FORUM: General Discussion Thread (Nuclear Issues) for June 2012

Published: June 1st, 2012 at 12:00 am ET


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Once every month or so a discussion thread will be posted as a place for general discussion of nuclear issues.

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Published: June 1st, 2012 at 12:00 am ET


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971 comments to FORUM: General Discussion Thread (Nuclear Issues) for June 2012

  • Colorado Springs is on fire. over 32,000 evacuated so far. I have to ask: are any of these big fires approaching nuclear sites, such as Rocky Flats?

  • weeman

    What kind of logic is behind restarting reactors in Japan, when we do not know what caused melt downs, tsunami or earthquake.
    Do you not think we should have the answer to this before restart.
    My personnel believe is that the plant was already in dire straights before tsunami, radiation detected before tsunami, reports from workers that major water pipes broken and major damage.
    If so their should be no restart of reactors ever.
    Tell me would you not want to know 100 present the answer to this question and since we can not get near these reactors the true answer is years away.
    It seems to me that the higher powers in Japan are going insane due to radiation, their neurons in their thick skulls have been damaged and are no longer able to make logical decisions and should be removed from office, they are sick and should be impeached and sent to prison or hospital.

    • crystalwind crystalwind

      …"already in dire straits before tsunami…": way back when it happened, there had been elevated readings near the plant within a few days before the tsunami. As I recall, they had been called "hot spots" near R3. Forgive my aging brain, it's been a year and a half.

  • enoughalready45 enoughalready45

    This Friday, another protest in Chicago to support Japanese.
    (also posted in Forum: Upcoming Events)

  • Jebus Jebus

    Hey Arclight, heads up! Got any reports on this….

    EDF Energy stops UK nuclear unit in unplanned outage

    • Sue

      Yeah, hot on the heels of last Friday's unplanned outage at Dungeness NPP. Don't tell me, another boiler problem!

  • dharmasyd dharmasyd

    Earthquake off NE coast of Japan, near Fukushima. Reports say between 5.2 and 6.0. I'm not checking further on this tonight. Too tired. But I wanted to give a heads up to you guys who are still wide eyed and bushy tailed!

  • 600 x cancer rise investigated.
    (Osaka, Japan)

    I think this is a diversion.

    "It has come to light that 12 people who worked at a printing company in Osaka, western Japan, developed bile-duct cancer and 7 of them died." – from article

    "The University of Occupational and Environmental Health, which looked into the matter, says the death rate from the cancer at the company was more than 600 times the average among Japanese men. The university's researchers say chemicals in the cleansing agent MAY be to blame." – from article

    How about radiation contamination? Did they eat sushi at the same restaurant at lunch one day perhaps? We may never know and for those who died, they will never know either.

    from NHK:

    [Thursday, June 28, 2012]

    [Comment below article:]:
    "Nuclear power plants are the most expensive, dangerous and insane ways to boil water ever invented. They could not exist without massive public doles and bailouts.

    Despite the fact that there are infinitely safer alternatives, which along with job-creating energy conservation could begin now — today — these true believers push nukes, which take about 1/4 of a century to come on line, as the solution to our energy needs.

    But we just don't get it, you know. We are being duped by pseudo-science. We're conflating nuke power with nuke weaponry.

    Bullshit. It is precisely BECAUSE we understand the science that we oppose them. There is not now nor will there ever be a "safe" place to store the crap they produce. Mark my word, their final solution will be to shoot the stuff off into space once their pie-in-the-sky dreams of reusing the trash evaporate.

    These contraptions are one well-placed missile, highjacked airliner or earthquake (probably induced by a fracking job up the road) away from becoming a nuclear weapon. OMG — I've conflated!

    Here is the premise from which all your declarations must flow: You cannot build these things until they are safe. You have no right — moral or otherwise — to foist your toxic and life-ending garbage onto us nor the billions of the unborn just because you are too selfish and and intellectually lazy to come up with a…

  • enoughalready45 enoughalready45

    Protest today in Chicago of Ohi Reactor Restart

    Photo of Ohi reactor site overlaid with known earthquake faults in red. Fault labeled F6 is believed to be active. The Japanese government wants to restart 2 of the Ohi reactors this weekend.

    For Protest Information:

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    After Fukushima, Stein calls for 100% renewable energy economy
    March 12, 2012 ·
    " Party presidential candidate Jill Stein marked the first anniversary of the Fukushima meltdown, and the resultant deaths and estimated $250 billion in cleanup costs, by calling for a Green New Deal to begin an immediate move to a 100% renewable energy economy. Dr. Stein said the Obama White House “has shown it has learned nothing” by promoting nuclear power plants at a time when much of the world is shifting away from them after the Japanese nuclear disaster.

    "'A Green president would invest in wind, solar and geothermal, emphasize efficiency and conservation, phase out nuclear power plants, and move to a carbon-free economy to deal with climate change. We would immediately end Obama’s expensive subsidies for nuclear power as well as fossil fuels, and use those funds instead to kick off a job-producing energy program based on clean, safe and renewable energy,' said Stein.

    "Stein said she would push for the immediate shutdown of the 23 Fukushima-style GE Mark I reactors as the first step in moving to a nuclear-free America.

  • WildTurnip WildTurnip

    From RSOE…radioactive pet food bowls…

    HAZMAT in USA on Saturday, 30 June, 2012 at 12:41 (12:41 PM) UTC.

    Stainless steel pet bowls contaminated with low levels of radioactive material might have been shipped to 11 Petco stores throughout Illinois, state officials said Friday.

    Two contaminated bowls were discovered on Friday by state inspectors at a Petco store at 2000 N. Clybourn Ave., Chicago, according to a release from the Illinois Emergency Management Agency. The state agency also said five possibly contaminated bowls might have been sold from the Clybourn store between June 14 and 15. The bowls contained traces of cobalt-60, the statement said, but the highest radiation level detect was so low that holding one of the bowl for about six and a half days would be equivalent to an x-ray scan. “These bowls do not pose an immediate health risk, but we always want to prevent unnecessary exposure to radiation,” said IEMA Director Jonathon Monken in a statement.

    The shipment containing the contaminated bowls was received by a distribution center in Joliet, where inspectors found “several items” that imitated radiation, the IEMA said. The bowls have since been pulled from shelves, and state and federal officials are working with Petco officials to isolate any contaminated bowls, the IEMA said. “We will continue to work closely with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission and store officials until we confirm that all items have been located and secured,” Monken…

  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    It was discovered on June 30 that the Japan Nuclear Energy Safety Organization (JNES) had drafted the plan for the National Nuclear Emergency Preparedness Training [last year] that would exclude the possibility of core meltdown as had happened in the Fukushima nuclear accident and avoid assumption of the worst-case scenario. JNES had been instructed to draft the plan [by the national government].

    [The reason for excluding "core melt"] was because it would increase uneasiness among the local residents. In the meantime, the plan assumed the Off-Site Centers, which didn't work in the Fukushima nuclear accident, would be functioning fully after a certain period of time.

  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    UC Berkeley is pleased to announce that our Department has been awarded a Presidential Citation from the American Nuclear Society:

    For serving at the leading edge of communication to educate California and the nation about radiological impact to the U.S. from the Fukushima incident. By collecting atmospheric-transported radiation samples from Japan, explaining the significance to the public via public forums and the UC-Berkeley Nuclear Engineering Air Monitoring Station website, the UC-Berkeley Nuclear Engineering Department gained national recognition as a trusted source for rational, accurate and authoritative information about radioactivity and its potential impacts on the U.S. population.

  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    American Nuclear Society (ANS) President Eric Loewen, PhD, presented ANS members Meredith J. Angwin and Howard C. Shaffer, III with Presidential Citations in recognition of their successful public information efforts in Vermont and elsewhere.

    “Meredith Angwin and Howard Shaffer have inspired nuclear proponents across the country by shaping the public debate over nuclear energy using facts and technical credibility,” said Loewen. “Their success in making sure that accurate information is shared in public venues will continue to benefit the nation moving forward.”

    • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

      American Nuclear Society (ANS) President Eric Loewen today announced that Ms. Kristine Svinicki of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission will receive a 2012 ANS Presidential Citation.

      “Commissioner Svinicki has demonstrated leadership and adherence to the highest standards of professional conduct while serving on the Commission,” said Loewen. “She combines an unshakeable demeanor with proven technical and professional qualifications, and we support her nomination to a second term as NRC Commissioner.”

      Commissioner Kristine L. Svinicki—For courageous leadership, dedication to public service, and unwavering commitment to a regulatory framework that enables and facilitates safe and secure use of nuclear technology.

      She is a longstanding ANS member, where she served two terms on the ANS Special Committee on Nuclear Non-Proliferation. In 2006—before she was nominated to be NRC Commissioner—the Society honored her with a Presidential Citation in recognition of her contributions to the nuclear energy, science, and technology policies of the United States.

      • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

        The American Nuclear Society was founded on December 11, 1954. ANS has been a leader in the development of nuclear consensus standards since 1958. The main objective of ANS is to promote the advancement of science and engineering relating to the atomic nucleus.

        • richard richard

          Hi MIH, why are you posting so much of this ANuS propaganda. I can't stand seeing the garbage being promoted.

          A short summary is fine, but repeating their website seems a little overwhelming. They are disgusting and need to be stopped.

          • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

            This info is to show…do NOT believe what UC Berkeley, the Ms. Kristine Svinicki of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission becasue they have been bought by a group that promotes Nuclear.

            Richard most people do not know that this group buys these people…exposing who they bought & below how they are using children. Exposing them is the only way they can be stopped.

            • richard richard

              hi Maiden, yeah, I do appreciate that angle. I was a bit over reactive this morning.

              best wishes to you.

    • richard richard

      Friggin ANuS can jam themselves up their collective selves. corrupt fools that they are. Some one stop these morons please, this is just craziness.

      I've said it before, the best thing I can see about the future is that I won't be here.

  • MaidenHeaven MaidenHeaven

    Below is an example of using children who have No idea of the dangers of Nuclear to write letters to their politicians to Encourage Nuclear Power.

    More scum of the earth using children…which will result in more children suffering & dying of cancers & other effects of radiation.

    "This past October, the Michigan American Nuclear Society hosted an essay contest as part of Careers in Energy Week asking high school students to do just that. The “Get into Nuclear Energy” essay contest targeted raising awareness of nuclear energy careers among Michigan high school students. The contest asked students to explain why nuclear energy workers have and continue to improve our local communities. The contest, which was funded by an Entergy Nuclear grant, awarded the first, second, and third place winners with an iPad, iTouch, and iPod Nano, respectively. The contest also awarded the schools with the highest percentage of participation with a monetary donation to their science department."

    "The Michigan American Nuclear Society is looking forward to hosting another essay contest to ring in National Nuclear Science Week. This time around the contest wil ask high school students to write a persuasive letter to their local Congressperson or Senator describing why nuclear energy should continue be a part of our national energy portfolio."

  • CB CB

    Angama ‏@Angama_Market
    くっそ、、おれには見てるしか出来ないのか。 ( #IWJ_OITA1 live at

  • arclight arclight

    Serious safety problems found in 8 of France’s nuclear reactors
    by Christina MacPherson

    "…Severe abnormalities detected on fuel pools of eight French reactors Greenpeace France 29 June 12 Network “power without atoms” received and analyzed internal documents released today to EDF and IRSN who report anomalies on fuel pools of nuclear reactors Paluel, Flamanville and St. Alban. Abnormalities that could have serious consequences in case of earthquake…"

    "..Indeed, in January 2012, anomalies in the case of the siphon Cattenom plant had been detected and classified in Tier 2 of the scale Ines ASN (see ASN class to level 2 on the INES non-compliance with a piping of reactor pools 2 and 3 of the Cattenom plant ). Yet this same problem still exists, today, on no less than eight reactors, so that of St. Alban, who had been judged “laggard” for several years in terms of compliance with safety procedures by the ASN it same…"

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Fukushima meltdown BREAKING NEWS 6/30/12 kevin d. blanch # 4 IN TROUBLE

  • richard richard

    "Japan’s invisible enemy within":Radioactivity

    By Kyoko Hasegawa and Karyn Poupée

    "The accident at the Fukushima nuclear power plant, … shattered this age-old faith in the purity of Japanese comestibles. Even the country’s most cherished and emblematic staple, rice, has been tainted in a way that was unimaginable before March 11. The very products – many of them cultural icons – that had always been deeply reassuring precisely because of their native origins were suddenly perceived as potentially poisonous, transformed overnight from sources of comfort to objects of fear."

    "Anything that can penetrate inside our bodies fills us with apprehension, and triggers an ancestral or ancient fear," said Herve Chneiweiss, a neurologist at the Centre for Psychiatry and Neuroscience at Universite Paris Descartes. When the culprit is invisible, odorless, tasteless — beyond, in other words, the reach of perception — that angst is magnified even more."

    Publication date:
    Friday, May 4, 2012 – 16:00

  • mungo mungo

    new update from ex-skf about spf4 (UPDATE) TEPCO managed to bypass the UPS and restarted the cooling system at 3:07PM on July 1. At the time of the restart, the temperature of the water inside the Spent Fuel Pool was 42.9 degrees Celsius. TEPCO plans to replace the faulty UPS this week. (From the tweets of another independent journalist who receives TEPCO email.)

  • Cisco Cisco

    Can we have an adult conversation about this?

    In the 1959 movie, “On the Beach", the government furnished suicide pills to the elite and some others. I've read "Final Exit", and based on what I've read, there is no pill readily available that will provide a quick and painless death.

    I'd be pleased to hear from any of you that have been considering this alternative to a slow and painful life termination from radiation poisoning.

    I know this subject is morose; but, if you have not considered it, you are living in a dream world.

    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Hi Cisco, there's a Swiss group called "Dignitas" which provides assistance to suicide. From their website:
      "DIGNITAS procures the necessary medication for this, a lethal, fast-acting and completely painless barbiturate which is dissolved in ordinary drinking water. After taking it, the patient falls asleep within a few minutes, after which sleep passes peacefully and completely painlessly into death."

      There is quite a controversy around them, but in general I think everyone has the right to decide about his/her own life and death. We euthanize animals which are in pain – I never understood why we expect our fellow humans to suffer…

      * (also in English)

      • Cisco Cisco

        I am familiar with the organization, and it is impractical for what confronts the current situation. Dignitas is about assisted suicide for terminal illnesses and requires about 3/4 months to arrange one's demise. Thank you for your suggestion, though.

      • WindorSolarPlease

        Hi B&B

        We have a legal way to let people go..It's hospice..They give the patient morphine with no added life support, no food, no water, no IV. The body gives up. This is done with the Doctors and Family approval.

        I don't see how this is different than giving a person a pill to fall asleep and not wake up. The out come is the same, except one is faster than the other.

        Since hospice is legal then that pill also should be legal with the same rules.

        When there is no chance of recovery, and they are in pain, then let them leave this world pain free.

  • @cisco…

    In my opinion such "medications" do indeed exist…

    However your questions on alternative are vague; I suppose most people will do what most people do (their pursuit of happiness). Which ever method in which best suites them, in all reality…


    A slow radiation death is what many of us are facing now, In the broad scope of events, and in addition to the reactors current status's I feel that this event in particular may indeed not pan out as slowly as you may be expecting…

    Take reactor 4 for example. If it collapses it will fry all wireless / electronic signals and human life within x miles (likely 40 or more) This will all happen almost immediately… (within a few hours if not days)

    Then comes the domino effect, and within weeks of the crisis beginning: The cooling systems to reactors 1, 2, and 3 will all begin to fail… (due to the conditions on site).
    Making the common spent fuel pool, the reactors 5 and 6, and also 2 go all fuku… Then we can expect the sfp's of 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6, to dry up within hours of cooling system failure, unleashing its fuel into large amounts of hydrogen and also radioactive peroxides… Which in turn will lead to heat and beta decay, as well as the fuel pools collapse's…

    This will be equal to the equivalent of hiroshima with a x 1,000,000 if not 1,000,000,000,000 multiplier…

    • once the radiation takes flight, killing most of japan, Each and every nuclear site in the continent of japan, will be effected, and share the same fate…

      Leading to apocalyptic amounts of radiation all across the globe. (Both hemispheres will be effected)….Then once western nations citizens are effected with severe acute radiation poisoning; the domino effect will lead to multi national, implications at their nuclear facilities…

      In all reality, this effect has nothing to do with only reactor 4…

      If reactor 1's china syndrome has a hyper criticality, or a tsunami hits, or a eq cracks the number 4 fuel pool, or a random unintended plutonium chain reaction re occurs, or reactor 2's hydrogen level rises, or reactors 5, and 6, have a problem that effect the state of any other reactor…

      Or ect ect ect…

      Its a dangerous time to be living on planet earth…
      Very very very dangerous indeed…

      • If you are just asking my personal state of action…

        I will follow my own pursuit of happiness; the choice of taking such a pill would only exist and be effective if there was a need and a pain…

        I doubt the events described will be very painful…

        Almost like going to sleep and not waking up…
        Maybe a slight bloody nose and head rush…

        We will just have to wait and see.

    • WindorSolarPlease

      Tacomagroove you don't mince words, you tell it like how it just might very well happen, and you tell it simple for this old lady to understand.

      Even though I want to prove you wrong, I can't. I appreciate your honesty, it's refreshing. Thank You.

      My best to everyone, praying that the genius's of this world will have time to figure this out.