Fukushima Worst-Case: Beyond 250km could be evacuation zone if fuel in SFP No. 4 melts — Covering pool, reactors with sand mixture was considered as last resort

Published: January 7th, 2012 at 5:17 pm ET
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Government envisioned Tokyo evacuation in worst-case scenario, AJW by The Asahi Shimbun, Jan. 7, 2012:

[...] In a worst-case scenario, the central government would have requested the evacuation of Tokyo and everyone within a 250-kilometer radius of the damaged Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

Goshi Hosono, minister in charge of the nuclear disaster [...] said the government had not disclosed the report, which had been submitted on March 25, out of concern over public reaction.

“We had refrained from publicizing it because we were afraid that it could cause the public to grow excessively worried,” he said. [...]

The Scenario

  • Melting of 1,535 fuel assemblies, an equivalent of fuel used for two reactors, kept in a spent fuel storage pool at the No. 4 reactor
  • If another hydrogen explosion took place at the No. 1 reactor, workers would be forced to flee and suspend recovery operations
  • Resulting in an enormous amount of radioactive material released from the pool in two weeks

Beyond 250-km

High radiation levels could have extended beyond the 250-km radius, and people in those areas would have also been advised to relocate

Less Worse Worst-Case Scenario

If the release of cesium was limited to an equivalent of one reactor, the mandatory evacuation zone would have been a radius of 110 km and recommended evacuation a radius of 200 km

Decades?

It would have taken several decades for radiation levels to decrease naturally in the mandatory and voluntary evacuation zones

Worst-Cast Last Resort

Blocking radiation by covering the damaged reactors and the pool with 1,100 tons of materials mixed with sand and water each was considered a last resort to contain the crisis

Published: January 7th, 2012 at 5:17 pm ET
By
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73 comments

Related Posts

  1. Top Japan Official: Evacuating Tokyo was a ‘contingency’, not worst-case scenario — "Implementing COST-EFFECTIVE measures was the proper response" February 14, 2012
  2. NHK 3/11 Documentary: “The worst case scenario was unfolding” at Fukushima Unit 3 (VIDEO) November 27, 2012
  3. Kyodo: Secret worst scenario was ‘reactor explosion’ at No. 1 and Spent Fuel Pool 4 drying up -Hosono January 6, 2012
  4. Asahi: US gov’t considered “immediately evacuating” all citizens living in Japan, including entire military January 31, 2013
  5. Asahi: The explosion at Fukushima Reactor 3 had seriously damaged Reactor 2 — “Worst possible case” was predicted soon after — Many workers abandoned facility March 21, 2013

73 comments to Fukushima Worst-Case: Beyond 250km could be evacuation zone if fuel in SFP No. 4 melts — Covering pool, reactors with sand mixture was considered as last resort

  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    Sand? Why not throwing a blanket over it? Looks nicer. Makes people happy.

    *night all. Fed up.


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  • tjharleycjmp

    So that is how they should have reacted then?

    tj


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    • Anthony Anthony

      ***Chernobyl is a better predictor of the Fukushima consequences than Hiroshima, but we wouldn’t know that from mainstream media.   Perhaps we would rather not know that 57% of Chernobyl contamination went outside the former USSR; that people as far away as Oregon were warned not to drink rainwater “for some time”; that thyroid cancer doubled in Connecticut in the six years following the accident; that 369 farms in Great Britain remained contaminated 23 years after the catastrophe;  that the German government compensates hunters for wild boar meat too contaminated to be eaten – and it paid four times more in compensation in 2009 than in 2007.  Perhaps we’d rather not consider the possibility that “the Chernobyl cancer toll is one of the soundest reasons for the ‘cancer epidemic’ that has been afflicting humankind since the end of the 20th century.***


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    • Anthony Anthony

      Sorry not sure why it posted here!? Cheers


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  • Whoopie Whoopie

    NewTweet Russian envoy pledges not to repeat Hiroshima, Fukushima calamities+
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9OTSE480&show_article=1

    Excuse me?!? How can he say that!?!?
    Deaths and illnesses are showing up right now, many more will come.
    He concludes:
    “On nuclear power plants, he said, “I am convinced that the future world will definitely use nuclear energy.”


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  • Anthony Anthony

    Science with a Skew: The Nuclear Power Industry After Chernobyl and Fukushima
    Saturday 7 January 2012
    by: Gayle Greene, The Asia-Pacific Journal | News Analysis

    http://www.truth-out.org/science-skew-nuclear-power-industry-after-chernobyl-and-fukushima/1325956958


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    • Whoopie Whoopie

      George Moonbat is in comments. You know him dont you?
      NUKE TOOL George Monbiot


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      • Anthony Anthony

        Hmmm havent encountered him…and too cautious to name ‘my asstroll’ pronuke HP nemisis here…he’s a true butt-wipe. Im sure you’ve crossed his dark light at HP by now Whoopie!!!! He certainly couldnt resist attacking your light!


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      • George Monbiot is not doing himself or anyone any good.

        At one point he stomped his foot down like a spoilt kid and decided he would take a certain stance.

        But people operate in weird ways. If you look at it benignly, he might be doing what in mathematics we called a proof using reduction ad absurdum. You assume the opposite of something until you arrive at a contradiction.

        So, let’s assume there is no radiation whatsoever, that the kids in Belarus and Southern Iraq are not all deformed and dying painful deaths, then wait til the evidence starts pouring in.

        Problem is, the evidence is already here, thus proving he’s a plain idiot, as Helen Caldicott and others know only too well.

        George: you can do better, and you know it. We’re looking forward to you “Aha!” moment, but we’re not holding our breath.


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    • Kevin Kevin

      I have posted this peice in other threads today. Its a good read.


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    I would imagine they are trying to get the heat out.
    A sand mixture might, contain boron??

    I would like to know what’s in the mixture and their reasoning why this could work.

    Personal opinion: This is worse than Chernobyl, and that is still going on. Once these plants are built, they can’t kill them, there is “No Off Switch”.

    ~End Nuclear Power~


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  • or-well

    “But look folks, worst case didn’t happen. Good thing we took precautions, but now most of those evacuated can return home. Phew, good thing dedicated TEPCO people have it under control. For those few needing compensation don’t worry, we’ll take care of that.”

    Oh…he didn’t say that?


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  • Tunnel full of radioactively-contaminated water found at Fukushima nuclear plant

    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/archive/news/2012/01/07/20120107p2a00m0na011000c.html

    Photo exhibition shows pictures of animals left behind in Fukushima no-go zone
    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/archive/news/2012/01/07/20120107p2a00m0na002000c.html

    Hiroshima mayor, governor protest 3rd U.S. plutonium test
    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/archive/news/2012/01/07/20120107p2g00m0dm011000c.html

    U.S. gov’t says it conducted 4th plutonium test in last Nov.
    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/international/archive/news/2012/01/07/20120107p2g00m0in015000c.html


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  • Anthony Anthony

    Tunnel full of radioactively-contaminated water found at Fukushima nuclear plant

    A massive amount of water contaminated with radiation has been found in a tunnel at a waste treatment facility at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant, the plant operator said.

    The radioactive water amounts to 142 cubic meters, enough to fill 710 drums, and it contains about 100 becquerels of radioactive cesium per liter, according to Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO). Company officials said that the radioactive water has not leaked into the sea from the tunnel.
    http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20120107p2a00m0na011000c.html


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    • 100 becquerels of radioactive cesium per liter

      I doubt that the number reflects the true contamination level.


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      • Anthony Anthony

        Hey….would YOU take a vacation in HI knowing what we know Taco? I think we’re getting coated on the coast. I cant get the sour taste out of my mouth. Sour..bitter like chemical flavored. I think also there are emmissions occurring nearing early 311 levels as cummulation continues the deadly rise. The contamination is grossly accumulating against our favor.


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        • WindorSolarPlease

          Hi Anthony

          I know I would rather vacation in New Zealand instead, sorry. At one time I would have loved to see Hawaii, not anymore.

          Our Daughter visited Hawaii long ago. She said, “It was paradise, just beautiful, the people were awesome.” She had a wonderful time there.


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          • Anthony Anthony

            I agree 100%!! And though another poster suggested Id have nothing to fear by going….the hesitation in me remains whether I like it or not. My instincts tell me poison is poison.

            Its a tough one… HI is truly paradisr.


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            • WindorSolarPlease

              Hi Anthony

              Paradise is paradise, when it’s not poisoned.

              If you have a chance to leave, don’t wait for the dust to settle on your shoes, you might not like that dust.


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            • Hawaii is not paradise.
              We all want to believe that there is some special place, like a real disneyland, kind of like we all are attracted to the idea of finding a treasure.

              Hawaii has been blessed with incredible natural beauty, and the people AND especially the government of Hawaii have squandered it. The average family in Hawaii makes around 54,000 per year, yet to live a “normal” life it costs almost 11,000 per month. The oceans have been raped, i used to SCUBA dive but now that is a joke. The land has been raped, spurred on by developers lining the pockets of regulators. The educational system is a complete sham and not only that, education is not respected at all by 90% of the people. 1/3 of everyone works in government, sucking off the government titty, their benefits and pay far outstrip the few people who actually run a business and produce something.

              The government taxes the shit out of business, extracting 5% of every piece of every transaction for the “privilege” of doing business in Hawaii, yes they really say this. Last I checked, it was not a “privilege” to earn a living and produce, but who follows the constitution anymore.

              Nepotism, corruption, government waste, and xenophobia are rampant. Theft crimes are incredibly common, most people have been robbed between 2 and 10 times, and the police do nothing, they consider it the “birth right” of uneducated donkeys as another source of income, especially when they are ripping off tourist cars on the beach.

              And indeed, there are some of the nicest people in the world in Hawaii, and some of the most evil, evil and stupid not even realizing how they are squandering one of the greatest gifts on the earth.

              Hawaii got dosed with 2600% excess uranium in the air compared to baseline, and the media completely covered it up.


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              • WindorSolarPlease

                Hi stock@hawaii.rr.com

                To be honest, there is no place on this earth that is paradise. In my book, that would be heaven.

                It was a figure of speech, because it is a beautiful place.
                I probably should have made myself clearer on that.

                I have heard everything is very expensive in Hawaii. It’s not a cheap place to live or to vacation at.

                Unfortunately crime has gone up everywhere. Scary times we are living in. I remember a different time, when house doors and car doors would be left unlocked. Can’t do that anymore.

                I know our pay scale is very low here.
                Effective January 1, 2012, our minimum wage is $7.65 per hour..Try to live on that, when rent, food, gas, utilities have all gone up at a higher percentage than the recent increase of the minimum wage.

                I know I would not like that uranium dust on my shoes. If I could move my family, I would, and I don’t live any where near Hawaii.


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                • americancommntr

                  It’s getting scary, for sure. It’s getting scare at an exponental rate. It’s getting scary like yesterday.

                  Last week I read some new articles about mind control patents and technology, with more mention of cell phone towers being usable for this.

                  I learned last night about ‘rfid dust’ and ‘rfid ink’, and plans by one company for a rfid chip in ecery sheet of paper it produces. If the rfid chips Walmart puts in the clothing it sells you, aren’t enough to identify you when you walk in and move around their stores, the technology is here now for instant facial recognition.

                  Companies are tracking pallets of stock moving around the country in trucks, from satellites in space.

                  This afternoon, I learned about the federal DOT’s requirements toward their plan of knowing the realtime location of every commercial truck in interstate commerce in the US, and the identity of every driver when in the truck. They are pushing i.d. cards for all 50 states which have an rfid readable chip. An ‘industry’ article about it, also had an article about truck driver health, and how a ‘recent study’ determined that 28% of drivers are affected by sleep apnea. This sounds to me like the next step is a chip in the driver to tell if he has apnea or not when sleeping. The article also mentioned how important it is for drivers to have flu shots, ‘the best strategy for reducing the risk of getting sick’.

                  All new cell phones have a gps chip, and are themselves spy devices for the government, on each individual.

                  The amount of technical knowledge is more than doubling every couple years, the rate is exponentially increasing. By the old rate in 30 years there’d be one million times more.

                  The technology for a global dictatorship is here, now, and will only get better.


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                  • WindorSolarPlease

                    Hi americancommntr

                    Things are changing at a fast pace, and so many people aren’t aware yet.

                    I don’t know if we will see this in our life time, some day they will put a mark in the people’s right hand, or in their foreheads to buy or sell anything.
                    Don’t Do It.

                    Big brother is watching us more and more. Times are changing, this is not what we meant when we said we want change.


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                    • americancommntr

                      You’re right WindorSolarPlease, take no Marks. One trouble is discerning which things may constitute the mark mentioned in Revelation.

                      In view of the rapid advances, I wonder if “The Matrix”, was not either an in-our-face announcement from the perpetrators, or a forewarning from a deep thinker.

                      As you said, so many people are not aware yet. To a degree, the movie “The Matrix” is already in place, only instead of being hooked up physically to a machine, or machination, people are mentally hooked up and unaware.

                      That’s how an industry and its owners can control something as dangerous to life as nuclear power, and get away with millions of cancer deaths, censoring it from 98% of public news view, and brainwashing the public to respond as it wants, to recite its mantras like ‘clean’ and ‘safe’, when it’s plainly obvious it is not, and wipes out a France-sized or larger area forever every so many years, among many other damages.

                      I think it’s likely the US and maybe other militaries are already 20 or 30 years ahead in computers and programming compared to what the private sector knows.

                      There’s some possibility of there being sentient supercomputers out there right now. The next major war could be one fought by such computers, controlling every asset possible, with perfection, including individual people.

                      Couple the technology revealed in merely the unclassified US patents on ‘mind control’ type discoveries and methods, with a sentient supercomputer, brings the possibilty of a system whereby individual people can be controlled and made to do things they otherwise wouldn’t.

                      The best defense right now, aside from a relationship with the Creator, is for all citizens of all countries to use their influence and citizenship to resist, divide, and conquer the enemy, by legal and electoral means.

                      Life’s never been safe from evil, since ‘the Fall’.


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                  • Drones plains over head watching u too !


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              • Bob Hardin Bob Hardin

                Could you give me a source for the 2600% excess uranium in the air in Hawaii? I couldn’t find it at any of your links in this thread.


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        • In all respects to hawaiian’s: No; I would not take a vacation to hawaii at this time.

          I feel that there is enough radiation here in Washington to avoid at the present moment in time. Although, I will admit that I did not follow the jetstream mapping for hawaii, as closely as I did the west coast. I feel that the radiation amount per sq km. Is equal or worse than that of my home state. Being that hawaii is in a closer geographical location than my own home.

          This is not really conclusive. However it is my gut feeling along with simple deduction in cause and effect that this would be the case.

          There is a user here from hawaii (cant remember their screen name)… But I know that they would have an opinion that may even alter from my own. (Being that they monitored their fallout dispersal charts constantly) (as I: more, or less, had only monitored washington states fallout.)

          Sorry I suppose im selfish when it comes to my own survival ;)


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      • Kevin Kevin

        Good work Taco!

        Way to call ‘em as you Ceasium!

        ;)


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  • http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/national/12006359140650/12-year-old-girl-who-blogged-cancer-fight-has-died/

    The Orange County seventh-grader, called “Jessie” by family and friends, began her blog and Facebook page after being diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor in March. A second tumor was discovered in September.

    Read more: http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/national/12006359140650/12-year-old-girl-who-blogged-cancer-fight-has-died/#ixzz1iot2JC9v


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  • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

    Japanese MSM disinformation as red herring or to confuse about current and ongoing big or bigger problems. First as to the bullets and sidebar points above: a) Partial melting/fires in SFP4 at F1 multiple times. Maybe they did something right with the cooling in SFP4? I am not convinced that the F1 SFP4 has leaked corium; but it still could and SFP4 easily could have a NUCLEAR explosion. We do have coriums randomly fissioning away beneath F1 R1-R3. b) (no order to my address of above points, sorry) R1 might have had a hydrogen explosion; but that is NOT the big deal, the big deal is NUCLEAR explosion with another NUCLEAR explosion or two at R3! Reactor corium, core nuclear explosions are big deals and are very inefficient–meaning they can occur repeatedly with ongoing prompt criticalities. c) The impression given above is that worker safety matters to Japan/TEPCO, “they will be evacuated if”–This is utter rubbish as they patently could care less about worker safety as we all know at ENE. What they might really be saying is that they don’t want to spend any more money or time on this issue at F1 because it will potentially increase their liability to future lawsuits definitely coming. Who knows what strategies entrenched greedy powers will use over F1, other nuclear failures, anthropogenic thermal maximum and mass extinctions to list but a few. d) They should, it must be clarified, have used magnesium sand to encourage glassification (something done right at Tchernobyl). I don’t trust anything that the Japanese MSM says. e) Radioactivity in fallout deposition locations continuously grows contrary to the implications in their piece. This is more true with random fission radionuclide sources, increasing concentrations in rains and in major air transport mechanisms, such as the jet streams. In contaminated areas in Belarus/Ukraine/Russia, at least, radioactivity is increasing (C137 >25yrs.)even though it was only one week of emissions there. 10 months so far F1!


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    • Anthony Anthony

      Yes Pallas as I tried to express above with Taco….totally agree with your thoughts completely.


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

        Sorry Anthony: I get fired up when I see the Govt./Corporate/MSM lies and start responding, often before reading all the posts. Then, afterward, I go back and read everyone’s post in the threat, follow the interesting links posted by all the good people here, and try to post mea culpas or corrections of my content where appropriate. Please forgive me if I’ve repeated points you already made.


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Or TEPCO/Japanese Government might be carving out a way of spending the $trillions of yen projected as needed to deal with this mess, not that it’s really known by such an insufficient governing body how such will be dealt with, on pocketed profits. Earmarked monies going to stockholders, owners, subcontractors, bigger shares if there are fewer working there. Another possibility I just want to throw out there.


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

        and this is PUBLIC money in the $hundreds of billions of dollars and trillons of yen that is NOW and future being pocketed as the responding organizations are ALL profiteering. The same people that brought us the crisis! These are profits made in the usual unevenly and always inefficiently distributed corporatist way by people who are most responsible for the mess in the first place. This profound fail is the kind that can end all life–LITERALLY unless much more effective strategies, only possible with total immediate transparency and citizen directly democratic control, are implemented progressively and in an evolving way. I wonder why the public hasn’t realized that they’ve had bought for them (by TEPCO/US military/Japan govt’s) and paid for a total right to utterly usurp and terminate the ponderous, unwarranted and presumptuous titular authority of completely non-representative status quo governing entities in this world’s worst human cataclysm, both of erstwhile national governments interfering through agents/intermediaries, or even more ridiculously by corporatist interlopers interfering directly with direct citizen control over the mess created by nuclear state powers and corporations. TEPCO/Japan Govt./World Nuclear Industry has long proven administratively too feeble, inefficient and criminal for it to be in any way prudent for we citizens to continue to allow such hierarchies to perpetuate without correctly and judiciously (we decide what is judicious) assuming direct citizen control.


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    • I have some proofs related to R3 nuke explosion and the big Arnie actually wrote me back email and confirmed and clarified some of my theories, check it out here.

      http://nukepimp.blogspot.com/p/gundersen-email-and-theories.html
      http://nukepimp.blogspot.com/p/videos-moderated-prompt-criticality.html

      http://nukepimp.blogspot.com/2012/01/uranium-in-air.html


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      • VanneV anne

        Thank you stock@hi very much for sharing your theories and e-mails from Arnie Gundersen.


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      • WindorSolarPlease

        Hi stock@hawaii.rr.com

        This was very interesting, thank you.

        Argonne Nat’l Lab used to be a high security area, with scientists from all over the world who would stay there doing experiments together.

        My Dad worked there in the fire station as a fire fighter, EMT, drove the fire truck or ambulance, whatever what was needed, he did.

        I used their swimming pool every day in the summer, and I used to walk all over that place.
        The farm house I grew up in wasn’t far from there, now it’s a shopping place. Maybe that’s why my brain cells are fried?

        We didn’t know how dangerous those experiments were, waste was buried in the ground, the trees did get huge and grew quickly. There were grounds men and fire fighters who did get cancer, and who knows who else?

        I’m sure the area has changed since I was there, and hopefully the waste has been cleaned up. I don’t even know if they still do experiments? It would be fun to tour it.


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      • Radio VicFromOregon

        Thx, stock@hawaii. One more kernal of knowledge goes into my brain.


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  • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

    The fact that we have not heard, as far as I know, anything useful, new, empowering or deep about several important topics concerning F1 (or 18 other Japanese nuclear reactors in question) Collective SFP, high-level nuclear waste incineration, oceanic deposition or ongoing leaking of high-level waste, burying of high-level waste in various locations all over Japan, or low-level internalized risks, household contamination, etc., is also outrageous. Such a failure to report or to provide transparency proves, yes proves due to the hierarchical nature of all corporate entities, that there is fascist/corporatist direct control of the MSM by the most culpable stakeholders in this mess, the wealthiest and/or most militarized profiteering for c/y/a in the Japanese goverment and nuclear industry with the help of same in the U.S., France, UK, etc. The CEO’s, executive staff, most wealthy profiteering investors, owners, operators of these plants must literally be hunted down by pogroms of self empowered citizens, and separated severally and forced to interact with a binding, last-word decision making empowered citizen crisis control entity–democratically and transparently administered. Want to know how that works? Please study the French elections process. It’s NOT rocket science. Unfortunately, I believe that so far, the Japanese, like U.S. citizens (90%) are culturally self reinforcing their own incompetence in operating actually directly democratic self governance, which is needed many yesterdays ago in this process! Both the U.S. and Japan are addled by cultural mores that refuse to forcefully inquire/confront the wealthy or powerful. We need to learn from other nations/cultures past or present where this has occurred and implement the apple cart upsetting democratizing actions to thwart the destructive perpetually insufficient responses to these crises by martial and corporatist status quo pin-headed titular clique regimes.


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    • or-well

      When the Military turns it’s back on the State – revolution.
      I’m not paraphrasing you Pallas89juno, I’m making an observation.
      I do think it will take either Military neutrality or alliance with the citizenry before any of the elite will be “hunted down”.


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

        or-well I hear you and that’s a valid point. I think, on the other hand (or as an additional part, not replacing your thought, just brainstorming a bit) that there are 7B of us. What percentage are billionaires? What percentage are military? How much democracy do our fellows in the military, the rank and file enlisted types, manage to pull down? I think pogroms against the filthy despots is utterly possible and the military itself doesn’t represent a problem, except again in it’s leadership, which itself must also be hunted down and subdued by pogrom of the 7B. Now mercenaries, to me in my pin-sized one-person totally insufficient frog-in-the-well viewpoint, seem to be a HUGE problem because they feel, as do all really bourgie types, that they are going to be the billionaire class or are compensated in ways (often more than $350K a year tax free for U.S. contract mercenaries) that foster more loyalty in the unscrupulous. A movement in the U.S. to replace municipal police with private contract (rent-a-cop) police is trending across the U.S. in a crescendo fashion. The TSA has been deployed on our highways (just a bit here and there to start, but it will spread). This is not a good precedent as mercenaries fighting pogroms against the billionaires, despots will be a bigger problem, perhaps. (again, just brainstorming, I learn a lot by how people respond. Thank you and no offense intended.)


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        • or-well

          No offense taken.
          There’s many pieces on the chessboard.
          Not many of them are “ours”.
          I doubt City/County/State Law Enforcement Officers would stand against the Military (not for long anyway).
          But I believe many LEOs will obey orders to enact civil repression (under a different name and rationale of course).

          As you say, the -garchy
          (oli, pluto, klepto, harpo, groucho, chico etc) can afford to buy a lot of “loyalty” from guns-for-hire.

          I think folks need to wake up and admit thats what the military essentially is. There’s just different levels of armament and responsibility.

          But the gunslingers have folks, family and kin. Also salaries, pensions, mortgages and even investments. Imperial over-reach is expensive. Veteran care is an ongoing, expanding cost. There’s a tipping point coming. The cost of the Romes’ Legions etc.
          Mercs cost even more but thats the war profiteers bleeding the system.

          Back to my point…the guys with the guns will have to be on “our” side, forget raw numbers. Yes, an intelligent, organised large demonstration can take out local LEOs, now and again, depending on the will of both sides, the willingness or not to use deadly force and the willingness to be a casualty. It’s not something to count on. We’re a long way from Tahrir Square here in N. Amer.

          But there’s ample reason now in fact, for the individuals who comprise LE and the Military to act in their own self -interest if they can see that it is also in the peoples and the nations best interest.

          I’m just saying there’s a lot of steps, or if things devolve/cascade quicker than most expect, maybe not so many, but either way the overthrow of the hierarchy is going to take a lot more than voting,charity donations, good intentions, placards, petitions and prayers.

          My head hurts.


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  • WindorSolarPlease

    I don’t want hunting down, violence, killing, hurting people, chaos in the streets, or marshall law.

    I prefer: Peaceful legal demonstrations, working within the laws and using the laws to change things.


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    • or-well

      The laws we have that might be of use are not being enforced. The rest are not to advantage you or me, there are there to cover and advantage the elite.

      All normal decent people want law, logic, sanity and peace to prevail.

      So why don’t we have those things?

      There’s want most of humanity would prefer and then there’s what we get.

      Changing things by law will mean re-capturing the regulatory agencies that have been captured by vested intersts.

      And it will mean having Legislators who will enact law that is just.

      What most of us would prefer isn’t what we’ve been given so far and it isn’t what we are going to get without a struggle.


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    • vivvi

      Sorry, windsor, but I am sure you have noticed that people have tried the peaceful protest method for many years, and the elite mother-raping despots ignore it all like the masses are just annoying bugs.

      When in history has any tyrannical dictator ever deposed himself because the people wanted rid of him? Has it ever happened? Tyrants and despots hang on to the last breath, and don’t care at all how many they have to kill to get their way. Mubarek being a very recent example.
      I wish it were not so, but sadly I recognise that the only way we will rid ourselves of these power-drunk money-junkie corporate criminals is to remove them by force. You may baulk at the idea of killing them, but rest assured, they have no such reservation about killing you, especially if there is a dollar to be made out of it somewhere. I wouldn’t cry about it if somebody decided to “remove” corporate trash like the head of tepco or any of these filthy lying murdering cronies. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I don’t buy into the brainwashing that we should sit back and sing protest songs while they poison us for profit. If a grizzly bear was about to eat your child would you sing protest songs at it? The radiation monster is trying to kill your grandchildren. What you gonna do about it?


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    • That might just be wishful thinking.


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    • WindorSolarPlease

      Change the laws then, Peaceful legal demonstrations, working within the laws and using the laws to change things.

      This is how I roll, sorry you can’t change me on this.

      I agree this radiation monster is deadly, but no one has yet found the turn off switch. Damage is here from Fukushima and it will keep coming.

      I have a Husband, a new Grandson and I have the Two wonderful Adult Kids and I’m lucky that I have a very nice Daughter-In-Law, plus a possible Son-In-Law, and two very sweet tiny Chihuahuas in my life. I want them to have a safe, secure, happy, and healthy life.

      I don’t know when, but I can see civil unrest happening, and I do understand the fiery. Just because I don’t act on that fiery, doesn’t mean I don’t have it also.

      Vengeance is the Lords, and his fiery will be more than I could ever give.
      I’m not going into my beliefs, but I wanted to give you an idea of why you can’t change me.


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      • or-well

        @WindSolarPlease

        I can only speak for me.

        I don’t want to change you WindSolarPlease.

        While I expect struggle will be necessary to get what we prefer, I’d prefer it wasn’t.

        That’s why the second to last paragraph of my post at 8:35 above points out the hopeful possibility that those folks who might be ordered to act against us have good reasons not to.

        There is a challenge there – to help inform, educate, and grow the awareness of law enforcement and military folks, so they can help make change a peaceful process.

        That’s a very important point I think is being overlooked.

        Voices like yours – emphasizing Law and the protection of us, the citizenry, should resonate with those who supposedly honor and respect a “code” that includes protecting the Nation and the defenceless.

        I hope you see this, probably not, as threads “go stale” here pretty fast.


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        • americancommntr

          In many states, ballot initiatives are possible to make new legislation and get directly to the electorate.

          One legal move, called, “Quo Warranto”, is already on books in some states, but generally not directly available to the people. It could be made so.

          Quo Warranto can be used to ‘rip’ a law-breaking public official out of office, no questions asked other than whether he or she broke the law or not.

          This legal weapon would wreak good change in a lot of ways. First, individuals would have a tool for dealing with lawbreaking officials, including lawmakers. Second, officials and lawmakers would then start doing something about the overwhelming plethora of laws we have to follow.

          Another tool is one now in California; small claims court maximum awards amount was reportedly raised to $10,000. The law there reportedly also does not allow attorneys in court, so a company has to defend itself without a lawyer, or battalion of lawyers, their typical advantage over an individual.

          Imagine if 10,000 fed-up Californians took Tepco, or the owners of any area-contaminating plant, into small claims court, for the pollution they have caused, and the damages to their property. That would be an attention-getting 100 million dollar whack in the behind. How many individual Sierra Club members are there in California? With isotoptic contamination in their backyards and gardens, bearing the signature of Tepco, or of their closest nuclear plant?


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          • americancommntr

            Further, if such a Sierra Club member filing such a suit is within proximity to enough others, the damage award would impact two or more of their neighbors. Those neighbors’ awards would impact more neighbors. There would be a constant doubling. If a criticality were achieved, it could spread to the unemployed, taxed and angry masses who generally are not politicoactive enough to otherwise sue a nuclear company. A very energetic, legal, and financially destructive activity would be released. The economic blast would destroy nuclear power companies. The fallout would change the landscape forever.


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  • Grampybone Grampybone

    250km is too small of an evacuation zone for the magnitude of the Fukushima disaster. Korea is getting a light peppering of cesium. China is busy killing it’s own people. Kim Jong Kid can’t turn on the lights, and Hillary Clinton is stuffing her fat face with pacific sushi. I’d try to eat the rich…but they’ll be the most irradiated ones. It’s snowing in Denver and I had to walk for 5 minutes in the snow to get my pizza. Every part of my pursuit of food was terrifying. At least the irradiated onions tasted great. When the spent fuel pool collapses into the lower floors of the building 250km will look like a joke.


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