Published: September 23rd, 2011 at 7:32 pm ET
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Detection of Hydrogen in the Piping of Spray System of Unit 1 Primary Containment Vessel, TEPCO, September 23, 2011:
[Emphasis Added]
More than 10000ppm concentration of hydrogen was detected by a hydrogen detector when we checked the gas in the piping before cutting it.
10,000 parts per million equates to 1%.
“If the density of hydrogen in the air exceed 4%, there’s a danger of explosion.” -Mainichi Shinbun translated by EX-SKF
“And today [September 23; they knew about "over 10,000 ppm" the day before] we went to measure using the meter that can measure up to 4%. It was 4% max. So the work [to cut the pipe] was canceled, and TEPCO made an announcement. I didn’t know, as I’m not very knowledgeable about chemistry, but it seems there’s a chance of explosion if hydrogen gas is more than 4%.” -Tweet by TEPCO worker translated by EX-SKF
The TEPCO worker “is wondering if zirconium cladding is still melting and reacting, producing hydrogen.” -EX-SKF
h/t to EX-SKF’s three reports (1, 2, 3) on this topic
SOURCE: TEPCO
Fukushima No. 1 of the original Departure: No. 1 piping か ら Su 検 a high concentration of water, Mainichi, September 23, 2011:
Google Translation
TEPCO [...] has detected a high concentration of hydrogen. Accidents, hydrogen is generated by the reaction of nuclear fuel cladding and water heating, and were seen accumulated in the pipe after the explosion. Increase the risk of explosion increases above a certain hydrogen concentration of hydrogen and oxygen in the air. TEPCO for hydrogen in the containment “(for explosion protection) that is pushed out by nitrogen implantation, the risk of explosion is low,” that you are.
The roadmap towards the convergence TEPCO accident this month incorporating a new “containment gas management system,” as preparation for work, we investigated the hydrogen concentration in the pipe 22, the air was more than 1% . Measurement capabilities for up to 1% of the equipment used, the actual concentration is unknown. [...]
4% hydrogen in air, there is a danger of hydrogen explosion together with more than 5% oxygen. TEPCO is accurate to measure the hydrogen concentration in the pipe, which pushes consider the injection of nitrogen and hydrogen to separate pipes.
Published: September 23rd, 2011 at 7:32 pm ET
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sending...
Sounds like a close call. Cutting that pipe could have been disastrous.
Won’t the tent they just put up increase the risk for a hydrogen explosion in the future? I mean, if it is supposed to contain the particles it will hold back the hydrogen too.
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careful with that gas leak you might have a tent blowout on your hands.
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Posted on the Tokyo Protest page but thought I’d alert you to 2 NEW unmoderated threads:
SOLYNDRA
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/23/for-insight-on-solyndra-l_n_978188.html
TRAIN Act To Limit Clean Air Protection Passes The House
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/23/train-act-clean-air-protection-house_n_978502.html
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And today I feel sick, darn it all. Trying to post…but it’s hard.
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STILL going a hundred miles a minute GUYS.
NO MODERATION!!!
Come on! Get to work on these threads!
Times a wasting!
NO SHIT SHIRLOCK!!
Going to bed.
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HUSH MAIL if you dont want to use regular email
http://www.hushmail.com/
IT’S QUICKER THAN SNOT!
Sorry…but these threads do NOT STAY ACTIVE VERY LONG! Geezzzzzzzzzzzzz
DO NOT BE AFRAID OR LEARY TO JOIN HP!
Millions read it! SO DO IT!
Night all.
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Whoopie, I hope you feel better soon.
April and September have been the two hardest’s months for me this year.
Flu..Radiation..Allergies: Who knows???
Normally, I only get sick “Once a year” November, December, or January and a little allergies during spring and summer.
Also in bed with covers over my head. What’s up with this, I have things to do.
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Wow. Just, wow….we should be prepared for anything, I guess.
I just hope that if an explosion happens, the public will be informed. That’s my biggest concern.
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That would be a tough one to hide. But even if the plant explodes I’m sure it will pose no risk to public health, right?
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Right!
LMAO~~~
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I agree. Be aware is where we are and where we’re going. I am sure, as ‘bmurr’ stated, that we will first be told it’s of “no concern”. Then, it will take them six months or more to release anything near the real data.
Based on ‘omission of the facts’ or ‘lies’ from past experiences I would say, they will NOT be forthcoming.
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We had a huge spike in the beta gross count in Denver on the 8th or 9th of September. Not only were we not told about it after the fact, we sure weren’t told about it beforehand so we could protect ourselves.
That’s why they say nothing. By the time you find out anything it’s already too late to relocate. Creates a really docile population.
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Pipe Shmipe….Explosion Shmekplosion
…Be positive…since the Planet is gonna die, sell your assets in the States and buy a beautiful home on the ocean in Fukushima for pennies on the dollar.
…Local food is dirt cheap too I hear…like for free.
…Can walk at night with no fear of being mugged either.
…No neighbours to snoop in on you or bug you.
…Go fishing for free, no fishing licenses required.
…wake up when you want, do what you want.
Sounds like paradise if you ask me.
red red wine
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If you live for 250,000 years you will make a huge profit on your investment.
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It’s not likely there will be any people to support the economy. I.e., what economy?
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Great surfing spot, and no competition for the best waves.
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Hey, and you can’t taste the radiation or smell it either.
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However, you will be able the smell whatever is dying or dead.
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last two articles and data suggest
the time bombs about to blow
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“This is the big one! You hear that, Elizabeth? I’m coming to join ya, honey!
—Redd Foxx. R.I.P. 1991
“Tokyo! This is it! We are fixing to blow Japan to the Stone Age!”
— Catwalk Tepco Employee. R.I.P. 2011
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September Remember. October All Over.
— last two verses of the Mariner’s Hurricane Rhyme
Did you see those radiation levels for Tokyo at JapanTimes? Sheesh!
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OK, No one’s asked, so I will…
After 6 months of meltdown, Tepco calling out that they have it under 100 deg cent, and supposedly no reactions going on, where the hell is the hydrogen in these quantities coming from???
Maybe some zircaloy is still reacting by being exposed to air…
Published on Saturday, March 12, 2011 by CommonDreams.org
Behind the Hydrogen Explosion at the Fukushima Nuclear Plant
by Karl Grossman
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/03/12-3
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With the cracks opening up in the ground, possibly they may run as deep as the melted fuel and the air may be getting to it that way.
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are you actually believing that information was true? You must be a true blonde! The reactors aren’t even in there anymore. So of course it is stable in there.
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The growing nuclear backlash post Japan earthquake
When the March 11 tsunami and earthquake knocked out the reactors at Fukushima’s now notorious power plant, it triggered not only the worst nuclear crisis in decades – but also a wider-reaching nuclear backlash.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8752886/The-growing-nuclear-backlash-post-Japan-earthquake.html
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Off the subject.. Is anyone having trouble with the reply button?
Maybe it’s my puter?
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when i click to reply i am sent to the bottom of the page. no longer is my reply box pinned to the comment i am responding to. at times i have to scroll up quite a ways to refer back to the original post and then scroll back down to continue my reponse. somewhat like the character limitation imposed … pain in the keister. anyone else?
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a right paine in the max keiser yes!! agreed!!
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off-topic, but i love your Avatar chemfood.
And it seems the reply button is working for me right now, anyway…
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same thing just happened here also
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ADMIN: It’s true, now for some reason when you hit reply it takes you to bottom of page and you can’t reply to a particular comment. Also, I worked pretty hard on a bibliography of peer-reviewed articles and books which evidence harm from low level radiation. i thought people here would find it useful, but I’ve tried to do the “new post” thing twice and nothing happens; as soon as I press send, all the comments and headlines on the right side just disappear and are replaced by an error message. Isn’t there anywhere we can post references that will be helpful to people just learning about all things nuclear, as well as helpful to those who need evidence to bring before licensing hearings, etc? I’ve tried to post it twice, as new post, but no luck so far…not interested? Where can I post a helpful bib on the harms caused by low-level radiation??
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Hi Arizonan, you still can leave a reply to particular comments – look what it says in the grey box.
New comment – it says “leave a comment”
Answer to post – it says “leave a reply to Arizonan”
But yes, being sent down to the end of the thread is disturbing.
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Comments should be back to normal now. Arizonan, I will make a forum topic for info on low level radiation.
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Thank you admin, as usual, your the best-est.
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You’re a star admin! Thanks!!
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I’m surprised they checked hydrogen before cutting the pipe. With their (Tepco’s) track record I’d figure they would cut first and ask questions later.
So, fuel is still melting and producing hydrogen. Good to know. At least they have the thing in cold shutdown now. Easy to get it under 100 degrees when most the fuel is no longer in the reactor right?
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I think they all know more about this, than what is told to the public.
The only thing that is not known, is how to stop this disaster, that keeps giving.
Do I think it is a ticking time bomb..yes..
I also think all Nuclear plants are ticking time bombs, they are all dangerous.
Do you realize what could be released into our atmosphere if there was a huge catastrophe. We have nuclear, oil, germ experiments, and other experiments.
We have the ability to wipe out everyone and everything ..Now that is a scary thought.
Why build and make all these destructive things?
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Hi WSP, I don’t get it, too (the state of denial mankind is in, that is). How could a species be so dumb to knowingly destroy and kill its fundament of living?
I decided to be very honest to myself recently and calculated my carbon footprint.
Not nice. I take the consequences and scale my lifestyle down drastically at the moment. I don’t want others / mother nature to suffer from my visit on this planet; I’ll try not to live of more than my fair share (which is much less than I thought). But I feel very good about it.
*peace
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Well, I am not planning to fly again any time soon, so that’s the major part of my carbon footprint taken care of. Only ever walk or use public transport with the exception of the occasionaly and unavoidable taxi ride. That carbon footprint per person pales beside the industrial uses (same as with electricity).
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Does anyone feel that this article is phishy…
Here we have tepco. The information “Minimilizers” telling us that 4% hydrogen can explode…
First glance seems logical…
But being how forth right they have been in the past…
Anyone feel that there is something more?
Maybe a chain reaction is taking place with the fuel in the water table? They could be seeing signs of an “advancing” hyper-criticality.
SO Now:
by stating that hydrogen is at 4%, tepco can explain any explosion as an accumulation of hydrogen, Limiting the chemicals that will rise into the atmosphere as hydrogen. With no major concern to public health…
Claiming not to panic because the situation will Definitely not be a significant rise in radiation in any nature…
This would also explain why radiation levels in 1 are rising so dramatically.
While limiting the impact the situation will have on the public…
Last thing we would want to do; is have everyone in tokyo evacuate… right?
(cause that would be bad for the economy…)…
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This also explains why in the last 6 months
United states citizens and military are participating in the largest emergency evacuations drills to have ever occurred on our planet.
Why canada and the usa is dropping their radiation stations.
Why japan has been closed lips.
Why everyone has been closed lips…
Can you name any more fishy changes in the last 6 months:
Reply below…
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Mind you these are the same people who described a situation as causing harm or death as:
“Affecting peoples health”
lets be honest…
First off: What is Tepcos primary defense of neutralizing an upcoming hydrogen explosion?
The situation has so far been avoided by injecting nitrogen gas into the PCV (primary containment vessel)…
However:
Were now sure beyond a doubt that the fuel in reactor 1 Has breached the PCV. So its probably safe to assume that inserting the nitrogen into the PCV would be useless at this time. Another indication that the situation is more volatile than were led to believe, is essentially that Tepco has already performed this operation on the reactor, and hydrogen is still being recorded in larger and larger quantities…
Thats not a good sign.
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The #1 reactor has obviously been in more trouble than we are led to believe. The tent structure only indicates that the PCV is heavily damaged.
The previous insertions of nitrogen infers the nature of the fuels integrity.
The fact that the levels of hydrogen inside the reactor are climbing is alarming…
Put all the pieces together…
Along with the huge payments on disinformation outlets, the rendering of radiation networks, media blackouts, raising of permissible radiation limits…
Point made.
Have a nice day
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So yes in my opinion…
Its been a ticking time bomb all along…
I just called it a slinky… I tried to warn you all persistently for 6 months, and I hate to say it. But I think were getting very very very close to the end of the staircase…
Feel free to turn up the volume and clicky the link
Cheers
Emmy
http://4physics.com/phy_demo/slinky/song.htm
Who walks the stair without a care
It shoots so high in the sky.
Bounce up and down just like a clown.
Everyone knows its Slinky.
The best present yet to give or get
The kids will all want to try.
The hit of the day when you’re ready to play
Everyone knows it’s Slinky.
It’s Slinky, It’s Slinky
for fun it’s the best of the toys
It’s Slinky, It’s Slinky
the favorite of girls and boys.
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*for trained technicians.
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you mean you THINK this explains it. again, nothing hear proves any of your previous assumptions to be correct, and you assuming they do don’t make your assumptions correct either. nothing here has proven anything you have said, can you please let go of your ego here for a second?
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30 minutes waiting for a reply, & thats all you had to say…
Lame…
I thought steven would have taken more initiative…
I guess you guys are getting lazy…
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if you are this paranoid in thinking people here are actually working for some fucking (pardon my language) ‘agency’ or that some of us are all ‘in’ on something, i feel REALLY sorry for you. like, really sorry.
getting lazy? some of us have lives, like actually lives, with interactions with real people, not just feeding our internet personas by posting up on this site (and other forums).
again, i’m sorry for you, and i’m sorry you feel that way.
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very very lazy.
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my paranoia is apparently contagious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFLipZWlpOs&feature=player_embedded
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so you think that YOU are the sole reason he posted that vid? the idea of a ‘china syndrome’ was posted by MANY people, on many different news agencies/forums/etc.
you think that people like higgins made videos like that because of you?
wow…just…wow.
and sad…very very sad you feel that way (again).
how’s life t.g.? seen the sun lately? how are your eyes? staring at a computer screen is very, very bad you know.
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No you assume I think that to justify your personal attacks.
Here: Dial “M” for Meltdown,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90DRu-N7Iuk&feature=player_embedded
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how in the world did i miss this total taco flip out?
slinky smack… check
5,000 “i told you so’s”… check
“i’m the only one who can personally attack others”… check
aaaahhh… all is right in my world.
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@ Tacomagoove/mikey goldman/matthew neuman/jonathan clowers/ and “many many other aliases…”
“I thought steven would have taken more initiative…”
Why? You have been exposed as someone who is shameless in their use of multiple aliases, who clearly (to anyone with even a basic grasp of science or even logic) doesn’t understand the issues and who obviously makes ridiculous accusations in response to criticism or disagreement. Now that I know what you are and have informed the others here, there seems very little point in further comment.
I only post this out of courtesy to your statement, and I’ll add that I bear you no ill will. We are none of us perfect. I just happen to think that your views could mislead some of our less informed readers – I’d be happy if you would simply add ‘this is what I think’ rather than continuing in the current authoritarian style.
This is what I think btw: If someone doesn’t come up with a clever fix for Fukushima Daiichi, AND if we don’t scrap nuclear power, the planet is probably doomed.
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Steven you failed to understand simple algebraic terminology “constant variable”.
Please do continue impressing everyone with your knowledge of advanced mathematics & physics. While speaking for me…
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Also yes
I openly admitted months ago that I have used several user accounts to access the iaea fb page… (this was in order to gain access to it).
No secret there…
You linked to my post did you not… (meaning that its public information)…
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Tacoma you correctly point out that my understanding of algebra is limited. I have never claimed otherwise. As for your multiple alias explanation, that’s understandable under the circumstances. Not sure if you are male or female but I guess it doesn’t matter really.
I can’t see how anyone could be more reasonable than to simply suggest you apply a little less authority and a little more open conjecture in your posts so that those unfamiliar with matters nuclear realise you are not an expert, which you are not, and I presume this from the general thrust of your logic and command of the English language (in both of which, unlike algebra, I am well qualified to make judgement).
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I Have never claimed to be a nuclear engineer.
In fact I have said all along I am an event planner…
That proves only that I am not legally certified to speak on the subject.
Not that I am incapable of understanding basic nuclear science. Which is a difficult subject to elaborate on even or trained technicians.
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Perhaps we can agree that the outcome of this abomination at Fukushima is likely to be serious with far reaching consequences, but that accurate predictions are beyond the scope even of experts due to the many unknowns.
Personally I think that fact alone speaks volumes for the severity of the crisis. If we could only get the industry to admit that they don’t know what’s going on in/down there, I think people would really wake up and start paying attention.
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Perhaps…
I will agree that the outcome of this abomination at Fukushima is likely to be serious with far reaching consequences, however accurate predictions are completely within the scope of experts in my own opinion…
Hence why we are blacked out from a multiple sources data and information outlets…
To me Personally that fact alone speaks volumes for the severity of the crisis.
If we could only get the industry to admit that they know exactly what’s going on in/down there,
Then I feel people would really wake up and start paying attention.
The joke is on us…
In my opinion: If things were fine. WA State. would release the radiation levels that were taken via helicopter.
Epa and canada would make the rad networks available in real time. And Tepco would be forthright about information…
That is simply not the case, in my opinion.
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And the beat goes on…
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Hi all. I ran across an article at Natural News on flax seed. A new study indicates that it can help protect from radiation and actually reverse some of the radiation damage to lungs.
http://www.naturalnews.com/033657_flax_seeds_health_benefits.html
I think I’m going to try to add it to my cleansing arsenal. Is anyone currently using flax seed? If so, what form are you taking it in and where are you getting it from? Many thanks! I don’t get the chance to post often but I read the site most days. Ya’ll are awesome!
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I’ve eaten flax seeds for 22 years. I buy the whole seeds organic at my health food store. I grind them in a coffee grinder preferably just before eating. I use the seeds INSTEAD of any processed oils and fats. I’m vegan so I find other sources of sulfur and don’t eat dairy at all. Johanna Budwig pioneered using flax seeds to combat cancer. I almost died of cancer in 1989 (3 years after Chernobyl. I lived 15 miles from the Santa Susana disaster in 1959). I also eat millet [instead of wheat] which also has B-17.
http://www.amazon.com/Johanna-Budwig/e/B003Q1L2H0
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I eat newly ground flax seeds sprinkled on my food.
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Flax seed from the US and Canada will be contaminated soon if not already.
“The significant linseed producing countries are Canada (~34%) and China (~25.5%), though there is also production in India (~9%), USA (~8%), Ethiopia (~3.5%) and throughout Europe. Almost all of the United States crop is from the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, and Montana.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flax
Since 42% of flax production worldwide is from the US and Canada, anyone using it for radiation protection should seek foreign-produced seeds.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-4YJfwF1MQ&feature=player_embedded#!
Fukushima: BBC Debunked – 福島：BBC暴か
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+1 TCG +100 GoddardsJournal…gotta love that last boot comment!
The pro-nuke video is slick, but it’s a calculated gamble to win public opinion. In a pre-Internet era it would have fooled 99.99 percent of the public.
Today, the Internet makes their lies fall hollow. Ironically the nuclear industry helped build the Internet and there are no takebacks like they wish. They are liars and cowards and need to be exposed on a daily basis for what they represent and propagate.
The Internet was designed originally to withstand nuclear attacks…today it will also withstand nuclear industry attacks.
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Sigh…the arguing is still going on. Irradiated Californian do check your dosimeter readings very carefully over the next week-if you are indeed in California.
If you have read the news-you know that the weather is about to change dramatically. We are about to have rain.
Now you can answer any questions you will ever have. On your own. With no one upsetting you.
With no statistical data to argue about.
Because the results will be measurable from now on-right at your own house.
Let’s play nice. All that is happening now is that we are all about to get sick, very sick.
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Once again I find myself inexorably pulled into yet another spat, but these misunderstandings need to be resolved. Simple ‘us and them’ logic will not prevail here. Dragging someone out of their hut and burning them as a witch is beneath us, surely, in the 21st century? People make mistakes, things go wrong, we are going to need all the help we can get to fix this and a primative anger response directed at those we see as not in direct agreement with our views is not going to produce a good result.
No question there are those who support nuclear power who are beyond reasoning with. There may even be those who come here specifically to disrupt our progress, but I would expect them to be either thoughtless enough to spot easily (the ‘hit and run’ type who tend not to return) or sophisticated enough to stay hidden to most eyes. Rather than take a slightly pro-nuclear stand, this type would more likely employ tactics of disinformation, psuedo science, ‘crackpot’ theories etc.
Bottom line – it’s just like theft – if you’re not absolutely sure don’t cry ‘foul’.
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A possible different theory as to why hydrogen gas is formed is as follows:
As larger atoms break apart (fission) into smaller atoms, the smaller atoms can no longer hold as many neutrons as the larger atoms could. The excess neutrons attach themselves to protons in nearby molecules, and peal off those protons from the nearby molecules, thus forming the heavier isotopes of hydrogen (deuterium and tritium).
(See this link for a chart (Fig. 1.1) showing how, as the proton number of the nuclides increases, the neutron number increasingly exceeds the proton number:
http://www.onafarawayday.com/Radiogenic/Ch1/Ch1-1.htm )
As larger atoms break apart (fission) into smaller atoms, the excess neutrons need to find some place to go.
If cooling water is available, the excess neutrons may attach to the hydrogen isotope protium (containing no neutrons) in the water molecule to become the hydrogen isotope deuterium (containing one neutron) in the water molecule, or to become the hydrogen isotope tritium (containing two neutrons) in the water molecule.
If cooling water is not available, some of the smaller atoms, that the larger atoms need to break apart into, may include deuterium or tritium which then form hydrogen gas, thus giving the excess neutrons some place to go.
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