Experts: Fukushima disaster victims to include up to 600,000 deaths, over 100,000 still-births, and over 100,000 children with genetic deformations

Published: December 27th, 2013 at 10:38 am ET
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Anna Sablina, cancer researcher and assistant professor at University of Leuven, Dec. 26, 2013: [...] in case of such high radioactive dose and exposure it obviously can increase a probability of cancer development especially thyroid cancer and leukemia. [...] We can always compare what people already know about the Chernobyl accident because it is a quite similar situation [to Fukushima] [...] the only problem in the Chernobyl area is a really increased rate of thyroid cancer especially for kids. More than 5,000 kids there diagnosed the thyroid cancer after Chernobyl, so I would say it probably could be the same case as in Japan. And for the rest it is a bit difficult to say [...] I think most of the time the only people who were directly involved in cleaning up and fixing the accident could have a really increased rate of cancer but for the rest it will be really difficult to say [...]

Health consequences of chronic internal contaminations by radionuclides (pdf), IRSN (Radio-protection agency of France), 2005: The IRSN then recommends then to initiate in-depth researches in order to improve the knowledge in the area of health consequences of chronic internal contaminations [...] not only focusing to cancers but also to the other types of effects and to all tissues. The main criticism to the current system is that it is mainly [...] relating to the probability for a cancer or severe hereditary effects to occur [and] does not incorporate other pathologies and, in fact, researches conducted during the past years in radiotoxicology basically focused to the occurrence of cancers while neglecting other effects. It is now important to fill the gaps in this area and to describe all biological and health effects that may occur after a chronic contamination by radionuclides.

Estimate of Consequences from the Fukushima Disaster, Jiřina Vitázková and Errico Cazzoli, Nordic PSA Conference (nuclear utilities in Finland and Sweden), September 2011 (emphasis added): The results with respect to health effects show that within 80 years the number of victims of the Fukushima disaster can be expected to be AT LEAST in the range of 10,000 to 300,000 people in terms of deaths due to infectious diseases, cardiovascular diseases, genetic diseases, and cancers; and about the same number of sicknesses/syndromes needing prolonged hospitalization and health care are expected to occur. This estimates accounts only for the population already living at the time of the accident. A comparable number of excess deaths and sicknesses may be expected in the population that will be born in the period. In addition to these, more than 100,000 excess still-births and a comparable or larger number of excess children born with genetic deformations (e.g. Down syndrome) are expected [...]

See also: Nuclear Expert: 1,000,000 cancers from Fukushima in Japan over next 20 years -- First thyroid, then lung, organ, brain, leukemia (VIDEO)

Published: December 27th, 2013 at 10:38 am ET
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198 comments

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198 comments to Experts: Fukushima disaster victims to include up to 600,000 deaths, over 100,000 still-births, and over 100,000 children with genetic deformations

  • VanneV anne

    Thyroid Cancers Surge Among Fukushima Youths
    12/23/2013
    “It seems US sailors aren't the only ones who three short years after the Fukushima disaster are being stricken by cancers and other radiation-induced diseases. For once, the media blackout surrounding the Japanese nuclear power plant tragedy appears to have crumbled, and at least a portion of the truth has been revealed. Hong Kong's SCMP reports that fifty-nine young people in Fukushima prefecture have been diagnosed with or are suspected of having thyroid cancer. Notably, all of newly diagnosed were younger than 18 at the time of the nuclear meltdown in the area in March 2011. They were identified in tests by the prefectural government, which covered 239,000 people by the end of September….”
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-23/thyroid-cancers-surge-among-young-fukushima


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    • OldFool

      It looks like Arnie Gundersen's first initial statement back in March 2011 was 100% spot-on – Fukushima will be the Greatest industrial accident in history. I am sure that these body count estimates will be seen 20 years from now as incredibly, woefully underestimated. We should appreciate it that the Japanese at least listened to him to the point of accelerating their spent fuel rod removals, and building a more solid enclosure around Unit 4 to remove the spent fuel rods more quickly, but it is too bad they were too cheapskate to dig the zeolite trench he strongly recommended to block the radioactive ground water leaks from all the units. The Japanese Government should hire him as a consultant with a salary, and not just selectively rip-off his ideas, as if he was just another Gaijin to be plucked.


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      • Ontological Ontological

        AG did refer to Fukushima as "Chernobyl on steroids" back at the start. Really now, I even think that comment was an inadvertent down play compared to the reality of this mess! Even he was thrown by the distance the effects would actually go. So much has happened since his day of discovery. Things were bad enough when he decided to whistle blow.
        Now due to the deaf ears of a bunch of congressional idiots, his statements are still mute, as are Ron Paul, and Bernie Sanders. When the hell will these majestic pieces of congressional crap be thrown in the very same ocean they destroyed! There are a lot of sharks etc. out there would be glad to finally eat. Without congress, and CEO's the world would still be 12 cpm total beta background average.


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  • Gradius

    See? This shows clearly how many times worse it is in respect to Chernobyl.

    We can already say over 500K died there so far. For comparison it took 27 years to kill a million in Chernobyl.


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  • jec jec

    And this does not take into consideration the ONGOING radiation emissions into the air/land/sea. What about increases from THAT? For the past three years.


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  • Gradius

    @jec: I see no point really. This is the LAST generation, PERIOD. We're done for. I know is hard to believe, it took me almost a year to see the whole picture as it is. I'm trying the best I can now, I know we don't have much time left. 20 years perhaps?


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  • Questionit

    Do not believe these numbers, instead realize that they know the effects will be so great that these are the smallest numbers that anyone will be deceived by in a year or so.

    I do not know the background, political or industry relationships of these people. Perhaps they are honest but we have seen little of that. Most likely they wish to contain the public perceptions of danger once the deaths and cancers increase at an exponential rate. If you contain it by saying a million or 100,000 you can deceive by throwing all the bodies into that pot you've created. At some point the deaths increase too fast for the public to believe anymore but putting out these low ball numbers buys them time.

    I'll say it again. Immediately after the accident Arnie Gundersen advised people on the west coast NOT to take iodine tablets. WHY did he minimize the dangers? Due to his education he cannot be that incompetent, he knew what he was doing to those people. How many thyroid cancers could have been prevented on the west coast if people had taken precautions at that time? Gundersen will not admit the coriums are out of containment, not only does he represent them as being within the building but he will not admit they have breached secondary containment. Arnie "Minimizer in Chief" Gundersen is what at best "controlled opposition", or worst. I say worse.


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    • VanneV anne

      You can't take potassium iodide every day for your lifetime. Fukushima has a new criticality all the time. You can use some forms of iodine every day. And I see you don't have a limk to show that Arnie have any advice on potassium iodide anyway. All he has ever said is that there hot particles (which doesn't include radioactive iodine) and that dust in your house is radioactive.


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      • VanneV anne

        I trying to research if radioactive iodine is a hot particle or not:

        “The Committee Examining Radiation Risks of Internal Emitters (CERRIE), established by the UK Government, carried out a 3-year-long independent expert review into the health risks of internal emitters (i.e., hot particles) and published its findings in 2003. The study failed to reach consensus, but the conclusion of the majority of its members was that the current ICRP risk model, despite being largely derived from studies of survivors of external radiation, adequately estimates the risk of hot particles, and that any differences between internal and external radiation are adequately accommodated by the established parameters in physiological models (relative biological effectiveness, kinetic factors); i.e., that internal radiation does not seem to be significantly more dangerous than an equal amount of externally-delivered radiation. However, they noted significant levels of uncertainty regarding dose estimates for internal emitters, especially regarding less common radionuclides such as 239Pu and 241Am, and even more common ones such as 90Sr.[5] Two of the twelve members disagreed with the overall findings, notably Christopher Busby who advocates controversial physico-biological mechanisms such as Second Event Theory and Photoelectric Effect Theory, by which he believes the danger of ingested particles could be greatly enhanced….”
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_particle


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        • Questionit

          There was no need to take iodine long term. Everyone knows that. Others please correct me if I'm wrong. Radioactive iodine has a very short life span, people on the west coast only needed to take the tablets for about a month to avoid the cancers. Arnie Gundersen knows that and STILL advised these people not to take it.

          You are arguing that the taking of iodine immediately after an event does not protect the thyroid from the radioactive iodine released. WHY!!? Why would you try to make that argument? I thought this was well known.

          Am I incorrect here? Does the dangers from a release of radioactive iodine not dissipate relatively quickly due to a short lifespan, does taking the iodine tablets not protect from those danger, does radioactive iodine not attack the thyroid and cause cancer?

          Are you protecting Arnie at all cost or what is it?

          If I can find the link where Arnie admits to what he did will you admit that Arnie Gundersen is a phoney and betrayed those who listened to him? Will you admit that Gundersen increased the number of cancers to be suffered by those who took his advice


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          • VanneV anne

            I didn't argue that at all. You put words into my mouth and Arnie's mouth. You have no citation that Arnie told people not to take potassium iodide. And I certainly never give out medical advice. I never gave out any medical information at the time of Fukushima. This website never existed until some time after the accident.

            Blame someone else. Can you honestly say that you did not support nuclear energy at the time of the Fukushima accident?


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            • Questionit

              Again, if I can find the citation where Arnie admits telling all those people not to take the tablets does that not expose him as a phoney and deceiver.

              Will you not admit the tablets help protect the thyroid from cancers? And thus Arnie "Minimizer in Chief" Gundersen served the industry and not the people of the west coast.

              And yes, I can say I have never supported nuclear energy. You may not be aware of this but you do not need to wait for the plant to open to know it's criminal. Every plant has been a pit of cost overruns and usually there are one or two inspectors, often welding inspectors, who expose faked inspections and faulty work. The inspectors are then threatened, homes and vehicles attacked and they seem to be ruined as they fade away. Never read a follow up on them 10 yrs later.


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            • Questionit

              Anne – you are ARNIE!
              Just post as yourself, cats out of the bag now.

              So Arnie, Where are the coriums?


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              • Socrates

                Questionit,

                Arnie admits that he advised people not to take K I -Potassium Iodine after 3-11. That advice was based on government figures, official advisements from the Centers for Disease Control, and computer models.

                You seem to believe that a nuclear engineer gives medical advice. That is illegal. KIDS is contraindicated for many patients.

                Arnie also has said that the cores are ex vessel – out of the vessel, I.e., melt-outs – melt- throughs.

                I have listened to everyone of his interviews.

                I fail to understand you repeated criticisms of Arnie. He is the first to admit that he is wrong. But you seem to be a broken record and refuse to argue logically.

                The coriums are melting through the concrete into the mudstone and into the aquifer. There is a harder formation below but an aquifer delivers cooling water to the lava tubes that are elephant feet with fingers. #3 core blew upwards into the atmosphere.

                Arnie has spelled this all out. Where would the corium be in your opinion?


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                • Questionit

                  Arnie represents himself as an expert on the dangers and effects of reactors. How can he not know that radioactive iodine results from an event such as this, and then not know how it causes cancer in peoples thyroids. If he doesn't even know that he is less educated on this than the average poster here. The computer models showed it was coming here.

                  You keep saying he cannot advise someone to take iodine BUT he DID advise people NOT to take iodine. He did advise people, he has admitted that he advised them not to take it. You say by doing so he committed an illegal act.

                  I have looked for Gundersens statements on location of the corium and cannot find them. Please link where he finally admits the coriums are out of containment and on the basement floor or in the ground. A few of us have looked and cannot find where he has said the coriums have broken containment.

                  Arnie has training in nuclear engineering but does he have a professional engineers license or a license for a commercial power reactor. (SRO?) The license he likes to reference is from 1971 for a 100 watt teaching lab unit when he was lab assistant or TA. One individual pointed out there were 40 current undergrads at the college with that teaching lab license.

                  It is not helpful to let ourselves be lead by scammers.


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                  • Socrates

                    He knows that there was a plume of Iodine 131.

                    He qualifies as an expert to testify in court as a nuclear engineer.

                    Telling people not to take KI if their physician prescribed it would be different.

                    He talked of melt-outs and ex vessel and "elephant's foot." He spoke of holes in the bottom of the reactor vessel. Has he stated that the corium burned through the concrete? How knows whether it did? I assume it did.

                    You believe he is covering up the fact that the corium (s) burned through the concrete containment to protect the nuclear industry?

                    There has been a cover up by TEPCO/governments. You know, anything is possible. Arnie could be saying to corium (s) are in the containment but I do not think so. He assumes that the corium(s) burned through but does not know.

                    His licensure is not important. He has the education and experience. He has visited Fukushima three times. I just do not understand the basis for your attacks on him since most of your points are irrelevant or immaterial or collateral. Be led by whomever. I follow nobody but my own logic. Reject what (whomever) ever you wish.


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                    • Questionit

                      He claims to be an expert on the dangers of a nuclear accident but does not even know radioactive iodine happens in the initial event? Something so simple? He would know if he is competent.

                      He advised people NOT to take iodine to protect their thyroids. There is no excuse for that. He cannot be that ignorant and still be who he claims. You excused him saying giving advice on taking iodine would be illegal now you switch. Those who listened to him did not take precautions they should have taken.

                      If he does not know the connection on this simple item then he is not competent to speak about any health impacts from radiation, you cannot have it both ways.

                      Gundersen will not address the corium locations. That is the biggest question right now. You claim he talked of melt outs but cannot link where he ever did so. He avoids the most important issue, where are the coriums.

                      His licensure is important. He claims to have a critical reactor license and uses that to show what an expert he is. Turns out it is a license to operate a tiny lab reactor that puts out 100 watts as a lab assistant or teacher assistant. Undergraduates even get those. It has no commercial application. This speaks to his ethics and true expertise.

                      He does not appear to be a professional engineer.


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                  • Arnie is a nuclear engineer, not a health physicist. Are you laboring under the misapprehension that nuclear engineers – consultants on design and construction of nuclear-related systems, sometimes project overseers – are physicists and not engineers? Physicists in addition to being engineers? Physicists by osmosis because the word "nuclear" is in their degree title?


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                    • Questionit

                      If Gundersen is so ignorant about the health effects of radiation that he is not even aware of the connection between radioactive iodine and thyroid cancer and problems then Arnie Gundersen is not qualified to speak about any other tie between radiation and health effects.

                      It's really that simple. You and Socrates are saying he is only qualified to speak about the design of reactors. Then he also is not qualified to testify or give interviews about any health effects or dangers.


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                    • Garbage. Gundersen is indeed qualified to give interviews about what is or may be happening at any of the plants at Daiichi, based on what is known and released to the public about conditions at Daiichi. He is also qualified to iterate the known health effects of radioisotopes known or likely to be released into the air or water by the conditions of the plants at Daiichi.

                      He is not qualified to advise the public to take KI pills because "the governments and TEPCO are lying" about conditions at Daiichi. To do so would irreparably damage his credibility. People can do what they want, look up the countermeasures, and take them for themselves if they believe governments and industry are lying to them. Nobody in their right mind is going to give medical advice they aren't qualified to give, only to make themselves liable for any damage done.

                      Not everybody is as stupid as you are trying to portray. This kind of 'divide and conquer' propaganda tactic is so old it's rusted all the way through.


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                • KiloCharley KiloCharley

                  Socrates, Please provide sources of your information. Thanks,


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                  • Socrates

                    KiloCharlie,

                    Arnie attacked me at one point! But the burden is on you to discredit him. I cannot prove a negative to two Doubting Thomases.

                    It is good to question self – appointed experts. The corium (s) except to the extent that #3 blew upwards are under ground in the aquifer with water running over them and into the sea. I just do not understand how this bad news could be hidden by Arnie. I do not understand what you are saying. Is he saying that the corium (s) are still in containment? Please post where he says that.


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              • VanneV anne

                In 2011, some bloggers were accusing me of being a consortium of lots of people. But there is only me. I've been accused of being the mistress of Joseph Farrell, but I don't know the man and consider the accusation to be an insult.

                Is it so hard for you to believe that a woman is intelligent? I took an online free class on Nuclear Engineering last year through coursera. My father worked at Rocketdyne during the 50s and 60s. My mother was descended from a well-known mathematical genius. I am now taking upper division classes in math on coursera now.

                I never worked in the nuclear industry and hated the nuclear industry from day one. I was born before nuclear testing ruined people's IQs and went to college before any one used drugs, so never came into contact with that culture.

                I consider myself with a higher IQ than most people. Are you working for Tavistock and phishing? I had someone in the public library come up and talk to me yesterday. It was weird because I am very old and not attractive. I hope no one murders me, but I will surrender without a fight, because I am a pacifist.

                I am sure Arnie would never spend the time on the internet and at the hours of the night I am commenting. He has better things to do with his time. I have no qualifications to testify in court. And I spend the time I do on this website because I am disabled and I don't want to watch my children dying of cancer or anything else.


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            • Questionit

              Anne, this is from Socrates who is a big Gundersen supporter.

              "Arnie admits that he advised people not to take K I -Potassium Iodine after 3-11."

              Does that help you see Arnie a little better. He deceived those people. That is a fact. You may not like it but it is fact.


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          • VanneV anne

            Anyone who blindly follows the advice of anyone is not thinking rationally. Why would anyone follow non-existent advice from someone who is not a medical physician?

            Personally, I've been taking iodine in the form of seaweed every day since 1989 when I almost died of cancer. I now buy my seaweed from Maine or Iceland. I'm sure it is radioactive. The nuclear industry has destroyed all the oceans and all the air and all the land and all the water on the planet. I don't advise anyone to follow my personal example.

            Blaming others for your own mistakes won't help you. Why don't you go to a lawyer and see if you can sue Arnie? Why don't you go to a lawyer and see if you can sue the government or the military or the nuclear industry?

            Please focus your attacks on the nuclear industry which is killing everyone. It is the use of nuclear weapons and nuclear energy which is killing everyone. You can go back and see when enenews.com first began and when Arnie's first article on Fukushima was. You can read Dr. Brownstein's book on iodine.

            You can blame Arnie's conservative attitude on the legal system. He would have been sued and discredited if he said how bad Fukushima is. With the ban of information in Japan, it is difficult for anyone to know the state of any of the damaged reactors in Japan (perhaps all 54) and the damage to their reprocessing facilities.

            Rely on yourself and go to the source: nuclear energy.


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            • Socrates

              If he lost his thyroid or does not know where coriums go, I'd understand.

              Most physicians I asked laughed. I finally located some kelp and ate that.

              Pregnant women needed iodine for fetal brain development.

              The constant repetition or assertion that an engineer should override CDC positions on public health issues is interesting. But whether the coriums are has been stated by Arnie repeatedly.


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            • Questionit

              I would advise others to read this discussion.
              Anne is actually Arnie Gundersen.

              Read all the excuses, deflections, misdirection etc. made for Gundersen and his mistakes and failure to properly evaluate what was occurring.

              Gundersen is not what he is made out to be. Research his actual backgound as well. He is not helping us.

              You can feel the dirt (keeping it clean).


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              • VanneV anne

                I am not Arnie Gunderson. I am a great grandmother with 5 university degrees including 2 masters' degrees and a Ph.D. I've never met Mr. Gundersen or his wife.

                I don't always agree with Arnie and have criticized some of his views, but then someone has explained to me why my criticism is unjust.

                Why criticize someone who is anti-Nuke? No matter what Mr. Gundersen says or not, no one who knows the truth will ever be for nuclear energy. Mr. Gundersen knows much more about nuclear energy than I do or ever will know. He is just one nuclear engineer who is speaking out. There are many others.


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                • VanneV anne

                  He has friends and colleagues who speak for him. Were you to silence me, others would speak out.


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                • artika rama

                  anne ,,people criticise arnie for being too soft and not enough antinuke activist ,, i dont see it that way ,, in my opinion he is just being cautious of ONLY giving the info that he KNOWS ARE FACTS ,, he is not so much into assumptions ,, he is just trying to be scientific in his methods , in the way that if you dont know it , you cant say it ,, I think that makes him sound like he is not so much of antinuke . In my opinion he is trying to give the facts without any bias. Just trying to present the facts as he knows .
                  We cannot deny the work he has done to inform the whole world about the fukushima disaster . I respect that .


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                • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                  Criticism of others in the field..is quite frequent in the science field.
                  There is difference between what Gundersen considers the condition.. and some of us consider to be the condition.
                  (His opinion is?)

                  This difference is important..
                  How can there be a discussion about the location of the corium…if one party won't even mention it?

                  PS..This is an open statement and not looking for response.


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                  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                    PS.. I'm not concerned with Gundersen's credibility..
                    My concern is whether he is telling the truth..
                    THE WHOLE TRUTH.
                    Is he..? Can't?
                    (walk him back..walk him back)


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                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      Why is this so hard to understand?..
                      Oh..nevermind..


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                    • "TRUTH" as to what? Arnie Gundersen doesn't know where the coriums are any more than you do. He has no access to nuclear governments' orbital detectors or IAEA's direct links to those or to Japan/TEPCO gamma/neutron detectors if they've bothered to triangulate.

                      Why do people here insist that he must be a raging doomsayer just like the host of pseudonymous and technologically ignorant live-ins here are? Why does he have to destroy credibility earned through a lifetime career of nuclear engineering just to make the "OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!" reactionaries here happy?

                      Makes zero sense to me, but then again, lots of things make zero sense to me these days… §;o)


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                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      Ok.. let's place the opinions even on the board.
                      Arnie says the corium is where?
                      (?)
                      At least I speculate!

                      This is an on-going geological situation ..
                      Which is of my interest.

                      I have never said ..everyone is going to die.
                      I have made no speculations in that manner what-so-ever.
                      Never will..

                      (I can't help it.. if 'unpleasantness' of condition'..is read 'between the lines'.)


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                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Yes, of course, there really is no reason for us all to panic, since Nuclear Radiation Contamination always does its own thing when/where ever it is let loose around the planet/world… :(
                      https://www.google.com/#q=DU+deformities+cancers+Iraq

                      I do not think any of this Nuclear Technology is a positive experience for any biological life. :(

                      Stupid is as Stupid does…


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                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Here is a positive quote from Nuclear Radiation DU article..:(

                      "She said it's common now in Fallujah for newborns to come out with massive multiple systemic defects, immune problems, massive central nervous system problems, massive heart problems, skeletal disorders, babies being born with two heads, babies being born with half of their internal organs outside of their bodies, cyclops babies literally with one eye — really, really, really horrific nightmarish types of birth defects."
                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20/iraq-war-anniversary-birth-defects-cancer_n_2917701.html


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                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      No reason to panic.

                      HORRIFIC CHERNOBYL MUTANTS ** WARNING ** SHOCKING **

                      "In 1992, at severe risque to his own safety, renegade Ukrainian scientist, Petsik Yevtushok, smuggled shocking photos of human foetal mutations out of a Soviet DNA Lab and brought them to attention of World Health Organization and U.N.'s DNA Mutation Authority. Viewer discretion is advised!"

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr6XGrxGtJM


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                    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

                      PS.. Posted to youtube.. April 28 2013


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                    • Well, I'll certainly speculate too! Because 1) I'm not Arnie and have no public credibility to be careful of, 2) I am qualified to opine all day about the self-serving – and seriously dangerous – lies of the nuclear industry and its pet governments, and 3) I'm also qualified to talk about the dangers of radionuclides to biological tissues.

                      Though that hasn't much to do with corium flows. Those are in the sub-torus level basements and below because those foundations are trashed and a river runs through them on its way to the sea. It takes ~16 hours from total LOCA/station blackout with no EDGs to melt-through to drywell. It takes approximately another 16 hours for the mass to melt through the containment base. But at Daiichi at least two of the flows went right on out the drywell door to melt through the much less substantial metal closures on the torus downcomers, and like any other liquid corium will always seek the path of least resistance.

                      Once through the downcomers and/or torus proper, the corium still flowing (there's lots of water in those "supression pools") went on down the basement drains. Where its surface area of presented radionuclides is constantly being bathed by that river, and washed on out. Some of the seeps of discharge being well beyond the entirely inadequate seawalls and (haha) silt fences.


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              • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                you're undermining, Questionit, what (if any) credibility you may have with others out here, with such inanities. anne and I differ on many issues, but that won't prevent me from testifying to her personal integrity. From day one, she's done her best to inform on the issues. Fixating on Gundersen as means of undermining the character of others, borders on the suspicious…


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                • Socrates

                  Anne is NOT Arnie.

                  I know Arnie and Maggie. The content of what they (anne and Arnie) say is often very different. The syntax of the language is very different.

                  There is no basis for that assertion at all. "What-iffers" waste time because they do not think logically.

                  Show us logically why anne is Arnie and Arnie knows where the corium (s) actually are. Provide a potential motive for why he would do this. Explain why other experts are not "on to him."

                  Anyone could sell out. Anything is possible. But several of your assertions are either illogical or highly improbable in my opinion.


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                • Meh. Doesn't "border on" suspicious, it's all the way to glaring prop-manipulation tactic. SOP in the nuke PR toolkit and entirely obvious to anyone with eyes to see.


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          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Questionit, reports are coming out of Japan that radioactive iodine is still being found locally. This would indicate the reactors or SFP's are still emitting fission products. Some of that gets picked up on the air currents, jet stream, and is transported.

            So yes, it's probably a great idea to take a small, safe dose of iodine daily (like nascent iodine or a safe dose of Lugol's solution, etc.), or to consume brown kelps daily.

            I'm with Anne on this one. Bought Atlantic brown kelps right after 3/11, in bulk. She's right, these are probably radioactive, but in all probability lower levels of contamination than what's coming out of the Pacific, now.

            Hoping you stay well, and take reasonable measures to protect yourself and your loved ones.


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          • pnacistreason

            I don't know if Arnie did or didn't make any public statement to the effect that people on the West Coast shouldn't take iodine tablets – shortly after the crisis started – but even if he did make such a statement, that doesn't mean he's incompetent; rather, it means he's not a psychic, and therefore couldn't have immediately known how bad the situation was…when TEPCO and their enablers in "government" were apparently lying about everything.

            Moreover, let's say for the sake of argument that he recommended that they take iodine. Where would all the millions of people potentially at risk of exposure have gotten the iodine tablets on such short notice?


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            • Questionit

              It does mean he is incompetent. Anyone with the expertise he professes to have and considering he runs an expert testimony business related to nuclear safety, would know radioactive iodine results from an event such as this.
              He does not need to figure out where someone will get the tablets, he needs to be competent enough to be aware of what an event results in so he can make others aware.

              So many excuses for Arnie. If he is as inept as these excuses show him to be he is worthless when evaluating an event or results of an event.


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              • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                Questionit, I have followed some of what you have written, and I have skimmed a little of what it is you have been saying and I keep seeing you mentioning/going after Arnie trying to make him somehow not an expert?

                Is that what I am picking up from you? Really?

                I have never followed all of Arnie and/or what he has stated, but yes I did all my own research on Nuclear prior to making any of my comments here. I appreciate what Arnie does and could care less if he is an expert or not. He is correct on most all of what he states and all he states is all over the web and is easily documented in many scientific journals and papers.

                I am starting to struggle with what your purpose is here, since I do not see you personally bringing any thing to this table of truth.

                Just why are you here and what is it that you are bringing to this forum?


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              • pnacistreason

                You're being dishonest. The issue is not whether or not nuclear fission releases iodine 131; rather, the issue is: Given the information (or lack of information) in the public domain at the time – as to the severity of the situation at Fukushima – was it unreasonable to suggest that people thousands of miles away on the West Coast of the U.S. didn't need to take iodine pills?

                Obviously, his position at the time (if that was his position) was not unreasonable given the fact that Tepco and its "government" enablers were withholding information.

                Lastly, as a practical matter, what good would it have done to suggest that everyone start taking iodine pills when there were none available in the first place?


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        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Anne, isn't any isotope, being radioactive or while it is unstable, technically "hot" ?

          Here are a couple of definitions (you've got me thinking):

          http://health.phys.iit.edu/archives/2010-May/028745.html

          Above is the "Health Physics" view

          And from Wikipedia, considers potential damage inside the human body:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_particle

          IMO the real question is, are ALL isotopes actually hot particles or potential hot particles under the definition above? Or restricted to certain isotopes. I have the impression if it can do damage inside the body, it is a "hot" particle, whether ingested, inhaled, etc.


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        • IAEA, ICRP And UNSCEAR Are All Staffed By The Same Pro Nuclear Industry Apologists; via @AGreenRoad
          http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2014/04/iaea-icrp-and-unscear-are-all-staffed.html


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      • VanneV anne

        BY0000264 Hot Particle Factor in Radiation Dose Formation after the Chernobyl Accident http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/31/056/31056893.pdf


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      • We Not They Finally

        Well, you actually CAN take potassium iodide ongoing. Iodoral (available at compounding pharmacies) is an excellent product. When my husband, who already had a greatly weakened thyroid, had his TSH readings soar to 24 following the initial plume (3-4 is normal), he went on Iodoral, and since has normal readings and also has been able to come off the synthetic thyroid hormones permanently.

        We also have a friend who just had thyroid removed due to a recent, rapidly-developing cancer. And we know that there is fissioning ongoing, so we are still up against I-131.

        Side effects of continual iodine ingestion? Haven't seen any, but am open to research.


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    • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

      I agree..these are low estimates..

      A candy coating of the truth.


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  • tbg

    Thats Really the worst thing, I think, the fact that No One accounts for the past 1000 (or I guess 970-ish days) total days of releases.

    So all these "we are Fuked" stories are actually much worse since Tepco says that the releases stopped in April 2011, so that's what all scientific studies seem to have to assume, and no one has the balls or brains to do any other testing for themselves.

    Better to spend 2 years and a couple million dollars doing an advanced particle simulation that takes into account water, waves, currents, temperatures, gravity, depth and a bunch of other stupid parameters Im too dumb to know about. Hmm, so you say the waters gonna bring it here. No Shit Sherlock, I would have told them that for a six pack of Woodchuck.

    Toe The Line Academic Sheeple, don't think because you have 2 or 3 degrees or tenure you have permission to think for yourselves. So we get "Dont worry, our supercomputer says everything is going to be ok."


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    • digitalaardvarks

      helen caldicott said millions if not billions will die just based on the initial even on 2011.


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      • We Not They Finally

        You see, that's the thing. No one has ANY credible estimate even on releases ongoing and into the future since THEY DON'T SEEM TO HAVE A CLUE HOW TO STOP IT. Much less an estimate on the havoc it causes ongoing and will be causing into the future. Even the above is only an estimate of HUMAN deaths, and apparently only from direct exposure to emissions. Billions of organisms in the food chain are already messed up and passing the damage on through bio-accumulation and bio-magnification.

        Very few risk EXPONENTIAL estimates, because then we are immediately talking about an ELE, not something we can measure, much less control.


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    • Mark Wonclunker

      In my opinion, there is no need for simulations any more. Ships and aircraft proceeding North and South across the Pacific 500 miles off the PNW can get all the real-time samples from water and air that are necessary.

      TPTB are probably doing it anyway, just not giving the results.


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      • Bones Bones

        You are spot on. We know for a fact the government uses Boeings for all types of military and scientific research programs. All those plans could easily be fitted with radiation monitiors, like scintillation counters for the air flow, and daily maps could be made. I'm sure the government could even use satellites to figure out the rad levels all over the pacific and the states. The use satellites that detect radiation bursts for nuclear bombs, no? Let alone our nuclear subs, and nuclear powered craft.


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        • jec jec

          Yes, Bones right on, the US govenment has satellites to track radiation. So far, we have not seen the results of any scanning here in USA or overseas in Japan or ??? And the EPA has monitoring systems..which they turn off and on to portray a political view..all is fine. I really just want to see the DATA..let ME make my own decisions..am afraid the OBAMAcrats are busy painting a rosy picture..a very false picture if the data we see off an on by accident is correct..
          150 CPM from ocean in N. California, spells of very high radation from netc sites, and sudden views of high data on EPA sites which suddenly get shut down. Go figure..


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          • We Not They Finally

            Yes. It's also unbelievable that the radiation on the USS Ronald Reagan was somehow not being tracked at all.

            But as for 150CPM, here in Albuquerque, in recent days it has spiked as high as 900 CPM! So 150 CPM may look bad, but 900 CPM may be "run for your lives." We are trying to move out of here, but that's not right away. We just wonder what is happening in the cities where you look them up on Radnet and there is just a blank screen, like Seattle.

            We are just hoping that temporary spikes are not as deadly as sustained astronomically high radiation. But it's still scary. Especially since most damage doesn't show up right away. We are just tired a lot. And I started to get headaches every time I was dusting.


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        • Ontological Ontological

          They have had all these toys on their aircraft and more for govt. use only. We get to pay for all this stuff and never even know what were paying for! Gulf War proved that. Most of this info WAS available before May of 2011 when they shut down almost every way to monitor. Temps were 8700F when they shut down the thermal imagery satellite data just a few days after the 100% atmospheric vaporizations. I think meltdown/melt through was a cover, same as "the rods were partially melted, but were all in cold shutdown now, smile everyone smiles, the world is saved".


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  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

    up to 600,000 deaths from fukushima? Lets check the logic of experts everywhere with a simple experiment; take a fish pond and start adding poison. When some fish start to die, are the others perfectly healthy? Keep adding this poison of 10s of thousands of years half life into the pond until there is enough to kill every fish 100s of times over. Would you estimate only 1 in 10,000 will become ill and die, leaving the others perfectly healthy?

    As everyone knows, the web of life is interconnected. Poison the pond and everything becomes poisoned to some degree. Add enough and everything goes belly up. Thats the mass die off tipping point. If a person does not realize this, can he/she be called an expert, regardless of educational title?

    Dr. Genn Saji calculated 2,649 PBq for strontium-89 and 171 PBq for strontium-90.

    Pavel P. Povinec et al have said that at 1 PBq, there has been 10,000 to 100,000 x increased radiostrontium levels on the marine environment

    We read that plankton can bioaccumulate fallout over 10,000 times, dolphins and seals over 300 times.


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    ONGOING FOREVER – CANCERS NEVER-ENDING

    As long as radiation leaks.


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  • mhocker10

    I read these for my continued benefit, but the world as we know it is gone. Japans massive die-off will continue until the numbers spike to incredible numbers. I am expecting Millions to die in Japan, and Millions more on our Western Coast. In another year or so, the Pacific will have it's one last gasp before finally becoming a dead sea.

    Live life to the fullest, Love like you've never loved before and die with dignity.


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    • Bones Bones

      I think Japan will last maybe another decade, two at most, and then it will no longer be viable. I don't see a huge quick collapse rather a slow dying out of the culture. For the West Coast I would think massive health problems, cancers, etc. tons of birth related problems all types of stuff. I would think in numbers triple we have now. I don't think everyone will die off, but sickness in general will skyrocket and even the Mid-West and East Coast will probably see a noticeable rise in illnesses as well and cancers probably a 2 in 3 instead of 1 in 2. America I think faces the longest going from west to east 10-20 years to manifest and 30-40 years the farther east you go. Complete opinion. I think we will survive, but it will be filled with lots of pain and suffering and death until some scientific miracle can right these wrongs. Genetic restructuring of some sort, genomic protection, and radionuclide neutralization and clean up. One day, but not in our time probably. Complete opinion here, ok? lol


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  • WELL, THERE IS ALWAYS THAT NEW JAPANESE ARTIFICIAL WOMB to create a mutation-free new generation.

    "The artificial womb exists. In Tokyo, researchers have developed a technique called EUFI — extrauterine fetal incubation. They have taken goat fetuses, threaded catheters through the large vessels in the umbilical cord and supplied the fetuses with oxygenated blood while suspending them in incubators that contain artificial amniotic fluid heated to body temperature.

    READ MORE – http://ottersandsciencenews.blogspot.ca/2013/12/japan-creates-artificial-womb-while.html

    And not long ago Japan announced the creation of an animal (and human?) sperm bank
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/10272997/Japanese-scientists-create-sperm-bank-of-endangered-animals-to-colonise-other-planets.html


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  • Socrates

    Today's equivalent of "duck and cover" for second grade children would be what? Today, we understand that the Dr. Strangeloves needles traumatized a whole generation of children for no reason. When the roof caves in, a child is in more danger of being crushed by his/her school desk. Covering you face with your hands to avoid the initial blast is likewise useless.

    Bomb shelters were sold, too. Would that have helped? Then the era of napalm and Agent Orange followed. Airforce recruiters came to my high school a d demonstrated the efficacy of these death machines in the auditorium. Since 1957 Spun launch, we all joined the Missile Club. The the movie On the Beach.

    Vietnam started in the late 50s following Korea. 'Name continued u til 1975 under Ford.

    This all makes perfect sense to the nuclear guys. From Hiroshima a to Nagasaki to Falluja… Chernobyl and Fukushima…

    The domino theory….. watch out for those bad guys "out there…"

    "Evil-doers"… They nuclear guys must not own mirrors into which to see themselves.. Their reflections would be too much. Scare the children, ruin their mother's milk.


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      • Socrates

        All the lead in the paint shields from radiation. Anyone knows that! Hehehe..

        Lead is good to put in gasoline, too. It eliminates that knocking.

        No wonder Einstein said that there is nothing dumber than a nuclear idiot.


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    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Yes, Socrates, did you read my rant about the "Duck and Cover" drills, last night? My comments on people in power like Robert MacNamara. I was able to find some real gems (quotes) from him and John McCain (among others).


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      • Socrates

        I'll have to check those out, Ho Taters.

        Government child abuse. Check out the House in the Middle. Hexagon, above.

        Armed Madhouse should be Armed Remedial Thought Processes.

        I was around in the 40s and 50s going on house calls with my father in Reno, Nevada. The government wanted him to sign off on civilians watching the mushrooms of tactical nukes. Have you seen the movies of US infantry fixing bayonets and "charging" into ground zero?

        Civilians were told to break a Coca – cola bottom off a bottle and have their children watch the blasts through the glass. The colored glass would protect their eyes from the blast.

        Corexit used in the Gulf BP spill. Government protects corporations and military. Same with Fukushima.


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  • RJ RJ

    Can some one explain to me why we can't use magnets to generate electricity. And no sarc please


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  • artika rama

    RJ whatever you do ,, you cannot get more energy from a magneto machine than your input .
    Imagine dropping a ball from the edge of a table ( lets say 1 meter high ) and expecting it to bounce back up to the ceiling (lets say 3 meters highe ) ,, thats not possible . The ball can only have maximum amount of energy to bounce back up to 1 meter high ,, IF under ideal conditions , (even if there were no resistance , no heat loss etc etc ) , its highest point would never pass the 1 meter height where it was dropped from ,( the edge of the table ).
    Similarly you cannot expect a machine by giving it a push to create more energy than that push itself .
    So all those perpetual motion machines / magneto motors etc which promise clean energy are all lies and tricks .
    We only have the energy from the sun in the form of solar and wind (wave) energy as clean sources of energy .
    Instead of wasting all our resources and money on nuclear and oil we could have already created clean energy systems ,, adapted our lives accordingly and wouldnt need any of this poisonous evil monster called nuclear energy .


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  • pkjn

    Seawater fence doesn’t stop contamination / Cs-134/137 levels are the same inside and outside of the fence
    Fukushima Diary

    The radiation levels are the same inside and outside of the seawater fence called “silt fence”.
    From Tokyo Electric’s own data, on 12/20/2013, Cs-134/137 density in seawater was 7% higher outside of the fence beside reactor1. Also beside reactor4, Cs-134/137 density in seawater was 4% higher outside of the fence.
    Japanese government stated the sea contamination is controlled by the silt fence. However the data shows it is not effective as told.

    http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/12/seawater-fence-doesnt-stop-contamination-cs-134137-levels-are-the-same-inside-and-outside-of-the-fence/
    http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/fukushima-np/f1/smp/2013/images/intake_canal_131221-j.pdf


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  • SophieQ

    The truth has always been around – in between the lines. Fact Nº1 now should be that all six reactors of Daiichi experienced a melt down. It's the China syndrome times six.
    Secondly, yes, the release of radioactive isotopes has only increased since March 2011. Coriums are missing in burning action and will emit huge amounts of radiation into the atmosphere and hydrosphere alike. Having survived Chernobyl – so far so good – I know what's really coming down on Japan and the US.
    Casualties will be in the 50 Million range. There are more than 50 Million people living in the Tokyo area – an area that has been constantly bombarded by radiation. Hot particles in the center of Tokyo – No matter how one spins and turns the truth about this decisive human profit/power-error, the consequences are indeed life altering, or better life-shortening for hundreds of Millions of people. Of course there could be someone with a novelty idea to clean up the mess, but without the corium recovered, the irradiation of the planet will be ongoing and worsening.
    It still seems to make a lot of sense to see this 'accident' being part of a program to cull human population to 500 Million, as is so openly displayed in Georgia. Some people are so deranged that they make Adolf Hitler look like the Nobel Price Winner of 1939. How can we rid ourselves of the psycho- and sociopathic criminals that have given us this gift that keeps giving?


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    • artika rama

      SophieQ Who would want to depopulate using radioactivity unless they are suicidal ? How about themselves ? Their children , their families ?


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      • shamwow shamwow

        I am with Artika Rama on this. There are so many better ways to kill off population then using a nuclear meltdown. Nobody can control that and it kills the environment as well plus it is bad for real estate. Who will buy the multi million dollar ocean front estates now?


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        • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

          exactly shamwow and artika rama. I think SophieQ means well, when she suggests that this is an orchestrated attempt to cull the herd (as it were). For the reasons you two have touched on, I don't buy it. What I think may be happening with many who suggest such conspiracy, is they're confusing the very real fact that information's is being withheld from the general public, with some underlying suspicion that all of this is on purpose. It isn't…


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          • We Not They Finally

            Problem is, Aftershock, when people are so arrogant, insulated, powerful, and callous to the public good, then even "unintended consequences" become "on purpose," as you put it. Even the predisposition to monopolize on every destructive thing to make it yet MORE harmful, is "on purpose."

            Once the moral and social components are that missing, it actually becomes way EASIER for bad people with "agendas" to pull the strings. Then it will not matter what you do or do not, personally "buy."

            Surely you can relate to evil masked puppetmasters in the world who are positioned to destroy us. That's not "conspiracy theory" — it's pretty evident.

            And if, as you say, there is "information withheld" that is actually critical to even keeping ourselves alive, then why would anyone moral DO that at all? And how much do we have to parce what is "on purpose" or not??

            Oh I helped all those people be killed, but don't blame me because you cannot prove that it was "on purpose"?

            I'm being the devil's advocate here, but maybe you do need to rethink this. I'm sort of with SophieQ, though it's a big complex discussion too.


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            • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

              @WNTF: your excellent response merits reciprocity.

              While I agree that those in power are corrupt, I can't agree that this growing threat (311) is a part of their game plan. We can all agree, they've thought nothing of murdering millions in the past and would do so, again. But the randomness of what's to come, is not something they're accustomed too.

              What we're all witnessing from 'on-high', is a feeble attempt to maintain control. Reminds me more of the raucous parties in Hitler's bunker, while the Allied forces were bearing down on them all. It should be obvious to all out here, they don't know what to do! The reports are coming in 'from the front' and they're likely telling each other, victory's not far off. And not unlike what happened to German civilians themselves, that millions of innocents will lose their lives is of little significance to the 'war effort' itself; which in this case, is all about maintaining preeminence.

              Others also agree, there are far more 'productive' means to depopulating superfluous populations. And while we all agree, it's likely they have a hidden agenda to trim the 'dead wood' from their 'garden of delights', such effort must be inline with their desire for control. The 'byproducts' of Fukushima will ultimately result in a corrosive degradation of modern society and the complete unraveling of their 'dream'…


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  • name999 name999

    Anne, I so appreciate your skillful way of discussing very pertinent information, well researched and great links.
    The good people trying to lead in this craziness to solve these problems can only do
    so much. They risk their lives to take a public position against the nuclear industry. This industry is predicated on secrecy and lies violence, and disrespect for life. With lots of money and unfortunately, legal protection, people in this industry are very very very dangerous. Few people will take the stand that Arnie Gunderson has taken, and he has told the truth as best one can when so many are trying to kill the messenger…Thank you to all on this site, honest inquiry and connection is uplifting…


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  • HoTaters HoTaters

    Drip, drip, drip. Moving toward the truth, but I think the estimates for death and illness related to Fukushima are underestimated by at least a factor of 10.

    But in my heart, I'm expecting six million, 60 million, or even 600 million to die. It just depends upon whether or not the water entering the ocean can be contained, the underground river and groundwater diverted away from the coriums. And the fissioning off into the air, the spent fuel needs to be controlled, somehow.

    Just hoping and praying the international policy making bodies begin to step in on this, and pressure Japan to take or concede control. Don't want to see more lame things happen like the IAEA making excuses and asking for the public to condone dumping of the contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean.

    Completely unacceptable and suicidal, genocida, globecidal.


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    • HoTaters HoTaters

      Genocidal. Geez, I get worked up when I think about the IAEA and Tepco asking the public for "permission" to dump the water.

      (IAEA, Tepco) Are y'all out of yer minds? Well, obviously, yes you are.


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      • Bones Bones

        How could you not when this is absolutely real and happening. This is every single persons' worst nightmare. Everyone has in the back of their head, any time they think or hear nuclear power or see a plant, that at any time they could be dead from radiation from the radionuclides…Something so hideous you can't see, you just get sick and die, and causes such horrible suffering and NEVER goes away. It will be with us and our ancestors…Not just kids…Ancestors. (Just look at half-lives and amts released.) I am waiting on my geiger counter, I bought a real one. lol I cannot wait to map my area and water, etc. Ebay has great deals on liquid scintillation counters! We all can do something. Use that extreme emotion it evokes and we can all create our own information network and tell the people here is the data here is the truth you've been lied to.


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  • hutteto

    (Part 1)Hey guys. I never post here but I read this site daily. I might start a new thread or something on this but I wanted to share my thoughts on what I think is happening. I will do so based on the number of responses and feedback I get from this post.

    Anyway to the important stuff… I have done a TON of research on aliens and fallen angles, and I am convinced of 2 main things pertaining to what's going on with our world today, specifically with the current circumstances in Fukushima and this extinction we are about to experience. I believe fallen angels ARE what most people think of when they think of the concept of an alien. Aliens are what brought us this death technology (as well as allot of other technologies).

    I believe they have technology out there TODAY that is being suppressed that can rid/mitigate/neutralize EMITTED radiation(sub-atomic particles). Sort of like a primordial soup of other sub-atomic particles. Think of an atom and it's building blocks. The matter we see is in the form of sub-atomic particles in a "stable" configuration we call an atom. Imagine a scenario where all the sub-atomic building blocks are there with the exception of lets say a proton or neutron. As soon as that needed piece is absorbed into this "soup" an atom would be created and matter would seemingly appear out of thin air. I believe they have something like this to absorb the radiation(emitted particles). They have told the world leaders, and probably…


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  • hutteto

    (Part 2) even demonstrated this technology and measured with a Geiger counter to prove they are telling them the truth. I know for fact the US government is working with 1 or more classes of aliens(fallen angels – who have ulterior motives than to help mankind). They do not want us here. I am not going into religious mode here because in my journey I have learned too many things that makes me questions certain aspects of Christianity(that's not the point – and to add, I'm not saying I don't believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Satan, etc… And I do believe we have a creator(s), this just isn't the place right now to discuss and I want to stay on topic because we have a major problem here with this radiation and we need to try to find SOLUTIONS). With that said I firmly believe that like with genetic tampering to change, destroy, or prevent a divine plan from coming to fruition(like DNA tampering to prevent Jesus from being born from a human that had intact/uncontaminated/pure/clean/untainted/perfect DNA – pick your word of choice), I believe this PLANNED radiation attack is to serve the same or a similar purpose. The plan here is to depopulate and cull the worlds population, and they don't care about any other life really. There are too many things that add up that support this theory to ignore. The Svalbard Global Seed Vault, the sending of genetic material to outer space in orbit(in digital and raw form), the UFO abductions that harvest our DNA, etc…


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  • hutteto

    (Part 3) I guess I'll leave it that for now. But we need a think tank of how to mitigate/reverse/neutralize this radiation, and I think it can be done. I made these posts today because I read artika rama's and shamwow's post about post about "SophieQ Who would want to depopulate using radioactivity unless they are suicidal ? How about themselves ? Their children , their families ?"

    Well this theory provides an answer. Its always been about altering genetics with these angels(aliens).

    And here are 2 more things that supports my suspicion about them having this technology to neutralize radiation… A) it makes sense, B) I own an Expector Radiation Alert EXP pro. I bought this after the disaster began to unfold. Me and my roommate are constantly looking at the data. We are on the Mineral Lab radiation network under the alias of "hutteto". We have been online for 12 days 18 hours 18 minutes as of the writing of these words. We analyze our data and we take VERY GREAT CARE of our detector. We have witnessed on several occasions the CPMs drop to 0 for an entire 1 to 2 minute increment before a disintegration is detected. We feel the detector is NOT faulty because when we look at the data minutes prior and after we see it began the drop and then inches up after the drop to 0 or 1, sometimes it may go to only 3 CPMs before it begins climbing in subsequent minutes after. I just placed an order for a 2nd one so we can corroborate this anomaly. This will be…


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  • hutteto

    (Part 3) I guess I'll leave it that for now. But we need a think tank of how to mitigate/reverse/neutralize this radiation, and I think it can be done. I made these posts today because I read artika rama's and shamwow's post about post about "Sophie Q Who would want to depopulate using radioactivity unless they are suicidal ? How about themselves ? Their children , their families ?"

    Well this theory provides an answer. Its always been about altering genetics with these angels(aliens).

    And here are 2 more things that supports my suspicion about them having this technology to neutralize radiation… A) it makes sense, B) I own an Expector Radiation Alert EXP pro. I bought this after the disaster began to unfold. Me and my roommate are constantly looking at the data. We are on the Mineral Lab radiation network under the alias of "hutteto". We have been online for 12 days 18 hours 18 minutes as of the writing of these words. We analyze our data and we take VERY GREAT CARE of our detector. We have witnessed on several occasions the CPMs drop to 0 for an entire 1 to 2 minute increment before a disintegration is detected. We feel the detector is NOT faulty because when we look at the data minutes prior and after we see it began the drop and then inches up after the drop to 0 or 1, sometimes it may go to only 3 CPMs before it begins climbing in subsequent minutes after. I just placed an order for a 2nd one so we can corroborate this anomaly. This will be…


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  • hutteto

    (Part 4) Please let me know your thoughts.


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    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

      you really don't want to know my thoughts, hutteto. As it's obvious the bulk of your post was completely off topic, it's obvious (at least to me), you're not really interested in what's going on and have other motives in mind. While it's understandable that you'd want to advantage yourself of this audience, such voluminous material would be better received within the off-topic forum. At least there, I'd be able to properly address your concerns about aliens and such. As it is now, your efforts could easily be seen as an attempt to 'slide' this article's important subject matter into never-never land…


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      • hutteto

        Well… You have got to be kidding me. And you don't want to know my thoughts… Did you care about the fact that I was FLOATING a valid idea trying to find a solution, a solution about the radiation problem from Fukushima that IS, effectively killing all life on earth. The problem that IS going to rip all life away from planet earth IS the FOCUS of my concern, and post. THE point here is my focus on a SOLUTION! I'd like some valid, intelligent conversation centered around some actual solutions. I'm spending my time trying to figure out solutions that will SAVE OUR LIVES.


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    • We Not They Finally

      hutteto, I do NOT think that you have ulterior motives and I appreciate your thoughts, however controversial. You're thinking and you care. That's what's important.

      Maybe the bottom line is that there is no one out there (even Aftershock) who cannot claim to be PUZZLED how/why humans would be destroying the very genetic fabric of human (and all other) life. It may even be one of the last strongholds of "denial" — that we finally see what is here, but even postulating the how-why of it, still seems too incredible.

      Probably one of the "deep ends of the pool" would be David Icke. And I used to dismiss that. But now I say that there has to be SOME explanation for seemingly suicidal/homicidal behavior against the whole human race by people who still claim to be "human."

      Don't have the answers, but I respect the inquiry. You should keep posting! Just maybe keep it a little shorter so people can better absorb an unfamiliar perspective.


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      • We Not They Finally

        Also, hutteto, you might look up the work of Radha Roy (now deceased), an Indian physicist who lived and worked in the U.S., I think at a university in Arizona. He developed a method of converting dangerous radionuclides into NON-radioactive isotopes — like plutonium into lead — bombarding particles with neutrons or some such. (I'm not a scientist.) "Alchemy," so to speak. But then again, what's happening with radioactive particles is sort of "alchemy" — just of the most destructive, life-killing kind!

        One doesn't hear much about Radha Roy, but for all we know he had patents that were stolen. (That does happen a lot!) What is highly disturbing, of course, is that so much tech that would help humanity gets stolen or co-opted. And yes, unfortunately we've had to relate to excessive greed and power as motives. But now it's at the point of suicide/homicide/globe-icide. Which no one really understands.

        So keep probing — by all means!


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        • many moons

          WNTF thanks I found this very interesting about The Roy Process

          http://nuclearwaste-theroyprocess.blogspot.com/2005/12/to-all-late-dr.html
          This could be answer.


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        • hutteto

          @We Not They Finally – You are absolutely correct with your ""alchemy"" quote. I have concluded that in my theory that the up conversion of radiation(sub-atomic particles) theory of absorbing in a "primordial soup" *WOULD* be alchemy. (That's why I said "As soon as that needed piece is absorbed into this "soup" an atom would be created and matter would seemingly appear out of thin air." (another example: mercury into radioactive gold…)

          That instantly hit me as a flag that we are onto something. Thank you so much for providing this link. Later today I will look at it. I find it EXTREMELY odd that: these lobbies suppressing radiation "mitigation" technologies get away with what they do – and yet out of the other side of their mouth tout how GREAT and "CLEAN!" it is.


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      • hutteto

        Thanks. It's funny HOW some people are "helpful". Just from my experience in life, people who want to be helpful are generally not so negative toward the people who want to help them. Trust me, I'm not on here because I want to be. I'm here because I was thrusted into this unpleasant position, and I care about getting me, my family, friends and loved ones, as well as all other victims out of this position… Like I said before "We need a think tank". We're all on the same side.


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      • many moons

        why humans would be destroying the very genetic fabric of human ???

        Maybe they are doing it because finally they can….all the wars and even nuclear weapons could destroy the earth and all of nature so completely as a nuclear meltdown.
        They plants are placed throughout the world….it's finally possible to put an end to everything….it never would have worked before.


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        • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

          all due respect many moons, what we're witnessing is the result of a century of competitive power struggle. Had they enough time, the bio-tech industry would likely have produced equivalent horrors and environmental damage. In the case of nuclear, the desire for preeminence by those in power, created a culture of 'metered' exchanges and subsequent proliferation of this deadly technology. There's been an ongoing battle between those who had this technology and wanted to control it, and those who rationalized their right to profit from it. It didn't take long (by planetary standards) before profiteers found it more in their immediate interest to cut corners. Waste sites like Hanford are but one of the examples of this thinking. The Russians, English, French and anyone else who felt free to do so, simply dumped their wastes and decommissioned materials at sea. What we're witnessing is nothing more than lose of control; both personally and collectively…


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    • Rodo

      I dont know if you're right but the same thought passed my mind because i can not understand that world leaders are not responding to this world threatening event.


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  • J.

    One brief addition, off topic with apologies, but really very interesting:

    http://vimeo.com/51873011

    The video shows a newly developed super capacitor. Ironically, it was developed by GE, reportedly the designer of the defective Mark IV reactors now contaminating the planet.

    We're really in a race between radical change for the better and outright disaster. The super capacitor may be a game changer. Here's hoping.


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    • hutteto

      Thank you. Was very interesting when I clicked that link earlier last night. I'm surprised you were not attacked for off-topic subject. And by all means, don't take this as an insult or attack(because I very much appreciate this link). Just odd how I try to contribute to this forum and immediately get attacked(trolled??? – yes I said that for those who know) but yet you admit it's off topic directly and you walk away many hours later still unscathed. Just kind of odd when people who supposedly are for helping people make a post to HELP people and get attacked by 3 seemingly… well I wont go there…


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      • hutteto

        And btw, just want to let you know I appreciated your link. My roommate said I would enjoy it, and I did. Very cool. Hope you had a good night.


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      • Sparky Sparky

        @hutteto, J., Manymoons, 'Welcome! 'Glad to see you are joining in the conversation. However, I want to state that I didn't read into the above comments that anyone was "attacked" (selectively or not) for posting off-topic. But for the benefit of all concerned, it is better to post to the appropriate forum (i.e., "General Discussion, Non-nuclear Issues)to ensure your posts are read/responded to by a broader audience of other Enenewsers who may be more receptive to your content regarding aliens and angels rather than those looking to post/read on the article, "experts-fukushima-victims-to-include-up-to-300000-deaths-over-100000-still-births…."


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    J, the game changer has already happened in 1945. There will be a day soon when the entire world will reel from "shock and awe" from/regarding the damage that the Nuclear Industry has brought down onto them and theirs.

    It's only a matter of time now and it will be soon. :(

    None of the reported numbers up top are even close to accurate since 31,750,000 people are already slotted to die from cancer from their (Japan's) first encounter and onslaught with the application of this Nuclear Technology and it's already seen ramifications.

    This has always been a numbers game and after each Nuclear Event/Disaster/Release/Exposure your personal chances of being negatively affected be the Mutagenic Behavior of Radiation Contamination in all forms goes up exponentially….

    Silly people with no idea what they are now doing to themselves and then to the entire Planet we now call Earth. :(

    It's all very sad.. :(


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  • name999 name999

    Regarding aliens, my only hope is that if there are aliens here that they will help the earth survive. But that is a desperate plea, better to pray to your divine sources if you believe in them.

    Aliens were, as I understand it from some past research, used as a cover story. The US developed the aeronautics, far far advanced to anything known or seen before, after obtaining the copyrights and science from Nazi Germany after the war ended. Operation Paperclip brought that science to the US and people started seeing these things zipping across the sky as never seen before. What the hell was that Martha??? So all the alien stories got cachet to hide the secret military programs. Aliens? I don't claim to know, but beware the alien rationale. Big disinformation diversion from the truth…


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  • hutteto

    I hope we can neutralize this radiation. I hate it. I wish they had never come up with "nuclear technology", i.e., death. Anyone want to engage in an intelligent, meaningful conversation focusing around this problem? I'd love to try to give my opinions in order to help. Does anyone have a good idea?


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    • Please go to the General Discussion Thread linked on the right. Or the off-topic forum. Thanks.


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      • hutteto

        No. Period! This discussion is relevant.


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        • It's only relevant to the tactical insertion of aliens and other patently dismissible stuff designed to diminish the possible effectiveness of discussion of the links and data at the top of this page and highlighted by the title of this post, by placing those who do engage firmly into the realm of "Crazy UFO-Type Conspiracy Theorists" nobody will pay the slightest bit of attention to.

          The tactical toolkit is well known, so it's not like you guys are really fooling anybody. If your entirely off-topic distraction is so 'relevant', then take it to where it's not off-topic. That's a perfectly reasonable request. What the 'experts' above have to say about the possible health effects from Fukushima is not about space aliens, UFO abductions or any other subjects of your off-topic spam.

          The 15 Rules of Web Disruption -
          http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/08/the-15-rules-of-web-disruption/


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          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            .. :) Yes, by all means stay on topic and move this type of discussion where it belongs..


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          • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

            we need an FAQ on posting etiquette. It wouldn't be too difficult for a few of us to get together (in the OT section, of course) and hammer i out. That would ensure that all of us, regardless of motive, would know the general consensus to what's acceptable posting behavior.

            I'll admit that I break the rules by jumping into active threads and adding my two cents. But I never (at least that I know of) initiate an OT thread. It's gotten bad these last few months, so it's time for us to put things right. Producing a posting FAQ would go a long ways towards alleviating the personal enmity that often results with reminding others that they're OT…


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            • Aftershock, there's little to no problem at all with opining on divergent but related subjects here and there, we all do that to a certain extent. Just look up there at this latest obvious distraction and count the number of wordy posts. Then notice the attitude displayed when asked politely to take it to where it's not off-topic. Looks to me to be a clear signal of intent, and that kind of junk doesn't contribute a thing to the discussion of the topic of this post by EneNews. Which does such a slam-bang job of bringing to us a wide range of news articles about what's happening and what various types of 'experts' are saying about what's happening.

              I just see this kind of trolling as purposeful, and the purpose isn't to add to anybody's knowledge or to evaluate the offered information from this website fairly.


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              • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                you'll notice JoyB, I flagged him right off. What I'm suggesting is a means to avoid unnecessary conflict or alienation of well meaning but misguided commentary. I'm also aware of the tag-teams who are working to disrupt this site. None of this eludes the discerning eye. But a little up-front effort can put much of this to sleep…


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                • You're right of course, AS. I just get frustrated sometimes when they descend in numbers. Which are themselves deceptive, since they could all be the same operative under several pseuds.


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                  • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                    actually JoyB, they're hired guns; usually operating in small teams. The really good ones will get together in a single space (office) and discuss strategies while working different accounts. It's quite effective, as most observers are still thinking in the singular sense of a troll. Tag-teams allow for the perception of 'consensus' by the unwitting. It's really fun to watch them at 'play'. They're also known to go after specific 'targets'; those who represent a threat to their paymaster's.

                    While such efforts are usually allocated to politically oriented 'rooms', sites like this are equally important to those who are accustomed to 'massaging' public perceptions; perhaps, more so, as ENENEWS cuts-across a diverse swath of issues.

                    Those who are 'privileged' enough to find themselves doing such 'work', are by their very nature, spiritually compromised and limited in their ability to see the big picture; which ultimately culminates in their experiencing unrelenting karma. In truth, I feel a sense of sadness for these fools…


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                    • Yeah, I've been 'targeted' in another forum for which I write updates on Fuku/nuke news, by one of the enlisted academic oceanographers (think Buesseler's gang) telling us all about how not-dangerous Fuku contamination of the Pacific is, begging for support for government contracts to "keep track" of that not-dangerous contamination, and how we really, really NEED those 2,000-4,000 new nukes to replace coal in order to 'cure' global warming (their main cause celebré of late). All the while pretending to be 'experts' on radionuclide contamination and health physics. Which, of course, they're absolutely not.

                      Hell, Buesseler himself was proudly proclaiming that polonium-210 is "the most common" radionuclide in the world's oceans on his web page selling this schlock to the public. My stalker kept insisting that was true even though I explained how Google works, and that he too could "Look It Up" on any of 4 million or so authoritative sites listing "the most common radionuclides in the world's oceans." Hint: polonium-210 is #10 on a list of 10.

                      Oy. Then he sent me a private message to tell me he knows who I am in real life, and claimed to have a book by me on his damned shelf. What a total crock! Fortunately, he's been MIA of late, must have figured out it wasn't going to fly… §;o)


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    • Stax Stax

      hutteto-I appreciate your thoughts and must ask have you seen the documentary 'the fourth kind'-very enlightening.
      best wishes


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  • name999 name999

    Bikini Atoll 1946 from Wikipedia…

    "Radio controlled autopilots were installed in eight B-17 bombers, converting them into remote-
    controlled drones which were then loaded with automatic cameras, radiation detectors, and
    air sample collectors. Their pilots operated them from a safe distance from the detonations. The drones could fly into radiation environments such as Able's Mushroom Cloud which would have been lethal…In all, Bikini cameras took 50,000 still pictures and 1,500,000 feet (460,000) of motion picture film. One of the cameras could shoot 1000 frames per second…"

    an angel or an alien in 1946…no one heard of this shit back then…


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  • GBCIR

    It is much worse than this. DEMOCIDE = BILLIONS MURDERED.

    There will be DEATH for those that don't use cannabis oil.

    I'm NOT advocating drugs.

    I'm only trying to save as many of yOUR Children as I (we) can.

    Stoned Kids (cannabis cures cancer)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXKjRkkoIOU

    Who would DARE HARM A CHILD?

    The use of ANY chemotherapy (or radiation) = DEATH. I wish her parents knew that.

    Wake-up BE'ings for Earth – YOU ARE BEING ATTACKED!

    What are YOU going to do about that FACT?

    When attacked BE OFFENSIVE.

    And for those that think I should rePENT? I agree. RePENT = the PENTagram.

    Know yOUR MATH. Phi Mod9 = radiation ELIMINATION.


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    As most of us know radiation does not mix with humans.
    We know there is a jet stream and it goes around the world.
    We have been in trouble long ago with wars, experiments, and so on.
    Slowly there has been desecration, violation to this earth and to us.
    Fukushima disaster is just the big goop of icing on the cake.
    People will continue to suffer and die, because of this disaster.
    I don't know if this is the last nail in the coffin for us all, could very well be. If it doesn't, then it's a miracle.
    I believe this is and will continue to effect all of us.
    Time will tell, if this is the last straw, or if there is another disaster around the corner, that will do us all in.


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  • tbg

    My concerns with these out-there theories and ideas is they sublimate the message that Fukushima is Real.

    Radiation is Real, and Here.

    It is not some batshit crazy shit about aliens or jew-nazi-lizards or angels. I wonder how many thousands of people have been turned off to the reality of this situation by these types of assertions, I know that I have sent Many people to this site only to have to distance myself from the more zany theories and constant flow of babble that take over those comments. Anne is totally right, looks like basic shill 101. Its funny how as you look thru the comments on old stories you notice gramatical and syntaxical similarities in many of the shill/debater comments that always go on and on. Like the Arnie good/bad debate that has produced 100 comments of nothing, ag is a man that he has helped bring recognition on some levels but no one is above criticism. However I would recommend that for people who are so sure he is bad for this movement, Start Your Own site, Put Out Your Own Press Releases.

    Likewise for people who have a legitimate interest in the best possible resolution from fuku and not only distracting from it.

    You should realize that sidelining threads with obscure theories only hurts this cause.

    When the millions who do not believe come here, they do not take away the facts, they take away the craziest theory they read, and THATS why these need to be in the correct forum.


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    • Sparky Sparky

      @tbg, Thank you, very well-stated!

      "I know that I have sent Many people to this site only to have to distance myself from the more zany theories and constant flow of babble that take over those comments."

      I've had the same experience, repeatedly. As a result, we all lose credibility, which impedes our ability to make progress in educating people and changing behavior or policy. Sometimes it’s just plain embarrassing. Most of the information and conversation here is really worthwhile, sometimes even brilliant. But I despair when the conversation gets so far out or snarky.


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    • andagi andagi

      Dear tbg,
      Agreed, thanks :)
      Aloha.


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  • hutteto

    Well, go zany, kooky, lol. Just trying to contribute. You guys, you know what Im talking about. When it comes to trolls. Have fun dyin!


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  • hutteto

    We ARE DYING from radiation. You guys are not thinking!


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  • hutteto

    Don't we need to try to reverse this?


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  • hutteto

    You trapped me in your spun web. Im telling you this world is DEAD. Im trying to come up with solutions. You guys(network of trolls) are misguiding humanity


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    • hutteto

      (Part 1)Hey guys. I never post here but I read this site daily. I might start a new thread or something on this but I wanted to share my thoughts on what I think is happening. I will do so based on the number of responses and feedback I get from this post.

      Anyway to the important stuff… I have done a TON of research on aliens and fallen angles, and I am convinced of 2 main things pertaining to what's going on with our world today, specifically with the current circumstances in Fukushima and this extinction we are about to experience. I believe fallen angels ARE what most people think of when they think of the concept of an alien. Aliens are what brought us this death technology (as well as allot of other technologies).

      I believe they have technology out there TODAY that is being suppressed that can rid/mitigate/neutralize EMITTED radiation(sub-atomic particles). Sort of like a primordial soup of other sub-atomic particles. Think of an atom and it's building blocks. The matter we see is in the form of sub-atomic particles in a "stable" configuration we call an atom. Imagine a scenario where all the sub-atomic building blocks are there with the exception of lets say a proton or neutron. As soon as that needed piece is absorbed into this "soup" an atom would be created and matter would seemingly appear out of thin air. I believe they have something like this to absorb the radiation(emitted particles). They have told the world leaders, and probably…


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  • hutteto

    (Part 2) even demonstrated this technology and measured with a Geiger counter to prove they are telling them the truth. I know for fact the US government is working with 1 or more classes of aliens(fallen angels – who have ulterior motives than to help mankind). They do not want us here. I am not going into religious mode here because in my journey I have learned too many things that makes me questions certain aspects of Christianity(that's not the point – and to add, I'm not saying I don't believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Satan, etc… And I do believe we have a creator(s), this just isn't the place right now to discuss and I want to stay on topic because we have a major problem here with this radiation and we need to try to find SOLUTIONS). With that said I firmly believe that like with genetic tampering to change, destroy, or prevent a divine plan from coming to fruition(like DNA tampering to prevent Jesus from being born from a human that had intact/uncontaminated/pure/clean/untainted/perfect DNA – pick your word of choice), I believe this PLANNED radiation attack is to serve the same or a similar purpose. The plan here is to depopulate and cull the worlds population, and they don't care about any other life really. There are too many things that add up that support this theory to ignore. The Svalbard Global Seed Vault, the sending of genetic material to outer space in orbit(in digital and raw form), the UFO abductions that harvest our DNA, etc…


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  • A not-dead dead person is called a "Zombie," hutteto. If you think you're dead, you might find better things to do with your time as a Zombie than to troll this website.


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  • hutteto

    (Part 3) I guess I'll leave it that for now. But we need a think tank of how to mitigate/reverse/neutralize this radiation, and I think it can be done. I made these posts today because I read artika rama's and shamwow's post about post about "SophieQ Who would want to depopulate using radioactivity unless they are suicidal ? How about themselves ? Their children , their families ?"

    Well this theory provides an answer. Its always been about altering genetics with these angels(aliens).

    And here are 2 more things that supports my suspicion about them having this technology to neutralize radiation… A) it makes sense, B) I own an Expector Radiation Alert EXP pro. I bought this after the disaster began to unfold. Me and my roommate are constantly looking at the data. We are on the Mineral Lab radiation network under the alias of "hutteto". We have been online for 12 days 18 hours 18 minutes as of the writing of these words. We analyze our data and we take VERY GREAT CARE of our detector. We have witnessed on several occasions the CPMs drop to 0 for an entire 1 to 2 minute increment before a disintegration is detected. We feel the detector is NOT faulty because when we look at the data minutes prior and after we see it began the drop and then inches up after the drop to 0 or 1, sometimes it may go to only 3 CPMs before it begins climbing in subsequent minutes after. I just placed an order for a 2nd one so we can corroborate this anomaly. This will be…


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  • hutteto

    (Part 4) Please let me know your thoughts.


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  • hutteto

    Wish this radiation never happened. Anyone want to have a discussion about this? How can we get rid of this radiation?


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  • hutteto

    Fast response. I'm glad there are like minded thinkers. Whats your thoughts on how to stop/reverser this radiation?


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  • jec jec

    WEBs are back on TBS webcam 4, BIG TIME, but webcam site has trouble and shows old blog items.


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  • jec jec

    06112014 TBS Webcam 4 at 20:00 hours JST time. Reactor 3 is steaming..or the plasma (webs) are starting. Mostly looks like something coming from reactor 3 right side. No earthquakes to speak of, foggy on Webcam 1.


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