Published: December 11th, 2012 at 3:08 pm ET
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Source: Iwakami Yasumi, Japanese journalist
Translation: Fukushima Diary
Date: Dec. 11, 2012
On December 11, 2012, Japanese journalist Iwakami Yasumi received this email from Mitsuhei Murata, former Japanese ambassador to Switzerland
I received this message on 12/9/2012.
The pump of the SFP in reactor4 had been having the spotty trouble, but it went out of order on 12/8/2012 at the end.
Nuclear workers were collected for emergency to replace the pump but it takes more 2~3 days to fix they say. (Extra workers were brought by helicopter even at night.)
According to a nuclear worker collected for emergency, the concrete to reinforce the SFP is terribly deteriorating to be in the “dangerous state”.
[...] a former executive manager of a major company commented this, which is very insightful.
“My fear has come into the truth. If it was merely the problem of the pump, it wouldn’t be such an issue but if the base to support SFP4 has some damage where we can’t see, the situation is much more serious.” [...]
Ambassador Murata: “I sent this email to all the chief editors of national newspaper companies, NHK and influential people of major mass media but they all ignored it. I was shocked. I called the manager of disaster headquarter of Fukushima prefectural government but he didn’t know that. It seems like they didn’t report it to Fukushima local government. ”
Published: December 11th, 2012 at 3:08 pm ET
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sending...
Wow.
Hold tight.
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"men helicoptered in"…
That could explain many of the flashing red lights and what appeared to be aerial searchlights and 'black clouds' that were around U3 and U4 and the cranes, that Nucks caught on his clips, and that many postors feared was the SFPs burning already…http://youtu.be/-wPGsob-XCQ
AHHH, I feel SOOOOO much better….!!!!
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Helicoptered in? I'd bet that NPP workers from all over Japan have been to work at Fukushima over the last 19 months. And when they get back to their hometown plant they see it with different eyes.
The only reason Fukushima has not totally blown up is because of the workers who have sacrificed to keep the pumps working and we all owe them a debt. It is not the worker's fault we all are living this freaky situation. It is a white collar crime of the worst magnitude. The blue collars have, so far, saved us. I pray they have great success in the future.
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The only reasons FUKu has not blown uo is because the potential is not there. It is being handeled correctly, and poses on a Level 2 scenario.
Markww is correct. Nothing to freak out about.
This is contained radiologically, but a pain as a fire hazard.
Other wise, not much to get upset about.
I haven't been wrong before, so why would I be now>
This is astill a pre-planned event, and a distraction.
Focus people. Stop being the the lemming that chases phantoms…much larger forces at work here.
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Not good at all…. How many days?
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Gundersen gave a rather precise estimation on audio some weeks ago, how long SFP #4 could remain without cooling in its current state before reaching boiling temperature. I can't find it at the moment, though i'm browsing through the audios, so i don't want to state any fixed numbers only from memory, but i remember, that he gave TEPCO definitely _more_ than 3 days to fix a mere cooling problem in case, the cooling is fully lost (assumed, there are no further damage or leaks).
Maybe someone else finds or remembers Gundersens quote? I am pretty sure, it was not long after the last power outage and officially reported temperature increase at SFP #4.
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it was a matter of hours, something like 40 or up to 82.
I don't remember exacly, but I would say it was 62
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No, it was definitely more, just as i remembered. I just found this on my "searching rampage":
http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/06/reactor4-back-up-coolant-system-failed-backup-power-is-lost-47-hours-left/
I remember that Gundersens comment was most surely in the wake of that event, and his numbers were somewhat the same. So one can estimate: The MINIMUM is 5 days – propably more (less daughter isotope fission heat since June/July 2012 and low winter air temperatures) – from ~30°C to 100°C if _no cooling at all_ within that time is possible.
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* Not "fission heat" but "decay heat", of course.
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That's exactly what I've been thinking about. I don't have time to go back and check right now … I seem to recall something like 3-5 days or something close. It does make me wonder about that calendar too.
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I remember listening to that, and 3 days sounds about right. But that's just from memory, and my memory isn't what it used to be.
It sounds like 2 problems.
1. The pump's broke, and they can probably fix this in time (about 2-3 days).
2. The concrete supporting the SFP is in bad shape (worse than we already thought?), making it more prone to failing in an earthquake. But it may be ok until the next big one. Or maybe not.
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I read the rest on fukushimadiary, and i think the pump's fixed
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"In the afternoon of 12/11/2012, I called both of them to confirm the coolant system was back on."
Calls to both were made, unfortunately more isn't clear.
I recommend nuckelchen's video from 12/3, too.
http://m.youtube.com/user/nuckelchenblogde?&desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2Fnuckelchenblogde
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http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2012/08/can-fukushimas-spent-fuel-pools-catch-fire
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120701a4.html
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Bullseye! That's exactly the audio i was referring to.
Thanks, kez!
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yes, thank you kez!
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+1 (and thank you Arnie)
To recap, Arnie says if both the primary and backup pumps fail:
1. the fuel pool heated up 18 degrees every day
2. after a week, the pool would begin to boil
3. after another week, the top of nuclear fuel would be exposed
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You are welcome! Glad I could help; hands were shaking as I googled though … whew!
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If/when the spent fuel pool collapses, people will be exterminated. What a foolish gamble using nuclear reactors. And the gamblers stakes is (your life).
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nuckelchen warned us last week:
http://m.youtube.com/user/nuckelchenblogde?&desktop_uri=%2Fuser%2Fnuckelchenblogde
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Does anybody know of a good, simple page with instructions for preparing for this? Sort of a fallout prep for dummies kind of idea? Something suitable for those who have been paying no attention and now it's time to pull the "Oh fuck" handle? I don't know that the people I would like to have pay attention actually will, but if it's simple and understandable, they might take a few minutes away from Xmas insanity to save their lives. Any suggestions for something one could share on facebook for example? Thanks.
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Here's very simple instructions of what to do when SFP4 collapses – bend over real hard and put your head right between your legs all the way to the other side, pucker up and kiss your ass goodbye.
There is nothing else for it.
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well said.
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If that comes down, ill be picking up a case of beer and lighting up a big fat joint, hey relax its all good!
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Hi vivvi , i feel stupid , but it seems this is all i have bookmarked regarding nuclear selfdefence .
And i don't even know if its a scam or not.
http://store.seychelle.com/Products-Radiological.html
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Let's assume for a moment, this filter (in your link) is doing what is promised there! How long will you survive by drinking your filtered water, while not eating anything? Our food grows by taking up the same contaminated water unfiltered from the environment and has a tendency to bio-accumulate all kinds of radioactive isotopes coming from a (not yet real) SFP collapse.
How long can you survive by drinking your filtered water, while not eating AND not breathing?
There's more: When anyone wants to believe such a filter might help them, they need to believe that after such an event live goes on as usual: People stand up in the morning, go to their offices, electric power stations, shops… so that there will be electricity to pump the water into your tap, there will be a shop open, where you can buy replacements for your filter… If that is the case, then everything is in top shape, all the worries a lot of us share here where false, and you don't need that filter at all.
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I forgot to mention, I don't think you need to feel stupid, DID. Maybe you didn't pay much attention to the idea of nuclear self-defence because you instinctively knew it is all a hoax like the infamous paper over your head or the duck and cover under your desk.
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You might find some useful information here.
http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/
http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/factsheets.asp
http://emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/emergencyfaq.asp
The problem is that many of these kinds of what-to-do pages mainly offer advice for people in the immediate vicinity of the disaster (or attack).
But for those who are farther removed from it, the main problems will be, in the shorter term, breathing the gases and "hot particles" in the air, and, in the longer term, the contamination of our food supply with long-lived isotopes. Regardless where in the US one lives, a significant portion of our food comes from the west coast; not sure if the same is true for Canada. So in the longer term the challenge will be figuring out what food sources/types might be less contaminated. With regard to food, I've found some good information in the comments section of this page http://www.enviroreporter.com/2011/07/eat-me/
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Hey ViVi…Get yourself and all your friends and all their friends and all their friends aboard a Time Machine and transport back to about 1950, get active protesting the nuclear insanity … and perhaps you can stop it as I and my friends tried…but there weren't enough of us back then and it appears to be too late now. Better luck next time. Or should I say better and earlier wisdom next time.
See you on some other evolving planet in some other galaxy some mill-bill- or trilleniums hence. My personal survival is of little consequence.
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@vivvi, my suggestion: You do nothing special for self-protection after such an event. If you are among the first to "leave", you are lucky. Believe me, you don't want to see how it all ends.
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It does not look good. If I remember well, this region gets strong earthquakes regularly. Anyone has a concrete number for how many earthquakes of 5 and above and 6.5 and above this region gets every year?
Given the actual speed of work, chances that the pool looses its capacity to hold water after a few shakes seems to be above 50% within 2 years. This is not a smart gamble.
I deleted the rest of my comment for our sanity.
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I've been watching this
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/
There's been a lot of earthquakes near that 7 over the past few days. But I don't know if that's normal, because I just started watching it after the 7.
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in Japan, in a rectangle including Kanto and the fault line between the plates in the Pacific where the 9.1 occured, there has been, very roughly, about 2 earthquakes per months of 5+, every year. With years with 3 eartquake per month and years with 1 or 2.
However I do not count 2011 and 2012 because these 2 years have seen an exceptionally high numbe of earthquake, with 2012 still very high but far less than 2011.
Eathquakes thought seemed to happened in group for a few years and many large earthquakes would happened in these years.
I would expect from the quick look I had at the data set that there will be 2 or more earthquake of 5+ per months in 2013 in that region.
http://neic.usgs.gov/cgi-bin/epic/epic.cgi?SEARCHMETHOD=2&FILEFORMAT=4&SEARCHRANGE=HH&SLAT2=41&SLAT1=34&SLON1=139&SLON2=145&SYEAR=&SMONTH=&SDAY=&EYEAR=&EMONTH=&EDAY=&LMAG=5&UMAG=10&NDEP1=&NDEP2=&IO1=&IO2=&CLAT=0.0&CLON=0.0&CRAD=0.0&SUBMIT=Submit+Search
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It looks like 11 5+ earthquakes in the past 7 days near where that 7 hit. And a lot of 4+ that were almost 5's.
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The "Oh-F***" handle is called the first flight to Argentina for a very long vacation.
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I moved to Chile
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Excellent choice!
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I wish this were not true but you can't run or hide from fallout. Videos from South America, Brazil show the fallout has also found it's way there. I also thought about heading to South America or Australia but if and when Reactor four goes it really doesn't matter where you are unless you plan on living underground for a very long time. JMHO
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Looking at this 1958 graph of Strontium 90 deposition, I like our chances outside of the Northern Hemisphere a lot better. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11/09/catastrophic-effects-of-radiation-contamination/fig-4b-bombtstdeposition/
The data on the current levels must be incredibly detailed. Anonymous or anyone else, can you please get us the current data?
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Indeed, Anonymous may very well be able to get current data.
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@MIH, if anonymouse wanted to do something helpful they should hack into the network feeds and broadcoast information to the public directly, IMOHO
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Agree. So many people are ignorant about all of this. People should know. (shrug).
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'People should know'… yes .. and people should care.
But I've mentioned this issue to some people and they simply don't give a toss. They'll scoff you off and drink down another beer.
The vast majority of people simply don't care.
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I agree people do not want to know true knowledge hurts too much easier to "don't worry be happy"
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I know Richard. If and when I bring up the topic to anyone, people just seem to mysteriously close their eyes and ears, some will even walk away….. they don't want to hear…. it's so odd and frustrating and strange. It seems a little like civil war days when no one would admit to mixed-race children even when they were everywhere surrounding them. (sorry. I'm taking History course and so .. it just seemed weirdly similar how people totally close their awareness to facts).
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JHewes76, you can get the (Reuters) feeds directly – no need to hack anything. The problem is that the raw feeds drown a reader in data.
http://www.reuters.com/tools/rss
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Nice link!
Still using that Muckety link as well-Thanks.
I'm still working my way down the thread, but, has ANYBODY here read the FOIA documents concerning spent fuel #4?
8 days after 3-11 the USA claims a 100% release of sfp#4 into the atmosphere.
EIGHT DAYS…………….
msmilkytheclown has some links if you don't wanna "dirty" yourself by going to the NRC site itself.
Peace
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I thinkthe NRC first thought that about Unit 4, but then found out otherwise
(The FOIA documents can be found & categorized at http://www.enformable.com (thank you lucas)
Here are the FOIA docs on Unit 4:
http://enformable.com/fukushima-radiation-data/foia-documents-related-to-fukushima-daiichi-reactor-4/
Here's the conversation on Unit 4:
>> CHUCK CASTO: For me, I’m evermore convinced that there’s nothing there. There’s major damage to that building. And I just have to stake my career on it."
http://enformable.com/2012/03/nrc-transcripts-chuck-casto-re-fukushima-unit-4-for-me-im-evermore-convinced-that-theres-nothing-there-theres-major-damage-to-that-building-and-i-just-have-to-stake-my-career-on-it/
But here they take it back:
>> NRC CHAIRMAN JACZKO: "Yes. So, again, just to repeat, we believe pool No. 4 is dry…"
CHUCK CASTO: Yes, and they can’t maintain inventory at all.
MALE PARTICIPANT: Chuck, we got a briefing before from Tony and John, and they indicated that there was structural integrity to the core pool.
http://enformable.com/2012/03/nrc-transcript-tepco-relayed-information-unit-4-sfp-dry-walls-collapsed-and-incapable-of-holding-inventory-unit-3-everything-else-gone/
And then you can read the rest of the FOIA docs about Unit 4 spf fires, etc.
http://enformable.com/fukushima-radiation-data/foia-documents-related-to-fukushima-daiichi-reactor-4/
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Then there's this:
"There’s evidence of a very significant hydrogen explosion. There’s evidence of fuel or some very highly radioactive material outside of the building after that explosion."
http://enformable.com/2012/03/nrc-transcripts-evidence-of-fuel-or-very-highly-radioactive-material-outside-of-reactor-4-after-explosion/
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Hi Mack,
Enformable is awesome stuff!
Here's a link to three documents confirming the non-functionality of sfp#4, over a number of days of observation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6QDFaoZgRk&feature=plcp
@34m19seconds in…..sfp#4 empty, japanese lying about pool.
@42:24 Jack Grobe concurrs w/ previous assessment; afp#4 is empty.
@42:39 One of the temperature sensors in sfp#4 is mounted high enough to be revealed if there is an event of water loss in the pool. The sensor just registers the air temperature giving FALSE indications of cooling taking place (NOT). They go on to say this is the exact misinterpretation that arnies boys did @ TMI.
With all respect to you Mack, I won't ever offer the NRC an opportunity to backtrack on a corroborated observation they made BEFORE Jackzo went into damgage control mode.
Just my silly opinion, anyway.
With thousands of FOIA pages to sift through, and 4.2 billion years worth of u-238 to degrade, I wish we could all dive into these documents now (I'm feebly trying.lol) and MAYBE hold ANYONE (deadly silence) accountable?
Heck, who am I kidding?
Peace
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@aigeezer.. I meant television/cable feeds. The only way to get important information to the sheeple is to interupt their boob tube viewing.
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Sorry, JHewes76, I missed the point. I have heard that TV ratings are plummeting, so perhaps that's good news.
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No Prob
… I bet part of the problem with ratings drop is the crap they keep coming up with, LOL
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True but every place on earth has draw backs for example Chile has the highest solar radiation in the world and then there are volcanoes, earthquakes, polar shift, arctic ice melt, etc. I personally don't think it is advantageous to run to another country for the sole purpose of avoiding radiation from Fukushima because if the entire facility goes I don't think anywhere on this planet will be safe plus there are so many anomalies occurring on a daily basis it's almost like trying to dodge raindrops. JMHO
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….but if SPF4 falls, it will be impossible to fight. No living thing will be able to approach. It will be impossible to get anywhere near Daiichi – so add to the blaze the combined fuel pools plus everything else on-site that requires constant attention. The blaze just gets bigger! Even Chile is just a fantasy, and Australia? Fallout was detected in Darwin 8 days after Fuku blew…..
Sorry for being so negative but this ground was covered some time ago right here on ENE and It has stuck in my mind….
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Thanks for posting that. I was trying to figure out if moving farther south would help. And that graph seems to indicate it wouldn't, unless you go really far south. But then you have the ozone hole to worry about, among other things.
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That graph might also include fallout from southern hemisphere testing, so it might not indicate what I thought it did. So going farther south might still be a good idea. Although it rains more, so that could mean more fallout.
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I have family near Valparaiso – see you there….
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The Mayan calendar ends December 21, 2012.
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Oh, really, I didn't know
Bring on 2013, put this trash behind us.
Less than 20 sleeps to go, yea hah.
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When you say "less than 20 sleeps to go" I'm going to be optimistic and assume you're not talking about SFP #4.
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Then the energy starts to go back the other way. The negative influences loosen their grip gradually after 12/21. The black hats have to move fast because, as I understand it, as we move farther away from the turn-around point, they will be less able to continue to enforce their agendas, and some of what they've done will begin to unravel.
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Not to worry about the world ending in 2012 … at least according to the Mayans Corium!
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/science/story/2012-05-08/maya-apocalypse-calendar-2012/54879760/1
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Obviously, the Mayans knew nothing about nuclear reactors.
Global Extinction Event: 2.8 Billion People At Risk– Fukushima’s 600,000 Spent Fuel Rods Housed In Unsafe Radiation Retention Pools–Global Experts Preparing To Relocate Families To Southern Hemisphere
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/04/2076578-2076578.html
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Even worse would be a large earthquake at Rokkasho nuclear reprocessing plant.
Rokkasho Plant Too Dangerous, Costly: Expert
November 27, 2008
Sounding the alarm: Mycle Schneider, a French nuclear policy consultant, talks about Japanese atomic energy issues in Tokyo on Nov. 19. – Eriko Arita
“Japan's plan to reprocess and recycle spent nuclear fuel in a reprocessing plant in the village of Rokkasho, Aomori Prefecture, will be a huge waste of electricity users' money and an environmental threat, according to a French atomic power expert.
“Japan Nuclear Fuel Ltd., which runs the plant, had been planning to finish the trial run of its Rokkasho plant for commercial operation by the end of the year. But due to a glitch found in the plant, the schedule has been delayed until next spring at the earliest, since JNFL plans to conduct a trial run until February.
"’Plutonium separation from nuclear waste complicates the nuclear-waste management problem greatly,’ Mycle Schneider, an independent consultant on energy and nuclear policy, said in a recent interview with The Japan Times.
“Data from French authorities showed that power generation using reprocessed spent nuclear fuel costs 83 percent more to dispose of its radioactive waste than disposing of spent fuel from conventional reactors, Schneider said.
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[cont.]
“As a former executive director of WISE-Paris, a nongovernmental research organization on energy policy, Schneider has served as an adviser to the French Environment Minister's Office. He was visiting Japan this month to give lectures at Ritsumeikan University in Kyoto and to some environmental groups.
“Based on Japan's nuclear policy, JNFL plans to turn the plutonium and uranium gained through reprocessing into mixed oxide uranium-plutonium fuel for use in conventional nuclear reactors and in fast-breeder reactors.
“Although France used to be the leader in fast-breeder technology, it turned away from such reactors in recent years.
“Electricite de France, a major French power utility, closed the Superphenix fast-breeder reactor in 1997. The Phenix fast-breeder reactor will also be shut down sometime next year, Schneider said.
"’EDF had a lot of technical problems with the reactor. It's too complicated to explain them, but they were very much safety-related,’ Schneider said. ‘Phenix didn't have major accidents, but EDF was afraid that significant accidents might happen because they had some signs of accidents that they could not identify.’
“In Japan, the Monju plutonium fast-breeder reactor in Tsuruga, Fukui Prefecture, was shut down after a sodium leak and fire in 1995. It remains halted.
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[cont.]
“Compared with conventional light-water reactors, the structure of fast-breeder reactors is much more complicated and their facilities have to be operated in perfect harmony, which is almost impossible using current technology, Schneider said.
“The fast-breeder reactors in France had been planning to use plutonium separated from nuclear waste. But because the plan failed, France has 55 tons of weapons-grade plutonium stock, Schneider said….”
http://large.stanford.edu/publications/coal/references/arita/
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Yes Anne they did not know about nuclear power, but they new something was going to happen.
Thank You Anne
N
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Terrible news indeed. Problem is, that even if that SFP4 were collapsed, Tepco and media won't tell us nothing
SFP4 is a huge bomb and if/when it collapses, a whole world is part of that event. It will multiply this accident maybe 9-10 times, and radiation levels, huh, bad situtation…
All Nukeplants should be retired and shut down now
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Believe me, you will notice if it collapses, even without Tepcoclowns and the press.
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If you go by the USGS the number of world wide earthquakes greater than 7.0 has not increased. The number of weaker earthquakes has increased because the sensitivity of equipment and a higher number of detectors. The expected number is aprox 17 major quakes between 7 and 7.9 and at least one greater than 8.
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http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/eqstats.php
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If SFP #4 fails, how long would we have?
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Golden question.
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I think it varies for every individual as there are elderly people living in Chernobyl, eating the contaminated food, etc. and they seem to be fine, not that I would recommend it. Personally, I just try to find beauty in the little things like birds, the sky, flowers, etc. I know it sounds corny but this planet is so beautiful and never ceases to amaze me with it's resilience, almost like a child we have been so lucky thus far but I can't seem to tear myself away from viewing this ongoing disaster as I yearn for a miracle which our planet offers daily and which man so foolishly destroys. JMHO
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http://www.break.com/usercontent/2010/3/7/children-of-chernobyl-warning-graphic-images-1770395
Oh, moon…they aren't fine.
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I catch your drift, moonshellblue….
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I do Not Think we will Get The Fire Fallout maybe the local area.
I sent in firefighting plan in case of the fuel pool falling and it starting to burn.The Fire CAN BE TOTALLY EXTINGUISHED the radiation would Be localized and there again I sent in Plans to take care of that too. I sent all the Info to Arnie Gundersen.
Hopefully most can be solved and taken care of.
NOW as to the Japanese I hope they got my plans too firefighting Storage pool fires and encasement of radioactive materials on the ground.
Markww
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@markww, me too! God I hope they got the plan.
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And i also hope they forgot to filter it out solely because it is from a non-japanese people. Too hell with good intentions , but honor , face value , that are the real important things.
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None of them have any honor. That's all a sham. And among such shameless men, saving "face" is nothing more than saving their a–es and dodging liability.
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Personally, I'm sure, you both did the best you can do and i'm also sure, you're plans reached the right people. (And by that, i mean the right "right people") Let's hope for the best in case that immediate action is required as you describe and consider it in your plans.
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Yes , thx markww !
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Gee I did not know there was any way to put out a spent fuel fire. Hmm
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Hmmm here, too
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Hi MSB & B&B,
I do believe your "intellectual" cream has risen to the top.
An exothermic fire that produces its own oxygen is pretty unstoppable.
FOIA documents did state fire and explosions were recorded at sfp#4 just 8 days after 3-11.
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Excellent Markww. I commend all your work!
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if the SFP on unit 4 starts getting really hot, say 90 C, they can always go open loop.
Put a 2" firehose in and crack it open and start adding 100 KG/min of water.
Yes the filtering and cooling system is useful but lets be honest, the damn thing has spewed
10EE20 Bq of radiation, whats a few trillion more?
especially compared ot the risk of a pool fire.
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Yes, They keep big water cannons ready to go. But if the repaired concrete has failed underneath the pool… the extra weight of flooding the fuel assemblies might be the final straw that breaks the camel's back
We saw how bad the complex shook during the latest earthquake…it may have enough to compromise the Unit 4 building. Or maybe not, but it is weaker for sure.
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I also sent a copy to professor Chris Busby too in all of his emails some bounced some over loaded but i did get his address as best as i could so that is a IFFY if he got it. I do not know anyone that lives close to him.
Markww
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[Column] 4 reasons why we must be worried about reactor4 “other than earthquake”
Posted by Mochizuki on December 11th, 2012 · 1 Comment
…However, we are only supposed to be worried about an “earthquake” to seriously damage the SFP of reactor4. Is this true ? No, it is not enough. We are missing 4 important facts…
http://fukushima-diary.com/
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You think they would tell us stay in doors because
sfp4 failed,I think not, with the busy christmas
shopping? we will find out after/or rad-net numbers
will tell us ?if they don't shut down the internet!
happy holiday to all but TEPCO!!!!!
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jedi, we must listen to ourselves about what to do. We here at Enenews are aware of the situation more than most people. If they shut down the I.N.? oh well. we must keep living! Happy days peace
N
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"if they don't shut down the internet!" This is what I've been thinking will happen.
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if the 'net gets shutdown, go and spend your money on fast cars, fine women and good 'reality enhancers', the rest, squander.
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Keep smilin'
They have "Fire Hose" backup
The fate of the world rests upon a fire hose. What a sad joke these nuke lies are.
Just think if SPF4 interrupted the Christmas shopping season, guaranteed coverup. Better to kill the sheep than poison the economy, what a joke.
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Don't forget the duct-tape! lol.
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If SFP 4 (or 3) burns, it may kill people in the immediate vicinity quickly, but those of us farther away (such as in the US and Canada–especially the west coast) will simply breath in (and ingest) more hot particles that will do their slow (though ultimately no less lethal) damage over many years. When the health consequences emerge, enough time will have passed that it will not be easy to prove the cause. Internal hot particle emitters don't kill immediately; that is the only reason the nuclear powers-that-be have been able to get away with the assaults on health and the environment they have already perpetrated since the 1940s.
Thus, when they tell us (if they say anything) that the fire poses no "immediate" threat to the health of mainland Americans/Canadians, you know how "honest" that statement is.
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hrm , happy holliday to all beneath a certain level of the foodchain
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True that! Who actually still does last minute Wal-Mart shopping these days when we have the internet to get better pricing? I definitely don't like to be out driving on roads with so much negative energy… it's asking for an accident.
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This was posted on another thread.
It will give you an idea of how much time it will take for radiation to reach the U.S. and beyond, according to what happened on March 11th:
The CTBTO's monitors detected Fukushima's radiation:
>> March 12 @ Takasaki Japan
>> March 14 @ Russia
>> March 16 @ west coast of the United States
>> 9 days after the accident, it had "crossed Northern America"
>> 12 days after the accident, it was found in Iceland
>> By Day 15, found "all across the northern hemisphere"
>> April 13 @ the southern hemisphere, including Australia, Fiji, Malaysia, Papua New Guinea
http://www.ctbto.org/?id=3234
http://enenews.com/both-webcams-capture-strong-quake-rattling-fukushima-daiichi-videos/comment-page-1#comment-311974
So, according to this, it took a month for the radiation to reach the southern hemisphere.
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Wish I had a link, but from what I recall xenon133, among others, were detected at the CSIRO monitor in Darwin NT 8 days after #3 blew up…..
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Middle of April 2011 Xenon 133 was reported in Darwin for the first time in history:
http://enenews.com/cesium-137-reached-southern-hemisphere-fukushima-first-time-xenon-133-detected-below-equator-australia/comment-page-1
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Right. Thanks. Could have sworn it was 8 days…..
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moonshellblue Fighting Spent Fuel Pool Fire
Prof Busby Hello I am Mark Widerstrom in Houston, Texas a retired Fire Captain and also worked at NASA as a fire protection Specialists.
I wrote a report fissionable radiation fire and containment. CLASS D FIREFIGHTING.Fire Fighting agent comprises a detergent mixture, and sodium chloride although vitamin B-6 and bicarbonate soda may be present. The detergent mixture comprises an alkylbenzolyate sulfonate, non-ionic detergent and lauric superamide, linear alkylbenzene sulfonate, isoctylphenyl polyethoxyethanol, about polyoxyethylene sorbitan monooleate, lauric diethanolamide, about monoethanolamide superamides, and water.Burning titanium, uranium, magnesium, zerconium or any other type of combustible metal fire, can be extinguished by applying the liquid formulation directly to the fire using conventional fire fighting equipment. Next is radiation covering ground. Next message.
Markww
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Covering Radioactive materials.
HERE IS HOW HOW TO FIGHT A REACTOR FIRE, OR EXPLOSION AND COVER RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS. When you mix the elements together with the concrete mixture THAT JAPAN WANTS TO USE AS A LAST RESRT WHICH CAN NOW PROTECT THE WORLD FROM HARM.
The heat from the nuclear materials bonds all the things together like a glass ball. ALSO SMOTHERS ANY TYPE OF FIRE
Lead powder
Sand
Graphite
Shuttle tile crushed is basically a strong carbon
Boron
Crushed glass particles
Concrete mixture AND Medical clean Charcoal
Markww
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I have some questions about fuel fires.
If metal nuclear fuel burns, does it produce a lot of smoke and flames like a wood fire, or would the metal simply glow orange and smolder? (I often wonder when viewing suspicious events on the webcams whether there would even be any visible smoke/flames is a SFP fire were occurring.)
Also, why does the metal fuel burn instead of just melting down into liquid, as it does inside the reactor when not cooled?
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yay mark. you tell 'em!
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Good constructive ideas from a real fireman. Thanks Mark. +311
I have always said they need a MASSIVE armada of cargo ships carrying borax from Death Valley to help extinquish Daiichi. Maybe 5,000 ships. How much could it possibly cost? $150 billion for the transport and for the machinery to dump it on the island.
They won't consider it even if it might work. Because the spectacle of such an attempt would frighten people and kill the nucleocrat's beloved monster industry.
So the question is… Has Tepco stockpiled ANY emergency firefighting chemicals since Gundersen warned them months ago? Don't spend too long guessing the answer.
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Why does everyone assume the collapse of Unit 4 will be an extinction level event? Don't get me wrong, when that thing finally topples it's going to be disastrous for Japan, but the rest of the world I'm not too worried about. The U.S. will inevitably see increases in fallout but I doubt it will be anything like after 3/11. Don't y'all remember that three reactor core meltdowns occurred and the entire contents of the Unit 3 pool completely evaporated into the atmosphere (I know that's not official but we've all seen the pictures… that pool ceases to exist)? We're gonna be fine, implying that the world will end when this thing collapses is irrational. However, it will most likely finish off Japan, to which we should be worried about the economic implications.
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@mda2997: guess dumping tons of aerosolized plutonium oxide fuel into the atmosphere is nothing to worry about. The fact that no human will be able to approach the area to quench the resulting nuclear fire storm is not an issue. We'll not worry about what's edible, either. How does a Cicada with a leg growing from its head equate to the end of our world? Of course, multiply these mutations by a billion or more and you might be looking at the gradual collapse of an already stressed biosphere. And we're not even exploring the immediate effects on human health. It might take decades – or more – to become evident that we're actually looking at an extinction level event…
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Hi mda, the spent fuel pool contains the fuel from decades. It is more toxic / radioactice than fresh fuel. If it gets out of control, it can not be approached for centuries to come. If SFP 4 goes, SFPs 1,2,3 and Dainii will go with them after a while, as noone will be left around.
Fuku is the 2nd biggest nuclear complex in the world. It contains tons of plutonium, the most toxic substance known on this planet. Going airborne, it reaches literally every spot around the world.
Enough to be worried about, I guess…
*peace
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It is spent fuel from more than 40 years. It's is the nuclear experts that say that the whole northern hemisphere will be uninhabitable is spent fuel pool #4 collapses. Not only will we have all the aerosolled plutonium from #4, but we already have had enough plutonium out of #1, 2, and 3 to create 429 lethal doses for every inhabitant on earth. Then there is all the plutonium from all the other accidents, nuclear testing, and nuclear waste around the world. The US has even more spent fuel pools full of decades of spent fuel than Japan. Spent fuel doesn't mean that it is no longer radioactive. On the contrary, it is even more radioactive than fresh fuel, full of man made isotopes than are not found in nature. It just means that it can't be used for nuclear energy any more.
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Senator: Fukushima Fuel Pool Is a National Security Issue for AMERICA
Posted on May 6, 2012 by WashingtonsBlog
Fukushima Fuel Pools Are an American National Security Issue
“There’s more cesium in that [Unit 4] fuel pool than in all 800 nuclear bombs exploded above ground…”
“’There are 31 G.E. Mark I and Mark II boiling water reactors (BRWs) in the U.S., the type used at Fukushima. All of these reactors, which comprise just under a third of all nuclear reactors in the U.S., store their spent fuel in elevated pools located outside the primary, or reinforced, containment that protects the reactor core. Thus, the outside structure, the building ostensibly protecting the storage pools, is much weaker, in most cases about as sturdy, experts describe in interviews with AlterNet, as a structure one would find housing a car dealership or a Wal-Mart.’
“Remember that American nuclear power plants are storing much more nuclear fuel rods in highly-vulnerable pools than even Fukushima….”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/05/senator-fukushima-fuel-pool-is-a-national-security-issue-for-america.html
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If it is easier for you to disbelieve the danger, then go for it. But if you reassure everyone else, you are doing them a great disservice. The only people who are saying that there is no worry, are receiving pay checks from the nuclear industry.
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mda2997:
The complexity of this situation truly boggles the mind (my mind, anyway). It is easy to misunderstand all of the relationships among the events, but to my way of thinking, if Japan is done for, so is the rest of the world.
If Japan is hit with the expected radiation of SP4 burning, whose going to be around at the dozens of other reactors in Japan to make sure they don't melt down? I believe that if SP4 goes, an unstoppable chain reaction among the other nuclear plants will be put in motion.
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I just have to ask… Is there any chance that this might be some type of bad joke or deliberate false information to get people upset and worried? Some perverse irrational hoax to make us worry? (I know, I sorta doubt it, but I did want to find out what other people on this site – who do tend to be more educated and more informed — might feel, think or believe). Am I just grasping at straws hoping that this might be misinformation?
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Hi PurpleRain,
Hoax I doubt although has anyone checked the Tepco pressers on their website? This should be a reportable event. I will later but still working now.
I do wish our dear admin had included the fact that cooling had been restored in his synopsis … can still taste the aspirin I chewed up as heart was racing!
Take care.
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Hi again PurpleRain. Re this being a possible hoax.
I will not advocate Tepco's transparency … but they have reported pump failures, etc in their company website press releases before and as I said this *should* be a reportable event.
Here's the link; I find nothing related to this story between 12/7 and 12/11. Please do and feel free to correct me.
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/index-e.html
There are no recent news hits for the ex Ambassador other than this same story.
The reporter who alleges to have received the email has an active twitter account:
https://mobile.twitter.com/iwakamiyasumi
And twilog account:
http://twilog.org/iwakamiyasumi
(More)
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Of course all of this is in Japanese. But there are links that show pics and some ustreams that might be enlightening.
I poked through a little but …
Anyway, your comment about this maybe being a hoax kinda does have me saying hmmm.
I thought I might check out a couple of the fuku web cam links referenced here but … I still think I might still be saying hmmm.
Regards and take care.
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Every printed word in Japanese can be translated by Google translate with a simple copy and paste:
http://translate.google.com/
Just pick Japanese on the left side and English on the right side.
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Hi Kez, thanks for all the info. I was partially asking in vain-hope that it might be, and partially because just a couple of weeks ago there had been some old news that was mistaken for current bad news and did raise people's concern. … I just thought it would not hurt to double-check and validate all of this. Thant's all. My rose-colored glasses keep loosing the rose — and well, this is all so terrible, that … you know. Thank you for adding the info.
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Honestly, pre-planned reaction perpetrated by the Mossad. No, it is not as bad as it is being played as, except for the Japanese population and others nearvy. This was as a punishment politically and monetarily. One building does not even contain a reactor, but I will leave that for later… as I don't participate on these threads much, and folks seem close-minded as they watch the inevitable processes play out.
For the US, not anymore radiation than from above ground testing. It's not good, as it causes higher rates of cancers, but not any worse. Hell, we just got nuked by our own Govt. just last week. Unreal.
Beam me up Scotty…these people are insane. TEPCO is a tool, as is all Agencies.
Lord, I miss Mr. Trafficant. I share so much of his realism.
Bedtime, nite.
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SickPuter you do not need that many ships maybe one will do in fact they have one that can shoot thousands and thousands of gallons per minute and you only need one. it is the ship that built the islands around the island construction where they were putting in resorts. the ship can throw a MASSIVE stream a few hundred feet or more and can pump all day its a converted oil tanker with a massive deck gun on it,on the front and they could mix all the liquids together and do the job
Markww
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Still need a lot of borax. The two nuclear power plant Daiichi and Daini 5 miles away probably will both need entombment and lots of remediation chemicals, not just sand and crushed rock.
The size of both nuclear plants: over two square miles (860 acres at Daiichi and 370 acres at Daini).
Figure the math on fill materials for two square miles working in hazardous conditions. Also the need for domed structure over the individual units. The project would make the Pyramids look like building a doghouse.
BTW…the article on Wikipedia for Daiichi says the sister plant was undamaged on 311:
"Not to be confused with the Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Plant, which is south and was undamaged in the 2011 tsunami."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_Nuclear_Power_Plant
SP: Hey Rod, you been ghostwriting again? *;-)
I knew about the Saudi artificial islands and their machine would be a great tool for Japan. The three Palms islands cost 12 billion US dollars and need expensive maintenance. In fact all of the artificial sand islands built in the past decade are in a crisis now with extensive erosion threatening the real estate buildings. The economic meltdowns exacerbated this problem.
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mda2997 you need to read more. You are confused.
If there are survivors plan to help them get here. If there aren't begin planning your evacuations/moves.
Anyone with immune disorders, severe asthma, COPD, lupus, cancer, MS, or any other condition that will be greatly exacerbated by a very, very large dose of continuous radioactive gas, rain, snow, and wind will need to start exploring options now.
If you have decided to stay where you are you should start contacting your mmj dispensaries. No one is going to have the money to pay for extended chemical cancer treatments soon. Compassionate hospice care will be your answer.(To the Non-Americans, the American politicians have a very big budgetary decision to make before January that may negatively affect citizen medical coverage access and job availability.)
The Midwest should be your travel goal. Any farther East and you'll be heading into Assumption Parish territories. Very soon they will have their own problems to deal with.
Knowing most people on this board they will have to see people burned to death or dying in agony from cancer before they consider moving their loved ones.
We don't have long to wait now.
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I'm not confused? You didn't even provide any data to back up any of your end of the world crap you just spat out. "Run far away"… that's what you're entire comment says but wrapped up into 3 simple words. Explain to me where all this death will come from? Last time I checked the U.S. was barely affected by Fukushima fallout, we may have suffered some unnecessary deaths but no where near what y'all were implying back after 3/11.
So Kalidances, you are the one that is confused, buying into all this extinction level event non-sense. Even if Unit 4 collapses the world will be fine. Y'all have been saying the world's gonna end for 2 years now yet we all seem to be fine, minus Japan.
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no mda, if sfp4 goes what about reactors 5 & 6 not to mention the other reactors 5 miles down the road and please tell me who will maintain the common spent fuel pool, you? so if that happens and the west coast of the us does get hit with lethal radiation, who is going to maintain those reactors?
let me tell you something, both last year and this year i had to work out in the rain, my immune system went to hell last year and all of this year i went to the doctors 2x for coughing up yellow stuff both times i thought i got rid of 'it' only to find out in august 20 i couldnt quit coughing it was so bad i went to the er my o2 level was at 87 and my bp was 70 something over 40, 2.5 days later i was put on a ventilator and an induced coma for 14 days, 8 days later they knew i had pneumonia(walking pneumonia since spring they said) AND 2 different strains of pseudomonas – nasty stuff that usually only attacks OLD decrepit people and people with aids, i dont have aids, hell i am only 47 not that old. so they removed my upper right lung lobe because the infection was killing me (they told me afterwards that unless they removed part of my lung that i would have only lived about a day at the most) (they also tell me they are seeing all kinds of strange diseases lately, although one never hears about this stuff) 9weeks of iv antibiotics and some healing time and i feel much better now. i had lost about 37 lbs or so and was so weak after just 21 days it was unbelievable. grr out of…
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The data are not supporting a theory where all fuel in reactor 1,2 and 3 vaporised 100%. Do you have such data?
Here is a study:
Fukushima Spent Fuel pool has 85 times more cesium than Chernobyl.
End of discussion. You can do research too you know.
I just googled: fukushima spent fuel pool 4 chernobyl.
Anyone can do that.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/nuclear-expert-fukushima-spent-fuel-has-85-times-more-cesium-released-chernobyl-%E2%80%94-%E2%80%9Cit-woul
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Fukushima Reactor 4; Global Life Extinction Event If It Collapses; via A Green Road
http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/04/fukushima-reactor-4-life-extinction.html
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How Dangerous Is 400-600 Pounds Of Plutonium Nano Particle Dust Liberated By Fukushima? Via A Green Road http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-dangerous-is-400-600-pounds-of.html
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mda2997 writes: "yet we all seem to be fine, minus Japan."
SP: Losing Japan means losing the tenth largest country in the world (population-wise) and the 3rd largest economy. Not a pleasant thought for them or the rest if the world. If it goes really bad, some country is going to be faced with a lot of sick refugees.
Losing 2997 Americans at the World Trade Center was a national tragedy. But 120 million Japanese slowly (or quickly) dying is a 21st century Holocaust. Dying slowly now, but if the nuclear units worsen there will be decisions made that will change the planet as we know it.
I wear the scornful badge of fear monger with no shame because I feel this disaster is so huge, so misunderstood, that it needs global recognition to save not only the Japanese, but the entire human race.
For me as a historian Fukushima is the pennultimate event of an impending collapse of human civilization. The ongoing crisis is a Damocles sword dangling over the health of not just 120 million Japanese, but billions of humans around the globe. This is the biggest threat to mankind in the past 600 years. A nuclear cloud rivaling the effects of the Black Plague is currently being held in check by a few dozen day labor workers in Japan. The lives of your families are being entrusted to a handful of ill-equipped workers backed by a bankrupt company propped up by an inept and corrupt group of Tokyo bureaucrats. It is highly unlikely this madhouse will survive unscathed.
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+++++ Well said Sickputer.
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Excellent, thanks
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brilliant stuff Sickputer…
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Excellent Sickputer, the best lines I've read in a while.
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@Sickputer, after a bit of thinking… If you want to wear the badge of fear monger, you need to earn it first. Your statement gives me actually a bit of hope. If you want to strike fear into me, you need to say something along the lines of: "We survived so far, what could ever go wrong?" Or: "Why all the fuss? It will be only on country wiped off the map."
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10000+
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@mda2997, your questions and doubts are legitimate for someone who didn't get much information on the topic. But your counter-arguments are pure nonsense. It is like someone saying: "He guys, I just stumbled over a cliff edge in complete darkness in unknown territory, I don't know how deep it is under me, BUT I ALREADY FELL TWO METERS AND AM STILL FINE, so what could possibly happen?"
Interesting enough, you share this naive way of thinking with all nuclear shills I came across.
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nice m a x l i…
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It is not hard to envision, that as large numbers of people start suffering from radiation poisoning, the health care system will be unable to cope, the distribution of food and other goods will break down. Then there will be no cooling systems for all the nearly 400 nuclear reactors in the northern hemisphere and no one to take care of these plants…
Meanwhile, the elite are only able to plan holograms in the sky to fool and subjugate the world. Only problem, there will be no one left to subjugate or see these diabolical holograms. The ultimate irony. All plans for massive wealth are chimeras.
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Spent Fuel Pond v's Earth Changes. Reactor 4, 2012.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heS59vPgIi8
Is Fukushima reactor No. 4 on the verge of catastrophic failure that will destroy the world?
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/9522/is-fukushima-reactor-no-4-on-the-verge-of-catastrophic-failure-that-will-destro
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This is one of the ships being used
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/dubai-palm1.htm
http://www.dubaicoast.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ThePalmDeiraJul07CopyrightNakheel2S.jpg
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The answer for those unable to quantify how an ELE could occur need to read about "slow kill" or "soft kill". An ELE doesn't have to be something that occurs over only 1-4 weeks. A few years is not unimagineable. This whole nuke event is a big catalyst to the already huge pot of lethal variables in our worldly equation. No, I'm not a worrysome person, nor do I fear death. A new beginning would be very welcome for many.
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I agree Lickerface.
It's hard for me to imagine how life can go on. In nearly 2 years we have seen catastrophic change in the immediate area of the reactors. The radioactive material is spreading in many different ways,air sea land, microbes, ways we don't even realize. Fast forward five years and the contamination will be unimaginable. The radioactive material is on the move.
Chernobyl's radioactive material moved all over the earth. There were particles from pole to pole, but the amount was less and it was a more finite amount. There is no comparison to the continued amount liberated by fukushima day after day it is covering our planet.
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I think Arnie said in the beginning or other experts that the spent fuel pools are the real danger. Keep extra iodine on hand just in case……..
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Thanks to Iwakami Yasumi, Japanese journalist founder of "Independent Web Journal" who received this email from Ambassador Murata and reported on it, unlike the established media like NHK. The Japanese MSM, just like the US, ignored Ambassador Murata's reports.
Iwakami Yasumi covered this story from the beginning. He was part of the Feb 2012 Press tour of the plant, shortly after which he suffered radiation sickness and has been since diagnosed.
Just one person, but one person who tried, who really tried, who did what he could. Thank you, Iwakami.
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Rachel Maddow had some of the best explanations of spent fuel rods before the Nuke bosses muzzled her:
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2011/03/16/6281333-whats-the-deal-with-spent-nuclear-fuel?lite
I enjoyed watching her show the first week of 311 until the iron fist of the American nucleocrats muzzled her voice and virtually all the main stream media outlets.
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Rachel was all over it with a command for reaction. She was absolutely clamped down upon. Brilliant.
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She did a fantastic show on the topic. She has mentioned it once or twice since…. I think she is very aware, but also has to be very cautious. I never used to watch her show before, but now I hardly ever miss it. I learn a lot from it on many topics.
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Yes I think I saw one of the follow up shows and it was good, like a reminder show that it was still a threat. I am in some ways an all or nothing type of thinker….but I can appreciate the tightrope an outspoken thinker has to walk to keep their voice in times of near panic. Its shocking that incredibly more people than us even tuned into 311, just shocking.
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*didn't* tune in that is!
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Crazy isn't it? Fukushima is exactly the kind of scenario that anti-nuke activists warned about and were mocked for for decades.
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Hence the depth of the denials.
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Good article here on spent fuel fires. Pool at Stricken Reactor 4 Holds Answers to Key Safety questions by Eli Kintisch Science April 2011 vol 332 no 6025.
I don't have the link but you should be able to find online.
The article states that zirconium encased fuel rods can reduce radiation by steaming
"Lab experiments have shown that zirconium can burn either with steam or with oxygen. Both reactions progress rapidly at roughly 800 C; the former, crucially, releases hydrogen.
The hydrogen explosion at reactor 4 points to the steam reaction, which releases less energy and therefore melts the fuel more slowly. But knowing which reaction dominated could help scientists quantify how much radiatioactivity was released from pool #4."
Keep in mind that Tepco didn't release monitoring data from Mar 16, according to Fukushima Diary.
If spent fuel can release radiation as a result of steam reactions, it seems possible that the spent fuel in 4 has been releasing radiation nearly continuously for the last year and a half….
Correct me if I misunderstand the meaning of the article….
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TYPO: NOT "reduce" radiation. I meant 'RELEASE RADIATION'
I'm tired and need to go to bed….
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Without TEPCO, now the Japanese government, coughing up the pertinent information necessary for scientific review no one will be able to confirm what really happened at Fukushima and that really sucks…depriving scientific community of even monitor readouts.
By omission alone with statements saying there was a reported fire at Unit 4 and it put itself out, twice, TEPCO is admitting fires of unknown origins. Congress heard testimony that 4's pool was empty at one time but they weren't sure because TEPCO wouldn't confirm, at least publicly. So, if the pool was empty it was burning and releasing deadly fallout…probably didn't happen to that extent even if workers had to keep the pool full using a bucket brigade but fire hoses shot seawater in as a last ditch attempt to fill the pool and it worked.
Some damage to 4's fuel rods from overheating (it was steaming), probably. Besides debris hits, saltwater usage, extra boron and general shaking during quakes.
Any fuel pool will emit minute amounts of gasses. It's the damaged/broken fuel rods that will leak dangerous amounts of radiation but keeping them cool underwater helps and the way workers and visitors were walking around 4's pool, I didn't see a panic there because of radiation.
TEPCO hasn't said why the pump failed, could be a clue to what's going on.
Need time the most for 4's pool cool down more, couple more years. The blobs look to be cooled by groundwater if all else fails.
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http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6025/24
Link to article.
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http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6025/24
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Science 1 April 2011:
Vol. 332 no. 6025 pp. 24-25
DOI: 10.1126/science.332.6025.24
Pool at Stricken Reactor #4 Holds Answers to Key Safety Questions
“Of all the terrible news from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, reports about the spent fuel storage pool for reactor #4 may be among the most disconcerting for scientists. The pool held the entire complement of fuel rods from the reactor's core, which had been emptied 3 months before the 11 March earthquake and tsunami struck. And yet on 15 March the building exploded, apparently fueled by hydrogen, leaving nuclear engineers to speculate about the source. Adding to the confusion are reports of fires in the pool, a worst-case scenario that had never before occurred in a working nuclear plant.
“Unraveling the mysteries surrounding the #4 pool will require discovering why water levels there fell so quickly, and whether the 230 tons of spent nuclear fuel melted in addition to catching on fire. Researchers also need to quantify how much radioactive material might have been released. The events at the #4 pool could shed light on the dangers posed by spent fuel in pools at more than 350 reactors globally, and what needs to be done to assure the public that they can be operated safely.
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[cont.]
“As Science went to press, extremely high levels of radiation were hampering efforts to restore power and water lines to all six reactors at the complex. And while a possibly damaged core in reactor #3 was leaking highly radioactive water, reactor #4's pool remains among the biggest potential sources of radiation. In video released early this week, what appeared to be steam continued to billow from reactor #4's blown-out frame despite continued efforts to add water.
Hot fuel
“The nuclear fuel at reactor #4 is made up of uranium pellets held in 4-meter-long tubes made of zirconium alloy. The pool holds 1331 bundles of tubes, known as assemblies; 548 were removed from the reactor in January during maintenance.
“Daiichi has seven spent nuclear fuel pools: one for each of its six reactors, and a central one. They serve two main purposes: to cool the fuel, which gives off heat as a result of radioactive decay, and to shield workers and the environment from radiation. In reactors with Fukushima Daiichi's design, pools are not in sealed containment vessels but are open and accessible; operators are keenly aware of the importance of keeping water levels high. (Although the pool at reactor #3 may also have produced hydrogen, the other five pools have required constant replenishment but remained stable.)
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[cont.]
“One mystery about the #4 pool is how its water level fell so quickly. During normal operation, 7 meters of roughly 40°C water sit between the top of the fuel rods and the surface of the 1425-ton pool. The water is constantly circulated and replenished. There's little doubt that temperatures in the pool would have risen steadily after power was lost. But several scientists have independently calculated that it would take much longer than 4 days—perhaps as much as 3 weeks—for the heat of the fresh fuel in the #4 pool to evaporate or boil off the water.
“Could the #4 pool's structure have been damaged in the quake or subsequent explosions or both? Among possible weak points are the large doors on the side of the pool. The doors, which allow fuel to pass underwater from the reactor into the pool, are held shut by rubber gaskets inflated by electric pumps. In 1986, at the Hatch nuclear plant near Baxley, Georgia, the water level in a spent fuel pool dropped by more than a meter after the seals were left uninflated. But engineers say that the channel between the reactor and the pool is filled with water during maintenance periods, meaning that a leak would lengthen the time it took to empty the pool. “It's surprising to me [that] the fuel became uncovered that quickly,” says Lake Barrett, a retired nuclear engineer and former U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) official.
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[cont.]
“Determining the temperature of the pool has been another challenge. (It was reported to be 84°C the day before the explosion; no data have been subsequently released.) Knowing that temperatures were high enough to drive water completely from the pool could help researchers quantify how much radioactivity was released in subsequent steps. The day after the 15 March explosion, NRC Chair Gregory Jaczko said that the pool had run dry at one point, a claim that the Japanese government has disputed.
“At least one fire in the pool—and possibly a second—was reported by power company officials after the explosion. Lab experiments have shown that zirconium can burn either with steam or with oxygen. Both reactions progress rapidly at roughly 800°C; the former, crucially, releases hydrogen. The hydrogen explosion at reactor #4 points to the steam reaction, which releases less energy and therefore melts the fuel more slowly. But knowing which reaction dominated could help scientists quantify how much radioactivity was released from pool #4. A 2006 study by the U.S. National Research Council said that a heat up after a loss-of-water event could melt the spent fuel, allowing the escape of volatile radionuclides, including “a substantial fraction of the cesium,” into the air.
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[cont.]
“Soil samples analyzed by the Japanese science ministry last week found cesium levels roughly equivalent to 8 million becquerels per square meter near the plant. That level, if accurate, would be higher than those found near Chernobyl. (Radioactive iodine has been found in Japanese tap water, but its 8-day half-life means that it couldn't have come from the older spent fuel in pool #4. Reactor #3 may be the source.) Scientists also don't know what fraction of the radioactive cesium released is from reactors or from spent fuel. Scientists hope more detailed isotopic measurements will shed light on the age and, therefore, the source of the radioactive particles….”
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6025/24.full
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Majia and others: Take a look at Tanaka's responses to Atomic Rod at bottom the many comments in an October-December thread. Very enlightening…they didn't know anything about the conditions in spent fuel pond unit 4 for at least 6 weeks after 311. All guess work. Three great comments by Reid Tanaka (first one October 26, 2012 and third one November 6. Tanaka was embedded for a year at Daiichi with the US NRC folks.
http://atomicinsights.com/2012/10/oak-ridge-researchers-prove-fukushima-unit-4-spent-fuel-pool-never-a-danger.html
Second website of note that complements the Tanaka-Adams discourse is this web article about the Unit 4 SFP gates:
http://allthingsnuclear.org/possible-source-of-leaks-at-spent-fuel-pools-at/
SP: I believe ultimately there will be proof Unit 4 SFP went dry or nearly dry in the first hectic days and was on fire. They will also discover the true cause of the mysterious Unit 4 building explosion.
To answer your question…yes Unit 4 spent fuel pond has been leaking radiation constantly for the past 642 days. They do not have normal cooling levels at pond 4 (the water level is mentioned on one website as "small") and when zirconium cladding splits… For eternity the highly irradiated ceramic uranium pellets are spewing and leaking radiation regardless of whether they melted.
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Black rain and snows suggest severe pollution contamination. As more facts emerge and evolve the situation becomes more gruesome and sadder with each month really.
You can listen all day how everything's okay in Japan and then you walk back home in the black rain.
Sound okay to you?
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Ozzy Ozbourne:
The black rain is falling
Contaminating the ground
The human race is dying
The dead are scattered around
What is the price of a bullet?
Another hole in the head
A flag draped over a coffin
Another soldier is dead
How many victims have fallen
How many more have to die
People dying in masses
Angel of death standing by
We've got our marching orders
Defenders of our home and our pride
We've crossed too many borders
Military suicide
War killing sons and daughters
Another failed attack
There is no turning back
Blood running down like water
You'll think you got away
Until the judgment day comes
Politicians confuse me
I watch the body count rise
Why are the children all marching
Into the desert to die?
The human psyche is twisted
The madness rising again
Another empire falling
I watch them dying in vain
We've got our marching orders
Defenders of our home and our pride
We've crossed too many borders
Military suicide
war sends our sons to slaughter
Another failed attack
There is no turning back
Blood running down like water
You'll think you got away
Until the judgment day comes
Are you ready?
Black rain, black rain
Black rain, black rain
War killing sons and daughters
Another failed attack
There is no turning back
Blood running down like water
You'll think you got away
Until the judgment day
You'll think you got away
Until your judgment day
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4.7 Fukushima
http://www.jma.go.jp/en/quake/20121212092404391-120919.html
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What were these people thinking when they designed a highly dangerous power source that couldn't be turned off or even accessed in the case of major accident?
What were the politicos thinking when they approved this insanity? Probably just counting their donations.
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Death wish for their money.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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OK EVERYBODY S T O P READ AND LISTEN STOP THE PANIC AND LISTEN.
You need to read my firefighting AGAIN. IT PUTS out SPF FIRES and the metals and the coatings of the fuel pellets.
The material mixture can PUT OUT zirconium . THERE WILL BE NO MASSIVE RELEASE IF THEY START FIGHTING IT WITH THE MATERIALS I ALREADY WROTE UP. BOTH THINGS WORK.
The materials might pool and gel but the fire and smoke and everything can be put out by REGULAR FIREFIGHTING METHODS USING THE FORMULA
SICKPUTER Listen you don't just dump crushed rock and the stuff you said You did not reason either. The stuff I listed in my two write ups IS WHAT TO DO. I was trained in this kind of crap OK and learned this knowing chemicals and radioactive traits of pellets.
fighting spf fires and then the covering ALREADY WORKS its a protective coating once it hardens from the heat it CAN NOT RELEASE ANY RADIATION and it is so cold you do not need any water its stable and then can be deposited in a regular STEEL CONTAINER its deemed safe then.
THIS IS NOT A ELE EVENT FOLKS everyone started to PANIC SO LETS STOP AND REASON THIS THING OUT.
I SENT in my stuff to ARNIE and BUSBY over a year ago in fact some in 2011 just after 3-11.
Lets wait and watch and see what happens. I did what I could do , now lets see if people will do it.
MARKWW
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Thank you MARKWW for your efforts. Really.
I guess the question is, "Would they actually DO anything to get this under control in a speedy manner?"
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Coming up to two years, what would say the answer is ?
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Mark… Keep fighting for containment progress at Fukushima. As a former Houstonian myself I would join you in any American effort to encapsulate Fukushima, whether it is borax and boron from Death Valley or the big concoction of chemicals in your special recipe.
I love my family and my country and would risk my life going to Japan to help out if my country calls on me. But I do expect our leaders to make a massive committment of resources. They don't feel the need yet to intervene, but I am afraid Fukushima still has the potential to destroy Japan and threaten every country downwind and downstream. If it does spiral out of control they can't say they haven't been warned by many Enenewsers.
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@markww… your right, once again
But I must say that is a mighty big IF in the 3rd paragraph. I hope they are smart enough to listen to you.
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Radiation Protection if from afar. (If near, evacuate, or stock MJ for pain.)
• Stay indoors. Seal drafts. If you must go out, avoid rain & wear a N95 dust mask (also on airplanes) to inhale fewer particulates. Wash hands/face upon entering. Leave hazmat suit, footwear, waterproof ponchos, umbrellas outside. At door, put damp clothes in a plastic bag or washing machine. Launder w/ borax. Shoe-free home even in dry weather! Use a Hepa air filter & vacuum.
• Take supplements, especially calcium, magnesium, zinc, vitamins C, E, D, B’s, manganese, potassium, phosphorous, fruit pectin (white part of grapefruit/orange), turmeric, only uncontaminated miso, sea veggies, algae, spirulina, green tea, cooked mushrooms.
• Research iodine & potassium iodide dosage etc. Stock up.
• Wash, then peel post-plume root veggies & fruit. Onions, garlic, cilantro, rosemary, & oregano are protective. Eschew raw food.
• Unless grown indoors or harvested pre-plume, AVOID foods that are quickly contaminated: meat, dairy, Pacific seafood/sea veggies, shrooms, tea, & foods contaminated w/ surface deposition: leafy veggies, broccoli, cauliflower, berries. Meat/milk concentrate radiation. Go for a vegan, high fiber diet. Drink reverse osmosis filtered water.
• Chelate toxins from your body: soak 15 min. in 2 lbs baking soda dissolved in hot bath.
• Strengthen immunity: consume less sugar, exercise, stay positive, meditate, laugh, socialize, communicate, express creativity,…
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another crap robot….
(UPDATED) #Fukushima I Nuke Plant: Toshiba's 4-Legged Robot Checked Vent Pipe in Reactor 2, No Leak, Damage Observed
(UPDATE) I just had a laugh for the night. In TEPCO's press conference on December 12, TEPCO has just said this robot has crashed. TEPCO was going to check one or two more vent pipes on December 12, but the robot lost its balance and collapsed on the staircase to the torus room and cannot move. TEPCO will investigate the cause of this malfunction tomorrow.
EX-SKF
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Why Nuclear Scientists Have Missed The Danger Of Spent Fuel Pools … ‘Even Loss Of Circulation Of Coolant Will Lead To Overheating Of The Fuel And Extensive Fuel Damage’
“This absence of backup systems for the spent fuel pool is testimony to the lack of effort and lack of forethought that has been devoted to the spent fuel bay. Nevertheless, the radioactive inventory in the spent fuel pool is often much greater than that in the core of the reactor, and a prolonged loss of coolant — or even loss of circulation of coolant — will lead to overheating of the fuel and extensive fuel damage. This will result in significant releases of radioactive fission products into the atmosphere due to the inadequate or even non-existent containment provided for the spent fuel pool.
“Moreover, a loss of coolant in the spent fuel pool — whether by leakage, spillage, or boiling off of the cooling water — will lead to intense gamma radiation that would prevent human access for hundreds of metres in all directions around the spent fuel pool, making it very difficult to take corrective actions.
“Under adverse circumstances there can even be a fuel meltdown in the spent fuel pool, if the temperature climbs to about 2800 degrees C, which would vastly increase the radioactive releases and spread those releases over a much wider area.
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[cont.]
“The overheating of the spent fuel in the pool can be exacerbated by the intense exothermic reaction between the zirconium cladding and the steam produced from the overheated water, and can even result (at around 1000 degrees C) in a very intense zirconium fire which can result in tiny particles of intensely radioactive spent fuel being liberated into the atmosphere.
“Depending on the diameter of these “hot particles” (sometimes referred to as “nuclear fleas”) they can be transported greater or lesser distances by the wind, possibly affecting populations hundreds of kilometers from the spent fuel pool. Once dispersed into the environment, these hot particles will constitute a source of radiation exposure and environmental contamination for centuries to come.
“In addition to the possibility of zirconium fires (which have for a long time been almost completely overlooked by nuclear engineers and regulators) there is another, even more dangerous possibility. An alteration in the geometry of the spent fuel in the pool, by which the separation between the spent fuel rods is slightly but significantly reduced, can lead to re-initiation of the chain reaction in the pool.
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ANNE there will be no atmosphere problems read my firefighting again, it is not going to be like you said You do not understand the principles I have stated in firefighting . My solutions work both of them .
It is not going to be the event your talking about. The thousand plus temp takes awhile and even so the chemicals being put on the FIRE TOTALLY STOP AND PUT OUT THE FIRE it is made for this kind of fire THE TEMPS WON'T HAPPEN if they use the firefighting method.
Markww
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respectfully agree to disagree……….
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[cont.]
“This ‘accidental criticality’ will not only drive the temperature up rapidly, but will also replenish the supply of short-lived heat-producing fission products, accelerating the damage to the fuel, magnifying the heat loading, increasing the probability of a fuel pool meltdown, and vastly increasing the atmospheric releases of radioactivity….
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2012/04/30/why-nuclear-scientists-have-missed-the-danger-of-spent-fuel-pools-even-loss-of-circulation-of-coolant-will-lead-to-overheating-of-the-fuel-and-extensive-fuel-damage/
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Spent fuel is just behind this wall:
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/fukushima-reactor-4-sfp-is-just-behind-this-wall.jpg
from
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2012/04/30/fukushima-find-the-corium-maybe-in-a-few-thousand-years-or-so/
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This plan to remove damaged fuel assemblies was never put into place, presumably because it was impossible.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/bernanke/110413info05.jpg
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Breaking News: Reactor 4 on fire
September 29th, 2011
http://fukushima-diary.com/2011/09/breaking-news-reactor-4-on-fire/
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Is Fukushima reactor No. 4 on the verge of catastrophic failure that will destroy the world?
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/9522/is-fukushima-reactor-no-4-on-the-verge-of-catastrophic-failure-that-will-destro
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Spent Fuel Pond v's Earth Changes. Reactor 4, 2012.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heS59vPgIi8
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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yi_Lr9W6bKo/TwmViBICHJI/AAAAAAAAB6Y/Xy2zcr39daY/s640/R4_topfloor1.jpg
from:
Journalist: Tepco whistleblower says Reactor 4 “very unstable and dangerous” — More people are concerned about situation
http://enenews.com/journalist-tepco-whistleblower-says-reactor-4-very-unstable-and-dangerous-more-people-are-concerned-about-situation/comment-page-1
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fukushima, again.
“Lets take a look now at what Senator Wyden actually saw, and which got him so concerned….
“….This is the building exterior as it is now, with the crane apparatus from the previous photo now visible through that mammoth hole in the wall. Observe too that the fuel pool is elevated above ground (on the 3rd and 4th “floor”, actually) and is thus supported by what’s left of the building in which it is housed.
http://www.9thousandfeet.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/pict32-1024×682.jpg
http://www.9thousandfeet.com/blog/2012/05/fukushima-again/
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http://www.peakprosperity.com/files/u4/Reactor_4_bent_rods_3-17-2011_12-08-44_PM.jpg
“Clearly we see that the structural integrity of the building is now severely compromised, and that’s the source of the greatest worries. The entire structure is now so flimsy that even a relatively small earthquake may topple the whole thing, pool and all, and thus expose the fuel rods and release enormous amounts of radiation. Were that to happen there really is no medicine for it, so a non-cataclysmic outcome to this whole mess depends on there not being an earthquake of sufficient magnitude to damage the structures sufficiently to just dump the contents of the pools out onto the ground. Note that there is no ‘hardened’ containment for these storage pools, unlike the reactor core itself…..
“’ So now they’re stuck,” said Alvarez, ‘The NRC has made this policy decision, which the industry is very violently opposed to changing because it saves them a ton of money. And if they have to go to dry hardened storage onsite, they’re going to have to fork over several hundred million dollars per reactor to do this.’….”
http://www.9thousandfeet.com/blog/2012/05/fukushima-again/
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http://www.peakprosperity.com/files/u4/Reactor_4_bent_rods_3-17-2011_12-08-44_PM.jpg
from:
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/nuclear-experts-step-step-assessment-fukushima-disaster-what-you-need-know/55068
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http://resiliencesystem.org/sites/default/files/u257/fukushima-daiichi-reactor-unit-4-022012.jpg
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High radiation levels slowly turn reactor building concrete to dust.
The rector buildings are slowly sinking and tilting.
Saltwater has so corroded pipes and pumps that they will last only 3 to 6 more years before failure.
Water pipes leak and burst in the winter cold.
Buildings1,2,&3 are too radioactive for workers to go inside to make repairs.
Compromised spent fuel assemblies will spill fuel pellet as they are removed.
Earthquakes disturb underground corium, releasing smoke and steam from between the buildings.
Ground water passes corium, becomes highly contaminated, and pours unchecked into the Pacific Ocean.
The Pacific Ocean Seafood Industry is approaching a state of collapse. (Mutant king crab, anyone?)
Many thanks, Marrkww. We hear you loud and clear.
I hope your message gets through to the right people when the chips are down.
Thank you anne, for your tireless reserch and communiction efforts!
Don't you EVER sleep?
Between the SFPs and the underground corium, I have come to believe that the corium is the greater threat to the survival of the human race. Because of the continuous outflow of contaminated ground water into the Pacific Ocean. IMHO. Peace, all.
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Question to wise.
If it takes five years to cool spent fuel rods in SFP at 50 degrees, if you bring that temptress down in sfp does it reduce the time for spent fuel rod to cool, if so why not cool water to speed things up.
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Certainly not wise, but I will try to help out.
If you have something hot, say a big hot potato, you could leave it on a plate, where it might take an hour to cool down. If you want to cool it down in five minutes (for the sake of physical experimentation, not for culinary reasons) you will achieve that by putting the hot potato in ice-cold water. The colder and the more water, the faster. I guess, this is what you are aiming at?
Now, imagine, you have a special potato from nuclear wonderland, which is not only hot, but has its own energy source built in, which will produce fresh heat every minute, for some years to come. Imagine some kind of batterie plus electric heater amidst the potato! No matter, what kind of treatment you give that potato, the amount of energy it produces every minute is the same. You could pack it in ice, which will bring its temperature down for a moment, but after retrieving it from the ice, you are on square one after a short while – it starts to glow the same whether you had it in ice or not. Only over the course of a few years the battery dies very slowly and the amount of new energy per minute becomes smaller. This is what you have have to wait for, before you can put your potato/your spent fuel rod into dry storage.
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Good job Maxli…I have been doing a lot of spent fuel rod research myself and looking at how the heat exchangers works, the temperature of the spent fuel ponds that create evaporation and loss of coolant, etc..
An interesting little-known spent fuel rod document here:
http://soe.rutgers.edu/files/Nuke.pdf
The authors attest the normal operating pool temperatures at much higher than I have read. Excerpt:
"The temperature in a spent nuclear fuel pool is usually between 90 and
190 degrees Celsius, but during loading days every 12 to 18 months that temperature rises[1]. During this time, new spent fuel rods are placed in the center of the pool and older fuels are moved to the perimeter of the stainless steel liner. Due to the high temperatures during these times, the stainless steel liner will swell more. This swelling causes a lack in general tensile strength and greater vulnerability to corrosion, which results in weakening and cracking and ultimately radiological leakage into the concrete container."
SP: At Fairewinds Arnie speaks of the safer checkerboarding method of stacking at US pants versus the grouping of hot among hot rods by the Japanese.
http://fairewinds.org/content/can-spent-fuel-pools-catch-fire
"The Japanese put all of their nuclear fuel from this latest core offload in a very confined space in the pool. In America, we do not do that. We call it checker-boarding."
SP: Yes indeed…checkmate at Daiichi!
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Great balls of fire, thanks for the link SP, I recommend we all read, sfp never intended for long term storage over time radiation degrades stainless steel liner depending on temp, types of radiation and dose etc. Little studied and every situation is different to many variables, same old song and dance no definitive answers all smoke and mirrors.
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Thanks maxli so it is not possible to achieve absolute zero with radioactive substances as they produce their own heat which makes it impossible and there is no way to speed up or slow down and must let it do it's own thing.
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"What To Do If A Nuclear Disaster Is Imminent"
http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm
Haven't read it all yet, but putting it here because more info is better than no info.
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@Mack… Thanks for that link my friend
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Mack: A copy of this is going right in the glove box! Many thanks!
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http://www.americansaferoom.com/Safe-Cell-NBC-air-filtration-systems.htm
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