FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) — New as of January 2017

Published: January 2nd, 2016 at 1:10 am ET
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Thread Guidelines: This off-topic discussion thread is posted to be used as a place for discussion of topics not related to Fukushima and/or nuclear issues.

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Published: January 2nd, 2016 at 1:10 am ET
By

44,896 comments

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44,896 comments to FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) — New as of January 2017

  • razzz razzz

    'West Coast & the Insane Socialistic Hunt for Taxes'

    "…When I was restructuring companies and helping those who wanted to establish a base inside the EU for the coming Euro, those firms who needed skilled labor in manufacturing I placed in Britain. If they needed the best tax deal and were not concerned about a manufacturing base, I placed them in Ireland. That is how I came to know Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. She wanted to meet the guy who was sending all these companies into Britain.

    There was no a single company I placed in France because the unions were crazy. On a strike, the actually kidnapped the CEO and his family until they got their demands. The German taxation was nuts. The taxes a company had to “contribute” to Employees benefits was 40% more than Britain.

    So you see, I was paid to do the best deal for my clients. That was my job. Today, I would NOT place any company in California, Oregon, or Washington. My recommendation is to get out before they impose an EXIT TAX like New Jersey."
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/west-coast-the-insane-socialistic-hunt-for-taxes/

  • razzz razzz

    'Capital Flows Not Central Banks Are Holding Up US Economy'

    "…There is job creation taking place, however, the index has been manipulated as has just about everything else. The economic growth is half that of a decade ago and from that perspective, we are in a declining mode overall into 2020. That said, the US economy is holding up the world right now, not the central banks. The ECB is keeping not the European economy up, but it has been keeping the governments on life-support.

    The Fed has been fighting to even reach its 2% goal for inflation. The problem with deflation is that people will NOT spend wildly when their homes are still below what they paid or at break-even throughout most of the country. The money centers have risen for the high-end because of the foreign money pouring in. The IRS demanded that the real owner of real estate be revealed by the Title Company at closing but this has been limited to New York City and Miami.

    The USA is holding up the world BECAUSE the capital flight has been to the USA both from China and from Europe. The central banks are in serious trouble outside the USA. The ECB can actually go bankrupt. Don’t forget, the EU does not issue its own debt. It depends on revenue from the member states. They have already demanded more money from everyone to make up the shortfall from BREXIT."
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/capital-flow/capital-flows-not-central-banks-are-holding-up-us-economy/

  • Jebus Jebus

    How come no nuclear aircraft carrier, (battle group), sailed in like hero's to help with puerto rican relief efforts and provide offshore power?

  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

    hot girls! Steamy nights! Its a great idea, a fabulous idea, government needs a holiday in Hawaii

  • Jebus Jebus

    Wrap it up guys. The radiation that never was is gone now.

    Fukushima tells world radiation is down, exports up after nuclear crisis

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/31/national/fukushima-tells-world-radiation-exports-nuclear-crisis/#.Ww_mBVPt7OQ

    What was the fallout from Fukushima?

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/03/was-fallout-from-fukushima-exaggerated

    Smile, apparently the antichrist has taken over too…

  • Jebus Jebus

    ‘I owe my being to the hills and the valleys, the mountains and the glades, the rivers, the deserts, the trees, the flowers, the seas and the ever-changing seasons that define the face of our native land.” – Former president Thabo Mbeki, 1996.

    Africans care about the environment too

    https://www.news24.com/Columnists/GuestColumn/africans-care-about-the-environment-too-20180601

  • DUDe DUDe

    Difficult to choose a quote..its almost all equally well written..( the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" forgery claim is new to me)

    Under Trump, the Israel lobby is a Hydra with many heads
    #IsraelLobby

    Since Trump took office, the Israel lobby has mobilised four other powerful lobbies: Christian evangelicals, the alt-right, the military-industrial complex and Saudi Arabia

    Under Trump, the lobby has shown it can wield unprecedented influence – even by its usual standards – in flagrant disregard for all apparent US interests.

    http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/under-trump-israel-lobby-has-grown-many-headed-hydra-1970608671

  • Fake Food from Jeff Bezos…..

    Would you trust "news" from this guy, Bezos

    https://vimeo.com/272776490

  • The evil UK deep state, run by child-raping pedophiles and crooks, has thrown citizen journalist Tommy Robinson in prison for daring to report on Muslim pedophilia.

    https://vimeo.com/272765374

      • Looking at one source, esp. a biased source no longer cuts it.

        Lots of opinions on this one.
        ———————————————-
        Classic "progressive" reporting. He was attempting “to video Muslims” outside a court? The Independent doesn't mention that those Muslims have r@ped hundreds of white working class children while the progressive establishment knowingly looked the other way. Tommy Robinson was reporting on the crimes that the mainstream media have been deliberately covering up for years. He was exposing the sick hypocrisy of the mainstream liberals who permitted racially motivated mass child rape in the name of multiculturalism. That's why he's in prison now.

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          You sure this is a lib vs conservative issue?

          "He was exposing the sick hypocrisy of the mainstream liberals who permitted racially motivated mass child rape in the name of multiculturalism."

          David Cameronwas Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 2010 to 2016 and Leader of the Conservative Party from 2005 to 2016. This is the period of increased acceptance of immigrants.

          Theresa May the current prime minister is also of the conservative party

          To get at the root of it, you have to track down who is allowing what in the media. "The Jews have an almost total grip on the media in Britain, systematically, constantly and intensely feeding their propaganda and example to almost everyone in Britain" http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/shadow/jewishmedia_uk.shtml

          The Jewish controlling camp is not stupid enough to care about liberal vs conservative. They will use this theme to their advantage if possible, but it is assuredly not a driving force of their motivation.

          Thus I consider your attempts to label bad goings on as liberal and good goings on as conservative flawed and erroneous metric which likely stems from your conservative allegiance. Not that there arent differences. What would a total summation and comparison of the two camps yield? Unfortunately, the two camps have two different cannons of good and bad, thus forever perpetuating the argument. For my taste, the huge contingent of fundamentalist christians does not speak well for objectivity

  • DUDe DUDe

    Hmmm..lifestyle..a third in a decade..sure..not the inaccountable existence of major polluters and destroyers and warprofiteers and stuff..and their "blessings" upon the world..cummulating in our bloodstream..
    —-

    Global cancer cases rise by a third in a decade as life expectancy and unhealthy habits increase, finds major study

    'Lifestyle cancers' linked to smoking, bad diet and sun exposure rising particularly fast in developing countries

    The number of cancer cases diagnosed around the world each year has risen by almost a third in the past decade as increasing life expectancy means millions of more people will be diagnosed in their lifetime.

    Researchers said there was also cause for concern in the rise in skin, lung and colorectal cancers, which could largely be prevented by addressing lifestyle habits like smoking and diet.

    The Global Burden of Disease Cancer Collaboration audits diagnosis rates and deaths of 29 types of cancer around the world each year.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/cancer-diagnosis-deaths-preventable-smoking-obesity-suncream-breast-prostate-lung-lifestyle-a8380776.html

  • DUDe DUDe

    UK surgeries to remove “man boobs” up 400% as gender bender chemicals grow breasts on biological men

    The number of British men opting for breast reduction procedures due to enlarged or swollen breast, otherwise known as gynecomastia, has increased fourfold over the past five years, according to Dr. Navid Jallali, a leading consultant cosmetic and reconstructive surgeon. The doctor noted that while more men are seeking medical attention for their condition, a higher number of patients have been ridiculed and treated unfairly because of their enlarged breasts.

    According to Dr. Jallali, up to 50 percent of all men may be suffering from the condition.

    http://www.atrazine.news/2017-05-14-uk-surgeries-to-remove-man-boobs-up-400-as-gender-bender-chemicals-grow-breasts-on-biological-men.html

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    There is no job growth..that is a lie.

    300,000 retire each month, reported gain 200,000 jobs..net loss in jobs = 100,000.

    We did not think the Wizards would tell us the truth..did we?

    Understand our enslavement for the man and why for the final demise of Mother Earth that is fast approaching.

    The rigged game board is always evaluated on a regular basis.

    This could be any African ship manifest and projections for some/any working slaves.. chuckles!

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK148824/

    Who says we need any of the material shit we have created? Who?

    Each piece of material shit created.. adds to the now expanding cess pool..we call Mother Earth.

  • DUDe DUDe

    Trump’s Lawyers, in Confidential Memo, Argue to Head Off a Historic Subpoena

    WASHINGTON — President Trump’s lawyers have for months quietly waged a campaign to keep the special counsel from trying to force him to answer questions in the investigation into whether he obstructed justice, asserting that he cannot be compelled to testify and arguing in a confidential letter that he could not possibly have committed obstruction because he has unfettered authority over all federal investigations.

    In a brash assertion of presidential power, the 20-page letter — sent to the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and obtained by The New York Times — contends that the president cannot illegally obstruct any aspect of the investigation into Russia’s election meddling because the Constitution empowers him to, “if he wished, terminate the inquiry, or even exercise his power to pardon.”

    [Read the Trump lawyers’ confidential memo to Mr. Mueller here.]

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/02/us/politics/trump-lawyers-memo-mueller-subpoena.html

    • Yep, dictator's are above the law of the land because they are the law, right? So we don't have a president, we have a dictator, right?

      Somehow their logic escapes me. Could it be that it isn't logic?

      • DUDe DUDe

        "Somehow their logic escapes me. Could it be that it isn't logic?"

        Yes that could be , but then again..if they say it is when it is not..then it is..or something..resulting from decades of passivity when politics mutated exponentially faster in a factory of proffessional monsters..

        Here on Earth..noone here's you scream..if your not in the "club".

  • Volcano and Earthquake — "Sticking Points" Mean The Big One Could Be Coming

    http://www.nukepro.net/2018/06/volcano-and-earthquake-sticking-points.html

    I haven't done it in a while, but you can download USGS Earthquake data in a CSV file (which is easily turned into an excel file), customized by area, time, and EQ minimum size.

    The time data is hard to use, you need to parse the data field several times.

    Then to get EQ per day, I use a Pivot Table to extract data. Awesome tool!

    What is happening now in Hawaii is far far different than anything in the last 10 years. I should go back and review the 1955 and 1960 Mega Eruptions. 1840 would be awesome too, but the USGS was still fighting Indians at the time.

  • What is happening in Hawaii is unprecedented at least per modern science.

    Important original work

    Volcano and Earthquake — "Sticking Points" Mean The Big One Could Be Coming

    http://www.nukepro.net/2018/06/volcano-and-earthquake-sticking-points.html

    http://www.nukepro.net/2018/06/hawaii-destable-of-171-large-eq-in-100.html

  • 'PSYCHOPATH’S trade war’ – Top economist FURIOUS at Donald Trump ‘ILLEGAL’ economic moves

    AN INTERNATIONALLY recognised US economist has strongly condemned US President Donald Trump for his economic policies abroad, branding them as “blatantly illegal” and the start of a “psychopath’s trade war”.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/968948/Donald-Trump-news-steel-aluminium-tariffs-leaves-US-economist-Jeffrey-Sachs-furious

      • Trump to Impose Tariffs

        “…The big problem is that Trump FAILS to understand how the economy truly functions. Imposing tariffs on foreign imports because they can produce something more efficiently is NOT protecting American jobs – its is imposing higher costs on the American public. If America cannot compete against foreign steel and aluminum, the answer is not tariffs, but TAX REFORM and UNION REFORM. If unions fail to understand that demanding higher wages in an uncompetitive manner will only lead to the loss of jobs, then end result cannot be prevented by tariffs….

        “Imposing tariffs is simply subsidizing overpaid jobs and higher taxes….”
        https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/armstrongeconomics101/economics/trump-to-impose-tariffs/

        • Trump’s Manchurian Trade Policy

          By Paul Krugman
          May 28, 2018

          “…Senator Joe McCarthy — that is, he posed as a superpatriot even while planning to betray America….

          “On one side, the “Make America Great Again” president is pursuing protectionist policies, supposedly in the name of national security, that will alienate many of our democratic allies. On the other side, he seems weirdly determined to prevent action against genuine national security threats posed by foreign dictatorships — in this case China. What’s going on…”

          “What’s behind his bizarre determination to help an obvious bad actor? Is it about personal gain? China approved a huge loan to a Trump-related project in Indonesia just before rushing to ZTE’s defense; at the same time, China granted valuable trademarks to Ivanka Trump. And don’t say that it’s ridiculous to suggest that Trump can be bribed; everything we know about him says that yes, he can.

          "And if we do have a president who’s bribable, that’s going to give dictators a leg up over democracies, which can’t do that sort of thing because they operate under the rule of law.…”
          https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/28/opinion/trump-china-trade-policy.html

  • Ya know for all the whining (double waa with a waa on top) like a kid that dropped a ice cream cone…

    I still haven't even heard of a single Presidential candidate?

    What's the matter with you people? Something for sure…

    So YOU have the power, but just don't have the ability?

    You don't like it?

    Change it…

    That'll never do. Just too much for ya huh? And WAYYY too much brain mush trouble.

    May even have to get off the couch to do that simple thing…

    You don't really want to do that huh…

    Better to whine and cry like a child (that just dropped the ice cream cone) for four years instead huh…

    and then blame it on somebody else…

    Who's fault is it?

    Yours.

    Sheeple are what they are…

    Really? Yepper…

    So now what?

    More whining instead of action I'd expect……

  • razzz razzz

    'Making Sense of The Federal Reserve'
    "…As two factors combined, the rise in the dollar and the rise in taxation under the Clintons/Obama, the growth rate has been progressively declining.

    Trump sees the trend. His tariff policy is correct insofar as he is trying to address the decline in those areas. However, tariffs are one-sided. He looks at the loss of jobs yet ignores the rise in the standard of living by allowing the consumer to get the best price. If the workers in those areas cannot compete, then lower the taxes for the workers in those industries to enable competition. DO NOT force consumers to pay more for something to subsidize expensive labor. Nobody ever looks at that solution.

    The Fed is clearly using code words like “normalize” interest rates BECAUSE they see the crisis brewing in pensions. They are BY NO MEANS raising interest rates because of inflation or expansion in the economy that risks a bubble. The Fed understands the crisis that has resulted from the manipulated low-interest rate policies. They cannot come out and explain the reason rates are rising because we have a pension crisis. So they have used the term “transitory” to explain both ups and downs and “normalize” to warn the marketplace it will continue to raise interest rates and pretend it is about some “transitory” factor you cannot nail down to a hardline explanation."
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/central-banks/making-sense-of-the-federal-reserve/

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      More poopie? Yes, more poopie!

      The entire healthcare cost scam is exactly this behavior!

      Capitalism breeds on this type behavior..Barr making 60 million per year to flap her lips..that is some sick subsidized poopie! Sick!

      "DO NOT force consumers to pay more for something to subsidize expensive labor. Nobody ever looks at that solution."

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      so Armstrong cant make sense of the Federal Reserve. Doesnt surprise me

  • razzz razzz

    'Manly-Man Skills: Don't Use Ethanol Blended Gasoline.'
    https://youtu.be/AnETtiRdTjU

    • PlowboyGrownUp

      A ripoff, paying for ethanol at the gasoline price and getting less mpg so having to buy more to go the distance of straight gasoline.

    • Deadboy

      Apparently you can make better blends with eucalyptol. Dunno how feasible that is.

      • danger kitty danger kitty

        You could also run your car off the volatile oils contained in some of the plant species of southern Cali chaparal. Phyto napalm.

        Removing & renewing chaparal is better for wildlife, absorbs more carbon, etc.
        Senescenct chaparal does no one any good. It does not grow or provide browse. Obstacle to wildlife. Slowly dies, becoming a larger h larger resiovoir of fire fuel.
        For 12,000 years here chaparal was masterfully managed by fire.

  • razzz razzz

    'The Impossible done on a milling machine'
    https://youtu.be/SzgPOJPTo_A

  • Horse Horse

    Alt news under attack.

    'EU now playing with open cards: The EU is About to Destroy The Internet'
    "The EU parliament will vote on Article 13 in less than a month. Article 13 will get rid of “fair use”, will make platform operators reliable for coypright infringements of its users (the only way to not be held accountable is implementing farreaching censorship filters) and it even will introduce LICENSING FEES just for linking to other websites."
    http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/eu-now-playing-with-open-cards-the-eu-is-about-to-destroy-the-internet/

  • 'Very, Very Disturbing': Trump Asserts 'Absolute Right' to Pardon Himself

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/very-very-disturbing-trump-asserts-absolute-right-pardon-himself

    Watch: Facility Staff Call Police as Senator Attempts to Examine Conditions of Immigrant Detention Center

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/watch-facility-staff-call-police-senator-attempts-examine-conditions-immigrant

    All the Kings horses and all the Kings men couldn't ………

  • You can't tell me the economic policies under Trump are great. My federal taxes have risen under Trump. I won't get a cost of living increase in my pension this year and next year, and after that time the increase will go down from 2% to 1.5%. Before Bush, the increase used to be 3 or 3.5%. Bush's economic disaster creamed that down to 2%. Now Trump's disaster policies have reduced that to 0% for 2 years and then decreased it (hopefully) to only 1.5%.

    8.5% of Americans saw an increase in federal taxes under Trump's so-called ta reform.

    I read on a blog that one person's tax decrease was cancelled out by an increase in his state's increases in income taxes.

    • So 91.5% for a tax benefit then….the obvious conclusion, right???

      You pretend that your small COLA is due to something Trump did? Seriously

      ye gots Trumpophobia, even Chemo can't fix that

  • Anyone even daring to praise capitalism or bourgeois values (as law professor Amy Wax recently did at the University of Pennsylvania) gets denounced as a racist and white supremacist. In fact, the charge of racism is just the latest tool of the radical left to advance its agenda, and it does wonders for silencing opponents and intimidating everyone else – especially college presidents and deans.

    Now it’s time to starting to push back in the new Cold War, and to win back our schools and universities, along with our children’s hearts and minds.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/05/15/is-teen-vogue-turning-karl-marx-into-its-next-teen-idol.html

    America won the Cold War and defeated the contagion of communism overseas. But now the contagion has spread and taken root here. The ghosts of the 65 million victims of communism are calling out to us to do something, before it is too late.

    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

      This is capitalism…looks like a complete failure to me. No other way to explain it.

      Population gets nothing for all this created debt..zip, zero, nada.

      Other countries do..very strange.

      U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
      http://www.usdebtclock.org/

      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        Everything that moves with in the system is a scam..60 million to Barr per year..scam.

        This system will destroy Mother Earth..it really is.. only a matter of time now.

        Capitalists only exploit the resources of this tiny planet along with the biological life found on Mother Earth.

        Why the 6th Great Extinction is speeding up now and not slowing down.

        A Christian Capitalist does not give a shit..is the bottom line.

      • You dont even understand what capitalism is.

        You thought you took the red pill, but in the low light of MSM it was the purple!

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          Is your planet healthier or sicker?

          Who are you going to blame.. if not the systems in place.

          If you are a Christian I would expect you not to understand such things..made that pretty clear.

          • but you dont even understand capitalism, you can't just blame every system that is in place. That is knee jerk reactionism.

            Dude, you took the purple pill, and thought you were enlightened.

            "Christian shaming" how about we get a Muslim to run against Pelosi?

            • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

              You my friend need to down 5 more red pills..since you are not about to take any responsibility for anything that is going on out here in the real world.

              Who said anything about Muslims? All religion is simply bat-shit crazy.

              Bat-shit crazy religions are simply another tool found in the various slave master's control tool boxes.

              I am afraid you will never see it for what it really is or what it truly represents…sad really.

              • And what would you replace it with Obe, i never got an answer on that yet?

                I see 97% clearly.

                Joseph M Whitelow II
                🇺🇸
                ‏ @TrueJosephWII
                Jun 3

                “The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation.”
                —MAYOR (1918–1925) JOHN F. HYLAN OF NEW YORK.

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  I see 97% clearly.

                  no you dont

                  • Fuck you, I hope that is 97% understandable

                    People who see clearly are really irritated by those with no vision, no plan, who think that because they "discard everything" that they therefore see clearly. But you haven't called me Hitler yet, so the argument is not quite over.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      stock, you say you see 97% clearly and tell me "fuck you" etc. But if you look at it, if you had looked at the Chomsky videos and read the history of capitalism as I had linked to, then you would see you dont in fact understand 97%. I read and watched and I dont understand 97%

                      You didnt know about the Federal reserve, you didnt know about the huge usury bill, you didnt know real estate profit is mathematically impossible to continue, you didnt know about Venezuela and the coup attempt by the U.S. the multi country orchestration to bring it down. You didnt know about the birth of modern capitalism in 1608 and that rape and pillage story. You didnt know about the world trade center. You apparently dont suspect Giuliani and Trump even though I pointed out that stuff in his book where Trump says kill Bin Laden preemptively. You didnt know the cold war was a manipulation of the military industrial complex and more. You didnt watch the videos or read the stuff.

                      That means the people that did now know more than you do and it makes your protestations look not so good. So consider that the next time you say "fuck you"….just sayin'

                    • LOL you gots Trumps Derangement Syndrome.

                      Fuck you, most of your points above are either wrong or irrelevant.

                      Do you know where "stock" comes from? A decade of technical trading, so of course I understand the Fed Reserve.

                      Still haven't seen any facts about your 38% usury meme, but I am firmly based in udnerstanding that there are like 2000 people who actually work in Hawaii, doing something productive, supporting the rest. LOL

                      Dutch shit in 1608 MEANS absolutely fucking nothing in relation to "capitalism" today as the only system that has a chance of working, AND ITS THE FUCKING CORRUPTION that is the problem.

                      at this point you are just making shit up about me, fake news code, fake news.

                      TDS is not total dissolved solids.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      "Fuck you, most of your points above are either wrong or irrelevant."

                      sorry stock, if you were arguing against me, you would have a chance, but in fact all the stuff I came up with is from far greater minds. It is commonly understood that the Dutch East India Co was the birth of modern capitalism. Thus your argument that it means nothing is simply and entirely unfounded. The structure of the business, the government/military collusion, the attitudes, the resulting pillage of defenseless countries, the stocks…its all there, and all playing out just like it did. So you lose that one, better luck next time

                      I know stock comes from your stock market work. But didnt you say you werent aware of the nefarious action of the FED till recently? You even posted the video with Corbett. Youre now saying you knew all along. Dont they call this disingenuous?

                      I say thats strike two

                      38% usury? How many times do I need to give you the link bro? 5 times, 10 times?

                      Did I make up fake news about you? I dont recall it. Im going to follow up with stuff about usury, and that will be strike three

                      or if you prefer, saying 'fuck you' several times when its uncalled for is strike three. You really should think twice, or count to three or something.

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      To be fair Trump doesn't think twice or count to three.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Usury…so stock questions that 38% of your working life goes toward paying bankers and wall street stock traders.

                      Before I found the study, It was obvious just on home loans, usually your biggest expense;

                      The national average for a home loan is $222,261 with a $1,061 average monthly payment for a 30-year mortgage at 4 percent.
                      That means $159,738 = Total Interest Paid on Loan

                      So no study is needed for proof of the usury problem.

                      Capitalist forces drive the problem deeper; The average home owner in Hawaii would have a monthly payment of about $3,234 for a 30-year mortgage, before taxes and insurance.

                      Only rich stock traders and bankers are going to be able to afford homes in Hawaii, California and eventually everywhere. Its obvious, its mathematical, its simple, its uncontested

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      Does twitter think twice?

                    • Deadboy

                      "LOL you gots Trumps Derangement Syndrome."

                      stock, you're opening statements with lol. Just saying. Then, you move on to absolute ignorance and appeal to correctness in the second sentence.

                      "Fuck you, most of your points above are either wrong or irrelevant."

                      Ironically, meaningless without some sort of explanation or argument, which of course you basically never have.

                      The other thing is, trying to make stupid shit that you say seem funny and authoritative by typing lol and saying "i'm right you're wrong" doesn't actually make it funny or correct.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Usury…I had a feel for the hidden usury and capitalist skimming, and its much worse than the mere interest on your loan

                      The incredible facts are these:

                      1. In construction a whopping 75% of prices are related to costs for capital. Meaning that if we buy a new $100,000 home, $75,000 is lost to banks and other financiers.

                      2. When we buy the house with a mortgage, we will not only pay $100,000 for the house, but an additional $150,000 in interest over 30 years.

                      3. So we pay a total of $250,000 for a house that actually costs no more than $25,000 to build.

                      That means, all else being equal, you work to build 10 houses and only end up with one house. This is not hyperbole, not hypothetical, not fake news. This is capitalism. The only reason its been working out is the increase in efficient manufacturing and ongoing exploitation

                      go ahead stock, read about it, others will

                      https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/usury-why-we-dont-build-cathedrals-these-days/

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Usury..so all the people that didnt think about it or didnt have time to think about it now know what stock and razzz dont know, even though they claim THEY know and everybody else is a moron. This of course makes them look like morons, so if they care about reputation or anything they better wise up

                      'So, you lose 40% (!!!!) of your disposable income to interest through prices.

                      Interest is being payed by people borrowing money and received by people having loads of it. So it is per definition a wealth transfer from poor to rich.

                      It transpires, that about 80% of the poorest people pay more interest than they receive to the richest 10%.'

                      this is a capitalist success story;

                      "In Germany the poorest 80% pay 1 billion Euros in interest to the richest 10% PER DAY. Yes, that’s right, one billion euros per day. That is a grand total of 365 billion euro’s per year. That is one seventh of German GDP and extrapolating this to America, the poorest 80% must be paying at least a trillion a year.

                      https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/on-interest/

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Can I use the fuck you meme? Well fuck the capitalist and his apologies, denials, lies and the millions of minions that support him.

                      you people out there, you spend 3/4 of your working life supporting those rich capitalists who gain their entire wealth from YOU. Read and weep for your lost years, your wifes lost years, your childrens

                      https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/budget-of-an-interest-slave-2/

                      "Worse still: approximately half our own disposable income is lost to interest, on top of the taxes we pay. Combined interest + tax takes 75% of our gross income."

                      "It has been established that 45% of prices we pay are for interest on business loans or other capital costs. No less than 50% of taxes we pay go to servicing the National Debt and capital costs included in prices the Government pays"

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      capitalism and usury. Here its well laid out. Why capitalist usury is an unsustainable wrecking ball. And an obvious solution

                      Margrit Kennedy
                      http://www.converge.org.nz/evcnz/resources/money.pdf

                      stock and razzz, Ive been over this in many different ways. You cant call me a blind purveyor of fake and preposterous idiocies if you dont read up. Thing is,,,other people WILL, and you will be left in the dust with your pants down

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              "but you dont even understand capitalism"

              stock, its clear you dont understand capitalism. Code and others had to educate you, and still you retreat into your comfort zone.

              But Im open minded….take real estate for example…what should I know about real estate that makes it an ethical, sustainable source of income? How long will it take for one house to be worth as many dollars as there are grains of sand on earth?

              • Third person speaking now? thats weird.

              • I get it now, you hate real estate because trump made money in real estate, and you hate Trump.

                hatred blinds.

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  blindness blinds more than hatred. Or should I say patriotism? Or indoctrination?

                  Theres a reason people hate hypocrisy, lying and theft. Its not for nothing people dont like it.

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    making Murka great again; Trump said he would stick to his trade policy for long enough until no Mercedes-Benz models were rolling down New York’s Fifth Avenue.
                    https://www.rt.com/business/428327-trump-german-carmakers-ban/

                    Thats great isnt it stock? How great, on a level of 1 to 10? let me guess,,,10!

                    before you think it through, you might like to know some facts;

                    BMW X-SERIES – MADE IN USA
                    MERCEDES-BENZ R-CLASS – MADE IN ALABAMA
                    VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT – MADE IN USA
                    HONDA ACCORD – MADE IN OHIO
                    TOYOTA AVALON – MADE IN KENTUCKY
                    TOYOTA TUNDRA – MADE IN INDIANA/TEXAS
                    NISSAN TITAN – MADE IN THE USA
                    HONDA PILOT – MADE IN ALABAMA
                    VOLKSWAGEN ATLAS – MADE IN TENNESSEE

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Support U.S. auto! Give them tax breaks and put tariffs on foreign auto plants.

                      See the hypocrisy or deceit? for example

                      Cadillac SRX CADILLAC XTS made in Mexico

                      Ford Escape and Ford Fiesta
                      are built in China, South Africa, Brazil, Mexico, and India.

                      FORD EDGE > Canada

                      GM Spark > South Korea

                      Ford Transit Connect > Europe.

                      Chevy Impala > Oshawa, Ontario,

                      CHEVROLET EQUINOX > Canada

                      Dodge Challenger > Ontario, Canada.

                      Dodge Charger > Canada

                      Chrysler 300 > Canada

                      Chevy Captiva > Korea

                      CHEVROLET TRAX > Mexico

                      Dodge Journey > Mexico

                      Lincoln MKZ > Mexico

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      Well we are going to need to ship all that homemade steel and aluminum somewhere.

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                hey stock…you prefer I say "I" had to educate you and razzz rather than Code? In fact Im just the go between, the messenger. You guys never read the stuff I pointed you to, and this I suppose explains why you stick with your strange ideas.

                What a total fabrication that I hate real estate because Trump is a real estate mogul. Why not tell me how many years before a house is worth more than all the money on the planet? I already did the numbers for you and yet it makes zero (or in Hippie Dog speak naught minus naught) impact on your brain. The question is…why?

                I gave that number to another investment guy and he said sarcastically we arent going to live to be 400 years old.

                Theres no mystery, no argument. If there is, lets have it

                This subject is not irrelevant. Its directly related to the capitalist mentality that spawned TEPCO and Monsanto

                • Deadboy

                  I dunno, how about pointing to the inherent greed and entitlement of possession. That's kinda arrogant.

                • Good to see I've started to make a impact….

                  Now seeing the brainy jokes and even some good and entertaining music videos.

                  I'd guess all is not lost after all :-).

                  Keep up the good work…

                  Oh yea and fight the good fight!

                  Fight the Good Fight (Live in HALIFAX):

                  https://youtu.be/2-lGhKrypb0

                  • danger kitty danger kitty

                    Mr. H.Dog, you say—–>

                    "Good to see I've started to make a impact…"

                    You certainly seem to have yourself convinced of that dubious claim. I imagine others are nowhere near as whelmed…

                    It's only natural you would believe your claim, as you state that your only yard stick seems to be…"Now seeing the brainy jokes and even some good and entertaining music videos."

                    A clown classic…

                    • You know as soon as you think some (like the stinkin little kitty) are starting to contribute something positive and say good job, there is always one dumbass that has to try to spoil it.

                      The worst part is? If you look at what this guy has posted 99 out of 100 contributes nothing at all…

                      The 99 insults slung with vaguely strung together accusations pointed at someone else of what this troll himself is actually guilty of doing constantly (to try to make himself look good and/or bolster his foolish ego)…

                      And then occasionally there's the 1 dumbass statement from the stinkin kitty that again removes all doubt.

                      Foolish troll, just when I thought you could actually form a post about something real instead of insulting others for nothing better to say or do.

                      Poor little litterbox rootin, stinkin, useless kitty…

                      What a total troll by very definition.

                      Here's the short version (even you may can understand this one kitty):

                      https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Internet%20Troll

                      And for the normally intelligent:

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

                      Yep that our stinkin little kitty alright huh… Just go back and look at this one's last 100 or so posts to know for sure.

      • razzz razzz

        You unceasingly confuse private debt and government debt. Private companies go broke if their debt load becomes to great and have to answer to their share holders and open markets pressures of competition.

        Governments answer to no one. Funding a war machine or socialist agendas doesn't stop them from acquiring mounting debt.

        I would like to know where the line is between doing business and doing capitalistic business? Only a ignoramus would make that distinction or to put it another way, induce class warfare.

        Governments supporting some big businesses is something difference entirely, more like on the verge of corruption and that doesn't always help because look at GE going broke. Many government contracts and still they can't manage their affairs to stay profitable.

        • earthsmith earthsmith

          So razzz Goldman Sachs wasn't a private company that went broke and got the governments(taxpayer money)? Who's debt was that and whose debt is that now? GM? They weren't broke? Who answered the bell for their shareholders? Whack!

          • In Epic corruption, these brokers became banks overnight so the fed could force feed them our money.

            Hang em high….Iceland as example

          • razzz razzz

            "Who answered the bell for their shareholders? Whack!"

            Didn't I cover that under corruption? You are confusing typical business practices of going bankrupt with government bailouts.

            O'bummer supported the unions with having our government throw money at GM but allowing shareholders to assume all the losses. Congress did nothing but agree to go along with it. By all rights GM should have been allowed to go belly up having other companies assimilate the leftovers thus allowing shareholders to salvage some of their money or maybe acquire shares in other companies feeding on the scraps.

            Same with the banking crisis. Big banks lobby to repeal decades old Glass–Steagall (1933) and thereafter a banking meltdown occurs [where banks were now allowed to invest (bet with) people's deposits, was not allowed before the repeal] and congress again throws money at the problem to leave only about three major banking standing.

            Again they should have allowed bad banks to go belly up but the big banks had corrupted congress into a corner hence the bailouts at taxpayer's expense.

            What is it that you do not understand about poor business decisions and corruption leading to bailouts?

            • Deadboy

              So, all of capitalist society is riddled with corruption, greed and has ties to governments. Being a piece of shit is normal, as a capitalist. Though evidently they are entirely incapable of understanding this. What's the difficult part to figure out?

              Btw, lots of shit you're not mentioning about bankruptcy, Razzz, related to taxes, subsidies, gov bonds, etc.

              Trying to excuse away bankruptcy is ridiculous. It is a mechanism for pieces of shit to do shitty things, typically and it INVARIABLY affects other citizens.

              • Deadboy

                Here's a vague sort of shot in the dark. But if we take bankruptcies, overall, and we consider who benefits most from that..

                Is it:
                A) Government
                B) Banks/Insurers/Financial institutions
                C) Assholes who collude with those
                D) The average citizen

              • There are no perfect societies because there are no perfect people. Human nature isn't perfect and some individuals, for whatever reason, engage in worse actions than others.

                • Deadboy

                  Don't give me that "there are no perfect societies" shit. For that appeal to even have slight relevance it has to approach perfection and typical societies are so fucking far from perfection that I dismiss it out the gate.

                  You say some individuals, but that's bullshit. Societies have clearly made most people not only complicit but eager to participate in that bullshit.

                  • Why Has Utopia Failed?

                    “…The term ‘Utopia’ to describe a perfect world was first coined by Sir Thomas More, in 1518. More wrote a novel depicting a fantastic new society, free from problems. More set this seemingly perfect society on an island, and gave it the name "Utopia." Since then, "Utopia" has become a kind of shorthand for a perfect place.
                    “But did you realize, utopia literally means ‘no
                    place’? The Greek ou means 'no' and topos means 'place.' Even More knew that the place he wrote about was only imaginary. Indeed, there is ‘no place’ on earth where human beings are all living together in real peace, with real harmony, experiencing lives free of worry, stress or pain. Rather, everywhere we look we see problems—poverty, crime, hunger, disease, war and corruption.

                    “Truly, Utopia does not exist on earth. But why not?,,,”
                    https://www.tomorrowsworld.org/magazines/2006/november-december/why-has-utopia-failed

                    You can argue with this article if you wish. [if it quacks like a troll…, lol]

                    • Deadboy

                      This is why I don't respect you anne. You have very little of your own arguments. You deflect, deny, etc. Your friend stock is very similar.

                    • Deadboy

                      Btw, just in case your KJV faith is wavering.

                      Don't worry, argue with this guy. Try it.

                      https://www.historicmysteries.com/apollonius-of-tyana/

                    • Deadboy

                      "He taught that prayers and sacrifice were useless and that God really did not want to converse with men. In this way, they would have been in competition with each other if they preached in the same areas. Some say that they were and that they did."

                      Very true.

                    • Deadboy

                      This also reminds me of a sort of existential, cosmic joke about flat earth. Atlas dropped the ball to tend to a weeping Jesus.

            • earthsmith earthsmith

              Razz thats funny… thanks for the belly laugh!
              "You are confusing typical business practices of going bankrupt with government bailouts."
              The government is a corporation..a pyramid scheme.
              So corporations as citizens are business as usual..ok
              Banks are somehow not business as usual? Sure I get it.
              Let's see lobbyists, congress, senate. Sounds like the board of a corporation but hey what do I know. The only point you have is the love affair with Armstrong.
              So what is business as usual? Hedge funds? Insider trading? Maybe mass media?
              Bailouts? ZTE? Whoops business as usual.
              It's funny how folks always try to pin stuff to different administrations when it is just one big corporate revolving door.
              You didn't explain anything under corruption except what is already quite obvious.
              So please do explain?

        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          Class warfare..that one is precious.

          Whom do you think the capitalistic guberment works for?

          Kid steals a pair of $100 sneakers and is locked up for 5 years. Wells Fargo steals millions and everyone gets a fatty bonus.

          Most Christian Capitalists..are utterly confused on purpose..but then.. they just don't give a shit.

          More concerned with their own fantasy.. than they are with true reality.

          The entire Christian Capitalistic world..every layer.. is simply class warfare.. on steroids.

          • And what would you replace that Christian Capitalist meme with, what exactly?

            Provide 2 examples of working models on a fairly large scale.

            Thanks!

            • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

              Kind of tough to spit such crap out..since such crap is not wanted or promoted and/or even taught..especially if no capitalistic profits are found in such working models.

              A Forgotten Society Without Weapons or War Discovered
              http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/09/a-forgotten-society-without-weapons-or-war-discovered/

              Monetary profit drives all that you see and it will eventually kill this planet..only a matter of time now.

              • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                Consumption! Carlin knew!

                Few truly understand the problem…or even give a shit.

                https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/american-consumption-habits/
                http://www.worldwatch.org/node/810

              • Indus society existed in South Asia from 2600-1900BC and then mysteriously disappeared.

                LOL — no Weapons…I wonder how they mysteriously disappeared

                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Hell a few Capitalists walked through one day and saw all the beauty and resources available to exploit.

                  They left got some more of their capitalistic friends/buddies and returned and slaughtered everybody.. took the booty and then sold it to the next village they came across for massive profits.

                  Is this not exactly what has been going on worldwide.. since 1900 BC?

                  Possibly first ones walking through were capitalistic missionaries…that ploy has worked flawlessly for ours and other European countries for centuries.

                  A sly approach, but very effective to say the least. Tools..all about the tools.

                  • Its called humans Obe, you are complaining about human nature.

                    Seems like we need to "work with it" instead of just bitching about it.

                    • danger kitty danger kitty

                      stock, "work with it" ? Thats the Ayn Rand approach. Pure fantasy.
                      Maybe what we need to recognize we are functioning on less than half a system. Maybe humans were never "designed" to work on brain power alone. There's the heart, the acupuncture & chakra systems. There's the part of the brain that generates shamanic experiences, as Taffy just posted.
                      Perhaps our "operating manual" involves checking in with "the force" in a prayerful way, whenever major operations in land management are contemplated.
                      If you get a reply back that tells ya you are gonna put a big hurt on mamma earth, creating a big pile of stupid, well, you've been warned…again.
                      The problem is how to get there. Shaman guided societies like my local indians worked that way, why can't we now that we know everyone can have shamanic experiences?
                      How can we mandate shamanic experience? The only real way to see & think for OneSelf.

                    • Awesome ideas DK, I think on those things every day, although I feel pretty effed up if I miss like 3 days meditation.

                      Thats part of "work with it" not to be confused with "accept it as is"

                    • danger kitty danger kitty

                      Yeah, for the masses that won't search their souls, a sharp blow to the third eye comes to mind. It just hit me…
                      Humans are not the scourge of the earth, we're just not working with a full deck, not utilizing the full spectrum of our abilities.
                      The brain, rational thought is merely a starting point…

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      We all make excuses..

                      I'm only human after all – YouTube
                      Video for I am only human youtube▶ 3:18
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_l8rCoy3FY

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      mankind fashioned a civilization that is out of touch with nature. Thats one thing.

                      Also mankind shaped an extensive code of thought and behavior , which keeps changing from tribe to tribe, religion to religion. These two things, along with the primal drives of the species…we are a species like a dog or wild pig…make mankind what he is.

                      There is nothing in natures code that says destroying a planets ecosystem is not possible.

                      Nobody can see the truth, …especially those ones that are sure they can

                  • razzz razzz

                    obewanspeaks: You are as dumb as the day you were born maybe even stupider.

                    According to you all businesses get thrown together into a capitalist pot and government stirs the pot.

                    You are a socialist masquerading as a whiner ignoring congress is the main socialist driving force.

                    • In my opinion modified capitalism in a democracy governed by the rule of law is still the best form of government.

                      Some forms of socialism are good such as Medicare and Social Security and food programs to feed the poor and some shelter for the poor.

                      Of course, the tax code and some bankruptcy laws, etc., and tax loopholes are also socialistic that benefit the wealthy, the wealthy form of welfare. Ex., read "Free Lunch" and other books. I've ordered "Dark Money" and "Chains of Democracy", but the books haven't yet arrived and I haven't read these books yet.

                      Privatizing some functions of the military has given tons of money to wealthy businesses such as Haliburton, when it could have been done much cheaper by the government.

                      The revolving door between industry and government hasn't been healthy. For example, spraying pesticides for West Nile Virus, when the sprays gained much money for private industry, but also caused most of the epidemic and the neuro-invasive forms of West Nile Virus.

                    • Deadboy

                      And what was/is the main driving force of capitalism? Imperialism or just plain greedy opportunism? I mean, you got centuries of capitalism (yes, yes, communist dictators are also often capitalists) and hey… shit's fucked up.

                    • razzz razzz

                      "Privatizing some functions of the military has given tons of money to wealthy businesses such as Haliburton, when it could have been done much cheaper by the government."

                      Government does not produce anything except debt besides death in time of war. The private sector carries the load of wants and desires of government desires unless select few are given no-bid contracts when governmental projects actually should be put out for bid in multifaceted tiers so specialized companies can compete against the larger contractors.

                      US government should eliminate the EPA, Department of Education, merge the security departments into one while eliminating Homeland Security (just don't renew the chapter in December and let it die) and privatized everything else. Let the State's handle their own local affairs by creating whatever agencies they think they need.

                      And last but not least, repeal the 16th Amendment along with the 17th so as to make Congress more competitive amongst the States instead of a concentrated central power emanating from a place called Washington DC that is always redistributing the wealth on a whim.

                    • Deadboy

                      "US government should eliminate the EPA, Department of Education, merge the security departments into one while eliminating Homeland Security (just don't renew the chapter in December and let it die) and privatized everything else. Let the State's handle their own local affairs by creating whatever agencies they think they need."

                      I can see the merit in this, though there are fundamental issues not addressed by that.

                      States are what feed the larger "country" entity, with those representatives coming from/through state systems and often being associated with corrupt governance at a higher level as well as corporate collusion. The state is still a subordinate, incorporated entity.

                      So even at state level, that's probably very wishful thinking and could allow for more localized abuse/corruption/deferral.

                      Say, Delaware.

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Razz..are you saying your not raping and pillaging everything you touch as a capitalist….you be the dumb ass then.

                      Dense as a brick..buried in myth..while grabbing your own crotch…will not save this planet from ourselves.

                      Good luck with that.

                      You can buy.. right now in Sunnyvale.. a 895 sq. ft. home for only 2.4 million dollars.

                      Your bid at 2.6 million might just get it!

                      Wake up you fool!

                      The capitalistic fever is very real and it is also very disgusting!

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      The driving force of capitalism is free wealth via exploitation and simply theft. There is in fact free wealth…the sun, life, love etc. Air and water used to be on that list. A defining moment of capitalism came with the introduction of the stock market and a belief that market competition produce the best, and even most ethical result. Its easy to see this is not true at all. Just play a game of monopoly, the landowners game

                      https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/monopoly-was-designed-teach-99-about-income-inequality-180953630/

                      Deadboy said
                      'And what was/is the main driving force of capitalism? Imperialism or just plain greedy opportunism? I mean, you got centuries of capitalism (yes, yes, communist dictators are also often capitalists) and hey… shit's fucked up.'

                  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                    Razzz..did you sell this home? Did you own it?

                    Are you the capitalist flipping the note for these new owners?

                    Dense me thinks you are..greed floods the capitalist brain 24/7.

                    Government is jumping for joy! Just think of the yearly increase they will collect in property taxes!

                    Glorious!

                    This Silicon Valley 'teardown' just sold for $2.6 million
                    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/04/this-silicon-valley-teardown-just-sold-for-2-6-million.html

                  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                    Code Exactly! Razzz is clueless..most of the time.

                    Seems he enjoys raping and pillaging what ever..planet is just one more needing some of our very profitable capitalistic love.

                    Reminds me when a dog shits on the walk and one has to pick up the shit taken. Capitalists have no such code..that dog can shit wherever it wants too, just like all this plastic worldwide..once the profits are in..who gives a shit..run like hell..not a capitalist's problem.

                    Profit cleans up nothing..unless it is forced to.

                    UN seeks a ban on single-use carrier bags as it reveals less than 10% of the plastic ever made has been recycled and countries aren't doing enough to curb pollution
                    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5806033/Ban-plastic-bags-UN-seeks-cut-pollution-recycling-falls-short.html

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              stock says "And what would you replace that Christian Capitalist meme with, what exactly?
              Provide 2 examples of working models on a fairly large scale."

              whats your point?

              Name two airplanes that were successful and controllable before 1900. Do it, or I will have to conclude your failure to grasp the failings of capitalism is just simple minded

              • If you have no plan going forward, the rest is just intellectual masturbation. (like philosophy that doesn't teach you how to live your life).

                You think humans are fundamentally different than 100 years ago? Well they are a little bit, dumber, dumbed down, toxicated. But basically the same.

                The problem and challenge is humans! duh

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  if you insist there is no alternative to the current system, then you will never look for alternatives, and quite possibly be blind to them when they are offered to you. This seems to be the case.

                  Of course one cant overthrow an entire system overnight. Everything, absolutely everything is tied to it. But you can start. One can start with a reformed outlook on what the capitalist ideals are and how they impact people and the ecology. Thats to say, realize the dire negative impact.

                  There is literature on alternatives and I have linked to some of it. Usury free operating capital would be a nice advance. A shift from profit before all else to a focus on betterment would be a refreshing change. Putting the power of productivity into the hands of the people is the 170 year old prediction of the evolution of economics and society outlined by Karl Marx. Of course there are huge forces that dont want any of this. Trump is working for and with those forces.

                  The plan going forward is to keep the discussion and complaint of the failings of capitalist economics in public view. Who knows, maybe like the rapid growth of the era of flight after the Wright brothers made some key developments, our children might live to see a world cut free from the bounds of capitalist exploitation, wage slavery and wealth inequality, what to say of the mass pollution and ever larger dead zones. All a result of profit before all else mentality

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          "I would like to know where the line is between doing business and doing capitalistic business? "

          you mean you dont know? If you had read my posts, rather than label me an idiot, you would know. You can lead a horse to water…

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      "America won the Cold War and defeated the contagion of communism overseas."

      stock youve got to be kidding right? Whoa brother, read up

  • Jebus Jebus

    Sumburgh Head lies at the southern tip of mainland Shetland. This dramatic 100-metre-high rocky spur, crowned with a lighthouse built by Robert Louis Stevenson’s grandfather, has a reputation for being one of the biggest and most accessible seabird colonies in Britain.

    Thousands of puffins, guillemots, razorbills, kittiwakes and fulmars gather there every spring to breed, covering almost every square inch of rock or grass with teeming, screeching birds and their young.

    Or at least they used to – for this year Sumburgh Head is a quiet and largely deserted place. Where seabirds once swooped and cried in their thousands, only a handful of birds wheel round the cliffs. The silence is uncanny – the result of a crash in seabird numbers that has been in progress for several years but which has now reached an unprecedented, catastrophic low.

    One of the nation’s most important conservation centres has been denuded of its wildlife, a victim – according to scientists – of climate change, which has disrupted food chains in the North Sea and North Atlantic and left many seabirds without a source of sustenance. The result has been an apocalyptic drop in numbers of Arctic terns, kittiwakes and many other birds.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/03/shetland-seabirds-climate-change-catastrophe-terns-kittiwakes-puffins

    Millions of birds will never call out to us again…

  • Deadboy

    I tried to explain this to someone as simply as I could. I think I failed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomography

    Oh how appropriate:

    "Work by Gordon Brownell, Charles Burnham and their associates at the Massachusetts General Hospital beginning in the 1950s contributed significantly to the development of PET technology and included the first demonstration of annihilation radiation for medical imaging.[59] Their innovations, including the use of light pipes and volumetric analysis, have been important in the deployment of PET imaging. In 1961, James Robertson and his associates at Brookhaven National Laboratory built the first single-plane PET scan, nicknamed the "head-shrinker."[60]"

    So, volatile toxic shit in the blood. Then, irradiate it. This is called "healthcare". Is that what that shit means or am I wrong?

  • This Muslim immigrant from Pakistan — incidentally a Constitutional Lawyer, and community "organizer" just like Obama, is running against Nancy Pelosi.

    That should almost be a "give me". He is from San Fran

    The power of mass media should not be neglected.
    http://www.keywiki.org/Shahid_Buttar

  • Project Blitz: the legislative assault by Christian nationalists to reshape America

    Since Donald Trump became president, rightwing groups are helping flood state legislatures with bills that promote hardline Christian conservative views

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/04/project-blitz-the-legislative-assault-by-christian-nationalists-to-reshape-america

    • The Guardian….hosting Yamashita shit faced smiley guy, and making him out to be the victim, taking a cue from Zionists…..

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        what does Yamashita or the guardian have to do with it? Evangelicals…how are they different in essence than fundamentalist muslims? Theyre really backwards, and its a horrid menace to humanity

        'In Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Louisiana and Tennessee, so-called “In God We Trust” bills have become law since 2017, which will see the phrase emblazoned on public buildings, hung in schools and displayed on the side of public vehicles including police cars. quest for “dominion” as the aim of Christian nationalists who consider that the Christian faith and their particular interpretation should be imposed.'

  • Spiritual feeling: Study locates part of brain that deals with the supernatural

    https://www.rt.com/usa/428717-supernatural-brain-area-parietal-yale/

    Neural Correlates of Personalized Spiritual Experiences

    https://academic.oup.com/cercor/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/cercor/bhy102/5017785?redirectedFrom=fulltext

    "…get your motor runnin'…" Steppenwolf.

  • PlowboyGrownUp

    Volcano in Costa Rica, frequent lightning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtEiPCi4xCA

  • Ron Paul

    grow your own food — teach your own kids
    (stock threw those in)

    The February mass shooting at a high school in Parkland, Florida prompted many parents to consider homeschooling. This is hardly surprising, as the misnamed federal “Gun-Free Schools” law leaves schoolchildren defenseless against mass shooters. Removing one’s children from government schools seems a rational response to school shootings.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-04/ron-paul-homeschooling-protects-chidren-violence-marxism

    School shootings are not the only form of violence causing more parents to consider homeschooling. Many potential homeschooling parents are concerned about the failure of school administrators to effectively protect children from bullying by other students.

    Of course many parents choose homeschooling as a means of protecting their children from federal education “reforms” such as Common Core. Other parents are motivated by a desire to protect their children from the cultural Marxism that has infiltrated many schools.

  • Now Hawaii amazingly quiet on EQ, scary quiet

  • razzz razzz

    'Guatemala’s Fuego volcano Erupts here in 2018 – That’s three So Far'

    "Guatemala’s Fuego volcano erupted with the most violent volcanic eruption in more than a century. People have been buried alive in the ash like Pompey. The eruption so far took place on Sunday and lasted for 16 and a half hours. The eruption reached 14,763 feet of ash thrown into the air. This is one of the more spectacular photos taken with lightning posted by Gloria Garces. You can see a brief video of the eruption captured by satellites at the NOAA.

    So far, we have three volcanoes now all erupting here in 2018 around the Pacific Rim of Fire. As previously warned, the more volcanos that erupt now contribute to the decline in temperature and this will help set the stage for the commodity rally coming in the years ahead. Nature is incredibly linked to cyclical behavior."
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/nature/guatemalas-fuego-volcano-erupts-here-in-2018-thats-three-so-far/

  • Deadboy

    I got enough drugs to work up some good "storms". Trust me, it'll be fun.

    • I posted this in General Nuclear, but there doesn't seem to be a link there from the comment queue.

    • Power lines, fallout and childhood leukemia
      Chris Busby
      9th May 2014

      “The hypothesis to be tested is that there is a correlation between the fallout particulate contamination and the leukemia risk near the powerlines. The argument is that powerlines concentrate the radioactive particles which are then inhaled by the parents and / or children….

      "Fig 2. Relative Risk of child leukemia versus fallout doses. Note statistically significant exponential relationship (RR = Klog(fallout) +C).

      “…A statistically significant correlation

      “The relationship we see between the increased risk of leukemia and the fallout exposure is not linear. It is modelled as a logarithmic relation in Fig 2 which shows a statistically significant correlation for RR = K log (dose) + C . Other mathematical fits are possible.

      “But what is clear is that there is a significant continuous trend with exposure. The large increase in fallout in the period 1959-63 resulted in increases in infant mortality from many causes [8] and pre-leukemic conditions are known to result in death from a wide range of infectious diseases.

      “The relation between fallout Strontium-90 and infant mortality has been shown to conform to a similar dose response. [9] …

      “[9] Busby C (1994) Radiation and Cancer in Wales. Aberystwyth: Green Audit….”
      https://theecologist.org/2014/may/09/power-lines-fallout-and-childhood-leukemia

      • This graph in fig. 2 shows that the incidence of leukemia is SUPRA LINEAR at the lowest doses of exposure.

        • Deadboy

          No it isn't, it's logarithmic. That means he estimates cancer rate increases to diminishes (according to that) with higher radiation.

          That, along with the rather unexplained graph-fitting he used for that other shit, is why I don't trust him. Not just that. But some of that.

          • Deadboy

            Do also take into account other, common factors that could be related to leukemia, if low doses of radiation isn't the most prominent factor.

            For instance, power lines, diets, pesticides, herbicides, water quality, vaccinations, other pollution, etc. You know, easily disregarded for the sake of funding "causative" isolated factors.

            I mean, if it weren't for those power lines, the radiation wouldn't even be there, supposedly.

          • Deadboy

            "That means he estimates cancer rate increases to diminish (according to that) with higher radiation."

            Ok let me be fair, sure, obvious cancer rates may seem to diminish, it's sort of a transitory effect. Something like the plasma state. Whenever you see the rate of change decreasing, something else is increasing. Heart attacks? Down syndrome or microcephaly? Aneurysms?

            So yeah, okay, let's say cancer rates are lower with higher radiation. But then, what other problems increase?

            Specifically, also, if it wasn't clear. Lower level radiation would have less effect (if you can imagine such a thing) related to more prevailing societal/environmental conditions. Which kinda throws an awful lot of doubt on the importance of those readings at low level.

            For instance. I am getting shot at every fucking day, people give me carcinogenic food every fucking day. See, that's bad and it kinda explains away the low level radiation bullshit because it's fucking irrelevant compared to that.

            • Deadboy

              *Whenever you see the rate of change of something decreasing, something else's rate of change is increasing.

              Sorry, I'm just getting started on the drugs.

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          incidence of leukemia is SUPRA LINEAR at the lowest doses of exposure? This depends entirely on what the source of radiation is. The theory given is that low level radiation is very toxic per radiation dose but the body kills enough damaged cells at a slightly higher dose to stop the progression of diseases from the radiation damaged cells. This is a very simplistic explanation. Scientists have started to focus on radiation quality to understand the complex and conflicting data

          • Deadboy

            CS, quick question, in the absence of relatively high doses of radiation, would you consider other factors to be more important factors in cancers and diseases, in general? I mean, considering the prominence.

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              Deadboy, is your question do I think factors other than nuke fallout more important in causing cancer and disease?

              I think diet is a big factor, and exposure to the slew of toxic chemicals ubiquitous in society to be big factors. But its hard to isolate single factors and put a weighting factor to them. People who are already exposed to chemicals may trip over into cancer with a little fallout, and healthy people may avoid it.

              I havent done the big study into cause and epidemiology to be able to answer your question reliably.

              I posited the theory that body born yeast and fungi could be a big factor in creating hot spots of fallout, leading to disease. Nobody is studying this or discussing it as far as I know. So, if true, is it the fungi or is it the fallout?

              A take away point though is that people who have been exposed to fallout can ameliorate the damage by dietary and herbal regimes. This fact alone disproves the mainstream science belief of how radiation does its damage, i.e. a completely random chance of genetic damage and expression.

              Timing is another factor. Maybe there is something about that one-two punch of high I-131 followed by a longer period of cesium that is worse than a simple addition of radiation exposure might suggest. The complexities are enormous

              • Deadboy

                "Maybe there is something about that one-two punch of high I-131.."

                My reasoning suggest that's pretty likely. Especially because of the thyroid damage. If you start adding shit like vaccinations, tonsil removals, diets that promote fungal growth, and so on…

                But, what I was saying was, even in the complete absence of damaging ionizing radiation. Considering fluoride, shit like herbicides/pesticides, gmo foods, benzene, vaccinations, other forms of radiation and pollution etc, would you not still see a lot of "cancers"?

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  'Considering fluoride, shit like herbicides/pesticides, gmo foods, benzene, vaccinations, other forms of radiation and pollution etc, would you not still see a lot of "cancers"?'

                  I think so. Even keeping people alive to older ages produces a rise in per-capita cancer rate

                  Cancer in wild animal populations is very low. Maybe fallout is the greatest factor for their cancer and many other diseases. Not so for man who is a toxic effluent reservoir for Monsanto and Dupont

                  • Deadboy

                    Cancer of course in shorter-lived animals should typically be lower too, due to toxin exposure.

                    Which is odd, if you look at cancer rates with domesticated animals. Radiation or not.

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      Most domesticated animals get fed gmo grain food loaded with pesticides, heavy metals plus shit human table scraps so what's odd?

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      Pets are dying left and right with organ tumors and liver failures. Plus vaccines are rampant with domesticated animals.

                    • Deadboy

                      Well, it seems to be quite mysterious to most people, at least, it seems to baffle Busby.

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      True, most people are "domesticated"
                      Busby is on a mission, not that it's a warrant but..

                    • Deadboy

                      Yeah look, I don't wanna downplay the dangers of radiation. But I think there's an awful lot of scapegoating and the nature of his studies and graphs mask and sort of hide away a lot of damage.

                      Like, I consider radiation damage to most likely be exponential, not linear, not biphasic lower radiation is more damaging than higher radiation bullshit. Also, I consider it to compound with other issues AND I consider at low level radiation that those other issues are likely more prevalent factors.

                    • Deadboy

                      damage relative to dosage I mean

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      "AND I consider at low level radiation that those other issues are likely more prevalent factors."I would tend to agree with that. As well as relative to dosage. But the type of radioisotope that is introduced to the biological entity will be very causative IMO.

                    • Deadboy

                      Of course, but, I would assume those graphs aren't plotted with random isotopes in mind, so there is likely consistency in that.

                    • earthsmith earthsmith

                      Most likely but I haven't seen those charts, so I'm downwind of my own gas.

              • danger kitty danger kitty

                Code, you hit three bull's-eyes.

                "A take away point though is that people who have been exposed to fallout can ameliorate the damage by dietary and herbal regimes."

                Oh yeah, I would be dead otherwise. And spirulina is doing the heavy lifting.

                "This fact alone {first quote} disproves the mainstream science belief of how radiation does its damage, i.e. a completely random chance of genetic damage and expression."

                Absolutely.

                "The complexities are enormous"

                Oh very complex. So many variables.
                You've taken the trifecta.

          • Subject: OVERVIEW: Deadly Deceit, Low-Level Radiation, High-Level Coverup
            Summary: there is no level of radiation low enough to be deemed "safe"

            “,,,We then found a statistically significant correlation between changes in infant mortality over the past two decades and regional risks of exposure to milk contaminated from civilian reactor emissions since 1974. The fourteen states in the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic regions with the greatest risk of exposure to contaminated milk also had the worst infant mortality performance. Analyzing these data, we found that while the exposure risk of eight Midwest states was 440 times greater than that of three northern New England states, the corresponding infant mortality performance was only ten percent worse. This evidence suggests that the dose-response is 'supralinear' rather than linear, which means that infant mortality rises more rapidly at low doses.

            “Another example of the supralinear relationship was offered in the wake of Chernobyl. The June 1986 increase in infant deaths over June 1985 in the U.S. was a full ten percent of the increase in West Germany's Baden-Wurttemberg province, even though U.S. radiation levels were only one-hundredth to one-thousandth as great.

            “This crucial evidence supports the 1972 laboratory findings of Dr. Abram Petkau, a Canadian radiation biologist, on the dangerous effects of "free radicals" created by exposure to low-level radiation.

            • [cont.] Free radicals are charged particles that can penetrate and destroy the blood cells of the immune system, especially at low-levels of radiation.
              “Our findings of a supralinear effect also agree with similar findings for cancer mortality from exposures to low-level radiation made by four eminent authorities: Dr. John Gofman, Dr. Karl Z. Morgan, Dr. Thomas Mancuso and Dr. Alice Stewart. All four scientists worked at various times for the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission or Department of Energy. All four concluded that the dose-response relationship was supralinear, which means that there is no level of radiation low enough to be deemed "safe". The government terminated the services of all four when they each, independently, came up with what Dr. Gofman has called the "wrong" answer–that is, the opposite of what the AEC wanted to hear.

              “The supralinear dose-response for infant mortality may apply to all deaths from immune-system damage caused by radiation-induced free radicals (the so-called 'Petkau effect' which is discussed in the methodological appendix). This generalization is supported by a projection of the current trend in the U.S. age-adjusted mortality rates (see Chapter Seven). This projection suggests that without fundamental change, the death rates of all age groups will begin to rise in the 21st century, cancelling out previous advances in longevity…..[cont.]

              • [cont.]
                “One striking number should be mentioned here: The statistical probability is less than one in one million that during the summer following the Chernobyl accident the excess deaths observed in the U.S. were due to chance. Equally improbable were the excess deaths observed in West Germany during the same time period. And, as related in Chapter Three, ornithologist David DeSante found at the same time that the number of newly-hatched land birds counted by the Point Reyes Bird Observatory in California in the late spring and summer of 1986 dropped 62 percent below the average of the preceding decade. The probability that the simultaneous summertime mortality peaks in the U.S., West Germany, and among birds are unrelated random events can be expressed mathematically as one out of 10 raised to the 30th power, that is, one out of:
                1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

                “Even so, we acknowledge that something other than radiation or chance may have caused the unusual mortality phenomena in the summer of 1986, as well as the other significant mortality increases associated with radiation releases described in this book. Our evidence is largely statistical and as such not one-hundred percent conclusive, but these significant statistics cannot be ignored. This book is a challenge to the scientific community to identify plausible alternative explanations. …[cont.]

                • [cont.]
                  “The charges made here are too important to be left to the experts for resolution. Continued reliance on nuclear technologies may pose an on-going threat to life on earth. The potential danger warrants the widest possible audience and public debate. As the final chapter indicates, it is not too late to eliminate the chief sources of radioactive pollution. We can cite as hopeful examples Wyoming and Montana, two states far from nuclear emissions where infant mortality rates are among the best anywhere in the world today.
                  https://ratical.org/radiation/inetSeries/DDoverV.html

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    yes, the findings detailed 'deadly deceit' dovetail with more recent findings. That is, the old radiation science is incorrect dogma.

                    Fallout is a toxin to life even at the atomic level…an average of a single atom per cell of cesium will have a negative effect on health.

                    Of course this is not true for K-40, either by atomic weight, mass, volume or radiation level. There is no known negative effect shown by test for k-40, thus it is an unfair comparison, almost always used to try and prove the insignificance of nuclear fallout. I fought Anne on this for years and won every argument, yet she is a die-hard believer in the radioactive toxicity of our 'god given' natural chemicals

                    • I you had won an argument you wouldn't have to keep claiming it.

                      All the scientists left this website because they have ore important things to do than to keep arguing with you.

                      Natural uranium is deadly as is radon which is also deadly. How did Madame Curie die?

                      And there is fissile K-40 which is included in the protocols for super clean up sites.

                      Alter people have gotten cancer from low dose radiation they can't be counted when exposed to higher amounts.

                      After nuclear fission, people are exposed to multiple radionuclides. When exposed to radionuclides from nuclear fission and EMF is added in the multiple whammy is too much for humans to survive.

                      The logrhythmic curve, i.e. SUPRA LINEAR, at low dose radiation reflects the logrhythmic curve of radioactive decay of radionuclides.

                      Just because you have unlimited time to post on the website doesn't mean that you have ever won an argument. Truly non-logical and a straw argument.

                    • And you are not arguing with me anyway. You arguing with the finest scientific minds who are whistleblowers of the nuclear industry.

                      Publish your findings in a peer review journal and then claim you have won an argument until a scientific person with credentials argue against your findings.

                      Have you ever conducted an epidemiological research study that has been published in a peer reviewed journal and whose research methods have been reviewed? Does the anti-nuclear community hire you as an expert witness in court cases?

                    • Deadboy

                      "The logrhythmic curve, i.e. SUPRA LINEAR, at low dose radiation reflects the logrhythmic curve of radioactive decay of radionuclides."

                      Yes anne, did you know at high doses the curve is entirely horizontal, so that means, no more cancer increases, no matter how much extra radiation you add.

                      So I can agree with low levels of radiation being damaging, I don't agree with higher levels of radiation being, relatively, less damaging which is unfortunately what a logarithm represents.

                      And you know what, it doesn't include an awful lot of factors that would be more important at low levels of radiation and kind of suggests that cancer increases basically diminish with more radiation, which may be true, but then you may want to consider other damage.

                      See, I don't believe in that logarithm as a true reflection of radiation damage. I think it's exponential, again.

                    • Deadboy

                      Useless troll you are, anne.

                    • Deadboy

                      "Have you ever conducted an epidemiological research study that has been published in a peer reviewed journal and whose research methods have been reviewed? Does the anti-nuclear community hire you as an expert witness in court cases?"

                      You know how easily you could use that sort of pointless rhetoric, say, defending monsanto? I promise you, it does apply.

                      Doesn't mean it's correct though.

                    • That is not what the curve means. If everyone already has cancer, there is no one left to count. Also at higher levels, people die immediately and are no longer alive to be counted.

                      And an insult is not necessary. It just shows that you have no argument.

                      Posting scientific published papers is not trolling.

                      Insulting people is trolling.

                      Just state your argument and avoid the personal insults. No one even comes to this website anymore because no one wants to listen to bullies on the kindergarten playground.

                      If 2 people just stated information, people would come for information and make up their own minds. Treating people like 5 year olds makes sure that no one will ever read all the anti-nuclear scientific arguments and everyone will die horrible radiation caused deaths.

                      People who are really trying to save the environment don't engage in 5 year old childish bullying techniques.

                    • Deadboy

                      "That is not what the curve means. If everyone already has cancer, there is no one left to count. Also at higher levels, people die immediately and are no longer alive to be counted."

                      Unfortunately you are unable to understand a graph very well and clearly you don't understand a logarithm because that is exactly what the curve means.

                      https://theecologist.org/siteimage/scale/0/0/377527.gif

                      Please do the math Anne, I'm sure you can.

                      We have a relative risk(whatever that is, btw) peaking at about 4.5. At that point there is no more leukemia increase. Clearly, ~20% of children aren't born with leukemia to begin with, I'm guessing it is a VERY low lumber (sorry I didn't check the numbers).

                      Socioeconomics (again, vague) alone can almost halve that relative risk, I guess.

                      "The variation in sensitivity for child leukemia with socioeconomic class is modest less than 200% from the most disadvantaged to the most advantaged. "

                      Not exactly that modest.

                    • "Clearly, ~20% of children aren't born with leukemia to begin with"

                      The graph starts at zero, not 20%.

                    • Deadboy

                      Yes anne, I'm saying I dunno what the incidence rate is. I could probably read all that shit, but I can also guess a bit.

                      The plot starts at about 0.4, btw.

                    • The age at which the childhood leukemia occurs is not part of the plot or part of the studies.

                      Fig 2. Relative Risk of child leukemia versus fallout doses. Note statistically significant exponential relationship (RR = Klog(fallout) +C).
                      https://theecologist.org/2014/may/09/power-lines-fallout-and-childhood-leukemia

                    • Deadboy

                      So you don't know what the fuck they're saying, is what you're saying.

                      Here's something cool I have to tell you about, since I'm a psycho/sociopath. How does the identification of leukemia work, btw? How would I encourage oncology involvement?

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Anne, Is there any way you can validate your assertions here;

                      'If you had won an argument you wouldn't have to keep claiming it…
                      All the scientists left this website because they have ore important things to do than to keep arguing with you'

                      The reason I feel mildly compelled to counter your belief that all radiation is a danger to life is that you attempt to disprove, time and time again, the points that Im bringing up, and in so doing, you muddy the water or dilute the message. The reason my message is important (however slightly it may be), is that it gives the anti nuclearist grounds with which to argue the pro nuclear camp.

                      Why? Because if you dont differentiate toxicity of radiation sources, then it all goes into one basket and you are left trying to explain why fallout, at 1/1000 the dose of background is the big monster. You will lose this argument every time because of the quantity of radiation involved.

                      You can prove that there is no safe dose perhaps (actually NOT proven for all radiation sources), but if its only 1/1000 increase over background, nobody is going to care. For example, you could prove there is no calorie consumption that doesnt contribute to being overweight, but eating 1000 calories of butter or 1001 calories of butter is not going to matter to anybody.

                      Thats exactly the situation you argue for and thus its a disservice to people who are trying to make a cogent argument against the nuclear industry.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      The graph in fact shows that not all radiation is dangerous. The Y axis is relative risk of getting leukemia. A RR of 1 should mean that there is no extra risk. RR numbers less than one should mean less risk than normal. But even if we ignore that, and assume a RR of 0 means no extra risk, the data still shows that not all radiation contributes to leukemia.

                      The X axis is 'fallout mean period annual dose uSv (NRPB data)' Note that RR goes to zero approximately when the radiation from fallout goes to zero (actually RR is zero even with some fallout radiation, but we will ignore that).

                      This shows then that leukemia is not caused by background radiation which gives a constant dose of 1.5 to 3 mSv/yr

                      In fact childhood leukemia is a particularly good example to prove that background radiation is not the cause of this cancer. The disease was first described around 1850 pretty well into the industrial age. A regression of current rate trends shows leukemia rates go toward zero around 1940, the advent of the nuclear age
                      https://www.hbhcoaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rates-of-childhood-cancer.jpg

                      and

                      http://circle.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Leukemia_Trend_Chart_v3-1024×836.png

                      which corroborates with the coincident rise in other cancers with the nuclear age

                      https://jonbarron.org/sites/default/files/cancer_trend_7.jpg

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      In fact Busby makes a case that it is nuclear fallout aerosols that are the cause of this increase in leukemia. This reinforces the observation that not all radioactive sources can be lumped into one basket. And certainly not all radiation, including non ionizing, as Anne has the tendency to do.

                      The importance of this is that radiation from the nuclear industry should get a much higher danger per dose rating than background radiation, to which it is nearly always compared. In fact if you look at the studies that show no increase in mutations from artificially increased K-40 radiation of 100 x or even 1000 x, fallout becomes nearly infinitely greater in toxicity.

                      This finding is strong ammunition against the nuke industry, whereas trying to prove that all radiation is bad lets them off the hook

                    • The graph doesn't talk about background radiation. Everyone knows you can get cancer from radon which is natural.

                      Everyone knows that you can get skin cancer from the sun.

                      People have been getting cancer from background radiation for thousands of years.

                      The ancient people died from deposits of uranium.

                      Alice Stewart showed that children were getting leukemia long before there was nuclear fission. What did Madame Curie die from, caused by what?

                      There is not a medical doctor or scientist who says that there is no cancer risk from background radiation.

                      There are things in nature that can kill you such as hemlock and other plants.

                    • Deadboy

                      "This finding is strong ammunition against the nuke industry, whereas trying to prove that all radiation is bad lets them off the hook"

                      It probably is, but, the way it's presented…I dunno, think about it psychologically, in terms of ape-man perception.

                      A graph with quick falloff…even if entirely true, due to the isolated focus of the study (after all, I could claim the RR is mostly influenced by proximity to power lines), how would you think the average person perceives the risk?

                      I mean, that's just leukemia and I consider that curve to be like a tiny subset of the problems, with importance and accuracy closer to the apex of the curve. If that makes sense.

                      If I start compounding different, additional and in some cases ignored effects, sure, I'm dumb but I guess most people are dumb too.

                      That's why when you show me a logarithm related to only one form of disease, I may interpret it strangely.

                    • Deadboy

                      Ooh ooh, anne, tell us more about skin cancer from the sun.

                      Tell us for instance about how skin cancer rates are negligible among people with high levels of melanin, who don't buy and use sunscreens and shit, etc.

                      Also tell us about how sunscreens become (more?) carcinogenic when exposed to uv.

                      Then tell us about those studies of
                      swedish women exposed to sun without sunscreen with less cancer than those swedish women with sunscreen and more cancer or something like that.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      You are missing it; The graph of leukemia vs radiation goes to zero at zero fallout. In fact it drops off precipitously. Yet there remains a radiation source. Regressing the trend of leukemia shows its a new disease, corresponding with the industrial revolution, and more-so with the advent of the nuclear era. Studies show low level radiation causes leukemia with an exponential function of accumulated dose
                      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-radiation-leukemia-idUSKCN0PJ2O920150709

                      studies also show that its not background radiation that is the cause
                      "Radiological risk assessments based upon conventional risk models inferred that the radiation doses received from radioactive material discharged from the installations were, in general, less (usually considerably less) than the doses received from natural background radiation, and much too small, by a factor of at least 100, to account for the excess cases of childhood leukemia "
                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076706/

                      This is good news for anyone who wants to fight the nuclear industry. Studies that shift the blame from background to fallout are exactly what is needed to overturn their base. The Busby article did the same by implicating fallout aerosols specifically

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      a question; after five or six years, why cant Anne catch on? She fights those who fight the nuclear cartel

                    • I'm not the one who argues against all the anti-Nuke scientists and Busby. You are.

                      I have an anti-nuclear website,

                      http://www.envinfo.org

                      Where is yours?

                      I quote all the anti-nuclear websites. What do you do? Arguing against your non-scientific opinions that no one will publish is not attacking the anti-Nuke movement.

                      Typical pro-Nuke arguments. Create a straw argument, twist the facts, and attack the anti=Nuke scientists and anti-Nuke proponents.

                      I've never used sunscreen, but I've had skin cancer.

                      Since all the anti-nuclear proponents have left, I'm gone.

                    • Deadboy

                      Cheers Anne, tell Judas I'm going to fucking whack him.

                    • Deadboy

                      You like posting bible stuff so here. Behold.

                      https://godmoneyme.com/2012/09/06/money-slaves-judas/

                      Luke 22:47

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Anne, your arguments against me are unfounded and have always been so. Busby and his group the ECRR opened up a huge range of toxicity for difference radiation sources. A range of over a million. Thats huge…what would a bee sting that was a million times more powerful feel like? Its beyond imagination.

                      So mainstream science generally lumps all ionizing radiation together with a multiplication factor of up to 20 for alpha, and when you include their organ and other specifics you get up in the dose coefficients around 300. This is a long ways from a million.

                      What I did was reduce the toxicity assumed for potassium. First by simple observation and logic, later by finding the few studies, and then corroborating with some theory. The case is strong, multifaceted, and its valuable.

                      I find it odd that anti nukers, supposedly you and Hippie Dog and a few others would put up this endless fight against my effort which in fact is nothing but good for anti nukers. Its not hard to see this.

                      If you had to debate Ken Beusseler who believes Fukushima fallout is insignificant, would you rather be armed with a bunch of stuff that says background radiation and fallout radiation are about the same in toxicity or would you like to have info that says fallout is thousands of times worse than background? You play into the hand of the nuke cartel. the question is, do you do it ignorantly or intentionally?

                    • Deadboy

                      Otoh, Anne is suggesting no radiation is safe. I don't actually know.

                      But to be safe, we're gonna have to shut down the sun. I've been saying this all along.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      shut down the sun and dont forget to turn off the oxygen, source of your free radicals which cause a million times more DNA damage than ionizing radiation

                      life is a balance. The things that give life also kill, like oxygen. Life was always radioactive. The nuke fallout type of radiation was the culprit that made exclusion zones and microcephalic children.

                    • Deadboy

                      "The nuke fallout type of radiation was the culprit that made exclusion zones and microcephalic children."

                      I tend to agree. Though of course, that's JUST radiation.

                      Sorry if I do harp on about other shit, but.

                      I wonder how the south americans with their monsanto pesticides/herbicide related microcephaly and genetic damage, especially in agricultural zones or where monsanto associated products were used (specifically, brazil) feel about radiation, though, relative to that sort of shit.

                      I kinda think the low levels of uranium on the brazilian beaches (though still fairly high) is not the real problem, in that case.

                    • Deadboy

                      *especially in agricultural zones or where monsanto associated products were used OTHERWISE (specifically, brazil) feel about radiation, though, relative to that sort of shit.

                      I've seen some pretty bad shit from/in argentina.

                    • Damn code you really either have selective hearing or you are out to twist the truth huh.

                      Here's a great lie even if you don't know it's a lie.

                      "If you had to debate Ken Beusseler who believes Fukushima fallout is insignificant, would you rather be armed with a bunch of stuff that says background radiation and fallout radiation are about the same in toxicity or would you like to have info that says fallout is thousands of times worse than background?"

                      What a load of bunk you spouted there codeshutdown.

                      Background radiation and fallout radiation are about the same in toxicity ya twit.

                      Why you ask?

                      Because so called background is based on the readings right before fukushima and there was a assload of nuclear radiation in the Pacific in the background in 2011.

                      So the majority of BACKGROUND was from bomb testing, Chernobyl, Rocketdyne, Three Mile Island and nuclear dumping, etc. BEFORE fukushima.

                      And the reason he said "Fukushima fallout is insignificant"?

                      He was testing sea water in 2012 and at that time IT WAS insignificant on the west coast of America. That was from testing the water not making up fairy tales.

                      We'll leave that job to you codeshutdown…

                      Are you blind or just uneducated?

                      Tell me I just gotta know because you are the one that keeps trying to say that natural potassium (k40) is bad for you…

                      But now background is OK?

                      Answer me this…

                      Just what in THE HELL is wrong with you..

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HD, you are wrong about the background that Buesseler and hence me are comparing to fallout. It was always there, in fact in greater amounts the further you reach back into history.

                      Anyway, the rest of your post was similarly bloviating bullshit….excuse me, copralite. (HD IS powered by copralite crystals). But I think you wanted to correct your statement that shutting down nuclear would double utility rates. Am I right?

                      You can do that now, to save your reputation

                    • Nuclear radiation is much worse than natural radiation. Talking about K-40 is a waste of time because the body mostly can handle K-40.

                      The body can't handle all the radionuclides from fissiln that NEVER existed in the world before man created them.

                      Humans could avoid natural uranium when it was in the ground. But they can't handle all the fissile created radionuclides.

                      The fetus is 1000s of times more sensitive to any radiation including x-rays. The use of x-rays are a created nuclear technology.

                      Life came into being on earth when it could just barely handle the radiation that was left over from the creation of the world. Life can't handle extra radiation.

                      Children are 10 to 38 times more vulnerable to radiation than adults, females twice as vulnerable as males.

                      Both ionizing and non-ionizing radiation cause double strand breakage which the body has difficulty repairing and if there is repairing it is mostly repaired incorrectly.

                      All the name calling is really unscientific and unproductive.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Anne, if mentioning K-40 is a waste of time and scientifically useless, why do Woods Hole, NOAA and all the other scientific mouthpieces mention it?

                      They mention it to discredit the people who believe the small by comparison radiation from the nuke industry is dangerous.

                      So that is in fact why its useful to talk about k-40. They have you over a barrel unless you can prove that it is not toxic. Fortunately Ive done that legwork. And no, the answer is not that potassium is a nutrient or that the body can excrete it, biological half lives and so on.

                      Also, the radiation in the environment was perhaps 10 x greater at the genesis of life. So your argument fails there. Ive given you good stuff but you fight it for unknown reasons

                    • So code if you don't even know that background is the measure of existing radiation, that would be the total of ALL existing radiation before taking a reading and that most all of a background reading is from man made sources, who's the real bloviating bullshiter here.

                      Ya know like in reality not in your fantasy k40 land but in true science and documented fact.

                      Wow if you knew how stupid you sound when spouting these total lies you would stop…

                      But as they say, "If you are stupid how would you know"…

                      That's as simple a description as "background reading" is.

                    • I never said that knowledge about K-40 is scientifically useless.

                      Your lies about me are really inexcusable and insufferable.

                      In addition I follow Busby and ECRR and you don't.

                      You love arguing and your ego more than you love the truth.

                    • Wow here's a classic from good ole codeshutdown (love ya, mean it)…

                      "if mentioning K-40 is a waste of time and scientifically useless, why do Woods Hole, NOAA and all the other scientific mouthpieces mention it?"

                      K-40 is mentioned because it is how we try to estimate how much "man made" heavy metal poison radiation exists in the world today.

                      It is a completely different test than testing for radiation and is not used in any way when testing for live radiation.

                      If you would open your eyes and watch some bionerd vids and then learn the measurements and what they mean you would already know that.

                      K-40 is not used in testing and is not used in any way to determine test results from a given time or place. They make a broad comparison between k-40 and man made nuclear because that's how they estimate how much has been released since the nuclear age began.

                      This just keeps gettin better and better or worse and worse depending on how you look at it…

                      Ya know code if you would get a real education you would know these thing but when all one does is point fingers at experts and study fairy tales they do tend to come up short on facts…

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      anne, so knowledge of K-40 is not useless, but talking about it is? "Talking about K-40 is a waste of time"

                      You and HD are lost in your lost worlds. Sure, it doesnt do any good to say that, unless you stopped for a minute to think it through.

                      HD, you have written some more stuff on K-40. All of it is wrong. They dont warrant a rebuttal, the info is all out there. Your attempts are futile, why carry on? People might start to think you are stealing Annes identity…and we all know what happens then

                    • Here is the best and most simple explanation of what the term background actually means…

                      And remember that background in the total of everything present. In this case there is no k-40 involved as the empty machine contains no k-40 whatsoever. Just man made isotopes…

                      I started it right where it is stated so listen carefully when you click on it.

                      Now listen carefully and back it up if you have to to understand what she is saying about background here…

                      https://youtu.be/OsEp0FzMkUw?t=1m1s

                      And I truly hope this help you to understand…

                      …good luck.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HD, actually K-40 is present because its in the ground. Also in the background are cosmic radiation and C-14 and radon and daughter products etc, so NOT just man made radiation. So its not the best explanation of the background radiation or you might have understood it.

                      better luck next time bub…keep up that juicing and exercise. Ginko biloba might help

                    • Graph of low level radiation risk

                      Here is the curve of radioactive decay:
                      http://www.splung.com/content/sid/5/page/radioactivity

                      Here are graphs of logarithmic and exponential curves:
                      https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-algebra/chapter/graphs-of-exponential-and-logarithmic-functions/

                      Here is Aaron Datesman’s explanation:

                      “…Many professors of electrical engineering, physics, or astronomy can, no doubt for a generous consulting fee, write down Schottky's equation from memory and then carry on with their business after shooing you away. This is the result*** for the average decay power (including the shot noise contribution) generated by a dilute system of radioactive particles. The total derivation in my notes takes up about seven lines and only barely requires calculus:

                      “Among other situations, this equation would apply to a lungful of radioactive krypton or xenon gas expelled from the damaged reactor at Three Mile Island in Middletown, Pennsylvania, in 1979. The expression is fit**** to Wing's TMI lung cancer data in the graph below….”
                      http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003679.html

                      I have Busby’s mathematical explanation of the childhood leukemia risk vs. fallout in Wales on my other computer. It is from Busby’s ‘Wings of Death’. Sorry that I didn’t have time last night to get it. I was in the middle of planting seeds, which I had already sprouted indoors, into my garden outdoors. ….[cont.]

                    • [cont.] …I use the Farmers Almanac Gardening Calendar (by the moon) and the seeds need to be planted according to that calendar.

                      I have posted Busby’s explanation before on enenews.com, but that information is on my other computer and it will take me time to transfer the information to my present computer. And I really need to put the information on my website so I can just refer to it.

                      Wings of Death: Nuclear Pollution and Human Health Paperback – October, 1995
                      by Chris Busby (Author)
                      https://www.amazon.com/Wings-Death-Nuclear-Pollution-Health/dp/1897761031

                      I have a copy of this book. But I’m also in the process of building more bookcases and I have stacks of books all over the place, so I’m not real organized at the moment.

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    deadboy…science or people generally, isnt good at quantifying and comparing the danger of pollutants on the ecosystem scale. Did Fukushima cause the crash of the pacific ecosystem? Its just difficult to prove or disprove. But we have the ECRR extrapolation that the bomb test era killed some 60 million people. After Chernobyl, there were farms in Wales closed down for decades. At least with monsanto poisons people can believe they are poisonous. With low level fallout scientists and the people that listen to them think there is no poison to speak of.

                    Another issue is that there is enough radioactive poison to kill everything, just sitting in spent fuel pools and in barrels here and there and in the ocean.

                    Of course, everything has an influence. The end of the ecosphere will come as a result of nuclear radiation and poison and too many people eating too much stuff and too many oil spills and everything else you can imagine.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      hahah, arent good. Better start proofreading my stuff, that sounds pretty bad

                    • Deadboy

                      "At least with monsanto poisons people can believe they are poisonous"

                      They don't actually, otherwise they wouldb't buy that shit every day.

                      This is not like, directed at you, just an observation for newbiews.

                      Bayer produces poison, they have a background of chemical warfare, bayer is involved with food and chemicals in oncology and pharmaceutical industries, they sell baby food ffs.

                      They are also associated with monopolization along with monsanto, who use genetic engineering methods with poison. In turn, those products genetically engineer you.

                      Yet, people support it (hey, I'm probably gonna eat some bt-corn soon). What was that statistic about 90% of food containing glyphosate?

                    • Deadboy

                      To put it in another way, no immediate damage.

                    • Deadboy

                      "Did Fukushima cause the crash of the pacific ecosystem?"

                      Tentatively, I still have to suggest no. Biomass decline and industry before fukushima was probably enough devastation, by itself.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Chemical poisons are horrible. Biological weapons, industrial accidents like Bopal, plastic everywhere, pesticides, even fertilizer. Nuke fallout is in a class of its own though, in some important respects

                      "Experts estimate that Pu-239 is so noxious that only one pound would be enough to kill everyone on our planet if it were so evenly dispersed in the air that everyone inhaled it… Pu-239 has a half-life of over 24,000 years, and will remain radioactive for about a half a million years"

                      "Hanford stores about 50 million gallons of high-level radioactive nuclear and chemically hazardous wastes in underground storage tanks that were not designed for long-term storage. Roughly a third of these tanks have leaked, so that at least a million gallons of radioactive waste has reached the natural environment. "
                      https://ieet.org/index.php/IEET2/more/morris20160405

                      Scientist Rosalie Bertel estimates nuclear has so far killed over a billion people. We may not care very much, but what about the other species? Swans, dying of tumors or starvation

                    • Deadboy

                      I wasn't suggesting nuke shit or fukushima isn't super bad.

                      Just trying to address that specific question (fukushima).

                      Environmental, population declines from say 1911-2011, pre-fukushima. That alone is NOT pretty.

                  • Deadboy

                    "So code if you don't even know that background is the measure of existing radiation, that would be the total of ALL existing radiation before taking a reading and that most all of a background reading is from man made sources, who's the real bloviating bullshiter here."

                    Hey, it's kinda hard to argue that, it's not like I have seen a truly believable comparison to radiation in 2000bc.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Deadboy, radon is considered the big background airborn source. Its quite variable, but no doubt has been around since forever. K-40 is the largest internal source and one can do a reliable regression from the half life. Primal soup at the dawn of life on earth was maybe 10x more radioactive than today, if I remember right.

                      Carbon 14 is interesting because the bomb test era actually did increase this background radiation by a lot.

                      The other sources of so called background are misnomers, like x-rays and cat scans.

                      I would take x-rays over fallout aerosols any day, all else being equal. I wouldnt remove my k-40, on the chance that decreased radiation would make me healthier

                    • Deadboy

                      But, how much radon is exposed these days, to mining and related processing?

                    • Deadboy

                      *due to

                      Sorry, it's 3am and I'm inebriated as fuck.

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    sorry HD, you lost a long time ago. Potassium is the highest internal source of "background" radiation and the highest source of oceanic radiation and this is the radiation source that scientists always use to compare to nuke fallout.

                    The internal nature of it is important because any toxicity would be hundreds of times worse compared to external radiation sources due it being inside you all the time, right next to your DNA.

                    Yet there it is. You are 5x more radioactive than the ocean which is already 1000 times more radioactive naturally compared to the addition of fallout. To anyone's knowledge, it hasnt created death or disease or microcephaly, dead zones, heart attack, cancer etc.

                    Your attempt to turn my statements around 180 deg were absolutely futile. Sorry guy. Keep up with your juicing and get some exercise

                    • Deadboy

                      To be fair though, I do consider the fact that background levels are likely adjust and inflated to mask some of the shit HD mentions.

                      I dunno if it's correct or not, but I do consider it. Especially with malleable radiation regulations.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      DB, they arent going to fudge radiation numbers from potassium, C-14 and radon…they DO add medical radiation, which about doubles the 'background' dose. Radiation from nuke fallout is pretty small by comparison, in any case. I think less than 1% and maybe 5% at the bomb test peak. Numbers vary depending on publication source

                    • Deadboy

                      Well now imdisappoint. Oh well.

                    • danger kitty danger kitty

                      Wow, Code, Unbelievable! I'm away from enenews for just a few hours and I come back to see hippie dog pushing his own face into the dirt again.
                      Once again it's like watching Barney Fife in a clown suit trying to punch out Ali.
                      None of his blows are connecting, he's not even aiming at the right arguments!

                      And Db, you would do well to study Codes words & sources IN DEPTH. Your post above backing the bloviator is ridiculous – ",,,it's hard to argue that…"

                      Also Db, you know who else talked about any other vector besides radiation as being a possible cause of cancer?
                      socref, that's who. The "10,000 things".
                      Amuse yourself as you may, and sure there's other nasties out there that cause cancer, but rest unassured that radiation is the one most likely to kill all humanity the fastest and the deadest. if there are any more meltdowns.

                    • Deadboy

                      Don't worry DK, I have done better than well.

                    • And I wanted to say chemical and physical properties but it got cut off from too many chars…

                      Code you are a waste of double talking time jumping around on subjects like a baptist preacher reading bible passages…

                      No wonder you are so confused…

                      The subject was… You twisting what a real expert said and trying to make it into a lie, not about your phantom k-40 bullshit….

                      When a official compares background to the current reading after a accident he is comparing ALL radioactive sources read before the accident, not just natural…

                      Ya frickin child…

                      And the danger kitty troll is as useless as tits on a boar, looks like you two could find another site to mess up with your lies and insults…

                      Your'e meant for each other…

                      Frickin trolls….

                  • Just trying to give you the simplest explanation I could find code…

                    And duh I know about radon…

                    When's the last time you tested your home?

                    If you remember I was the one suggesting you test for it…

                    However one thing has nothing to do with the other
                    Just more double talk and distraction from you…

                    You don't have a clue about the actual percentages and what they mean…

                    The actual percentage can be around 0.1% in the Antarctic and can be as high as 5% or more in the waters outside of fukushima.

                    So that's just another broad term distraction by you.

                    And your percentages mean nothing to start with.

                    Here's a example.

                    So even say 15% radon wouldn't hurt you in the least.

                    1% of Cesium would give you cancer and kill you five years or less.

                    1% of plutonium would kill you and everyone around you in a matter of days.

                    K-40? No known dose of natural potassium through food or environment causes death or even injury to a healthy person.

                    Now why is that? Because of the chemical composition of these substances.

                    So which of these statements true or false?

                    Answer? 1% of how much? Without that information these statements are false no matter how well they are typed out.

                    The only true statements contained in there are:

                    K-40? No known dose of natural potassium through food or environment causes death or even injury to a healthy person.

                    and

                    Now why is that? Because of the chemical composition of these substances…

                    • danger kitty danger kitty

                      Mr H. dog. Even Ken Buessler would give you a fail for saying K40 is not part of background. His deceptive wordcraft depends on K40!
                      You are lost, you are flailingggg.

                    • danger kitty danger kitty

                      You be dee troll, drivel mutt.
                      Thats been clear to all since your arrival.

                      But, please, feel free to embarrass yourself more.
                      It's getting amusing.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HD, actually your wrong about the cause of toxicity being chemical. Cesium is about as toxic as salt, chemically. But weve been over that several times. Your attempts at derision dont work man…

                    • Deadboy

                      "HD, actually your wrong about the cause of toxicity being chemical. Cesium is about as toxic as salt, chemically. But weve been over that several times. Your attempts at derision dont work man…"

                      Not entirely, if you recall some things.

                      I remember arguing something like this, though not as "scientifically".

                      "Cesium (Cs) is chemically similar to potassium (K). However, although K is an essential element, Cs is toxic to plants. Two contrasting hypotheses to explain Cs toxicity have been proposed: (1) extracellular Cs+ prevents K+ uptake and, thereby, induces K starvation; and (2) intracellular Cs+ interacts with vital K+-binding sites in proteins, either competitively or noncompetitively, impairing their activities. "

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HD, you have to look at toxicity per dose. A health-significant dose of Cs-137 is one atom per cell. A significant dose of cesium to arabidopsis is a large percentage of the potassium fraction; 120,442,830,000,000,000,000 atoms/ gram, it appears.
                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC527179/

                      and this can be reversed by more potassium. So the comparison of chemical toxicity to radioactive toxicity is not even remotely close

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    anne, it almost seems like you are trying to equate the supralinear curve of low level radiation danger to the log curve of the decay rate. Are you? Because that might be embarrassing

                    • Deadboy

                      That is exactly what happens when someone interprets that sort of graph and the related (vague) information. I did try to explain some of that.

                      See, a logarithm is convex, so, it's not really supralinear. Let's say you discretize and do a linear fit on that curve. Every successive segment tends to align more horizontally.

                      So saying it's supralinear at low doses, isn't even entirely correct, because that would be with respect to the WHOLE curve.

                      And as I've tried to explain, with various references to other things that are more likely to be bigger influencing factors in cancer rates, I really don't like way that graph is presented, even if well intentioned.

                      And now I forgot about something really important I want to say, while typing that. Fuck.

                    • Deadboy

                      Oh yeah, have we figured out what the actual indicence rate of leukemia is, btw?

                      Just eliminating the "socio-economic" effect already lowers that quite a bit.

                      Then, I have to ask, when and how were these people identified with leukemia, what about their medical histories? Diets, etc.

                      Fucked up, because I'm trying to argue radiation damage is exponential. Which is literally an inverse of that logarithm.

                    • No. The curves are not equal at all. One curve is concave and one is convex. They are interrelated, but opposites. One is the cause and the other is the effect which is the result of that cause. I'm just bringing you the explanations of those who understand physics and math.

                      One is the findings when physicist study the rate of radioactive decay based on actual physical experiments.

                      The other is the curve found when scientists study actual epidemiological data of people getting cancer correlated to amount of exposure of nuclear fallout.

                      Dr. Gofman had a PhD in nuclear physics and a PhD is math. You can find a reference to him and the similar curve he postulates on my website:

                      http://www.envinfo.org

                      These are not theories of mine. They are the findings of the best experts. I'm just bringing information.

                      The nuclear industry engages in deception because here are huge amounts of money and power involved. They are able to be successful with their deceptions because one of the possibilities of human response is denial. It is many times easier for a person to be in denial than to face the truth.

                      It is the experts you argue with, not me. I'm just being a librarian here. I believe Dr. Busby and Dr. Gofman and as I find time in the future I will post their explanations.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      HD, I gave a graph above, and you can regress that roughly and easily to show that childhood leukemia was nearly non existent before the nuclear age. Any cases could be caused by a multitude of things back in history, from hormone imbalance, to improper exposure to microbes of the infant, to lack of folate and who knows what else, but nevertheless, the incidence was extremely low. In another post I confirmed that background dose of radiation is not the cause, its nuke fallout

                    • TYPO: Dr. Gofman has a MD degree, a medical doctor, as well as a PhD in nuclear physics.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      anne, but the exponential curve of decay rate has nothing, or nearly nothing to do with the this supralinear curve of biological impact. Unless you have something in mind

                      Gofmans degree is not in question. Im not fighting Gofman, although it can be said that he didnt have the advantage of all the latest research. You only think Im fighting Gofman, which is curious because Im obviously not

                    • I'm not trying to say a direct mathematical cause and effect, but the curves are correlated. The experts have more accurate explanations and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.

                      Basically, when they assert that there is no safe level of radiation, that assertion comes from epidemiological data =- real people, real results. The most vulnerable, for whatever reason or reasons, fall victim to verifiable effects of radiation exposure.

                      The correlation of the two types of graphs is a correlation from actual data. There is not an exact one to one mathematical correlation between cause and effect, but the 2 kinds of graphs, exponential and logarithmic, are correlations.

                      So sad that this has happened in the world and we have to witness the pain and suffering and the destruction of the earth. Those who brought about the existence of the atom bomb knew they had destroyed the world and themselves with cancer and heart attacks, etc. So sad and heart-breaking that there are now over 2,000 genetic diseases. The children suffer from the mistakes brought about by adults, as does the whole planet and life on that planet.

                    • Deadboy

                      Anne, that curve is a logarithmic curve, right. I mean that little formula they use kinda mentions it, too.

                      A subset of it, relative to the whole curve could be considered supralinear. But even that is kinda grasping. Btw, which part of that curve is supposedly concave, you're gonna have to show me. Supralinear means more than linear and that would be concave. Definitely not evident on that second graph.

                      Unfortunately also, the plot starts at a relative risk of about 0.4 (what does this mean, btw?, still wanna know), with radiation present. Even though I don't understand what the means (is it extra/additional risk, or is it a multiplier of some base level of leukemia, which would of course, by itself be vague).

                      Think about it anne, just socioeconomics means I could reduce a relative risk of near 2 to 1. Then, if I make sure I'm not near a power line, risk is additionally, greatly reduced.

                      Have YOU figured out the cancer incidence rate, btw? There's a bunch of shit you can consider.

                    • One of problems of leukemia data before 1940 is that it wasn't usually diagnosed as leukemia but rather diagnosed as dying from an infection. There is scientific study of this phenomena that concludes that there was more incidence of leukemia from background radiation than was recorded before the splitting of the atom and more knowledge of the effects of radiation. It think it was Dr. Alice Stewart.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      I dont believe this
                      "There is scientific study of this phenomena that concludes that there was more incidence of leukemia from background radiation than was recorded before the splitting of the atom and more knowledge of the effects of radiation"

                      please read to the end;
                      "https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3076706/"

                      all efforts to demonize pre industrial radiation help the nuclear cartel

                    • The Woman Who Knew Too Much, Revised Ed.: Alice Stewart and the …
                      https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0472053566
                      Gayle Greene – 2017 – ‎Biography & Autobiography
                      Alice Stewart and the Secrets of Radiation Gayle Greene … is pointing in exactly the opposite direction, showing a supralinear model, with damage at low dose.

                      Special Isotope Separation Project Construction & Operation Using …
                      https://books.google.com/books?id=wf4wAQAAMAAJ
                      1988
                      … in cancer, the linear and supralinear relationships). 5.13.19 5.13.12 5.23.18 5.13.3 Mincuso, Thomas F., Alice Stewart, ind George Kneale I977 "Radiation I92 …

                      New Scientist – Feb 15, 1979 – Page 503 – Google Books Result
                      https://books.google.com/books?id=_SL6lk5bp_8C
                      Vol. 81, No. 1142 – ‎Magazine
                      Alice Stewart can be congratulated on having noticed a slight but genuine … Finally, in favouring the supralinear effect for low doses, Stewart and Kneale take no …

                      Low-Level Radiation and Immune System Damage: An Atomic Era Legacy
                      https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1351082655
                      Joseph J. Mangano – 2018 – ‎Science
                      … radiation in adolescents, 120–121 supralinear dose response curve, 57–58 Stevenson, Adlai, 35 Stewart, Alice, 36 Stillbirths, 99–100 Storage, nuclear waste, …

                      Radiation, High-Level Coverup
                      Summary: there is no level of radiation low enough to be deemed "safe"
                      “…Our findings of a supralinear effect also agree with similar findings for cancer mortality from exposures to low-level ra

                    • OVERVIEW: Deadly Deceit, Low-Level Radiation, High-Level Coverup
                      Summary: there is no level of radiation low enough to be deemed 'safe'

                      “…Our findings of a supralinear effect also agree with similar findings for cancer mortality from exposures to low-level radiation made by four eminent authorities: Dr. John Gofman, Dr. Karl Z. Morgan, Dr. Thomas Mancuso and Dr. Alice Stewart. All four scientists worked at various times for the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission or Department of Energy. All four concluded that the dose-response relationship was supralinear, which means that there is no level of radiation low enough to be deemed ‘safe’….”
                      https://ratical.org/radiation/inetSeries/DDoverV.html

                    • "all efforts to demonize pre industrial radiation help the nuclear cartel"

                      Not true, rational, or logical. Adding man-created radionuclides, especially in the huge amounts now existent, to pre industrial radiation is complete insanity.

                      The world was dangerous enough in the past. How many millions were murdered pre-1945 in wars and revolutions.

                      Now there is no way to avoid every source of radiation. Plutonium, radioactive cesium and strontium, are horrifying. Yet governments keep manufacturing radionuclides which are bio-accumulating in the environment for many years.

                    • Deadboy

                      "One of problems of leukemia data before 1940 is that it wasn't usually diagnosed as leukemia but rather diagnosed as dying from an infection. "

                      Uhuh. Uh. That's a good one. Can you say….cryptococcus?

                      You check the fertilizers, pesticides, chemical testing, nuclear tests, socioeconomic conditions you know, say like…from 1880-1940?

                      Polio was also often misdiagnosed, too.

                    • Deadboy

                      Btw, I haven't actually checked any of that shit. But I figure radioactive particles would kind of gravitate towards electrons, actually the other way around, but. Just guessing.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      actually, its correct to say that all efforts to demonize background radiation, k40 in particular works in favor of the nuclear industry.

                      its simple; the worse you make background radiation, the better fallout looks by comparison. There is no way to argue that.

                      But truth matters. You can review the huge pile of stuff I put together that shows K-40 is not a danger. It doesnt cause dead zones, exclusion zones, small brains or genomic instability. And the radiation from it is 1000x greater than Fukushima fallout.

                      You can see why I suspect anne of being a pro nuke troll. Ive hammered this point for years yet she still wants to make background bad.

                      Some time ago she changed her story. Now she says nuclear fallout is worse than background. Well how much worse? Ive actually tried to quantify it. Based on the few tests available that show no deleterious effects and no mutation even enriched over 100x, Cs-137 becomes infinitely worse. If she agrees with this, then I guess we agree

                    • No one is demonizing natural K-40 or anything else. Science finds the truth. There were other natural radioactive elements from mining coal and other mining. These elements cause childhood leukemia.

                      “Radon was the fifth radioactive element to be discovered, in 1899 by Ernest Rutherford and Robert B. Owens, after uranium, thorium, radium and polonium. In 1900 Friedrich Ernst Dorn reported some experiments in which he noticed that radium compounds emanate a radioactive gas he named 'Radium Emanation' ('Ra Em').”
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon

                      The graph that started at 0.4 started there because the graph wasn't a theory. It was based on actual epidemiological data and that data wasted at 0.4 and they didn't have at 0.4 because they didn't have any data lower than that in that particular study.

                      Dateman's graph shows both a theoretical curve compared with the actual curve of people getting lung cancer after TMI. The actual curve is based on data collected from people actually getting lung cancer caused by TMI.

  • PlowboyGrownUp

    "A single one-hour meditation session can do wonders for your heart, study shows" https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-06-03-a-single-one-hour-meditation-session-can-do-wonders-for-your-heart.html Depends on the person, a few minutes does it for some imo.

  • GOM GOM

    4/12/18

    Radioactive Sludge Barrel Ruptures at Idaho Nuclear Site

    I have no words for this WTF incident.

    We have truly arrived at human indifference and ignorance..

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/idaho/articles/2018-04-12/incident-reported-at-idaho-nuclear-site-crews-responding

    • What's truly terrible (and criminal) is that in the 21st century they can't find something better to put that crap in than a plain ole 55 gallon drum.

      And what's even worse than that?

      Just imagine what all those drums of sludge dumped to the bottom of the ocean look like today…

      …Thousands of them.

      Recon any of them ruptured yet?

      Steel barrels in salt water for over 50 years?

      Wow no more seafood for me….

      What a crime against the earth herself.

  • Deadboy

    Ho'oponopono

    Like, I'm wondering what chemical that is.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      Both democrats and republican politicians want legal migrants. The reason is so they can control, extract taxes, impose fees and fines including insurance and usury. There isnt much difference that I can see in the rate of migrant workers coming over in democratic or republican regimes. Certainly real estate mogul Trump needs them for his businesses

      big business wants them for work but they also want to extract as much money from them as possible in the process

      • Who else is going to pick our fruits and veggies? an amurikan, Not. Time and time again there are reports of the shortage of farm labor and crops rotting in the fields. Dumb and Dummer!!!

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          Taffy, low wage migrant worker harvesting is not simply because they have a different willingness to work, its a necessity to be competitive in a capitalist machine that has made things cheaper than what one can reasonably accomplish. Many a farmer or farm community would harvest the crop without migrant workers in days of old. I know people who still do it. Increased mechanization will make the cost of all manual labor based goods prohibitive.

          If you were a white kid thinking about doing migrant harvesting, you would work entirely with latinos, many or most of whom dont speak your language. You would get $9.50 an hour. And you wouldnt get hired because, being legal, they would have to pay benefits and everything typically 1.25 to 1.4 times base salary range. To keep the same profit, the farmer would have to sell at a higher price

          This all comes from a non agrarian civilization. Its horrendous in many ways; exploitative, favors unsustainable, toxic farming practice and monocultures and removes people from direct contact with nature.

          migrant workers isnt a 'good thing', its a necessity in a deformed and grotesque civilization

          • https://gilbertweaversatchell.org/my-music-video/

            Please listen to Michael Pickett sing Deportee and read the related story.

            Thanks

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              good story Taffycat. Everything veers towards nostalgia toward the end

              • Not to be rude but I have been living "Deportee" and the migrant dismay since I was a toddler. I felt your comment short changed that. But then, how would you know? For me it is a very complex issue, that will remain raw until I die.

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  Taffy, I certainly didnt mean to short change your experience or message.

                  I couldnt understand all the lyrics. Ive also been at the fringe of society with meager incomes. What is it you would like that I grasp, …if you could be more specific?

                  If I could create a better world, I would get rid of the need for migrant workers. At least make their lives better. If you felt an outcast in your own country, it probably wasnt as dramatic as when youre a white dominated by the Mexican culture. One can see this in California. There was a highschool a friend of mine went to; Camelback. They instituted a mixed ethnic policy and in a few short years it was dominated by hispanics with a little minority of black and white.

                  People have grand ideas of unity but they are just idealistic dreams.

                  • I went through grade school and high school in Sunnyslope. Grad of Sunnyslope High class of 1969. Most of my friends were whites or latinos. It was the "bad part of town" then. Still is to some extent today. Much easier for me to relate to than the snooties of Camelback and Central High's.

                    None of this matters. I live at the margins and can't wait to die.

                    See ya.

                    • There is still time to do something significant with life

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Taffy, Camelback is 75 or 80% hispanic. IF you call them snooty, they are likely to beat you up, thus proving your point

                      One of the few instances where a different ethnic person is integrated is when savage comanches kidnapped a white kid. In six months they were indian. The other dreams of integrating ethnic groups is just idealistic non truth. What they are saying is they expect the newcomer to be like them, never the other way around

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      "There is still time to do something significant with life" easy to say if you have money and health. The only thing Taffy can do now is work on his health. Fasting, herbs etc. He might be able to wildcraft some herbs if he can still walk. Im not sure

  • Deadboy

    I can count the people I trust here, with two fingers. And the only reason I need two is because otherwise it wouldn't properly symbolize zero.

  • GOM GOM

    Update..Hawaii: Puna Geothermal [PGV]

    .."they are making sure they're ready"

    Act I: First, plant manager 'Travis' was was confident that a magical wall of lava had formed a "barrier to the plant"..as actual lava flowed into plant grounds.

    May 28, 2018 · A production well at Puna Geothermal Venture in Puna was covered by lava late Sunday … Hawaii Tribune

    Act II: Lava has burned down 2 buildings, at least 1 is known as a warehouse.

    4 days ago: Lava burns 2 buildings at Puna Geothermal plant. Associated Press …

    The power plant has been taken offline, but well KS-14 is still considered active. 'Travis said' it would be “difficult … to imagine” a hydrogen sulfide leak “as a result of the intrusion of the lava.”

    The Divine Comedy ..a long drawn out story

    The Inferno..check

    The Purgatorio..'Travis' in Purgatory

    The Paradiso..A job at TEPCO

  • US Ambassador to Israel Tells Journalists Who Report Truth of Gaza Massacre: 'Keep Your Mouths Shut'

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/05/us-ambassador-israel-tells-journalists-who-report-truth-gaza-massacre-keep-your

    Fuck You Friedman!!!

  • Deadboy

    Can someone tell me what assets vs debt, (that is like net wealth, I guess, I dunno what you call that shit) is like for the average american? Sorry I'm a bit lazy right now and kinda stupid, but I'm trying to understand something here.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      Deadboy…I linked the study that people work 38% of their lives just to pay usury. I dont know if the real weight of debt is going to show up in an asset/debt ratio. Debt is hidden in the cost of everything we buy.

      Take away the impact of the rich on average income and U.S. citizens are poor. poorer than Spain and Italy and a whole list of countries
      http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/11/news/economy/middle-class-wealth/index.html

      But Its a slim chance you can depend on any study of finance because hidden costs are everywhere and metrics have been intentionally altered to make people think they are better off than they are. The only reason life goes on in any normal looking fashion is because of global exploitation. That cant last!

      • Deadboy

        Well I was thinking of the average american's "worth". Then I thought about discarding 90% of that.

        • Deadboy

          Of course, for a more realistic representation of the average american's worth. To be generous, I'll discard only 89%.

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            average earner in the U.S. will pay $355,366 in taxes over a 40 year career, adjusted for inflation. But certain taxes will continue until you are dead. Meanwhile, fewer people can afford to own homes because naturally thats the way the real estate business goes. At some point only a few people or corporations will own all the land and everyone will rent. That day is not terribly far off. Thus real estate business is not equitable or sustainable and ends in serf like conditions

  • This just on Fox…..it's 12 noon in Hawaii, but just now Hawaii gov officials admit that hundreds of structures were destroyed just last night. My "fast/slow" analysis of daily quakes was spot on, unfortunately.

    http://www.nukepro.net/2018/06/hawaii-volcano-usgs-footage-of-lava.html

    Now I am hoping to be called "fake news" by WaPo, an obvious sign of huge success

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/05/kilauea-lava-destroys-hundreds-homes-as-explosion-spews-toxic-ash-mile-high.html

  • Deadboy

    There's a slight chance you're an ignorant moron.

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