arrive in 2013
    is to give us a psychic breathing space and tranquilize the
    masses. This is diversionary nonsense. The threat is NOW,
    not in 2013.

    • WindorSolarPlease

      I agree with you.

      It should not take years to get here. That jet stream can be fast moving.

      Maybe that is when we will notice it?

    • ZP

      That about sums it up.

    • Yes, the threat is now. Radiation is already in seaweed along the north American west coast, from Alaska down as far as California (confirmed by multiple reports of test results from recent weeks, showing levels of radioactive isotopes higher than the legal limits, which legal limits are not at all safe, in any case).

      This radiation being found in seaweed must be due to the “dry deposition” (surface accumulation from airborne radioactive particles) alone, given that the ocean currents are said to take about a year or so to move large amounts of water to north America from Japan (so this would make it early 2012, in any case, NOT 2013!). So, any description of a threat “in years” smacks of obvious dis-information.

      • If it is in our seaweed it is in the our water that our fish in our area breathe, ingest and are made of.

        • Exactly. The ocean water on the north American west coast must be significantly contaminated by radioactivity already, given the detectable levels in the seaweed.

          Also, as many are already aware, with seaweed being so low on the ocean food chain, the radioactive contamination will move on up the food chain and continue (over time) to bio-accumulate in all the other fish and so on that we humans love to eat.

          The pollution of the Pacific Ocean due to the airborne fallout alone is therefore a great disaster for all on Earth. And this does not even take into account the constant leaks of extremely radioactive water into the ocean, directly from the Fukushima plant!

      • SteveMT

        For what it is worth Savvy, I bought a bunch of tuna, shrimp, kelp, and spirulina. We still may be goners, but this may provide a buffer for life to recover. Just do it.

      • mikael

        You are wrong, it takes aproc 2-4 weeks before it hits Alaska first and later down the coust of USA, in Oregon(taken from memory) a person missing in Japan turn up as a corpse just north of california.
        Your sea is already heavily contaminated.

        They are lying.

        • I see – thanks for the comment. Perhaps the figure of one year I was remembering is to do with the mass of tsunami/radiation-laden rubbish on the ocean surface that is going to FLOAT to the coast of north AMerica by early 2012.

          In any case, the combination of dry deposition and of whatever amount of highly radioactive ocean water that is already flowing to the west coast of north America has resulted in the detectable and unsafe levels in seaweed as of weeks ago.

          Definitely “they” are lying about many, many facts.

        • cuica

          That’s right. The US has been complaining for decades about China’s pollution arriving in the states. It takes exactly 5 days to cross the pacific and enter the US.

          http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=8cfb9df8-b75d-403e-a60e-deca3a71c748

      • Godzilla

        There’s another POSSIBLE source: the Hanford Site. It was almost as bad as Fukus but even more successfully covered up, at one point pouring terabequerels of contamination into the Columbia River and out to sea. It’s possible that might be the source of the radioactive seaweed (if so, maybe the Japanese in that area would have a higher rate of cancer if they ate lots of seaweed).

        Wiki: “The weapons production reactors were decommissioned at the end of the Cold War, but the manufacturing process left behind 53 million U.S. gallons (204,000 m³) of high-level radioactive waste that remains at the site.[5] This represents two-thirds of the nation’s high-level radioactive waste by volume.[6] Today, Hanford is the most contaminated nuclear site in the United States[7][8] and is the focus of the nation’s largest environmental cleanup.[2] ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_site

    • SteveMT

      The same asinine statements are being foist upon us in other areas and it seems to be working there very well, so why not here also (is their thinking).

      Examples:

      1. Medicare
      2. Medicaid
      3. Social Security
      4. Budget Deficits
      5. Federal/State Bankruptcies
      6. National Debt
      7. Our undeclared Wars Will Be Ending Very Soon.
      8. Gulf Oil Spill Did Nothing Measurable
      9. We Got bin Laden, But We Won’t Provide Any Evidence
      10. Two planes hit two Buildings in two different places and three Buildings came down symmetrically by the synchronous, simultaneous, sequential failure of millions of parts.

      • WarIsPeace

        The sheeple are gullible, dumbed-down, brain-dead zombies with no capacity to think for themselves, and TPTB know it. I was astounded that anyone believed the bin Laden “fish story” as I am that no one seems concerned about Nukushima. We are so screwed. Baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa…

        • justice

          People say that 911 was a conspiracy theory, that the goverment is covering up what actually happened. I say bullshit. No conspiracy here. They aren’t trying to hide anything. They could have knocked the buildings down at night and we would never have all that video tape that clearly points to an explosion. Nope. They want us to watch and want us to agree with them….right girls and boys?

      • Too True

        ouch!…how are millions putting up with this?

    • NowWhat

      Your knee jerk response is unwarranted. It’s not a “damn lie”. It’s a fact. Mr. Gunderson is talking about water transport, not air transport. It takes 2 years for the ocean currents to move water from Japan to the US. And there is heavy contamination of the ocean off of Fukushima. The fact that air contamination has reached the US, does not cancel out the long term risks associated with a contaminated ocean. And based on the amounts of radioactivity that could potentially be dumped into the water, as opposed to the air, it could pose the most serious threat to American health. Especially on the west coast.

      Are you suggesting that this threat should be ignored simply because it is a more long term problem? If so, then you are a misguided fool.

      • NowWhat

        My response was directed at Sam. Some how it popped up in the wrong place.

      • arclight arclight

        i actually remeber reading an earlier article somewhere that the larger debris will also have the added force of wind action as well as tidal and that could take as little as a year….smaller debris could yake a year…also there is alot of debris….maybe someone can confirm this with the link i lost!!!

  • “Japan should not imitate Russia in squandering billions of dollars to “protect” people from radiation that is actually beneficial. It should instead base its response on sound scientific data rather than unjustified fear.“

    I don’t know what to say about this article.

    http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/156668/20110603/chernobyl-russia-japan-tokyo-radiation-level-fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-luckey.htm

    • charlie

      Paying no attention to clowns is perhaps the best idea right now, rather than wasting time on them, anthony.

    • anne

      “Health Guide for the Modern Family”. Sorry. This should be called DEATH guide for the modern family.

  • WAY before 2013!!! It was in the seaweed here within about a weeks time.

    • jump-ball

      When KI was unavailable in March, I bought 8 bottles of kelp Iodine tabs – Atlantic kelp – thinking of 6 kids and 8 grandkids who remain totally un-prepped and unconcerned about nuclear contamination as well as financial debt-collapse issues.

      Any idea Anthony how long Pacific canned tuna and salmon will remain buyable? My feeling now is that the 2012 U.S. west coast-Baja spring bluefin tuna catch, of the tuna migrating later this year as juveniles from their spawning-growing area in eastern Honshu coastal waters, will not be safe to eat.

      • Jump-Ball I agreed with you points and don’t know the answer. I think bio accumulation is one thing but basic poisoning of the ocean to me means even ONE bad fish eaten randomly will have effects for the consumer. I think the real truth is we don’t know the answers about oceanic radiation poisoning.

        In fact your question made me check tuna I got Friday…. which only has a best before date on it of Sept 2012. There is also a lot number or code on the can, but NO *PACKAGED ON* date whatsoever!

        Uh oh.

        • Jack

          Anthony, some Light on Tuna dates:
          From a few years ago…
          :
          :Product: Chicken of the Sea CHUNK LIGHT TUNA in WATER
          Code Number from container (found on lid, bottom of can, or back of pouch): JX4AR 5ZCLV
          Size of the container: (ie, 6 oz.) : 6 oz.
          UPC / bar code number: 480240
          Place of Purchase: Silver City, NM 88061
          Comment: I want to learn about date codes-shelf life for your products, expirations and expected or suggested freshness– “Best By…” dates. Your web page says something about confidentiality of the codes, which seems pretty ridiculous in these Quality-Conscious days! We need to KNOW how long a can of your tuna can be safely used…I want more than only this one product code! I handle donated cans for a charity food program, and I need to Know that a particular can is OK or Not!! Star-Kist gives an Embossed code on the can, which can then be understood by the potential buyer or user of the product. You guys should do the same, or print a “Use-By” date- I hope you will accept this as a Quality Competition Suggestion! If you feel like it, send me some free coupons or samples!! “Ask any Mermaid you Happen to See…”
          ——

          Thank you for contacting us. The product code you provided tells us the product was packed in November 4, 2003; it has a four (4) year shelf life for the best flavor. Chicken of the Sea canned/pouched tuna and skinless, boneless salmon is the first line of the code the first character tells you what year the product was packed and there is a four(4) year shelf life for canned products and two (2) year shelf life for the pouched product.
          The following tells you how to read the year the product was packed. If the top line first character is:

          5 or T packed 2001

          C or A packed 2002

          F or J packed 2003

          M or P packed 2004

          V or 7 packed 2005

          If top line first character is different then what is on the chart, please call 1-800-456-1511 or write to our Consumer Affairs. Thank you for contacting us…

          • Al in Hawaii

            Jack,

            I gave chicken of the sea a call based upon the phone number in your post. For what it’s worth they indicated that if a product like tuna has a 4 year shelf life, then if you go back 4 years from the “best by” date, that is the packing date. Makes sense.

            Aloha,

            Al

      • For those wanting to buy the best canned fish on the market (at least in my opinion and that of many people I know!) check out “Vital Choice”: http://www.vitalchoice.com (I am not affiliated with this company in any way – I simply love their fish, as it is the best!)

        Having written to Vital Choice in early May relative to the HARVEST date of their currently shipping canned tuna, this is the reply I received (on May 6th):

        “Thank you for choosing vital Choice Wild Seafood & Organics. The harvest was late 2010. And the BEST BUY date is 02/2016.”

        It would be worth contacting them again (now one month later) to ensure that this is STILL the harvest date of the tuna in cans currently being shipped. My wife and I ordered a large shipment of cans immediately after learning the harvest date and have been enjoying delicious and safe tuna for the past few weeks.

        • PS. Vital Choice does charge more than the average for canned fish (even twice as much and more), though their product is literally not comparable to any other brand of canned fish I have personally ever eaten (and I have tried many brands of canned fish throughout my life, in several different countries where I have lived). The old saying that “you get what you pay for” holds true. In this case, you get the best and meatiest and tastiest fish ever put in a can.

        • SteveMT

          Tonka Seafood out of Alaska is also a good option. Great company. They ship everywhere. We maybe never be able to eat seafood again.

          http://tonkaseafoods.com/

          • Yes, being born and raised in Australia, where we have always had some of the most awesome fresh seafood I’ve ever eaten anywhere, I am personally VERY VERY SAD about the situation.

            Then (beyond my own selfish sadness) there is the fact that radioactively contaminating the world’s largest food supply (the Pacific Ocean) is going to have repercussions for thousands of years that are so destructive for all life on Earth that it is REALLY SAD for ANYONE to consider.

          • Also, thanks for the tip about Tonka – it looks like great fish too!

          • cb

            ..and there’s all those 55 gallon drums of nuke waste/other nuke paraphenalia off CA and elsewhere that are rusting open, Savvy…

        • Sickputer

          Smart tuna can research there Savvy…you earned your username.

          More tuna notes:

          Charlie Tuna gets a gill full of Cesium 137 from Fukushima radiation: Arnie Gundersen thinks dangerous by 2013…I think by early summer 2011 if not already. Albacore tuna swim at 50 mph so at half that speed they can travel 6,000 miles in 10 days. They can arrive pretty quick after leaving from the Fukashima coastline when they get ready to go east. The US tuna industry is trying to dispute the fish have actually been to Japan…well let’s see what proof they have (none) and what proof I have that they do spawn off Fukushima (substantial).

          Oregon tuna assocation webpages asserts there is no threat from the annual summer migrating albacore tuna arriving with nasty radiation because the fish avoid cold water (false) “these fish do not come anywhere close to the cold waters of Japan”. http://www.oregonalbacore.org/ and http://www.wfoa-tuna.org/news/

          SickPuter: Yes they do go into water as cold as 3 degrees Celsius (37 degrees Fahrenheit): http://afrf.org/tagging/tagreport.pdf

          Sickputer: Yes they do go to Fukushima offshore areas:
          US government fishery study:
          “…North Pacific albacore stock, particularly the juvenile fish (2-5 year olds), typically conduct an expansive annual migration that begins in the spring and early summer in waters off Japan, continues throughout the late summer into inshore waters off the U.S. Pacific coast…”
          http://swfsc.noaa.gov/textblock.aspx?ParentMenuId=136&id=1174

          Another link that proves tuna live off the shore of eastern Japan:
          http://seafood.ucdavis.edu/pubs/albacorefishery.htm
          “The North Pacific albacore stock is also harvested by Asian fisheries, including a Japanese pole-and-line fishery in the spring, which targets two to five year old fish off the Japanese coast eastward to near the Emperor Seamount chain”.

          Another tuna link…see the Japanese coastal map on page 11 showing tagged albacore tuna fish near…

          • Sickputer

            Another tuna link…see the Japanese coastal map on page 11 showing tagged albacore tuna fish near Fukushima (yes this is a 1950s study, but the main migration changes over the years have been when they arrive off North America some years they concentrate off Oregon and some years lower off California offshore areas…they return to Japan to spawn and eat smaller sea creatures off the Japanese eastern coast line):
            http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt9g500708&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text

            BTW…most canned supermarket white tuna (perhaps 95%) in America originate from older larger albacore tuna causght by Japanese fisherman. That species of tuna is also affected by high levels of mercury for many years caused by global sea water pollution.

          • Sickputer

            Sickputer
            >>>>>>>>Your comment is awaiting moderation.<<<<<<<<<<

            Well, I hope since I saw my tuna post part 1 on another of my computers with the same header message that everyone got to see the Charlie Tuna part 1 of my posting?

            New moderation policy to handle some of the potty mouth flamers I guess?

            Thanks,

            SP

      • Godzilla

        Jump, it may come down to buying a radiation detector and testing your own food. Maybe if there’s a huge explosion and heavy fallout cloud, the US would mandate testing – I don’t know, but that seems a bit optimistic. It’s also possible that healthfood stores will carry pre-tested foods but it will probably be at an exorbitant cost.

  • Sam

    TD Luckey the radiation scientist of the aforementioned article should go and live in Fukushima city and eat produce, fish and meat from the area and then we will see if he makes his claims that low dose radiation can be beneficial in preventing cancer
    and birth defects. He is another shill of the nuclear industry
    attempting to keep America in a tranquilized state of
    stupor. To him all this talk of consequences from Fukushima
    are theoretical and based on “unjustified fear.”
    Who is paying him to make these stupid comments.

  • charlie

    This situation DOES present an opportunity for a business – an independent tester of seafood is needed and could make a good future career out of this…if the guberment won’t do it, let’s do it ourselves!

    • Sam

      I agree Charlie. . If the fish are contaminated
      then there will be no demand and the industry collapses.
      There goes all the sea food for the crops we grow. You would have to put the fishermen on unemployment compensation, food stamps and begin a job retraining program for them

  • jump-ball

    After 3-11 I doubled my (financial-collapse) prep supply of long-dated 2015-16 canned tuna and salmon, reasoning that at some later point of contamination Pacific seafood would achieve Gulf of Toxico status, after which I would never buy more.

    As Fuku I has remained chaotic, I have added several more cases, without telling family or friends, who have been rolling their eyes.

    Now, one of my suppliers can’t keep canned salmon on the shelf, and I return regularly and take what he has; I’m watching to see if shortages continue or worsen, and to find out if this is an early indicator of wider shortages as well as consumer awareness and preparation.

    “If you are one step ahead of everybody else, you’re a genius. If you’re two steps ahead, you’ll be viewed as the nutcase.”

    Empty shelves will tell me I’ve fallen back to the one-step-ahead genius category.

  • Whoopie

    http://tin­yurl.com/6­jhealn
    NEW ONE UP AT LUCAS WHITEFIELD­S

    • Sam

      I am in so much awe of the competence of
      Tepco personnel in these photos. Now I
      can go back to sleep assured I am in safe
      hands.

      • Whoopie

        Oh hell yeah! Back to sleep Sheep.

        • I suspect Sam was being sarcastic 😉

          All those people staring into screens, hoping (or perhaps not?) the data they are processing is genuine, despite sensors all over the site ‘misbehaving’.

          Meanwhile, out in meatspace people are dying and they will keep on doing so until these TEPCOs harden up their hands and get physical – like ring piling the entire site to contain the radiation until a useful company like ecovac.de get an outpouring of global funding (ya know, just like the Indonesian tsunami appeal?) so they can do their thing at Fukushima.

          Judging by this clip, they are still in sleepwalking territory.

  • nard

    eventually people will go grocery shopping with a small portable radiation detector (handheld) testing rads in there food purchases.

    • Whoopie

      Saw an ad a few weeks ago (maybe poster here) of a “Stylish Radiation Detector Bracelet” I kid you not. Blew me away.

    • Sam

      I would think the stores would ban your use of the
      hand held detectors. They would sue you for libel if you
      dared speak out loud that something was contaminated.
      You would be hurting their bottom line which is
      economic survival and keeping employees in a job. Yes,
      the food will be contaminated every so increasingly as the
      days and months go by and nothing eventually we be as
      safe as we might want it to be.

      • Whoopie

        Awhile back, Dutcher’s were talking about walking into stores with those…to draw attention to the radiation HERE. I think it’s a great idea…video taping the whole time. They might kick you out..but not before a crowd gathered.

        • Sam

          Totally agree on the idea. It would be a dramatic
          way to bring attention to the situation via You Tube
          etc.. Problem with hand held devices is that they
          give a gross radiation count. nothing specific as to
          how much cesium, strontium etc is in the food. For
          that you need expensive scintillation counters.
          Hope someone goes and scans the produce this
          summer.

        • I agree it would out attention the issue. Say you found a hot item and could televise its testing somehow… you really wouldn’t have to say anything more beyond that to get everyone`s attention for action! Good idea!

  • New forum to discuss non-technical aspects of Fukushima:

    Japan earthquake – contamination & consequences outside Fukushima NPP
    [Nuclear Power Plant]

    http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=501637

    • Godzilla

      Thanks, Pu! I’d sure like to check out a site that doesn’t have a lot of comments about how stupid scientists are compared to Huffington Post and GLP members. Hopefully they won’t be calling everyone “shills” and trolls if there’s disagreement, nor a lot of talk about ELEs.

      This place does have an excellent news roundup though.

    • charlie

      thank you – that thread holds lots of promise as contamination continues to be released.

  • James

    Physics forums are completely coopted by the nuclear PR machine.

    There is not a shred of truth over there.

    Just try and link an article from Enews and discuss it. You’ll be shouted down in an instant.

    • SteveMT

      I thought that physicists of all professionals especially deal in hard facts/data/reality….something called objectivity. How can this happen?

      • James

        Yup, real scientists deal in facts, and draw hypotheses and conclusions from them.

        However real scientists don’t manufacture facts to support their preferred conclusions (at least honest ones don’t).

        Real scientists welcome others to debate their conclusions or present new points of view – they don’t enlist PR tools like ad hominem and piling on to reject another argument.

        Real scientists don’t ignore data that conflicts with their preferred conclusion – or worse yet, not even look for it.

        And finally, when presented with new unknown data, real scientists take a look and if it refutes their preferred theory, they drop it, because the thing itself dictates the truth, not their opinion about the thing.

        What you will see on Physics forums is a bunch of pseudo scientific debate on the disinformation topic of the week.

        • Cassie

          I would like to think that a real scientist is willing to be convinced. And does not dismiss data and information out of hand because of the prevailing social and political norms.

          I would assume a real scientist has an independent mind set, and can do both linear and global thinking. And can operate in a way that is moral, fair and just. With an eye to consequences.

    • Perhaps there are some “shreds of truth” over there (though maybe not about the dangers of ionising radiation), however, as some people on the Physics Forums do provide very interesting analysis of the possible/probable physical situation, such as:

      http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3308999&postcount=7727

      (from more than two weeks ago now, but still very interesting comments)

    • WHY KRYPTON-85

      http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=501637&page=3

      The link is to ex-skf.blogspot.com…
      But why were the government experts interested in krypton-85? What does krypton-85 represent? And iodine-129? (The simulation maps are only about krypton-85; they are still sitting on iodine-129 maps or any other maps of other nuclides.)

      When it comes to fallout data, either TEPCO has to stop throwing people under the bus or get a bigger bus.
      In my opinion, EX-SKF misunderstands the data he found. Those are only mathmatical simulations as for how a cloud of Krypton-85 would’ve behaved if there would’ve been one.

      There are only two things we can derive from those images: Direction of a possible Krypton-85 plume that day and densitiy over distance based on initial release.
      It doesn’t show us what really happened.

      Krypton-85 is a noble gas. It has a very, very, very short biological half life (the body throws it out as soon as it gets in) and is a beta decayer (it’s only a problem if it’s inside), so there is probably little to none significance for any health damage.

      The nuclear waste facilities Sellafield and La Hague are releasing Krypton gas in the magnitude of hundreds of PBq every year. The converted release of C137 and I131 at Fukushima was 630 PBq. The conversion factor for noble gases (Krypton-85) is zero. (according to the INES manual)

      So IAEA is apparently thinking of Krypton-85 as “not dangerous at all”.

    • The forum is very strict about keeping discussion to technical topics only.

      Anything about exposure limits, contamination and such get stern warnings – because the forum is about nuclear engineering and reactors.

      However, the sysop, noting that discussions often wander off into contamination, TEPCO, the nuclear industry, the end of the world and so on, did open up a new forum to discuss that.

      Physics Forums > Engineering > Nuclear Engineering
      Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

      Physics Forums > Engineering > Nuclear Engineering
      Japan earthquake – contamination & consequences outside Fukushima NPP

      It’s likely if you repost what was rejected before into this new forum, it will get accepted.

      • New thread for Fukushima discussion:

        http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=501637&page=3

        Physics Forums > Engineering > Nuclear Engineering
        Japan earthquake – contamination & consequences outside Fukushima NPP

        • James

          Despite your attempt to draw everyone over to the IP monitored and managed conclusions at Physics forums..

          I will point out that for anyone that wants the truth that place is useless.

          • No, just thought it might be useful as an extra source of technical info.

            This site is still the best for the lay person.

            Or, does anyone know of a good one-stop source for technical discussion?

          • misitu

            I did’nt know about that site earlier and have just had a look at the most relevant threads. Thanks all for the pointer.

            What interests me is that quite early on they were commenting with as much alarm as is expressed here. That should be food for thought.

            Also FfT is that they have created “political” threads which suggests they have realised that a Bigger Picture needs to be looked at. Revealing, rewarding (to lay observers), and also worrying because it helps to confirm fears that this calamity has not burnt itself out, and won’t for a long long time.

            I remember a short sf story either by Harry Harrison or Larry Niven titled “War Q” when a returning space traveller arrives at a lush and verdant Earth empty of humanity, with only a giant enigmatic “WAR Q” carved on various rocks.

            Turns out that Q was the shape of the microorganism that wiped out the higher life forms.

            Still trying to get my head round this.

          • misitu

            WAR Q
            and WAR would at that time have stood in the universal language code for BEWARE.

  • HoseB

    Can someone help me put all this into perspective?

    Recently watched “Countdown to Zero”, Lucy Walker’s documentary on the world’s nuclear arsenals. I believe it stated there are some 23,000 plus nuclear warheads in the world containing approximately 1700 tons of HEU.

    Somewhere over the last few months I believe I read that just one of the blown out reactors at Fukushima contains 100 tons of HEU. Are these numbers accurate?

    If they are, then we have been exposed to radioactive material equivalent to that found in some 1,350 nuclear weapons in just one of the disabled reactors.

    Also remember seeing information indicating the US exploded 331 bombs in the ocean and atmosphere before stopping atmospheric testing.

    Obviously, the detonation of a nuclear weapon and the melt down of a core as experienced at the Fukushima Daiichi plants is vastly different (probably more akin to the detonation of a “dirty bomb”).

    However, the sheer magnitude of the accident needs to be put in a perspective the average person can relate to. . .and that’s what I’m trying to do.

    So, any help in this is appreciated.

  • AustralianCannonball

    I posted these 2 links about 12 hours ago. As I am in Australia and I think most of you are in the US I will do a re-post to cover the time difference. I made them yesterday(Sunday for me):

    Fukushima Victims:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAl1mdAa4bQ

    Fukushima Deception:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNZnaEJo_kc

  • Terranigma

    Thank God for Arthur Treacher’s!

    BTW, I’ve been working outside a lot lately digging up shrub beds, edging, digging up the garden, sweating like crazy in this heat, and I’ve had a burning throat, chest pain while breathing, lots of phlegm and mucus. Don’t tell me this is allergies or whatever because I have never felt like this in past years. It has to be related to the radiation. God only knows what isotopes are in the ground.

    Mothra is right. They must start checking seafood for radiation.

  • What are they going to do after hundreds of missing Japanese dead bodies start to come ashore in a few months? Would they burn them all because they are all full of radiation? Would that be civil?

  • How would people, how do you do that? If you were so let’s imagine, Arnie, there you are, you are living in Tokyo now or closer, how would you be behaving over there right now?

    Arnie Gundersen: Yea, and actually we should extend this to the West Coast, because the same particles there too. To answer your question about Tokyo; what I’m advising people in Tokyo who are there now, is take your shoes off at the door, wet dust. Don’t dry dust. We are actually finding that contamination inside houses is higher now than contamination outside because it has been trucked in over the last two months and it hasn’t left. And if you dry dust you throw all of that radioactive material up into the air. I am also advising friends there to buy these little HEPA filters, high efficiency particulate filters that look like a little round device that sits on the floor, and change the filters frequently. Also advising people to remove the filters in their air conditioners and the air conditioner in their car, and replace them. Because they pick up particles over the last couple of months and it is a good time to replace them as well. Also telling people don’t do any demolition work. The last thing you want to do right now is tear a wing off your house because you will stir up that dust, not knowing exactly what’s in it, you run a risk of contamination.

    The other things I am telling friends in Tokyo is keep your eye on Unit Four. If there is an earthquake and Unit Four topples don’t believe the authorities you are well beyond where science has ever imagined and it is time to get on a flight and get out of there.

  • mark

    ok so we are being fed b.s from msn
    msm we know .shame on you i have a geiger counter you lie!

  • Novamind

    Tuna is caught off of the Oregon coast out about 200 miles give or take a few miles, when in season. Home canned Tuna makes can Tuna more like cat food- same size can not by chance.

  • SteveMT

    The wind will also blow this Reactor #2 “humidity” to Tokyo. What a brilliant new plan by TEPCO! What else can they do though in these desperate moments. Maintaining the status quo of these reactors for the next 1,000 years is overwhelming, and they are only at not even three months.
    What seems to be a paradox is that they are pumping water onto these reactors to cool them, so the humidity will naturally be high. There is no good way to reduce the radiation in the #2 reactor building in order to open the doors.

    TEPCO mulls ways to cut humidity in No.2 reactor
    Monday, June 06, 2011 05:13 +0900 (JST)

    The operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant says it will try to reduce humidity inside the Number 2 reactor building.

    Tokyo Electric Power Company says humidity and high radiation levels mean workers can work only for short periods of time even if they wear protective gear.

    TEPCO says it plans to reduce the amount of radioactive materials inside the reactor building and then open the doors to lower humidity, now at 99.9 percent.

    More here:

    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/06_02.html

  • Ian

    Meanwhile Tepco tiddles it’s thumbs and the Japanese public looks the other way.

    I drink milk and eat tuna. I’m really disgusted that I have to change my diet over this unending catastrophe. The whole food chain is going to be messed up.

  • California Dreaming

    Can anyone tell me whether a Geiger counter is useful to check radiation in meat? We’ve already stopped eating dairy and leafy vegies, but we give our baby meat for protein. B/C of allergies, our baby doesn’t react well to soy, tofu, beans, eggs, dairy, etc. I used to make bone soup, but I stopped, fearing the local animal bones have too much strontium. I wanted to get a Geiger counter, but my husband thinks a Geiger can detect only really high concentration so it is a waste of money. Also, the price range is quite wide — on Amazon it lists from $200 to $1000. Would any of you comment on the usefulness of Geiger for checking food, and what’s a good model/ price range? Thanks!

    • Undertow

      I have one (and am in CA also). While I do have an electrical engineering degree, my background is admittedly not in nuclear physics. However I’ve done a lot of reading on the subject both before and since Fukushima so I have some thoughts.

      Can a Geiger counter detect radiation in food? My answer is: yes and no. I’ll explain.

      Among the many isotopes released the ones that are most commonly referenced (Iodine 131 and Cesium 137) are beta particle emitters. If some amount of Cesium 137 is in your food the beta particle should be able to escape the food in order to be detectable. An alpha emitter (Plutonium) is a different story. If it is in the middle of your steak, buried a half inch down, the alpha particle will be blocked by the meat and won’t escape the steak.

      But the beta emitters are what are most likely to be bombarding the US.

      However, even though the beta particles may be detectable they may be very hard to detect above background radiation. You would likely need to monitor for some time to make a judgment regarding whether anything is really registering. So unless your food is very contaminated I’m not sure if it will easily show a verifiable reading. I have a piece of test material which emits a high amount of beta particles and the reading only registers if it is within several inches of the detector.

      My conclusion? Yes a Geiger counter is valuable to have, but probably not at today’s prices. I imagine prices will come down since the MSM is ignoring Fukushima.

      If you do get one I advise having two features on it. First is the ability to detect alpha radiation. Not all can. And of course it must be able to detect beta radiation! Avoid the cold war era large Victoreen units. They only detect gamma, and that is not the threat here. Second, having the ability to connect the unit to your PC is helpful. If you can graph the reading over time you can more easily measure something like food by looking for small changes in the reading…

    • Undertow

      (continued)

      …compared to background radiation when food is placed by the detector verses when nothing is by the detector. That said, the Images SI unit is one that looks good.

      If you are still willing to spend $300+ today I advise instead buying a water distiller. It will remove radioactive isotopes from your water, along with everything else in it. And you can use the pure water to clean fruits and vegetables. It can actually “leech” heavy metals out of vegetables. Having pure water is one of the best proactive measures you can take, and nothing is more pure than distilled water. I think this is more valuable today than a Geiger counter.

      But I’d still buy a Geiger counter eventually. I may be wrong but I think prices will come back down as long as the MSM ignores Fukushima for several more months.

    • Undertow

      See the comments from Rosalie Bertell in her letter on this page. She talks further about water.

      http://acehoffman.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-gores-japans-ox.html

  • Nuclear age has led to millions of fewer baby girls being born

    By Daily Mail Reporter

    Last updated at 9:09 AM on 6th June 2011

    Study claims nuclear radiation from bomb testing and power plant leaks hits female birthrate
    Japanese nuclear disaster could hit girl births in U.S.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1394553/Is-U-S-heading-baby-boy-boom-Japan-disaster-Study-finds-nuclear-radiation-results-millions-fewer-female-births-worldwide.html#ixzz1OVAWJDpp

  • xdrfox

    Dead birds clogged San Onofre’s rain gutters?
    June 6th, 2011
    We’d like to clear up this little thing about the 200 pounds of dead seagulls clogging drains atop an emergency diesel generator building at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station.
    Yes, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission told the Associated Press last month that 200 pounds of dead seagulls had clogged said drains, which led to water dripping onto a “non-safety related” motor control center in said emergency diesel generator building, where a tent had been erected to protect equipment.
    This report created great alarm among some San Onofre watchers. What the heck…
    http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2011/06/06/dead-birds-clogged-san-onofres-rain-gutters/84509/

  • Anthony

    Fukushima officials warn of radioactive water leaks into Pacific by June 20
    Part of: Nuclear meltdown in Japan

    Workers with Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) are struggling to move more than 100,000 tons of water that has pooled beneath the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant into temporary storage tanks or else, they say, there will be more radioactive spillage into the sea later this month. Charles Digges, 05/06-2011

    http://www.bellona.org/articles/articles_2011/warning_new_water_leaks

    • Anthony

      ****Vladimir Slivyak, co-chair of Russia’s Ecodefense agreed, and said the water containment issues was concerning, especially because of the time constraints involved.

      “Every time TEPCO announces trying to improve a situation under a deadline, it doesn’t work out. I don’t think they have the situation anywhere nearly under full control,” he said in an email interview Sunday.

      Slivyak suggested that more epic scale events could occur before the situation was considered contained.

      “I doubt it will be taken under control in the near future – there is a long road ahead and new discharges of water and radiation await us, even possibly more explosions,” he said.****

  • Anthony

    Emergency work still on at Fukushima
    Jun 5, 2011 18:24 Moscow Time

    The Fukushima nuclear power plant has started to test a new facility for purifying and deactivating radioactive water. It is planned that it will start working from June 15.

    This was revealed by the company which operates the Fukushima plant, “Tokyo Electric Power”.

    Using this facility will allow to reuse the water which has been used for cooling the reactors once again.

    Over 105 thousand tons of radioactive water have gathered in the lower premises of the Fukushima plant. The plant’s managers are afraid that somewhere on June 20, this water can break through into the ocean.

    http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/06/05/51308689.html

  • California Dreaming

    Dear Undertow –
    Thanks very much for the useful information on Geiger!! Re: water, I was going to get a RO filter since others on ENE said RO will take away radioactive particles. Is RO different from distilled water filter? Is there a particular brand of distilled water that I should get? Thanks!

    • Undertow

      RO should work as well. I went with a distiller since it removes almost everything in the water, and I was looking for a countertop unit rather than an in-line filter. The figures I’ve seen show that RO removes 90-95% of contaminants whereas distillers remove 99.9%. Both are good figures though! Many people don’t like distillers because it removes _everything_ including “good” minerals. But you can restore those with an additive (such as LiquiMins Concentrace).

      They use different methods. RO uses a membrane that filters out particles. Distillers boil the water into steam, which rises out of the water free of contamination. The steam is then cooled back into water into a different container, leaving behind the junk. Since the boiling point of heavy metals is so much higher than water, the heavy metals don’t convert to gas and travel up with the steam. A distiller can even desalinate salt water! You wouldn’t believe the crud left behind. It can make you paranoid of tap water.

      The distiller I have is the Waterwise 9000. Works well. They make other models and there are other companies that make them. And if you go the distiller route you do need to clean it every week or two by putting a solution into it to dissolve any sediment. Not hard. “Making water” has become part of our daily routine now. And it’s really nice having clean water.

      So, if spending any money I’d recommend a water cleaning setup rather than a Geiger counter at today’s prices.

  • Follow along with Fukushima researchers
    Amplify’d from deepseanews.com

    There’s a research cruise underway right now to study the impacts of radiation release from the Fukushima disaster in Japan, using the UNOLS/U. Hawaii ship R/V Kaimikai-O-Kanaloa. You can read the overview here and follow the at sea blog of the 17 researchers here. https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=68736 The cruise features scientists from Woods Hole Oceanographic, U. Tokyo, U. Hawaii, Oregon State U., Stony Brook University, UC Santa Cruz, U. Barcelona and Scripps Institute
    Read more at deepseanews.com … http://deepseanews.com/2011/06/follow-along-with-fukushima-researchers/

    http://kaylinq.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/follow-along-with-fukushima-researchers/

    See this Amp at http://bit.ly/kL6xGw

    Daily Updates
    https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=68736