FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) for Feb. 26, 2012 – Jan. 5, 2013

Published: September 3rd, 2012 at 5:28 pm ET
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Published: September 3rd, 2012 at 5:28 pm ET
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9,855 comments to FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) for Feb. 26, 2012 – Jan. 5, 2013

  • JHewes76 JHewes76

    Seems like the worlds "leadership" is hell-bent on destroying our planet as quickly as possible – one way or another.


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  • VanneV anne

    I think many people have nothing and are desperate. The other Arab nations could have resettled Palestinians, but chose to leave them in refuge camps to keep the wound festering for decades. If the other Arab nations supplied aid and employment the situation would have been eased. Dictators keep everyone suppressed and with nothing. Al-Qaida was formed because of the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia, which no one is talking about. Al-Zawahiri was terribly tortured in Egyptian prisons.


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    • Maggie123

      Anne, Can you help me understand a point of history? Weren't the Palestinian people already well established on lands that Western Allied forces 'determined' as good or ideal location to establish Israel, and didn't they carry out their plan without consultation with Palestinian people? And weren't Palestinians effectively 'shoved aside' to make room?

      I caught info only in last year or so that Churchill said of the Palestinians, ""I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." To Peel Commission (1937) on a Jewish Homeland in Palestine" http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill.

      Wikiquote page (first time I've seen it – wanted to get above quote right) reveals many similar atrocious attitudes, and at least one stark contradiction: "Mr. Gandhi … very high in my esteem since he stood up for the untouchables …"

      Digression re Churchill, but I hold his remark re Palestinians against the whole Western group and its scheme. Out of space – I recognize full story complex and full explanation not possible, but Thanks!


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        • Maggie123

          Thanks, Insight – Whew! Been crawling through the account. Gave myself a break by skipping upper part, started at 1915 McMahon-Hussein. Have made it through the 1948 Arab-Israeli War portion but would hate to take a pop-quiz. Names and dates not my strong suit when they're coming fast and furious – the story of the Palestinian people is packed with them compressed in time. General impression so far is that a relatively small Arab population (in context of larger Arab groups), labeled "Palestinian", has been defended but also marginalized by more powerful Arab groups. (It took a while for Palestinians to be allowed to bring their own voice to Arab League). Early impressions only – will have to spend much more time to get more clarity. Will try to locate 2 or 3 university history lectures, (different lecturers) – auditory input works well me in history as valuable supplement. Looks like marginalization started especially at end of Ottoman Empire but as said – I skipped most of that part. A seriously buffeted people – seems they didn't have strong presence on their own behalf from way back, incl within Arab world. Maybe never needed it until O.Emp. crashed. – I don't expect you to answer, am thinking 'aloud'. Knew Anne couldn't do more than point summary if that, but now see even point summary unrealistic! (I still don't expect to change my mind re Churchill's attitude. He said that kind of stuff a lot, about many different peoples. (cont …))


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          • Maggie123

            I'm not proposing Churchill is alone in obnoxious elitist persuasions, and am sure counterparts of similar attitude exist in the Arab world as well as in many other places. … Maybe we need a "people's united nations" – some international conflict resolution group that bars the doors to "ruling class" perspectives! Anyhow – thanks again!


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      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Yep. Lawrence of Arabia. He secured the deal with his British superiors – The Palestinians fought for us against Rommel in the desert in trade for regaining their statehood back which had been taken from them by the British and the Americans. But, after WWII ended and Jews began to return to Europe, Europeans were up in arms about that, so the solution was to resettle them under statehood in a newly created Israel, which meant, kicking the Palestinians out of their homes and towns and jobs and lands, since it was once a Jewish homeland before the second diaspora. And, as Anne has pointed out, neighboring Arab tribes were not interested in taking too many Palestinian refugees, though some did, especially for religious differences. While dividing up the spoils of war, not long afterwards, the US and the Brits created Iraq to secure oil for the British empire, who had coal but no oil. Iran was our ally and hated the Iraqis, which is to say, the Sunni's, which took power with Saddam Hussein who dethroned our king. A deal was struck despite our ally Iran hating the Sunni's that just came to Iraqi power. That went south eventually, too, especially after we backed a bloodthirsty despot and gave refuge after Iranians kicked him out. The whole Middle East got divided into those with the oil, our friends, and those without the oil, not so much our friends. And, then, those we betrayed ever more who became not our friends.


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        • Maggie123

          Oh, I forgot about L.ofA., Vic, I don't think he comes up on the Wiki page, but his role and the other complexities you mention are more familiar to what I've come across before. Incl that non-Jewish Europeans were a bit too enthusiastic to help Jewish peoples find 'a more appropriate' location. One new thing I picked up via the Wiki page was the post Ottoman Empire stuff – even then there was "an issue" re how the Palestinian people fit into the picture? Churchill made his infamous but telling remark in 1937, unless it's a Wikiquotes typo and should be 1947. It's way to deep into post-midnight hours here – I'm going to need to work with the many questions more in next few days. We'll see how far I get with this over time! Thanks!! :)


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Harder to find the L of A details because of age but mostly because it is one of those preferred to be forgotten events. Not only were the Palestinian openly betrayed, but Lawrence lost faith in the British Empire. They don't like the self image it portrays of Britain. It's interesting to watch such a crucial detail come and go from "authoritative" historical accounts. I've even read tracks that downplayed his role with the Arabs and blamed him for making a deal that allegedly placed the Brits in a tight moral spot. Well, we all know who writes the history, right – the winners and those who relate to or admire the winners.


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            • Maggie123

              Thanks for your additional input, Vic. Re: "… interesting to watch such a crucial detail come and go from "authoritative" historical accounts." – can be widened to generalize, "crucial details come and go from authoritative … accounts on anything, especially of political nature". Wikipedia a case in point!

              I've been stunned on occasion to return to a
              Wikip page months after first finding it, expecting to review what I learned earlier, only to read an entirely new "take" on my subject! Since then if I think it's likely to matter to me, I use the 'print' feature and create a PDF when the info seems accurate.

              In case of Palestinian state Wiki page, I assume all that is given is accurate. And it did give me time-line geopolitical info I'd not accessed before. What may be essential for full understanding, however, may be omitted. This too, is not a 'new' practice in publishing. But Wikip is of course more open to revision.

              BTW, IMO the value of Wikipedia, it's concept and output, cannot be over-stated. But I also keep it's ease of 'adjusted info' in mind. :)


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Churchill's remarks spoken like a true Colonialist thru and thru. Of course, he also suffered from what is now called bipolar syndrome, so he put his foot into his own mouth often enough as well and wasn't always as self monitoring at times as he could be at others for a world leader.


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  • GlowInTheDark GlowInTheDark

    BBC take on Sandy. If anyone (non-uk users) is on proxy or have get_iplayer, watch/download it from here.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01p122s/Superstorm_USA_Caught_on_Camera/


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  • 16Penny 16Penny

    U.S. power grid vulnerable to attack:

    A report warns that deaths wouldn't be immediate but would rise as blackouts lasted for weeks or months.

    http://www.pressherald.com/news/nationworld/in-focus-terrorist-attacks_2012-11-15.html


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  • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

    WOW! If this is real, it's likely the lead story of the year…

    “Anonymous” Winning Cyber-War Over Israel

    650 Israeli Sites Hacked, Email Addresses, Passwords Leaked, Databases Wiped Clean

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/11/17/anonymous-winning-cyber-war-over-israel/


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    • WindorSolarPlease

      Hi AFTERSHOCK

      I just want everyone to try to get along, I want peace for everyone, maybe that's to much to ask for.

      We have children in arms way, just be adults and act like it. All sides put down the weapons for the life of the kids.

      I'm mad at the ones in charge from ALL sides. Stop playing war games or any type of games, get on with better constructive things. Grow Up, Learn to Get Along!!!

      Doesn't anyone ever listen to a Grandma anymore? Well it's time!!

      Work on Protecting the Children
      Love & Peace..Just Do It


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      • Maggie123

        WSP – I'm so with you! And no – women elders, functioning as wisdom keepers, are not listened to within national political processes. "High civilization" from available recorded history does not seem to include this role for women elders, even though it's my understanding that societies of so-called "lesser civilization achievement" have women elder wisdom built into their political process. Grand "achievements" such as tall towers and games of power-over, not to mention rockets to the moon, are rather the historical norm. Interesting to note that this corresponds with "hierarchical" and "patriarchal" authority built into the systems.

        I'm not suggesting a "gender power war"! I've never liked "women's groups" as a place to hang out – much prefer involvement, contribution, from everybody – both genders, all ages, etc! In fact, "patriarchal" social structures main and deep flaw is not "guys" – it's the the 'hierarchical' formality that seems to have developed with it. IF hierarchical enthusiasms were dropped, *all* voices would be respected, honored – as would all individual rights to "blossom" into each person's unique talent and gift.

        As to my descrip in note to Aftershock – the 'war-hawk' set – I think the scene could easily include representation from many nations. The mentality of "world is mine to control" is old as "civilization", and, IMO, it's linked to a 'hierarchy' thing. :)


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        • Maggie123

          WSP – Your post and my reply caused me to think a bit more about Anonymous. IMO, – so far – Anonymous plays a role that can help. By the way they set themselves up, they don't easily fall into hierarchical rigidity – which leads to patronage, and to individuals vying for, and clinging to, personal power. (Some group organizations that emerge as forces for needed change do lapse, eventually, into hierarchical rigidity.)

          To me, Anon does not represent a "new way to organize society" – they only exist because secrecy, non-transparency, exists. They are a resistance movement – one made of people with skills appropriate and needed for the times.

          Interesting that this popped to mind for me out of the above. Dialogue is great!! :)


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      • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

        agree with your sentiments WindorSolarPlease. But given the disproportionate 'resources' being used to decimate the native population, it's no longer a question of who the aggressor is. The only ones still parroting the party line are doing so from the comfort of bunkers. We are all about to witness great change…


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      • 16Penny 16Penny

        The great zohan agrees! I just want to cut Hair, he just wants to sell shoes.


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      • WindorSolarPlease

        War games, all the other games people play, corruption, public being lied to. These are all attempts to Get or Stay in Control. No one is right or better when they do these things. It should be about making this world a better and safer world, instead of creating havoc.
        What is it going to be, creating havoc..or..doing positive things?


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    • Maggie123

      Aftershock – A scroll down through length includes posts that appear to confirm; sites are named as 'down' or 'still working'. I'm not sure "winning" is accurate description, but seems a very good show and Anon has at least briefly successfully run interference – like sticking foot out to trip a runner?

      I was concerned at 'wiping data clean' not sure it's wise to get rid of data for various reasons, one being level of ire toward Anon. But then thought targeted sites would/will have back up,
      In any case – so far as I can see – ideal action, beautifully bold and harms no living breathing being.

      Anon demonstrates global awareness of, and activist intent toward, the plight of Palestinian people. On public stage, Anon demonstrates determination of "people scattered everywhere" to confront the injustices of the Gaza population's story.

      US MSM on the other hand, shamefully parrots official lines instead of asking bold questions. It presents, (outright or by hint or implication) that "the problem" is "Israeli people vs. Palestinian people". Not a surprise but IMO, after several years groundswell citizen accusation at a non-functioning MS press, I'd think they'd feel "inauthentic" as journalists and would begin to correct their habits!.

      Anon also demonstrates bold support to those held in Gaza (the equivalent of an ethnic ghetto/prison) – a 'spirit lifter' which surely is needed by families there!

      Hope everyone involved stays safe.


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      • Maggie123

        Further to wider issues in the region: MSM not only misrepresents the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but it looks as if with increasing frequency it parrots official misrepresentation of "Iranian problem".

        War after war has followed a period of misleading "patter" on an intentionally targeted scapegoat nations. If not war, then other misleading, public-hypnotizing, patter (i.e. anti-Soviet and related witch hunts of cold war.)

        I keep picturing a room full of stern, authoritative, "world belongs to us", war-hawks. They have a world map – they use it for a chess board. They have whole groups of "little toy people" as expendable pawns – many of these babes-in-arms.

        They imagine what they'd like to see, they study their map, they consider the possibilities, the locations. One among them picks up a pointer stick and taps it's end in the Middle East, more or less atop Syria/Iran. He says: "And *there*, gentlemen, is where we can stage our battle – agreed?" All nod.

        They do nothing to help resolve Israeli/Palestinian tensions humanely, peacefully, with justice. It's helpful to their interests to have a super-heated hot-spot near by, helps keep everyone stirred up, anxious, and mistrustful of one another.

        NOte: IMO in recent years they've picked off Iraq, Libya, etc. – as above: "They do nothing to help resolve (fill in blank) tensions humanely, peacefully, with justice." They gain LOTS of resource control and tons of wealth!


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      • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

        not sure of the claims they're (anon) making. Unless this was an inside job (too sensitive to elaborate further), I'd have assumed the target(s) were capable of adequately defending themselves from such attacks. Assuming their claims are true, you're going to hear lots more about this.

        Keep in mind, there's a big push to justify clamping-down on the net. The story that precedes mine (16penny post) is an indicator that they're moving to justify putting-in kill switches. Though I fully agree with this non-violent action, such actions will be spun into justification to further shackle the net.

        Regarding MSM: they're fully under the control of the 'holy ones' and incapable of any objectivity; unless, of course, it's 'sanctioned' from on high. There's still a disproportionate amount of the citizenry who're getting their daily ration of gruel from the propagandist. Given the nature of 'change', this 'silent majority' is equally susceptible the influence of 'dynamic elements'. The uninformed can be willing participants in collective violence against innocents, but they're easily co-opted towards progressive efforts. So, for all of MSM's deceptive machinations, we have only to remain emotionally 'intelligent' and we'll find our way out of this nightmare.


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        • Maggie123

          So – if I understand you – you're suggesting that people like me who might say "this is great news!" are irrelevant (may be irrelevant, if news is not authentic). What may be happening is "setting the stage", laying ground work, to justify the kill switches you mention.

          Stage setting, ground-work laying – same strategy as I claim is involved re the Iran "problem". (It's not my insight of course – many geopolitical scholars have said this. I just want to get 'doubt' going in minds of any who're ready to attack Iran and/or let Israel/Palestine blow-up.)

          RE MSM – only a few days ago I caught a discussion on-line focused on annual income of big media 'presenters', (news anchors, etc). I'd never thought about it. I guess they're paid very well indeed, increasing their reluctance to balk within their own organizations. Sigh! I just want them to begin turning! :)

          Excellent point too re "remaining emotionally intelligent" Among other habits, "yearning for better – house, car, world", and the emotions that go with it, can cause any of us to be misled – or let ourselves be misled. Advertising and propaganda exist because they work! (Obviously the Anon report has qualities that tantalize my 'yearnings'!) Point so very well taken! Thanks! :)


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          • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

            not "irrelevant" Maggie123; perhaps naive? Keep in mind, the 'game' is fraught with many turns. Much is at stake…on all sides. I'm not dismissing anon's efforts or claims. (Remember, I did post the link to this story.) More critical is that we sus-out what is real from the realizable.

            I've learned long ago, good intentions are only valued by those – with – good intentions. This world was inadvertently placed into the hands of psychotics. If we're to leave anything to our children, such effort will come at the price of our very lives. Good news is, as psychotics are generally all about themselves, once they realize we've had enough, they'll scatter in hopes we'll return to the fields…


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            • Maggie123

              Thanks Aftershock – yes, a maze – was going to use "of mirrors", then brain got interested in implications based on "a mirror reflects back". Won't pursue that here!

              But related, IMO, awareness of our 'enabling', even 'complicity' is valuable – IMO critical. Allowing ourselves to be misled is rooted in normal psychology but if we aren't alert to it, our vulnerability is much greater.

              IMO the 'tricks' are known or knowable. But harder as you say to sus-out when setting is public even global with multiple players of immense power, and even groups rising up to counter the powerful have 'normal human population' statistical odds to become the new oppressors.

              Some, perhaps most, who demonstrate sociopathic, psychopathic, behaviors can – if called out early enough, be "turned back". Most children who are bullies are acting out of "felt" deep insecurity of one cause or another (20 yrs teaching – maybe 1 exception and I didn't know that kid's full story). Not sure anyone who's been a "successful power player" at public/political/career level for most of adult life, can be turned. People like John Perkins do 180 turns but they often also describe a 'niggling awareness' was with them all along, or a "pre-power player" disposition that genuinely liked people.. … just musing here. … apologies for wandering off … THANK YOU FOR YOUR 'ON TOPIC' THOUGHTS! :)


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    Made me dizzy, can't imagine what those people feel like

    Hurricane Sandy Gas Line. Queens NYC

    Published on Nov 2, 2012 by Dacktyl

    CLICK>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMlb8JPIGLw


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    • Maggie123

      WSP – zippy music makes it even harder to imagine what the people felt but hope for many it was a one-time experience, or at least good for a few days. I think I'd have tried hard to figure out a way to go without gas for my car (different if it's needed for a generator) !! :)


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      • WindorSolarPlease

        Maggie123, I think we need cars that are reasonable in cost, that can run off of something else besides gas and oil.

        Also, a home that is radiation proof, solar, water proof, tornado proof, sink proof, and so on. Now I'm dreaming.


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        • Maggie123

          WSP – You've reminded me! Couple of months ago I was browsing net for info on golf carts as elec transport and came across same thing dressed up as NEVs. "Neighborhood electric vehicles" – think I've got the name right. Found them by accident. Better than golf carts in terms of weather conditions, etc. Some were like little 'trucks'. Problem was street legal status. In the US, their legality varies by state. They aren't legal for highway anywhere as their top speed is about 25mph.

          Personally, I'd have to cross an interstate to get to town – but have meant to pursue the idea further. AND today in town I saw a 3-wheeler that I'm pretty sure may be an NEV. It was 'golf cartish' in appearance but clearly meant as personal transport. I meant to get home and get back to NEV research, but got busy with other stuff .. now your post reminds me!

          Another nifty thing about the NEV's I found was that even new, they weren't nearly as pricey as lower-cost new cars.

          Usually I bookmark finds like the NEV site I tripped across months ago but for some reason didn't. I've had trouble tracking it down again. One afternoon I did find an 'electric vehicle' website that included everything from personal transport to mini-buses that could be used where I live to offer "bus" transport, (village to town). Didn't bookmark that site either, might have been UK. Thanks for reminder! Yep re homes too – retrofit or build – both too costly given econ system!


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    AMAZING..PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE

    Occupy Sandy Recovery: Far Rockaway Nov 3, 2012

    Published on Nov 3, 2012 by LMNOP Person

    CLICK>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A44z33fSGqE


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    • Maggie123

      WSP – you are so absolutely right on! BEAUTIFUL STORY and then some! Exactly what should be – Nat'l guard, police, participating with all the people in spirit of community: "We are unstoppable, another world is possible"! I'm so glad you posted this and that I checked it out! THANK YOU!! :)


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    • Radio VicFromOregon

      WSP, wonderful. Just to make fun tonight at a few folks, but, in all sincerity, i believe i spied some Americorp volunteers right there in that little video and they didn't look like Obama's Nazi youth to me. But, i'll keep my eyes peeled ;-) Thanks for sharing this!


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      • WindorSolarPlease

        VicFromOregon, Unfortunately, there is still areas where people haven't gotten the help they need. People are struggling there.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Yes. It will be an incomplete response for many reasons, including plain old logistical ones. What i hope can come from this sad situation is an understanding that these storms will only happen more frequently and increasingly bad. Not all of them all of the time, which naysayers use as proof that the Earth is unharmed by the over burning of carbon into the atmosphere. But, regardless of theories, it is already occurring and will continue as the new normal. Getting some better planning for such emergencies, ANY emergencies, that can include local people will go a long way to making sure so many do not go without the assistance they need. The video you linked to, i think, proves the case for local community response when it can manage it. My other point, though, is that as local youth volunteer to commit their time and undergo training to be emergency responders, they are viewed as neo-nazi's. I just couldn't let those claims go unremarked.


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          • WindorSolarPlease

            Hi VicFromOregon

            I see nothing wrong in the youth and adults helping others, or anyone getting an education in emergency training. Being prepared is a smart thing to do.

            Sorry if you thought I was claiming something else. I think it's wonderful and a positive thing when others help others.


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  • arclight arclight

    Israeli forces in the Golan Heights have fired artillery shells at Syrian troops in the second direct clash between the hostile neighbors since the Syrian crisis began in March 2011.

    Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:8AM GMT (just now)
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/11/18/272964/israel-fires-artillery-shells-at-syria/

    al-quadai will be bound by oath to help fellow muslims, isreal is playing with fire.. hope they have their reactors (medical etc as well), its just the size of wales.. tiny
    one hit and its the end for isreali produce..
    good reason to shut em all down and not build anymore..
    isreal has to back off..
    i suppose the elite warmongers will be able to live in the usa? what about the rest of the population, the settlers,
    isreal has to back off..

    they are trying to stop the news getting out

    Two Palestinians have been killed and 10 others injured in airstrikes on the northern Gaza Strip, where at least 48 Palestinians have lost their lives in four days of relentless Israeli attacks.

    In addition, six journalists were injured when Israeli missiles targeted the media building in Gaza City, medics said.
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/11/18/272966/israeli-airstrikes-kill-2-in-n-gaza/

    from press tv ticker

    BREAKING NEWS: ISRAEL GAZA ATTACKS 2 kids including a toddler killed in Israeli airstrike on northern Gaza


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  • VanneV anne

    “11:30 P.M. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke with a number of foreign leaders over the weekend, telling them he would be prepared for an immediate, comprehensive ceasefire with Hamas if the latter agrees to halt all rocket fire from Gaza….”
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/live-blog-idf-prepares-for-ground-invasion-as-gaza-offensive-enters-fourth-day-1.478505


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    • Maggie123

      Anne – sure hope something positive comes of this. From what I understand, if I were Hamas I'd find it very hard to trust Netanyahu.


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      • VanneV anne

        If your attitude is the prevailing one, we will all soon be dead from WWIII.


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        • Maggie123

          A comment I seldom hear – maybe never before! A 2-part thought. I do hope something positive comes of this; the pressures are barely imaginable.


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          • Radio VicFromOregon

            M123, may i interpret your plea based upon all your other posts on this and other topics? – As hard as it is to imagine, may all sides somehow get past their mutual distrust long enough to stop killing for a while and take some small step towards a lasting peace?


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            • Maggie123

              Vic – you may. This ferocious clinging to power – some moments it seems that right beside it is a 'space' into which with one step, not even needing a stretched out leg, a person can step. And in so doing – enters a place of infinite ampleness. Maybe Rumi's field. Those steeped in dreams of mega-authority over whole nations, even empires, have engaged in their craft for such a very long time, they now embody it. Such a small step is impossible. I think I will practice it for them. :)


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              • Radio VicFromOregon

                Yes! Brilliant idea! M123, practice it for them, open the field cuz you know how, then they can perhaps step in because it can occur to them in a moment that we can not determine for them, but in which an alternative suddenly seems desirable and obtainable. This will not be solved only by physical human standards, but it is required that they participate.

                And, because you seek new sources of info, here is my favorite news website.

                http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=9138

                This particular link is an interview with Phyllis Bennis regarding what she believes started this latest escalation. She made a statement that history begins when YOU start the clock, meaning it is quite subjective. In Human Communication theory it's called "sequencing". Often, whenever there is conflict, both parties believe the problems began at completely different times, so they can't even agree on where to begin, which is why cease fires are needed as a first step. As a teacher and a mother, you would be very well familiar with this "she started it! Huh eh, you started it!" phenomenon ;-)


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          • Insight

            I would say Israel is just a catalyst for a broader agenda by other nations, however Israel will be consumed by this war and so will Palestine. I believe the main reason for this upcoming war is to destroy America.
            The interdependence among countries in the world creates a devastating position for all involved in a modern world war. Poor nations will struggle with famine; their health conditions will deteriorate. In this war because of the scope of nations involved eventually most countries will have to deal with food and water shortages.
            When transport and communication are disrupted or destroyed that makes people across distant countries unable to interact and cooperate for mutual benefit.
            Exchange of knowledge, goods and services among people cease or become minimal.
            Environmental and ecology problems will threaten sustainable life across the entire globe rather than being limited to particular geographical areas as a result of bio-weapons, chemicals, bombs and nuclear contamination.
            Let it suffice to say World War III will be far worse than anyone can imagine.


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            • Maggie123

              Insight – I hesitate to reply without extended thought but after at least a pause I would say: Not sure about 'other nations' (not sure a list could be made, not sure there is 'unique collusion', but maybe that's not what you meant.) Also am not sure about intent to 'destroy America'.

              There is definitely something historically different about the US – that it asserted itself across the most favorable latitudes of a continent and was isolated by oceans gave it uncommon opportunity. That in strong part it "meant" to represent a new vision of human possibility was/is inspiring. But from its beginning it carried elements that lacked, or did not understand, the more noble intention. And from its beginning it also used "end justifies means" strategies, gaining territories by brute force while espousing noble goal, (the 'forked tongue'). The inconsistencies can be understood, but don't justify. The language needed parallels "old world" empire descriptions. (So and so needed/wanted land/resources, was under pressure from so and so, factious scheming, etc.)

              A world war would be insanity of course. If it were to develop, much else that you catalog – loss of critical infrastructure and delivery systems, with resulting unimaginable misery, seems likely. Southern hemisphere peoples might experience it differently if they can stay out of the brouhaha.

              Recommended via ENEer WSP: http://youtu.be/A44z33fSGqE – spirit of a different possibility. :)


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              • Insight

                You are such a gentle spirit Maggie. Wanting to rehabilitate the power elite you would march them, following your small steps, into an age of discretion and noble deeds. You would divide them along philosophical lines, push them apart, and then try to realign the pieces into a new and different power structure ruled by peace on one side and harmony on the other. How sad it is that the nations of the world are not ruled by gentle spirits.


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              • Insight

                I found this online and even if one is not religious it is an absolutely amazing and interesting alignment of dates.
                "America will change into the Mystery Babylon when this event occurs!
                One of the most notable parallels between Judah’s fall and America’s fall is found in Jeremiah 39:2. In that verse, we read that Jerusalem was broken up 11 years after King Zedekiah was placed in power.
                “In the eleventh year of Zedekiah, in the fourth month, on the ninth day of the month, the city was penetrated.” Jer. 39:2
                The mention of Jerusalem’s fall after eleven years is very key. In light of the events of the recent election, I applied the same formula to America.
                If we use the same variable of eleven years and go backwards in time from where we are now, we arrive at the benchmark of the September 11 attacks.
                When I applied the rest of the formula to America, (which was brought to my attention by one of my listeners, thanks M.S.) we see something very interesting.

                Moving forward from the date of September 11, 2001 and using the calculation found in the verse above (Jeremiah 39:2,)

                1. September 11, 2001 + 11 years = September 11, 2012.
                2. September 11, 2012 + 4 months = January 11, 2013
                3. January 11, 2013 + 9 days = January 20, 2013

                We arrive at the date of January 20, 2013!
                Ladies and Gentlemen , January 20, 2013 happens to be the same day as the coming Presidential Inauguration!"


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                • Maggie123

                  Insight – It also happens to be the birthday of one of my dear and most gentle friends, may she and all others live long and prosper in the deepest meaning of the word! :)


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                • Insight

                  Prior to the following passage the nations that participate in WW3 bring their vast armies into service.
                  Revelation 9:17 “And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.”
                  Horses= warplanes ridden/flown into battle.
                  The pilots have “fire ” coming out in front of the plane (breastplate) as missiles.
                  The heads of the horses/planes are the pilots, like lions seeking prey and devouring what they destroy. Some pilot helmets resemble "lion manes" like the Alpha 200 Dual Visor Helicopter Helmet.
                  Out of the mouths of the pilots are commands to fire upon the enemy which issue forth from the “mouth” of the warplane. John did not know if the warplanes he was seeing were single living creatures or not; composed of part man and part machine. He had nothing in his life experience to compare it with so he described it the best way possible. The meaning was "sealed" until the end of times. That's because no one could possibly understand it's meaning until it is revealed to the people living in the end of days.


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  • VanneV anne

    IV. President Obama graduates his first class of Internal Army!
    This cadre will be under the control of FEMA.
    NEWS BRIEF: "Obama's Internal Army Graduates First Class", It Makes Sense.com, November 13, 2012
    "On September 13, 2012, the Dept of Homeland Security graduated its first class of FEMA Corps youth, aka the Homeland Youth. The federal government calls them FEMA Corps. But they conjure up memories of the Hitler Youth of 1930’s Germany. Regardless of their name, Obama’s Dept of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth! Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s ‘Youth Corps’, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country!’….."
    http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/ [Nov. 13, 2012]13, 2012ovember 13, 2012]


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    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Well, Anne, i have worked with lots of Americorp volunteers and one thing they ALL have in common is their passion to empower others, their distain for violence, and their commitment to making life just and fair for everyone. So, i think that Hitler Youth is a stretch here. I question this source, especially their lack of firsthand knowledge on this subject. it is speculation at most. On the other hand, plenty of people think that the Peace Corp is a nefarious branch of the CIA intent on spying and westernizing third world countries. And, Conservatives absolutely loath its existence as a commie plot. So, i guess the maxim is true that "no good deed goes unpunished".


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      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        NGO's are the perfect mechanisms for infiltration of the populace.
        The people are willing to comply..help being what it is.
        Then..comes corporate/goverment..loans from the IMF..etc.. and foreign contractor to handle natural resources,etc.
        The money never quite makes in..to the hands of the population but remains in the hands of the foreign contractors.
        The people remain poor..thus insuring a further need for NGO's ..etc.


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        • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

          And some even receive money from the government! Such as the Transportation Secretary's son in Egypt (Young Republicans and Young Democrats). Hmmm, what were they up to in Egypt that required government money? I don't consider them NGOs.


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          I take a little umbrage that so many here think people who give of their time or work for a pittance seem to have no intelligence, no ability to direct their lives, no awareness of their circumstances and are infinity malleable to the machinations and controls of their superiors. Evil doesn't triumph because good people take action. Evil triumphs because good people do nothing.

          How about an actual example of say, NGO's helping out with the Sandy aftermath stealing away the self determination of citizens in the community they are attending, eroding their civil rights, and lulling them into an involuntary state of apathy?

          Any and every circumstance, institution, or gathering becomes an opportunity for equality and sharing or for control and manipulation. Fascism rises and thrives, not because corporations or governments or citizens exist. Fascism rises and thrives because people choose it.


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      • Insight

        "Hitler was elected to office, while a full-throttled economic crisis bloomed at hand – the Great Depression. Slowly, he seized the controls of government power, person by person, department by department, bureaucracy by bureaucracy. The children of German citizens were at first, encouraged to join a Youth Movement in his name where they were taught exactly what to think. Later, they were required to do so.
        How did he get people on his side? He did it by promising jobs to the jobless, money to the money-less, and rewards for the military-industrial complex. He did it by indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all, better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in the country. He did it with a compliant media and he did this all in the name of justice and …. . … change. And the people surely got what they voted for.

        If you think I am exaggerating, look it up. It's all there in the history books."


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        • Radio VicFromOregon

          I humbly disagree Insight, to some degree. All governments promise these things. Hilter took advantage of this state, yes, because in such times people look for others to blame. He incited, yes. But, what Hitler appealed to most was the hatred and paranoia that resides in all human hearts.


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          • Insight

            Those disapproving of Hitlers agenda were mainly forced into silence by threat of death. That is different from other governments that promise change. Hitler had an
            outlined plan that was followed to achieve his tight fisted control of Germany and one of the prime objectives was to indoctrinate the children to his demand for control. Adolf Hitler believed that the support of the youth was vital to the future of the third Reich and aimed, through the Hitler Youth program, to produce a generation of loyal supporters of Nazi views.


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  • VanneV anne

    71: Dense steam plume detected at Chirpoi volcano in Kuril Islands
    Posted on November 18, 2012
    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/71-dense-steam-plume-detected-at-chirpoi-volcano-in-kuril-islands/

    Number Nine: 6.1 magnitude earthquake strikes Tonga region of south Pacific
    Posted on November 17, 2012

    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/number-nine-6-1-magnitude-earthquake-strikes-tonga-region-of-south-pacific/

    6.4 magnitude earthquake strikes Kuril Islands: 8th major quake in eight days
    Posted on November 17, 2012

    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/6-4-magnitude-earthquake-strikes-kuril-islands-8th-major-quake-in-eight-days/


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  • VanneV anne

    igns in the sun, moon, and stars and upon Earth, a distress of nations with perplexity: massive explosion seen on the sun
    Posted on November 18, 2012
    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/signs-in-the-sun-moon-and-stars-and-upon-earth-a-distress-of-nations-with-perplexity-massive-explosion-seen-on-the-sun/


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    WWW 111..is the goal?
    Fear of others unlike ourselves..a 'certain' lack of diplomacy through the centuries..has brought us to this.

    Humanity simply must evolve…or perish.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    PS.Correction. That would be World War 3…yet another chapter of ridiculum by the human race.

    Is it a mental deficiency of the species?..a meomory loss issue?
    Mankind has no long term or collective memory..thus causing a failure to digest history…and a failure to see…beyond a crumby vision of/for the future.

    Sad.


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  • VanneV anne

    Obama’s Secret Directive On Cybersecurity Prompts Lawsuit

    Lawyers say ruling may enable “military deployment within the United States”
    http://www.infowars.com/obamas-secret-directive-on-cybersecurity-prompts-lawsuit/


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  • VanneV anne

    “10:45 P.M. Hamas is preventing dozens of foreign nationals and journalist from leaving the Gaza Strip into Israel. According to one journalist stationed in Gaza, a group of 22 foreign journalists and Turkish nationals working at the Gaza Strip Red Crescent asked the Hamas authorities for permission to leave the coastal enclave but were denied. According to the reports of news agencies, Israel announced that the Erez Crossing would be open to foreign nationals crossing from Gaza to Israel. (Haaretz)…”
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/live-blog-idf-prepares-for-ground-invasion-as-gaza-offensive-enters-fourth-day-1.478505


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  • VanneV anne

    “Israel has improved its missile defense systems, but is facing a more heavily armed Hamas. Israel estimates militants possess 12,000 rockets, including more sophisticated weapons from Iran and from Libyan stockpiles plundered after the fall of Muammar Qaddafi's regime there last year.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11/18/war-looms-over-gaza-as-signs-mount-possible-israeli-invasion/#ixzz2CZvYSyJv


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    "Israeli hardliners joke about the periodic need to decimate each new generation of Palestinian militants as “mowing the grass,” a process underway again in new bombardments of Gaza. This ugly metaphor has also penetrated the think-tank world of Official Washington, as ex-CIA analyst Elizabeth Murray learned.

    In early 2010, one of Washington DC’s most prestigious think tanks was holding a seminar on the Middle East which included a discussion of Israel’s December 2008-January 2009 assault on Gaza which killed about 1,300 Palestinians. When the death toll was mentioned, one expert on the panel smiled enigmatically and intoned: “It’s unfortunate, but every once in a while you have to mow the lawn.”

    The remark, which likened killing hundreds of men, women and children – many of them noncombatants – with trimming the grass, was greeted with a light tittering around the room, which was filled with some of Washington’s most elite, highly educated and well-paid Middle East experts. Not a single one objected to the panelist’s black humor.

    On the contrary, several analysts and experts were grinning at the reference to Israel’s strategy of mounting periodic attacks on the Palestinians to cull each new generation of militants. Such is the nonchalance of Washington’s policy-advising cognoscenti toward the ongoing and systematic genocide of Gaza’s oppressed population. (…)

    http://truth-out.org/news/item/12801-likening-palestinians-to-blades-of-grass


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    • JHewes76 JHewes76

      "Militants", you say? I thought they were peace activists.

      "Non Combatives"? Maybe they should stop operating from apartment buildings, schools, hospitals.. maybe they should stop hiding amongst the women and children (and reporters).

      This conflict has TWO sides. The killing stops when BOTH sides stop the bullshit.


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      • JHewes76 JHewes76

        They must have a set of nuts the size of raisins.


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        • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

          The article is not about the size of someone's set of nuts, but about absolutely disgusting wording when describing the killing of people as "mowing the lawn".

          And yes I'm quite aware of the fact that every conflict has two sides.
          I picked mine.


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          • JHewes76 JHewes76

            I agree that mowing the grass is ignorant to say or imply. If you want to fight and kill Jews, fine. Get up front and duke it out. Don't hide among women and children then complain because women and children die. BTW.. Jewish innocents die too. Pick your side.. pick your nose. I don't care. Personally I hope the nuke the crap out of each other because I'm sick and tired of hearing about the entire Middle East region. They just ain't happy unless they're fighting someone.


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    • Maggie123

      Bread and Butter – re: "greeted with a light tittering around the room, which was filled with some of Washington’s most elite, highly educated and well-paid Middle East experts. Not a single one objected to the panelist’s black humor."

      KEY WORDS within a key observation you make:
      "Not a single one objected "

      This "stay with established protocols" is rife through out all levels of our, possibly most, societies.

      Until humanity's individuals learn to stand on integrity, and to 'call out' our sisters and brothers, we are each "the weakest link".

      Calling out can be done in a respectful but firm manner. It can at times be done by question, "Are you sure you meant to say that?"

      I view our typical silence (which may/may not be covered by nervous smiles and tittering) as evidence of "co-dependent" behaviors. Co-dependent behaviors are usually thought of as problematic in a one-on-one relationships. I believe they are problematic in any relationship, that they're rooted in our "fear" of losing prestige or membership benefits in any group to which we belong, be it group of two, or group of many more.


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    • Radio VicFromOregon

      BnB, thanks for doing your homework! And, Golda Meir's famously oft repeated line –
      the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian". As a white/Comanche i feel the hatred in those words since the same line was used on that lineage of my own people by my other lineage – "the only good injun is a dead injun".

      Thought you might find this short interview interesting since this topic moves you enough to research it for the deeper roots.

      http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=9138


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  • JHewes76 JHewes76

    What's with Bush & Obama totally bypassing Congress and ruling by decree? Where is the Legislative Branch? We are supposed to have checks and balances… The House & Senate should bring these issues up for full debate and vote. We are just a nose hair away from Dictatorship


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  • JHewes76 JHewes76

    Is there anyone in this forum who does not hate Jews, or at least is neutral? I'm not pro-jewish, or anti-jewish.. just seems like a lot of "jew bashing" going on for a socially conscious group.


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    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Hi,
      I don't hate Jews. I'm totally indifferent towards all relgions.
      I just don't agree with the current politics of Israel's government.

      That's an important difference.


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    • Maggie123

      Hi JHewes76 – wanted to touch on your question.

      A major, *major* problem IMO is failure to use language that distinguishes between a general population and a faction within that population with which one may with all validity have strong disagreement. I've thought ENE has been doing pretty well to identify factions, leaders, national policies, etc when voicing strong objection. At least, doing pretty well compared to general public discourse.

      Strong objection to Israeli policies toward Palestinians is NOT "about Jews". It is about a fairly powerful government having ghettoized a people, restricted their access to resources, and even bull-dozed orchards that had supported families, as well as bull-dozing homes.

      I don't think anyone here is prepared to give Palestinian non-retaliatory aggression, when it happens, a "free pass". I think there's strong understanding of why Israelis feel extremely vulnerable generally – both for their history and their location.

      But there also seems strong opinion that a 2nd population, Palestinian, now suffers more deeply. There seems strong opinion that the entire "mess" must be resolved so that each population feels some equity in human community, and can hope for basic psychological comfort in day to day life.

      (Or so it seems to me.)


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    • WindorSolarPlease

      Hi JHewes76

      I'm on the side of Love and Peace. Not every Country is going to be friends. However they can, act like adults being cordial and polite, working together, or they can sit in their own corners until they can behave together, instead of fighting it out causing more pain and hate.

      There are many religions and I find them all interesting.

      I believe in what I believe, I don't expect others to believe what I do.

      We all should be able to have a free choice in what we believe in or not believe in. I might not believe or agree as you, but I respect everyone's "Free Choice".


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    • arclight arclight

      s there anyone in this forum who does not hate Jews, or at least is neutral? I'm not pro-jewish, or anti-jewish.. just seems like a lot of "jew bashing" going on for a socially conscious group.

      great comment!
      i think it is a generalisation and a bit of an insult to say "jew bashing"
      is not supporting al-quaida in syria "moslim bashing"
      the religious card is lost when you look at the settlement program ..

      i was talking to a jewish friend whose son is in the army and whose daughter is in line for re-conscription if theis "war on terror" goes wrong.. he was not into fully engaing in the conversation but at no time thought i was jew bashing.. and he was worried about the outcome too!

      the problen with the use of the IDF is a strategy option
      the people who order the IDF to these actions are in the frame here, jew or no!

      there is no difference between tony blir and netanyahu, they are both war criminals and are responsible for allowing excess on the battlefield..

      and the strategy of hitting all the press offices killing and maiming is obviously not aimed at the muslims per-se (fer Russian Federation)

      netenyahu is unpeeling all the stops on a full scale regional war that could engulf europe..

      egypt has a million man standing army, well equiped with the latest weaponary from the usa and the whole mid east is unhinged imo

      being irish i can see a connection with isreal and ireland and isreal is doing everything wrong imo
      peace


      Report comment

  • JHewes76 JHewes76

    "Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity" – George Carlin.

    You want peace? Stop fighting.


    Report comment

  • Sickputer

    "A family of five — including three young children — found dead in a van in central Japan are believed to have been a suicide, a police official said Friday.
    The five — a man and a woman in their 30s and three boys aged five, seven and 10 — were found late Thursday in the vehicle at a parking lot in Fujinomiya, Shizuoka prefecture, said the official at the Fujinomiya Police Department."

    http://newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/article/99653.php

    SP: What a tragedy. Wonder if they left a note? Expect more On The Beach checkouts from tormented citizens suffering from radiation poisoning. I wish they had tried to emigrate.


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  • Sickputer

    US troops and radar arrays being deployed to Australia. Leon Panetta spoke these words of warning for the Yellow Peril:

    "We’ve made clear that one of our key focuses is to rebalance the Pacific.."

    http://www.airforcetimes.com/mobile/news/2012/11/air-force-australia-rotations-111812w

    SP: These lucky soldiers get a head start reaching On the Beach. Beats duking it out with the Taliban. This rotation should be wildly popular with career Air Force folks.


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  • Sickputer

    An unidentified government spokesperson reported today they have secured architectural bids for a Tokyo landmark Olympic building guaranteed to sway the IOC in selecting Tokyo for the 2020 games.

    Earlier reports that the new amphitheater design was shaped like a bicycle helmet is incorrect. The new design incorporates a huge inverted nuclear containment dome.

    "This unique design will funnel radioactive fallout from rain through a giant central HEPA filter and provide clean water for the Olympic Pool" said the spokesperson.

    The spokesperson had to cut the interview short because of a massive nosebleed problem, but left saying if Japan failed for the 2020 bid they would try again for 2024.


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  • norbu norbu

    Welcome to the 2020 games. New events this year- corium blob toss, Meltdown reactor run, A 12 mile radioactive swim, Fuel rod relay, Welcome to the Radioactive Games where everyone has a glowing chance.


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    • richard richard

      Fuel rod relay. Brilliant. In training for 'decommissioning' of fuku-d.

      And what's that game where they sweep the floor in front of the divet. I can see that as an essential fuku-d skill as well :)

      I'm really loving the olympium games.


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  • VanneV anne

    Iranian leader denies Holocaust

    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has courted further controversy by explicitly calling the Nazi Holocaust of European Jewry a "myth".
    "’They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above God, religions and the prophets,’ he said.
    “On live TV, he called for Europe or North America – even Alaska – to host a Jewish state, not the Middle East. …
    “The president sparked international outrage in October when he said Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4527142.stm


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  • VanneV anne

    I don't condone every action taken by the Israeli army. There are Israeli's who quit the army because of incidents they've seen. But I don't condone the actions of Hamas whose actions and political aspirations put their citizens at risk. The Israeli's pulled out of Gaza and gave away the land and all their greenhouses, buildings, and other industries there. And still Hamas, with the rockets supplied by Iran and Libya, keeps attacking Israel.

    I am part Cherokee, but I don't claim the land stolen by the US government from my ancestors. In my own individual case I was allowed to attend the best university in the US available to women at that time. (Of course, no one know, including me, of my Cherokee heritage at that time). Individually, I am a pacifist. But I do think that people have a right to defend themselves.

    Because of the terrible weapons now available for war, the whole earth suffers from every war, and every nuclear meltdown, and every fracking endeavor, and every GMO endeavor and from all the other toxins and pesticides and faulty vaccines, etc. And the children suffer the most. Would that we could have given them a better world than what we were given.


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  • JHewes76 JHewes76

    I owe everyone an apology. I'm not usually the angry aggressive type.. I realize what is needed most is an open dialogue and understanding on both sides – but the stress I'm feeling because of everything going on (Fukushima, Gulf of Mexico, Middle East) makes me feel like it's crushing me, and I'm gonna pop. Man, we got a lot on our plates to deal with.. and I don't know how I'm going to do it. It's like when you have kids, and they're yelling,arguing and fighting between themselves. Sometimes, you just want to grab both by an ear and yell knock – it- off! Sorry for the ramble. You all are good people in my book ;)


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    • arclight arclight

      these are hard times indeed jhewes

      and through discussion we can find the answers..
      no need to apologise imo
      we all hope for peace here i suspect
      and we all hold the military industrial complex to blame.. No particular country as they are all comnnnected
      peace


      Report comment

    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Hi JHewes, it's alright….we all crush from time to time. No need to apologise to anyone. It's hard to endure what's going on on this planet, but if it steals our sleep, at least we're among the ones who feel anything. Who care for life.
      Don't know if you've seen the outstanding documentary "The Heart of Jenin". It's on YT.
      A true story of overcoming hate, leading to understanding and forgiveness and the insight that people on both sides of the fence wish for peace.
      Look it up. It's worth watching.

      *peace


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    • WindorSolarPlease

      Hi JHewes76

      I looked, and I can't find where you were angry aggressive, or maybe I missed it. Then, we can only read and not hear each other voices.

      We all let steam out, no need to apologize. There is a lot going on.

      I wish it was that simple to pull them by their ears and set them in their own corners taking away their weapons.


      Report comment

  • arclight arclight

    A BBC reporter stands in Tel Aviv in a flak jacket and a helmet reporting on the latest war on Gaza. The reports are dedicated almost entirely to the “awful” Palestinians and their rocket barrages on Israel. The camera then pans to the sky to show Israel’s “Iron Dome” missiles intercept the odd unguided rocket fired by Hamas in response to the wholesale massacre of Palestinians in the overcrowded Gaza Strip. The entire news report has been transformed into free advertising for Israeli military industries.

    The BBC bosses seem to have forgotten that the news organization is funded by the British tax payers. To watch TV in Britain, whether the audience tunes into the BBC or otherwise, each household has to pay nearly USD400- a year in television tax. The majority of tax payers are Christians and large minorities are of other religious persuasions in Britain. However the ongoing Israeli war on Gaza is reported as if the BBC is entirely at the service of the Tel Aviv war criminals.
    [..]
    In fact Press TV’s reporting of issues worldwide caused so many problems for the Western rulers and their allies that satellite operators in Britain and Europe are refusing to beam its programs into Europe and this just before another drive to murder Palestinians under an illegal Israeli siege
    [....]
    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/11/18/273141/bbc-betrayal-of-british-taxpayers/


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    • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

      @arclight

      Hate to say it but I no longer believe all that I read on the BBC online. Once they were a great news source. It seems everyone is grinding an axe now.


      Report comment

      • arclight arclight

        @no prevarication
        there is so much censorship internal and external that the bbc has largely stopped functioning as a reliable news source and even its other programs are effected

        i saw a bbc house renovation program that was going to raise money for a children in need project.. the whole program smelled of cleansing PR

        i am pretty sure if tbliar and lor mandelson are working for WPP that the bbc uses their services at least.. hence the BP mitigation PR exersise. added to that a national paedophile ring cover up during last years children in need, it has become more of a national disgrace as opposed to a national treasure

        my only regret is when it goes down the pan it will take all the saved programming from when the bbc at least tried to be impartial..

        the bbc never play harold pinter plays recently, yet hes was the uk`s best author playwright.. and a bit of a socialist too! but its a good example of how the bbc has been co-opted with another agenda of some sort.. imho
        peace


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  • arclight arclight

    As a part of the blockade on the Gaza Strip, the Israeli Navy prevents the Gaza fisherman from working for their livelihood and from providing food to the population.
    On Monday (16.6.08), 10 fishing boats went out to sea to protest, using their last fuel. Gush Shalom and dozens of activists from other organizations decided to organize a simultaneous Israeli action and hired a large vessel at the Herzliya marina.
    But when dozens of peace activists from various organizations arrived at the boat, the captain refused to allow the Gush flag, showing the colors of Israel and Palestine, on board.
    After a loud altercation, and after the captain called the police, the demonstration took place on land. Between the demonstrators in Gaza and Herzliya, contact by telephone was maintained.
    The Gaza human rights activist, Dr. Eyad al-Sarag, conveyed his gratitude to the Israeli protesters and expressed his hope for a cease-fire that would put an end to the suffering of Palestinians and Israelis and allow progress towards peace…..

    English • русский • עברית • العربية
    Français Deutsch etc.

    http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/events/1213650498

    and a great activist site here

    The Torah teaches: ‘Justice, justice, you shall pursue’ (Deuteronomy 16:20).
    http://jfjfp.com/?page_id=2


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  • NoNukes NoNukes

    Israel has been going through a bad recession, too, and Netanyahu has just lost the chance of his good buddy becoming president of the U.S., his friends (Petraeus, etc.) have fallen on hard times, his poll numbers have been way down, and the next election is January 22, 2013. http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-popularity-lowest-since-elections-poll-shows/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_legislative_election,_2013


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  • I just want all the posters here to know I visit enenews and the off topic forum daily .
    I read the comments, follow the links .
    So many of you, I consider like minded friends .
    I try to come out ever so often and leave encouragement .
    my thanks to you all …


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  • arclight arclight

    Civilian death toll mounts in Gaza
    Twelve Palestinians from one family killed in Israeli rocket attack in single biggest loss of life since crisis began.
    Last Modified: 19 Nov 2012 02:13

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012111842933654975.html


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Stop pretending the US is an uninvolved, helpless party in the Israeli assault on Gaza

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/17/israel-gaza-us-policy


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  • VanneV anne

    Alarm in Beersheba +12 Irotim successful [Google translation]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kAyqbKwd1o&feature=player_embedded

    Google Translation:
    The first attack in Beersheba early Mbtza"amod cloud "was filmed at the wedding.
    Making Iron Dome's amazing more than 12 Iirotim successful


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  • VanneV anne

    “Hassan Nasrallah, the head of the Lebanese group Hezbollah, said the targetting of Israel's commercial centre was a ‘very significant development’ in the conflict with the Jewish state.
    "’The firing of Fajr 5 rockets on Tel Aviv today shows the maturation, the wisdom and strength, and the courage of the Palestinian resistance in the Gaza Strip,’ Nasrallah said in a speech on Thursday night.
    "’The Israeli enemy was surprised and forced to acknowledge that its capital had been hit,’ said the leader of Lebanon's most powerful military force, adding that the Iranian-made rockets have a range of 44 miles.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9681562/Israel-and-Gaza-conflict-rocket-from-Gaza-lands-near-Jerusalem.html


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    White House march revives Keystone XL protest movement

    Hundreds gathered for the protest, in the hope Obama will reject the presidential permit required for the pipeline

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/19/white-house-march-keystone-xl


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  • VanneV anne

    Another ‘anti-Zionist head-exploding’ moment occurred when the U.S. House and Senate overwhelmingly passed non-binding resolutions backing “Israel’s right to self-defense.”
    “There’s nothing unusual about such a resolution, as popular support for Israel in America, based on polling by Gallup over the last 45 years, has been consistent and overwhelming – a fact which CiF contributor Glenn Greenwald, whose fear of powerful Jewish forces in the U.S. borders on the conspiratorial, simply can’t fathom….
    ” Congressional resolutions, which audaciously affirmed that ‘no nation’, including Israel, ‘can tolerate constant barrages of rockets against its civilian population’, actually passed unanimously….”
    http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/cifwatch/guardian-staff-perplexed-by-us-uk-support-for-israel/2012/11/18/


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  • Anthony Anthony

    Is this war number eight for Israel?
    The new conflict in the Gaza Strip has caught the world by surprise, just like the last Gaza war in 2008 and the Lebanon campaign of 2006

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9680553/Is-this-war-number-eight-for-Israel.html


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  • VanneV anne

    over 8,600 rockets launched from Gaza just between 2001 and 2009:

    “Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip have occurred since 2001. Between 2001 and January 2009, over 8,600 rockets had been launched, leading to 28 deaths and several hundred injuries,[1][2] as well as widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life.[3] According to research done by the Social work department at the Sapir Academic college, an estimated 15,000[4] people from Sderot suffer from PTSD and an estimated 1,000 are undergoing treatment.[5]….”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel


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  • norbu norbu

    How many rockets did Israel launch in that same time period? I am neutral, I do not believe in war or killing. Peace comes from talking and having good conversation.


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