2011 Fairewinds Fundraiser, Maggie Gundersen, Founding Director Fairewinds Energy Education Corp, Dec. 27, 2011:
[...] With your help, Fairewinds Energy Education Corp has created more than 50 videos telling the truth about the failure of four General Electric Mark 1 BWR reactors that rattled the nerves of on-lookers around the world. Vivian Norris of the Huffington Post identified Fairewinds (www.fairewinds.com) as the “best site” for Fukushima analysis, observing that Arnie Gundersen “analyzes the information … in a calm and scientific way”. [...]
[A] radioactive debris island twice the size of Texas is nearing Hawaii months before it was anticipated.
Residents on the west coast of the US and Canada were bombarded with radioactive hot particles that have also contaminated farms and some food sources in the US.
And, all the governments involved have been eerily quiet and stopped monitoring in many locations in order to protect sales and profit margins rather than lives.
Thank you for viewing our work, and please consider us in your year-end giving plans (www.fairewinds.com/donation). It is thanks to financial contributions from people like you that Fairewinds Energy Education Corp, a 501(c)3 has been able to tell the truth and meet its educational mission. With the continued support of our volunteers and donors, Fairewinds will continue to educate people around the world about nuclear safety, engineering, and reliability issues. May we all work together to make 2012 healthy and safe.
Best wishes for 2012, Maggie Gundersen, Founding Director Fairewinds Energy Education Corp
Published: December 27th, 2011 at 3:08 pm ET
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I lost so many friends because I have had a radio show for 15 years and I covered this from the beginning… Tuned into Enews and also Arnie as well as several other sources from the beginning. They all thought I was nuts. I always said…NO FEAR>>> BUT VIGILANCE… preparedness etc. I was blocked, defriended and labled. I knew it because I listened to experts all over the world. This has been perhaps the largest PR campaign in the world to hide an event. But… here we are and the truth eventually comes out. Blessings in the year ahead as we all face this challenge. Get your body and minds strong and be the light for family and friends. I think it’s time I finally made a donation to Enews. They are ON IT!
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I agree Kauaisoapbox
The level of cover-up has been unprecedented and the willingness of people to ignore their peril has been truly discouraging.
No one I work with wants to discuss the ongoing releases.
Not one parent of my children’s friends wants to discuss Fukushima radiation or fallout in the US.
Even my husband tires of hearing my updates.
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MSM/nukers have been winning a crushing victory in this arena. I wish I could see an end to it, but there’s little chance. 90% don’t have the background or access to grasp what is fully happening, of the 10% or so who do, 99% simply believe what they are told, and then if they are not told anything, simply forget about it.
No one wants to even talk about the possibility that it might be worse than perhaps they could be saying, just possibly. Welcome to the Fuk-head club.
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Daughter walked in the rain today (west coast, don’t want to say where, concerned about the NDAA, aka Indefenite Detention Bill) to friend’s house and called me at work twice. Second time she got through to me and complained that after walking in the rain her face broke out in red spots. This has not happened before. I ordered spirulina and chlorella (both NOW products made in Taiwan where they test for radiation in their batches) from Amazon.
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Hey hu-ya-tu-ya KSB!
Nice!
You sound familiar. Are you still doing radio and if so, where please?
Glad you shared your thoughts. Keep on keeping on and keep us posted about that fast approaching flotsam. Yuck!
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This is an odd post with no accompanying commentary. XRD FOX often posts unrelated to the thread but usually with relevance, however I do not see the relevance of this old post. Could you explain? The reason I responded is that yesterday I checked to see any updates at the youtube channel this post originates from. Oddly the channel has dropped all videos realted to his country wide radiation report and now only has 4 unrelated videos. I was disappointed to see that as he had some decent stuff there and is also from Vancouver Island. I was hoping he would continue the work, but instead has erased it. ODd that.
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@ Kevin,
This video is completely related to the fallout that was present from BEGINNING ! Yes it’s an old video, duh !
From article above here:
“Residents on the west coast of the US and Canada were bombarded with radioactive hot particles that have also contaminated farms and some food sources in the US.
And, all the governments involved have been eerily quiet and stopped monitoring in many locations in order to protect sales and profit margins rather than lives.”
~
Sorry you are having a hard time following the story lines !
You seem to complain a lot !
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LOL. You want it both ways ?
U wrote:
“XRD FOX often posts unrelated to the thread but usually with relevance, however”
Give me a link to one !
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In a discussion at work about various past illnesses, with folks up to 25 years younger than I, I mentioned the Polio epidemic in New Orleans in 1951. The parents of youngsters said that it is so much better now that they don’t have to worry about epidemics and the like affecting their children.
I could not let them go unwarned.
So I told them the situation is far worse now. Now our children are in the radioactive fallout from the Japanese Fukushima Nuclear plant explosions and meltouts: which happen to be disasters on a scale that man has NEVER been faced with before.
In very short order I was talking to myself.
Perhaps I should have mentioned that in 1951 my parents never mentioned to their employees who worked downstairs from our home that their 2 kids upstairs had Polio: and both my parents and the Doctor who came by every day told anyone who inquired that it was a case of “virus X”.
It was common practice to use “virus X” as the explanation for illness during the Polio epidemic so as NOT TO ALARM neighbors and employees of small businesses.
That was Polio, New Orleans 1951.
This is Fukushima NUCLEAR RADIATION, Earth 2011 ad infinitum.
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@gr81 – Hello. Just print out this article and give it to anyone you want to educate on Fukushima:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2011/04/09/radiation-detected-in-drinking-water-in-13-more-us-cities-cesium-137-in-vermont-milk/
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I was thinking more like; just a spot of corium in their coffee.
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I couldn’t agree more kbox. I live on the north coast of california, no one wants to hear about this event. Very good PR/coverup cause no one knows a thing here.
Let us be kind, one to another, for we are each of us together in our pain!
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+1
Bless up!
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Shared the news with a friend in No. CA near the Oregon border back in April. She is a registered nurse. Sent pics of the Reactor 3 explosion, and pictures of #3 afterwards. Explained the seriousness of all the vaporized and pulverized MOX fuel going up in smoke. The response was, “I think all this bad news is fearmongering.”
Que sera. Even the people who have medical background and are smart enough to appreciate the seriousness of the situation are in denial.
Bottom line, it’ denial. Pure and simple. “Until it affects me I’ll simply choose not to believe it exists” or some such nonsense.
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Don’t you know it was the medical community along with the military that spawned this culture of denial of the harm of low dose radiation in the first place?
It’s a waste of time trying to sell this story to a CT scan and mammogram pusher…tell her to get a scrip for Prozac and forget everything you told her (she’s already irradiated)
Maggie Gundersen, you are an Angel of Mercy! You must have one awesome husband to give his support, oh yeah, that’s right, you do!
Congrats on your non-profit org status and i will donate soon when i get my head above water.
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With all due respect op.
I was here on enenews releasing this same information for free. Prior to every release that faire winds made.
Secondly they (fairewinds) have yet to approach the topic of the china syndrome taking place in reactor 1.
The fuel has remained critical in this reactor block since march 13th 2011. It was on april 11th that the fuel broke through primary containment, and June 14th that the fuel breached secondary containment.
The fuel is now residing 20ft into the soil below reactor 1. Releasing roughly a tera bequerral a day directly into the pacific ocean.
I have contacted geologists, nuclear engineers, civil. engineers, as well as radiation contamination specialists. Wrote several letters of concern to both japanese and american journals of science, outsourcing my main points to several hundred threads and contacted over 100,000 online users, to further expose the fraud taking place in Fukushima Japan.
I am outraged to see a please donate sign to fairewinds organization. As I feel this particular agency is a poster board / misinformation source. They clearly put no sense of urgency to this crisis; I am appalled that you would support their work here on enenews.
Each and everyone of our ene-users has done more effort in disclosing real time events than the entire staff of fairewinds. We monitor the webcam daily, reporting all anomalies on site. We urge the states, and local municipalities to take precaution towards the coming pandemic. We are the real heros.
I feel if anyone should be receiving contribution, it should be enenews. (donate to this site). Maybe you could even consider paying users such as whoopie, xdrfox, mark, james 2 ect… for their hard work, as undercover journalists.
We should be using the profits, to send our users to japan; To both provide relief to those displaced by this crisis, as well as investigating and hampering the tepco dis-information cycle.
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Tacoma
Your comments have been very much appreciated. You have raised important questions and issues, as well as educating Enenews readers.
I do think that Arnie has put his reputation and livelihood on the line by speaking out publicly on Fukushima and about fallout in Japan and the US.
I respect him very much for his efforts.
However, I agree that he under-states the state of the reactors. The infrared images posted by Fukushima Diary of reactor 1 demonstrate that this corium is “china syndrome.”
I believe that Arnie has tried to legitimize his advocacy by limiting the sources he uses for his data and analyses to only those that are indisputable (e.g., relying on Tepco’s data).
This is strategic on his part. The mainstream media and nuke cheerleaders would quickly ban him from the public stage if he were to extrapolate from data that may be accurate, but are not officially sanctioned.
Arnie has chosen wisely in my opinion because his public advocacy has been indispensable, even while we may believe he understates actual conditions.
There are many different advocacy roles to play and yours and Arnie’s are complementary…
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Good to see you majia!
(long time no see).
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For Arnie to utilize Tepco’s fake data (and they have been proved in court to fake radiation data in the past), is for him to collaborate with Tepco in their negligence and genocide.
Arnie’s failure to recognize the increase in re-criticalities, the obvious iodine increases, the iodine cloud which has already moved across the planet and will cause many thyroid cancers, only serves Tepco’s myth that the coriums are nice and cool and resting on a floor somewhere. It stops him from recognizing and telling people about the hot corium lavas that are burrowing into the earth, threatening hydrovolcanic explosions, and also possible underground nuclear explosions.
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“There are many different advocacy roles to play and yours and Arnie’s are complementary… ”
Spot on!:) I appreciate us all.
and @ kauaisoapbox: I’m sorry:( You’re not alone. We’ve all lost people we care about over this I’m sure. I myself have lost half friends and all but 2 family members outside my immediate. BUT, the ones that DO listen appreciate the information and understand my intentions. It was rough especially at first with the namecalling, ridiculing, labeling like you said (I’m sure it’s still going on I just don’t hear it anymore because they don’t speak to me..which is FINE by me;) but sooo worth it when you know you’re doing what is right, and especially when someone benefits from that? Icing on the cake!:) I’m SURE you’ve helped many more with your program. Thanks for doing that!:)
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Is reputation more important than saving lives?
I have given up many opportunities to be a part of this community.
I only wish that Arnold Gunderson would do the same. Being the fact that he is essentially asking for a hand out…
The way I see it:
Arnold is playing both sides of the field…
In one set of shoes:
He is anti nuclear and seeks to destroy the nuclear industry…
In the other:
He seeks to have a solid reputation in the nuclear industry…
This to me shows a very large conflict of interest.
One that begs me to question where his allegiance truly stands.
Fairewinds has been collecting data for some time now…
Its time faire winds made some actual ground breaking assessments using that data.
In fact they should be able to estimate and publish several key arguments; In light of the state of the fuel melt; On the basis of any single radionuclide captured…
In my very real opinion Fairewinds is an umbrella company set up by the united states congress.
They are using this agency to collect area sampling, from all over the nation. To minimize the state of urgency and panic. As well as assure the antinuclear communities that all is well in fuku town…
Food for thought.
Trust your first instincts…
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Great comment. I believe we’ve had this discussion before here. There seems to be alot that Arnie is NOT saying. Could it be what your saying here? That he’s working for the Gov? Something just seems out of whack. Whenever a new video comes out from him, we get excited only to be let down. It’s messed up. THIS IS NOT A GAME FOR the people of JAPAN. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE, ISN’T IT?
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Tacoma I don’t agree on all points.
I’m not sure that Arnie was always on the nuke payroll, and I’m pretty sure Congress is clueless as to what is going on in Fukushima.
However, I was one of the first to point out right here that he has had very important information from the start that he has not disclosed, in fact, in many cases he has distributed disinformation intentionally – for which I do agree with you.
For awhile I was trying to figure out if he was just blind, or ignorant. But I’ve come to the conclusion that he is being paid for these statements now.
If you’ll recall, back in May/June the urgency of his statements was increasing. And then, sometime in the fall, he became much calmer – perhaps when he started getting major TV appearances.
He did earn the ability to sell his messages to the highest bidder when he made the videos and got the attention in the first place.
However you cannot be at peace with yourself in this world by selling lies and misinforming millions of people to the point their health is damaged.
Someday we will all need to make our peace with ourselves – money will be useless then.
I personally have chosen the path of doing what I think is right. I’ve made mistakes along the way, and I guarantee to all of you I will make more, but I will promise to give it my level best to not blow radioactive smoke at anybody.
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Spot on James. TY
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I agree with you Tacomagroove! I was here in the beginning too, along w/ whoopie & xdrfox. I couldn’t put my finger on it for a while now…but I believe you are right. Arnie’s video’s have been “sterile” for quite some time. In the beginning..there was a LOT of information, that we, us ENENEWSERS, took upon ourselves to become educated in the Nuclear Lingo. Lately it seems as if Arnie is sitting on the fence..giving us little information..or information we already knew months ago. I too am wondering “what gives”.
Thank you for your insight! And yes.. I agree! We need to donate to THIS site! We have educated HUNDREDS of people on the dangers of Fukushima when the MSM has all but blacked it out. Take care, and may God Bless!
Cindy
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I believe Arnie’s “tone” mellowed immediately after the vid or podcast where he mentioned that a friend of his in the State Department had advised him that Hitllary Clinton had already signed a pact in April with Canada and Japan to OFFICIALLY DOWNPLAY the nuclear disaster and it’s effects on OUR NATIONS.
I cannot believe that the current obsama islamocommucratic regime of corruption would let a statement like that slide without a thoroughly INTIMIDATING INVESTIGATION and OVERT THREATS to all those who “challenge” the regime’s lies.
As far as “tone” of message. I would much rather listen to Arnie Gundersen than Alex Jones, even if scripts were exactly the same.
I have also found that my enemies are much harder or impossible to get truthful information from if they KNOW that I DESPISE them and PLAN THEIR DEMISE.
I believe Arnie IS ON OUR SIDE and call it a handout or not I DONATE!!
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Many have reported a long trail of dead bodies are said to have followed the Clintons, from way back in their time in Arkansas. Does anyone remember Vince Foster and how he was thought to have died?
The head of the Dept. of Commerce whose plane went down in Croatia, just about the time the news came out trade and military secrets had been sold to China?
“Ronald Harmon “Ron” Brown (August 1, 1941–April 3, 1996) was the United States Secretary of Commerce, serving during the first term of President Bill Clinton. …” (from Wikipedia)
Connect the dots ….
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Yes Arnie does not use brutal truth but a gentle truth for the reason majia stated. I personally think Arnie is a wonderful advocate and has done a superb job informing the public and while many may not agree with his style, he is capable of walking a thin line without falling to the dark side, so to speak, and I for one greatly appreciate all the work he has done and continues to do. JMHO
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Hey TG,
This is both bold and long overdue, Thank you.
As the first comment on this thread pointed out, what we have experienced here is one of the largest issues management campaigns in the history of nuclear power generation. Ran by the most effective people in the business of shaping public opinion.
I have stated elsewhere and repeatedly, that Uncle Arnie, while celebrated as a whistleblower, actually has alot of skin in the game and has made a career of managing issues for this industry.
It is only those very few, yourself and the posters you mention, who care enough to commit extraordinary effort and time to such issues who are able to see through the veil and understand the delicate and subtle role of people like the crew at Fairewinds.
You are absolutely right, and deserve a great deal of kudos yourself for an undying commitment and altruistic approach to the issues.
I have been on the site since its first day and have noted your involvement as well as the others you point out, some of whom have a history dating back to the BP disaster in the gulf where nowhere near as an effective issues management effort was undertaken. Of course you can see, smell and feel oil, not so with radiation.
Fairewinds was the only outfit to point out the obvious and hedge against the real impacts in so doing, and therefor is celebrated amongst less sophisticated onlookers and those who sought out anything remotely related to truth with respect to this issue. Fairewinds deserves credit for at least providing basic, if not obvious information in a sea of misinformation and outright lies.
However, the role of this organization in framing this debate shadows any good intention of being the leading source of contrary information. And on that basis agree that support for ENENEWS is better placed and supports a platform for views not entirely managed by industry, government and military.
Keep up the great work, it is appreciated by those of us who know.
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I’m donating to Fairewinds, too. Their tireless committment to spreading the truth in an accurate, unbiased way is really unequaled in the field. Arnie Gunderson is a hero in my book, and his science and research are meticulous. Tacomagroove, I really don’t think that you are spreading your misinformation for malicious reasons, but you just don’t understand things very well.
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The contaminated food will kill people. fast food restaurants or supermarkets will have to start testing for radiation because otherwise they canbe successfully sued for poisoning customers. the farm soil ca still be remediated or protected from further contamination if the governments wake up now. NorthAmerican population can still be saved if protection measures are taken before it is turned into a big radioactive desert.
Contaminated food is what got me sick after Cernobyl. It took 4 years before I felt really tired then, I expect it will take less than a year for people in NorthAmerican at this high level of food contamination and ongoing poison in the air.
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And the children who are contaminated NOW–will suffer with Thyroid Cancer in five years, give or take a year or so. And depending on the level of radiation. Some will have other diseases, heart issues, birth defects, genetic damage, lost of fertility and mucb more. This is just criminal, and any government who ignores this poison in our air and oceans –needs to have representatives elected to reflect more care for the citizens. If Obama admin has “smoothed over” the Japan Nuclear Disaster –they need to come out and tell the true situation..
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We ene-users should be saving for wireless web cams, we should be sending our users into the hotzone to analyze the current situations on site. We need updates on reactors 5 and 6. (live feeds).
We need, more investigative journalists.
We need answers.
We wont get those things by donating to another outside agency that’s main goal is to end all nuclear power. What ‘We need’ is to: End all of the criminal omissions that are taking place in this current crisis!
If we do not we will always be in the spin cycle. We will always be resurfacing old news. Without answers. There is no point in funding fairewinds. It seems they are more interested in funding, than they are in urgency. They are more vested in profits than they are at saving lives.
That is what I see by this statement…
Shame on fairewinds.
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Tacoma… All due respect to you!…I have also followed your posts from the beginning. I am a lurker here but have been very active since March 12th in other areas. Keep it coming!
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TG I’ve been offline a couple of hours…but noticed this MONEY DRIVE of Fairwinds in the last 2 posts and it turned me off RIGHT AWAY. What in the world are they thinking? Either do your work for the GOOD OF ALL…or dont. Begging for donations seems ‘out of touch’, imo. You dont see Busby begging for money or Helen C. And when is he gong to mention the corium? Something just doesn’t make sense with either ISSUE.
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I would much rather see any profits collected by enenews users to be attributed to:
Paying users that are clearly working hard. ( ps. this does not include myself).
Sending our enenews users to japan for special assignments: such as setting up new webcams on site; Doing oceanic sampling; or even paying for interviews with tepco laborers;
Or even:
Donating to the actual victims of the nuclear crisis.
Feel free to add other things you would like to see funding to below this post!:
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I heartily agree about oceanic sampling…this is going to become increasingly necessary as time goes on and radiation (as well as other toxic pollution) disperses. Is anything at all being done about this?
Not that I know how to do it myself, but if anyone does, please step up to the plate.
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NOt exactly sampling..but a a few sailboats coming from the East Pacific oceans are carrying dosimeter badges –and will report debris and any radiation as they sail to the USA via the N. Pacific sea routes. Should any data be reported, will post here as well. Hope is no dosimeter will trigger..
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You know who is really good at stuff like that? The limeys from Great Britain. Hundreds of years ago they sailed the pacific to record the depths of virtually the whole ocean. By hand, with a sinker and rope. LOL. I can’t believe they aren’t out there evaporating a liter of water every square mile and finding out how many disintegrating atoms there are. This is a fairly routine test. Charlie Tuna can do it, but it is a conflict of interest.
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I would go. I may be old but i’m mad about boats and my M.A. and M.S. (albeit in totally useless disciplines) might look good on the manifest.
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MS as in Multiple Sclerosis? Just wondering, risabee or am I reading this wrong.
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No, no, a couple of useless degrees. They might remotely help a boatload of volunteers establish a smattering of street cred …
it was a bit tongue in cheek
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Hey TG,
Always good to see your input. Bless for good works done well.
Let us not discount the fact that Arnie was among the voices in the wilderness of denial and cover-up propaganda from the govt media machines since the beginning. He came when many of we the concerned EneNewzers were reaching out for any and all real info about this ongoing world’s largest disaster.
You said:
“They are more vested in profits than they are at saving lives.”
Let us also bear in mind that valuable knowledge is power and it has saved lives here, in that many were encouraged to follow the heart and seek more information about what it takes to bring comfort to the mind, and wisdom of the physical necessities that heal and detox the body.
Because of the real information compared to the real dis-information and cover-up that Arnie and his production crew have shined the light on, many have benefited because he went where the lame stream media propaganda machine dares not go.
Still, our basic philosophy might be this.:
By yer money changing ye shall be known.
Time revels all things.
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I AGREE JT: TIME WILL TELL … BUT HOW MUCH TIME DOES JAPAN HAVE?
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Tick–tock—tick—tock—tick….
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I will agree he came at the right time and the right place…
In police terms. That makes him a suspect. Regardless of the shoe.
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Oh man. I hear ya TG. The TIMING IS SUSPECT.
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.
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Dear admin – Just posted in from Boston area nuke plant please headline this link –
http://www.boston.com/Boston/metrodesk/2011/12/pilgrim-nuclear-plant-shut-down-because-safety-relief-valve-leak/iGrt6XDLKSsJAem1djJ3aJ/index.html?p1=News_links
As for Gundersen asking for money I believe he should state why donations are needed? What are the details of what this money will be used for? Independent research is all well and good, but the data must speak for itself. From what I have seen Fairewinds has not reported any data that is any different from what Russia Today has reported except that RT’s reports are not full of low ball estimates. Why would you ask for support if your research data is compiled of information already documented? Support people who are actually doing the reporting onsite like safecast and you will get proven results. Enenews has made the most scientific reporting to date on the events of Fukushima with deft accuracy. The media should learn from this site.
As for the article posted, it is about an east coast reactor that has been having leaks and is scheduled to be shut down. Since it is in my home town I pray to god it stays off.
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I’ll post that to HP…thanks Gramps.
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I’ll guarantee you that RT has an agenda also.
I don’t know if I could articulate it well, but even if it’s nothing more than being a thorn in the US government’s side, it’s an agenda.
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As far as I’m concerned, I see no problem in sending a couple of bucks their way for the information they’ve shared already. NPR doesn’t need my money this year anyway since they are too busy ignoring the problem.
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I can’t send money ANYWHERE…so I’ll stick to spreading the news. If I could, I would send to Enenews.
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I agree with many of the comments made here, especially about Arnie’s silence on the ongoing fission.
Do you think perhaps he has been effectively silenced using “national security” censorship laws (many exist)?
I’ve been been criticizing US domestic and foreign policy for years and no one has ever paid the least bit of attention.
However, my blogging about Fukushima has attracted all kinds of rather scary responses, including having my email hacked and being lied to by public officials.
Fukushima is being “managed” like no other event in US history, as far as I’m concerned.
So, perhaps Arnie has been gagged on certain issues…?
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Could be. Look at how many time the EPA contacted you.
FUKUSHIMA GAME CHANGER FOR THE WORLD
“Ve vill silence you” Heil Hitler!
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This is a valid observation, in doing some research for a piece I was going to write on this topic I contacted fairewinds for clarity on issues related the spent fuel pool at reactor three a number of weeks after the explosion and shortly after Arnies video on the topic. I received no response other than a carefully crafted form letter describing what you allude to. They chose to not respond as a result of potential legal issues that may arise. I do not know if it was specific to my inquiry or just a blanket form letter Arnie provides to any and all inquiries but regardless there is no doubt legal hurdles when dealing with these issues. However, that is simply another aspect of issues and perception management and the scare of law suits has never silenced committed and genuine folks interested in unearthing the realities of such game changing events.
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Very interesting Kevin. What in the hell is up with that? I thought they “welcomed” questions ect. He’s even said that in Videos. Ummm..pretty strange.
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I posted my original request to Arnie a few weeks back here on the site. I did not however post the reply from Fairewinds. I suspect that my questions were too pointed and also involved a potential for speculation if he replied. Basically the gist of my inquiry and the piece I intended to write was that the SFP at #3 essentially went up with the explosion and was therefor the worlds largest dirty bomb. An assertion with horrendous implications I noticed Arnie and all commentators chose to obfuscate versus underscore.
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Arnie knew from the moment he saw the video that the explosion of #3 was the MOX core – as did every other nuclear engineer that is familiar with a reactor.
He also knew that the SFP3, although damaged from debris, was holding water and intact.
I don’t know why he won’t tell the world what he knows.
Majia brings up a good point. I suspect the pressure is very high when you publicly contradict what the president is saying, and I was not surprised to see him tone it down. I was shocked however to see him actively put out information he knew not to be true.
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I agree that the pressure is high and Arnie would not have garnered mainstream notoriety on the issue had he gone out furhter on the limb and exposed more than he chose to. However I disagree that the SFP at 3 is largely intact. Quite the contrary in my opinion.
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I agree with you on that point, but it was intact until just a few weeks ago.
The INPO report in November confirmed that the fuel was accounted for in the pool after the explosion.
And we know that the pool held water, and despite Arnies “1 spent fuel assembly video” – remember the one where you can see a second one right beside the first? despite that video trying to sell the opposite, it’s 100% true that the SFP3 was intact until early December.
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I am sorry but I do not agree. There is a great deal of persuasion for us to believe precisely that, however if one is able to cut through the rhetoric and just look at the evidence it strongly suggests entirely the opposite of what you pose. Not decisevly mind you, but from my perspective, and I have looked long and hard at this, it is more likely than not that the fuel was indeed affected, dislodged and likely sent up at the time of the original explosion.
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Show me one shred of evidence the spent fuel pool exploded. There is none – It physically could not have, and still hold water afterwards – which it did.
I will admit that I was very surprised to find out the pool made it through that explosion intact – but it did.
There are lots of people who want you to think the pool blew up so there are lots of articles to that effect, but all untrue.
And the logs shown in the INPO document prove that it was intact afterwards.
Kevin – I believe I have studied this particular point more carefully and more thoroughly than anyone else outside of the people onsite – and they aren’t talking. You can trust me on this one…
The reason I studied it was a bit selfish at first. I wanted to know if MOX could have blown out of the reactor and traveled through the air to the US. I couldn’t find anyone to confirm or deny it.
When I figured out that not only it could, but it did. Well, since then I’ve been on a crusade to get the truth out.
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James we have had this discussion in detail just a few days ago. I asked you to show me evidence, not rhetoric that it is intact. More than once. However you did not.
Once again I did not, have not and will not say the explosion occured in the pool. Unlike you I am unable to draw definitive conclusions based on the materials that have been provided. Which is why I asked you to provide the evidence that you rest your 100% rock solid conclusion on.
Like you, I live on the West Coast and I also was seflishly concerned about the impacts of the explosions on our coast, which also prompted me to do a remarkable amount of reseach into just this topic. I have also, like you, spent hours and hours digging up details. In doing so I concluded that the spent fuel in reactor was affected by the explosion, as I have repeatedly said (note I did not mention that the explosion occurred in the pool in fact I would feel better if like Arnie and othes insinuate, the explosion occured above the pool, that would forece the fuel down and not up)
Moreover as I have already said, if the core did explode as you adamently declare is 100 percent the case, then it follows, that the pool would have undoubtedly been affected.
In the end the onus lies on you to back up your declaration of 100 positive conclusions. As I have repeatedly stated that, based on what I have seen of the material provided an air tight, 100 percent conclusion is impossible and I would be more than happy to see what you have to rest this opinion on. I have not seen adequate evidence to suggest the pool was unaffected and intact. You say 100 percent it is (or was) lets see the evidence. I am happy to share that conclusion with you but at this point cannot. Hopefully you have something I have not seen.
I have some material to provide that supports what I am discussing but I must go out with my daughter right now, however can respond when I return.
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xenon cloud = plutonium.
Plutonium released at 1.3 trillion bequerral…
Surely this is sufficient enough information to support that the reactor 3 sfp is damaged.
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http://zippychat.com/room/8917
CAPTD AND I CREATED THIS ROOM LONG TIME AGO. GO DISCUSS THINGS
Keep the link for LATER if nothing else, OK?
(i’ll be there for a bit if you want)
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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just pick a name, any name and your in.
Unless you dont want to. I’m getting off here soon. BAD TOOTHACHE TODAY.
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…please confirm via this picture SFP 3 is..upright and reasonably intact though damaged…right?
In an incindiary situ…the greater damage is generally at the origin of the explosion…
It seems reactor3 would have blown then the actual damage of the blast to the SFP ..not the other way around.
The material causing the damage MOX from 3..and its self-ignition properties.
..I think the SPF 3 and the CSFP are “cooking”(all really) ….larger emissions will tell …eventually…not too long… methinks…
If it collapsed…..maybe when Tepco went technocolor … there was the combustive type cloud patterning and the “worklight” arrived…
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oh ya the damn picture.
http://www.satimagingcorp.com/galleryimages/worldview-2-fukushima-daiichi-031711.jpg
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@James…I believe you..but hey… around here… that may not be a plus…
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James,
Lets be clear instead of finger pointing because after all is said and done it is apparent that we are working toward the same ends, and discovering the reality of the status of SFP 3.
You have provided very little, besides a great deal of rhetoric, and a reference to an ” insiders report” (INPO) but with no link. This does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the fuel pool is in tact and therefor the fuel is as well. Arnie Gunderson has in fact provided more detail and a visual that suggests entirely the opposite. However I do not rest my conculusion on that evidence alone.
I understand there are endless bits of data suggesting that the fuel pool is in tact. However none, absolutely none of it is conclusive. And as I have said already on this page. This is an issue that should be easily clarified. Providing irrefutable evidence should be very easy, as Arnie;s video of the SFP would suggest and countless other bits of data would support. Instead of clear, plain data that is irrefutable all we are provided with is endless rhetoric designed to persuade, obfuscate and deflect. Moreover, there is also contradicting reports, evidence that information pertaining to the explosion and its impact on the SFP has been completely false from the get go, claiming it was a hydrogen explosion versus a detonation. I can go on and on with clear and unrefutable evidence that a cover up has occurred and no definitive or conclusive evidence provided that the feul pool at 3 is in tact.
This is my point.
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Kevin, if you haven’t read one of the reports that is a key piece of data and you need me to find it for you and give it to you
… and when I don’t “link” it for you then I’m withholding information?
Doesn’t that sound a bit self-centered.
If you are pulling on the same oar as me – get yourself educated on the details, then we’ll debate.
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hey whoopie,
who is your request to join another chat list directed toward?
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Kevin yes we’ve discussed this several times.
There are literally hundreds of bits of data to support the #3 reactor exploding and none to support an explosion in the SFP3. I can’t possibly go through them all. However here are the highlights.
1. The shape of the explosion. An explosion in the pool would not be vertical – it would be inverted pyramid. From the shape of the pool it had to come from the core.
2. The SFP held water and was intact after the explosion. Blast damage cannot go around a corner. If the blast occurred in the pool then the walls and structures outside and below the pool walls could not have been damaged, and they were.
3. From the recent INPO report: “Subsequent analyses and inspections determined that the spent fuel pool water levels never dropped below the top of fuel in any spent fuel pool and that no significant fuel damage had occurred. Current investigation results indicate that any potential fuel damage may have been caused by debris from the reactor building explosions.”
4. Photographic evidence indicated that the SPF was intact and holding water after the explosion. There were many pictures of green water in the pool
5. Analysis of plutonium from the explosion has indicated it came from the core (indicating MOX, which was in the core, not in the pool)
6. The 11/11/17 report on “Progress Status Classified by Issues (Photos and Figures) – describes detailed activities on page 7 of efforts to restore normal cooling to the SPF3, with photos. By contrast, the same document describes detailed efforts with diagrams to seal the RPV for units 1 and 2. For #3 there are no details, and no diagrams – only – “flooding RPV with water”. They surely would not put in new cooling system if there were nothing to cool.
As I said, there are literally hundreds of other pieces of data. However if those are not enough to convince you, then they won’t convince you either.
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For some reason I cannot reply to your most recent comment with your oft repeated list of 6 points, the option to reply has been removed from your post.
That said, you have provided this list before and I WILL ONCE AGAIN REPEAT.
My issue has nothing to do with the list you provide. I am not, have not and will not argue about where the explosion occurred. The issue I am concerned about is simple. What is the status of the SFP at number and the fuel it once contained. Period.
Your constant deflection is starting to trouble me, to be honest, after this many repeats.
To be perfectly clear. I have seen no conclusive data that supports the assertion that the fuel pool is in tact and unharmed.
You have not changed my mind but have only confused this issue with where the explosion occurred something that also is indefinitive and only serves as a distraction .
Finally, I will repeat this as well. If you are correct that the explosion occurred in the MOX fuel core is that not already a huge issue? larger than the collapse of at SFP 4 with only a partial core and no mox fuel? And is not possible that, if you are correct, and the core blew with mox fuel resulting in the biggest explosion of the at least four explosions that occurred on site, it would have impacted the SFP and the Fuel it contained – potentially releasing it and/or causing further criticality?
SO your assertions and list only serve to support my concern that the fuel in SFP 3 has been impacted. It does nothing to refute them IT ONLY SUPPORTS MY POINT.
I hope that is clear.
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Nope Kevin it is not. It only serves that you are very much trying to confuse the issue.
I refer you to a report that says the fuel in the SFP is intact.
I explain to you how the fuel could not have come out of the pool during the explosion.
I refer you to another report where they are doing huge amounts of work desalinating and cooling the pool that you say contains no fuel.
And you continue to scream “you are avoiding giving me any evidence”. Louder and louder for effect.
I’m not sure what evidence would be evidence in your mind, but if that’s avoiding, maybe you should be doing something else with your time…
No, I haven’t counted the fuel rods in the pool, and neither has anybody else on earth. I feel like anything short of that is not evidence in your mind.
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Kevin,
Why are you questioning James2 ‘s findings so much? He provided a lot of support in favor of what he is saying ,and objective, not subjective facts. I find it odd that you put so much effort in questioning his findings and also I decided to learn more about fellow enenews posters, understand them better since we are all in the same radioactive boiling pot.
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I am not questioning James findings. Just the conclusion that the SFP at 3 is intact. I have stated why repeatedly. I have spent a great deal of time on this issue in particular and would like for James to be right. IF only there was data to support these conclusions.
This to me is a pivotal point and a significant issue among all the issues related to Fukushima. Personally I believe to be one of the most significant, which may explain my requiremnt of real data that supports the conclusion James makes which I hope is true.
I am not sure what you are referring to when you mention your interest in learning more about the site participants but I do hope that this detail answers your question and helps you understand my desire to get to the bottom of this issue.
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questioning is good! it is why we are all here
…by reading, and considering both James2 and Kevin’s position, it allows us all deeper understanding and the ability to point out and add to the discussion, perhaps unconsidered information.. I keep reading both, and keep considering both sides.. I thank you both for being so willing to continue to attempt to explain your positions..it is educational and informative.. at least for me 
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Well Kevin, I shouldn’t make you feel good for long to believe my argument, because regardless of the state SFP3 was in after the explosion in March, I feel pretty strongly that it fell down at the beginning of December and has been burning – or at least releasing massive amounts of radiation, since then.
My argument about the explosion is necessary because i believe there is every intent to sweep the explosion of #3 under the rug and keep installing MOX in nuclear powerplants.
If we learn nothing else from Fukushima – we must face the fact that MOX Exploded and destroyed millions of lives and and entire economy – and has mankind’s very future in its grasp right now.
If I’m proven wrong i’ll back down immediately. Until then, I will not back off – it is that important to all of us…
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Thank you Kevin for your reply and for explaining why it is important to you to confirm the SP3 situation. I know you are located in BC from your posts – it is likely you are subjected to radiation levels closer to those in Japan. At what point wil you consider evacuating elsewhere in Cnada or in orth America?
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This is a frustrating thread, or maybe its just me as I cannot reply in the proper place.
Alexa, with respect to evacuation, I had considered it right away. But I am just unable to do so. Also, as stated here often, people think you are nuts when you go on about it. So I have resolved the fact that I risk exposure and there is little I can do if I choose to stay. Its kinda like smoking really, people do so regardless of the risk.
An James, to bring some closure to this discussion I again say that I hope you are right and you have no doubt done enough work to convince yourself, its just that you have not convinced me. That said you raise good points about the MOX reactor core being the source of the explosion and I cannot disagree with you there, I can only hope for some real evidence to prove these claims.
Both of us are interested in learning about these details because of the affects on our communities and the ones we love and in my case my young daughter. I want that fuel pool to be contained but despite this bias I try to keep a clear head and gather the information required to make a solid decision. With SFP 3 I cannot properly conclude it survived the explosion and the fuel is contained.
IF you do come across something conclusive which you can link to please do.
With respect to your INPO link of the past, I dont spend everyday on this site, simply because it is impossible for me to do so, so I apologize for missing that link but even without it I can determine that it wont change my mind. I have spent a career evaluating and maybe I am a little cynical, but the bottom line for me is that the evidence to prove the pool is intact should be easily presented and irrefutable. So far it has not been and I have come across alariming amounts of evidence contrary to the official narrative which implies the pool is intact when the evidence does not support it.
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What is the INPO report? Can you provide a link?
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INPO
Special Report on the Nuclear Accident at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
It’s a pretty good report – it’s released by industry insiders, so it does spin things slightly, but there are a lot of facts in it.
Do a search, I don’t save links.
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James.
I have replied once again to your last response. It is out of order becuase the reply button on your last few posts is not their for me to press, so the response is out of order in the thread. For that I apologize.
Also you do forward a couple of good points.
1) the water in the fuel
You suggest this is evidence that the fuel pool in intact. However, it is clear that pooring tons of water into these contiainments on a steady basis has resulted in flooding of the entire containment. To my mind this did not prove anything accept that they are able to poor tones of water into a constantly leaking seive of an exploded building and the picture Arnie provided was of a lonely rod somehwere in the building which lacked the entire apparatus required to hold the spent fuel rods. To my thinking, if this was indeed the SFP from 3 it was undoubtedly a sign of damage. One rod with no supporting apparatus is clear evidence the original storage circumstance was impacted.
2) the INPO report
Who authored it? What did they base their conclusions on? If like most others they made this assertion based on the “consensus” of media reports and other venues of misinformation thn it is not credible. I say this becuase nowhere and I mean nowhere has it been proven irrefutably that the pool is in intact, however there are hundreds of bits of data and supportive evidence to suggest it is not.
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Saw it.
Read the report. I’m a little annoyed about it because I linked to it several times last week and never got a single response.
It’s underwritten by the Industry of Nuclear Powerplant Operators – who I would assume would give the rosiest view they could.
I actually saw it held out by the nuke proponents as proof that things are under control – reading painted anything but that picture for me.
There is a great deal of good information in the document. The descriptions of the explosions alone are good – although it does not come right out and say the core blew on #3, you can only come to that conclusion from the various pieces of data in the document.
The reactor logs at the very end of the appendix are where it really hits you. They worked 24/7 for 36 hours trying to keep the #3 core from exploding. No doubt several folks had to have given their lives – the radiation levels before the explosion were astronimical. The pressure in the RPV at one time was more than 1000 psi – releasing that much pressure alone would be enough to cause an explosion like we saw from #3.
After the explosion, it seems they all pretty much gave up. If you read about the #4 explosion it caught them all by surprise. (if I recall correctly they abandoned the site for some hours after the #3 explosion.)
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The hypocrisy and lies of the global nuclear lobby
http://nuclear-news.net/2011/12/27/the-hypocrisy-and-lies-of-the-global-nuclear-lobby/
“Has anyone noticed that Japan well and truly stuffed up in its planning and setting up of the Fukushima nuclear power plant – and yet is now preaching to India on the unsafety of India’s nuclear plants?
I’m predicting that the nuclear lobby will come out with a whole lot of guff about how much safer nuclear technology is now. How much they’ve learned from the disaster, so we can all rest assured that the nuclear industry is now safe! – Christina Macpherson, 27 Dec 11
NEW NUKE CARTOON:
http://antinuclearinfo.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/latest-lie-from-nuclear-lob.gif
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EXCELLENT POST
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Arnie Gunderson is not an expert on the health effects of radiation. He has stated that on numerous occasions. Since most of the dire warnings concerning the radiological releases would be referred to as health concerns, why would he be making lots of “scary” statements as to the health effects of this disaster?
At least he has made the fairly strong statement about the potential need to evacuate Tokyo in the event that spent fuel pool no. 4 collapses!
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And Arnie highlighted the fact that Japan would be burning radioactive debris.
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In my opinion the constant focus on SFP at #4 was largely a distraction. If SFP 4 presents such a huge problem if it simply falls over, what of the SFP at 3 which blew sky high? How does a potential collapse supercede or present a larger problem worthy of evacuating one of the worlds most populated cities while the MOX fuel explosion at 3 and resulting dispersal of the SFP presents no such equivalent reaction? This is precisely the reasoning that tipped me off with Arnie, and is a tactic often used in distracting from real issues.
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All this is very interesting and you have valid questions.
Japan is the Elephant in the room and nobody wants to TOUCH IT. Maybe fearful of the Government if the truth was told.
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WE SHOULD ALL write Greg Palast, asking him if he’s getting the same impression from Arnie.
contact@gregpalast.com
And if he HASN’T noticed, Emails will ALERT him and he’s not afraid to speak out either.
Write Paul Langley too
pauljeremylangley@yahoo.com.au
WE NEED TO GET MORE OPINIONS ON THIS MATTER imo.
I’m writing them both.
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PALAST READS ALL EMAILS
SO DOES PAUL
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This is an interesting suggestion Whoopi.
Palast, as a good investigative journalist whose recent book touched on his inside scoop on Fukushima should be well aware of ENENEWS or at least someone on his team should be. A bit of a lobby from ENENEWS fans is a good idea.Not so much to encourage him to do a witch hunt on somes credibility but rather encourage him to build on the work he has already done and investigate the SFP at number three to see if in fact it is intact and whether or not the original explosion was the worlds largest dirtiest bomb gone unreported or not. And in so doing he will expose those who have worked to under expose the issue and deflect attention to the SFP at #4 in an blatant cover up of the implications of the explosion at #3.
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WELL IT CANT HURT TO WRITE – MIGHT HELP.
WRITE PAUL LANGLEY TOO.
I agree. Don’t make it about Arnie = but our concerns about the facts that we DO know. Hope EVERYBODY WRITES HIM TOO.
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Hi Kevin.. I thought the biggest problem with SPF 4 falling over was the intact fuel assembly that was being stored there while maintenance was being done.. not spent fuel but FUEL and therefore a bigger problem if it falls over and can more easily become critical as opposed to actual spent fuel..
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Tes that is one aspect of the reporting that has been clear. Oddly, it was never clear that given the core was removed, whole or in part, what then led to the explosion at 4? However that is another issue not related to your point.
I am not trying to downplay, 4, nor am I some doom and gloom freak who wishes the worst. Quite the opposite. It seems obvious to me that if SFP 3 was intact there would be certain, clear and unrefutable evidence. IT should not be difficult to gather what is required to draw such a conclusion. However nothing of the sort has occurred, rather there is endless persuasive rhetoric in its abscence. A real red flag for me.
To respond to your point specifically, I understand that the core issue is a real one and one we should be concerned about, however the potential of extremely large amounts of spent fuel and possibly spent MOX fuel, is, in my opinion more pressing than the potential of future disaster at 4. The incident at 3 has occurred, contains exponentialy more spent fuel, could also involve the core of MOX fuel, An entire core not a reportedly partial core at SFP 4. The reasons are endless why 3 is of far more concern than what could possibly happen at 4 sometime in the future.
The only arguement for all the focus on 4 is that there is a possibility we can still do something about it, where as the horse has clearly left the barn in the instance of reactor 3.
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I have recently read that none of the SFP’s had MOX and that #3 had a full fresh load of MOX in August 2010.
Asssuming that is correct, the real problem with #4 is that the SFP has both the new fuel that was ready to go in, plus a pretty large load of spent fuel in it (as cataclysmic correctly states above) This is probably why #4 SFP cooling has been a problem from the beginning.
In reading the on-site descriptions from the INPO reports, it sounds like the #4 explosion was almost a complete surprise.
In contrast they were madly trying to get the pressure down in the #3 Reactor before it exploded (another reason to assume the explosion was from the core). The pressure in the RPV had been as high as 1000 PSI.
After the shock of losing #3, it seems they were all in a panic and basically abandoned their jobs for awhile – probably letting #4 get away from them. The official record says they thought hydrogen from 3# somehow traveled to #4, but my guess is they simply didn’t have the manpower to pay attention to it, the new fuel in the SFP melted down and there was a hydrogen explosion.
If you’ll recall there were some photos of ominous black goo melting out of places around the SFP4 and even on the north end of the #4 building. Somehow they cleaned that stuff up pretty quickly.
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clarification to above: The #3 core had a full fresh load of MOX in August 2010 and none of the SFP’s had MOX.
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I have seen this a few times “reactor #3 was runnin on mox, but reactor #4 was used to store the spent MOX fuel rods.” ..hmm..is it possible spf 4 has mox fuel in it? but didn’t I also read there is no Mox in sfp as it was first load and not spent.. and of course the real smoking gun..as confirmed by cow pie in southern Cali..http://www.atimes.net/The-Edge/Japan/182889-PROOF-OF-FUKUSHIMA-WEAPONS-PROGRAMME-Y.Shimatsu.html
I can not help but think that we do not know anything for sure..but science is science and the science says that “..this figure indicates fission of large amounts of weapons-grade material at Fukushima”
so what is really in sfp 4? you think Tepco knows something that they aren’t telling? ok..lol!
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There weren’t any spent MOX rods. Japan only got approval to load MOX in August 2011 after a lengthy court battle.
Apparently they only loaded it into the #3 reactor.
I had speculated that they might have been preparing to put MOX into #4, but I had no evidence to that effect. The INPO report I refer to above says there was no MOX in the #4 SFP – take it for what it’s worth – I have no reason to disbelieve it.
However the damage is done if the MOX blew out of the #3 reactor. Plutonium – which for the past 70 years has been tracked milligram by milligram – is released by the ton…
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Thanks..yes, I suspect they were attempting to MOX up the place as US companies have much to get rid of..I mean sell to provide jobs..
Any comment on the cow pie?
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Honestly I think “weapons program” junk is a diversion introduced into the situation so they don’t have to admit the MOX exploded.
You have to understand there are significant political and financial reasons not to allow the people to turn on MOX fuel.
The political reasons bring the governments – specifically the British, French and US governments to the table.
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Argghhh!
Another clarification: Not to allow the public to turn against MOX fuel
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Yes James as i said the reporting was clear on the reactor number 4 being shut down and the core, all or partially removed and placed amongst the spent fuel in the pool. Which of course is a concern for hte future well being of that SFP. However it does present the bizaarre feeling that something is not right at 4. And it is no surprise that the explosion was unexpected because the thing was shut down with core removed. Another anonomly not properly explored or reported. You once again draw conclusion I cannot about how that explosion occurred based on the evidence provided.
We do know however that all the reporters including Arnie did little to discover what the true story is behind both the reactor explosions and certainly the details of SFP three are sketchy at best while all the focus has been trained on SFP 4 to the point that it was over reported when compared to the impacts of reactor threes core explosion and SFP emmissions.
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ok..tracking with you, and yes, the MOX(2million times more toxic)is a very large issue.. I suspect it was the MOX fall out that caused all of the genetic mutations in my flowers..in Spokane WA. I suspect the your thinking that the horse left the building is correct.. Ex-Tepco worker: Plutonium has all been blown out of Fukushima Unit 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S26StSrBE0
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Kevin, I don`t think that SFP 4 is used as a distraction. It just holds so much fuel (and again MOX) that it is of special interest. It has 204 hot fuel assemblies and 1331 spent assemblies. That’s as much fuel in this single location than melted down in the first 8 months at fukushima!
This was posted some days ago. Don`t know if it is right:
Number of fuel assemblies
In the reactor
400 unit 1
548 unit 2
548 unit 3
0 unit 4
548 unit 5
764 unit 6
Spent fuel assemblies in the spent fuel pool
292 unit 1
587 unit 2
514 unit 3
1,331 unit 4
946 unit 5
876 unit 6
New fuel assemblies in the spent fuel pool
100 unit 1
28 unit 2
52 unit 3 (this indicates unit 3 was fully loaded with MOX)
204 unit 4 (MOX)
48 unit 5
64 unit 6
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Partial truths and radiation give me a headache..just sayin..
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Matt Simmons may have died because of his whistle-blowing.
I believe that he did.
I followed the gulf cover-up as carefully as I’m following Fukushima and Matt Simmons was the most high-profile whistleblower for that disaster.
He may have had some character flaws, but he did not back down from his assertions that the well was not capped and that the ocean floor was covered with oil and fractured.
Scientists subsequently confirmed many of his assertions, without using the same language employed by Simmons.
The first reports on his death from heart attack in the hot tub were contradictory.
google matt simmons assassination
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majia – I didn’t follow the gulf oil thing. In a way, I have an advantage on this one because I was an “outsider” on that one.
I recall that guy – seemed like he was screaming loudly then all the sudden ended up dead in his hot tub or something. Seemed weird at the time.
It also seemed really strange that the news cut off – one day all the sudden – no more.
I guess Japan hired the same PR advisory team.
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James2
Ask XdrFox, same playbook.
I could not believe what was happening then.
here is an academic account–a safe account that relies mostly on mainstream media accounts:
http://majiasblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/bp-gulf-oil-spill-was-rehearsal-for.html
I believe there was a conspiracy to hide the scope of the spill, the health effects, and I believe it is not fully contained to this day.
I hesitate to publish in book or journal article my full thoughts, though I do post these in my blog
Like Arnie I try to stay “safe” in my critiques in order that my arguments not be dismissed by larger audiences…
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I don’t comment all that often, but now I feel I should. I am more than stunned by some of the nasty comments I am reading some enenewsers are making about Fairewinds. Mr Gundersen has been in the industry for more than 30 years. Busby and Gundersen on nuclear issues, and Caldicott on the medical consequences, have been some of the only people with any reputable knowledge, credibility and a wider audience, who have been willing and able to give us all any insight at all, into what’s going on at Fukushima, and I can’t believe some are choosing to pay him back for that, by trashing him.
In one his earliest videos, I recall him saying something akin to, that he was only able to make statements and analyses, that address the things we KNOW, from the known facts and the data available. He is not a sensationalist. He does not exaggerate or extrapolate or make wild and unsubstantiated guesses on things he can’t validate… and so it should be. That’s how scientists are supposed to behave. Anything else would be pure speculation. I expect that Mr Gundersen is more than fully aware of the flawed, misleading and distorted data TEPCO is giving out, but what should he do? Make it up as he goes along? He can’t and shouldn’t do that, nor does he. He can only go with INDISPUTABLE facts. He does though, speak of processes and considerations, that gives the listener the ability to discern for themselves and with that knowledge he gives us, we are able to ourselves make the guesses and extrapolations and predictions we think (or fear) could apply. He explains the very complicated subject of nuclear issues in terms and words everyone can understand. I won’t scroll back up to see who even went so far as to accuse Mr Gundersen of being negligent and complicit in genocide, but I find that kind of wild accusation to be incredibly rude and downright offensive.
I, for one, am greatly appreciative of all the videos Arnie has put out and they have widened my knowledge and…
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…understanding of nuclear issues immensely. If Mr Gundersen ever did read this thread, I would like to thank him profusely for all he has done to help educate the masses on nuclear issues, myself included.
Thanks admin, for making this post and for reminding me to be grateful, thankful and generous toward those who deserve our gratitude…. and now I am going to go to the Fairewinds site to donate TWICE what I had originally planned on.
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LOL blondie
think i have to donate there too after reading that response!:)
Busby and Gundersen on nuclear issues, and Caldicott on the medical consequences,
you hit the nail on the head there! tactically the three musketeers have been a huge thorn in the nuke lobbies side! in their own different ways! KUDOS!
as for the sentiments about arnold gunderson, i think he has read it all before here! yet he still recommended enenews as a news source!
unfortunately in my experience scientists and whistleblowers fall into two catagories those that tell everything they know but never get stuffed published as legal evidence and those that slowly collate the evidence and then go through the slow process of peer group clarification.. busby and gunderson are the later!
helen tends to qoute already peer reviewed works on known medical issues and the boys have to deal with changing data and situations and use the peer review process.. slow! but sure! and its the best we have.. others like criirad who follow the icrp model also are raising concerns, ACRO too!
i agree that taco and gunderson have different perspectives but i find it hard to believe even given the concerns voiced here! we complement all of these musketeers!
i mean which one of them could say that geraldine thomas is a twat? none! because there credibility would be shot! however a norwegian lemming can say
gerry your a twat!
just like that
so there is even an important role for an old duffer like me!!
luv you all … u know that!!
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Given that your comments are general and not directed at anyone specific it is hard to properly respond. That said, I have gone out my way to ensure that I use proper language in describing in detail my thoughts on Fairewinds and Arnie’s work. To that end I agree , and have stated as much, that the information and Arnie’s mainstream profile provided the opportunity for those interested to explore more for themselves and establish their own conclusions and I have lauded Arnie for precisely that.
However I think your assertion that someone here, least of which me, may have suggested Arnie is complicit in genocide is over the top and uncalled for. I believe everyone here is both familiar with and grateful to the extent they are comfortable with of Arnie and Fairewinds. Arnie knows full well that entering the frey of such dramatic issues opens you up to scrutiny and anyone parlaying such work into a fundraising opportunity is opening themselves up further to serious scrutiny.
I am pleased you support Arnie and are willing to donate, however suggesting others who may be less supportive are framing Arnie as complicit in the inevitable death of countless people is both irresponsible and unhelpful.
Those scrutinizing Arnies work and providing readers with alternative views do so in order to shed as much possible light as we can on what are highly deceptive and often stealth communications strategies that everyday folks may fall victim to and I believe doing so is just as justified and valuable as any of the contributions Fairewinds has made in the effort to get to the truth of the matter.
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FUKUSHIMA WILL BE THE BIGGEST CATASTROPHIC EVENT OF MANKIND, NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. ONLY A FEW KNOW THIS, WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. WE ARE ON OUR OWN. OUR LIVES AND GENERATIONS TO COME WILL BE CHANGED FOREVER. We not only have a right to question, we should question everything! We are on the Road to Destruction, the human race…no kidding.
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“however suggesting others who may be less supportive are framing Arnie as complicit in the inevitable death of countless people is both irresponsible and unhelpful.”
and
“However I think your assertion that someone here, least of which me, may have suggested Arnie is complicit in genocide is over the top and uncalled for”
i cant see where i said that?
maybe this
” agree that taco and gunderson have different perspectives but i find it hard to believe even given the concerns voiced here!..”
gunderson has been challenged inb a number of ways here at enenews.. dont want to track all the comments…tired!
none were aimed at any one specific, though i mentioned taco had a different perspective…
nothing about the details of that perception…
just noting a difference..
hope that clears that up ??
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sorry kev! told i was tired! thought you were talking to me.. time for bed
gnight
peace
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no worries.
It was probably my fault when I began my comments to Blondie, your post was not up and I thought mine was going to be immediately under Blondies. I should have directed it to her in the body of the post so you wuold not have been confused about who I was responding to.
Nite.
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@Kevin
“However I think your assertion that someone here, least of which me, may have suggested Arnie is complicit in genocide is over the top and uncalled for. ”
“I am pleased you support Arnie and are willing to donate, however suggesting others who may be less supportive are framing Arnie as complicit in the inevitable death of countless people is both irresponsible and unhelpful. ”
This is a direct quote of what was said, further up the thread and to which I was referring;
“For Arnie to utilize Tepco’s fake data (and they have been proved in court to fake radiation data in the past), is for him to collaborate with Tepco in their negligence and genocide.”
So no, I was not irresponsible, nor over the top, and my objection to that accusatory and IMO absurd claim was indeed called for.
Look, we are all starved for information and very fearful of what the future may bring regarding Fuku, but turning on each other and the few people who are willing to speak about Fukushima is what is not helpful at all. We all should remember who the real enemy is and in my opinion, it is not Mr Gundersen. We do ourselves a great disservice by demonizing or discarding the wisdom of those we need the most… and we do need Mr Gundersen’s insights and assessments. I didn’t know much about nuclear issues before Fuku and have gone through a forced crash course in the subject over the last year and I learn something from every single video Mr Gundersen puts out and that helps me get “ammo” against the pro-nukers and denialists I assume we all deal with on a daily basis in our daily lives. Perhaps just a little less flaming of the “teacher”, would be in all our best interests.
Just sayin’.
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Blondie,
“For Arnie to utilize Tepco’s fake data (and they have been proved in court to fake radiation data in the past), is for him to collaborate with Tepco in their negligence and genocide.”
That was me…
Like I said, nobody in Japan believes Tepco any more. Arnie does.
Yes, he is collaborating. So is the media, and the White House, and Congress, and ESPECIALLY the medical establishment.
Radiologists and oncologists are in the business of knowing the health effects of radionuclides. Not a peep from them. Silence is consent.
As far as collaborators go, Arnie is less bad than most. But the stakes are high. The survival of the planet is at stake.
Please don’t blame others for what I said. I hate categorizing people.
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I’m didn’t blame others. In fact, I went out of my way to not mention any names at all. Besides, you were not the only one who turned on Mr Gundersen. Those who did, (in previous threads also) know who they are and therefore I didn’t feel it necessary to point fingers at anyone specific.
The point is, WE are free to speculate and guess all we want (and we do), but he HAS to remain credible and stick to the knowns because the minute he starts making claims as facts, that could later be proven wrong, is the minute he will lose all credibility and be turned on by the pro-nukers. Then we would lose a valuable voice on the issues and we simply can’t afford that. He has to walk a fine line and I would only wish more people would be understanding of that. That’s all.
When and if he makes “guesstimates”, he is also very careful to state that with the lack of data we all have, his opinion is ONLY that. Opinions. None of us can know for sure what lies in store, but with his knowledge, he does give us an informed and knowledgeable opinion and I for one value that immensely.
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Blondie,
Gundersen is not sticking to facts, he is sticking to claims made from proven liars. Garbage in, garbage out. He needs to integrate other information into his analysis.
Something happened to the plant in October, the situation has radically changed since then and it is much worse now. But you wouldn’t know this listening to Arnie.
If he wants to walk fine lines, he can do what he wants, but another word for that is politics. I am interested in truth. And it is very hard to obtain truth in this situation, when you are being lied to all the time.
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If something happened at the plant in October, he (and we) have to be able to PROVE that, beyond the shadow of a doubt, with hard core facts and indisputable data. Can we do that? It has to be able to hold up to a peer reviewed process and be indisputable. THAT is the litmus test all scientists must adher to, whether they like it or not and therein lies both our and Mr Gundersen’s dilemma.
We are, as you state, being lied to, I completely agree on that, by TEPCO, by our govs, by NRC and by the MSM and I think Arnie as a nuke expert, who is swimming pretty much alone in a sea of sharks as it were, is doing the very best he can with the info he has access to, to counter that, yet still remain credible.
I just don’t think it’s fair nor appropriate, that WE join the schools of sharks trying to cut him to pieces. I just don’t think it’s fair or warranted. He is doing the best he can with what he has to work with and so are we.
We would do well to choose our battles wisely and attacking Mr Gundersen is not one of them.
That’s just my two cents and I am sticking with that.
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Nobody in Japan believes Tepco and the Japanese government anymore. People that are interested in this issue get information from other sources.
Arnie has not been relevant for some time now. In the past, he was good. Let’s give him a gold watch.
Actually I don’t even watch his videos anymore. If Arnie comes clean with a novel, incisive & breathtaking analysis of the situation, somebody please let me know. Nobody would be happier than I would.
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I’m glad you said this, Blondie. I also think Gundersen is getting some unfair abuse. I’m grateful he has had the courage to speak about Fuku and help to publicize what has been going on there, and I understand that he probably has to tread carefully. He has my respect, even when I wish he’d say more about certain things.
I also think it’ a bit unfair to make it sound like he’s trying to make a profit off of the situation. I’m sure it costs something to keep a website running and to produce the videos that he does. The videos frequently have what appear to be computer generated diagrams/illustrations, and surely the software to produce all of those cost money too.
Someone said above that Caldicott does not similarly ask for donations. This is true, but incomplete. She does not ask for donations, but if I remember correctly, she was a founder of Physicians for Social Responsibility, and that organization–like most nonprofit/advocacy organizations–does indeed ask for donations (I’ve gotten numerous emails about it over the past several weeks). The Union of Concerned Scientists seeks donations too.
Both Fairewinds and ENEnews have been invaluable sources of information, and I would like to donate something to both of them, but I am currently having some financial uncertainty, so any such contributions must be put on hold for a while. I regret this, because I really do appreciate the service both are providing.
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Very well said, Blondie. I agree completely, thank you for speaking up. I honestly don’t know what all these people denegrating the Fairewinds work can possibly be thinking. All these ridiculous assertions about what Mr. Gunderson has or has not said, and almost all of the assertions are completely false. I’m donating more now, too!
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me too. Because if nothing else. The videos get me thinking.
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hear, hear. fairewinds = integrity. cautious, yes, and they should be.
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Blondie, If Arnie had to stick to only known facts, he would have never made any videos in the first place.
His videos are rife with speculation – especially the early ones. This is rationalization at best.
I like Arnie’s style and i believe he honestly set out to do something important. Whether he sold out or got “told” what to say, or simply is trying to walk a political gauntlet is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he is not doing what he has the capability of doing, which is blowing this thing wide open.
It seemed to me that he was headed that direction early and got sidetracked for some reason. That’s my opinion, but I have enough data to know that Arnie should know better.
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James2, I agree with your comments that Arnie should know better. Thank you for watching the Fukushima cameras videos and pointing iregularities and coverups, especially the photoshoped cranes and lights covering radioactivity going up. My lungs, stomach and entire body are screaming that you and other enenews ers are rightabout the criticalities at Fukushima. My 3 year old son is complaining of grumbling stomach a lot these days and all his food is per 311.
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James2 said ” What is relevant is that he is not doing what he has the capability of doing, which is blowing this thing wide open”
Absolutely.
This is precisely the reason he has been accused of performing the now popularized “limited hangout.”
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James, with all your brilliant insight and expertise in this matter. Please tell everyone what the sfp fuel is doing. Is it granola? Is it China Syndrom? Has it aerosoled and fizzled into the air? Is it on fire? Or is it cold shutdown? We know the plant lost on/off site power for days right? The water evaporated and/or leaked from the sfp’s right? Did a small critical mass form in the sfp and blew everything out? What about the reactor fuel?
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There are 7 spent fuel pools at Fukushima Diaichi – among them they contain more than 3/4 of the fuel at tha site.
6 of them are high in the reactor buildings next to the reactor. one is a shared spent fuel pool near the reactor 4 building and it contains about 40% of the cooler assemblies.
For a status, you have to take them one by one. Here’s my best guess:.
SFP1 I think is intact inside the #1 building and being kept cool.
SFP2 is possibly intact inside the building. but possibly has breached and caused a hole in the South side of the building
SFP3 I believe has fallen and is on fire or the nuke fuel is burning at the south end of the 3 reactor rubble. They keep parking cranes in front of it, and photoshopping stuff in front of it on the webcam – so it is very hard to see, but clearly the area around the pool has deteriorated significantly during the month of December, and I told everyone I saw flames there all last week. I can think of no other reason the South wall of the building – which contains the south side of the SFP, would deteriorate unless the pool fell.
SFP4 I think is still standing. This pool contains “hot rods” that they were going to load into the reactor after the maintenance was finished. So not only did it contain a large amount of spent fuel, it contained a large amount of new fuel. I believe at leas some of it melted, and may have breeched some holes in the pool, but they have been able to keep water in there to the best of my knowledge. They have done some shoreing up of the pool by installing support beams underneath it. I believe melted cladding from this pool may have caused hydrogen to accumulate and explode on March 15th. Shortly afterward some streams of molten “corium like” material appeared to be running down some walls near the pool. This one is most precarious, because the entire building is in pretty bad shape.
SFP 5 and 6 – no information on them. I suspect they are OK.
SSFP -…
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Thanks James for your best guesses. However, I must admit they are not without probability. There are disputed fact concerning the causes of the massive damage to the containment structures. Many believe hydrogen oxygen reactions won’t sustain the types of explosions we witnessed. Some skeptics believe that all the fuel, except for what blew out in the explosions, from the rpv’s and sfp’s has fallen and solidified somewhere under the reactor containment structures. (or what is left of them). As we witnessed with the floating crane and photoshop tampering, those in control of this disaster can guide us to believe what they want us to believe. There may even be some folks that comment here who have been captured by the industry propaganda machine. Happy New Year everybody!
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Shared spent fuel pool – we’ve seen a bunch of crazy stuff that appears to emanate from near the SSFP, but that one should be the easiest one of all to keep cool. It’s large, and has a lot of rods, but the rods are further along in the cooling process and the building itself is accessible.
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So, where are the three meltdowns?
According to you none of the containment vessels have been breached, except for No. 2?
Please don’t skirt the issue by distinguishing between containment vessel or some other vessel.
The general understanding is that there are at least 3 reactors that are in full melt-down–i.e. Elvis has left the building, but you disagree?
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Please get a basic understanding of the situation. Then I’ll answer questions.,
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*applauds Blondie
Well said!
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Who has ever experienced anything like Fukushima? It’s a Global, planet altering crisis that no one has ever seen the likes of. Therefore how could there NOT be discussions about who is doing what, who isn’t doing enough ect ect. What we’re witnessing has never happened before! Arnie IS a voice in the wilderness and for that we’re all grateful. But also realize many questions WILL continue to come up every single day as we watch this unfold. Arnie’s Presentations deserve the same scrutiny we give each other here. NO LESS.
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There was a comment posted a few days ago…it said something to the effect….Arnie is the “approved” voice of the opposition.
A position..we are all supposed to fall in line with…
Yet… we don’t..because we know it is the watered down version in the truth.
Effective to some extent.. it can also be crippling.
Care must be taken..to avoid a gatekeeper situation..
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Interesting that you would use the term “gatekeeper” when describing Arnie’s role. Having had a little experience with him per the TMI-2 meltdown, I got that feeling decades ago. Bit of a serious disagreement about how the radioactive isotopes got out of the containment structure in significant enough amounts to cause thousands of downwind cancers and other health effects.
Having been with a team of investigators at TMI-2 during the month following that meltdown – in health physics roles, doing the actual monitoring of releases and doses – our findings were quite different from all ‘official’ pronouncements. It was years before it became entirely obvious that a lot of contamination got out, he was asked by Caldicott, et al. to explain how that happened. He insisted the radiation got out when the 32+ psig hydrogen explosion of containment atmosphere somehow caused a major breach. Reasonable if breach of containment had in fact occurred, but it didn’t. And there was ample physical evidence to prove that.
We maintained from the beginning that the primary reactor coolant loop was never isolated to containment at any point before or after the accident. IOW, it was going out the whole time, and continued to go out for months. Via ‘normal’ routes of escape for fission products (gases and particulates) produced by a core meltdown. Engineered right into the design…
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…Anyway, an engineer of his caliber and experience would of course know that the primary system is NOT fully contained, and isn’t designed to be fully contained. I always wondered why he’d be willing to promote that gross misconception about the technology. Perhaps because his livelihood was still somewhat tied to the existence of the technology, and engineers are often sadly loathe to admit their grandest achievements are inexcusably FUBAR.
I think he means well. He has been immensely useful in educating entire generations of people who never paid much attention before. And for that he deserves thanks. This disaster is so much worse than even nukes can imagine that it’s really, really hard for them to accept – even those who know how evil the whole scam is. Nobody really wants it to be that bad…
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Unfortunately, it is that bad. I’ve been counting on enenews almost daily since March for updates and related news, have avoided signing up but have followed the comments some too. Y’all are doing a fine job of staying on top of things and distrusting the right people. IMO, Arnie’s not one of them. But his conservatism on some of the obvious details too awful for him to accept is something to keep in mind. That’s all. Take what is useful to you, shrug and ignore the rest. Nobody’s wishful thinking can stop these corium flows from flowing, or recall a single becquerel of nasty isotopes from the air, food and water.
Bottom line, there’s just not much that can be done once these babies blow. So the industry will practice firm denialism forever no matter how many of their babies blow, or where. Your clue is the word “unthinkable.” Whenever a genius or sub-genius tells you some event is “unthinkable,” it means they are literally incapable of thinking about it. At which point their thinking about such things becomes irrelevant.
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@JoyB – welcome! Interesting comment and book!
Maybe with your expertise you can please weigh in on what you think happened in Reactor 3 with the Mox fuel.
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Fascinating comments Joy, from a front line person, how very welcome that is. Your experience with Arnie and your observations are very valuable to me. So thanks very much for that.
A couple of comments. One is that to my knowledge Arnie has, and pretty well I would say, pointed out design flaws and industry’s propensity to cut corners and save money versus undertaking what is required to make these things “safer” and in particular with the GE BW designs used at Fukushima. He even went on to point out that the same challenges were present in the US and the same cheap fix designed to simply vent out radiation has been applied.
That said I am interested in clarifying what you have said on one other point. You state that your first hand experience with Arnie gave you the impression that he downplayed and skirted issues that had ample evidence to prove the contrary to his position. That one really sticks with me. I have not gone so far to call Arnie a gate keeper but it seems you are implying that was your experience however you go on to say later in your comments that Arnie is not among those who are not to be trusted which left me a little confused. Is it that despite your experience with Arnie where he was responsible for spreading misinformation that could be proved, you still trust him and your opinion is that he is not in fact a gate keeper despite this experience to the contrary?
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Oh, I’d trust Arnie implicitly on his public evaluations of what’s wrong in general, Kevin. And I think he’s been doing a slam-bang job of educating people since the beginning of this catastrophe. It is not an easy task to make simple pronouncements about conditions for a technology that has been shrouded in secrecy since its very beginnings. Like having to start from scratch on a daily basis. I think he is doing very well. I just wouldn’t take his analysis of some things as final word, because in my experience it’s not. TMI-2′s containment held, though the big equipment hatch was so warped by the explosion they had to cut through it with blow torches when the time came to enter. Still, it held, and I’ve seen hatches blow for no apparent reason in pressurized containments – once in the darned airlock! – so that was darned impressive the containment held to well more than twice design basis.
Deal is, the system was never contained, so it didn’t NEED a separate escape route. Really. Tens of millions of curies straight to atmosphere via the emergency main steam dump valves and out the stack sans flltration from the aux building, the vent gas headers on the letdown lines were full open through June of 1979 – 3 full months. Arnie should have known this, would have if he’d read the Kemeny TATF reports. I was always amazed he’d claim a breach that never happened versus breaches engineered-in. Simply my experience. And an email exchange when the first drone video at Daiichi was released (second week, I think), clearly showing a glowing fuel assembly atop the rubble of unit-2′s guts. I pointed it out, got immediately dropped from the list. Go figure.
I do believe he’s doing the best he can, under a great deal of pressure from places we probably can’t imagine. FWIW.
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Thanks so much for taking the time to respond Joy.
I agree Arnie is in a pickle. No doubt pressure on high profile communicators comes from corners none of us would wish to be involved with. As a result it is difficult to communicate what many of wish he would. I have noted however that Arnie seems to have a knack for releasing just enough information to not offend the overlords while at the same providing enough of an indication, for those who pick up on it, to pursuit a path one might not have without the subtle nudge in the direction.
That said I credit for you for giving Arnie the benefit of the doubt, despite your experience with him. It shows you have an ability that eludes many of us to overcome personal experience and remain objective.
Thanks again and I do look forward to more of your posts. Your contribution is obviously valuable and much appreciated.
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Joy your take that an Engineer with Arnie’s Experience couldn’t make the mistakes he appeared to be making at TMI, is almost identical to the though that I proposed about him on Fukushima just a few posts above.
I agree with you about Arnie most likely having good intentions. Most likely he just has one foot firmly stuck in each camp and cannot move forward that way.
He wants to associate with the Nuke industry network, but he wants to push them a bit – but not all the way – on safety.
Personally, your notes – and I also extend my thanks – tell me all I need to know; principally that our judgements about the industry and its deception is not in our imaginations.
Seeing someone like you here will likely scare the daylights out of the mind control team. Expect fireworks soon…
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Heh. I’m used to fireworks after all these years, James. Hell, I married a fire-eater. Am now an incurable homesteader. Hence my expertise in both torches AND pitchforks!
P.S. Sorry, Admin for the OT posts.
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Hi, Mark. Thanks for the welcome.
I am not all that experienced with MOX fuel, only know it burns hotter than ‘standard’ UOX. Thus NRC permits for “upgrades” to rustbucket power plants that should have been decommissioned three decades ago when TMI-2 proved the technology unacceptable. All reactor cores breed plutonium, up to a third of the power is from plutonium fission after it’s been operating for awhile. It hasn’t generally been known to be materially more unstable than regular old UOX, which is unstable enough to fission in the presence of a moderator, and is absurdly deadly for at least 100,000 years after the steam its boiled water produces gave you (figurative) toasted bagels for breakfast.
Just a way to use some of the gross excess of plutonium we’ve got left over from the good ol’ Cold War’s “Arms Race.” Because we’ve no place to safely store it, anywhere in the world, to this day. The entire technology exists to serve humanity’s bizarre case of suicidal tendencies, the ‘dream’ of making ourselves (and most other mammals) ultimately extinct, just because we can. You can’t build a beast that bad-assed without expecting it to someday do just what it was designed to do. Japan’s nukes are mostly off-line right now, first time in decades. Are they all freezing in the dark? …THAT tells you what needs to be known. It was a scam all along…
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AAARGH! Mack, not Mark. Sorry, Mack.
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@JoyB – Thank you for another excellent, informative comment. I hope you’ll post often.
Love the last sentence in your comment:
“It was a scam all along…
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Yes, indeed it has been a scam all along. I think Adam Curtis in his wonderful documentary did a fascinating job of underscoring this precise point when interviewing insiders who claimed that engineers knew and continue to know that these things are basically accidents waiting to happen and despite all the redundancy built into the designs there are certain, almost inevitable, outcomes that simply cannot be engineered away therefore they made the conscious decision to simply ignore them. Joy nails it with her explanation of the “unthinkable” it seems the professional engineers in this industry have decided to simply not think about the certain dangers presented they are unable to properly resolve.
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The documentary is called A is for Atom in Adam Curtis’s Pandoras Box series
See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ON-EnaRtAw
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Have been holding back on the last installments of my analysis of the NRC documents (from Lucas Hixson’s FOIA take, plus some “eyes only” ones that got released to Rep. Ed Markey in late October) over at Daily Kos. Sort of waiting to see what happens to Jaczko (he’ll either give in or be out, I’m betting on out) since the other commissioners mutinied. It really is impossibly FUBAR, no saving graces anywhere. Everyone with a lick of knowledge of these beasties knows it’s FUBAR. Have known it since March 12, and it just kept on getting worse and worse. Only with a technology so complex, so steeped in secrecy, can you possibly get something this horrendous and end up with the industry still promoting 1500 brand new extinction machines anyway.
The people of this planet have to do what the industry and its captive governments won’t do. End it. Now, not later. I’ll post when I can, you guys/gals are very refreshing. Don’t know how to embed a link in comments, but here’s the background…
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/04/post-4.html
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Wow this is very powerful Joy.
The people of this planet have to do what the industry and its captive governments won’t do. End it. Now, not later.
Pretty much says it all.
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Joy
I would be very, very grateful if you would share your opinion with me about my 2 conversations with the EPA.
http://majiasblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-conversation-with-epa-rep.html
http://majiasblog.blogspot.com/2011/12/another-call-from-epa.html
The EPA rep I spoke with tried to convince me that the beta levels reported for Phoenix recently of up to 850 CPM are “normal” variations due to radon (he said the same for those across the country).
???
We do have a leaky plant here, Palo Verde, that has been licensed for MOX (the only commercial plant in the US to be so) but I cannot find out whether or not Mox is running.
I know we leak tritium terribly–I have data.
However, I am convinced the beta spikes are Fukushima based on the weather patterns.
Your insights would be most welcome.
I am an academic social scientist who is trying to raise awareness, but I’m on a steep learning curve…
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Will look at those links tomorrow, majia. Late here, having a little trouble with my eyelids… §;o)
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Thanks!
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Maijas blog rocks, you will be happy you took the time to review her work. Very hard working and committed not to mention brave academic we have in our midst with Maija.
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Nice blog, majia! I bookmarked it so I can keep up. Here’s what I got from your conversations with the EPA flunkies…
The rep is correct that their detectors are more sensitive than your usual hand-held Geiger. Also, their detectors break down gamma energy levels so specific isotopes can be calculated out. Just remember that some isotopes that are a clear and present internal hazard – say, Strontium – are not gamma-emitters. Thus Strontium levels would not be among the list of what EPA’s machines detect at their stations.
Also, if you live within 15 miles of a nuclear plant, you’re going to get some waft-throughs on a regular basis whenever it’s operating. These things pass gas on a constant basis, but so long as the releases are below set levels, they are not even reportable.
Finally, the reason EPA’s level indicating evacuation is so high is that they are tasked with protecting people against chronic lifetime doses, not with transient levels from power plants, bomb tests and meltdowns. If I had very young children I’d get the hell outta Dodge if I saw ~1.5+ mr/hr over several samples over a couple of days, because that would add up quickly. Even though there are many regions around the world that routinely read higher than that as ‘normal’ background. Because if it is highly likely the increase comes from human sources, it’s also highly likely to be in the form of contaminates that present +20 biological damage factors once it’s internal. Fallout does not present the same dangers as your average external gamma dose.
As to your location, you have a nuke in the vicinity that has been experiencing some digestive upset lately. You noticed, so of course EPA had to take the monitor off line. They took the Raleigh monitor off line early in the crisis because it pegged big time. Said, “Oops. Must be a technical flaw.” I just figured Sheron-Harris was taking the opportunity the Fukushima plume presented to empty its waste gas storage tanks…
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…because nukes are nothing if not opportunists. This opportunism is the reason I was so appalled when Jaczko “requested” that U.S. plants report “excess” radiation from Fukushima once EPA went back to quarterly monitoring. Our plants do, of course, monitor regularly and notice increases, but they’re certainly unlikely to report their own plant’s contributions to the stew. Nor are they likely to do the math to determine how much of the excess they’re measuring comes from their own plant.
Sort of a blanket agreement for NRC to look the other way. As they routinely do anyway. EPA didn’t want to be on the public health and safety hook, neither did the NRC – whose f’king JOB it is to be on that hook when it comes to radiological hazards.
No one is ever responsible for anything in this day and age.
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Thank you very much Joy
Can you tell me how I can meaningfully convert EPA radnet data to microsievert exposure?
per your comment: “If I had very young children I’d get the hell outta Dodge if I saw ~1.5+ mr/hr over several samples over a couple of days, because that would add up quickly.”
THANKS AGAIN!
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Joy! I’m so happy to see you here! (Rather than at DK. I use the same handle.) I was just thinking about you this morning as I did my morning radiation check. You hadn’t posted @DK in a while and I actually wondered if the Nuke Mafia had gotten you. No, seriously, the thought crossed my mind.
I’ve been missing your expertise and knowledge of the Nuke industry, your grounded narrative and understanding. Around here, we have a lot of nuke skeptics with layperson’s knowledge about the industry and we’ve been needing someone like you around!
PEOPLE! JOYB IS THE REAL DEAL! She will be an inestimable asset to our community! Let’s all give her a huge welcome!
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Aw, I’m blushing. Thanks, Wheever. I’ve been putting things off for the holidays, it’s all such a huge bummer. Figure Greg Jaczko isn’t long for the nuclear world (admin would have come down on the mutineers if they planned to by now), so unless he’s good and ready to sell his soul he’ll suddenly need to “spend more time with the family.” Right after the turn of the year, I figure.
At that point the NRC documents bottom line can be a fitting epitaph for a conscience that had no business playing with nukes in the first place, they chewed him up and spit him right out. He was the only real hope anybody had that anything might be done about the situation. It’ll be business as usual from here on out. S’okay, We The People were always the only ones who could effect real change. Just have to get off our duffs and make it happen.
Good to see you here!
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Rem and Sieverts are pretty easy to convert to and from, though if you’re me (slightly dyslexic), you have to check and re-check a few times to make sure the decimals are in the right place. Sv is sieverts, R is rem…
1 Sv = 100 R
1 mSv = 100 mr (millirem)
10 mSv = 1 R
1 µSv (micro) = 0.1 mr
10 µSv = 1 mr
Rem deals with lesser doses than sieverts, by a factor of 100. ‘Authorities’ argue about whether or not acute doses in the 1-25 R range are harmful, but even nuclear workers want to keep their annual exposures under 5 R if at all possible. Over 25 rem causes entirely detectable changes in blood. 50 rem is the threshold for acute radiation sickness symptoms. LD50 is right around 450 R. 750 R will get 100% of those exposed dead within 30 days. 1,000 R (which is 10 Sv) will kill you within 2 weeks. Higher than that by thousands simply cuts into the amount of days or hours you get to suffer before you die. Chronic doses (a little over extended periods of time) can affect health in a number of ways. Definitely not good for you.
The 1.5 mr/hr I mentioned that would move me if I had young children around adds up to 36 mr/day, more than 250 mr in a week’s time – a rem-plus per month over a long term. Children will see effects before adults (and well before old folks like me), and any time the contaminates causing the dose are likely to get inside your body the damage factor goes up by a factor of 20. For infants it can go up by a factor of 100. Iodine is readily uptaken by thyroid glands, but “allowable” accident doses to the public are 20 R to the thyroid. Other isotopes may or may not be uptaken, many will pass through for the most part. But you don’t want them anyway, best to put distance between you and them if it’s going to be a long term issue (more than a couple of days or weeks).
Hope that helps.
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Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station
CLICK>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station
I believe that we are getting a lot radiation from Fukushima, more than anyone will admit, and I think also from Palo Verde.
END NUCLEAR PLANTS
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So this “end it now” is the conclusion I came to just after the explosions as well.
Before this I had been a hard and fast proponent of Nuclear power, saying I thought it was the answer for all of us.
I felt totally duped when I saw what these things really were – the fact that they built giant containment structures, but had 3/4 of the nuke fuel right beside them in wide open pools!
What an idiot I had been to believe the claims of safety! This was as shocking as seeing the great and powerful Oz as a frail old man behind the curtain.
Joy just confirms, that this information simply must get out – now. It’s time to end this thing…
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This is one of the best threads yet, and that is saying alot as enenews is amazing. A consensus has been reached here by this group of humans with extremely diverse life experiences and levels of education…….THIS NUKE BULLSHIT HAS TO STOP NOW!
Bless you all.
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Wow!
Check out this comment from the link that JoyB posted:
“The USA arsenal of nuclear warheads need to be burned up, it will take nuclear plants to burn that fuel.”
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/04/post-4.html
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Yes of course, that’s the reason the governments were behind the Mox programs.
MOX allowed them to take a liability (unused warheads) and turn them into a product to sell back to the public. Wow trash to treasure and sell it right back to the people who paid you to take their trash…
The US signed a revised treaty in 2010 that allowed them to convert warheads to MOX. Prior to that they had to stockpile money earmarked to taking care of the plutonium. MOX freed up that money to be used for other things – huge lifestyles among others.
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This link is about TMI:
Investigation: Revelations about Three Mile Island disaster raise doubts over nuclear plant safety
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/04/post-4.html
I couldn’t find anything in this link about nuclear plants needed to burn up the US nuclear arsenal. Sounds like evil justification on the part of the nuclear industry which needs nuclear plants to shore up their stocks in uranium mining, etc.
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Hi anne. It was in the Comments section.
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The comment to this article by JoyB doesn’t support your claim at all:
re: Investigation: Revelations about Three Mile Island disaster
Submitted by Joy B. Thompson (not verified) on Sun, 05/10/2009 – 22:56.
“Rod Adams:
“‘What Margolis and I have been trying to do is to make it clear that there is overwhelming evidence that the doses to the general population were many orders of magnitude (powers of ten) below any that could cause the claimed effects.’
“Hello, Rod. I’m Joy. I would dispute your claim of “overwhelming evidence” based solely on the fact that all follow-up studies that weren’t those done by the residents themselves, were held to what the “official” release figures were. The charge is that those figures were cooked rather seriously. If that is so, other scenarios become much more credible.
“‘Pegging meters with that sensitivity is a bit like putting a 5 pound weight on a kitchen food scale. Five pounds is not much weight, but it sure would peg those little scale designed for calorie counters!’
“Okay, how about 1000 Rem/hour contact on a 10 milliliter RCS sample, the taking of which put the chemist out of work due to serious overexposure. Or, if you prefer, a 100 Rem/hr contact on a quarter-inch terminal gauge line in the aux building (demineralizer/makeup side) more than two weeks later? There is plenty of evidence of unprecedented conditions and releases. Where a few orders of ten (or decimal points, if you prefer) can easily get lost. And did.
“‘Heavy metal fission fascinates me and excites me with its demonstrated potential for safety, reliability and cleanliness – especially when compared to all other energy choices. In my opinion, fission is the new fire. We should not let imposed fear keep us from better understanding of its characteristics.’
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[cont.]
“Your interest shouldn’t trump anyone else’s right to live unmolested by deliberate malfeasance and gnarly death just because you can’t see or smell the deadly pollutant. That’s just not right, I presume you were raised to know that too. Go to school, volunteer at any of dozens of nifty atom-smashers across the country, find out what you want to know. Exposing the innocent civilian public to that kind of risk just to satisfy your curiosity and interest simply doesn’t fly.
“And if you ever do figure out how to make it “clean, safe, too cheap to meter” do let us know. That might make us invest in the technology on purpose.”
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/04/post-4.html
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No, you’re misunderstanding. I said check out the comment from the LINK that JoyB posted, (not the comment JoyB posted on the link.)
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I quoted her entire comment. There is no link. What is the link?
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Let’s try it like this:
JoyB posted this link:
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/04/post-4.html
When you click this link and read the comments, you will find a comment that says:
“The USA arsenal of nuclear warheads need to be burned up, it will take nuclear plants to burn that fuel.”
Good nite!
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It was a statement by deb:
re: Investigation: Revelations about Three Mile Island disaster
Submitted by deb (not verified) on Tue, 10/05/2010 – 07:44.
There is no link.
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After performing a Google search on this statement, there is no scientific research supporting this claim.
This is Deb’s complete comment:
re: Investigation: Revelations about Three Mile Island disaster
Submitted by deb (not verified) on Tue, 10/05/2010 – 07:44.
“All energy is “pick your poison”. At this time “we” cannot replace coal and oil with alternative energy. So which is worse for people and the environment; fossil fuels or nuclear? Fossil fuels are polluting everything, the air, the water, our soil, our flora and fauna.
There are vibrant cities in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hospitals, doctor’s offices and dentist offices are full of nuclear material. Yes, we are aware that too much radiation can kill, but fossil fuels are slowly killing everything.
“People who have worked in nuclear plants for their lifetimes aren’t dying faster than their peers.
The USA arsenal of nuclear warheads need to be burned up, it will take nuclear plants to burn that fuel.
The majority of nuclear plants around the world burn nuclear fuel until the waste is a fraction of the size of the USA (about 1/5 the size) spent fuel. Out nuclear plants have this capacity but current laws do not allow the condensing of the nuclear material (it has to do with ‘weapon’s grade stage’).
“Until and unless there are viable alternative energy methods then nuclear is better than fossil fuels.
Picture the future with nuclear: Electric cars, no air pollution, no water pollution, no acid rain, dangerous heavy metals such as mercury and beryllium are not being pumped into the environment, no coal sludge waste pond sites, et al.”
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However, the amount of radiation is not lessened, only the volume. And in the process transuranic elements are produced which are even more toxic.
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TRANSMUTATION OF RADIOACTIVE WASTES IS “NUCLEAR ALCHEMY GAMBLE”
Hugely Expensive Technology Would Increase Environmental, Health, Safety
And Nuclear Proliferation Risks, New Report Says
“’Asking the public for huge sums of money for new reactor research and development under the guise of radioactive waste management appears to be largely a scheme to perpetrate the nuclear power industry using public opposition to waste repositories as an excuse,’ said Dr. Arjun Makhijani, President of IEER. ‘Our research shows that the road will not only be costly and dangerous, but that it will also be a dead end. There is no magic bullet for solving the problem of long-lived nuclear waste.’
“According to The Nuclear Alchemy Gamble, even transmutation proponents agree that many long-lived components of radioactive waste, such as cesium-135 and carbon-14, cannot be transformed into less dangerous forms because of fundamental limitations that cannot be overcome by technology development. Uranium, which makes up 94% of the mass of the spent fuel, cannot be transmuted because it would result in the production of even more plutonium. In some cases, the report notes, transmutation would create new and even more toxic transuranic radioactive materials, making the residual wastes far more dangerous per pound….”
http://www.ieer.org/reports/transm/pressrel.html
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I grow tired of this mantra this Deb woman spews.Head guru of the modern day push for nuclear , Stewart Brand, is at the forefront spreading this diatribe.
The fact is there are alternatives. However the power we have allowed major energy companies to amass has eclipsed our ability to have the alternatives seriously developed.
Also much of this diatribe is a message box literaly full of holes. First off nuclear power is fossil fuel intensive throughout all the stages of development and the build out. It is costly. It is not the only way to dispose of nuclear war heads. It is not the answering to global warming, much of which has been propagated by pro nuclear advocates. And no Deb, I cannot imagine this wonderland you outline because its an outright fantasy developed by the military industrial complex hell bent on centralizing power generation in order to keep their stranglehold on power.
I am not sure where this commentary originates and for what purpose but have heard all the talking points and as I say Stewart Brand is the primary source of this campaign. A bright man who has decided to use the credibility he ammassed with his long established publication that became the bible of the greenish environmental community the world over and trade that in to become head cheerleader for this devious, manipulative industry. Both Brand and Lovelock performed this cashing in of their environmental capital along with Patrick Moore as former icons of the environmental movement. And like their recent convert George Monbiot, they have all lost their credibility and their collective fall from grace has worked to doom us all to the agenda of the power hungry control freaks who control the nuclear establishment and by extension much of the worldwide political and economic agenda.
Its late so I am sorry for the extended rant but this stuff just drives me around the bend. Cant these bright people look at Fukushima and see what doom they are casting upon the future?
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America’s farmlands to be carpet-bombed with Vietnam-era Agent Orange chemical if Dow petition approved
Dec 27, 2011
(NaturalNews) A key chemical of one of the most horrifying elements of the Vietnam War — Agent Orange — may soon be unleashed on America’s farmlands. Considered by world nations to be a “Weapon of Mass Destruction” (WMD), Agent Orange was dropped in the millions of gallons on civilian populations during the Vietnam War in order to destroy foliage and poison North Vietnamese soldiers. The former president of the Vietnamese Red Cross, Professor Nhan, described it as, “…a massive violation of human rights of the civilian population, and a weapon of mass destruction.”
A key chemical in that weapon — 2,4-D — is just months away from being dropped on agricultural land across the United States. Dow AgroSciences, which along with …
http://www.naturalnews.com/034500_Agent_Orange_Dow_2-4-D.html
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WTF, does anybody really know what time it is???
Cancer: Government agencies in the United States and abroad have developed programs to evaluate the potential for a chemical to cause cancer. Testing guidelines and classification systems vary. To learn more about the meaning of various cancer classification descriptors listed in this fact sheet, please visit the ap- propriate refe
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WTF, does anybody really know what time it is???
Cancer: Government agencies in the United States and abroad have developed programs to evaluate the potential for a chemical to cause cancer. Testing guidelines and classification systems vary. To learn more about the meaning of various cancer classification descriptors listed in this fact sheet,
http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/2,4-DTech.pdf
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Thank you Kevin, we all needed that, thank you.
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