47 comments to ‘China Syndrome’? Former Japan Official: Underground rumblings heard in Fukushima plant area night of March 14, 2011 — “Caused by melted fuel underground” (VIDEO)
This is the way it most probably went.
After there was no cooling the energy is so intense that it is only hours until melt down. And then the fuel melted itself out at the bottom and through containment in a day or two.
I have talked to experienced safety engineer on nuclear power, and he said there is nothing to stop this from happening.
This means the events went on just as he predicted.
I would like to see the english transcription of this interview. If anybody have please paste it in here.
This was A post I made here a few months after this terror started. This was through my own research on scientific papers,unconfirmed sources and comments, wikipedia etc. I was ridiculed at the time, not so much here but on other forums and posts! I have always stated I am no expert but have done much research as an learner and truth seeker.
This was My post after a lot of reading:
My theory is that the first explosions and fires were caused from the coriums hitting ground water in the following hours and days after the quake. Could this be possible? What do you guys think?
People called me dumb,an idiot,scaremongerer as I have no idea, impossible, where is your proof, you need to get help as my brain is obviously fried to make up such nonsence etc,etc.
This was my post and reasoning/proof for my theory:
Melt-through of a reactor vessel once fuel has no cooling and is exposed, may take from few tens of minutes to several hours. Once on the floor of the reactor the interaction between corium and concrete begins and very high temperatures can be achieved. The decomposition temperature of concrete is about 1100 °C. The corium can reach temps of 2800 °C (some scientists and researchers suggest the possibility of much higher temps of 4000°C and higher). At 1100 °C decomposition of concrete can reach 1m an hour. The possibility of total melt through of a reactor building in hours and days, not weeks or months seems very likely in my reasearch!
reaserch =research oops
I also posted this to try to convince:
Q:Why would I say this?
A: Masao Yoshida, general manager of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, believed the worst-case scenario — the “China syndrome” — might be near and he braced for death during the late-night hours of March 14, three days after the crisis started. http://enenews.com/japan-times-fukushima-boss-believed-china-syndrome-reactor-2-top-japan-official-admits-already-happened
Q: Did anything happen after the night of March 14 that might support my theory?
A:March 15: A second explosion of reactor 3, An explosion in the "pressure suppression room" causes some damage to unit 2’s containment system, A fire breaks (explosion IMO) out at unit 4.
March 16: A TEPCO press release states that workers had been withdrawn because of abnormal noises coming from the reactor pressure suppression chambers.
I could put up many links and articles to support my opinion but its all old news! I didn't just take a stab in the dark and guess, I have done my research. 2+2=?
So there you go……….
Anyone still doubt what I have been saying for over a year? Give me your reasons?
BTW, Tacomagroove was my inspiration for so many hours of research on this. I didnt want to believe his/her verdicts or conclusions. I set out to call his/her bluff and disprove the posts! I found (much to my horror) that what he/she was posting had possibly already happened. Thanks Tacoma, you made me think.
Your research sounds very likely to me. I still think that the people that know about this type of thing knew very well that once the cooling was lost, the entire complex was history and there was absolutely nothing they could do about it. All the explosions and fires, more explosions and more fires, aerisolized and vaporized Plutonium, Mox and a thousand other compounds, extremely contaminated water draining into the Pacific Ocean, anyone think the planet isn't fucked is dreaming.
People sometimes overlook the rules and principles involved when people bring together a pile of Uranium. Control rods are there for a specific reason. It is precise and highly scientific. When you have fuel melt out of the configuration, neutron capture becomes more successful. The atom splits. More energy is released. The fuel drips and pours down into the core catcher.(Designed to prevent criticality. The mass continues to heat up and gravity pulls it down. But this doesn't explain the explosions. Water is now reacting directly with the fuel. Another question is if core catchers really work? Anyhow, the whole mess will melt according to most logical conclusions.
"Another question is if core catchers really work?"
At a guess I would say yes under a semi controlled environment i.e. no earthquake,no tsunami,you have power and a cooling system? I think they knew what was happening and were unable to anything about it. Once these demons are off the chain and have broken down the gates they are impossible to round up and re-chain. I am very confident that this is common knowledge with the industry experts! They knew and have known for a long time. They didn't want the public ruining there profits so have always claimed there "clean, green, profit machines" were completely safe!
You seem to know your stuff hbjon? What is your background?
I knew some knowledgable people in Califonia back in the day. But, I know absolutely nothing about the real situation in Japan, except for what I read and see here. I have a lot of the same opinions that you have Toadmac. Misery enjoys company. Cheers.
Just wondering if you have seen my videos and maybe you can give an opinion? Please watch the full 9 mins if your interested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjaUgineUBM
Most say it is just Radon? Why so high? I cannot find data on Radon that corresponds to the half life of my samples?
I make a lot of guesses as I agonize over youtube videos and newly acquired information. It turns out that my conceptual beliefs are modified almost on a daily basis. I often share these opinions with you folks here and admin is gracious enough to air my thoughts despite their absurdity at times. Everyone has their own jigsaw puzzles to put together and if I can help complete a section of yours, it would make me proud. My jigsaw puzzle has a lot of difficult sections completed, and I like to sit back and ponder them at times.
Mr. Matsuda may be the first government official to admit that corium has exited the buildings at Fuku. We can't solve the problem if we can't discuss the problem. This is a big deal. Many on ENEnews began in March of 2011 to discuss the rate that a corium over 2,000 F would eat through concrete, and how much concrete and steel there was under Reactors1,2,&3 to eat through before the coriums went ex-reactor building. After Buildings1&3 exploded, nobody on ENEnews went for TEPCOs reassurances any longer. The temperature and pressure readings for Reactors and Containments1,2,&3 did not reflect the presence of melted coriums. Clearly, the Coriums were no longer in the "containments", and the tons and tons of water being injected into the containments was pouring out big holes in the bottom and flowing into the Pacific Ocean. We knew the worst had happened, and that the nation of Japan was in grave danger. "Underground rumblings were heard." And so now, everyone in the world will know that the worst has happened. Come on, Japan, you can ask for help now.
"everyone in the world will know that the worst has happened."
At a guess with my limited knowledge, this is the part where there is no real "data versus outcome" to compare it to? This is a first! Hundreds of tons of hissing,fizzing melting corium blobs leeching non stop poisons into the earth,water and atmosphere with no means to stop it!This is why there has been little done to correct the situation. No one knows with any certainty what will come next?
IMO it is a definite Japan killer. As far as an ELE is concerned…hmm….I really hope we and nature get a second chance with a lesson learnt.
Toadmac: We certainly agree that Fuku has destroyed Japan. The Earth is a tiny biosphere, an island of life amidst a vast universe of cold lifeless space. I suppose we as a species can lurch from oil spill to flood, to famine, to nuclear meltdown, and survive as a species. But at some point, the stress we are under weakens the biosphere, compromising the chain of life. Cesium, after all, is no substitute for potassium in a living organism. We may survive even Fuku. But we will live shorter, more difficult lives as a result. We and all living things. Mankind has made a hash out of this lovely blue marble of a planet.
Nothing to worry about, here. You must have forgotten that the reactors were all in "cold shutdown."
After the exposure of that particular flagrant, cynical, and criminal lie by Tepco, if there is anyone alive who still trusts the nuclear industry, I'd like to know why.
It is so obvious to any adult with a pulse that the nuclear power industry lies to the public with impunity, with their only concern being profits and the ability to make nuclear weapons (another way they promote genocide), and that they not only do not care about human life, but they actively seek to destroy it (as evidenced by their lies and deliberate withholding of information which is vital to the viability of life on earth)!
We, the people of the earth, are seen as necessary evils, because we are needed to purchase the generated power. But if they could figure out a way to sustain their madness without us, they would kill us off in a heartbeat!
With 1 in 2 people world wide being diagnosed with cancer imagine the money to be made.
And to ensure that those that are left shoulder the cost of both the cheaper green energy & the loss of citizens to deaths from Radiation ect. find on the left of this page Featured publication ***Energy-Wise Canada: Building a Culture of Energy Conservation December 20, 2011…which concludes that in order to make us reduce electricity use they must Charge us MORE.
Be sure to take a look at the members list of international companies. They have indeed considered the loss of a large amount of the population.
No nuclear engineer required, common sense tells me the containment is lost, question to be answered did china syndrome occur and if so is it still molten or has it cooled enough to stop descent into crust,
They must be taking infrared pictures and tracking movement, would they not drill holes around plant to get temp readings of surrounding rock and calculate temp at centre.
Do you not think Tepco should be stockpiling material around sfp4 in case of collapse, why is their not a 1000 water cannons not surrounding facility, I would rather have radiation in water than air, what is the worse of two evils?
Nature has a funny way of preserving its self, once a species has the ability to destroy its self it does, if not that species would eventually destroy nature.
Mankind is a perfect example of cancer on this plant
The only good that could possibly come from the Fukushima disaster would be if it resulted in a complete shutdown of all npp. It has that potential. However, it also has the potential of destroying all life on earth, which would render moot any possibility of "good."
"potential of destroying all life on earth, which would render moot any possibility of "good."
You could look at it this way…..
There are a few creatures on this planet that have a high tolerance or even thrive in a high radioactive environment. If all things go bad for the majority of living things, there will no doubt, be some winners.
You know how we use radio therapy on cancer patients, just think of it on a much larger scale and us being the cancerous disease. See the good now? Other forms of life get a go
Yes, I do see what you mean. I guess, however, that I have a very human-centric philosophy. I believe that if some life forms do survive, but the human species is wiped out, it doesn't matter.
If there are no people to ponder the wonders and mysteries of the universe, what does it matter? It is human consciousness that gives context to everything in the universe.
Beauty is only beautiful if there is a self-aware being to observe and contemplate it. Philosophy and science only exist if there are two or more sentient beings who can discuss and debate it. Without human awareness, everything is just chemical and physical processes with no context, no classification, and no significance.
What I have hypothesized is a scenerio where when fuel comes into contact with heavy H2O and decomposes. The 2H becomes pressurized inside a heavy fortress without vents. The heat of fission, as the nuclei are foced together, causes the combination of 2H. But, there may in fact be a great quantity of 3H in the mixture of gases. When nucleons combine mass is lost and energy is created. However, did anyone rule out the possibility of a CM forming in the very early stages of the MD. I'm just working on my puzzle out loud.
Interesting. It would be nice if we had even more transparent exposure of the workings of the minds of the ENENEWS family, so that we can all bounce our own ideas and theories off of the disparate postulations and cumulative knowledge of the group. At some point the group, I think, would achieve critical mass in enllightenment.
This is very hard to do, however, in an environment where everyone is basically anonymous. When people know that no one can hold them accountable for what they say, there are some who might tend toward being mean-spirited, or being deliberately uncooperative with the group.
There also exposes the group to the possibility of hearing a lot of "crazy" hypotheses and "facts" based on false premises. That having been said, I belive that if someone is brave enough to postulate in public, they have the right to be heard.
It helps a great deal for someone to say, like you did, "I'm just working on my puzzle out loud." It disarms any opposition, and extends an invitation to collaborate.
One of the things I do in my line of work is to encourage collaboration within, and among, teams. One of the ground rules that always must be set, is that "there are no dumb ideas." All documents produced in a team will be given a status which identifies the work as either "working", "draft", "recommended", or "published".
The "working" status means, "This is my best guess based on the information that I have at this point in time. There is no guarantee of completeness or accuracy. Please feel free to contribute to this body of knowledge, and together we will derive a document which is reliable, complete, and accurate."
When 2 or more people agree on the information in the document, it is then moved to "draft" status and bubbled up to a larger group. When the larger group sanctifies the information in the document, it is given the staus of "recommended", and so forth until all affected parties have agreed and signed off on it. At that point it gets the status of "published."
My point is that when someone declares "this is only my best guess," they free themselve to reveal and release far more for public consumption than they might otherwise.
Release of the March 16 audio files of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s Operation Center Fukushima Transcript Audio Clips March 16 2011 conversations about the plant status clearly indicate that spent fuel pool #4 was damaged and burning.
In the transcripts speakers are heard stating that in additions to units 1 and 2 “boiling down,” the spent fuel pools in 3 and 4 are having "zirc water reactions." A speaker asserts that there are “no walls” on unit 4 spent fuel pool: “The explosion leveled the walls, leveled the structure for the unit 4 spent fuel pool all the way down to the to the approximate level of the bottom of the fuel, so there is no water in there whatsoever.”
Later in the interview, a speaker reiterates this report on the status of spent fuel pool #4: “our understanding of the unit 4 spent fuel pool is it has been destroyed on the side such that it will get no water above the bottom of the active fuel for in effect the sides of the reactor building are gone…the sides are gone.…”
The status of the plant is summarized by another speaker: he states the status of the plant has progressed" to at least "2 reactors [in meltdown], multiple spent fuel pools and maybe 4 reactors and 4 spent fuel pools…."
The prognosis is considered grim: “We’ve just not seen any mitigation of any of the events and we would take all the spent fuel pools and all the reactors to the final conclusion because we’ve not seen any mitigation… ”
We are all being poisoned. We are all being lied to. There is no way those detonations were due to hydrogen ALONE. The engineering specifications on all containment buildings are built to code to contain such a blast. How much hydrogen can be created from 20-tons of zirconium? I found (online source) around 3,000-lbs? Now, considering, what would 3,000-lbs of hydrogen do to a containment building? Well, just from an observational perspective, I watched ( online) US 2,000-lb bomb detonations, now, that’s way more powerful then 3,000-lbs of Hydrogen, but even with High Grade Explosives, I don’t see re-enforced concrete thrown 1,000-feet into the Sky!
Oh, and Comrades, All this talk about Elephant Foot, I saw it somewhere on here, as a Japanese official claimed it was observed in unit one. Elephant Foot is Molten Corium, as Referenced from the Chernobyl Disaster, it only occurs when the core has breached containment and has spilled out onto the floor. Russians Dropped Lead on It to Stop Reactions, I think, then Boron, however, What were they really dropping at Fukushima? When the Military is called in, it is too late, the Damage has been done. I think they were planning some real nasty stuff, because Nobody, including the engineers in the nuclear industry knew what would happen? Perhaps, they were planning to detonate the Works?
I know Gorbachev was worried about it, See, Battle of Chernobyl, a good documentary on the subject of secondary Explosions!
Though lead is the end product in the deay chain of U and Pu, you would not want to add any lead into any situation where you have exposed fuel. The reasoning is that radiated lead can produce very toxic substances. Not to mention, lead itself is toxic. I think people mistaking believe lead can protect them from radiation. LOL. It absorbs spectra. Nothing more. Nothing less. Except beta is absorbed also. Dropping lead onto a Uranium fire is horribly wrong.
Hi hbjon, did you watch my video? Do you have any ideas or directions you can push me in or link me to?
Anyone who could point me to some scientific papers or knowledge base that could explain such high reading from rain on a Geiger counter would be helpful? Everything I have found that is a possible explanation seems to fall short in one way or another and its back to the drawing board.
Isotopes of bismuth seem to be a top contender for me. Why is it high beta decay with such a short half life is what I don't understand?
Do you think its coming from the uranium mines, toadmac? There doesn't seem to be much else down your way that could account for it. Apart from the nuke spew the f*%king brittish dropped on us with their bomb tests, uranium mining seems to be the only other likely culprit. Unless, of course, its fuku rads that have made their way into our hemisphere. In which case the entire planet is toast, so have a nice day. :\
I am so sorry Toadmac. I tried to watch your videos but my broadband internet keeps freezing and buffering, so I gave up on it. One can gain a tremendous amount of insight by studying the Periodic Table of Elements. As far as the science is concerned, I think a lot of stuff is confidential. Maybe even classified. There's a lot of bad karma in such heavy duty subject matters. I think that at the risk of hearing "crazy talk" we must let people speak their minds. If your one that believes everything you read than I don't think this is the place for you, as you'll only bring the group down to the lowest common denominator.
Many people have the exact same problem? It has to make one wonder? the first two videos I posted got about 3000 views pretty quick and then it just went dead? I have tried watching them on many different friends and work computers to test a theory of mine. About 70-80% of the time I encounter various problems, freezes,wont load,extremely slow download speed etc?
You might wanna ditch wireless broadband if you are concerned about radiation, Toadmac. I find I get sick very fast in the vicinity of wifi stuff. Why microwave yourself if you dont need to? Strange that the hard-wired gear is more expensive than the wifi crap.
I can appreciate you're concerned vivvi, but really, wifi radiation is like banana radiation and it's not even in the realm of nuclear radiation.
You're surround by radio frequencies across all the spectrum, just consider mobile phones as one example.
Please don't cloud the radiation issue by bringing wifi into it, the bananas are enough of s joke.
As for videos, yes, a hardwired connection will always be better then wifi. But a good wifi setup will perform YouTube without any real drama, unless you're trying to do HD, which requires a strong and consistent stream.
The Half life's vary between 20-40 mins? I have friends who calculate isotopic mass (there not experts) and they cant make any sense of it either? It looks like different isotopes or stages of decay almost every time they run a test. There equipment is not flash but works on the most part.
Hey everyone! I post here every blue moon or so, but mostly just lurk. Here is what is on my mind a lot: the government is not concerned with us as long as we stay here, scattered across the planet, voicing our concerns online. That is why we will make no progress toward our goal of shutting down nukes. The government fears groups like this becoming "organized." That is what we need to do. We need to find out how many of us are in areas close together and organize. I am not a leader, but I am sure there are people here who are capable of doing this. How do we do it?
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