FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) for Feb. 26, 2012 – Jan. 5, 2013

Published: September 3rd, 2012 at 5:28 pm ET


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Published: September 3rd, 2012 at 5:28 pm ET


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9,856 comments to FORUM: Off-Topic Discussion Thread (Non-Nuclear Issues) for Feb. 26, 2012 – Jan. 5, 2013

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Body Care Products Loaded with Mercury and Toxins

    December 14th, 2012

    Read more:

  • Anthony Anthony

    Methane Is Popping Up All Over Boston!
    Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:29

    ***… professor of earth and environment at Boston University, measured atmospheric methane concentrations along all 785 miles of road within Boston’s city limits with a highly sensitive device known as a cavity-ring-down mobile CH4 analyzer. They discovered 3,356 leaks of methane whose isotopic characteristics indicated that they originated in fossil fuel rather than microbial sources.***

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      The elite is promoting the myth of alien space craft from outer space, so that can make everyone succumb to a one world government ruled by a small military elite. They are only covering up their own deception.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        Haunebu – Disc Aircraft of the Third Reich (1922-1945 and…
        “In the years following the close of WW2, many Haunebu-shaped disc craft have been spotted all over the world leading to speculation that either the Third Reich survived in another part of the world (primarily in Argentina) or that the victorious Allies had captured the Thule and Vril technology and constructed similar craft.
        “The BRD (Federal Republic of Germany) is also suspected of retaining Thule and Vril technology with official designations of FU-1 and FU-2 (Fliegende Untertassen 1 & 2). The U.S.S.R. research with the German occult technologies is unknown due to Cold War secrecy; however, the Soviets are believed to have captured several of Schauberger's Repulsin models, Flugkreisel engineer Otto Habermohl, and Feuersturm engineer Gerhard Falker in 1945. Although the Soviets had their own disc designs based on the Suchanov series of "Discoplans" from 1958-62 and a rumored experimental circular-wing MiG prototype, the SS Haunebu type might have been experimented with as well since the Soviets got a good share of Dr. Franz Philipp's beam weaponry in Berlin which was part of the SS E-IV Technical Branch. Who knows what other E-IV secrets they got in Berlin as well….”

  • WindorSolarPlease



    • Maggie123

      WSP – friends of mine with particular interest in "energy fields and changes" have said for some time that 'forces' (i.e. planetary type – dynamics of universe) will affect individuals differently and some will completely 'loose it'.

      I don't fully buy into any single explanation of why a society and its individuals develop and act as they do.

      Personally, I tend to follow a more pragmatic set of ideas (earth bound beliefs, cultural tendencies, habits, ..), things that IF studied and widely discussed, we might have hope of changing. IMO, we're a blundering species in many respects!

      Both explanations ('universal physical dynamics' and 'beliefs, etc') could lead to outrageous acting out, IMO. (There are other systems of belief/study that explain this – most of them a bit too far out for me!)

      Just weighing in on your question, which I think is absolutely important. Sadly, so far, I think we've not asked it often enough, soon enough, and with enough sincerity!

      • WindorSolarPlease

        Hi Maggie123

        Well whatever force it is, it's not good..I also think drugs play a part in this. For some stupid reason, people are experimenting with drugs. They won't find happiness or anything good in them. The short high, just makes them crazy, and they don't even realize it.

        • Maggie123

          Hi WSP – I apologize if my 1st thoughts seemed in any way indifferent to the Connecticut shooting. I replied from general thoughts that I walk with, and did not check the story until minutes ago. The school shooting is unspeakably horrific. Thoughts such as mine best a bit later, perhaps.

          Since I'm here – will add to discussion by you, Anne, and Brawny re atmospheric/environmental hazards and stresses that originate from our "advanced" technologies – I don't discount any of them. I agree with you "it has to effect us in some way". IMO every dynamic force of any kind, (from any source and I don't fully rule out 'planetary'), is part of an "entanglement" that we can't hope to "control". And because we can't control such complexity, we have to look at what *is* possibly within our reach.

          For what it's worth, it's my observation after returning to the US following decades not here, American culture is deeply anxiety and anger-driven – more than 'normal' in most nations of our type. I've developed understanding and explanation that makes sense to m. The antidote IMO, generally speaking, is to follow the lead of people like yourself who constantly re-emphasize a call to peace, and who ask: "Why not?". Thank you.

          • Maggie123

            Edit corrections! "m." = "me." and "Brawny" = Dogleg! I've seen so many remarks about Brawny in connection to Dogleg, I forgot it's not the right name!

          • WindorSolarPlease

            Hi Maggie123

            I don't think there is a need to apologize, we are all just trying to figure this senseless act out.

            I cannot deny US has crimes, and drug problems. I also question what's in our food, water, and air.

            However, there are many people who are very nice and would like to see everyone in the world to have the freedom of speech and peace without fighting in the streets.

            I say peace, because I don't want Countries fighting Countries. We live in this world together and I think we should all protect this place. Fighting does not protect this world, it only hurts the environment and so many people.

            We may have problems in the US, like all Countries, but it's also a very wonderful place.

            • Maggie123

              Hi WSP – I hope I'm not misunderstood about differences in cultures of various nations. I often use the phrase "broad popular culture" to help avoid sounding like I'm "anti-". From childhood through to present day I hold deepest regard for people of all nations and cultures – certainly American! A regard even stronger when I think of individuals.

              It does seem true, however – and I'm far from the only person to observe this – that broad popular culture in the US has more strongly embraced selected attitudes and points of view that happen (by no one's intent) to reduce overall "felt trust" and increase overall "felt anxiety". Military, prison-as-social-solution, and lack of universal health care are 3 fairly strong practices, embedded in policy, that are significantly different in the US from comparable nations. Each of these also has links to low volume but persistent "anxiety". I don't raise the points to find fault, but maybe to raise curiosity. "Is there something to look at, to understand better, about this?"

              While living in Canada I was amused whenever I heard "Canada is the best country in the world", given how often I'd heard the same in the US! 🙂 I'm not into "best country" ratings – not even in 'better than' ratings. But I am definitely interested in looking at social/political history, etc that helps give form to a nation's broad culture. Multiple factors, always, including time/place!

              Hope that helps clarify. Thanks.

              • WindorSolarPlease

                Maggie123 you made me laugh thank you))) Yes most people think their Country is the best, or maybe we are all brain washed lol…

                I love this Country that I call home. However at times, I expect more from the Government.
                Do we have problems, yes we do. Nothing is ever perfect.

                Like I said we have the crime, drugs. We also have new policy's that many don't like.

                I feel fortunate that we can speak freely without getting taken away, we can choose our own beliefs or not, we can travel any time, they don't tell us how many kids we can have, they don't tell us where or when to work.

                The Fema Camps, the new health bill with chipping and mandatory insurance, the TSA, the patriot act, Indefinite Detention Bill, the protection of corporations, corruption, holding back information to the public, and I probably have missed something, all of this has some people uneasy and because of that, it takes away the trust.

                People can see a change coming, it's been happening slowly for some time.

                I do believe eventually there will be a NWO in full swing.
                If I'm still around I will miss what we had.

                • Maggie123

                  Thanks, WSP – much agreement in your prognosis, and if you had suggested 'global shift' in same direction you'd not get strong argument from me. My mood shifts depending on latest news, punditry, observations I make myself, and – quite frankly – my own energy levels re dealing with challenges of my immediate circumstances. Following decades of trying to figure out who 'we' (humanity) are, and how and why things go as they do among us I think I have much greater understanding. But answers? Sure solutions? Not so much.

                  What I believe we need to do, to attend to, comes across even to me as a "swimming against the current" activity. What to do? Swim, I guess, regardless. Hmm. … take care, thanks again. 🙂

                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  WSP, i fear my armed neighbors far more than i fear my government. I'm not happy we have placed, yes, WE HAVE PLACED, so much power into government hands, which essentially means that people who don't know me will be making choices that effect me, but, civic government tends to do on behalf of civic issues, and as long as us civics refuse to take responsibility for what is in our foods, the pollution we create, the guns we kill each other with, the medical establishment we support, the nuclear energy we buy each and everyday, ad nauseam, "government: will continue to grow and expand and do these things, maybe not so well, on our behalf and will continue to get the message from us that we want them in bed with business because we want our luxuries, we want our jobs, we want our television, we want our malls, again ad nauseam. America is a great country because great things can be done. It is a lousy country because nothing can be done. Abuse of power, which is

                  • Radio VicFromOregon

                    con't..abuse of power, which is wt i think people really mean, when they argue that civic government and businesses and the military control too much, is another issue. If we can't see the difference between agents abusing the system and a civic government that really intends to act on behalf of the people, we will fail to find the real culprits and define the real issues, and thus, fail to create the real answers to stopping this abuse of power. I have the power to organize and effect change and i have. Few Americans even bother, not because they can't but because they don't or won't. Where the real "can't" actually occurs because an abuse of power prevents us, is miles down the road from the many civic actions and influences we can effect for the good of ourselves, our society, and our world, imho and my experience.

                    • Maggie123

                      Vic – "..abuse of power, which is wt i think people really mean, when they argue that civic government and businesses and the military control too much,.."

                      IMO this point has needed to be made throughout public discourse for a very long time. By using convenient language that over-simplifies (such as "government", "business" and "military") we prevent ourselves from focusing on specific details, events, and behaviors (abuse of power) to be identified and called out.

                      It's hard not to over-generalize, but if we want the honesty we claim necessary I think we need to try.

                      Beyond a very small group, people organize themselves for sake of pooling resources, taking advantage of skills and talents, etc., i.e. "government".

                      The goal, IMO, is to make it work as it's supposed to – on behalf of all, including the earth that supports us. A 2nd goal is to honor individual input (horizontal democracy or as close as we can get). Etc …

                      I also think of field officers of govt agencies – wildlife officials, others whose passions have led them to service careers. Some of these I'm sure are restless as they see corruption but lack power to do anything if they have families, hopes, dreams, etc. Some are gathering details, by circumstance if not intent. They need to know their superiors are feeling pressure from us

                      I think you addressed this in sep. post re writing, protesting, …, although I think you meant legislators of good intent.

                    • Maggie123

                      Vic – I picked up on your "abuse of power" as specific actual complaint and posted some thoughts but wanted also to say your entire post on the wider theme makes excellent points, calling us to task:

                      "…as long as us civics refuse to take responsibility for what is in our foods, the pollution we create, the guns we kill each other with, the medical establishment we support, the nuclear energy we buy each and everyday, ad nauseam, "government: will continue to grow and expand and do these things, maybe not so well, on our behalf and will continue to get the message from us that we want them in bed with business because we want our luxuries, we want our jobs, we want our television, we want our malls, …"

                      IMO – we got where we are because the vast majority of us – well meaning, even salt of earth types, genuinely just wanted to make decent lives for ourselves and communities and over time, we 'went along' with being shifted out of 'citizen' role to 'consumer' role – and it all seemed to work for quite awhile (especially since misery at distant plantations and mines and in our own poverty-regions escaped our notice).

                      So here we are. Lots to think about – the 'bad guys' definitely are way out of control and very powerful. But the wisdom, if/when it comes, is going to need to come from us 99% or whatever portion we represent. And to have that wisdom, we need to look at the wider, deeper dynamic reality, (IMO).

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      M123, yes, i think things did begin innocently to a degree, people wanting things, a better life, mixed with the tendency to not be too overly concerned for those getting the short end of the stick while you and yours get to be included in the line. It's all i flux now and what was once depended upon is starting to fade ad people are very apprehensive. If you read ay of my diatribes on this subject, you read that my being a member of so may marginalized groups in America that a power exchage within the system just wasn't an option if i also wanted to live with integrity. I am on the FBI list, the secret Portland police CRIS files, the John Birch Society list, the Christina Coalition list, and who knows what all lists because i am subversive by nature, though kindly for the most part. So partaking of the power trough and the rewards that go with it are fewer for me, though my very white skin gave me quite a lot of privilege. Out of sheer need, i, and so many like me, had to look to personal empowerment rather than wait for government and it's public to grant us something. We had to live knowing a fire bomb could come through our window or be infiltrated by the FBI or both in an afternoon. We stood up for ourselves and we got past our iddferences ad create rainbow coalitions all over the world to stand up for all who experience injustice because we understood that privilige and power and rights come and go and that we had to develop strong inner cores that could …

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      con't M123…that could endure not only a power abusive government, a police force that beat us openly, gangs of armed straight white people, rapes, harassment, losing our children, losing our jobs, our housing, our very right to love dictated by people with far less love in their own hard little homophobic hearts. So, while i sympathize, i really truly do, with the people who are just now feeling the government squeeze and the cultural disconnect and the terrible coming disempowerment, i eat that stuff for breakfast and few of these folks were at my side making sure i wasn't harmed and that i had rights, but, i've always been at theirs because we learned early on that what happens to one will eventually happen to all. "First they came for the Jews, but i didn't speak out because i wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the…." pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

                  • WindorSolarPlease

                    VicFromOregon, I think we are saying the same thing about the abuse of power.

                    Just these alone that I had mentioned shows there is a abuse of power, and it's not for the well being of the people.

                    The Fema Camps, the new health bill with chipping and mandatory insurance, the TSA, the patriot act, Indefinite Detention Bill, the protection of corporations, corruption, holding back information to the public, and I probably have missed something

                    You said Quote: I fear my armed neighbors far more than I fear my government.

                    I had mentioned we do have the crime and drugs.
                    Times have changed since I was young.
                    I still love this Country. Too bad we are getting layers of radiation.

                    I think we agree. I just didn't go into depth.

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      Yes and no. I don't fear crime, WSP. I fear my law abiding neighbors. I fear their attitudes about their guns and what constitutes a reason for them to have one and to talk about using one. They are fear driven. They will become feral under stress. I fear one not so law abiding neighbor who beat his wife and kicked his dogs and shot off his semi auto for hours on end legally two doors down until i finally had to call the government you say is out of control to help calm him down, get his guns, and get him, in this case, onto meds so he would stop being so violent to those around him. HE was out of control. The sheriffs weren't shooting semi autos into the neighboring houses at 5:30 in the morning. My neighbor was. So, i'm saying it's not so simple. You, are in fact, part of the government. You elect someone to speak and act on your behalf and you can go to the many public hearings to make your own voice heard. You can make it a little harder for government mission creep to take hold. That is what it means to stand up for our rights. To literally stand up and speak. I'm not happy with the feds. I will never have a government that represents me. I'm not a capitalist, but, everyone around me keeps on buying stuff and making sure that it is alive and the only game in town. But, if it's important enough, i stand up no matter how big and powerful the obstacle or the authority. I stood up to racsim. I stood up to homophobia. i stood up to sexism….

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      my neighbors, being straight, could try and vote me our of existence. I will never have the same power over straight people as straight people have over me. That's an abuse of power as bad and as damaging as anything FEMA can level. it wasn't straight people who changed attitudes. it was gay men and lesbian and transgender, and eventually straight people got over their bad selves and joined in just a little. So, i begin this "government is out of control" from a very different perspective. From my view, most people abuse their power. There a few true allies. And, straight people WILL start to kill gay people when the food runs out. But, i've been shot at for holding a woman's hand in public and that didn't stop me. So, the talk about government rarely actually includes those on the margins who rarely get to be a part of the conversation without standing up, not just to government, but to everyone else as well. I can't lose rights i don't have….

                    • WindorSolarPlease

                      VicFromOregon, I didn't say the government is out of control.

                      I said I love my Country, but there has been some policy laws that are not for the benefit of the people and that some of these policy's show there's a abuse of power.

                      That is great you called the sheriffs department when you saw there was a problem.

                      There are people from all walks of life, government, state, federal people who are working for the best of this Country, environment, and for the people.

                      I agree with you that, in a disaster some people would act crazy, some won't.
                      It's hard to tell who would act crazy. No one knows how they will act, until a situation happens.

            • owlafaye

              The ears of the greedy people running things are deaf to peace and goodness. The obvious control of all things exercised by the oil industry is something you folks just ignore…we are fomwenting war in the Middle Easat because of oil and nothing else. The CIA has been toppling governemnts since its inception. Wake up fools.

              • WindorSolarPlease

                owlafaye have you not been reading the posts people have posted in here?

                So many here have said the corporations are being protected, where the environment and the public has not. Corporations – Nuclear Power, Oil, Mining, Fraking, and so on.

                All along most of us have said, There has been fighting over oil, the riches of the land, and the pathways to get it.

                What gives you the right to come here and call us fools, plus I think name calling is against policy.

                Many people in here are very much in tune to what is happening.

              • Radio VicFromOregon

                Precisely. Nefarious covert governmental action is nothing new under the sun.

        • FREEDOMROX

          Gun Control works "Thank God for Guns" and Gun Control

          Gun Control explained

          More Guns to Solve Gun Violence! More Gun Control More Crime!

          Amazing Argument for the Failure of Gun Control

          • moonshellblue moonshellblue

            Mental Health, Mental Health…. I cannot say it enough as this is the issue not guns. So many of these senseless killings could have been prevented if it a person seeking help could find it but in this country it is basically non-existent. Some states are better than others but the highest score is a C for Mental Health which is unacceptable. My state gets an F it's just horrendous and then people wonder why why why. Well better care would be a start and perhaps a psychological exam for anyone purchasing a firearm. JMHO

            • Maggie123

              Hi Moonshellblue – need to get away from keyboard but want first to agree with you on mental health. IMO the full 'picture' goes beyond individual 'crashing/burning'. Every person operates in context of personal history/experience of family culture, larger community culture, and ultimately national culture – many sub-cultures making up the whole, often but not always sharing values/beliefs.

              IMO 'mental fog' elements within a culture need to be looked at as we go about addressing individual mental health. That's because individual mental 'ease' or 'dis-ease' is directly and fully entangled with immediate and larger cultural values, beliefs, practices (barring actual brain injury, electrolyte imbalance, etc).

              Two of my 'go to' inspirations on this: and Finland Open Dialogue approach

              Just re-located the Finnish model site, have not read what is there, but quick glimpse it seems to be what I've wanted and not been able to find for a while: "social context" – healing the individual a group affair in a way that honors everyone's contributions, opportunity to better understand, etc.

              • brainheart

                Thank You for the links. I read every article and book excerpt on the site. It was very calming to me. I didn't learn anything new because I have spent most of my life seeking out calming techniques based on the power of the mind and the body, but it brought me back to myself and for that, I am very grateful that you were kind enough to hear me and to share the link.

                I am practicing avoidance behavior right now as I was expected hours ago to take one of the relatives to complete a task. It was supposed to be both of them, but the state of mind of the second relative is unknown. I have true trepidation. I cannot absorb any more mental attacks. My physical brain is truly breaking from the lifetime of mental attacks and discounting.

                I cannot thank you enough. It strengthens me before I face likely adversity.

            • WindorSolarPlease

              Agree moonshellblue, there should be care for those who need it. If care isn't there, then we all suffer. It's the people behind the guns that's the problem.

              Not sure we ever want to lose the right to bare arms. To bare arms this means not fighting with water pistols against the heavily armed. Should the right to defend this Country and yourself be taken away against the heavily armed?

              Instead of a complete strict background check with just the person buying the guns, check everyone in the household where the gun will be stored.
              When buying a gun it should be mandatory to take classes on how to use it, how take care of it, and what your responsibility is in owning one.
              Gun shows also need the same strict rules.

              I see nothing wrong with more security people, more camera's, and walking through medal detectors machines at schools with all grades, excluding the invasive routine of TSA pat downs or the dangerous X-ray machines.

              • WindorSolarPlease

                BTW..I also think that the games kids play, movies, and music need to be toned down with the violence.
                Why promote violence?

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      I posted a video not long ago that says that cell phone frequencies change the brain and create more violence. And there is all the radiation and cell phone towers, combined with anti depressants and the very unhealthy diet of Americans including pesticides and GMOs and transfats. Cell phones also cause depression and Alzheimer's.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Just before the Aurora theater shooting allegedly by James Homes, the GWEN power in Pueblo went off full blast.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        Mysterious Radio “Blast” Before Colorado Massacre Puzzles Scientists

        Also, there is so much violence on TV with its flicker rate, and all the violent video games and violence promoted by Hollywood. It is bound to affect some of the aberrant population.

        When culture is subjugated not to health, but to the profits of the elite, some or much of society will not be healthy.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Shooter Adam Lanza Was Autistic – Had Personality Disorder – Shot 26 People Dead Including 20 Children
      “…Adam Lanza, 20, shot his mother dead and targeted her kindergarten class at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., sources sais. Sources also told The Post that Lanza’s mother was a teacher at the school and he “had a dispute with her.”…”

      • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

        Not sure if he had any disorders – the one thing I know is he had access to far too many guns.
        This is one of the issues I really don't understand about the American society – the obsession with guns….it's obscene.

        And heartbreaking. All those lifes…. 🙁

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          This is what was reported:

          "ABC reported: Ryan Lanza, 24, brother of gunman Adam Lanza, 20, tells authorities that his younger brother is autistic, or has Asperger syndrome and a 'personality disorder… "

          Of course, I can't say that ABC is terribly accurate.

          • Maggie123

            PLEASE! Need to weigh in – news linking shooting to autism EXTREMELY irresponsible. Sorry for caps – As Anne says: "can't say ABC is terribly accurate".

            I heard the 'autism' explanation yesterday and hoped it would either be clarified or go away. For one thing, there's a 'spectrum' of symptomatic behavior that comes under 'autism'. For another, 'Aspergers', within autism as I understand it – is *also* a condition on a 'continuum'.

            If I were someone with an autism/Asperger condition I'd now be feeling intense stress at how my society might 'turn' on me.

            I do not mean this as a complaint here at ENE. I just feel I need to do something before public notions of human conditions once again become cause for mistrust, suspicion, and fear.

            We isolate and marginalize too many among ourselves as it is.

            Thanks – found this link:

            • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

              You are so right, Maggie…..autism / Asperger doesn't kill.
              Guns kill.

              • Dogleg Dogleg

                Its not the autism, it the powerful meds used that cause people to commit these horrible acts. IMO

                • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

                  Hi dogleg, how many children would he have killed without the guns?
                  I wonder…..
                  The NRA will be happy to blame meds, I suppose.

                  • Dogleg Dogleg

                    Do you really think if we outlaw guns that disturbed people would not be able to get their hands on them? We outlawed cocaine long ago and cant even keep it out of our prisons

                  • kalidances

                    Yesterday a man in China attacked 22 kids and an adult woman…with a knife.
                    The American politicians of both parties, with the help of Obama:

                    Cut funding resulting in the closure of proper locked mental health facilities.
                    Cut funding for special ed teachers. Cut funding for psychiatric counselors. Cut funding for qualified social workers. Cut funding to medicare so adult patients could not stay on their meds.
                    They shipped out the jobs so working parents no longer had the money to get proper medical coverage, including psychiatric counseling and medications, for their kids.

                    There is never any tax money for social services or mental health maintenance but there is always money available 24 hours a day to fund endless overseas wars. No democrat or republican has taken so much as a one-cent pay cut while all of this is going on.

                    Tossing psych meds at the patients who require lifelong housing in locked facilities is useless. This will keep happening until people admit that tax money needs to go to providing proper mental health care.

                    • brainheart


                      So well said and so true. I will die early due to the stress of protecting and teaching independent living skills to brain damaged relatives and further protecting society from the impacts of their behavior. I will also not be seen or heard because it takes all of my energy and all of my time. 80% of my days and nights are so stress filled that my health is deteriorating very rapidly. I have never been able to be an independent person myself because every minute of every day and night I have to worry about the current status of the stability of one of those relatives.

                      Every night I have to figure out how we are going to smooth over the latest crisis so that my relatives can participate in activities while I get a short break. There are no real vacations. There are only stressful trips that start out as attempts to have real vacations. There is no hiking as there is no time and the rlatives are too disabled. There are desparate grabs of very short periods of time to discover and to enjoy nature. There is desperation as life nears it's way-too-early end to have just a brief respite to have just a glimpse of independence myself for the first time ever in my life. And there is only fear about what happens to them when I am no longer here for them.

                    • brainheart


                      The fallacy of public or private services is exactly that. They exist, but the constant toying with funding of each individual piece of every service guarantees inconsistent and often unavailable help when it is needed the most. The general public would see more problems if a handful of relatives of brain damaged individuals did not sacrifice having a life. Those relatives already have all of their thumbs and fingers in every hole in the dike and another hole is inevitably going to appear.

                      And, probably like this shooter's mother, there is no appropriate outlet anywhere for expressing the frustration that I just expressed. Even on this site. Which is why, after the fact, everyone spends all of their time trying to figure out what suddenly and seemingly randomly happened.

                    • Maggie123

                      Worth noting, also, Kalidances – the knife wielding assailant wounded, even maimed up to 23 people – 22 children, one adult – but no one died.

                      Tried to find news link that seemed 'objective' – not sure of this LA Times one. "No death" is not even mentioned (although widely reported by other sources). Also, LATimes article references a "propaganda official" and I don't know if that's the writer's outrageous anti-Chinese pejorative 'spin' or maybe the Chinese are more honest and actually call some PR people 'propaganda officials'!!

                      Article had other useful insights re social conditions – "unhappy citizens" turning violent seems a global potential!,0,6383015.story.

                    • Maggie123

                      Brainheart – thank you for taking time to spell out the exhaustive reality for caregivers of people who require constant attention. I tend to assume there are mutual caregiver support groups at least in larger centers – but realize individual time/energy to participate even in a mutual support groups can vary by circumstance.

                      So much to look at in our societal structures!

                      For me, there are also always questions about the nature of the disabilities – some diagnoses have less to do with actual 'deficiency' and more to do with a social/economic structure that can only 'use' people who meet an increasingly narrow definition of 'normal'. (But realize too that's not always true so don't mean to refer to your situation.)

                      ADD – for instance – has been understood by some researchers as having good value to some kinds of societal needs – but doesn't work when most are expected to be 'cubicle workers'.

                      The US is among most heavily medicated for mood-altering drugs of any nation – that should raise a flag to us to look at our general approach to "well-society".

                      And of course, powerful meds not only are identified as related to extreme behaviors sometimes – withdrawal from those same meds is equally dangerous + organ health deteriorates over time with many of them!

                      IMO – the extreme tragedy of a shooting like this should be a major wake-up call to examine all factors deeply. But we get these across time, and roll ahead as if each is an 'oddity'.

                    • brainheart

                      I almost addressed your concerns also because, as always, you also hit the nail on the head.

                      The medications in the case of one of those relatives is what keeps her violent outbursts in check and allows her to participate in everyday activities. Regular uncontrollable outbursts every hour until starting medications at 12 years old after breaking a counselors nose. Then no outburst at all for 45 days and the ability to concentrate on learning for the first time. Now, the outbursts occur about every 2 years and usually involve many police officers, trips to the hospital, medication modifications, etc. But, I acnt imagine how it would have been without the medications and I was the one who resisted them for so long based on unproven horror stories. She had access to hundreds of highly trained behavioral modification experts of every stripe, each one believing in their own flavor of magical powers to positively improve her behaviors (me included, no judgement there). Only medications worked and continue to work.

                      The other relative is the biggest challenge. Almost 50 years old and never treated or medicated. I am so thankful that she has no access to weapons. When she gets tunnel vision, she creates so much trauma just by violently screaming usually with ceatively linked obscenities and threatening other people. The worst part is that she doesn't see her own behavior at all. It is always everyone else who is flawed.

                    • brainheart


                      She receives no public assistance of any kind and no services from anyone and her living expenses are 100% on my back. I will be going bankrupt soon. I do what I can to ensure that she doesn't end up on the streets. But, her mental issues are larger than what I can do anything about. And, I end up broken (heart and brain) just doing the best I can.

                    • Maggie123

                      Brainheart – tricky to place this post given the string but want to thank you also for your further follow-up, description of the 2 different needs, what's available or not, etc. As a result I've reflected back on people with or cognitive issues I've interacted with across time.

                      My focus has been 'meds'. I've been involved with cases where meds were inappropriate but 'pushed' (convenience seems most common reason); and I've been involved when meds were absolutely *the* critical solution.

                      In latter case, thinking especially of young child distressed (along with adults) at his own aggressive outbursts. He had no idea where they came from (they originated from much more than 'mere' life-experience). To deny meds would have sentenced him to constant dis-ease of his own situation. Too complex to explain, but taught me to ease my strong resistance and to appreciate compassion of meds in some situations. He was so young, I like to think as he matured he could more successfully use his own cognitive functions to sort himself out (he was pretty sharp) but I've lost touch.

                      I've also thought of a few adults genuinely 'lost' to themselves and extremely angry, frustrated, able to harm. I've also thought of an email friend with highly successful career but Aspergers – his bleak unhappy years before it was sorted out!

                      My 1st scrutiny *always* "environment" (immediate to societal) with meds as short/long assist. Huge topic. Open mind!

                    • Maggie123

                      Brainheart – don't want to skip past "caregiver" but due to length won't say much more than it's another HUGE topic, properly assigned to "societal" scrutiny, IMO.

                      That we march about earth making fine speeches about "humanity's successes and achievements" while relegating caregiver roles to volunteer, or self-sacrificing family members, or poorly paid service workers is … well, I would say "disgusting" except I don't usually use that word to describe situations I don't like.

                      Societal hypocritical, dishonest, self-satisfied trumpeting of grand economic/material achievements sort of covers it. (Curiously too – stats confirm it's usually women who do this care-giving.) … Well … I've had *many* thoughts on my afternoon's reflective journey! I will continue thinking of you and the 2 you care for. Best Wishes!!

                  • behappy1

                    the same amount.
                    laws will not do away with guns
                    only lawful people will not have them

                    A man in china just sliced up 22 children
                    with a knife

                    should we outlaw all knifes

                    HE killed those children and the corward went to the school because he knew he
                    would be the only person with a gun there.

                    It took 17 mins from what I heard till the police went in.

                    Not sure what country your in B/B but I would bet your violent crime rate went UP
                    after a gun ban.

                    Its a moral problem, the shooting and the meds.

                • Maggie123

                  Hi Dogleg – I understand and have some agreement with 'gun rights' but IMO the US, if it would look at its 'obsession', would discover it's gone beyond the pale in types available, ease of access, and transport.

                  I speak as a target shooter who hung out for years with Canadian g.smiths and hunters at a community gun club. Canada had one mass shooting that stunned the nation (college students). The massacre was part of the argument for tighter rules and mandatory basic training. These were much objected to, but from what I hear are no longer a key political issue. (One objection was registration of long guns, this portion of the restrictive laws has been withdrawn or greatly reduced as it was a bureaucratic nightmare + costly!)

                  For what it's worth, I feel less, not more, 'safe' knowing when I go about in my US community I may be surrounded by women and men armed, with mindsets that they will "save all of us" should trouble arise.

                  I *do* agree that meds need to be looked at (several others have also mentioned). IMO *everything* related to social structures and real experience of "felt well-being" needs to be looked at in our society. We could create something very different, more celebratory of individual and community at all levels.

                  Worth noting also that gun lobby is related to profits (?). Just my opinions here – I know gun laws are a very hot topic in the US.

                • crystalwind crystalwind

                  Hi, dogleg. Agree.I vaguely recall, as it was years ago, but there were several schoolyard shootings and stabbings throughout the US. As I read the accounts, they each mentioned in passing that the child doing the act was being given Ritalin for everyday schoolyard "stress.". It was being prescribed widespread for elementary and high schoolers. But IMHO, I don't think we can assume that all of these tragedies have the same cause; there are indications of other causes in some of them. Ya think?

            • Radio VicFromOregon

              Hey, M123, BnB, i am a high functioning autistic and have a brother with Asperger's. While the brain type can make dealing with strong emotion a challenge at times, the carry through that would be required to get a gun, kill with it, go kill someone else an entirely different location, kill some more, then maybe kill yourself is just not part of the experience. Beyond very brief flares ups that might be a bit excessive to the normal frustrations of daily life, autistics are actually so plugged-in to the life around them that direct violence is rare. They usually self harm i an effort to control emotion, not strike out at others. Asperger's tend to be stuck in their heads, and while maybe not as empathic as one would like, tend to resolve conflict through disengaging from it and people, not seeking the out to destroy and punish them. The difference in an autistic mind to what is considered a normal mind is the amount of external stimuli and mental capacity to process the stimuli. It's a little like being on acid all the time. You have to take frequent breaks from people because they are perceived as loud radios that are not tuned into any one station so the static is annoying. this is due to people being so internally conflicted. Einstein and Lincoln are two good examples of high functioning autistics. Think holographic instead of linear thinking, and in images rather than in words and concepts. For Asperger's think incredible linear focus thinking that …

              • Radio VicFromOregon

                con't…can sustain the memory of several details. These are not broken minds or the results of poorly developed brains. I see the rise in these brain types as a development in human consciousness. Not the end all be all, but, one more step toward greater consciousness. Giving up my autism would be like Counselor DeAnna Troy losing her empathic abilities and being human. Having these brains can be like riding wild pony and one can frequently fall off, but, that is usually the worst of it. We don't turn around and start killing everyone because the ride is too rough. Thx, M123 and BnB! People with "normal brains", please don't look to autism and Asperger's for the explanation to this latest violence. Look to one of the most violent societies since the Romans – America and it's worship of using guns to quickly resolve conflicts which can be seen on the tube for hours each and every night.

                • brainheart


                  I very specifically use the term broken brain because I really do think that we are on the brink of a new medical understanding of all medical conditions based on genomic medicine. The problem with identifying the shooter as being Autistic, IMHO, is that the terms Autism and Asperger Syndrome are used as catch all medical disorders that describe a set of related and unrelated conditions.

                  Many of the characteristics described as Autistic are also decribed in other medical diagnosis including brain injuries, strokes or even aneurisms.

                  Forming brains are affected by environmental factors and we are very aware of the genetic mutations that are caused by radiation and other environmental toxins in utero. Eventually, genetic abnormalities will be more readily identified and even treatable. Current studies are underway for correcting some genetic markers that have been identified in some percentage of individuals who have been diagnosed correctly or incorrectly as being Autistic.

                  The understanding and study of the brain and it's functioning is just starting to exponentially grow into directions that we cannot currently fathom. That could be a very good thing if we remove the economic and military intelligence interests that tend to drive the science into unhealthy directions.

                  • Maggie123

                    Thank you, also, Brainheart – so easy to isolate a portion of a large and meaningful discussion. What you say here is also most welcome to me! I do have concerns that brain study can become simplified information that broad public takes as truth, (often presented that way). In fact, trying to pin down something called 'autism' may be a case in point.

                    Personally I have deep misgivings about genetic marker's on a range of potential human maladies. What's the intent, the societal payoff, I wonder – are we trying to aim for something 'better', as in 'a better human'?. A 2nd concern I have is that there is evidence genes 'manifest potential' differently in differing environments. (An awkward effort to describe – sounds like you have kept track of genetic/mind science and may know what I'm talking about.)

                    At the same time, I doubt there's much point in trying to hold back human curiosity. I think you've targeted my concerns with "That could be a very good thing if we remove the economic and military intelligence interests that tend to drive the science into unhealthy directions."

                    • brainheart

                      We use different language and different terminology and yet we mean the very same thing often.

                      My only hope for greater understanding of the human genome is that it is used to enhance an individual's own desire to participate more fully and more effectively in society.

                      The shooter is described as being very intelligent but socially awkward. A part of me thinks that he had a greater desire to be able to participate in social activities that he was unalikely to be invited to participate in. He may have been very social and unable to act on the need to connect externally.

                      That said, I have no desire to provide an excuse for his reprehensible actions. But, if we do not even entertain the possibility that there is a way to medically identify the type of underlying medical conditions that exist when cultural, emotional and spiritual supports have failed and to possibly provide an opportunity to heal physically, then we are potentially limiting human potential and perpetuating further atrocities.

                      I am having difficulty focusing and writing succinctly due to the interactions with multiple individuals that I am engaged in currently. But I am very passionate about this very topic, thus my username. Any human endeavor that uses the brain alone and discards the heart results in the very damaging human condition that we currently find ourselves facing in every single direction we look.

                    • Maggie123

                      Brainheart – Again thanks for putting to words sentiments such as following: "we are potentially limiting human potential and perpetuating further atrocities…. passionate about this very topic,… Any human endeavor that uses the brain alone and discards the heart results in the very damaging human condition that we currently find ourselves facing in every single direction we look." (I suspected re your user name – super!) 🙂

                      Caught your note to Vic below – I so much appreciate the distinctions you make (that our insistence on labels combined with over-generalization leads to great harm as we mis-categorize, leap to unfounded assumption, …).

                      Also this: "Many beautiful people become hostile after brain injuries and some people are born hostile when the injuries occur in the womb"

                      I didn't mention F.A.S. but it's definitely among womb brain injury; also reminded me of the story of Phineas Gage (1st famous study of personality change with severe brain injury) Post-birth chemicals, includ meds bear careful use (currently too often inappropriately and over-prescribed IMO – unhappy death of very dear friend not long ago due to complications over this).

                      writer/speaker re pre/post birth brain injury linked to environmental context whom I deeply appreciate at

                      I've 'expanded' focus more than intended, or immediately useful but so appreciate this discussion. Wish we all lived up/down street from one another! 🙂

                    • Maggie123

                      Vic – this lept out among your words of wisdom: "… read a article about a village in Africa where families brought their family member of friend that was seriously mentally ill, … families … attended all the groups, and treatments, and counseling and the village essentially helped normalize the sufferer into higher … functioning and ways to cope …without medication. … The doctor realized that with such profound mental illness, the entire family was effected and everyone needed to supported and learn new behaviors and methods of coping. It was remarkable."

                      The story is 2nd such response to mental illness I've come across. The other a few years back re a traditional Finnish method and I've never forgotten it. Have failed to locate info until I found this link only yesterday:

                      I *think* I heard a brief description of the Finnish approach near the end of a talk by Roger Whittaker (Anatomy of an Epidemic):

                      (Am operating from memory – should check the C-Span vid again but think the mindfreedom site may be comprehensive resource so it may not matter).

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      M123, thx. The village in Africa was before the internet so there might not be any articles, etc. about it, but, this Finnish site looks worth checking out. Margaret Mead's son, Gregory Bateson, did some work like this, too. I remember reading some of his articles just after i had been visiting someone at a mental health hospital. F Ward, where the "unreachable" were medded and housed. Some drug addicts temporarily rehabbing on another ward due to county budget cuts had brought in a small portable record player, turned on the music and started a dance party. The nurses took that opportunity to leave. As soon as they left, the "unreachables" locked within their own private worlds started to notice that something was different. Most heard the music. The young man in the bathrobe who pushed a chair back and forth across the room stopped and looked around. He stayed in place and twirled in circles enjoying himself. Another woman straightened up from her usual hunched form, went up to each person, asked what their name was, if they wanted to dance, then, regardless of the response, moved on to the next. When the nurses returned, these, as well as others, returned to their previous unresponsive and fixed behaviors immediately. It was transformative for me to see this.

                    • Maggie123

                      Correction – *Robert* (not 'Roger') Whittaker! 🙂 The 'while nurses away' story is remarkable – wonderful – and I can certainly understand it's transformative value!

                    • Maggie123

                      Whittaker C-span talk gets to Finnish experience around 45min (I've had it running – just happened to get there this minute.)

                      Also – Long ago Omni magazine article, one of their brief 'one page' features, I think it was, described a UK psychiatrist using a no-meds treatment that I remember mostly as a 'pastoral' care setting – a 'wellness' community that mostly respite and refuge from trigger environments. Patients 'were' the community, and setting had lots of nature (an estate style place?). *Huge* improvements.

                      I recognized psychiatrist's name but not sure any longer who it was. If it was Laing, I think his patients relapsed on return to 'regular' lives, but Omni art. reported what/who as successful – might have been someone else or incomplete report. Even still, IMO it's a huge 'hint' at a path to follow!

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      M123, huge path to follow indeed. Agreed! Thx.

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      Ooops, i meant, huge hint, but, heck, it's a huge path, too.

                  • Radio VicFromOregon

                    brainheart, i'm just so sorry for the the struggles of the two people you mentioned ad the family with them. The issue, amd right so, for many is that people are over mediated and many are mediated when they don't need it or shouldn't be given it for many reasons. True mental illness is rare. Brain damage is less rare, and now with the latest war, unfortunately becoming the new normal for many returning vets. I have a dear friends who accepts a bipolar manic depressive diagnosis of herself who was recently in a car accident. A drunk 16 year old hit her passenger door at high speed ad she suffered brain damage. She had to go back on meds after decades of being drug free in order to function ad get time to try and recover. As a health practitioner, a acupuncturist and a chiropractor, she does this all with great awareness. Her struggles make mind look like a piece of cake. She has lots of insurance and temporary SSI for this disability – the brain damage ad not the bipolar. But, so few have any safety net of any kind. In fact, her having bipolar almost disqualified her for receiving SSI for the injury. We've both decided that we are each living several karmic lives at once just to get it over with and move on to something else 😉 That downside of drugs is that one the body reaches the threshold of tolerance, they become ineffective and higher and higher doses are needed until even these are no longer helpful.. It sounds like that is the situation for one of…

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      con't…brainheart…your relatives. The options can be grim, as ou know, psychosis and the streets or institutionalization with heavy thorazine plus others – dangerous levels sadly. Way back in my counseling/service program days, read a article about a village in Africa where families brought their family member of friend that was seriously mentally ill, mostly schizophrenics, one of the true forms of mental illness as opposed to emotional illness when such distinctions matter. The families stayed with their family member or friend and attended all the groups, and treatments, and counseling and the village essentially helped normalize the sufferer into higher and higher functioning and ways to cope with their illness without medication. The family had to learn these, too, so that they could support the person in creating this life and be included back into the family. They were expected to function, and so they did, as long as the expectations were realistic and the families could make some adjustments to their expectations. The doctor realized that with such profound mental illness, the entire family was effected and everyone needed to supported and learn new behaviors and methods of coping. It was remarkable. A short story – i once counseled a man wit schizophenia and together we worked, i mostly adovcated, for him to have his meds lowered so that he could function better outside the hospital and also so he could up them when and if he felt the need, which gave…

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      con't…brainheart…which gave him a small, but, meaningful control over his life. He could have much less fog o less meds, but, also risked higher agitation. he had reason to be paranoid. his father had broken his arm and other bones repeatedly during his childhood, he was the first black man to go to the private all white university but was physically beaten and expelled for being gay, he had been dishonorably discharged from the army for the same reasons. He was one of the nicest people i had ever met. His main issue with his life were these two FBI men he believed were tailing him everywhere he went. He had spent much of his life with many well intentioned therapists trying to convince him that these agents did not exist and that he was simply paranoid. He'd get on a bus and they'd get on, too, so he'd have to get off and walk all the way back home, often missing whatever engagement or outing he wanted to do that day. I suggested that instead of trying to lose the FBI agents that he learn to include them, to accept them as part of what he had to content with in a day each time he left his home. Let them follow. And, do what he wanted. He went on to live a much more fulfilled life, sometimes checking himself in to the hospital, but, mostly living on his own or with his mother. He opened my mind to a whole new way of seeing things – don't struggle against the delusion. Recognize and accept it. Some will eventually fade away. It is the path that allows…

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      con't…brainheart…it is the path that allows the person to become emergent, to transced the delusion because they no longer give it power over them.. hey start learning to negotiate with it and some even to let go of it. Far more easy for everyone. But, far more accomplishable for the schizophrenic. Why force their minds to do something they cannot. That is cruel. That is about me, not about them. That is my need, not theirs. He was nonviolent for the most part, where your relative is not and the same may not be able to apply to her, or her condition, but, it would be lovely if her descent could be checked by some "thinking outside the box" clinician who just happens to land on a solution that can help and who knows of a special little halfway house with an opening. Let's hope for that. And, for money for you 😉

                    • brainheart

                      The amount of time and effort that you took to respond to me means a lot as I do feel very alone in this situation and I have the most supportive husband a person could possibly have. The relative situation is breaking both of us and he is a very compassionate person also.

                      The relative is my sibling. That part of my family denies, puts their head in the sand, blames the messenger (she has absolutely no introspection and the family blaming the messenger has made a lifetime of bad situations far worse) and pretty much gets angry with me because I don't joyfully declare all is well.

                      I am in the midst of one of her public threatening episodes where she has been banned from a community program where she was much loved for almost four years until her tunnel vision decided that a service provider for the Aspergers relative needed to be publicly threatened at the community program. She cost the Aspergers relative her service provider and her entire social network that was attached to the activities that the service provider took her to for two years 2-3 times a week. The Aspergers relative for the first time ever had ideation of self-harm. I have fortunately been able to make her feel safe and loved again and am working hard to get her the replacement service provider that opens up that entire network of people that she was enjoying until 2 months ago.

                    • brainheart


                      I fill in everywhere else. Every day, I set up additional activities, take both to appointments, see that they have the most basic needs met, assemble furniture and even clean their house that I bought for the raging relative because she has been evicted 14 times and I no longer have the health or the energy to deal with all of the unxepected housing disruptions, etc……

                      Thank You again for your words. I always thought my initial communication to you would involve the dying trees in our area. I live on the Columbia River in view of the I-5 bridge. I had great interest in your comment about the encroaching salt from the ocean, as I don't know what is killing the trees.

                      It is hard to miss and some of the trees appear to be up to 300 years old. Just a drive through Delta Park, Fort Vancouver, Lloyd Center, neighborhood streets and wildlife areas. I have only taken 2 pictures to-date and found that they aren't 3 dimensional enough to display the real true damage. Bark is pulling away, the trees are rotting from the inside out and the trunks are breaking in half and sometime just in chunks. I have been amazed at the lack of comment. Nad, yet I know that I hold some responsibility myself to document what I see.

                      But, it has been a luxury to take time to comment at all on this site and I am off to the unknown status of my relative now. I do not know when I will be able to comment again.

                      Thanks Again just for being…

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      Brainheart, ah! Dang it! It is so hard when someone throws away what was working so well.

                      The salt was hundreds of years ago so i'm thinking that shouldn't be the cause now since it should have been washed down deep given our regional rains 😉 I've seen the same thing here and i am renting a little place not too far from Forest Park. Several tree diseases, including bark beetle munching on weakened trees is coming through our area for many reasons, but, the temp and rain changes are stressing many of them, and the air pollution along your corridor there is horrible. Air pollution is a major tree killer. But, i also read a few years back, who knows where, that Vancouver has some serious ground or soil pollution, maybe effecting the aquifer there just beyond the Vancouver. Something about an industrial spill being allowed. There are lots of good environmental advocacy groups keeping a eye out, so don't feel bad if you can't always share your observations, though i welcome them. I'm heading back into a work phase, too, so won't have time to blog much after tonight, but, i wanted to check back in. We'll catch up again. Btw, i'm impressed with what you've accomplished for your sibling. Kinda like Glen Close and her sister in some ways. You are inspiring. Few can do it. Most will never know your experience. But, you are bringing light where there is darkness. And, light has a way of attracting others. Be well.

              • Maggie123

                Vic – Perfect post! Thank you! Brains are remarkable 'devices' if I may for the moment refer to them that way. They are treasures of the richest sort, and a fair number of them don't fit a mold that can be labeled 'normal'. In fact, as we know, 'normal' is based on 'average' of multiple measured factors and by that situation there's probably not a normal brain anywhere! (Although it appears there's a 'clustering' effect mid-way along an imagined continuum.)

                Times past, not only in hunter-gather cultures, but even agriculturally and craft-based cultures, there were more roles that gave place for the wide-ranging capacity of individual human minds – or, that's one interesting consideration.

                IMO, much categorizing of 'problematic brain' is a function of the part of our minds that wants to "pin things down with certainty" – a place for everything and everything in its place. There's some risk in taking this inclination to excess.

                I won't wax on – but Vic, I am so pleased and grateful for your taking time to lay out your experience! (Also won't bring my own brain into this as it's never been 'assessed' – but will say it's often been observed as "different". :))

                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  Maggie123, that you are possessed of a "different" brain goes without question, thank goodness! I am completely certain that your brain is joyfully different, talented, metaleveled, and probably holographic in some fashion, too. Thankfully, my father never informed me of my early childhood assessment and i didn't find out until i was well into adulthood, so i didn't fulfill the expectations others would seek to be validated in their opinions 😉 I did receive a couple years of assistance with reading and speaking in grade school, but without labels. I want to thank you and BnB for addressing this, btw. It is a little weird being reminded of how different i am to society. Somehow, i've managed to usually be on the edge in most things, and i am grateful because the view from out here is so much clearer and beautiful and alive, but, the price is social distrust even if one's actions are beneficial and genuine. Did you see my facebook name in response to your earlier post?

                  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter


                  • brainheart


                    You are also one of the most beautiful minds and souls on this site, so if my words create any consternation for you, I am sorry.

                    I know that you do not harbor hostility towards others. I am trying to convey that those who would harbor hostility and do seek out to destroy and punish others are labeled with many conditions including Autism. They are incorrect distinctions. I agree that they should not be labeled Autistic, but often they are.

                    When an individual is not bound by the limited expectations of others, that is terrific.

                    However, when the opposite is true, it is disastrous and very harmful. When the belief that the mind is beautifully different and just misunderstood, but the mind is terribly destructive, and that condition is confused with Autism, it creates the type of fear of Autism that we all wish to avoid.

                    My stress is the result of dealing with a very hostile oriented brain. Many beautiful people become hostile after brain injuries and some people are born hostile when the injuries occur in the womb.

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      brainheart, i harbor great hostility towards much of the human race on a daily basis. They are destroying my only world relentlessly, savagely….and each day i work to be at peace and understand what they do and why they do it. See my rant below as an example of my frustration that the murder of twenty some 5 year olds has turned into a gun rights crusade and not an opportunity to openly weep together. I appreciate your kind and thoughtful words, and please know that i understand them very well. It's true that kindness is innate to me, but, still, i have to practice it and practice it because it is so hard to be one's self in this world. I do understand brain damage and the impulses, the lack of controls, the frustration when you can't get your mind to work properly or consistently, the rages, the flooding, the need to create "turn off" switches and then remember they are there to be used. "Stress" is putting it mildly 😉 Yet, already you have done a great deal of work to be able to have such self assessment and reflection. Hopefully, you've had help from those who hold you in affection and esteem and haven't had to do this all on your own. For me, it is these people, their light, for however long or brief, that kept me facing towards the world. I am in love with the universe and that is unshakable because of the kindness of such people.

                  • Maggie123

                    Good morning, Vic – up earlier than usual as 1 of my 2 dogs is "houndish" by breed and spectacularly sneaky fence jumper. Despite my adding 12" all the way around a yr ago, which has worked pretty well, she's discovered greater potential it seems and now 'conquers' the barrier! Interesting how annoyed I feel at her as I wait. (Her dominant breed possibly blue tick – literature on them says "dont' let off leash in unfenced area as they will indeed go for a run". Apparently have super-noses and respond to distant calls. ARRgh! 🙂

                    Caught the notes here – thank you so much. Wonder how it would have been if I'd been formally assessed – so much has been learned since I was a kid. I also think back to non-readers of my rural elem schooling in fairly conservative, of unsophisticated learning, culture – 'beliefs' about their potential before dyslexia type conditions were recognized.

                    Beliefs such a powerful driver and so poorly understood or examined – IMO a problem at the crux of this discussion – which I think we tackle from several (individualized) angles. (Problem minor if any within our discussion, far more significant in 'broad culture' chatter!)

                    Yes! Have got your FB name – thank you!! Next – I've got to venture over there and spend some time!!

                    Dog returned via back – may mean she was at gopher hole "unable" to hear me call, whistle, call, etc. – but within fenced area. (Not a shepherd, lab or heeler for sure!) Hmm… 🙂

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      Evening, M123. So glad she returned. Annoyed puts it mildly for me when one of my guys takes a walkabout without me. Too many fast cars in this country/suburban interface. I have a Aussie, a double merle but he sees and hears well enough but very reactive to sound and movement, and a Border collie who needed a home from a fried who could't keep him. They are soul brothers. 3 cats. A sister/brother i adopted and now my dad's cat since he passed away. Things are not so groovy with the cats thus far. Oddly, my dogs could easily jump 5 feet, but won't hop over the 2 foot ornamental wire fence because they know better. But, if they find a gap, that's fair, then, and it only makes sense that they should avail themselves of the convenient opening 😉 I am sooo not fb literate but trying to learn cuz i have relations that like to hear from me, but, we're not connected enough to actually warrant an email or a phone call. I also don't like fb initiating fake invitations from people i haven't hatted with for a while. Irks me. Btw, i liked your post on not remaking the same old society over again. How are we going to avoid doing that, Maggie?

            • moonshellblue moonshellblue

              MY son has Asperger's and hates loud noise. Every 4th of July he hides in the basement and covers his ears. I try not to have the news on because they keep bringing up his condition. This is a very painful time for so many. Breaks my heart on so many levels. Personally, as a mother I would never take my children to a shooting range for various reasons which are self explanatory but to each their own. Once again it's not the guns it is the abysmal state and lack of appropriate mental health care. JMHO

              • Radio VicFromOregon

                The 4th of July. My most hated holiday! News Years is next.

                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  MSB, a few of my acquaintances and friends that saw heavy combat and started feeling badly about what they were a part of in Vietnam and Fallujah also hate it, but, they manage to smile and act unaffected to not make others feel badly since it's suppose to be patriotic to reenact the lights and sounds of a war zone each year. They also don't want to be seen as sissies. It hurts to not be able to protect them, but, there's no where to go where the noise and flashes aren't. It's taken over city, country, and coastline. It'd be nice if the festivities could get contained a little for the rest of us who endure it to be neighborly. For my freaked out animals, i turn on classical music that i can handle played loudly, close the windows no matter how hot it is, and hang out with them for the 6 hours of the 4th, oh, and the nights before the 4th of course, and then, that entire week after the 4th when people discover their left over fire crackers, and then…. I will think of your son and tell my animals about him as a story of endurance this coming 4th, and remind myself that there are others out there having as unhappy a time.

        • behappy1

          No, my bet is he had access to heavy duty pysc drugs

          If a teacher had been armed, they would have has a chance

          Guns are not the problem

          • Nuclear-NotCleanNotGreen


            **Another School Shooting, Another Psychiatric Drug? Federal Investigation Long Overdue**

            "Fact: Despite 22 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence."


            List of **School Shooters Under the Influence of Psychiatric Drugs**


            **The Huffington Post—Drug Companies Drive the Psychiatric Drugging of Children**Dr. Peter Breggin

            "…more than three million children on psychiatric drugs are for only one class of medication — stimulants for ADHD. Large numbers of other children are being put on highly dangerous adult antipsychotic drugs, antidepressants, and mood stabilizers, often to treat so-called “childhood bipolar disorder.”"

            "With increasing millions of children being placed on drugs that can harm normal development of the child’s brain and mind, and substitute for proper teaching and parenting, it’s time to change emphasis."



          • Radio VicFromOregon

            Yet, oddly, behappy1, such as in Australia, the tighter the gun control, the lower the gun violence. They cut down the deaths in half from 450ish to 250ish very, very quickly. Of course, nothing compares to the US annual gun deaths of over 10,000. You can't be suggesting that all teachers have a six shooter strapped to their hip, surely?

            • FREEDOMROX

              Vic, I love ya, but no falsehoods, please.


              Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

              • FREEDOMROX

                Vic-"You can't be suggesting that all teachers have a six shooter strapped to their hip, surely?"

                I don't know about anyone else, but that is precisely what I am suggesting and with good reason and with merit!

                25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'


                • eatliesndie eatliesndie

                  Gun ban? There is no gun ban in Australia.

                • Unknown Unknown

                  Morton Grove has a total gun ban; a population of 23,373 and a crime rate that stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

                  Kennesaw has a mandatory gun ownership law; a population that has skyrocketed from 5,242 to 28,189 since the passage of the law in 1981 and has a crime rate of 2,027 per 100,000.

                  There is obviously much more going on here than a simple explanation that guns inhibit crime. As the story mentions both are still below the national average of 3,899 per 100,000, not to mention they are almost identical. Concerning the story source, it is a web site that publishes commentary by RIck Santorum and Chuck Norris among other worldly folk. .

              • Radio VicFromOregon

                Frox, how about never telling me that i am lying. Perhaps suggest that i am mistaken, but, not lying. I'd appreciate that. I suggest reading the book How To Lie With Statistics. Anyone can cherry pick facts and make their case. I was passing along information I had been given by someone who lives in Australia and what occurred for her on the streets, not what was put together for whatever political reasons to make whatever point. I'm sure you're quite familiar with that experience with a certain sinkhole? My point is this – if guns were so effective at curbing violence, then war would work. I would suggest that Gun Town is the exception to the rule. Guns are not the only element in the equation and to suggest that it is, i think oversimplifies the problem and blames the victims, including the kids, for not packing. And, while Gun Town may have been murder free, and that is not about guns, that is about people's harmony or lack thereof, we don't see the tally of accidental shootings, hunting accidents, or kids with Daddy's revolver.

                • Radio VicFromOregon

                  I do think that we are responsible for our own personal safety, and there are certainly many alternatives to using lethal force that are cheaper and easier and don't require the user to shoot straight with a tool that is notoriously inaccurate. We'd hate to see the teacher hit one of the kids instead of the perp. She'd need counseling for life. Guns are formidable, and there are few effective counters to an armed, angry person. Not even another gun unless you can completely overpower the shooter with force such as multiple guns with trained shooters from multiple vantage points or considerable higher powered and higher calibered. Just ask any police officer. Right or wrong, they routinely shoot to kill, but almost always as a group. Doing so singlehandedly is much too risky and likely to get innocents shot in an exchange of bullets. Sometimes guns are an answer to a threat. Many times they are not.

                  • Anthony Anthony

                    I think the school murdering has to be tackled simply from a *not getting into the school* perspective – school security. Some people will always have access and use weapons. Sadly the day of this tragedy, I also posted a horrific story about a killer who did the same with a knife in China. On a macro level, it could be seen as a world problem. Looking at it like that, one quickly sees it is not about guns only, and that the prevention of the intended harm critically is at some lacking security access point to the kids in school. You could ban guns completely now in the US and there will still be killings if you let the killer complete whatever psychotic emotional mission they seek to fulfill. I went to a kick-ass scary school years ago in Ohio. Violent, urban – I was terrified in many ways. Once the bell went all classes were on lock-down so that NOBODY could access or leave the class but the teacher and the administration who had mutual class keys.

                    I hated that school experience and was relieved when we moved permanently to Canada. But as much as I was afraid of being within that structure, I can clearly see nobody got hurt until recess or lunch. Hooligans stormed the halls during many classes, pounding on doors and harassing anyone who was in the hallway. I don't remember ever asking to use the bathroom during any of my classes those years.

                    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

                      Anthony, I think we need to address the abysmal Mental Health care in this country. It is impossible for parents to get help for their young adult children or anyone they know needs psychological help. I know on a young man who went 4 times to the ER and was rejected, he knew he needed help and even the police said they could do nothing until he harm himself or someone else thus the prison system is the mental institute. This is obviously a major problem that no one has addressed and is very frustrating for parents, etc trying to help a loved one with absolutely no where to turn. Something must be done as it is not guns, it is people look at China a knife was used. I've seen psychosis first hand and it is horrific and can happen to anyone. Mental Health care I hope will be part of the ACA. JMHO

                    • Maggie123

                      Interesting school experience report, Anthony – good to be reminded of the range of realities. Hardly conducive to happy learning! Solutions IMO would include community development in wider (outside school) initiatives, ideally emerging from, driven by, locals themselves.

                      Deterioration of communities IMO is a by-product of broader, deeper, chase that I guess can be called 'materialism'. We forgot to use wisdom, foresight, and "imagined possible problematic outcomes" as part of our self-guidance along the way.

                      IMO China is a case in point – a 'real time' unfolding available for world to watch – of an awakened chase of prosperity focused on acquisition of 'stuff and lifestyle' to solve human worries. Buying/selling, winning/losing, social/economic/power hierarchy go along with this.

                      Re gun issues – worth noting the Chinese case no one died. I think of 23 wounded, keeping in mind trauma of horrific experience, only 2-3 were 'critically wounded'. Article in LA Times suggested this is one of several similar in China – all by mature men (early mid-age?), each feeling a kind of despair over economic prospects. Explanations never justification – but informative – IMO China too is out of balance with genuine human prosperity as bottom line goal.

                      Hope we learn soon! Prognosis if we don't, I'd suggest, is more and worsening anger, blame, despair, marginalization, etc. & violence. (Hmm – not so cheery note here – sorry!)

                    • Maggie123

                      Anthony – want to acknowledge & agree with "tackled simply from a *not getting into the school* perspective – school security". Clearly that's an immediate intelligent response. IMO it does not, however, ask or encourage deeper, wider, factors at play in inevitable dynamics of any society. In my other reply I wandered off on 'deeper, wider' and should have acknowledged value of your 'first response'. I hope we'd not mistake needed level of security you rightly identify as best possible solution to long term "healthy community". Great and valuable discussion IMO – thanks!

                • FREEDOMROX

                  WHoa! I did not call you a liar, so calm down. Many people state falsehoods because of, " I was passing along information I had been given by someone.", and not by stating it as a lie.

                  People kill. Period. with a shovel, a garotte, neckties, cars, prescription drugs, and even guns.

                  I have never witnessed any gun anywhere ever kill anything. I have seen people pull the trigger, and as for Kennesaw Ga., they had four times the crime rate in 81, but after the law passed in 82, it was cut in half.

                  When you stick a sign up stating "Gun Free Zone', then you are inviting a wolf to fleece and murder the sheeple.

                  I promise you, if a sign read, "All Staff are armed" then no murders of children would have been able to take place.

                  That is my stance and I will stick by it. I blame people with bad intentions, and never the tools they use, as the target for blame. Just as I praise people for doing the right thing, instead of the tools they use to accomplish it.

                  • Anthony Anthony

                    You make many great points. But to this:
                    **I promise you, if a sign read, "All Staff are armed" then no murders of children would have been able to take place.**

                    I think they would just bomb the place. That sign would be a *great taunting* for some people in my opinion! I've seen people freak with much less! A security guard accomplishes the same thing I think!

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      Anthony, it isn't so simple and black and white, is it? May i take your post as an opportunity to also introduce a link to a picture of a group of police coping after having walked into the classroom?


                      I've been on the other side of many a protest line with these guys, but, they are human. They are also who most Americans choose to maintain some semblance of order while also restricting their power of interference, which some might see as their ability to effectively respond, in order to make sure they can't completely abuse their power. Some people want less restrictions on police as a means to better protect themselves. Others argue for more restrictions on police. How might this be different from the argument of arming ourselves? Whatever we may believe, the police, like the fire department and the EMT's are, besides the victims, usually the first responders. I think that little in their training and experience prepares them for the walk into that classroom.

            • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

              Hi Vic, did you say 10.000? How depressing is that….here in Germany 145 persons were killed by firearms in 2010, according to the latest federal police statistic I could find.
              To the gun supporters: I think the US are more wrapped up in fear than they notice. But it's quite visible with an outsider's view…go on worshipping firearms, fingers crossed they won't be turned against you or loved ones one day.

              It is so sad.

              • Radio VicFromOregon

                BnB, i understand that Canada has lots of guns, too, but, not the same level of paranoia and fear that Americans harbor. I've had guns in my face more than once and it's not a pleasant experience. It certainly gives the holder an immediate sense of power, which, i think is a big part of its allure. I paid a lot of attention to my brothers and their relationship to the thrall of the gun. Their eyes would light up when they saw one and immediately wanted to touch it, hold it, play at shooting it. Of course, they had grown up seeing guns used on television everyday and the charisma and power that the White Hat good guy possessed who always turned out to be the faster, more accurate shooter who'd never shoot ya in the back. He always got the money back, got the gal, got the badge and the job with authority, and got to kill people because he had "NO other choice but to gun them down". The bad guys made him do it. All the rationales of using excessive force. Not too many clever, intelligent MacGyver's in American television. Mostly just men forced to kill.

                • aigeezer aigeezer

                  VFO, I know there are many like you who find yourselves living within that gun culture but not feeling part of it. I have the luxury of viewing it from the outside. As B&B says, from the outside, it looks like a culture of fear. I imagine most Americans would be amazed to discover that outsiders feel pity rather than admiration for their culture – I would add that guns are consumer items. Once you buy into gun-world, "you can never have enough".

                  Anyway, I usually feel that discussing guns with Americans is pointless. They will have to figure it out for themselves.

                  As for "lots of guns" in Canada, it depends what you mean by "lots". The ratio is about one-third of the US gun ownership ratio. Here are some detailed stats about ownership and use worldwide. Gun homicides are highest in various third-world hellholes and the USA.

                  Among the subtleties of gun-world, the Swiss, with a very low homicide rate, choose guns overwhelmingly as their preferred murder weapon. No neckties or shovels for them – very efficient, the Swiss.


                  • Maggie123

                    aigeezer – amazing graphic – thanks for link!!

                    A few years back Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett at (and founders of same) published a book under different titles.

                    In US title was "The Spirit Level: Why greater equality makes societies stronger" (Note! 'spirit level' in UK is carpenter's level – the liquid traditionally was alcohol!)

                    The book was meant as "discussion starter" on factors that seem linked to a society in which most people generally feel "life is OK, even enjoyable". Wilkinson and Pickett compiled much data drawn from a range of international and national studies on murder, death rates, education, trust, …

                    As much as this large and wonderful 'off-topic' conversation may seem unrelated to Fukushima, the Bayou Corne sinkhole, and other extreme conditions – IMO it's essential.

                    If we 'merely' manage to 'clean up' the mess we've got (unlikely as that usually seems) without having learned about self and community more deeply – we'll achieve nothing more than a 're-boot' of what we've now got, IMO.

                    Much thanks to everyone weighing in here!

                    • jump-ball jump-ball

                      For those looking for additional gun data, Zerohedge has presented the most voluminous popular current piece I've seen on gun and fatality stats, impressing me with the estimates that between 500,000 and 1,000,000 americans per year have used a gun to thwart intuders and to protect home, family and property (see 'Crime and Self-Defense').

                      John Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime" has the most definitive stats, and points to countries that have already tried and rejected the gun control and other futile measures that some americans, and liberal quick-answer politicians, are continuing to propose here now.

                      Israel for one, facing terrorist attacks for decades, first tried defending business, government, school and other soft targets with complete armed police and military presence. When that was found both too expensive and still vulnerable to armed intrusion, the Israeli government voted to arm the citizenry, of whom some 35% now have carry-permits. Lott tells that when an attack occurs, the gov't. leaders urge the armed 1/3 of the population to make efforts to carry their arms daily. Citizens, with guns, are deterring violence and protecting the broader populace.

                      A movie theater with, say, 500 viewers, 170 of whom are armed with handguns, (and 33% of citizens armed in every mall, or other venue or location) is to me the best deterrant I have heard to date:

                  • Radio VicFromOregon

                    Thx for the link, Aigeezer! I'll gladly update my knowledge base and mark one more reason why moving to Canada might be a good idea ;-).

                • richard richard

                  hi Vic, the usa BangBangKillKill tv shows and films are exported world wide and play repeatedly on every channel.

                  all i'm getting at is that i'm not sure you can blame the shows, we've all watched them.

                  similar thing for computer games.

                  but the rest of the world don't repeatedly gun each other down. – well, i know that's generalising.

                  maybe tighter guns controls have helped elsewhere.. there is certainly a high likelyhood that it has.

                  imo, it's the drug/gun combo that's the fatal cocktail. Either your celebrities OD on big pharma 'sedatives', or younger, less fortunates, trip out and use the most powerful device they can control – a gun.

                  so many insane legal drugs.. sends people bat-shyte crazy it would seem.

                  seriously, this is a big problem.

                  and to clarify, i take zero regular medications. an occasional asprin or an anti-biotic. but nothing for 'vitamins' or 'bounce' or 'brain building' or 'anti-depression'.

                  but it would every second american is taking something regularly from big pharm.

                  ranting.. i'll stop.

                  • Radio VicFromOregon

                    Richard, my fellow vegetarian, i appreciate that this situation is like the parable about the blind men trying to figure out the elephant depending on what part they are touching – the tail is a rope, the flank is a wall, the trunk is a snake. They are all wrong, but, a little right at the same time. I include war as an extension of personal violence sanctioned on a larger scale. Aussies go to war regularly enough as an ally of the USA to be considered aggressive in my estimation, not to mention the subjugation of the indigenous population of Australia as a colony of her majesty, shooting joey's for sport and recreation, that sort of thing. The lone gunman is an inevitable manifestation as is the serial rapist/sadist as is the colonialist. Not all will show up in the same frequency in all places, but all WILL show up because they are logical expressions of the same paradigm of using violence to conquer and punish others while elevating the self, if only momentarily. What may be different for America, i think, is more a difference in interpersonal relationships. Most shootings are done here by the ones you know and love which is also most of the rapes, child molestations and family violence. Stranger violence and danger in America is small in comparison to familia violence, though the media and social institutions hide that fact and teach the very opposite.

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      I was an alcohol and drug rehab counselor for many years and out of necessity, created my own programs as a alternative to the mostly failing programs out there. I worked with some of the most drugged, addicted, including legally addicted people on the planet. There is no question that drugs influence behavior, but, the drugs were always what came second. The breaking of the individual came first. Now, maybe by a drug induced adult, but, nearly everyone i worked with was pretty much conditioned through violence and coercion by the time they were 2 years old and ready for market by the time they were 11 or 12. Drugs/alc made it possible to cope with the fulfillment of their role in society. Over time, drugs/alc defined the person. And, removing the drugs was a first step in reclaiming that person. But, however significant, it was the smallest step in the process of recovery. Letting go of the paradigm was always the largest hurdle. But, the paradigm held power as long as the drugs held sway. So, this circular trap gets set up, a chicken and egg kind of thing. But, drug dependency cannot exist without the paradigm first.

                  • Radio VicFromOregon

                    Sorry for the lengthy diatribe…the newer antidepression classes of drugs can have really horrible effects on some people, including deepening depression and suicidal ideation, or the desire to kill yourself. They CAN make some people paranoid. Most people just become apathetic and live a slow silent scream behind their gauzzie film, and that is tragic and sad, but it lets them tolerate the paradigm of the society without rejecting it, and this brings rewards of accumulating possessions, fitting in, etc. It may be necessary to drug sizable portions of the population to sustain group think. Women And Madness by Phyllis Chesler. And, Capitalism requires ever and ever greater amounts of dissociation to continue to see it as in your best interest to support it. Scary, really. But, the most destructive, mind altering, physically damaging drug so far is still alcohol, plain and simple. It is a neuro toxin that creates substantial and sustained shifts in perception and behavior over time with use, especially in habitual use, and most pronounced in heavy use and it is a very, very old drug indeed. In fact, it was used against the indigenous population in North America who had no genetic tolerance to it, helping to destroy entire nations of people. But, first, there was hopelessness from brutal, repeated subjugation. Then came the drinking to cope with unimaginable loss.

                    • or-well

                      VicFromOregon, I want to acknowledge your many insightful & thought provoking comments. Here is as good a place as any, after "The breaking of the individual came first."

                    • Maggie123

                      Vic, As Or-well says "insightful, thought provoking" with special appreciation of the clear statement: ""The breaking of the individual came first." I could not agree more, and believe there are many 'subtlety broken' who, unaware, find the "norm" works pretty well, so don't see how the system 'breaks' others. I'm not doing so well with words today – perhaps 'catching a ride' on Or-well's acknowledgement. But I do feel deep appreciation. Thanks.

                    • richard richard

                      where is our friend 'Insight' by the way.. did talking about energy issues become too boring. Armageddon is a whole lot more fun at predicting 😉

                      I think we passed the 'few weeks' benchmark for Insight's 'war'.

                    • Radio VicFromOregon

                      M123, abuse should never happen, anymore than nuclear power or wars or…it's all dissociation, isn't it, and in that state, anyone of us can do harm, intentionally or mindlessly without much awareness. And, of course, the victims/survivors, in turn, dissociate if they are in societies that heavily rely on dissociation. Destructive dissociation is especially capable or horrific acts. But, the resilience of the spirit given the smallest act of integration – compassion is integrative, wonder is, too, authenticity, of course, as just some examples – and healing begins in an instant. Allowed to complete its process, and a person or animal, or plant for that matter, can continue on its development integrating the experiences to become whole. I think that is why these mental health villages work. They are integrative. But, of course, you know this already, act from this in all your posts to all of us.

              • Maggie123

                B&B, others also re 'fear' in US culture. That's my observation also – a dose of culture shock when I moved back here because in last 40 yrs or so much change. (Not denying deeper historical patterns, just commenting that a corner seemed to have been turned while I was gone – main chase/drive late 20thC seems to have been captured and dominated by "social Darwinism" as "truth". IMO – this even within "human potential movement" which managed to preach "self-realization" to exclusion of "community realization", which in turn contributed to "individual solely responsible" interpretation of success/failure.)

                So I met people who are individually wonderful but also very caught up in what I characterize as 'low grade persistent anxiety'. And the anxiety is linked to "gathering and hanging onto markers of prestige, success, etc.". Any possible erosion of this 'shield' (their accumulation) is interpreted as "the undeserving trying to get my stuff that I've worked hard to gather".

                Others want 'community need' to be 'convenient' – fully manageable, non-disruptive to barbeques, football games, and holidays.

                (Some of these qualities are universal, just stronger in US, IMO.)

                As we see here (and elsewhere) there also are many in America who are less entangled, more critical, and often activist in one way or another. But dominant culture is not yet shifted, to my observation.

                  • Maggie123

                    Thanks for the link, jump-ball. "voluminous popular current piece … on gun and fatality stats" is an understatement! Way too much for me to comb through without 'settling in' for focused study, which I've not yet done.

                    One question that occurs to me re successfully discouraging or driving off an intruder by wielding a firearm (not necessarily firing it) is – Was that the only way?

                    A g.smith/hunter friend of mine used to say there was also this plan – "If the thief wants your stuff, offer to help him carry it out to his vehicle". He wasn't entirely kidding – his point "He must want it more than I need it". (The same friend was adamantly opposed to excessive gun ownership restrictions.) 🙂

                  • Maggie123

                    After a few moments of extra thought – would like to introduce the idea that all of us have 'bottom line' notions of "inevitable" human social behaviors – from "compete aggressively over resources" at one extreme to "cooperate to support everyone's needs" at the other. (Oversimplified but …)

                    It's been my contention for some time that no newborn arrives with intent to become thief, murderer, etc. In fact I hold to thought that every child born 'intends' to explore interest and talent in context of mutually supportive community.

                    By my philos., the dynamics of human community contribute to eventual 'need' to steal/murder – or not. This is why I return again and again to themes exploring structure of societal institutions and mutually shareable resources.

                    Big topic – one underlying philos. that I think holds more power than close scrutiny supports is 'social Darwinism'.

                    Since my 'whole thing' is an extensive philosophy – it's too much to take farther, but it influences all my thoughts on key ideological conflicts.

                    IMO we've not given the cooperative approach serious and enduring effort. Interesting studies support greater creativity when cooperation is encouraged over competition and/or winner/loser – and suggest the latter fosters 'anxiety, aggression'. (Etc, etc, etc …!!) 🙂

        • kez

          Agree much BnB.

  • Dogleg Dogleg

    Hey Eatlies you out there? I finally got my video posted. Here is the link

    • WindorSolarPlease

      Hi Dogleg

      I believe there is something going on no matter what's it called weather control, harp, Chem trails, or the other names they may have for it.

      Jets will leave a trail, but their trails don't last like this does. There has been people who have admitted to spraying.

      I have no idea their reasons for doing this, maybe it's a radiation protection, maybe weather control, or experiments, who knows?

      What you saw was nothing. My husband thought it was just a conspiracy theory until one day I pointed to the sky and it was all crisscross, the worse I had ever seen. He said," It will be gone soon, it's just the jets." We looked at the sky later and we could still see the lines they made.

      Not sure why people think they would admit to this, even though we can see it with our eyes.

      • WindorSolarPlease

        BTW..There has been people testing the ground after a spray and it's interesting in what they have found.

        • Dogleg Dogleg

          Hi WSP. My thoughts parallel yours. I have watched What/Why in the world are they spraying, both great documentaries. The spraying on this day was very lite compared to some days. Seems to be heaviest just ahead of an approaching storm system. A couple of weeks ago I noticed the heaviest spraying I had ever seen. I was on the phone with a good friend and was describing it to him or I would have made another video. Looking back I wish I would have hung up and filmed because a commercial jet flew across the sky leaving a normal contrail, great contrast. The two documentaries What/Why in the world are they spraying hold an interesting fact I noticed. In the first on, pre-fuku they list chemicals detected and do not list potassium iodine. In the second one, post-fuku they do. Found that interesting as we both know what potassium iodine is used for after a nuke accident

    • eatliesndie eatliesndie

      Hey there Brawny, WSP. Yep. That's totally out of order. crazy. And I too can say "I have no idea their reasons for doing this, maybe it's a radiation protection, maybe weather control, or experiments, who knows?". It certainly is getting a lot more frequent and very hard to pass off as simply CON trails when they are not even in line with established flight paths. CON being the word. I'll keep watching and recording….

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    4.7 240km ESE of Ishinomaki, Japan 2012-12-14 05:07:04 37.522°N 143.795°E 33.4

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    A Prayer and a moment of silence for the 26 souls and especially the 18 5 year olds just brutally murdered in conneticut this morning………

    • WindorSolarPlease

      Maybe more timemachine2020

    • WindorSolarPlease

      This is just evil craziness.

      • eatliesndie eatliesndie

        Yep. This is just to much, I don't want to know the details….

        • WindorSolarPlease

          eatliesndie if you live in the US I think you might have to live under a rock for awhile then.
          They will report on this, as this does not involve a corporation. They will be allowed to discuss this.

          From this, there might be talks about gun laws, talks about more security, maybe more of our rights gone. Never let a crisis go to waste. Unfortunately, there might be those who will try to use this tragedy to their agenda.

          Issues of mental illness prevention might be discussed, hopefully drug prevention also.

          Hug your family and be thankful you can.

          • eatliesndie eatliesndie

            I don't live in the US. I don't get news other than ENE, I don't send my kids to school(home education works much better), hardly anyone around where I live has a gun it's just not a part of the culture, drugs can be good as well as bad and sometimes I do in fact live under a rock. Hugs all round!

            • WindorSolarPlease

              eatliesndie, So cool that online reaches so far. I never thought I would see this.

              Not easy teaching at home. If you can offer the education that is needed in this world at home, then go for it. I'm afraid I would have to hire a professor if I still had kids.

              I doubt you live under a rock, because you found this place.

              Nice that you live in a safe area.

            • Radio VicFromOregon

              😉 😉 😉

            • richard richard

              hi eatliesndie .. i cam relate to the bulk of you post here.

              my only concern is home schooling.. it really is not the best for children. i've live several years on the northern nsw coast and i'm aware of the the isolation some of the terrain and distance creates. i'm also aware of some of the children that have grown up through that isolation.

              bottomlime, it doesn't help social skills (not that I'm any role model of course). the scope of what can be presented as education at home has a very limited spectrum.

              i appreciate you've made you're choices, but i'd strongly encourage you to think about stronger, wider education.. do the kids a favour.

              • eatliesndie eatliesndie

                hmmm. You are being a little general there richard. I lived several years in Sydney and I know the isolation. I've also met a couple of kids from there and let me tell you, etc. etc…..
                Things are never so simple

      • jump-ball jump-ball

        WSP: The seven armed bank robberies that occurred over the last 2 years in desert cities CA were also just evil craziness, but my otherwise no-good, too-big-to-fail, taxpayer-bailed-out bank never-the-less hired a full-time armed guard to prevent being the next holdup victim and to protect the safety of the 8 employees and the average customer line of 4, an average total of 12 people.

        Evil craziness has a long history, and wiil have a long future. Kindergarten students as well as grade school, high school, college, and all students, deserve the same armed protection that my bank provides daily for the people on site, but don't expect the same safety responce from the U.S. Department of Education: their expansive goals outlined below, and their 2013 budget rising to only 98 BIL$ from 2012's 65 BIL$, leave no room for such consideration of full-time armed school guards to provide for the safety of kindergartners, and up:

        • WindorSolarPlease

          I agree jump-ball There does need to be security without the kids freaked by their presents, but that does cost money.


    Local coverage of the school shooting in Newton, CT

    Looks like Ryan Lanza is on Facebook alive and well saying it wasnt him….

  • Anthony Anthony

    Triple Suns and Inverted Rainbow Appear Over China
    Thursday, December 13, 2012 23:34

      • Anthony Anthony

        Original Chinese article….

        Check out the picture closely on this link… I'm not even going to say what I see in that picture.

        • Anthony Anthony

          Also in Shanghai – different picture of same three sun phenomenon.

          Shanghai now three solar spectacle

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          Headline [Google translate]
          The mainland East China City sky wonders now three sun upside down rainbow
          Caption under the photo (Google translate):
          “December 10, appear in the mainland cities of Shanghai, Suzhou, Changzhou, Nantong, Danyang sky vision, ‘three suns’ with now, and at the same time "upside down rainbow" (network picture)”
          Article {Google Translate]:
          “WASHINGTON, December 11, 2012 – December 10, appear in the mainland cities of Shanghai, Suzhou, Changzhou, Nantong, Danyang sky vision, "three suns" is the same now, and at the same time appear upside down Rainbow ", there are people called" Smile Rainbow. Wonders so that people to doubt whether symbol of the end of the world, experts reject it.

          "’Yangzi Evening News’ reported that early in the morning of the 10th, Nantong City Ho Bin forum there are users posting said the morning to see both 3 ‘spectacle’ of the sun in the sky, and upload the pictures. At the same time, Shanghai, Suzhou and Changzhou users found this spectacle. The symmetrical two points of light in the sun just rising on both sides,.
          “One time this spectacle to become the focus of discussion by the users, and coincided with the 2012 end of the world, ‘said the boom in users wonder whether this is a harbinger of the advent of the’ doomsday ‘.

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            “Coincidentally, Nanjing, Mr. Ho at 9:00 on the 10th or so, the way to work Maigaoqiao Wal-Mart did not expect looked up and saw the smiling faces of color are hanging in the sky, he was surprised to be called up, "! rainbow! "and his voice immediately attracted many already are hard walking pedestrians, people have looked up and discussed. "This day was not any rain, how early in the morning of the rainbow?" He immediately took out his cell phone to capture this beautiful picture, but a closer look after the photo shoot, he found, "rainbow how usual not as an anti-arc. "It turned out that an upside down rainbow.”
            Caption under photo [Google translate]:
            "’Upside down rainbow’ people called ‘Smile Rainbow’. (Network picture)”
            Rest of article [Google translate]:

            “These strange phenomena, mainland China Meteorological experts called solar flares and parhelic phenomenon, the phenomenon of refraction of ice crystals in the high-altitude thin cloud, and said that has nothing to do with the "end of the world".

            “It is reported that the smaller the "sun" is actually the true solar Mirage, this particular rare atmospheric phenomenon. Typically, the duration of the "magic date" will not be too long, as short as a few minutes, as long as tens of minutes. The experts said, the sundog phenomenon is actually more demanding. First, sunlight through must be a high-altitude clouds of ice crystals; Second, the clouds are thinner, better transmittance.

          • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

            The most important thing is the angle between the sun and ice as well as observer to be just, just a little slight deviation, it is difficult to find the ‘magic date’ wonders.

            “While experts carried out the rumor, but the users do not buy it, said the brick house rumor, it seems that it is really ah! ‘,’ The experts' remarks, always a kind of pit father trying to hide something behind a cloak to catch foot! ‘"

  • Ontological Ontological

    This triple image from Shanghai is a SUN DOG a common rainbow effect due to ice in the upper atmosphere. It is NOT nibiru or anything other than a light refraction! Google sun dog, or atmosheric refraction.

    • Maggie123

      Hi Ontological – scrolling along, your 'sun dog' note caught my eye. Checked out the photo and yes, I'd agree. I'd never seen them before living at lat.55N but saw several per winter there. I found them lovely. We also regularly had 'ring around the moon' ice crystals. I've moved much farther south but still see ice crystal moon rings at times – they too, are lovely – but less so to me than sun dogs. In these times, small treats of natural phenomenon are very welcome to me! 🙂

      • Radio VicFromOregon

        M123 and Ontological, once i saw a sun dog that actually looked a like the head of a big grinning dog with floppy ears looking down from the sky. Since there was very little wind as high up as the cloud film was, it remained for several minutes. I laughed at the nexus between what my mind was seeing and what the sun and clouds and crystals were making. Of course, from up above, i doubt the image would look at all the same. It was fun.

  • arclight arclight

    hi anne
    sue said you were looking for me..
    here i am 🙂

    been getting up to some mischief though.. is thriving and i am trying to still develop a posting style or styles.. life is a learning curve..

    mt main aim is to bring anti nuke news to europe.. it is not well represented there.. but christina and i are posting alot of world stories too and its being a bit of a learning curve..

    christina is anti consumerism too and makes me feel guilty when i purchase anything 🙂

    actually feel right at home on nuclear news..
    i havent been posting on enenews recently because i have been trying to increase subscriptions to nuclear-news and concentrate my efforts there but i am keeping a general eye on the giongs on here at enenews.. sorry i missed your shout out.. good to see everyone here working at gettting the word out… enenews is the best discussion place on the web for anticorporate anti polluting retoric on the web imo

    so well done everyone for keeping the faith! so to speak 🙂

    luv too you all here
    saikado hantai!!

    • Maggie123

      arclight! So glad to have caught your post! Tried to find your site in my bookmarked links earlier today and could not. Then tried to find it by googling 'arclight' (have you any idea how 'generic' 'arclight' is!) 🙂 In any case, am going straight to your site and bookmarking it in my 'nuke watch' folder, where I can find it. Take care! 🙂

    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Arclight, i will check it out, too, now that i know about it. I'm always on the look out for other sites, and if there is any creative anti-consumerism on it, all the better! I always need tips and support.

      • arclight arclight

        ive just posted some videos from the anti nuke speeches from japan this weekend..

        now off to bed.. some good stuff and a video of the

        iaea in action at their meeting propaganda thing.. gonna watch that tommorrow

        peace and goodnight

  • vivvi

    Well folks, you might find this interesting. The accused shooter in the school massacre … his daddy, Peter Lanza …. is the director of taxation affairs for ….. GENERAL ELECTRIC ENERGY. There is speculation that daddy is scheduled to testify at the LIBOR hearings, Oddly enough the father of the accused Aurora gunman, James Holmes, was also supposed to testify concerning LIBOR. So far not a word. Dont think this father will be saying anything, either.

  • Maggie123

    Viwi – hmm … curiouser and curiouser. Bizarre. Deadly. A few years ago I came across "Confessions of An Economic Hit Man" (John Perkins). Different venue – international 'serious arm twisting' of assorted elected officials, many in Latin American nations. If Perkins or others at his level failed in their "persuasion" (principally bribes of wealth and power, plus implied unpleasant consequences as I recall) – then 'heavy hitters' took over. Lives were lost. Contras were armed; they and/or 'official' police and troops were mentored, coached and trained (some at the SOA, School of the Americas in Georgia.) (SOA since renamed "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation"!)

    Different venues – same general principle: "protect interests of powerful players at ALL costs."

    Worst is that secrecy allows this kind of stuff and often getting at real, inarguable, details is nearly impossible even for the most dedicated. So it's easy for media to dismiss and sideline investigative reporting and whistle blowers – all the more so since media is now owned by so few corps.

    Worse still – all along the way, smaller players (right down to cleaning staff) have mortgages, hopes, dreams, and often at best only 'suspicions' if that. I see no remedy but steady, relentless, digging for info – presenting as scrupulously tight evidence as possible to court of public opinion – and going all out to defend w.blowers. Multiple very long rows to hoe.

  • mungo mungo

    US State Department officials say Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is recuperating at home after sustaining a concussion due to dehydration on Saturday.

    Clinton fell ill with a stomach virus last week. She was forced to cancel a planned trip to Morocco to attend an international conference on Syria.

    She had been expected to testify before Congress this week on the attack on the US consulate in Libya in September that killed the US ambassador and 3 other Americans. But she will be unable to appear for the congressional hearings.

    Clinton has already made clear her intention to step down. During her 4 years in office, she visited 112 countries, the most as a US secretary of state.

    Dec. 16, 2012 – Updated 02:00 UTC (11:00 JST)

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Radiation sickness?

      • WindorSolarPlease

        Maybe anne, it wouldn't surprise me, then this is the time of the year when people get sick, or maybe these are just two excuses she used in not to attend the planned trip to Morocco to attend an international conference on Syria, or to testify before Congress on the attack on the US consulate in Libya? Who knows?

      • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

        How do you get a concussion from the flu?

        • Jebus Jebus

          Well, the flu clouds your mind some, so that you can no longer suppress your conscience, and it knows full well that the policies you support kill and maim thousands of children, now and into the future, and you look into the mirror seeing nothing because you sold your hideous soul to the devil, and with that revelation upon your reeling mind you get dizzy, pass out causing your head to hit the floor. Voila! concussion.
          It also helps to have one, when attending senate hearings…

    • crystalwind crystalwind

      convenient timing of the illness.

  • or-well

    Guns, Fear, Terror!Terror!Terror!
    Endless War, no room for error,
    Winner takes All, no respect for Losers,
    Militarised cops, dissent means bruisers,
    marginalized economically,
    50 million on foodstamps, Banksters go free,
    prison brings profits (and firearm sales too!)
    who can you trust, well not you-know-who
    cuz "they" are either lying – or out to get YOU!
    Play first-person-shooter, get ready for looters,
    drug your kid for a cold, don't just wipe their snooter.
    Fear and Strife, such an old promotion,
    happening now in speeded up motion.

    • or-well

      Fear somebody! Doesn't matter who –
      a Moslem, a Christian, a Hindu, a Jew,
      that "other" Party, Atheists too!
      Fear the IRS, fear Rich and fear Poor,
      fear the Police and PTSD Vets,
      fear your food and fear getting wet,
      fear the Fed and those who lock their doors,
      fear you're unfashionable and fear body odors!
      fear everybody, everything and yourself –
      better get a prescription for your bathroom shelf!
      Fear you won't get "raptured" but your dog will,
      fear back-country roads and Capitol Hill,
      fear living in poverty in your retirement,
      fear speaking out and fear being silent,
      fear you're complacent, fear you're paranoid,
      with enough drugs fear can be enjoyed!
      Fear God is or God isn't, fear the other guys Preacher,
      fear Mother Nature and fear her creatures,
      fear antibiotic-resistant bacteria,
      fear Hillary Clinton and her diarrhea.
      And on and on and on…

      • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

        You're a star, or-well
        noone could've said it better


        • or-well

          B&B, thanks but that's the last thing I want to be!
          There's too many "stars', with gleam of cheap plate,
          celebrity fireflies and media snakes,
          political flashbulbs – the old-fashioned kind –
          POOF they go off, for a moment you're blind…
          ugh, we need substance, not stars and more "heroes",
          not more famous-for-being-famous zeros,
          not more modern-day wannabe Emperor Neros!
          (almost got stumped…better stop!)

      • Maggie123

        So well put, Or-well! 2 days ago a few lyric phrases of Buffy St. Marie's "Little Wheel Spin and Spin, Big Wheel goes Around, Around" came to me:

        "Teach your children who to hate; blame the Jews or your sister Kate – little wheel spin and spin; big wheel goes around, around" … "Add your straw to the camel's load; and pray like hell when the world explodes – little wheel spin and spin, …"

        You've updated her observations to current times, and brought sharp focus to 'fear', which is so very much to the point IMO!!!

        (Now that I think of it – have you ever considered putting your words to tunes or to reciting them over visuals, or in any way thought of getting them into an audio format?) T'would be great to hear them aloud!! 🙂

        • or-well

          Maggie123, maybe I have selective memory, but I don't recall fear being thrust into American life from so many directions as now.
          CNN seems to have been non-stop shooting coverage since it happened, not unexpected as "if it bleeds it leads" and they know a ratings draw, but it's much more than that.
          Despite contrary lip service, they are helping traumatise.
          CNN aside, (and they're not alone in this), I agree with ChasAha below – report, move on. All they know could be summarised in mere moments. It's convenient fear-fodder.
          There IS a lot to be concerned with, but promoted fear and promoted strife are being used to fractionate and refine the populace into ever smaller isolates with heads that can't spin fast enough to keep an eye on every perceived threat, with a limited range of pre-packaged "solutions" on offer, that conveniently suit a limited selection of agendas.

          I can't carry a tune in a bucket, nor play an instrument nor draw stick people! Nor do I have a dramatic speaking voice. So I am content to leave more creative use of my words to others.
          Feel free to recite to your friends!
          Or draw a picture if one comes to mind, or use some lines for a song…

          • Maggie123

            Or-well, No, I don't think selective memory, although I do think that fear is 'embedded' in us in some deep way which I explain to myself as 'at-birth vulnerability'; so I do think it lurks in our nature, especially if not reassured by comforting, encouraging, experience during early years when 'world view' is formed.

            I tend to perceive our particular national culture as carrying a goodly mix of challenging expectations (which, by experience in part, I attribute to what I call 'secular Calvinism') We have high expectations for the individual to have 'no need' of supportive community. (Oversimplified but …)

            Just this minute it occurs to me that what we may have is an *amplification* of culturally embedded anxiety. Fear of 'Reds under the bed' and lessons in 'duck and cover' of the Cold War was 'available' to me as a kid but I don't think I felt it too strongly. Overall, from my kid's p.o.v. it seemed a reasonably pleasant future should be possible.

            I feel like I can 'see' how assorted factors have contributed to where we are today, and regret that 'we' (my parent's generation, my generation as adults) did not pay enough attention even to our own conversations which did include warning ourselves. But this observation is also oversimplified.

            A gem: "heads that can't spin fast enough to keep an eye on every perceived threat" !!

            • or-well

              Maggie123…or…fear themes, guns, nukes, war, linkages…
              at-birth vulnerability+learned authority-response+nationalistic themes+era-specific cultural themes+religion+issue-specific propaganda…
              In a word, conditioning. (perhaps one of the defining characterisitics of last 100 years). Add lack of educational emphasis on independent free thinking questioning.
              Badly simplistic, but…add modern amplification of embedded anxiety, spice with materialistic consumerism, war, economics, health & enviro issues, almost inescapable imagistic violence, drugs…
              It's a wonder we can think at all.
              Re the "shooter" Lanza, such challenges the sensitive mind faces.
              Re psychopaths, such challenges we all face from
              those successfully embedded from among that minority.
              To your post, yes, fear and obedience learned early.
              Individuals expected to "stand alone" yes, more & more, but also to "stand with" or "in acceptance of", in issue-groupings pre-defined in isolation from other issues/groupings.
              That reasonably pleasant future happened, materially, for many, in N. Amer. At such a cost!
              Too much escaped whatever control we may have had, as the mechanisms of "State" and "Business" evolved.
              How much "directed", how much circumstantial and unintentional?
              I agree that fundamental re-examination of "what makes us tick" is needed, alongside the tools and designs of "clockmakers".
              Thoughts, perhaps too abbreviated.

      • NoNukes NoNukes

        or-we'll is Love and Truth! Watch out for Fingers. 😉

      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Worth reading a dozen times more, or-well, our troubadour.

    • aigeezer aigeezer

      War on Terra.

      • charlie3

        Or-well, I usually just lurk these days, but I had to sign in to say how much I love your rhymes. War on Terra, that's perfect.

        • or-well

          charlie3! Nice that you're still around. I recall quite a few name+number folks were here at one time. Thanks, & I too liked aigeezers turn of phrase!

      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Aigeezer, did you ever read Women and Nature by Nancy Griffith? War on Terra.

        • aigeezer aigeezer

          Hi VFO. No, haven't read Griffith – I thought I was coining the phrase but it's too apt for it not to have been used before. I'll add Griffith to my long must-read list.

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Dear NaturalNews readers,

    "In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown, Conn., we bring you only four stories today. I authored all four of these, and they offer analysis and viewpoints on society, America's culture of violence, gun control and more.

    "First, we have the suspicious fact that the shooting was originally reported as being carried out by "a second gunman," but the mainsteam media very quickly scrubbed any mention of a second gunman and resorted to the default of a "lone gunman."

    "My next article explores the mind-altering medications children are put on these days. Those medications are routinely linked to violent behavior and have accounted for numerous school shootings over the years:

    My third article explores the issue of violent media programming. Today's violent video games are so ultra-realistic and bloody that they are essentially mass-murder training simulations for children. They are almost universally played by young males, and Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter, was also a player of video games:

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      " Finally, on the issue of gun control, we explore the practical reality of gun control and why gun restrictions on lawful citizens actually end up concentrating guns in the hands of criminals:

      "Here at Natural News, our hearts go out to the victims of this tragic shooting. And yet, at the same time, we must realize that Big Pharma kills ten times as many people EVERY DAY in America, and no President sheds a tear for those victims. One thing that's certain in America today is that sorrow and outrage are highly selected political tactics being used to achieve particular policy goals. The people in Washington are actually celebrating this shooting because it now gives them an excuse to pursue their desired policy changes while claiming it's all 'for the children'."

      • jump-ball jump-ball

        According to authorities not beholden to big pharma, as are our congress, federal agencies, the executive, the presidential administration, and recently the SCOTUS, the fourth leading cause of death in the u.s., behind heart disease, cancer and stroke, is from prescribed drugs to in-hospital patients, totalling over 100,000 fatalities per year, but the american corporate press has self-servingly omitted these fatalities, and they no longer appear in cause-of-death search results, from goog, the corporate press, the federal agencies or establishment medical institutions, all of whom are now re-writing history as it happens, unlike previous eras, when history was written by the victors. The truth is still out there, usually from a non-corporate-controlled foreign source, on a 10th search page, where you have to really dig to find it.

        • jump-ball jump-ball

          106,000 deaths per year, from in-hospital prescribed drugs, equals 290 deaths per day, just over Mike Adams comment on big pharma killing 10 times the number of adults and children tragically lost in Newtown.

    • jump-ball jump-ball

      "Today's violent video games are…essentially mass-murder training simulations for children."

      And these children, with acquired visual acuity and manual dexterity, and learned emotional detachment, will soon be the young adults selected to pilot america's rapidly growing fleet of lethal drones operating around the world in the effort to contain terrorism.

      Medea Benjamin's book 'Drone Warfare: Killing by Remote Control (2012)' (describing, among other aspects, how the deadly drone decisions are made weekly in the white house on "terror Tuesday"), may be of interest in learning how computer technology is influencing not only the future lives of our children, but even worse, the actions of our government authorities .

      • owlafaye

        "jump-ball" is correct. Today's video games are training tools for murderers.

        My early gun training had emphasis on the dangers, the no-no's, the accidents that could happen, the safety of yourself and others and proper gun conduct at ALL times. I am a gun owner, raised to be responsible to my family, friends and community.

      • crystalwind crystalwind

        "And these children…" will be voting, too.

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    BREAKING NEWS: CT School Shooter Killer Link To LIBOR SCANDAL?
    “The father of Newtown Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza is Peter Lanza who is a VP and Tax Director at GE Financial. The father of Aurora Colorado movie theater shooter James Holmes is Robert Holmes, the lead scientist for the credit score company FICO. Both men were to testify before the US Sentate in the ongoing LIBOR scandal. The London Interbank Offered Rate, known as Libor, is the average interest rate at which banks can borrow from each other. 16 international banks have been implicated in this ongoing scandal, accused of rigging contracts worth trillions of dollars. HSBC has already been fined $1.9 billion and three of their low level traders arrested.”

    The nucleocrats will do anything to stay in power.

    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      The only thing this story tells me is that fathers involved in big money might not all be able to bring up empathic children.
      Which doesn't exactly come as a surprise, does it?

      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        I don't think it has anything to do with money and has everything to do with the lack of appropriate mental health care in this country. JMHO

    • many moons

      I think it's an incredible coincidense….what are the chances of 2 men about to testify in the same banking scandle have sons who shoot up a bunch of people…..I wonder what the likelyhood of that is????

    • kez

      The LIBOR scandal story is a hoax. It has been confirmed neither of the men were scheduled to testify before Senate.

      • Maggie123

        Thank you for this, Kez – I really did not want to incorporate such a possibility into my efforts to analyze this dreadful shooting!

      • Jebus Jebus

        LOL! Go to Muckety > Talking Points Memo

        Expand Matthew Cooper +

        Who do you see as a source…

        Who do you see as a witness…

        Who do you see as a spouse…

        Expand Mandy Grumwald +

        My oh my, what do you see…

        Click the Conde Nast Portfolio +

        Click the The Smartest Guys in the Room +

        You see, it is good to see, with eyes open…

        As the world burns…

        • kez

          Hi Jebus … Re: Libor scandal hoax. Yes muckety is an interesting site; catnip for conspiracy theorists I believe it's been called.

          I am not into that sort of thing actually … there is enough wrong with our world that I prefer not to speculate about at what those connections mean. And the volume of googling entailed to research is not of value to me on this one.

          If you would care to explain what your note means specifically I'd be more likely to consider.

          The fact is this story is completely unverifiable. Even the version has been taken down now.

          • Jebus Jebus

            Here we go, I'll keep this generic, so as not to offend. If one were to actually look into the elite political players that are implicated in the Libor rate fixing scandal, one would see the same names that the "tin foil muckity map" shows. And that "tin foil muckity map" shows the connection to the "absolute last word" Talking Points Memo site that is the political mouthpiece for those same said elite political players. But if one were not into that sort of thing then one might not even lift ones head up from grazing on the green pastures, dotted with daffodils and lillys, to see that there really are wolves out there…

            • kez

              Hi Jebus … OK , let's not offend. But I will be frank. What the fuck are elites? Isn't one of the muckety connections to Taliking Points Karl Rove? Is he an elite? I am very serious … I don't have a clue.

              As a fundamentalist to the 2nd amendment are you also a fundamentalist to the philosophy that it takes the innocence of a child to recognize goodness?

              Or that goodness requires cynicism suspicion and really big weapons?

              Hard lines … yes?

  • I may have a bit of a different take when it comes to people who shoot people.

    #1 They should not be made famous by the media plastering their photos and names everywhere.

    That gives the killers exactly what they wanted. They win every time their photo or name is even mentioned. It also gets others to want to do the same , far more so than playing a video game.

    I am all for free speech and freedom of the press, don't get me wrong, but it seems like a common sense policy to not make these 'nut jobs' icons for idiots.

    The media is backwards.

    Stories of killings like these should only be in full print detail once the case is closed or the final verdict has come down. Then read about it. There's no need to report this type of crime in real time.

    On the other hand, major historical catastrophic events, like Fukushima, get only minor reporting of issues long after the fact. So as to weaken the impact. When really, THIS should be reported in real time.

    • Unknown Unknown

      I agree with what you are saying, but I think the problem is who gets to decide which event is or is not reported in full. In many cases, this decision seems to fall to the ones holding the purse strings –TEPCO, BP, Dow, etc. No matter how imperfect, I feel the only answer for now is full disclosure all the time.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Michael Moore Calls For “Strict Gun Control” After School Massacre

    Oh..and Piers Morgan..
    I live in an area full of wildlife..bears..coyotes..etc.
    What shall I use to defend myself?

    I also live in America..and being armed is my right.
    Taking guns not going to make those that have them more responsible.It will not decrease the amount of guns in illegal possession..because this country is involved in illegal gun sales..worldwide… including the streets here in the USA.

    How easily Moore..can give away the constitutionally given rights of fellow Americans?
    How is that?

    • Maggie123

      Hi Heart – I deeply appreciate where M.M. comes from ("Roger and Me" years ago among his best!) I also appreciate how offensive he is even to people who can benefit from his themes. He is still vilified on g.control – those who hate him miss thinking more deeply about health care for example.

      I wonder if he epresents an urban/rural reality split. He may 'intellectually' know rural dwellers have a different gun culture than urban, but may not 'emotionally know' the difference.

      I grew up on US farm with sheep & coyotes, raised cattle in Canadian bush country among bear, and now live in rural US town where bears browse domestic fruit in season. So far, firearms against critters have never been needed. Knowing how to live 'with' the wildlife has worked.

      But for hunting, and for rare animal need situations – rural people rely especially on long guns. People a few generations off-farm may not appreciate this.

      Personally, I think the US badly needs to examine it's "love affair with guns". I see no reason why restrictions on *some* guns aren't worth considering. I don't believe ordinary people should be made criminal for owning ordinary firearms in ordinary numbers, but think everyone running about armed is weak strategy for building healthy community.

      Joe Bageant, staunch ally of 'red neck' culture, best voice, IMO:

      Sadly deceased – link = his thoughts on g.control.

      • or-well

        Oh my, Joe Bageant – "social and interpersonal brutalities and attitudinal cruelties" ! sometimes well revealed by popular modes of humor, sometimes the comments and responses here and "there is money in fear" oh yeah from the vast "security" apparatus of "State" to the extra lock on the door to psychiatrically defining normal emotional states as "disorder" and promoting a pharmaceutical response as desireable.

        • Jebus Jebus

          minutes from recent .gov think tank meeting…

          The masses are seeing through the lies that we have fed them, what do we do?
          Shut down the internet, it is too free with the truth.
          No, we can't do that, they will know and use other means that can't be tracked so easily.
          Well, we could start locking up some and censure the press.
          We already own the press, the masses don't believe them anymore and we make people dissapear daily.
          Lets shut down the truth telling sites on the interweb thingie.
          No, they just put up more and start telling the truth again.
          They have all those weapons, they might challenge us on the lies.
          I know, lets strike fear into their hearts just as this "end of the world" thing hits.
          How do we do that?
          We'll show them that they are the problem, with all those guns that silly constitution gave them.
          We will set it up so that the guns they have are killing their own, we already have them drugged and sleeping.
          Then we can enact legislation that removes the weapons from society.
          Ya, that sounds good, lets do that.
          But what about all those shovels and pitchforks they have?
          One thing at a time, we don't want to wake them…

      • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

        @maggie123.I try to keep my posts to a minimum here..and hopefully they require little response.
        As a single women in a rural community..I don't find a lot of theory self defense.
        I am armed for both personal defense..from human and animal alike.

        I think a society that is trained to respect firearms is a start.
        Who will come save me..HS? fellow Enenewers?

        Joe..somebody.. down the roads and "the down the road"opinion..not too impressive.

        • Maggie123

          Heart of the Rose – I certainly did not mean to suggest you (or anyone) should adopt my ideas for personal choice. I searched specifically to find what, if anything, Joe B. might have to say on the topic because I trusted him to speak on behalf of Americans, especially rural Americans, re gun rights. His entire reputation as a journalist/writer was one of staying in close touch with, and speaking on behalf of, a portion of the population that is sometimes described as 'red neck' – a label he did not deny and even embraced.

          Don't want to make my possibly offensive post any worse – I myself have spoken up again and again across years on behalf of all kinds of rural cultural ways. Rural people are "my people" by birthright, by childhood, and by on-going rural living and friendships. I, too, have no idea who might come to my aide, even if injured from falling off a retaining wall while trying to repair it – and certainly not in emergency if seriously threatened by an intruder.

          I meant to make no judgement – just suspected Joe B's thoughts would be more thorough and fully mindful than mine, and included notes on my personal experience (due to your mention of wildlife).

    • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication

      +1 Heart.

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    The media myth of intelligence and Asberger's Syndrome and shooters could be propaganda to help bring about the desire of Brezensky to install a one world government ruled only by a small, elite military.

  • kez

    I used to argue for rational gun control … it's a lost cause mostly and a waste of time bc gun lovers always evoke that we have the right by constitution.

    I used to believe ordinary citizens didn't need assault level rapid fire extended magazine guns. How many people did an ordinary citizen actually think they were going to be threatened by at once? 50 or 60? Like soldiers in war?

    Even the argument that only criminals would own them still used to fall flat with me. Eventually wouldn't many of the illegals be confiscated during comission of crime … or just get old? Why make them so easy to replace?

    And the argument that massacres could still be perpretated by hammers or shovels or knives … sure I'll even buy into that …

    Alhough I have to shed a tear for the brave women who stood between this kid and their students … their kids … and died. If he'd only had a shovel or a hammer … or even a knife I believe they'd have gotten a piece of his sorry ass.

    so yeah … I've jumped on board. In fact when the guns evolve to shoot DU silver bullets I might even be the first in line to buy one.

    It's my f'g right.

    • kez

      Typo *perpetrated* … 4th paragraph

    • Unknown Unknown

      The constitution and Bill of Rights were both written by humans, so they can be changed by humans. The world has changed a lot since 1787.

      • kez

        Indeed … it is hardly an 18th century mindset anymore.

        • Jebus Jebus

          The constitution was not meant to be changed, only amended.
          The second amendment to the constitution was put in place to allow the citizens of the united states of america to protect themselves from any entity that threatens their rights to freedom.
          It is intended as a counter to government tyranny and oppression.
          It was intended as a counter to a too far reaching government, militarily or otherwise, taking away the rights of the peoples.
          Take away that right and you loose all the other rights and you might as well start learning to obey like the chinese.
          It still applies today, more than ever…

  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    Did you guys see the asteriod that just missed us 2 days ago ?

  • jump-ball jump-ball

    mr. obama: i need to tell you how deeply i resent your arrogant, presumptuous and inarticulate reasoning that includes me in your latest assertive definition of the collective "we that must change" in order to prevent further tragedies such as the latest Newtown CT massacre.

    After manipulating us to give up our otherwise inalienable 2nd amendment gun rights, it is just another short step for you to ask us to voluntarily include ourselves in the "collective we" that must similarly forfeit our gold and silver holdings to the federal government so as to enable the u.s. to qualify for participation in a new gold-backed world currency, and avoid the otherwise impending tragedy of the worldwide collapse and massacre of the value of the massively over-indebted u.s. dollar.

    As you continue to define and assert your vision of how the "collective we" – "must change", so as to prevent further, inevitable, physical or financial u.s. massacres, please, include me out.

    • Unknown Unknown

      I have not seen any evidence that the U.S. government is planning to seize all the private holdings of gold and silver, but I have seen the damage that an AR 15 assault rifle can do to a group of innocent children. So I think I will focus my efforts on solving the problem that I know exists, as opposed to the one that may not. Mr. Obama, you may include me in your collective "we".

    • PoorDaddy PoorDaddy

      I would have been alot more impressed with his speech the other day if he said he was immediately cancelling the drone program he loves so much so no more babies would be the victims of violence, and the US would no longer use DU weapons, and would "clean up" Iraq. All children are precious, not just American kids. The Presidential outrage is hypocritical, transparently agenda driven and ugly…..but expected.

  • kez

    Everything else aside …

    It is time for this country to discuss rational gun control.

    If those 6 and 7 yo babies' murders didn't touch your heart then nothing will and I stand by my previous post …

    We will only find more destructive weapons …

    And call it our "freedom" to own them.

    • jump-ball jump-ball

      After attempting to prevent further killings and massacres during 4 decades of terrorist attacks, by establishing full-time military and police presence at every public, government, school and other soft target, Israel admitted that the cost was too high, the protection was still vulnerable, and made the decision to instead arm the citizenry, which resulted in 34% of the adult population carrying guns.

      Awareness that 170 out of 500 theater movie viewers were armed, that 1/3 of shopping mall traffic, 1/3 of adult university students and faculty and 1/3 of the public in all locations, were armed, would be the best deterrant to armed attack that I can imagine.

      John Lott has done the math:

      • Jebus Jebus

        Agreed 100%, pull a gun in public without cause, three people are there instantly to give you pause or eliminate the threat. Saves a lot on court costs too…

        Remember, there is no superman, no batman, or lone ranger. The only one who can protect you in public is you.

        The average citizen is not going to shoot up a theatre or shopping mall. But he will protect his family if the unaverage citizen presents a threat.

        Is it better to allow a deranged individual, who is going to get a weapon legal or not, unfettered access to running screaming targets while waiting for the police to arrive or is it better for the potential victims to engage and distract the shooter with force, allowing more potential victims to flee the scene, potentially saving lives?
        I state this within the context of these mass shooting scenario's that are all to familiar lately.

      • kez

        Jumpball … I cannot consider John Lott a credible scientist in ths debate. Anyone who has to resort to inventing a fake personality named Mary Rosh to hide behind in order to pump book sales and create a sense of authenticity is just a bullshitter to me.

        Sorry … I think every time he is called upon by media as a so called expert there should be a mandatory disclaimer that he used this ruse. Every single interview should introduce him as both John Lott and Mary Rosh.

    • Not the answer
      many problems to deal with,
      disarming the public is the worst thing to do here.

    • Jebus Jebus

      If everyone packed a piece responsibly, then only the criminals would live in fear…

      • Unknown Unknown

        Just buying a gun legally does not guarantee that the individual will use it responsibly. Before the shooting this man was responsible and then he was not. How do you predict when this change will happen and to whom? You cannot expect to defend against every act of violence. All a society can do is try to limit the damage such individuals can inflict on others. Giving him an AR15 assault rifle greatly increased the potential damage that this one 20 year old man could inflict.

  • yogda yogda

    "Gun Control" Is a globalist scam.

  • kez

    Really? Gun control is a globalist scam? Or it is an inalienable right to own guns.

    The bigger the more powerful the more deadly … the better.

    Thank you so so much and this is truly wonderful news. This is the world's salvation.

    It's so obvious … and explains the core of mankind's drive and existence.

    The biggest gun wins …

    Like I said … make mine a nuke …. doublesized please!!

    • Jebus Jebus

      Guns have been with man for over 1500 years…

      If you take away the right for law abiding citizens, only deranged shooters will have guns…

      You have more chances at eliminating nuclear weapons, than you do guns, and the only way that nuclear weapons will be eliminated, is if they are used…

  • kez

    Most if not all of us arrived at the site because of 311.

    Most if not all of us hate the destruction nuclear has done to this world.

    Nuclear was not deployed as a clean carbon free power source.

    Nukes were developed as a weapon of war …. as the ultimate big gun. And they were used and are threatened constantly to be used again as the ultimate big gun in political power plays.

  • kez

    Our society depends on and is structured upon deadly force to maintain order.

    Therefore we will always be chasing our nuclear destroy the whole world tails.

    And it will always be the biggest gun wins.

    Each notch up on the global weapons scale will bring a corresponding notch up on the individual scale.

    It will always be the biggest gun wins.

    Globally or individually it will always be the biggest gun wins.

    And the degree of death power the weapons used will escalate accordingly.

    • kez

      Until someone really gets the concept of swords to ploughs.

      Until then we really watch children die and die and die.

      And wonder why why why.

    • Radio VicFromOregon

      But, gee, Kez, it's my constitutional right to have a nuclear power plant that makes fuel for my constitutionally guaranteed nuclear weapons, and besides, nuclear energy has been with us as long as the solar system. I mean, look at the sun, after all. Restrictions on nuclear power plants is essentially a deceptive, liberal way to ban nuclear weapons. It's an intrusion of the federal government against the most important idea of this great country – me. In fact, if every teacher packed a nuclear device strapped to their hip, kids would be safe from any and all attacks. Study after study shows that when you ban nuclear weapons, the incidence of war goes way, way up because you've just lost your nuclear deterrent. It doesn't matter that i've been in 5 wars since i've possessed the bomb. I was just defending myself. I didn't start them. They wanted my stuff, my oil. Nobody takes my oil. I have a right to defend what's mine. I have a right to defend myself by any means possible. It's my constitutional right. The NRA's most cherished rationales applied to the bigger gun, kez, seem somehow slightly manic. Did i say manic? Crap. Where's my prozac?

      • kez

        Hi Vic … thanks. You take best of care. You are a wonderful soul around here.

        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Now i'm blushing.

        • Maggie123

          Deep Agreement! Thank you Kez for words I could only borrow to best say what I felt as I read ENE this morning. It was as if overnight the conversation became deeper, more even more informative, and powerfully 'on point' – Vic, I even visualized you addressing a conference, bringing attention to where, IMO, it ultimately needs to be.

          • Radio VicFromOregon

            M123, stories about that later maybe in a different venue, but yesterday i regained something i had not touched upon for a very long time. Those aspects about ourselves that we forget or lay aside for what seemed good reasons at the time, and maybe were. We all put them aside to some degree, needing to focus on what surely else demands our attention. I needed many people here, you included, and Kez, you, too, to get back to that part of me stuffed away on a dark, dusty shelf. I am indebted and grateful to you all for your light.

          • kez

            Vic and Maggie … awww … time for a hug. 🙂

            Do take care. Peace to you.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Drone Operator asks “Did we Just Kill a Kid”, Commander Tells him it Was Just a Dog with 2 Legs

    It's evidently ok..when children are by 'authority'. (sarc)

    • richard richard

      next time you see a drone, get your rifle out and shot the fokker down.

      these mongrels kill children and women and other innocent people nearly everyday.

      rotten mongrels the US military. Not happy with vaporising over a 100,000 japanese, they wish to wander the globe sniping and murdering innocents everywhere. Mongrels.

      and to think, your tax dollars pay for the murders!

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    No big… when children are killed by..our government…right out of New Mexico ..with a joystick.


      speaking of joysticks, "There he (Adam Lanza) would spend hours on his computer, much of the time devoted to playing violent games."

      • I'm 52, and I've spent many many hours playing violent video games over the years. I've not once thought about harming myself, or others as a result. The difference between me (and those like me), and those people who commit these horrific crimes – is that I understand, and live in, reality. The people carrying out these crimes can not distinguish between reality and fantasy – making this a mental health issue. A mentally disturbed indivudal could of entered the school with a chain saw and accomplished the same thing. Should we ban chain saws on a pre-emptive basis, or boost mental health screening & treatment?


          there is something you're skirting JHewes76, in your comparison of influences; and that's age. The socialization of those who preceded your generation leaves much wanting. Add to this, the familial fragmentation of American households, mind-boggling exposure to violent imagery/content in media (all forms), complete lack of moral socialization, neurological 'experimentation' of children by the pharmaceutical industry and it should come as no surprise that we're witnessing such depraved indifference by young adults. This nightmare – and those that came before and promise to come tomorrow – has long been in the making…

          • @Aftershock., I absolutely agree. So much factors into the mental state of an indivudal. My biggest question so far… Why so much autism and asperger's now.??? Pharmaceuticals, Vaccine's, toxins?? Why won't the MSM ask the tough questions?


              couple of reasons JHewes76, MSM won't weigh-in on the pharmaceutical influences behind the many incidents of violence by many people who are on these drugs: advertisement revenues, NWO objectives and incurred liability.

              We're long down the path of consolidating power over the masses. Media plays an integral part in both shaping and realizing this goal. If you want in on this game, then you'll quietly play by the rules of those in power. The reward will be both power and tangible profits (in this case) from advertising.

              For big-pharma, the money is their reward for the wholesale destruction of the human spirit and society at large. Their goal is to be the future glue that shapes the destiny of the human species. From body to spirit, they desire complete dominance.

              Any logical analysis will yield the absurdity behind the rational for gun control. But logic becomes an orphan when it comes to the politically correct objectives of the elite. No rational entity would sanction wanton violence. In truth, no one who supports the right to bear arms is comfortable with the resulting destruction of firearms. But until such time as humans are able to develop the means to protect the citizenry from the crimes of both individuals and the state, we'll have to suffer the harsh realities of these weapons…

            • jec jec

              Radiation exposure to fetus…??!! Japan, if this is the case, should have a really HIGH autism rate soon. If they can have normal children, physically.

        • eatliesndie eatliesndie

          " boost mental health screening & treatment?" Yes please. And a big focus on military and government as a priority.

          • NoPrevarication NoPrevarication


            That's sort of like the pre-crime bit. If they can now tell who is about to commit a crime…why don't they use it on government first?

          • jec jec

            Sadly, mental health is in the "dark ages." A relative who has a 'autism' spectrum disease, there is NO help for him with treatments. We have looked and looked..lots of "theorys" fixes..and the doctors have no clue..and no RESULTS available for various treatments. Now for medications, there is some kind of record..for suicide/violent acts..but no real idea of how to keep these kids on an even keel. Most with significant issues, live at home with family (al la the CT shooter) or in group homes(covered by parents). We tried to get assistance and were turned down for Social Security (he need to have health insurance to cover the 800.00 a month medication he takes) as he walks and talks, looks normal unless you get into a conversation. And he only has one friend, a cat, due to his social development. Hes a gentle giant of 6 ft +, should he become upset and if someone suddenly grabbed him..he could react poorly. I fear him getting into a situation where police officers are not aware of his disablity, having someone try to HOLD him. He could "phase" out..and have almost superman strength in his reaction. A reaction he may not even remember. And a deadly reaction by the authorities with force/tasers (they do not work well on those with compromised nervous systems) or guns.
            So..massive changes are needed…to both protect other..and to protect the illness.

            • Maggie123

              Jec – my deepest thoughts of support go to you, your family, the young man with autism. I've heard interviews with parents who describe the endless search for healing, and the worries of sudden 'phase out' as you describe.

              You do not mention involvement with a local or internet support group – and I know that yet more "helpful suggestions" can be exasperating, but here are a couple of links that may be communities of interest if you've not checked them out:

              I recognize my obvious ignorance – and don't want to be intrusive – but I guess I feel I want to offer 'something'.

              Take care …

    • Maggie123

      Heart of the Rose – I've had the same line of thought. So much so that it preoccupied and distressed me all morning. I could not think how to express it with a post to the White House or my Washington reps. As it turned out during the day, as I listened to a few alternative radio podcast programs, others brought this up. (I've not sent my thoughts to Washington yet.)

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    An NYU Grad Student is Tweeting Every Drone Strike by the US Since 2002 after Apple Rejected his iPhone App

    Here is what I like to see..pushback.

    • eatliesndie eatliesndie

      …..something keeps occurring to me. Lots of drone strikes, lots of dead children and destroyed lives and families – for years there is a long trail of carnage left by the us military/government- yet this recent shooting event somewhere not too far from NY at a primary/elementary school….. I best shut up before uncle sam sends a drone over my way.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose in the loins..if you

  • WindorSolarPlease

    These people did an amazing job in making these videos

    BP Oil Spill Gulf OF Mexico Footage and Images.





    important behind-the-scenes info…

    "An LDP win will usher in a government committed to . . . a pro-nuclear energy policy despite last year's Fukushima disaster . . ."

    Conservatives sweep to power in faltering Japan

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Another coincidence:

    a v m
    December 14, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    “Suzanne Collins, author of The Hunger Games
    “Collins resides in Sandy Hook, Connecticut, with her husband and their two children.
    “This horrific crime was perpetrated in the town that the author of Hunger Games lives.
    “These are never random events.
    “This is clearly a deliberate chosen and symbolic false flag – a child sacrifice ritual that the Illuminati love so much….”

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      John Robb
      December 15, 2012 at 7:47 pm
      “Gun control advocate? Have the deaths of innocents at the hands of drunk drivers spurred Bloomberg to become an automobile control advocate? Hey, let’s ban cars! Yes, there are a few different avenues we can take to address the problem, but FIRST LET US RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM. All of the events cited by Mr. Bloomberg involved perpetrators tweaked by psychiatric medications (prescription drugs). If Bloomberg wants to be an advocate he’d do far better advocating against psych meds. In doing so he might see the bigger picture and make the connection that school shootings are a small part of a larger problem. More people die EVERY DAY from deaths related to prescription drugs than those who died at Sandy Hook. If Bloomberg advocated a ban on psychiatric medications he’d get no resistence from me. If he advocated a ban on gun access for people on psych meds he’d get no resistence from anyone but a few people on psych meds. His advocacy for banning guns is as ludicrous as banning automobiles to prevent DWIs. Hey, let’s just ban people. That’s the ultimate solution for a people control advocate. No people – no one gets hurt!”

      • Let's face it people, the REAL agenda is not gun control… it's citizen control. The gov't is not free to do whatever it wishes until it's citizens are disarmed. You know it won't stop with assault rifles. Only 12% of crimes committed are with assault rifles. That means 88% were committed with handguns. Don't fool yourselves – a gunman could kill 10 people with a hunting rifle, and a revolver. It doesn't take a college grad to figure out that the 1st step, is assault rifles, and magazines – but they intend to ride this thing all the way to a ban. (Like in Great Britian)


          spot on JHewes76. They're going for the '911 bum-rush' to get everyone on board. Take away our rights and the means to defend ourselves and what are we left with?

          • @Aftershock, Case in point: The "Patriot" Act. They rammed that through, and most legislators didn't even read it. Stoke the fear among the public, then tell 'em you can protect them… if they are willing to give up certain rights. Thomas Jefferson said this; "Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither" So American's should ask themselves this; What Freedoms/Rights are you willing to sacrifice to be "safe". This is important, because make no mistake… you WILL be asked to sacrifice more of them.


              well JHewes76, none of this should come as a surprise to trend watchers. Problem is, we've all woken up to their tired game. It's now coming down to the wire. Like so much else, they'll use innocent children to get us to conform to their agenda; children they care nothing for and children who are tomorrow's promised victims of repressive globalism.

              Recall the distribution of millions of rounds and thousands of assault weapons within numerous government agencies and it's apparent they anticipate a war with the citizenry. They'll stop at nothing to destroy what's left of this nation. Just look at who's selling the gun control legislation and you'll have no doubt as to who's behind this effort…

              • @Aftershock; I've always wondered why the Social Security Administration needed 100,000+ rounds of .40 Cal Hollow Point ammo. Well, they seem to be well stocked with .40 Cal Hollow Point ammo, body bags, and death certificates… so the the question is why.


                  look into why Fast and Furious was initiated by the DOJ and you'll know exactly what they're up to and why…

  • Anthony Anthony

    UFOs Over Fukushima — And Everywhere Else… (continued)
    by L. WRIGHT

    K. February 2010, and Finland in January of 2011.

    • Holland Holland

      **The good news is that those from above may be here to help us with the mess that has been made on our planet.**

      Don't count on it..:)

      • richard richard

        thanks Holland, that's it, don't count on any externalised or mythical entity.

        The situation will only be solved by humans sacrificing themselves to the nuke altar.

        Any thoughts beyond that is simply daydreaming.

  • CB CB

    48 hr earthquake warning; (6.0 to 7.0) earthquake is likely in Japan in next 48 hrs – most likely near Miyazaki –

    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Hey, CB, thanks so much for posting this.

      • CB CB

        Hi Vic, they are not associated with the USGS earthquake prediction site, but elude to use info from the DEMETER Satellite Observations of Particle Burst.

        • Radio VicFromOregon

          Ah! Has a correlation been made or maybe people are seeing a possible pattern? I know there are some possible predictive methods measuring EM waves discharging from the Earth at a certain location, but, not causing the quake. I had thought the image was generated from that.

  • kez

    Re: mental health care and Newtown shootings.

    I am sympathetic to this leg of the debate; that we as nation are woefully inconsiderate to providing mental health services.

    However this kid's sadly deceased Mom bragged about her gun collection and was reported to have known her son was mentally problematic.

    The family was rich. She was very well provided for and had ample $ for health care for her son in the divorce settlement not to mention the father who still had some responsibilty for his son.

    It's not the same as a struggling mom trying to keep food on the table.

    She had the means to give her son the best mental health care.

    She was showing off her newest gun acquisition just prior to the massacre.

    Something is seriously wrong here in blaming the tragedy solely on mental health .. or that she was truly a responsible gun owner … or that she should ever have had those weapons in her house at all.

    K … I am done here. Like I said I know arguing gun control is a lost cause. Sorry … felt a moment of the old zeal believing change could happen …

    • Maggie123

      Kez – your observations, IMO, confirm what I believe – there is an entire culture and it's history we'd be wise to examine: beliefs, 'enthusiasms', materialism, empire-building, … (poverty, loss of interest in commons, stunning rates of incarceration…) … more. Don't know if you and I would necessarily agree on what would go on the list but to me both mental health issues and the 'guns rights debate' are symptomatic. I've caught a few hints today in other news sources (podcasts) that 'deeper study of culture' is called for, … I take it as a positive sign but don't expect such reflective study to 'take hold'. Truth is, my mind is so wide-roaming these days on topics and issues that show up at ENE that I'm both extremely grateful for this community and absolutely unable to think of anything reasonable to say!

      • kez

        Dear Maggie … you are a sensitive and very intelligent articulate empath.

        And being all those things … noble as they are … brings pain especially when contemplating the state of our world and what we leave to the next generation.

        Please do care for yourself and find some downtime to refresh.

        I am pleased to dialogue with you here. You are another here I consider a remarkable soul, gifted with an ability to pacify a debate.

        My best regards.

        • Maggie123

          Thank you, Kez – I benefit so much from you and others here. A rich human community, offering many gifts – including, for me, opportunity to reflect on focus that matches the 'who' that I seem to be. I do find need to withdraw, pull back, from time to time. I check here nearly every day regardless.

          Motivation to explore roots of human possibility, dilemma that brings disappointment, and to propose shifts of understanding that seem promising yet unexplored to me, seems (looking back) to have been with me 'forever'. Curious, isn't it!

          For me it's all 'of a piece' – earth/life care and 'the human factor'. And so long as we've got the mess that we've got on our hands – IMO, "we're not there yet". I do think I've learned to become more comfortable with the contradiction between refusing to give up while simultaneously appreciating the "likely impossibility of it all". (And even in saying that, have to stop myself from tossing in many qualifications to 'temper' "impossibility" as a concept!) 🙂

          BTW – of "downtime to refresh", DID has introduced me to 'herbronnen', the practice of 'rejuvenation', of returning to the spring, the source. Not a new idea but what a lovely word/meaning! On-line search brings lots of marketing of retreats, but I like to think of it as an ever-present ever available 'awareness' so have benefited without need to go anywhere! 🙂

    • Radio VicFromOregon

      Don't lost that zeal, kez, k?

  • behappy1

    false info online a crime
    Connecticut Police Spokesman Newtown Will Prosecute Independant Journalis

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    TY, be happy. Freedom of speech is over. They are going to prosecute independent journalists and anyone who posts any links to the independent journalists on any social media will also be prosecuted.

    Whatever happened to the constitution?

    Also, I posted on the General Discussion Forum that the purpose of the the nuclear safety conference near Fukushima has stated that there will be only one voice on any nuclear accident, and that anything else said is based on 'poor science'. When you squash scientific endeavors, you are back to the Middle Ages.

    They are also posting listening devices on public transportation. And they can hack into cell phones to listen to any conversation.

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      Dec. 21 won't be the end of the world. TPTB will try to make it the end of freedom and end to the possibility of good health.

      • richard richard

        only three sleeps to go.. i was just thinking about how I look forward to the day .. after.

        bring on 2013 and puts this 2012 superstition.

        What's next? 2016 I heard was the next 'prophecy smothercy'.

    • richard richard

      Let them hear anything or read anything they like Anne.. cause it's only us defending ourselves against the crimes and suffering being thrust upon the general population.

      Let TPTB know the anger and frustration that is pent up against them.

      Speak loudly and clearly of the corruption and the abomination that is the media.mob.corp.guv

      Ensure you post everywhere, and always hope that someone is listening in, someone is reading, someone is wasting their time supporting the crimes of corporate fascist governments.

      Send them after me, I'll make sure they remember the day. I've got nothing to lose.

      I invite the scum to come after me. It won't be pretty.

      Oh, that reminds me, I hope everyone is doing their daily one hour exercise.

    • behappy1

      But hey its for a good cause,
      the constitution had to go to win this here war on terror.
      To sacrifice the 1st amendment the freedom of speech
      is a small price for the children.

      Other children are now filled with terror,
      we must have drones to watch over them.

      • richard richard

        Drones, the new Angels 🙂

        • Jebus Jebus

          of death… 🙁

        • Radio VicFromOregon

          richard, one of my neighbors makes drones for a living. He also used to help make nuclear power plants. He also used to help build computers. He has discomfort about the nuke plant, but, says very little and even less about the drones. He's decided to retire early. Why i mention this is because watching him for the past 2 years as he has done this work was to watch him disappear, become withdrawn, 2 dimensional, almost haunted. He probably rationalized this as better than bombs, one of many Americans who believe the 9/11 tale and the necessity of war in such cases. He's giving up a considerable chunk of money to resign early, though, you and i would say he should resign now, and not "early". I'm not sure what his awareness is, but, he's just an engineer geek who started out at Tectronix wanting to problem-solve engineering and electronic challenges. I will be watching to see if he starts to regain his self pride back. He may not understand why he has become so uncomfortable with himself. I don't know. But, his look is now much like those of Marines i know who had gone into Fallujah, and, despite their military training to compartmentalize, started to doubt.

          • richard richard

            Curiously Vic, I was pondering some of the social thinking of drones not long before your post.

            Most weapons of 'yesteryear' were generally accepted and praised by the community, probably due to the safety and defences.

            I'm thinking of things like the Spitfire, and ships etc as some examples.

            But the drones, they don't seem to have the same social appeal – they've received little community 'praise' (or even awareness, maybe) and a high level of disdain tends to follow them.

            They just seem to be too close to the 'Terminator' is one possibility.

            If I was your neighbour and realised what my work was doing, … well, I don't think I'd even be doing it, but if, inadvertently I ended up there…, and then had an epithany of the monster I was working on, I'd soon be out the door. There are probably some prickly contracts involved though, I'd imagine.

    • vital1 vital1

      "They can hack into cell phones to listen to any conversation." Anne, that is not all they can do.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        Security Researcher Compromises Cisco VoIP Phones With Vulnerability
        Grad student demonstrates how phones can be turned into listening devices by attackers
        "’The attack I demonstrated is caused by the multiple vulnerabilities within the syscall interface of the CNU [Cisco Native Unix] kernel,. Cui tells Dark Reading. ‘It is caused by the lack of input validation at the syscall interface, which allows arbitrary modification of kernel memory from userland, as well as arbitrary code execution within the kernel. This, in turn, allows the attacker to become root, gain control over the DSP [Digital Signal Processor], buttons, and LEDs on the phone. The attack I demonstrated patches the existing kernel and DSP in order to carry out stealthy mic exfiltration.’
        “As part of the demonstration, Cui inserted and removed a small external circuit board from the phone's Ethernet port — a move he asserted could be accomplished by someone left alone inside a corporate office for a few seconds. He then used his own smartphone to capture every word spoken near the VoIP phone, even though it was still ‘on-hook.’… “

          • vital1 vital1

            Good find, now that adds a whole new dimension to surveillance possibilities in the home.

            • richard richard

              even your phone cam can be hacked, apparently ..

              but basically, for your house, you should ensure your network is firewalled.

              it's very simple, get a router, and put it between your computer(s) and the internet gateway modem.

              in fact, this process is a necessity.. if you are directly connected to the internet via a modem your pc is very vunerable. Any modem, dialup, cable, 3g etc.

              They are a danger when directly connected. Any I mean imediately. I've seen computers get attack attempts within a moment of a direct connection.

              Anyway, back to routers and firewalls.

              Your TV or PC or any in-home device is less likely to be hacked once the network is behind a firewall, for the simple fact that a router isolates devices and only provides connections for what the device asked for, not what the outside world has asked for.

              A firewall can be configured to allow outside called connections, where a more advance user may wish to play some types of online games or whereever they wish to act as a server. In 99.99% of homes, this is unlikely to be required.

              So get a router. Which you would have to do to connect a TV and a PC. A TV is very unlikely to ever be hacked.. it will take a certain amount of in-house setting up to expose it to outside 'calls'. Which most people will never ever do.

              As for your phone – or iPad, if they have 3/4G connection they are possibly hackable as a direct connection cannot be avoided. Do be aware.

              Black tape cams.

      • crystalwind crystalwind

        I read where one company's new ones also can be used as scanners to pick up someone else's cellular conversations, location, etc. I don't recall where I got that from.

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Maya Calendars Actually Predict That Life Goes On
    Doomsday? No way. Ancient Maya said we’ll be around another 7,000 years or so.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    I say this on RT..thought I'd check it out.

    Armed SWAT Team To Patrol Arkansas Streets

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    For those following the story in CT.

    CT Police Threaten to Arrest Anyone Who Questions Their Version of the Story


      realized Heart, while watching MSM reports, they're going for a '911 bum-rush'. They're using their bullhorn to shape public consensus and quell the political opposition. Should be obvious, such effort is coming from on high.

      Just as 911 was used to destroy citizen rights and pump-up the military-industrial-security-intelligence-police-state, this latest rampage is being used to cement the public's support for draconian gun control; which, upon future incidents, will ultimately lead to an outright ban on any civilian gun ownership. (They already have all the laws they'd ever need to control indiscriminate gun violence.)

      So they'll continue parading the images of these unfortunate children before our eyes, while insinuating that only nut-bags support the right to bear arms and tolerate such murder. Of course, some may be surprised to know that incident of the Oregon mall shooter was prevented from shooting more innocents by a citizen who had a legal concealed carry permit and was drawing-down on the shooter.

      As with the Oklahoma City bombing and World Trade Center bombing, those who lust for absolute control over the lives of the citizenry show once again, there's no limit to their ghoulish agenda…

      Disclaimer: At no point in my past have I used SSRIs or any-other mind-altering pharmaceuticals. But now and then, I do love a good martini and won't say no to a well-rolled joint…

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose


    A vent on mind control..


    couldn't have said it better…

    "The purpose of the Bill of Right . . . "

    • @Aftershock; A big thank-you for that link. I was struggling to verbalize these exact points to others when trying to explain my concerns. I'm sharing this link with as many people as possible 😀

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    The end of the world has been predicted many times:

    Changed Dates :: Failed Predictions