Published: December 21st, 2011 at 8:55 pm ET
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Japan: Nuclear plant clean up to take decades, Al Jazeera English, Dec. 21, 2011:
CAPTION: Experts say that the total radiation leaked will eventually exceed the amounts released from the Chernobyl disaster
[...] Experts have said that the contamination from Fukushima is worse than Chernobyl. [...]
While four decades [to decommission Fukushima Daiichi] seems like a long time, some think that estimate is unrealistically short, given the scale of the nuclear disaster at the plant.
“It looks too optimistic for many people. But nobody knows,” said Katsuyoshi Ueno, a photographer in Tokyo.
“For the majority it is just out of imagination. Who knows about 2041 or 2051? A lot of people question ‘Will I be alive when it’s completed?’” [...]
*UPDATED* 20 Chernobyl comparisons in chronological order:
- Cesium-137 released at Fukushima in first four days could be 50 percent of Chernobyl total: Austria’s ZAMG
- Fukushima radioactive iodine and cesium emissions nearing Chernobyl levels — Carried far by the wind and absorbed readily by humans
- NHK: Fukushima probably exceeds Chernobyl and there is no end in sight (VIDEO)
- Expert: “Fukushima is much bigger than Chernobyl” — “Will cost much more” in human terms
- Guardian: Fukushima meltdown may be worse than Chernobyl… A MUST READ
- TEPCO: Fukushima still leaking radiation — Concerned it will exceed Chernobyl
- Japan’s nuclear commission reveals Fukushima may have emitted more radioactive material than official Chernobyl totals
- Japanese experts believe Fukushima crisis is more serious than Chernobyl
- “Japanese catastrophe is already more serious than Chernobyl” — Air force chief at Chernobyl shocked by poor response to Fukushima
- Nuclear expert: Fukushima “has turned even worse than it was in Chernobyl” — “Appears to have fit into the worst predicted scenario”
- Japan gov’t now admits 40% of total Chernobyl radiation was released in just one week at Fukushima — Still a “wide margin of error”
- Fukushima is already at or above Chernobyl levels and it continues to release significant amounts of radiation, says former U.S. Energy Dept. official
- 60 million curies of radiation released from Fukushima — 50 million curies at Chernobyl
- “They lied to us”: Radiation release comparable to Chernobyl — Total core meltdown in all 3 reactors — Worst industrial catastrophe in world history (CNN VIDEO)
- Independent: Why Fukushima is worse than Chernobyl; “Now the truth is coming out” — 72,000 times worse than Hiroshima & 1 million+ cancer deaths, says professor
- Former Japan leader says meltdown of Fukushima reactors ‘would’ have released several times as much radiation as Chernobyl — “Or even dozens of times”
- Professor: Fukushima certainly worse than Chernobyl — Similar quantities of radioactivity released, but more people affected in Japan disaster (VIDEO)
- Professor in Oregon Paper: Radiation from Fukushima exceeds Chernobyl — Now at level unknown to humans or machines — Human rights violations?
- *Flashback* Nuke expert who worked at IAEA: I can now speak freely — “Fukushima is as serious as Chernobyl”
- New NILU, ZAMG study: Release of radioactive xenon from Fukushima more than double Chernobyl — Largest in history — Started “immediately” after quake
And those gov’t estimates? “Obviously Worrying”: New estimate says Fukushima released “far more” radiation than Japan claims — Gov’t didn’t count what went over Pacific
Published: December 21st, 2011 at 8:55 pm ET
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sending...
good, Japanese are start real question, awake and living as human being.
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Wake UP PEOPLE. WHAT KIND OF CASTASTROPHE LASTS 50 years or even more??? Earthquake? Tsunami? Storms? TIME TO BAN BIG NUKE.
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Some of us may have been correct in our estimation that the government, since all news was very bad, said what they had to to calm the situation. The entire northern hemi will be scorched earth. Better they lie and let people figure it out for themselves in their own time.
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If they just figured this out now, I don’t think they are much of an expert. Most of us knew it was worse than Chernobyl from the first day…
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Fukushima release relative to the atomic testing fallout in the U.S. Is the rich data that i’m looking for…i’d like to think as most parents would that this current north hemi contamination pales by comparison…my children already got enough isotopes from their parents bodies in the preexiSting background levels. Ha, that’s so funny on the EPAs website: the amount of background radiation coming from test fallout being around 1%!
Now, today in Chernobyl, not ONE healthy kid left, NOT ONE according to local healthcare professionals.
We really need to pause here and commend the Russian people for their honesty and heroism in the way they dealt with their single meltdown.
The Japanese, however, SUCK at this!!! Albeit three meltthroughs and multiple outta control spent fuel pools, their govt/utility coop is a pack of murderous lying vipers and their people are so complacent and sheepish you’d think they were hopped up on fluoride too like the U.S.
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According to the TORCH report, the collective dose received by humanity from the nuclear testing of the 50s and 60s (US, USSR, UK, France) was 50 times that of Chernobyl- 30,000,000 person Sieverts.
The global population has doubled since the bomb test era, so 25 Chernobyls would equal the bomb tests now.
There’s probably more than 25 Chernobyls in the jet stream that hasn’t come down yet.
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PBS and many other news sources are STILL reporting what TEPCO spoon feeds them.. cold shut down, total radiation is 1/16 of Chernobyl, everything is stable and under control…HUH?
According to the following article, the total radiation released is 60 million curies, while Chernobyl only released 50 million Curies. http://enenews.com/60-million-curies-radiation-released-fukushima-50-million-curies-chernobyl
According to Arnie Gunderson, the DAILY radiation release from Fukushima is estimated at 13 TRILLION Bequerels per day. With plastic cover over unit #1 it is now down to 10 Trillion Bq per day, as long as filter is working well and taking out up to 90% of the total airborne radiation. This release is ONGOING, CONSTANT and NEVER ENDING.
This amounts to 100 Trillion Bq every ten days, 1,000 Trillion Bq every 100 days, and 3000 Trillion Bq every 300 days. This has been going on since the effort started to get this all to ‘cold shutdown’. Is this their definition of ‘cold shutdown’? When does this radiation and the radiation coming out in the form of radioactive water get added to the total above? NISA says NONE and NEVER.
So where is the filter material? Who is in charge of disposing of it or changing it? Where is the report saying how often they change it out? Who is measuring the total amount collected and verifying this, plus the types of radiation found? Where is this filter material anyway?http://fairewinds.com/content/update-gundersen-if-you-love-planet-dr-hellen-caldicott
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@agreenroad…Gundersen has been throwing me for a loop lately…
He claims those daily release data, alarms everyone about the Cascades in Washington, then doesn’t seem too concerned about the rest of the US, including the state in which we both reside.
My bad, though, he is the expert. However, he has acknowledged to me personally that anything may be arriving anytime here from FukU via jet stream precipitation, and i’ve had heightened Geiger reading in air as recently as Thanksgiving weekend…will Santa bring us alpha, beta or gmma this Christmas?
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This News is “imo.” not right,
F’Shima released much less Radiation than Chernobyl
and the majority was even blown to the Ocean!
Have a look:
http://static.ensi.ch/1312525799/tschernobyl_fukushima-1024×429.jpg
and the original Story in German:
http://www.ensi.ch/de/dossiers/fukushima-2/vergleich-zu-tschernobyl/die-auswirkungen-auf-die-umgebung/
Don’t misunderstand me here,
there will be increased Death and Sickness
but we should not overestimate the Impact
as well as not underestimate!
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(Hopefully others will leave more links below… time is short)
Radioactive Xenon release from Fukushima most ever, 2.5 times Chernobyl
Xenon known to cause dramatic increase in lung cancer
Bombards humans with very powerful x-rays
Turns into cesium
WATCH: http://enenews.com/just-in-harmless-xenon-cloud-is-known-to-cause-dramatic-increase-in-lung-cancer-bombards-people-with-gamma-rays-turns-into-cesium-xenon-release-at-fukushima-most-ever-2-5-times-chernoby
Also keep in mind the delay in evacuating residents by the Japan gov’t… plus the much higher population density of Japan:
From a public health point of view, the Soviet gov’t was much more responsible after Chernobyl than Japan after Fukushima
http://enenews.com/australia-professor-japanese-exposed-to-unconscionable-health-risks-govt-has-provided-public-with-misinformation
And remember that radiation detection equipment was not operating throughout the disaster area in the early days of the crisis, so the actual figures will never be known.
Oh yeah, most if not all studies looking into this matter have connections to the nuclear industry. And they still admit that Fukushima emitted around half the cesium-137 as Chernobyl.
And please don’t cite the government’s discredited figures that 1) only included radiation that went over Japan, 2) did not include release data from the most important period of the crisis, and 3) used detection equipment that was located in places likely to have lower readings, such as dozens of meters off the ground.
So next time you feel like claiming Fukushima “released much less Radiation than Chernobyl”, don’t.
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Why i should not do this when it is the Fact?
(at least the fact i have, and i am just a Human0815)
Show me a Capacity who is still saying that F’Shima released more Radiation than Chernobyl, i am scanning the Net very well and i can’t find one!
Until now we are more than lucky with the Release
of Radiation!
The Disaster Measurement was not okay but we have sources from 3′th Parties, of course dependent Universities but let us be free of Pre-Justice,
which showed reliable Data!
We should not compare Chernobyl with F’Shima
because this is diluting the much needed truth!
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You write: “Show me a Capacity who is still saying that F’Shima released more Radiation than Chernobyl”
Answer: See my comment above. The RADIOACTIVE Xenon release from Fukushima was the MOST EVER, 2.5 times Chernobyl.
You write: “Why i should not [claim Fukushima “released much less Radiation than Chernobyl”] when it is the Fact?”
Answer: Because you are wrong. It was not “much less” as you claim. Again see my comment above. Even studies by groups connected to the nuclear industry say Fuku CS-137 was over 40% of Chernobyl.
Please read what you are responding to before commenting again in the future.
Take care Human0815, this is the last response you’ll be getting from me.
Cesium-137 released at Fukushima in first four days could be 50 percent of Chernobyl total: Austria’s ZAMG
Fukushima radioactive iodine and cesium emissions nearing Chernobyl levels — Carried far by the wind and absorbed readily by humans
NHK: Fukushima probably exceeds Chernobyl and there is no end in sight (VIDEO)
Expert: “Fukushima is much bigger than Chernobyl” — “Will cost much more” in human terms
Guardian: Fukushima meltdown may be worse than Chernobyl… A MUST READ
TEPCO: Fukushima still leaking radiation — Concerned it will exceed Chernobyl
Japan’s nuclear commission reveals Fukushima may have emitted more radioactive material than official Chernobyl totals
Japanese experts believe Fukushima crisis is more serious than Chernobyl
“Japanese catastrophe is already more serious than Chernobyl” — Air force chief at Chernobyl shocked by poor response to Fukushima
Nuclear expert: Fukushima “has turned even worse than it was in Chernobyl” — “Appears to have fit into the worst predicted scenario”
Japan gov’t now admits 40% of total Chernobyl radiation was released in just one week at Fukushima — Still a “wide margin of error”
Fukushima is already at or above Chernobyl levels and it continues to release significant amounts of radiation, says former U.S. Energy Dept. official
60 million curies of radiation released from Fukushima — 50 million curies at Chernobyl
“They lied to us”: Radiation release comparable to Chernobyl — Total core meltdown in all 3 reactors — Worst industrial catastrophe in world history (CNN VIDEO)
Independent: Why Fukushima is worse than Chernobyl; “Now the truth is coming out” — 72,000 times worse than Hiroshima & 1 million+ cancer deaths, says professor
Former Japan leader says meltdown of Fukushima reactors ‘would’ have released several times as much radiation as Chernobyl — “Or even dozens of times”
Professor: Fukushima certainly worse than Chernobyl — Similar quantities of radioactivity released, but more people affected in Japan disaster (VIDEO)
Professor in Oregon Paper: Radiation from Fukushima exceeds Chernobyl — Now at level unknown to humans or machines — Human rights violations?
*Flashback* Nuke expert who worked at IAEA: I can now speak freely — “Fukushima is as serious as Chernobyl”
New NILU, ZAMG study: Release of radioactive xenon from Fukushima more than double Chernobyl — Largest in history — Started “immediately” after quake
“Obviously Worrying”: New estimate says Fukushima released “far more” radiation than Japan claims — Gov’t didn’t count what went over Pacific
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O Sumimasen, but you can’t threaten me
I am digging for the Truth, like we all do!
And we all get different Results but this is good for a Discussion, your Threat against me is a Threat against the Free Opinion,
you lop the Truth like the Japanese
lop the Bonsai Trees!
But okay, this is your Blog
and you dictate the House-Rules
PS: F’Shima is very bad but Chernobyls Impact is bigger!
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And one more aspect:
In Chernobyl there was an Explosion of the Core, there was no time for Evacuation
like we has had in F’Shima!
The big Release of Radiation happened in F’Shima from 13-19.03 and the big Majority pf the People in a 20Km Radius was already Evacuated!
The USSR needed Weeks to do the same,
they only evacuated the Workers-Town
because they knew what this is meaning!
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One more aspect…25,000 people were wiped off the planet…in the area of Fukushima…
The victim nunbers in the immediate areas can not be compared.
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There were people outside the initial evacuation zone exposed to at least 300 microeieverts per hour at one point. Many, many more were exposed to over 100 microeieverts per hour. The “decontamination” station as far away as Fukushima city was at 10 microsieverts per hour when they set up. And that’s just air gamma readings and says nothing about how much caesium/iodine etc was taken into the body.
Putting it in Russian Chernobyl units over 1 Roentgen per hour was recorded at the plant gates at one point and although the areas was evacuated this was not compulsory or enforced at the time.
Fukushima was a massive release and certainly not trivial compared to Chernobyl as you claim.
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@Admin – awesome list. Want to print all and send to our state Dept of Health head, who was sooooo scornful of public expressing health concerns early on, and all news outlets repeating ‘nowhere near as bad as Chernobyl’ over and over.
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Human0815,
The Chernobyl/Fukushima comparison map you posted the link to is a load of nonsense. See my link to Professor Hayakawa’s map in the thread.
Also ZAMG et al. put the total Caesium and Iodine releases (based on Test Ban Treaty sensors) as comparable with Chernobyl and well above the official Japanese figures. And they say in the report that they are likely still on the low side.
Then we have the French agency report that the total sea release was the largest in history and the report that the noble gas releases were the greatest in history. Yet you link to a nonsense report that says that Fukushima release was 1/10th Chernobyl when even TEPCO admits to more than that
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@ Hogweed
I didn’t know that Switzerland is known to provide “Nonsense”!
I known them as very reliable!
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The radiation map is nonsense. Go and try to reconcile it with known data for Prpyat air readings. As it is compared to air readings in Fukushima you must compare like with like.
Here is a link to Nature article on the new forensics.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111025/full/478435a.html
The disaster at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in March released far more radiation than the Japanese government has claimed. So concludes a study1 that combines radioactivity data from across the globe to estimate the scale and fate of emissions from the shattered plant.
The study also suggests that, contrary to government claims, pools used to store spent nuclear fuel played a significant part in the release of the long-lived environmental contaminant caesium-137, which could have been prevented by prompt action. The analysis has been posted online for open peer review by the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics.
…The new analysis also claims that the spent fuel being stored in the unit 4 pool emitted copious quantities of caesium-137. Japanese officials have maintained that virtually no radioactivity leaked from the pool. Yet Stohl’s model clearly shows that dousing the pool with water caused the plant’s caesium-137 emissions to drop markedly (see ‘Radiation crisis’). The finding implies that much of the fallout could have been prevented by flooding the pool earlier.
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excellent reliable banking system (pre 2008)and nice chocolate (pre chernobyl), probaly best to avoid the milk products there for a few more decades.. oh and the banking system too!
I known them as very reliable!/sarc?
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switzerland… land of the unbiased /sarc
just saying
http://www.iaea.org/inisnkm/nkm/aws/htgr/abstracts_c/index_32.html
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human, we are still getting iodine 131 from fukushima!! as well as c134 and 137, plus one or two other things!! from the azores to ireland, mojitor gaps as long as you can see on eurdep,,
the fallout can be traced by the timing of the switch offs as you move across europe and no peaks are described on the charts.. except for latvia for some reason… the iaea has not confirmed the source of the release! yet they have the uncensored data!!
they just dont want to admit it..
oh and the epa us is definately censoring the usa by manipulating the 23 or so monitors they have… harder to hide on the … havent counted.. loads of monitors stretching from russia to the azores… CRIIRAD said the usa gets it 10 times worse than the europe.. surely a perdentage of these particulates are falling on japanese soil too? every time there the wind direction changes..
in my view , as admin noted, the lack of information concerning levels is a problem.. but like eur dep mappimg, one can surmise that they dont want to test.. this leads to the next point
why doesnt one of the most advanced technology countries in the world not have a monitoring system as good as germanies! and why not a “busbylab” like criirads set up in france?? and as japan is one of the biggest bases outside the usa for the us military, why no info from them??
sometimes the lack of data can reveal the real data!!
not with statistics though, by using common sense
peace!
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@ arclight,
please don’t misunderstand me here,
i am not saying that F’Shima is a small Incident, it is “one of the biggest Catastrophes in the World”!
We have no time to run around like headless Chickens, we have to get over it, the Shock
kept us in a state where we was looking for a Father or Mother, but we know already that they are Criminals!
We can’t expect anything from the Government or Greenpeace but with some Data we should Work!
Now i want to wait until Tomorrow, i don’t want to write something that may get deleted/ Censored by the Adimment!
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thanks for stirring it up a bit human
got loads of really good links out off it!! you posed a valid question!! and got some valid feedback! the rest is up for people to decide!
the lack of official data and denial of ongoing releases being felt worldwide is unbelievable.. i know how busby felt over this last decade or so!! an unreal world of half truths and outright lies! petulant silence from the scientific community because of funding fears!! a real catch 22! the real question should be..
how to break this beast
peace human, bet admin likes you too!! err maybe? i appreciate your input, keep up the good work bro and stay safe!! the odd post in the rad forum would be appreciated too!
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That Chernobyl chart looks a load of nonsense. I can’t match the chart to known air-readings readings 1 month after as the chart claims to display. According to the chart Pripyat was over 1 millisievert per hour one month later. According to the IAEA it was less than 30 microsieverts per hour within a couple of weeks.
I think the Chernobyl chart may be the highest ground readings compared to a low-ball air reading for Fukushima. Thus it is intentionally deceptive.
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Here is Professor Hayakawa’s Fukushima-Chernobyl much more reasonable comparison map.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/12/professor-hayakawas-fukushima-chernobyl.html
It must be noted that for about 80% of the time period when the most significant releases occurred the wind was taking the fallout away from land. Only on the 15 March and about 23rd March did major plumes blow over land. If Japan had land to the east of the plant – well you can extend the ground fallout in your head and then compare to Chernobyl then…
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@Hogweed ,
i was reading the Nature Article (your Link)
and the Sources, they are saying the same like i do!
Chernobyl released more Radiation than F’Shima,
at least the doubled Amount in Caesium and CS
is not really long lasting compared to the Heavy Nuclide’s (Plutonium and Friends) we have seen and still see in Chernobyl!
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They didn’t provide any results for “plutonium and friends” because for some reason that info has not been released even though it was recorded.
Their estimate they say is pulled down by using values provided by Japan which they point out in the paper could take the release above Chernobyl if they had some “missing” Japanese data. It is also only the air release. Chernobyl didn’t have an ocean right next to it but Fukushima did so you have to add that in. See the French study.
And, as admin pointed out, the noble gas release was larger than Chernobyl. Putting all this together (and I still consider the Test Ban Treaty stuff an underestimate due to “missing” data) then Fukushima and Chernobyl were at a very minimum roughly comparable.
Do you remember on the 15Th March when TDPCO and Cabinet Secretary announced a fuel pool fire and CNN’s Anderson Cooper fled Japan after announcing it? TEPCO now pretends that was a “lube oil” fire. Both the report and the NRC point out that the ground plume to the northwest of the plant was laid down in that event. Yet now TEPCO officially can’t explain that plume and say nothing was released from any pool. That’s called a LIE.
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Ocean contamination! What concern for innocent people in the Pacific? They DRINK rain water contaminated by Japan’s Fukushima; eat fish contaminated by Japan’s Fukushima; breath air by Japan’s Fukushima –its criminal to say “majority was even blown to the Ocean”. And you say “misunderstand?” Can you explain what those peoples should face? Is Japan ready to assist them? Should they drink the rain water from Jet Stream clouds/rain? Is it safe for them to eat seafood coming from the contaminated area. Japan needs to do a lot more than what has been done. Contaminate the OCEANS! On purpose..
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Agreed.
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it might be worth pointing out that the sea silt is badly contaminated and it has been reported by the scientists who checked that the isotopes were in the sea silt and that the type of silt made it difficult for any natural decontamination.. andded that the currents keep any releases for longer than first thought, we can easily ppresume that through normal process “sea to land contamination” will occour..
basically over time the beach contamination will extend south with the sea silt drift..
so, there will need to be a thourough check of the coastal areas around and south of daichi! be a good idea to keep an eye on the more northern coastline from daichi too!!
and expect an increase when the snows melt too! for a few years, so rivers and resovoirs can be added! and resovoirs are really hard to clean once they are contaminated because of their design..
that should add a few square meters or two!! too!!
“For the majority it is just out of imagination. Who knows about 2041 or 2051? A lot of people question ‘Will I be alive when it’s completed”
if it is going to take 100 years to clear the corium in reactor 4 chernobyl, how can the japaneseiaeagov say 40 years!! bear in mind they are talking about re building the sarcofagus at chernobyl 26 years on… the chernobyl reactors 1 2 and 3 will be cleared in that sort off timeframe!! 40 years doesnt refer to the corium!!!
just my view
@amin
“Hopefully others will leave more links below… time is short”
i must be getting old.. what does this mean?????
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You can’t kill a whole ocean without having massive global ecological effects. Nobody knows what they will be, because it hasn’t happened before. Besides the obvious things like loss of the food source, I have mentioned oxygen depletion… the oceans serve as a carbon sink, will this continue? How about pH? Acid rain all over the earth? Who knows?
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mika nora is cute!! kind and compassioate, she should be voted as decembers “anti-nuke sweety pin up” here at enenews!!
that “time is short” thing is a bit freaky admin….!!
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ok .. to be a smart i will add that a link to the sea is the river!! couldnt resist!!
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The amount of nuclear material on site (Fukushima)..the original numbers..indicate the amount of radioactive emissions would/are greater than Chernobyl…
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Oh…it went into the sea…Japan is a culture bound to the sea.
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Citizen Epidemiology for the people of Japan – a Do-It-Yourself antidote to official denials.
Official reassurance is false
“officials continue to believe in the invalid risk model of the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP). ICRP massively underestimates the effects of radioactivity inside the body because its model is based on studies of Atom-bomb survivors at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. These studies are silent on the effects of internal radiation; they didn’t begin to collect data until 1950, and they excluded data collected earlier;
official sources are silent about alpha-emitting radionuclides like Uranium and Plutonium which are the types of internal contaminant for which the ICRP model is most inaccurate;
officials ignore the vast amount of evidence from Chernobyl and other exposure scenarios that shows far greater danger than ICRP predicts, affecting a wider range of diseases, occurring sooner than expected, and not conforming with the ICRP’s external dose model.
go to the homepage ant scroll down on the right till you get to..
Citizen Epidemiology for the people of Japan – a Do-It-Yourself antidote to official denials. LINK HERE
more info
http://www.llrc.org/index.html
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You think the Japanese get to see these maps Hogweed? If they see them, they must not believe. I’m worried living here next to the worlds largest Geysers project in N Cal. These power plants here make earthquakes that damage local homes. Plans just approved for another 350 million dollar expansion made necessary cause the NUKES are broken. We either cook ourselves in the name of energy or shake our selves to death in the name of Green energy. Energy needs to go people.
Let us be kind, one to another, for we are each of us together in our pain!
Occupy Nuclear Facilities, Now! ONF
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