FORUM: General Nuclear Issues Discussion Thread — New as of April 2016

Published: January 1st, 2016 at 11:06 am ET


Thread Guidelines:

  • This is a discussion thread intended for general Fukushima information and all other matters related to nuclear power.
  • For all other topics, please use the off-topic discussion forum.

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Published: January 1st, 2016 at 11:06 am ET


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11,548 comments to FORUM: General Nuclear Issues Discussion Thread — New as of April 2016

  • razzz razzz

    'How the U.S. Is Recovering Oil from a Nuked Warship'
    [With nuke video]

    "The U.S. military is trying to recover the oil form a ship that's been underwater for 72 years. In an interesting twist, it's not even an American warship.

    The United States captured the German heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen as a war prize after the end of World War II. The Prinz Eugen capsized in 1946 after being nuked—twice—during the atomic bomb tests at Bikini Atoll. For decades, experts have feared that the radioactive ship's oil might leak into the Pacific. Now the Pentagon is trying to do something about it…"

  • 'Somber day' as nation's oldest nuclear plant closes. What's next?

    September 18, 2018

    “A chapter in New Jersey history came to a close on Monday as Exelon's Oyster Creek Generating Station was shut down for the final time….”

  • Jebus Jebus

    Yes it is.

    If it's not the north sea and it's decades of effluents, the mediterranean and it's industries plus chernobyl, so it's the pacific with it's wash out events plus fuku, to the GOM and it's industry with a huge leak that continues today.

    "Federal government lawyers say a 14-year-old leak is releasing much more oil each day into the Gulf of Mexico than officials previously claimed, and it may be getting worse."

    And to fuck it all away close to those who are most deserved, we have florence and the great wash out, in an area that has a lot to wash out.


    Not lookin good for the Ocean. A washing machine, on spin, with a brick inside…

  • Jebus Jebus

    To Save Ourselves It's Time to Rethink Our Economic System, Warn Scientists

    The market is killing the planet.

    The planet is struggling. Study after scientific study warns that we've pushed far beyond the physical boundaries of what our living world can sustain.

    • slandermen slandermen

      I struggle to see what they were trying to say there. I mean, I understand too much greed, exploitation, manufacturing, mining, etc causes problems.

      "Meanwhile, experts around the world are exploring alternative ways we can set up our economic systems, such as Doughnut Economics, Post Growth Economics, Prosperity without Growth and Steady State Economy – and Järvensivu and colleagues have asked all forward-thinking leaders around the world to start testing possible transitional strategies, such as a universal job guarantee.

      These suggestions are pretty daunting, but if we humans have proven anything with our time on Earth so far, it's that we can achieve incredible things when we work together."

      I mean, it ends with that, and I have to laugh at that, tbh. The economic system and universal job guarantee fixing the planet? Fuckoff.

      • slandermen slandermen

        Ironically, it seems the article is trying to suggest a form of accelerated industrialism and more involvement, since it talks about job guarantees and post-ww2 industry.

        Yeah, that wasn't a good thing, btw. Also, I remember some places that had job guarantees, their environment didn't improve.

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      About time..change is way past due.

      People are Crazy I tell you..Bat-Shit Crazy!

      You have to get mad!

      I am a human being gawd damn it!

      See what Capitalism does to people? Over Money?

      • slandermen slandermen

        Well you guys can go join those political agendas with government imposition as saviours, their suggestions always work and it's always very truthful and it's never in their interest.

        I'm sure you will be afforded the same shit Bill Gates, Al Gore and Jeff Bezos will be, and I'm sure they'll respect those ideals, uh huh, yep, Donald Trump will help you clean up the streets too, just like he did with 9/11.

        I'll be sitting that one out, thanks.

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      Moon Landing?

      All documentation lost..I have boots that are 40 years old sitting in my garage.

      Yet a billion dollar a year agency loses everything concerning the moon landings?


  • unincredulous unincredulous

    On Tepco webcam right now there's a bunch of guys working with the crane. They probably make $18 bucks a day. And the food in the cafeteria is grown in Fukushima. Talk about your perks. I wonder what they have to pay for such fine food… and the water from the local river is the finest in Japan 😉

  • slandermen slandermen

    Let's say I gathered a lot of resources and assets, how would I then maximize inequality, disparity and ensure others cannot approach my riches?

    By imposing restrictions on what you can gain, with law and regulations, through governance. That would of course have a number of other direct and indirect effects too, such as less freedom and liberty, etc.

    I mean, that's what I would do, shit, pretty sure governments and corporations do that fairly often.

  • slandermen slandermen

    Like, is this supposed to be meaningful? I mean, it's bad, in a sense, but for all the wrong reasons. It's supposed to be about "environmental policy" but it's completely ignorant, it only makes a passing mention about the real problem.

    Honestly, I'm totally okay with damage to that sort of agriculture, I'm just disappointed that not more was destroyed.

  • slandermen slandermen

    New Mexico Sheriff Demands Answers, Calls FBI 'Chicken Shit' Over Handling of Mysterious Observatory Closure

  • "…The company is planning to shut down the Davis-Besse nuclear plant, east of Toledo, on June 1, 2020, the Perry nuclear plant east of Cleveland and one of the two-reactor Beaver Valley plant near Pittsburgh on June 1, 2021, and the second Beaver Valley reactor on Oct. 31, 2021…."

  • Ambiorix Ambiorix

    The OT does not load for me so i have to post it here..and funny that , i remember a shill/gnat repeating the same crap against wind here a few times..

    Trump has had it out for wind power since at least 2012

    "Exactly six years ago Friday, in 2012, President Trump fired off a tweet about wind power, bald eagles, and the environment. Wind turbines, he said, are an “environmental and aesthetic disaster.”

    "The Audubon Society estimates that wind turbines kill somewhere between 140,000 to 328,000 birds every year in North America. That’s a lot of birds! As far as renewable energy options go, turbines do indeed pose the biggest threat to avian creatures. Fossil fuels, however, kill far more birds — including eagles. "

    "This tweet was just one of many times Trump went after wind power. Just a couple of weeks ago, the president blasted “windmills” for needing government subsidies at a fundraiser in Upstate, New York. “Who wants energy where you need a subsidy?” he asked, conveniently forgetting to mention his forthcoming plan to save the coal industry."

  • slandermen slandermen

    Yeah, it loads sometimes, try click some of the posts in ot rather than ot itself, sometimes works, I dunno. It's fucked.

    Anyway, 10 billion chickens, 100 billion eggs. That's industrial agricultural and consumerism, in america.

  • Ambiorix Ambiorix

    OT fail to load..sry.

    Wall Street pay is the highest since the financial crisis

    Wall Street pay keeps rising.

    Including bonuses, the average salary in New York City's securities industry jumped by 13% to $422,500 in 2017, according to a report from New York State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli.

    That's the highest figure since 2008 and the third-highest on record, once adjusted for inflation.

    "Ten years after Lehman Brothers' collapse it is clear that Wall St. does not need to return to the days of excessive risk-taking to enjoy rising profits," DiNapoli said in a statement.

  • AirSepTech AirSepTech

    'the end result remains the same: our unquestioning acquiescence to anything the government wants to do in exchange for the phantom promise of safety and security.'

    Free shit, .gov gots some free shit, come get yer free shit here, vote for me so you can give yourself some free shit.

    They would like to pass it through the little slot in your cage.
    Safe and secure. 🙁

  • Ambiorix Ambiorix

    EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals

    'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'

    Migrants from the EU contribute £2,300 more to the exchequer each year in net terms than the average adult, the analysis for the government has found.

    And, over their lifetimes, they pay in £78,000 more than they take out in public services and benefits – while the average UK citizen’s net lifetime contribution is zero.

    • slandermen slandermen

      Do you know why? Because the british have a really fucked up orwellian "socialist" society, rife with classism, imperial legacy.

      “When it comes to the public finances, European migrants contribute substantially more than they cost, easing the tax burden on other taxpayers,”

      Remember, that says european migrants, contributing money…wonderful. All that means is highly skilled romanians, polish and bulgarians vs the average football supporting hooligan.

    • AirSepTech AirSepTech

      Hahaha, I would think,,, like the USA, if you leave, you will be paying MORE taxes. A lot more, typically.

      People don't leave home to make less income, if they are really working, and not in some .gov leech sucking motivation.

      They make more, pay more tax.
      Not to mention the tax in the country the have migrated/visa-ed to.

      OH,,,they forgot to mention that extra tax.

      It's a great system. 🙁

      • slandermen slandermen

        It's even simpler, a lot of those EU migrants would be from countries with shitty conditions and economic situations. To the point that you could be twice as skilled in say, hungary, than a brit, and make half as much in the respective countries (let's think about why, since that actually relates to the "strength" of a region like the UK, or america)

  • slandermen slandermen

    I mean, in a rhetorical sense, if there is an entity or group or something that consistently panders for your support, to promote their ideals, to join them, to ask you to fight for their cause, etc. That's a form of insecurity right? That's a neediness, surely?

    Oh yeah, now considering that as the fundamentals of the appeals, would it not be ironic to consider that these people suggest "security", when so often, they have been found to be involved with quite the opposite, considering the state of their implementations, methodologies, their demand?

    Now, if I said, does that sound like your politicians, thinktanks, corporations and so on, would it be untrue?

    They constantly advertize, they regularly fail, they're often incompetent and complicit in the shit they use for agendas and they almost never provide any benefit, despite their promises, suggestions of benevolence and philanthropy.

    When the american military or a large corporation speaks of say, their environmental concerns, does it not ring hollow with a rich stench of hypocrisy?

    Why the need? Surely, when a corporation (not just, you can apply that idea to a number of conceptual entities) tries to sell shit, it's from the basis of insecurity. Insecurity is thus, the driving factor in modern society.

  • slandermen slandermen

    I mean, the pope says abuse victims and supporters are satanic wild dogs. He also supports uforms of despotic "communist" governance dictated by institutionalized church rule, aided by say, anarchic immgration policies (likely because most morons are religious, meaning support in one form or another). Oh yeah, and he really has a lot to say about carbon.

  • slandermen slandermen

    What sort of really awesome genocidal means can you stealthily, but globally implement within a few months?

  • slandermen slandermen

    I would have to imagine it being related to some sort of shared factor in agriculture.

    • slandermen slandermen

      Hey this is pretty close.

      "Scientists Are Turning Zika Virus Into a Weapon Against Brain Cancer"

      "A devastating viral disease could actually help treat and prevent brain cancer in the future, suggests yet more research, published Tuesday in MBio. Researchers at the University of Texas and elsewhere successfully used a modified version of the Zika virus to selectively kill off certain stem cells that allow brain…"

      Yes, well first of all, zika was not, and is not devastating. Most of the problems attributed to zika, surprisingly, related to agriculture. Then, the shit used against zika (shit sprayed in say, florida) caused the very symptoms, and worse, that zika was blamed for (according to those who promoted those chemicals, mosquito engineering, etc).

      It is unfortunate, as I've read a few of Ed Cara's articles and while he's a handsome man, he's particularly fucking dumb.


    Duke Energy's Brunswick Nuclear Plant,is located about 30 miles south of Wilmington NC and under a declared state of emergency,the lowest required by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, after roads surrounding the 1,200-acre complex were impacted by flooding and downed trees.

    “None of the roads are passable,” NRC spokesman Joey Ledford told the News & Observer. “The plant is safe. The reactors are in hot stand-by mode 3 shutdown.”

    I was curious what "hot stand-by mode 3" meant. So I hunted around and this is part of what I found.

    The term "hot stand-by" refers to a redundant system that runs parallel to the Primary system. So I thought it did not make much sense.

    Here is the website URL

    Please read it for the rest of the story. There really is a lot going on concerning radioactive contamination in the world but there is so much silence.
    I am doing my little bit to shout through the silence.

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      TREV, am not sure you technically can have such a thing as a "hot shutdown" mode. Confusing wording. Hot running mode generally means the fuel rods are at least partyly engaged. Maybe it means this (see gradual shutdown):

      Residual system heat present, but probability of secondary criticality is removed. Technically a state of "sub-criticality."

      Maybe they're in a partial or gradual shutdown mode? (How is that possible if the site is not manned? Was it done prior to an evac operation?)

      Sounds like the reactor/reactors weren't scrammed.

      It sounds like they are referring to a gradual shutdown with high residual heat.

  • Jebus Jebus

    "Decades of deceit have been thrown overboard with the new nuclear sales pitch, argues JIM GREEN. The new sales pitch openly links nuclear power to weapons and argues that weapons programs will be jeopardised unless greater subsidies are provided for the civil nuclear industry"

    • PlowboyGrownUp

      The deceit started with 'atoms for peace' for sure.
      "But not all of the news is good, as the programme contributed to heightened nuclear risks. Atoms for Peace provided political cover for the biggest nuclear arms build-up in US history, and helped fuel the Cold War arms race."

    • danger kitty danger kitty

      Wow, that shellenberger creature is quite the accomplished contortionist, getting himself all twisted into knots like that.
      The 'genius' ran for governor of the empire of California the last go around—> On a platform that nuke power is the salvation of us all !!!
      Saving us from Co2, I guess. He's a bit twitchy on tweeter, blocks ya at first hint of dissent.
      But, man, his publicity portraits come out great. Always show him thinking ….hard…concernedly. As if he was Christ…on a nuclear cross/whipping post.

      Cue some Allman bros…

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        next they will invoke jobs creation. People are basically full on idiots.
        The borg effect of civilization is very precarious. People forget it was quite an effort for them to learn the alphabet, addition, subtraction and division.

        Man the inverter; exploitation = freedom, ecodestruction = development, war expenditure = peace, debt = wealth, military imperialism = democracy

        • danger kitty danger kitty

          Oh, nuclear power is a real job creator. Mos def. The cost will be increasingly at the downstream end…cleanup of sacrifice zones.
          What you might call the consumer level.
          But, hey, it adds to the GDP, right?

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks


          Star Trek – We are the Borg (2013) – YouTube
          Video for we are borg youtube▶ 6:44

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Thank you for pointing out the Orwellian wording, Code. Hmmn, yes, that's why the use of the term "democracy" bandied about makes me nervous. Although I appreciate the good intentions of the people who idealize the concept of "democracy" in the classical sense. (Are they even aware their ideal is a form of classical democracy seen only once in recorded history?)

          Ditto for sustainability. Both are terms co-opted by TPTB.

      • slandermen slandermen

        Yeah if you go through the history of this site, you'll notice he's been mentioned before.

        "The writings of Shellenberger have been praised and criticized. Wired magazine wrote that Break Through "could turn out to be the best thing to happen to environmentalism since Rachel Carson's Silent Spring.""

        This is also why I say that is a piece of shit.

  • HoTaters HoTaters

    Not sure if anyone else has posted this story:

    "Japan Acknowledges First Radiation Death from Fukushima Disaster"

    Note the wording: just one death related to the nuclear disaster there – and just one meltdown.

    Whatta crock….

    Oh well, that's Rothschild-owned fake news for ya.

  • Jebus Jebus

    A Brief Review—EPR Dosimetry and the Use of Animal Teeth as Dosimeters

    The technique of electron paramagnetic resonance dosimetry using tooth enamel was established in the late 1960s, and considerable research has been conducted to learn more about the benefits of using human teeth as dosimeters for the purpose of retrospective dose reconstruction. Comparatively few studies have been done which have investigated animal teeth for the same purpose. The potential exists for utilizing animal teeth as dosimeters to reconstruct doses received by a species, as well as by humans. Animals investigated in electron paramagnetic resonance studies included cows, rats, mice, dogs, pigs, rhesus monkeys, goats, reindeer, walruses, bison, polar foxes, moose, and polar bears. Much has been determined regarding the characteristics of animal teeth, and overall the use of animal teeth for electron paramagnetic resonance dosimetry appears to be a viable means of estimating external dose. Although much has been learned from animal studies, there remain unanswered questions related to electron paramagnetic resonance dosimetry and the use of animal teeth as electron paramagnetic resonance dosimeters. This article summarizes the findings of animal electron paramagnetic resonance studies and outlines what is still unknown.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Experts say Trump’s EPA moving to loosen radiation limits

    The EPA is pursuing rule changes that experts say would weaken the way radiation exposure is regulated, turning to scientific outliers who argue that a bit of radiation damage is actually good for you — like a little bit of sunlight.

    The government’s current, decades-old guidance says that any exposure to harmful radiation is a cancer risk. And critics say the proposed change could lead to higher levels of exposure for workers at nuclear installations and oil and gas drilling sites, medical workers doing X-rays and CT scans, people living next to Superfund sites and any members of the public who one day might find themselves exposed to a radiation release.

    • slandermen slandermen

      Hey, what's the problem, considering the alterations under the obama administration allowing for many orders of magnitude (depending) more radiation.

      He's just continuing that legacy, shit, comparatively, those changes aren't very assertive, they're nowhere near as huge as I'd expect. It's a sign of weakness. Shellenberger for president!

  • Jebus Jebus

    Turning to scientific outliers, EPA says a little radiation may be healthy

    The Trump administration is quietly moving to weaken U.S. radiation regulations, turning to scientific outliers who argue that a bit of radiation damage is actually good for you — like a little bit of sunlight.

    Trump administration working to weaken EPA radiation regulations

    As recently as this March, the EPA's online guidelines for radiation effects advised: "Current science suggests there is some cancer risk from any exposure to radiation."

  • slandermen slandermen

    Apparently, there's some sort of consistent level of additional radiation (naturally, attributed to cosmic radiation), about 60-70x the level experienced at sea level, with 60-90 minute flights from chicago…

    I wonder what could have caused that? Surely, it's just the sun that as a particular focus on burning the fucking mob.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Radioactivity harms us and no dose is “safe”

    A “small” dose can do immense damage; our new handbook explains how and why

    Radioactive releases occur all along the uranium fuel chain, beginning with uranium mining and culminating in radioactive waste “management.”

    All of these releases — whether large or small (because there is no “safe” dose) — impact human health with varying degrees of severity. And yet most of the time, these impacts are poorly understood, hushed up, or even dismissed. When discoveries are made — such as increased rates of leukemia in populations living near nuclear power or reprocessing plants — there is an immediate effort by industry, often supported by governments, to undermine, challenge or negate such findings.

    The fact remains, however, that both the immediate and long-term damage done to human health — which can last for generations — is the single, most compelling reason not to continue with the use of nuclear power and the extractive, polluting industries that must support it.

    Radiation and Harm to Human Health

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      The reason it sounds like the authors are having a difficult time explaining the danger of low dose radiation, and giving any quantification to it, is probably due to the fact that they dont know.

      But theres no shame it that. The fact is that most mainstream scientists dont know, and in fact get it wrong.

      For my taste, they should have cited Bandzhevsky and a few others to help quantify it.

      People really struggle with the banana dose equivalent. None of their answers help. The scientists would shoot down the argument with dose.

      And heres where non linear effects come in. If they could come to grips with the idea that natural background radiation has been a part of biology since the beginning, and as such may be an integral part of biological function, then they could really start to blame manmade radiation with its huge specific radioactivity and whatever else.

      People cant make that leap. But the problem never goes away; if ALL radiation dose is bad then a tiny bit, a fraction of background can only do a tiny bit; a fraction of the damage of background. Thats where pro and anti nukers stand right now

  • slandermen slandermen

    "Radioactivity harms us and no dose is “safe”"

    CS and Chris Busby would like to have a word with you about that.

    • slandermen slandermen

      Wait, maybe not CS so much, but the Busby graph clearly indicates in a fairly general sense that more radiation (roughly equivalent to background levels) is bad for you but more radiation (unspecified) is good (relatively), but also that no radiation is best.

      This is good shit.

  • unincredulous unincredulous

    In an effort to raise awareness of nuclear contamination, I'm going to bag up 30 million tons of local dirt this coming week. 15 million in red bags and 15 million in blue bags. A big white bulldozer with strobes.

    Think anyone will notice?

  • Jebus Jebus

    Marco Kaltofen, a nuclear forensics expert and a professor at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, said he collected samples from communities outside three lab sites across the nation and found a wide variation of particle sizes. He said they could deliver lifelong doses that exceed allowable federal standards if inhaled.

    "If you inhale two particles, you will exceed your lifetime dose under occupational standards, and there is a low probability of detecting it," he said.

    The second study by Kaltofen, completed in August, reported that fairly high radioactivity levels were found in 30 samples from the communities around the Hanford nuclear site, near Richland, Wash. The samples found contamination on personal vehicles driven inside the Hanford site that would leave mechanics exposed if they worked around the vehicles, the report said.

    Kaltofen also reviewed an internal study in March by an Energy Department contractor, Washington River Protection Solutions, that found a calculated potential dose of 95 millirem for workers, roughly 10 times higher than the federal Environmental Protection Agency standard.

  • Jebus Jebus

    I have so many questions.

    NOAA Fukushima Response

    Just jumped up in a saved search term. It's new.

  • Jebus Jebus

    Nobel Peace Laureate: Amid Talks with North Korea, It’s Time for U.S. to Abandon Nukes, Too

  • Jebus Jebus

    A First: Medical Data Obtained from Minami-soma Municipal General Hospital in Fukushima

    "At this time, Mr. Kōichi Oyama, a member of the Minami- Soma City Council, obtained data from the Minami-soma municipal general hospital.
    “The shocking data came out: when year 2010 and year 2017 year were compared, there were 29 times more of adult thyroid cancer, 10.8 times more of leukemia, 4.2 times more of lung cancer, 4 times more of pediatric cancer, 3.98 times more of pneumonia, 3.97 times of myocardial infarction, 3.92 times more of liver cancer, 2.99 times more of large intestine cancer, 2.27 times more of stomach cancer, and 3.52 times more of heart stroke."

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      wow, a significant post there Jebus. Statistics dont convey the suffering, but here at ENEnews we usually use percentage because it sounds bigger.

      2,900% increase in thyroid cancer. 397% increase in heart attack

      It wasnt immediate, Ill give them that

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        The numbers must be seen and evaluated laterally as the previous numbers included previous radiation contamination I am thinking this is continued bioaccumulation.. with spike impacts seen per event.

        Many graphs show similar spikes after Chernobyl and the overall rate of cancers per 100K continued to tick upwards in Russia as they then did worldwide. 1945 was the Radiation Contamination Bioaccumulation start date for the entire world.

        When a seasoned educated medical professional tells me that "cancer rates" are higher now because of population increases..I have to scratch my head very hard..often it bleeds. The statement is false..and is an uneducated response.

        If the rate of cancer was 30 per 100K say in 1940.. and it is now 350 per 100K. The population numbers do not affect the "rate numbers" per 100K.

        30 per 100K should have remained the same per 100K since 1940..if Nuclear bioaccumulation was not to blame.

        Tick, Tock, Up!

  • Jebus Jebus

    How Long Does it Take to Recover from a Nuclear Accident?

    "What happens in the aftermath of a nuclear disaster? To learn, we can look at history, specifically the example of the Chernobyl disaster."

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Things are going well out there for Japan and especially since 1945. What happened in 1945?

    Cancer Remains Leading Cause of Death in Japan

    All I could find was this..could this be the cause?

    Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – 1945

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    The debate is very simply!

    Son come over here! Yes Sir!
    Son are you a Christian? Yes Sir I am!
    Son do you believe in Jesus and his love? Yes Sir I do!
    Son do you believe he walks with you at all times? Jesus that is? Yes sir I do!
    Son are you OK with the U.S. Nuclear bombings in Japan? Yes sir I am!
    Son do you know that over 400,000 lives of children, mothers, sisters and non combatants died horrible deaths from those bombings? Yes Sir I do!
    Son do you know millions more died from the fallout of cancer too? Son doesn't your sister and mother have cancer?
    Yes Sir she does! She is going to die a horrible death. Sir! My sister is already gone!
    So you believe God is Jesus and he is with you right now, but you are OK with those bombings and all the cancer everywhere now?
    Yes Sir I am! Son? Yes Sir?

    Son I am sorry.. you are bat-shit crazy! Thank you Sir! Praise Jesus!

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