FORUM: General Discussion Thread (Nuclear Issues) for Apr. 11-30, 2012

Published: April 10th, 2012 at 12:00 am ET
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Once every month a discussion thread will be posted as a place for general discussion of nuclear issues.

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Published: April 10th, 2012 at 12:00 am ET
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1,010 comments

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1,010 comments to FORUM: General Discussion Thread (Nuclear Issues) for Apr. 11-30, 2012

  • enoughalready45 enoughalready45

    Nuclear Loan Guarantees – Bad Investment or Corporate Handout? by Dennis Kucinich

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEgtAWrV85k&feature=player_embedded

    enoughalready45 says: I don't want any of my tax dollars going to nuclear energy!


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  • openeye openeye

    @Still Jill: thank you!

    Dr. Sircus at imva.org just picked up the same article you and I found:
    "After writing my essay “Radioactive Hell on Earth”—actually I wanted to change that title to “Fukushima on Steroids”—I see Christina Consolo’s essay “Fukushima is Falling Apart”: Are you ready—it is becoming clear that we, our children and our entire civilization is hanging by a thread."

    Man how I would love to move to Brazil, where he and his family are safe for now.


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  • Okay, so I know better, but I couldn't resist. I left a comment on yahoo the other day regarding the jelly fish clogging up a Nuke plant here in California. I was the 1st comment so I thought I would try to make it a good one without getting censored. Usually these stories disappear faster than you can blink an eye, but for some reason this ones still going.
    ___________________________

    Here's the comment:
    "Stop all Nuclear Power Plants NOW. They are nothing more than Death Machines that YOU, the taxpayer, pay for with your dollars and genetic suffering. You've been lied to. It's NOT safe or cheap. See… Fukushima 3 meltdowns. (currently)

    btw – today is the anniversary of Chernobyl. :(

    Why is the horrible truth about our current fallout situation not on the TV? I wonder?"
    ___________________________

    I got 217 thumbs down and 54 thumbs up. (so far)
    42 replies. MOST all name calling and negatives.

    To view click on oldest or most replies:
    http://news.yahoo.com/jellyfish-organisms-shut-down-california-power-plant-195650925–abc-news-tech.html

    …or leave your own reply. Thanks! :)


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    • StillJill StillJill

      ChasAha,…RIGHTEOUS comment,…tasteful,…tempered, (yet still raw). Not easy to do my friend!

      Well done! :-)

      The comments are only a little funny, eh? (Funny, like, "Ha Ha, you're dead!") The naysayers. Just sayin!


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      • Thanks StillJill. Yeah, just a little funny. If I could reply to all of the replies I would be up all night.

        I do see a pattern in their remarks though.

        1. Most are name calling.
        2. Try to divert the conversation
        3. Avoid the word MELTDOWNs
        4. Slam other green technologies
        5. Compare to airplane rides
        6. Mention aliens
        and so on…

        Their BS will not deter me. It seems so obvious to me when I look at this stuff. I wonder if others see it the same way. How could they not?


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        • What-About-The-Kids

          ChasAha, I would not get discouraged. "Consider the source," as my mother would say.

          I would venture to guess that the people who hang out on Yahoo and post comments are mainly
          1) young (immature)
          2) not highly educated or versed in intellectual debate
          3) many people on those kinds of mass media sites actually are bored and have nothing better to do (they think) than look for ways to cause trouble and make useless, nasty and aggressive, rude comments on such forums to pass the time (and perhaps vent their own frustrations and feelings of disempowerment in an anonymous place that makes it safe for them to do so. ;-)

          Hope this helps you feel somewhat better. In future, you could either bypass posting on such sites, or, if you are up for the challenge, consider trying to reach and educate these folks in a subtle manner that just may get through eventually, at least to some of them…

          Anyway, that's been my observations in general about Yahoo…


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  • dosdos dosdos

    California is temporarily nuke power free. Diablo Canyon joins San Ofreno in shutting down, even if only for a few days. No electrical shortages are expected without the nuke generators.

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/27/11432974-diablo-canyon-nuclear-plant-in-california-knocked-offline-by-jellyfish-like-creatures-called-salp?lite


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  • dharmasyd dharmasyd

    Hip Hip for the Jellyfish! They shut down 2 east coast plants last year. Keep it up guys. They're being more effective at shutting them down than we are!


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  • weeman

    Have you noticed the amount of earthquakes in and around Fukushima plant in last few months.
    This is exactly what you would expect if their was a china syndrome occurring.
    Sporatic Criticality is occurring leading to small nuclear explosions in bedrock strata, hence earthquakes


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    • HoTaters

      Where is that coming from? Fukushima Diary and/or EX-SKF reporting the explosion and fire at the plant storing the DU have DU stored over 500 yards away from the explosion and fire.

      See the report at External Links below, then please post whether or not you still think this is occurring. The plant's press release also stated the explosions and fire were over 500 yards from where the DU is stored.


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      • HoTaters

        I generally like DutchSinse, but I wonder if this is dis-info. being circulated, or if it is based on actual measurements of radioactive DU.

        We need to be skeptical of every report that comes out claiming there is a new source of airborne radiological contamination.

        That is NOT to minimize what's already there, which is substantial, and ongoing. Multiple point sources, globally. No denial there!


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        • CB CB

          Exactly!!! I often thought the same. I visited the live chat link when his minions were speaking a few times.
          The chain of command there was illogical when I attempted to communicate the reality of this. Dutch's speakers were down playing Fukushima Calling the information I gave inaccurate, even though I gave reference to statements.
          So I reached through the screen and slapped the speaker, called him a shill. It was fun.


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  • nspector General Faults EPA Radiation Monitoring
    Forbes
    The monitors also serve as collection stations for precipitation, drinking water, and milk samples. In accordance with the Patriot Act, EPA has identified the Radnet system as “critical infrastructure” for homeland security. An EPA Radnet monitoring …

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2012/04/27/inspector-general-faults-epa-radiation-monitoring/


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  • Construction of Chernobyl shelter starts on anniversary

    President Viktor Yanukovych pressed a symbolic button at the construction site, watched by workers and ambassadors from countries including China and Japan that contributed to the huge project, expected to cost 1.5 billion euros. …

    http://news.ph.msn.com/top-stories/article.aspx?cp-documentid=6201595


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Missed this yesterday
    #Fukushima: "Psychological Killer" update 4/27/12: http://youtu.be/xufc_L5QBrc via @youtube


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Scientists altered tests of nukes at test site http://www.lvrj.com/news/doe-plutonium-contamination-forced-shut-down-of-test-site-gas-gun-for-two-years-149162935.html

    How can we fight Nuclear when even the Scientists work against us?
    Oh the slippery slope we're on when even professionals skew results. It makes me sick to my stomach. :(


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    • Read this one. So many good points.

      "Nuclear energy is not a civilian economic activity. It is an appendage of the nuclear weapons industry which is controlled by the so-called defense contractors. The powerful corporate interests behind nuclear energy and nuclear weapons overlap." – from blog

      This is very well written and well organized. Good maps too.

      You truly "say it like it is" Mara Clea. Thank you!

      2 thumbs up for this Whoopie – :)


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    • HoTaters

      Yes, seems well researched. She quotes Lucas Hixson who seems pretty level headed. He does fact checking before he makes statements. He's pretty credible. Thank you, Whoopie. You're unearthing some great finds! You go, girl!


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Media Blackout Continues: Fukushima – Reactor #4 building is on the verge of collapsing, could cause mass extinction (around 2.89 billion people to be exact) http://j.mp/IhuHsR


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    #Fukushima: R U OUT OF U'R MIND? Protecting South Carolina's interests at Yucca Mountain http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/042912-Joe-wilson-column-yucca-mountain–3960221


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    • CaptD CaptD

      Much more info on why San Onofre is the Poster Boy of why reactors need to be shut down! + Remember unlike the East Coast reactors if a West Coast reactor melts down the rest of the USA is Downwind…

      http://sanonofresafety.org/energy-options/


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      • "…if a West Coast reactor melts down the rest of the USA is Downwind…" – CaptD

        That is true. However, sooner or later the winds and waters of the planet will mingle. So just one of these Death Machines, no matter where it's located, can harm (damage DNA) or kill us and everything else.

        They arrogance of those who built these things and those who continue to support the industry without regard for the future of our planet is beyond reproach.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Accumulted dose rate and the fate of Japan..
    Finally someone is beginning to work the numbers.
    Prof. Takeda “3/31/2015 is the last day of Japan”
    http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/04/prof-takeda-3312015-is-the-last-day-of-japan/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FukushimaDiary+%28Fukushima+Diary%29


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Typo..accumulated dose rates..
    This is beyond heartbreaking to think about.
    But it has to be addressed.


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    • CaptD CaptD

      Right On…
      Left unsaid is the fact that the technique used to "take" correct readings can be easily "mis-used" to make the readings appear much lower than they actually are! I'm one of those that believe that the readings coming from the Government are all off by a large factor and will continue to be until there is wide spread citizen self monitoring with personal Geiger counters!

      Case in point, how many folks actually test their own drinking water allowing instead of believing what some Gov't. Lab says it is…

      Good Luck Japan!


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  • StillJill StillJill

    Japanese American Sarah Kaye, TED talk that will ELECTRIFY your mind and DAY! Enjoy!

    She has more on "Hiroshima", and all her 'spoken word' poetry is a GIFT to us all!

    http://www.ted.com/talks/sarah_kay_if_i_should_have_a_daughter.html


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  • StillJill StillJill

    Sarah Kay,…not Kaye (sorry).

    Here's 'Hiroshima'

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJdQHQ6kbv0


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  • Anthony Anthony

    4/27/2012 @ 1:19PM |1,789 views
    Inspector General Faults EPA Radiation Monitoring
    8 comments, 5 called-out
    + Comment now

    An EPA Radnet monitoring station and its volunteer operator. EPA photo.

    An EPA Radnet monitoring station and its volunteer operator. EPA photo.

    Twenty percent of the EPA’s stationary radiation monitors were out of service last year at the time of the Fukushima nuclear accident, leading the U.S. Office of the Inspector General to conclude that the EPA’s Radnet system is “vulnerable” and managed with less urgency and priority than it deserves.

    Broken monitors, parts shortages, “relaxed quality controls” and a lack of volunteer operators left 25 of the EPA’s 124 stationary monitors out of service for an average of 130 days at the beginning of the Fukushima disaster …

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2012/04/27/inspector-general-faults-epa-radiation-monitoring/


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  • NoNukes NoNukes

    I just followed Heart of the Rose over to EX-SKF (thanks Heart), and saw this comment:

    http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2012/04/video-of-inside-reactor-4-bldg-at.html#comment-form

    Karen Sherry Brackett said…
    Unfortunately, after seeing the Chernobyl video, it seems most likely in 24 years we will be seeing the same thing all over again with a nice coat of rust and millions dead from Fukushima. I hoped from the statement in the Chernobyl video that they would finally understand what I have been saying all along which is that you can not put water on damaged fuel. They will never bring this under control because they are purposefully continuing to create release. It's all just a con for money. If you really want to solve this problem the very first thing you do is pump the water out and pump noble gas in. Instead they are doing both at the same time which is a crime against humanity. At least the Russians knew to cap. Although their new billion dollar cover is a joke. a stainless steel cover will do no better of a job of containing dust than the cover they already have. They just need to start dissolving those reactors down and start pumping them out of there. It will be interesting to see who will actually finally man up and solve their nations problem first be it Russia or Japan? Unfortunately, I doubt any of us will live long enough to see it.

    NoNukes: I have often wondered what pouring tons of water over fleeing coriums could possibly do, other than spread the…


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  • NoNukes NoNukes

    radiation, by the ocean to all the countries on the Pacific Rim and beyond, as well as by the air in increased steam events, etc. What do you think?


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    • StillJill StillJill

      I think that is EXACTLY correct! Spread the misery,…just like their philosophy of driving waste to ALL corners of Japan,….MAD, Mutually Assured Destruction. If I die,….I KNOW AT LEAST THAT YOU'RE COMING WITH ME!

      'Unless these days were cut short, NO FLESH WOULD SURVIVE.'
      (Oh that's right,…these are just words)


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  • StillJill StillJill

    O.K. Kiddies,….last one!

    Light and funny, but FAST,…put your thinking caps on!

    Vanquisher of the,….jellyfish.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OAWaxPHQo


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  • vital1 vital1

    A New Zealand radio station GreenplanetFM aired an interview with me. My Geiger Counter detections in the Southern Hemisphere have been helpful in getting publicity on the seriousness of the situation at Fukushima.

    The show has been to air and is now available as a podcast for listening on line, or for download. Because it is on a radio station it may carry more weight when trying to convince friends and relatives. It has with mine. So if you can use it as a resource please do. In the Interview I point people to enenews, Fairewinds, Dr Busby and Dr Caldicott.

    The podcast link is at the top of the page, and the interview starts after a bit of an introduction on synchronicity.

    http://www.greenplanetfm.com/members/greenradio/blog/VIEW/00000001/00000193/Peter-Daley-on-the-Fukushima-Radiation-Cloud-over-Australia–NZ.html#00000193


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  • Jebus Jebus

    The ones in the know, know what to do…

    Former TVA Chairman S. David Freeman calls for end to agency's nuclear building program

    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/apr/27/former-chairman-s-david-freeman-blasts-tva/?local


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Another one bites the radioactive dust!

    UK's 41-Year Old Nuclear Reactor Shuts Down Early
    The reactor was initially scheduled to stop operating on April 30, but after it shut down following an operational issue on Wednesday, operator Magnox decided not to bring it back online..

    http://www.publics.bg/en/news/7859/UKs41-YearOldNuclearReactorShutsDownEarly.html


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  • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

    List Of Countries/Nations Closing Down ALL Nuclear Power Plants; via A Green Road Blog
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/04/list-of-countries-closing-down-all.html


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  • Radiation Detected In Drinking Water In 13 More US Cities, Cesium-137 In Vermont Milk
    Submitted by Truthbearer on Sat, 04/28/2012 – 15:25
    in Off Topic

    This is off topic and we certainly have some campaign priorities that demand all of our attentions, but still on the front burner as a potential game changer is this catastrophic disaster at fukushima.

    In the least, we should be aware of what is happening over there in Japan and know how to protect ourselves from slowly accumulated radiation poisoning. As this gets worse, there may be more and more news like this coverage here.

    Radiation Detected In Drinking Water In 13 More US Cities, Cesium-137 In Vermont Milk:

    One has to wonder if this huge life changing issue will come up in the debates or election at all?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2011/04/09/radiation-detected-in-drinking-water-in-13-more-us-cities-cesium-137-in-vermont-milk/


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  • Japan radiation found at Sequoyah

    Air samples collected at the Sequoyah and Watts Bar nuclear plants last week detected radioactive isotopes from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear crisis in Japan, but local officials say there has been no threat to public health.

    Tisha Calabrese-Benton, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation, said routine monitoring has turned up very low levels of iodine-131, an isotope linked to the Japanese power plant.

    “These detections are 1,000 to 10,000 times below any levels of concern,” Calabrese-Benton said. “They are within the range expected and are far …

    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/apr/07/japan-radiation-found-sequoyah/


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  • Alberta Aurora – Prairie Light timelapse movie by Zoltan Kenwell

    And here is another amazing timelapse video of auroras by Zoltan Kenwell. On April 23/24, 2012 Earth experienced a G=3 geomagnetic storm. The Kp index, a measure of magnetic field, peaked at 6.33 out of a maximum of 9. The result of this disturbance created this Aurora event.

    http://vimeo.com/41065458


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  • snowwy snowwy

    I just checked the RSOE hazard map and found a severe incident being marked at Fukushima Daiichi NPP on the 28th of March 2012.

    http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?pageid=event_summary&edis_id=NC-20120328-34685-JPN

    does anyone know what it was?


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  • bluerthanblu bluerthanblu

    Fyi,
    Nuclear Event in Japan on Wednesday, 28 March, 2012 at 05:45 (05:45 AM) UTC.
    Description (Tab)
    The water level in the containment vessel of the No. 2 reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant is only about 60 centimeters deep, far shallower than previously assumed levels of about four meters, according to Tokyo Electric Power Co. The lower-than-expected water level was discovered for the first time when the power utility used an industrial endoscope to check the crippled reactor's interior on Monday, TEPCO said. According to some experts, it is possible that nuclear fuel that melted through the reactor's pressure vessel and accumulated on the bottom of the containment vessel in the aftermath of the March 11 earthquake and tsunami may not be completely covered in the water. TEPCO said the water temperature in the vessel remained relatively low within a range of 48.5 C to 50 C. The discovery of the unexpectedly shallow water level will not affect TEPCO's judgment that the reactor is in a state of "cold shutdown."


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Nuc News just popped up for Sunday 28th if your interested. I've found alot of good ones from yesterday and today:
    http://nucnews.com/whatsnew.php
    ‘Public Meltdown’ takes aim at aging nuclear plant http://www.sentinelsource.com/life_and_style/books/public-meltdown-takes-aim-at-aging-nuclear-plant/article_dd1c53fc-f528-59ec-836b-f9d331e80d2e.html#.T51B-AknQvo.twitter


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  • Bobby1

    Children play in the radiation dose Koriyama, Fukushima Prefecture (image), outrageous. The image of the measurement 0.8μSv / h, but I see a baby stroller and… Parent, Why not give a damn?

    http://portirland.blogspot.jp/2012/04/blog-post_7048.html#more


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    Some 70 mayors start group seeking society without nuclear power

    A group of local government heads seeking a society that does not rely on nuclear power held its inaugural meeting Saturday in Tokyo with about 70 current and former mayors from 35 of Japan's 47 prefectures being members in the wake of the Fukushima nuclear accident.

    At the meeting which had some 20 participants including Minamisoma Mayor Katsunobu Sakurai from Fukushima Prefecture, the group adopted a resolution urging the central government to incorporate a goal of bringing nuclear power to zero in its new basic energy plan to be compiled this summer.

    Former Fukushima Gov. Eisaku Sato, who became an adviser to the group, criticized the national government's conventional nuclear policy, saying, "The state's logic has been that nuclear power is safe because it is needed."

    Getting there!http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/04/155435.html


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  • How does one discuss this with children? At what age?

    I know this is a touchy subject and I'm sure one with many opinions, but it should be discussed. (Dr. Phil are you out there?)

    It's time. They REALLY need to know. Children sense when things are not being told to them and I think that's worse.

    They should also be taught to follow mitigation efforts, just like we brush our teeth to help prevent cavities. (avoid rain, shoes off, foods sense, etc…)

    Anyone out there with some Child Psychology/Counseling experience?

    Thanks

    [ maybe a Discussion Thread needed for this ]


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    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Hi ChasAha, when Chernobyl exploded (I was 12 at that time), we read this novel at school:
      http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Out-Puffin-Teenage-Books-Series/dp/0140380086/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335716858&sr=8-1

      It's a tough read. But it tells it like it is.


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    • Hi ChasAha…it seems this is one topic that perhaps has been intentionally avoided, but it may be the most important conversations we ever have. I know a few munchinkins 4 and 7 who have been privy to more information about Japan than all adults I run into…other than here. I have found the use of simple words like 'nuclear power plants' 'dangerous' 'explosions' 'radiation' 'rain' 'snow' and 'poison' in conjunction with visual tools such as maps and jet streams, have been very effective to their acceptance and understanding of how life will be forever for them now.

      After this, comes the remedy protocols, which can be made fun (painting feet with iodide, extra doses of vitaminC, baking soda/epsom hot baths, cleansing teas, treasure hunts for pre-fuku food, bentonite and zeolite food washing and new techniques for gardening).

      Children are far more open than we may think and often more accepting than we. Talk to them at their developmental level with as much truth as that will allow. Hard stuff but not something we can shirk out of fear now. They will respond proportionally to how we talk to and treat them.

      In this vein, Reality Check Radiation Exposure and Protection forum has been created with many monitoring and remedy links. Find what they like or peaks their curiosity and let the rad games begin … easy! Make it fun! If you can.
      http://realitycheck.no-ip.info/forum/index.php/board,24.0.html


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      • What-About-The-Kids

        Chemfood, while I appreciate your earnestness in trying to provide helpful radiation remediation information, I must disagree with your idea to make it a game for our children.

        I believe our children deserve as carefree a childhood as possible. Do you really believe that by teaching them that they are possibly being bombarded daily with hidden but deadly radioactive isotopes, and that "we're all gonna have fun now finding ways to hide from the monster" is really the way to approach helping your children live a happy childhood?

        No one knows exactly where this stuff is in our environment, unless they have Gieger Counters, but even then, it is only measuring a small area of soil, food, etc. The way the Fuku fallout fell, in hotspot areas, rather than a complete blanketing of every square foot of our planet, makes it nearly impossible to detect even a small portion of it.

        Do you really envision keeping your children in America (contaminated areas in Japan are a different story) inside, and afraid to venture outside for fear of the invisible killer?

        As adults, yes, we can do remediation protocols without having to drag our children into this mess. Why not let them live as happy a childhood as possible, free from fears of nuclear annihilation or any other possible serious health hazards which we may face?


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Under Control: Relax, Our Nuclear Spill isn't an 'EPPI'

    As much as 15,000 gallons of reactor water contaminated with five times the official safe limit of radioactive Tritium as well as an unknown amount of other dangerous isotopes from the reactor’s fission process blew off a manhole cover and ran out of a large pipe, flowing into a streambed and on into the river from which Philadelphia and a number of smaller towns draw their municipal water supplies.

    ThisCantBeHappening! contacted the NRC regional office with oversight over Limerick and was told that Exelon had only reported the incident to state authorities — the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) and the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency (PEMA). A call to the DEP elicited a response that the state agency, now in the hands of a Republican governor who has shown open distain for environmental concerns ranging from nuclear waste to regulation of natural gas fracking chemicals, that it did not feel it was necessary to issue any public report on the spill. “Exelon assured us that it was not an EPPI incident,” explained DEP regional office spokeswoman Deborah Fries.

    “What’s an EPPI?” she was asked. “It’s an Event of Potential Public Interest,” Fries replied.

    http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1-/11541-limerick-pa-minor-nuclear-accidents-and-other-disasters-not-requiring-the-publics-interest.html


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  • dosdos dosdos

    Fukushima Daiichi #3, 3/15/11, the MOX mortar.

    I have been following the events at Fukushima Dai-Ichi rather closely since the 3/11 earthquake. One issue that has yet to have fully brought to life is the explosion of the #3 reactor on March 15, 2011. Attempts to sweep it under the rug as a simple hydrogen explosion have pretty much prevailed, though there are still those who doubt this cover story, based on a number of factors surrounding the explosion. There was a recorded neutron burst coinciding with the explosion, followed by a massive release of Xenon 133, enough to blanket the entire northern hemisphere, a release greater than the entire release of Chernobyl's combined isotopes. Radiological readings in the area following the explosion are indicative of a nuclear detonation. The fact that the explosion of #3 reactor was not simply a hydrogen deflagration has been scientifically established.

    There was a question as to whether it was the reactor or the spent fuel pool that detonated. But recent remote views of the spent fuel pool released by TEPCO leave little doubt that it was the reactor that detonated. The rod racks, though mostly empty, were relatively intact. And part of the transfer crane landed in the spent fuel pool, something quite likely to happen if the reactor had detonated.

    cont.


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    • dosdos dosdos

      At this point, it is a sure bet that the detonation took place in the reactor. And it is important because of the ratio of the fuel in MOX, which was not that widely stored in the spent fuel pool.

      So, you have the stage set, Mark I reactor running MOX at the time of the earthquake. The cooling system failed, backups were taken out by the tsunami, the meltdown occurred.

      In a GE Mark I reactor, the control rods that dampen the neutron flow are located below the core. It makes for a quick exit from the reactor vessel into the containment vessel, onto the emergency concrete pad, designed to hold and cool a melted core. It's essentially a vat made of concrete that supports the reactor vessel, lined with a thick concrete pad. This herded the melted fuel into one central location. It was designed to do this with LEU (low enriched uranium). The concrete would absorb the heat of the corium (molten core) down to decay heat, where it could be cooled. It worked with LEU because LEU excitement was made possible by slowing the neutron escape with water in a balanced fuel rod configuration. Fission would die out except for decay levels.


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      • dosdos dosdos

        MOX is different from LEU. MOX doesn't depend on arrangement and water for excitement sustainment. It depends on the plutonium oxide for a continual excitement, controlled by placement. MOX will contain from 6% to 18% plutonium in the fuel rods, which is considerably more that the less than .5% plutonium found in spent fuel rods, especially when considering the excitement level. When the core melts, the plutonium melts before the uranium. So you have the plutonium dropping from the reactor vessel to the containment vessel vat, and by weight, sinking below everything else that melted in the meltdown before it (melted metal, actinides, fission products, miscellaneous reactor parts). Then it was followed by the molten uranium, that dropped below and settled directly under the plutonium layer, establishing contact with it.

        So here is the molten uranium layer in contact with the concrete that is being broken apart by heat and water molecules in the concrete, tiny chip by tiny chip that flake from the base and rise to the top of the corium. Above the uranium layer is the plutonium layer, exciting the uranium layer to increase fission state about that of decay. It's still a self-sustaining reaction at the bottom of the vat. But the layers don't mix very much because of the chemical nature of these nuclear fuels, and they stay separated and in direct contact.

        cont


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        • dosdos dosdos

          Desperate to cool the reactors (and with very good reason), TEPCO used saltwater to cool the reactors, because fresh water was not available. This provided a large amount of hydrogen gas from the saltwater/heated zircon encounter that has been attributed to the explosion in the cover story. The hydrogen explosion was visible at the start of the detonation sequence. In very slow sequence in the footage of the explosion, the bright flash of the hydrogen flagration is seen first at one end of the building, then at the other end. It is probably a single explosion at the cap of the containment vessel. This process has been discussed in regard to one of the weaknesses in the Mark I configuration. In short, the bolts that hold down the head have a certain shear tension, first stretching before breaking, essentially allowing pressure to vent horizontally when it exceeds stress point.

          Here we have the start of a flagration from the hydrogen in the reactor and containment vessels because of the pressure in the containment vessel exceeding specs under conditions for which it wasn't designed (saltwater). Two things happen. The escaping hydrogen from the containment vessel is ignited, and the explosions fills the reactor building. At the same time, a shockwave from the explosion is sent down both the reactor vessel and the containment vessel.

          cont


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          • dosdos dosdos

            Both shockwaves meet the corium at the base of the containment vessel. While traveling down the reactor vessel, the shockwave loosens the racks of nuclear fuel and the reactor structure that hasn't melted yet inside the reactor vessel. The shockwave also weakens the base of the reactor vessel where it hadn't yet been eaten through by the molten core.

            Now, the shockwaves reach the layered corium. The layers of uranium and plutonium, that had yet remained separate layers, are suddenly infused into a molten mix. The instantaneous mixing of the uranium layer and the exciting plutonium layer over the entire bottom area of the vat i8n the containment vessel raises the fission level to a criticality that results in detonation. Because of the perpendicular of the layering due to gravity being in the same direction the only direction in which there is no physical containment (straight up out the top of the vat), that is the direction the detonation followed. The detonation took out the brittle base of the reactor vessel, carried all the remaining contents of the reactor through the caps on the reactor and containment, both already stressed by the hydrogen explosion, and through the roof of the reactor building.

            cont


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            • dosdos dosdos

              In short, Unit #3 went off like a classic mortar. It took the entire reactor core and ejected it over a thousand feet into the atmosphere. With it came the huge release of Xeneon into the stratosphere and jet stream, across America and over through Europe. No one in the northern hemisphere was spared this exposure. (And if you think Xenon 133 is harmless because it's a noble gas, you're showing your ignorance. It has drastic effects on the body, especially the lungs.) Along with it came the fissionables, like Cesium 137 and 134, Iodine 131, Strontium 90, and many others. Along with that came the crumbled and melted fuel rods, Plutonium, Uranium, Cadmium, etc, both solid and vaporized. The solids were scattered for miles, and no simple hydrogen explosion could have achieved that. The visible explosion was only a minor part of what came out, the solids. The vapors kept traveling upward with the heat, not restrained by gravity as were the solids.

              The lateral hydrogen explosions did some damage, but the main structural damage came from the detonation. The transfer crane dropped into the spent fuel pool after being ripped apart. The building structure was demolished, far worse than the others. Large parts of the structure dropped below their normal levels. This was the worst nuclear power plant detonation in history, including Chernobyl. It would not have happened in the fuel had been LEU.

              cont


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              • dosdos dosdos

                It happened because it was MOX, creating the exciting molten layer above the uranium layer that allowed the criticality and detonation.

                Surely I am not the only one with a scientific background to have seen this as a possibility. In the discussion on what caused the explosion in #3, mOX was questioned by the NRC. Yet beyond simple speculation that it was a nuclear detonation, nothing has been said in any detail of it being due to MOX. This is because they desperately don't want the future of MOX to die at Fukushima. The prospect of a nuclear detonation being spontaneously possible in a MOX meltdown is not something the nuclear industry wants in the public's consciousness. The source of uranium is even less plentiful than oil, and it will soon be the case where uranium mines can not keep up with the demand of the nuclear industry. To cut off the one possible avenue for reusing spent fuel known today is a suicidal move. So the possibility is not being discussed.

                cont


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                • dosdos dosdos

                  There has been speculation that the explosion was the proverbial China Syndrome steam explosion. The timing of the sequence if the molten MOX had been driven into the water table below the reactor would not been so quickly following the flagration. Also, the direction would have been more lateral, and far more damage would have occurred to the reactor building, because the explosion would not have so laterally contained as it was in the vat at the base of the containment vessel. It would not have all gone straight up, and it would have done more physical damage on the ground around the reactor and to the base of the reactor building.

                  So, here is a very good reason to make MOX illegal globally.


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                  • dosdos dosdos

                    Here are a couple of links for this discussion.

                    http://enenews.com/nrcs-possible-worst-case-scenario-examined-mox-at-no-3-speculated-that-steam-explosion-would-reject-an-entire-core-from-reactor

                    The NRC discusses what happened at #3. MOX is mentioned in question as a possible cause, but it is shelved for "further investigation" while steam is assumed as the cause.

                    http://enenews.com/goddards-journal-analysis-indicates-steam-explosion-reactor-3-entire-core-ejected-nrc-discussed-scenario-transcripts-videos

                    This one shows the vat where the detonation is assumed to have taken place. However, remember that the melting core did not drop as one big glob, but fell through many holes in small streams, not sufficient for a steam explosion.


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                    • Dosdos

                      May I post your analysis on my blog, giving you credit of course?


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                    • Arizonan Arizonan

                      Great discussion! Thank you.


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                    • dosdos dosdos

                      majia, you may repost the analysis, as may anyone else. With the way that the discussion is heading toward the conclusion of a steam explosion, I'm afraid that the MOX issue will get buried in sleight of obsfucation.

                      The more I think about the possibility of it being a steam explosion, the more doubtful I become. The timing of the explosion is much to quick, and too late after the beginning of meltdown for it to be steam.

                      Also, the rate of melt of MOX would have had all sorts of lighter isotopes and metals melting into the vat in small amounts, because the way the control rod housing would have divided the core into smaller parts. The entire bottom of the reactor vessel would have had to give way at once. A hydrogen explosion might have caused a collapse if it had been weakened sufficiently, but the resulting detonation followed much too quickly. I don't care how hot the core was, it wouldn't have detonated that quickly. It was something more violent and instantaneous, hence a small nuclear detonation.

                      I don't buy the steam explosion theory for a lot of reasons.


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                    • Jebus Jebus

                      dossdos,
                      I agree with you 100% on MOX being the cause of the massive ejection of the core in #3.
                      I only added the waterhammer theory as a possible, and I repeat, possible trigger, for the nuclear explosion.
                      There had to be a trigger for the configuration of the corium to achieve criticality. Maybe it was just the quantity of the mox in tight configuration alone that triggered the event…
                      You have more backround than I on this as I have zero formal education on all things nuclear and rely only on my reading comprehension, logic, and common sense.
                      Therefore, I apologize if I am overstepping my limited knowledge on this.


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                    • Jebus Jebus

                      Here is why I added a waterhammer to the discussion:
                      As you say the corium was not fully out of containment in one 2000 + degree blob yet, with the limited amounts of water "boiling" around it. It was still oozing out the bottom. In Tepco's haste to cool the reactor, they started injecting cold seawater into the RPV, through any means they could. The Mox fuel was understandably on the floor of the RPV and not yet all the way through to the PCV and the pad below. The water injection hit the hot corium causing a huge waterhammer, that richocheted off the top of the RPV, lifting the RPV cap, (as arnie has said), just enough to convert massive amounts of energy. Expansion of energy. (hence the loud CLANGS we heard in the early video's) This expanded pressure wave went back down the RPV, knocking the rest of the very hot bottom out of the RPV into the PCV and onto the pad below, giving the now slapped together MOX corium the configuration it needed for criticality and a dirty nuclear explosion shot back up the Primary Containment Vessel around the outside of the Reactor Pressure Vessel, busting through the yellow PCV cap, and out into the sky.

                      ??

                      Just one dumb laymans interpretation of the event, that could be totally wrong on many counts.


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                    • Jebus Jebus

                      Please notice that I did not say steam explosion once, as a waterhammer is very much different than a steam explosion.
                      A steam explosion is an expansion of energy to atmospheric pressure, and a water hammer is an exchange of energy, or pressure wave, inside an enclosed vessel.


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                    • StillJill StillJill

                      dosdos,….I think you know I have agreed with this analysis from the beginning!

                      #4 is a diversion from #3,…we got FUK'd!

                      Your explanation is too good,…seasoned with time, as you mention,…and careful review and study. What 'they' claim does not even sound or 'feel' right to the sharper 'lay person'!

                      Add to this the RAPID onset of illness, mutations, fetal deaths, marine annihilation,…, it gets, "MOXy" REAL FAST!

                      Door #3 took us out!

                      Argued with roomie today about whether or not MOX was used. He has read Arnies, "5 hot particles in Seattle car filters",….12 months ago,…but still says,…Well, maybe the Pu didn't make it here over the ocean'. So tired of 'deniers'! :-( (Sorry, rant off)

                      Meant only to say,….AWESOME job dosdos! So glad Majia's blog readers will get the benefit of some MORE sound reason! Nice blogg BTW! :-)


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                • What-About-The-Kids

                  Dosdos, your estimation of the series of events leading to the explosions in Fuku reactor #3 sounds reasonable to me ( layperson that I admittedly am.)

                  I agree that MOX has shown itself to be too deadly and unstable. I urge you to write your summary in a letter to President Obama, who has continued to tout MOX as the "fuel cycle of the future," when we all know it to be otherwise.

                  I had sent an email to him through an anti-nuclear group last Spring after Fukushima. The reply basicially reaffirmed the belief the recycling of spent fuel, especially from the dismantling of former nuclear weapons as part of the international nuclear arms reduction treaty, was the only option for being able to deal with the huge amount of nuclear waste (a.k.a. "spent fuel") our nation is inundated with in ever-growing amounts.

                  Obviously, some education about the very real dangers of MOX is much needed, and your letter certainly would be a good start. You should also send it to anti-nuclear and non-proliferation organizations so they can use it in their efforts to end the use of MOX.

                  Good work! Thank you!


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              • Jebus Jebus

                ++++++ Kudo's dosdos!
                Add the possibility of a cold seawater induced waterhammer to the + 2000 degree mix that you explained and you have more than enough of a pressure wave to compress the corium into instant recriticality and rejection of all contents into the atmosphere.
                This is the reason for the silence in the world about this event.
                The potential ELE has already happened and the SFP #4 is just icing on the yellow cake, if you will…


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  • Holland Holland

    Can someone verifie if this is true? I'm not knowledgeable enough.

    Japan ‘cloud’ UPDATE — petro-chem or radioactive = west coast arrival now

    http://sincedutch.wordpress.com/

    TIA.


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    • ruth

      Only way to verify if true is to watch the websites with volunteer monitors (Dutch provides 2 good ones) and see if the radiation increases in the next 24 hours. The jet stream from Japan is hitting in BC and Washington on Sunday and moving down the coast to northern CA on Monday. If the radiation monitors show increased readings then you could be reasonably certain that there was some new radiation from the Japanese chemical fire. It could have all dropped in the ocean. Without knowing what chemicals/radiation was released from the fire it is hard to know if their characteristics lend themselves to hanging in the jet stream or dissipating into the ocean. Fortunately, there is no rain going happening on the west coast now so whatever is in the jet stream may stay there and keep on moving with it until rain washes it out.


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    • I would say a cloud or clouds are indeed headed our way.

      My gut feeling is that it's really from Fuku and that the petro fire will be used as a diversion from the truth. That way they can say, it nothing to do with an NPP.
      (They know it's going to show up on detectors. )

      So… they can say… "It's a one time thing, nothing to worry about."

      Or… they can say… "See, more people died at a petro-chem plant than have died at Fukushima."

      Either it is the spin or it will be spun.

      Catch my drift?


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    • Jebus Jebus

      Dr. Richard Alan Miller
      April 28, 2012

      A highly poisonous cloud depleted with uranium and radioactive material is heading towards the United States

      There are many conflicting reports and it remains unclear just how dangerous the cloud is.

      http://www.messagetoeagle.com/images/dangcloud2.jpg

      http://richardalanmiller.com/blog/?p=483


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    • Holland Holland

      Thanks for the comments!


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  • dosdos dosdos

    It happened because it was MOX, creating the exciting molten layer above the uranium layer that allowed the criticality and detonation.

    Surely I am not the only one with a scientific background to have seen this as a possibility. Yet beyond simple speculation that it was a nuclear detonation, nothing has been said in any detail of it being due to MOX. This is because they desperately don't want the future of MOX to die at Fukushima. The prospect of a nuclear detonation being spontaneously possible in a MOX meltdown is not something the nuclear industry wants in the public's consciousness. The source of uranium is even less plentiful than oil, and it will soon be the case where uranium mines can not keep up with the demand of the nuclear industry. To cut off the one possible avenue for reusing spent fuel known today is a suicidal move. So the possibility is not being discussed.

    cont


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  • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

    Great analysis; may agree if someone can do a video that starts outside of reactor 3 building and goes into it, showing intact fuel pool. What if it is not there anymore and they are faking all pics of it?

    How Dangerous Is 400-600 Pounds Of Plutonium Nano Particle Dust Liberated By Fukushima? Via A Green Road Blog http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-dangerous-is-400-600-pounds-of.html

    Hot Particles (Fuel Fleas) From Fukushima Continue To Circulate Globally; via A Green Road Blog http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/04/hot-particles-from-fukushima-continue.html


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  • Jebus Jebus

    I believe that the picture purporting to show the yellow cap on the #3 reactor is either a broken chunk of that cap or it was placed back onto the top of the reactor after the fact. They had plenty of time, materials, and video feed blackouts to do this.
    They also have photoshop!

    Finding pictures of the arrangement of debris just after the event and comparing them to the picture of the cap on the reactor could support the fact that the unbreachable primary containment failed.

    The nuclear industries worst nightmare!


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  • Arizonan Arizonan

    119 of 132 people positive from sampling survey of radioactive substances in urine in Iwate
    Posted by Mochizuki on April 29th, 2012
    http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/04/119-of-132-people-positive-from-sampling-survey-of-radioactive-substances-in-urine-in-iwate/

    Iwate prefecture conducted sampling survey of radioactive substances in urine in Ichinoseki city and Oshu city.

    The result shows cesium was measured from 119 of 132 people (90.1%). The highest reading was 6 Bq/L.

    Chairman of Iwate association of obstetricians and gynecologists, Kobayashi sent public questions to Tasso, Iwate governor.

    Just to note that Chernobyl children arriving in Italy in 1997 had high of 13 Bq/L in urine but at the end of their stay in a cleaner environment it had gone down to 9 Bq/L in urine. See report at:
    http://www.irpa.net/irpa10/cdrom/01166.pdf


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Open Letter to the World / cc: US Government and Media
    http://refreshmentcenter.blogspot.com/2012/04/open-letter-to-world-cc-us-government.html
    UNLESS we ACT to help our fellow sentient beings in Japan to close these reactors down. It may be a first chance for the world to come together and be heroes — and save the day.


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  • arclight arclight

    nuclear cucumbers… on topic i think

    Fukushima cucumbers relabeled and sold in Tokyo
    A fruit and vegetable wholesaler has been repackaging and relabeling cucumbers grown in Fukushima to disguise their origin, authorities said Saturday. Wholesaler Daikanebunki allegedly repackaged…

    http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/fukushima-cucumbers-relabeled-and-sold-in-tokyo?utm_campaign=jt_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=jt_newsletter_2012-04-29_AM

    the comments are interesting

    and this

    http://ex-skf.blogspot.jp/2012/04/now-they-tell-us-wholesaler-in-tokyo.html


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  • CB CB

    The IEA has estimated that the world's _nuclear_ power capacity needs to nearly double by 2025 to… http://dlvr.it/1VZfRv
    ~ The Bangor Daily


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  • http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/36/36843/1.html
    interesting connection to debt crisis, unfortunately in german, the debt crisis is hitting europe hard mainly because of cost for imported energy

    and to admin: submitting tips gives the error : captchatokenini file could not be read


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    • VanneV anne

      Crisis of Gigantic Proportions [Google translation]

      "Specifically in the field of renewable energies in Spain enormous potential lurking here, too, go right a very dangerous path. Instead of investing in these technologies of the future, against all evidence, even the life of an ancient nuclear power plant extended. This is the kiln at Santa Maria de Garoña identical to the wrecked reactor in Fukushima. The not cool problems this reactor are three times not only by the meltdown in Japan has become obvious, but since 1971 known (the not cool problems Fukushima reactors known since 1971).
      The Conservatives also threaten the economic base through holes in the Canary Islands, because there desperately searching for his own oil reserves. On the other hand, it also makes a dangerous dispute with Argentina to defend alleged claims of a Spanish multinational oil companies, who has maneuvered through its policy in a disastrous situation (Spain gives in to Argentina).

      "Here we have in our own country emerging companies whose expertise is not utilized. So there was a solar industry that was once a leader, but was already a victim of the crisis. It has, for example, with Abengoa also has concerns that have the know-how for building larger systems.


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      • VanneV anne

        [cont.]
        The country has sun using photovoltaic and solar thermal systems also have a locational advantage compared to countries in North Africa, through the Desertec project will soon supply Europe with electricity. Because Spain has become part of the European network and would therefore urgently invest in network expansion.

        "While the nuclear power country France in the winter just before the blackout was, once again had to be shut down wind turbines, because the current could not be transported to the neighboring country in Spain. This happens more often, because the nuclear power plants, unlike wind turbines, are difficult to be controlled.
        This luxury can no longer afford to Spain and the energy transition is likely to be the main key for the country to break the vicious downward spiral that turns out more and more debt, pollution, economic decline and unemployment getting faster. To do this, as is also demanded in the working paper are investing in "renewable energy sources, greater energy efficiency and greater energy sufficiency" rather than stick to traditional structures. All should be clear that the prices for gas and oil in the next few years will rise massively. That the desired renaissance of nuclear power was a dead end, is sufficiently proved."
        http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/36/36843/1.html


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    Brazil: Radioactive Selenium-75 Stolen

    Rio de Janeiro – Over the weekend a capsule of radioactive Selenium-75 has been stolen from a vehicle of the company « Arteste Inspección y Servicios de Mantenimiento Industrial ». The authorities warned the perpetrators of the hazardous nature of the chemical element.The material should be used for industrial welding. A health risk exists for all concerned if the capsule is opened improperly.

    The fear of the Brazilian authorities bases on an incident in 1987. At that time, radioactive material was stolen in the Brazilian city of Goiania, and distributed by the thieves among friends and acquaintances. As a result, four people died, parts of the city are still contaminated. The accident was classified a 5 on the International Nuclear Event Scale Rating (INES), which ranges from 1-7. The incident had economically significant consequences for the city and region of Goiânia : 85 houses were contaminated, 7 were demolished.

    It produced 3,500 m³ of radioactively contaminated waste. This must be safely stored in 14 containers for 180 years. Here is the "Parque Estadual Telma Ortegal" was built.

    http://latina-press.com/news/124672-brasilien-radioaktives-selen-75-gestohlen/


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Michele Kearney's Nuclear Wire
    michelekearneynuclearwire.blogspot.com/
    54 seconds ago – NRC and the nuclear industry are attempting to whitewash Fukushima to relicense dangerous nuclear plants like Limerick. Myths and outright lies
    NRC: New Levy nuclear plant safe for environment
    NRC staff recommends renewing license for the Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station in Plymouth
    NOoooooo!


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