Geologist: 50 to 100 million cubic feet of gas in aquifer near giant sinkhole (VIDEO)

Published: December 19th, 2012 at 12:04 pm ET
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Watch the video here

Title: Bayou Corne Resident MTG
Source: rainbeaudais
Date: Dec 18, 2012

Gary Hecox, a Shaw Environmental and Infrastructure Inc. geologist working on the issue for the State of Louisiana:

This is what people have been wondering about.

50 to 100 million cubic feet of gas at formation pressure, which is about 50 psi. So that’s not surface, That’s under 50 psi pressure.

That’s what’s in place in the aquifer according to our best estimate calculation.

So people are wondering — these are the kind of numbers we’re dealing with. This is not a small quantity of gas.

Published: December 19th, 2012 at 12:04 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
161 comments

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161 comments to Geologist: 50 to 100 million cubic feet of gas in aquifer near giant sinkhole (VIDEO)

  • 16Penny 16Penny

    With that much gas present in the aquifer isn't it very likely to be migrating uphill in the formation, whichever cardinal direction that is. I wonder if LDNR has searched uphill from the collapse site for gas migration. This Methane/h2s gas could easily move many miles underground. Also Hecox did say that H2S was detected in the aquifer.


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    • Nukites

      Uphill is right, but underground formations frequently do not match surface topography. There have been some diagrams about what the subsurface structures look like around the salt dome. There are pockets where oil, especially, has migrated because it floats. I think the gas is in solution in the water, so its behavior is regulated by the weight of everything above it. It stays under pressure by staying underground, and I think this is what everyone hopes continues to be the case.


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      • Thad

        Nukites
        MSDS -Methane solubility in water 3.3%, H2S 2.6%
        The ceiling of the aquifer has pocket or high place where the gas collect — Hecox said as high as 10'. These are the places they try to put the vents–
        To give some idea 50 million cubic ft would be close to 1 mile x 2 miles x 1 ft thick


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      • FREEDOMROX

        The first natural gas aquifer was undertaken in Kentucky in 1946, easy to look up. Unfortunately, Bayou Corne has the worst conditions for methane storage in the US, but they do exist.

        "There are many underground gas storage facilities located in aquifers. Such structures may be used for underground gas storage when the aquifer stratum is covered by impermeable rock stratum and forms a trap. The geology of aquifers is similar to that of partly depleted hydrocarbon reservoirs but the construction of underground gas storage normally requires a larger gas cushion to be formed and more detailed monitoring of the gas injection and withdrawal process. Also, no existing technical infrastructure, such as wells, pipelines, dehydrating installations, compressors, etc. is available in this case. Comparing to installations in depleted reservoirs, UGS facilities in aquifers may require more powerful compressors and more efficient dehydrating equipment. On the other hand, owing to the presence of water, the pressure in such facility is higher which results in the possibility to achieve higher gas withdrawal rates. This is particularly important in case of a sudden need to deliver large volumes of gas to the grid."

        http://www.osm.pgnig.pl/osm/jak/zawodnione/?s,main,language=EN


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  • rainbeaudais rainbeaudais

    Yes, Hecox did. He called it "blips" and NO one picked up on that.I'm glad you did. "Blips" lead to bigger problems.

    When the first H2S was discovered several weeks ago, they assured us it was an isolated incident, and entombing it was the best solution. A TB rep stood there and reassured meof that for 30 minutes. I knew better. Then it comes up a second time…..and now "blips".

    I was frustrated in the meeting in that so many things came up, and they kinda just threw some things in there that I think people missed. Way too much info to process in 2 hours, especially when not ONE word of it was good news.


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    • jec jec

      @rainbeaudais, Wish it could be better. I listened to all your video captures (even with the less than fair mikes used by the officials). Here are some of my takeaways. First the H2S is a MAJOR issue, they have shutdown the one well and say its too dangerous to worry about currently (?!). They have 'workers' going to check well flares every hour and they carry personal gas detection devices. No H2S montoring devices can be put on the monitoring stations for some reason either (1) not available or (2)$$ or (3)doesnt work in Bayue Corne???. In triggered montior device, Texas Brine says to in emergency CALL 911 which throws rapid response(invalid triggers, or real emergency) on the local community. Now monitoring is also critical for not just "slab" building foundations..but raised. This increase the installation requirements. 21 bubble sites tested, and its determined they are venting approx 70,000 cf of gas a day. THATS A LOT. Normal figure of gas totals for other situations, 5000 cf a day. Which matches up with the 100,000,000 cf of projected gas in the aquafer. People can not be assured of any safety, homes are showing damage from subsidence (doors out of square, etc), evacutees will face at least a YEAR at a minimum from their homes-probably YEARS. And there is a question on the oil sources as it is NOT BIG HUM. Geologist mentioned four candidated for the sour oil (sulfur content) they were looking at. Since NOT BIG HUM, they probably know the source.


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    • FREEDOMROX

      Rain another thing you might have missed is that Hecox stated gas columns rising to as high as FIVE FEET underground. That means many places on dry land are venting gas as well, and most likely in the community. Hence their refusal to put any OW's that your kid's may trip over. They want you to buy your own wrist detectors? LOLOLOL!
      I have got to watch this all again, because it gets more ludicrous every time.


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    • 16Penny 16Penny

      Hey Rainbeau,
      I am not sure how the two gasses act together in a confined space, I am guessing they would mix and be present in the entire pocket of gas rather than separate. What is on my mind tonight about this situation is this:

      http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/outdoor-activities/water-sports/scuba3.htm

      So what I am thinking about tonight is at what depth is the pressure low enough to allow the gasses to come out of solution with the other liquids which are flowing up the collapse zone. Just like divers can get the bends, the gasses in the oil and brine are developing bubbles and pockets every time the pressure in the collapse zone is relieved. Look at the records. I am guessing you will find some seismic activity or heavy flaring immediately preceding "burps". My guess is that the pressure builds below a soil plug until the point it finds a pathway. As the pressure is relieved, like opening a shaken two liter, gas bubbles form rapidly, move towards the top of a void space, escaping towards the surface or aquifer. I am also thinking I saw that reflected in piano fingerprint diagrams as well. Samples from lower depths had much higher levels of lighter hydrocarbons, like gasses, while samples from the surface or holding tanks had lower concentrations.

      WTH does it mean? I am not sure. Maybe there is a way to intercept gasses at a lower depth (before the aquifer) by understanding this and exploiting it.


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      • FREEDOMROX

        Where have I heard that before? Hmmmm.
        "Well that is the problem now, isn't it? Pressures. Nothing put out to date accounts for it. I had thought that the debris and the narrow tube decribed in TB docs acted more as a flapper valve and when the accumulated methane, oil, and releasing air pockets would activate the valve in situ, then the back pressures close it. This not what was described by Rock Boy. There is no way there is not some communication with the sinkhole, or as any logical person would not expect to see any hydrocarbons at all floating on the surface."

        "I ran all the Sept. 25th fingerprint numbers and halfway down thought as you did, "junk diesel", but by the time I got to the end, I compared it with refined gasoline, and is a perfect match, except for the very high level of sulfur. That is not contained in a brine cavern, as a cushion."

        Look at the November presentation and you find more answers there, than you will in Dec. BS presentation…

        http://www.edsuite.com/proposals/proposals_280/shaw_group_presentation_fi_523.pdf

        Really look at it in detail. Many answers are there!


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  • HoTaters HoTaters

    Am very sorry for the people living there. This is finally mainstream media news. They could only ignore it for so long.


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    • FREEDOMROX

      I wished…where have you found this story in Mainstream, Taters? I sure haven't. It's all kept local, intentionally. Jindal just says, "I be amewican citzen boot from India, no like me? Fook U? Bayou Corne…we no like corn, I go to see India Consulate, sick of you American Whiners…live in my country, we live on 'Death Roads', and no real laws. What is the matter with you people? I am trying to make money for India here! Get out of my way you redneck fools!"

      I have no idea if that is a real quote or not, Jindal only speaks to Obama.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    Occidental leased the rights to that area, Well 1, 2 and 3 from Entergy/Koch back when it was stil in the Hooker domain, and was brining for products for Occidental, making them the lessor and customer.
    Actual owners of the land I do not know but in Gulf South documents, it states Koch Brothers owns or controls that area and Dow controls the rest.


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  • FREEDOMROX

    LOL, that is correct. ENEnews contributors are Rock Stars, (and probably on the 'No Fly List', and watchlist for DT, and who cares?).
    Shaw is also embroiled with investors over the proposed merger as well.


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  • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

    I was taken back by Dr. Hecox stating although the H2S situation is important, they have too many other situations to deal with it right now. How dangerous must the "other" situations be for them to put H2S on the back burner??? I will have to watch this all over again, as it was so much information, and one of the microphones sucked. The world famous Dr. Will Pettitt, Principal Geophysicist at Itasca Consulting Group sounded as if he were making a sales call, and in my opinion to date is probably a complete waste of time and money. Get some people in there to help Dr. Hecox. Although he is holding back, he appears to be as close to the truth as there is out there.


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    • PurpleRain

      I got the overall general impression that none of them really know what to do 'right now; but in any even none of them want to do anything at all with Christmas and New years holidays either…they just want to watch and 'monitor,'


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    • Thad

      LOL Friend and I were wondering about Itasca Consulting Group — how many of their caving studies were full of water and debris of different densities—
      Angle of walls stacking dry or when soil weighs less in fluid and is lubricated by that fluid is going to be different


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  • FREEDOMROX

    Sorry, built, but from his nervousness and the tremor in his voice, (so unlike him), as well as his new evasive manner seems ti indicate he's either been gotten to, or knows something really bad is about to happen.

    The Flyover is horrific and the waters are heading straight for Hwy. 70.


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  • razzz razzz

    "…Texas Brine is a private company so their finances aren't publicly released, but they are a subsidiary of Bayer AG…"

    How can you be a private company and at the same time be a subsidiary? You can't. Texas Brine is a private family owned LLC and Bayer, among many other companies, is just a customer. I'm sure you can request a copy of their last financial report. LLCs can go broke but the listed officers of the company retain all their personal property and bank accounts, that's why you file to be a LLC. (Not counting personal lawsuits like for fraud)

    Anyone or any company can invest monies in another company if agreed upon, giving a return on investment by attracting financing doesn't mean you give up ownership of your company.

    You might try reading the Texas Brine Co. site for information about the company and daily updates concerning the Bayou Corne incident besides many other links listed.


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  • carolb

    i have heard that Halliburton has played a part in this,, has anyone else,, i have been following this for a few months now and that name has been brought up more than once,, maybe someone should investigate it. Halliburton is not in my opinion a very nice trillionair, with a home base in Huston Tx. and one in Dubai…just my opinion. my heart goes out for you all and i am trying as much as possible to spread the news for you.. it needs to be international and stay on the news untill whatever happens, happens, I am from Tn


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    • FREEDOMROX

      Thank you Carol. No, I haven't heard anything about Halliburton, but then all oil firms in Houston are most likely hand in hand. I don't know where you live in Tenn., but howdy neighbor.


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    • Thad

      Halliburton furnished the cross at Calvary– I saw it on the internet-
      The corrupt division KBR was dumped, devestment, at a loss just to be rid of– about 7 yrs ago–What other company would dump a profit making division with open contracts– Now Halliburton is an oil field service company — nothing more, Halliburton never was an oil company,
      Oh – KBR still get gov contracts—


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      • FREEDOMROX

        I guess it would be the same Halliburton that bought Boots&Coots oil clean up service company 11 days before the April 20, 2010 blowout at Macondo and it's fortunes rose 85% coincidentally.
        Halliburton's hands are NOT clean.


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        • Thad

          Frox do the research– you know how companiers are bought. Halliburton made an offer to buy B&C stock before the disaster. It was not until the following Sept that Halliburton had purchased enough stock to control B&C.
          Also of intrest- B&C has not marine firefighting, no marine clean up ability–AND Not B&C or anyother companyhad wild well control ability in 5,000' of water– Finally B&C did no work in an shape or form on BP/ DWH/ Macondo disaster –not before or not after the blow out—–


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          • FREEDOMROX

            Sorry, no sale Thad. You do your research, because that is not what Boots and Coots states:

            http://www.halliburton.com/public/bc/contents/Brochures/H08927.pdf

            Look under the heading, "Well Control"
            "With a heritage that dates back to snubbing out Algeria's infamous "Devil's Cigarette Lighter" in 1961, the predecessors of those legends have worked on every continent. We were there for the Bay of Marchand blowout (1970), North Sea-Piper Alpha (1988), Operation Desert Storm-Kuwait (1991), Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003) and the Macondo disaster in the Gulf of Mexico (2010)."


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            • Thad

              All the locations mentioned were on land or above the surface of the water. No marine fire fighting- no clean up.
              The only work B&C did for BP was write a report– all past tense– after the blow out and after the kill—

              "BP hired John Wright, an employee of Boots and Coots International, Inc. (“Boots and
              Coots”), to investigate the Deepwater Horizon blowout. As part of that investigation, Wright
              investigated and wrote a report to BP regarding a negative pressure test performed aboard the vessel
              on April 20, 2010. At issue is whether Wright’s May 21, 2010 Report on his investigation, dubbed
              the Boots & Coots Report, is admissible. The Report was submitted for in camera review."

              This was all before 17Sept2010 the date B&C became A Halliburton company–

              http://www.halliburton.com/public/news/pubsdata/press_release/2010/corpnws_09172010.html


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              • FREEDOMROX

                I am just refuting your last statement,

                "Finally B&C did no work in an shape or form on BP/ DWH/ Macondo disaster –not before or not after the blow out—–"

                Clearly that was not a true statement. Now, you come back with a statement saying they did actually did do something of any shape, form, or fashion.

                Just saying…


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                • Thad

                  So I made a mistake– and corrected it.
                  Wrote a report on a part of the disaster well after the blow out.

                  You made a mistate as to when Halliburton acquired control of B&C but your mistakes don't count….


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                • Thad

                  Your statement–"bought Boots&Coots oil clean up service company 11 days before the April 20, 2010 blowout at Macondo"

                  'Boots&Coots oil clean up service company—-'
                  Mistake #1 B&C is NOT an oil clean up service company.

                  '11 days before the April 20, 2010 blowout at Macondo' Mistake #2 Halliburtons acquistion was not final until 17Sept'10.


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  • Thad

    The void concerns me more than anything- 2.8 milliom yd3– that is over 40 acres x 40 deep– think 30 footballs fields x 40 ft deep. 5 X the current sinkhole. What worries me is the worst case scenario presented for sinkhole enlargement considers the amount of material to finish filling the cavern but ignores the missing material void.
    The pressure 50 psi is the same as water pressure at 115 ft note Hecox briefing said most of the gas in the aguifer is at or about that depth..
    There is no reason methane can't be coming up through dry ground as easy as in the water. Ask the old people in Humble Tx in the '50s as kids they would take a coffee can and set on the so wind would not blow the methane away and toss in a match–pretty blue flame–
    Calling 911 — sucks Not bad mouthing the local BUT just how much training do they have in H2S, evacing and EMS or first aid meds for H2S poisoning, how many Scott air packs or other specific equipt. Do they even have personal H2S detector to check the areas they would be working in–
    They TxBrn, DNR, Shaw, et al have shown me NOTHING to indicate they fully understand what is happen and so there is no way to make it right. The void is a deal breaker, no way to fill, as is the formation water coming up the oil and gas– no way to stop. Add H2S to the mix — it time to fold the tent pack the wagon and get the frk out of Dodge-


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    • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

      That estimate was first used a few months ago wan't it? Would it no be more void space now?


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      • FREEDOMROX

        Actually "built" I don't think that was correct from the beginning! Remember Shaw says a part of the caprock is gone on the western edge, and the bow out of salt that was extruded past the caprock is gone. Why? This would leave a humungous void much larger than stated. Something is missing. I have looked at all the abandoned wells in the area, and they are all thru the west area where the oil road is and one very close to Rain's property, about 300 yards east of her property.
        I note subsidence over the whole area of abandoned wells, and believe there is a deeper fracture leading west at depth. I know if I say anything to her, she will jump me, but really don't know for certain until Geo's are online. They won't even show the tilt meters!


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    • 16Penny 16Penny

      Great line of thinking here! Also whether we agree on ongoing dissolving of the salt formation or not, at some point some salt dissolved. So we should have:

      Vcavern + Vsaltdissolved + Vhydrocarbonremoved = Void Total?

      Please don't shoot me, just putting out for consideration :)


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  • sentinelle sentinelle

    http://www.louisianasportsman.com/stories/2003/paradise-lost/petrochemical-industry.htm

    "One of the diseases besetting the Louisiana marsh is, in fact, the vacuum left when oil, gas and brine are pumped from the ground, according to a study in which Morton was instrumental.

    The USGS geologist partnered with Noreen A. Buster and M. Dennis Krohn to complete the study last year.

    'When the fluids are produced, then the pressure goes down in the reservoirs,' Morton explained. 'That causes the overburden sediments to settle.'

    Here’s how it works

    Oil, gas and brine have for millennia filled vast formations that are, simply put, caves buried deep within the earth.

    The roofs of these caverns remain put because of the pressure from the fluids within the cavities.

    However, when those fluids are removed and the openings are left empty, the “overburden sediments” — the earth above the now-empty deposits — begin to smash the roof of the cavity.

    This process is exacerbated in fields surrounding faults running through the Louisiana marsh. Fields such as Lirette and Lapeyrouse south of Chauvin are prime examples of the combined impacts of fluid extraction and fault movement.

    'There isn’t a catastrophic movement of the faults like with the San Andreas,' Morton said. 'It’s more like a creeping process.'

    In some areas of the country, where the overlying sediments are made of rock or hard earth, the result can be large sinkholes when the caverns abruptly…


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    • sentinelle sentinelle

      I found the above article looking for images of "formation water" for better understanding and came across the image and then checked out the article.


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    • FREEDOMROX

      Thank you Sentinelle, very good work product. This is the problem with a bayou, so many variables, especially when perforated by so many abandoned and operating wells in the vicinity. Very tectonically unstable. Other examples always shows a time period of stability, then a sudden release/collapse catastrophy.
      Altho' bad, this sinkhole has not yet reached its catastrophic potential yet.


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      • sentinelle sentinelle

        From what I'm reading about subsidence, what is coming up from underground (hydrocarbons, gas, and formation waters) unless this is being continuously replaced, is leaving hollow underground spaces. The brine being pumped back into the cavern wouldn't have an effect on this subsidence or prevent it. This is what I think might possibly be happening farther West. The ground is sinking in the direction of the flow of hydrocarbons underground. Time will tell.


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    • Thad

      sentinelle
      There are no caves, no voids in sedimentary basins containing oil. The oil/ gas is in the pore spaces of sandstone formations — True there can be some subsidence in shallow weakly consolidated sandstone- deeper stronger not..
      There is several causes to the subsidences of the the Mississippi alluvial fan, the mismanagement of sediment in the Missisippi river drainage– no delta build up. There is also natural compaction due to decanting of contained waters caused by overburden.
      What is overlooked is the subductive tectonic movement under.

      http://www.coastalenv.com/EffectofEarthquakeFaultMovementsandSubsidence.pdf


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      • sentinelle sentinelle

        Nice link Thad. Do you know if the sinkhole area is located in the Tepatate area and the uplands, rather than shoreline?

        Interesting paragraphs below describing subsidence from fluid removal without reinjection of equal amounts of fluids.
        Page 22:
        "Robert Morton and his colleagues have extended the fluid withdrawal theory to
        Terrebonne Parish in south Louisiana to explain high rates of modern land loss. Morton et al.
        (2003) have cited apparent correlations of changes in land loss rates – as measured from aerial
        photographs and subsidence rates measured from borings – with volumes of fluid extracted and
        pressure loss measured from production records, as evidence in support of the fluid withdrawal
        theory. The land loss rates accelerated and peaked in the mid-1960s at the same time that the oil
        field records show peak production and pressure loss.
        The soda straw theory has gained some acceptance from the coastal restoration
        community who fear that if the massive land submergence is due to natural causes and that the
        driving processes continue, the problem is hopeless and some of the proposed solutions are not
        worthy of the expenditure of tax dollars. If the theory posed by Morton et al. (2003) is correct,
        the apparent solution to south Louisiana’s subsidence and land loss is to either stop production of
        oil, gas and produced water or inject the produced water supplemented with surface water to
        replace the volume that is withdrawn."


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        • sentinelle sentinelle

          sorry about how the copy and paste turned out!


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        • Thad

          sentinelle.
          Guesstimate — the Napoleanville saltdome appears to be on or close to the gouge zone between the two. When looking at the maps look for "Donaldsonville" south of and on east end of 'Newcastle' fault line– that is close to Bayou Corne. Could be the reasons for the continuing tremors.
          Science show the constant small movement/tremors along a fault is normal, no concern as it show movement. It is when the tremors stop for a long period– indicating that the fault has "locked in" forces will build until it breaks loss generating a earthquake.


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  • razzz razzz

    Those accounting links for Bayer that include a listing of Texas Brine are just that, accounting. If Bayer invested or loaned monies, have a agreement or went into partnership with TB, etc., it would show up on an accounting sheet somewhere. Aside from that, agreements are entered into like for ex. TB makes a salt cavern for Bayer to store products in, and TB wants a clause in the contract saying that if Bayer stores something illegal or messes up the paperwork on a product being stored in its cavern, TB can't be sued for Bayer's actions.

    Then maybe while Bayer has product stored in a TB cavern and should the cavern fail then Bayer doesn't want to be held responsible (an indemnity clause).

    SHAW being taken over by Areva (if stockholders approve) seems to be a trend as the US chases companies out of the country by over taxation esp. leaving before next year's tax changes. A flat out business decision because anytime Congress votes, the tax structure could change. Companies can't plan ahead if they don't know what taxes will be 5 years from now let alone next month being in jeopardy of tax changes…but that is a whole other subject.


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    • FREEDOMROX

      Deductive reasoning and Vernon's Statutes there fore state that it would not show up as a Bayer Subsidiary, but as an Affilliate, if just for 'Indemnity Purposes'. Some othe relationship in play. Subsidiary is actually covered under Bayer's insurance policy.

      Try again.


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      • razzz razzz

        If your premise for your foundation is that Bayer owns Texas Brine then you are delusional and nothing you say can be relied upon except that a stopped clock is correct twice in 24 hours.

        Do you understand what I am saying to you FREEDOMROX?


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        • FREEDOMROX

          I do not know why you are being hostile. I never stated any such thing, but you brought up insurance and indemnity, and as a subsidiary, Texas Brine is entitled to their protection unless a clause is inserted to the contrary.
          Actually, I can honestly admit I have never seen a business relationship such as this, as in how "They are listed as a Fully Consolidated Subsidiaries of Bayer, but with 0 interest."
          I provided the link above so check into it at your leisure.

          "Can you understand the words coming out of my mouth?" Jackie Chan


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          • razzz razzz

            FREEDOMROX:

            That's the problem, I understand what I am saying and reading but you don't have the mental capacity to comprehend…make it up as you go along, it's pitiful and only leads to you being tolerated.

            Now do as you usually do and redirect the argument in some other direction.


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            • FREEDOMROX

              Not really. You are being an as-. I have stated I do not understand the relationship and you just keep on. If you would kindly explain, I will listen, but your blatant hostility is non-productive.


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            • FREEDOMROX

              So you Razzz, the ultimate knowledge keeper of corporate functions will not explain this business relationship to me? How were they classified as an LLC and a Subsidiary at the same time?
              Educate me, Enlightened One, so 'Grasshopper' may learn at your annointed feet…

              Waiting breathlessly.


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              • razzz razzz

                If I remember right, that was a German .pdf accounting document. Hardly meaningful here as a legal document.

                The question you should really be asking is if Bayer is the 'Parent' company of Texas Brine. Which all signs point to, no it is not.

                Joint ventures, partnerships, investment agreements, vendors, etc., all end up in some column on an accounting sheet. Doesn't mean there is collusion or nefarious activity go on. And it certainly wouldn't be obvious if it was under the table.

                Until you come up with more than just a hunch, the two are separate companies.


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                • FREEDOMROX

                  I never stated they were. You assumed so. I asked how Texas Brine could be an LLC, and also an Subsidiary at the same time? Period. You went off all funky and pissy. I just asked a question.

                  Normally when you for a partnership, it is documented, if not, then as 'an investment', or if connecting yourself, the listed as an 'affiliate', but never have I seen 'Fully Consolidated Subsidiaries of Bayer', and any remain as an LLC.
                  The question still stands, and you can berate me all you want, but I just want to know how. I read every line of the report Kali gave me, and no explanation is actually given, although I defer to her superior knowledge, because I am still left confused, since I owned my own LLC as well, and never as an LLC be anythingmore than an 'Affliliate' and maintain LLC status. If that's makes me an idiot, then so be it.


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                  • razzz razzz

                    I knew it would be all my fault but I will recover.

                    I am yet to see where TB is listed as an subsidiary of Bayer which would make Bayer the parent company. I have read that in the past, Bayer invested funds in TB but that was the extent of the relationship.

                    So, I qualify as sole owner of my concrete license but keep it inactive because I don't contract (don't use it). I could loan my Lic # to TB but that wouldn't make us one corporation. In fact it would hardly mean anything.


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                    • FREEDOMROX

                      No fault involved. Just could not understand the hostility. I could loan my own LLC license out as well, but it would have to be ok'd by my insurance for the liability issues first, or I would be totally liable, unless an "Indemnity Agreement" that absoved the Insurance Company existed first. It and it's approval, would still not qualify me as a Subsidiary, but as 'Managed Assests', and I would lose the rights to it being my own company, except as manager, if so enployed. Contracts are very specific. I only questioned the specifics based on my own experience.
                      I blame you for nothing. Peace Out.


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                  • razzz razzz

                    Try going back and read what these oil guys are saying and what was known at the time of the sink hole beginning, a nice refresher…

                    http://www.theoildrum.com/node/9407#comment-910710


                    Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      I do Razzz, and just posted a true reminder of the wealth of info in Nov. Shaw presentation over the Dec. one a few hours ago. It is a very good point though. Thanks.

                      Now, I ask another question of you. Have you read the Belgian Papers yet? What is your opinion in relation to Bayou Corne, sir?

                      If none, that's ok, but I feel we are getting so close to an answer now. Maybe not a good one, but…

                      If I could be at the meetings, I would travel there just to ask the right questions. Since I can't, I pray the residents that actually think we all aren't a bunch of jerks on ENE, to actually ask the right questions, now that we know the right ones to ask to get some action.

                      That is my most fervent prayer at this time.

                      I would quickly travel down to Bayou Corne for the next meeting if I only had a way, so that I could actually stand up for the residents and get some answers! Some Action! I know the questions, and I know most of their answers and would not let them get away with not addressing EVAC issues, nor Property Buyouts fair to all the remaining victims.

                      I am ashamed to say this, because their attorney(s) should be doing their job and fielding these questions!
                      Something is wrong, when they aren't there to actually ask any relevant questions.


                      Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Also Razzz, if this was an overcut at say 2250 ft. and it breached there, then would that not mean that the salt was that close at that depth and therefore Shaw's representations are utter crap?
                      So many ask why no Sonar….I ask the same. I would say they have the readings and have for a long time.


                      Report comment

                    • razzz razzz

                      This ENENews site leaves something to be desired when it comes to checking posts, didn't realize this thread is still active.

                      Waiting for the 3 test/observation wells results, no matter how long it takes, Then maybe a clearer picture of what is happening underground can be told. But you can see where some of the thinking is at by preparing to reroute the hiway. Somebody has a good hint of the real problems.

                      That Oil Drum link had the guys talking about a required 300' safety zone from any cavern void/wall to the perimeter or outside of a salt dome wall structure, they considered a 300' buffer a joke because of the unknowns and possible stratus layer and fissures that might mix in with the outside dome salt walls. A link to a failed Strategic Oil Reserve salt cavern was given as an example (same area and State?) to this sort of thing happening before (failed salt cavern).

                      Other than that I really have no clue to what they are trying to do. If they have to spend the rest of their lives pumping a cement patch down the wells, then so be it.


                      Report comment

                • FREEDOMROX

                  I work tirelessly for others, and do all I can do. Do you? If so, then why belittle me? I did ask an honest question. Does it make you feel so superior? Is it necessary to understanding?

                  And people wonder why I stay so confused…


                  Report comment

    • kalidances

      Bayer no longer is partnered with Texas Brine as subsidiary. That particular partnership ended in September 2011.
      Freedomrox you are in the right neighborhood but at the wrong house. Donations and consulting services are accounted for(and searched for by the IRS) very differently on ledger sheets than loans or smaller corporate business-related investments.
      It's only necessary to look at Bayer and Texas Brine's ended partnership to determine who knew what and when. Look for the corporations with whom they both currently sit on as board members, here and overseas. It would serve you better to look at Texas Brine's relationship with BP.
      A lot of big businesses have ties to oil, fracking, and nuclear storage. They stand to lose billions if something terrible happens at Bayou Corne.


      Report comment

      • FREEDOMROX

        Thank you Kali for the update info. I have looked but could not find where Bayer's and their relationship ended. If you have a link, I would appreciate it.
        I have stated many times that the good ol boy Houston network is all incestous and nepotistic, and I will follow that aspect as well. Not really that important to me though, since Texas Brine signed a contract stating it would be responsible for the four caverns and any problems that are caused by their use or operations back in 1982. I do take note that many, many lawsuits are showing up with Texas Brine and Occidental being the two defendants. One thing jumps out at me and I posted it in passing last night, and that is LeBlanc is sueing the two parties above for property damages. LeBlanc is close to Hensarling as well, but doesn't mean LeBlanc Properties does not own other parcels as well. I will be looking into that aspect as well. Something smells like rotten eggs again….


        Report comment

        • kalidances

          Here's the link:
          http://www.annualreport2011.bayer.com/

          Every year they have to publish a report about the changes that have been made. On the right hand side of the page you'll see a download center. The complete report is there. You need page 171 as that is where is show they dropped their interest in Texas Brine to zero.


          Report comment

          • FREEDOMROX

            Appreciated, but that is precisely what it states in the 2010 report. Zero.


            Report comment

            • kalidances

              Freedom read the rest of the report. Look at the final financials. Then you will see why 2010 is very different from 2011 regarding Texas Brine.

              Sigh…smdh.

              Goodnight all.


              Report comment

              • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

                I read the report, and on page 171 where they have a 0, they also and han *. If you look up what the * is for, it means that a SPE (Special Purpose Entity) was formed between Bayer and Texas Brine.


                Report comment

                • FREEDOMROX

                  Thank you so very mucn 'built'. That's what I wanted to know. Nicely done. I cannot always intuit these things. Been a real bummer last few days. Hope all is well with you and yours.


                  Report comment

                  • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

                    Real bummer here too… work has been insane, ugh… Hubby 9% and 100% blocked, surgery next Friday… When this is the lighter side of my life, you know things are haywire! I hope all is well with you Freedomrox!


                    Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Lord help. I will pray for your hubby and your nerves too, then!


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      Hi frox, please watch the evangelism.

                      There are other ways to help and show empathy beyond falling into religious platitudes. Thanks.


                      Report comment

                    • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

                      I appreciate the prayer, it's for me and my family, if you don't like it, please skip over the comment.. thanks.


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      I can understand you may appreciate it, but other cultures and atheists don't generally like to see spam.

                      So there is a growing need to counter religious spam in all it's forms.

                      For example, replace the word 'lord' with any other persons invisible friend and it can become an insult; 'in zuess we trust; may Allah protect you; etc' , depending on where you are from.

                      In an international forum and community many cultures co-exist. It's best to leave the dogmatics and evangelism out.

                      I understand you and others may not realize you're sprouting spam, so it may not be something you've come across before. But many in the world don't want to hear an ounce of it. Thanks.

                      Best wishes.


                      Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Hi, Richard. I could care less. I am a 'Deist', and I expressed a sentiment to a friend. If you don't like the channel, then change it, but don't attempt to impose your will on mine. It never works out well for the 'Pusher'. Get a life and attempt to actually 'live' with those around you. I know you are atheist, you holler it enough…but have I ever said a word to you?

                      Built, I wish you the very best and still pray you have a great holiday, and pray, all your troubles are solved next Friday.


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      Frox and built, you have both demonstrated the exact thing about religion that I reckon sucks. You think have a right to impose dogma onto the world. I'm telling you many in the world don't want to see an iota of the spam, not one single reference to your fantasy friends.

                      We see it as fiction and a we don't want to read it. It's simple. You need to respect others desire to not be exposed to any element of fantasy friend mythology.

                      Continue to argue with me if you wish, but you may not like some of my further responses when pushed.

                      Stop the religious spam, the world doesn't want to hear/read it.

                      This is a Public forum. There is no private conversations here. We can't choose to 'skip' a comment or conversation as it's in the stream of what we read.

                      Religious dogma must be stopped in the public domain, everywhere. It's assisted thinking, doesn't help learning.


                      Report comment

                    • VanneV anne

                      @Richard,
                      You post contains discussion of a banned topic.


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      Oh, and don't get me wrong on the prayers/good thoughts thing, there is obviously nothing wrong with that.

                      It's the 'lawd help' thing that really started this off for me.

                      My only problem with prayers is when they are used as an excuse for inaction. But best wishes are a good thing.


                      Report comment

                  • Ibuiltthis Ibuiltthis

                    Not a problem Kalindances. I couldn't believe when I saw it. Richard, If someone were preaching, that would be fine, however they were not. If other "cultures" don't want to read it, again, move past it and read another post. With that stated, I don't really care what you think spam is, but thanks for the info.


                    Report comment

                    • DisasterInterpretationDissorder DisasterInterpretationDissorder

                      Well said richard , i think what seems to be missing is the general understanding of the pattern's of how allowing dogma evolves in to religious dominated thoughtprocess in all interaction . And that those that do and are been vigilant about it , will alway's been percieved by some as jumping in too soon and therefore aggressive/in-tolerant/dominant etc.
                      Its not about the small references here and there used to express someones urges / hopes that something good/ better may happen to someone appreciated .
                      Those are not a problem in itself , its about the social dynamics/patterns and how they evolve from there again and again if left unchecked in a public place. Especially in a international forum where the majority is american (high % religion ) imo .
                      Peace all !


                      Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Obviously, none of you even knows what a 'Diest' is and just speak out of ignorance. Look up the 'Age of Reason' by Thomas Paine and cure some of that ignorance.
                      A book told me? lolol


                      Report comment

                    • richard richard

                      seasons greeting frox and all.

                      have you got the spelling right?

                      (not that i'm being a spell nazi, i'm bad enough myself ;) ).

                      it's just the way you've spelt that word, it's a city.

                      as for deism, i can relate to that angle. no dogma involved there :)

                      anyway .. hope you're and all a getting a break from the usual, and putting the proverbial feet up.

                      happy festivities, should you be inclined ;)


                      Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Ahh, ya got me pard'ner. 'I' before 'e', except after 'c'. Unfortunately, my fingers do not always follow those rules. I hope you have a fine holiday as well.


                      Report comment

                  • FREEDOMROX

                    Now that link explained it all, Kali, thx. Begs larger questions though, huh?


                    Report comment

      • Thad

        kalidances
        You brought it up so what is the connection between BP and TxBrn.
        Unless a company makes a direct profit from oil they are not an oi company. TxBrn on the non-brine side of their business make their profit from the storage of the oil product not from product stored. Same as anyother oil field service company they sell, furnish, perform a service and are paid a fee based on service provided.
        At one time the independent oil companies tight for cash tried to go to a "payment in kind" -shares in the well or company to pay service companies for service needed to drl the wells– Don't
        remember exactly what laws would be violated but the feds screamed "NO"
        Yes at present by default TxBrn is selling the recovered oil from the cavern and sinkhole but the profit of that sell goes to the owner of the mineral rights– not TxBrn.

        As far as partners w/ Tx Brn look who is included in the lawsuit–not Bayer AG, not any oil company– lawyers look for every pocket


        Report comment

        • FREEDOMROX

          Thought this was interesting as well.

          http://www.mbfirm.com/

          For more information about the current settlement or about the Bayou Corne Sinkhole litigation, contact one of our attorneys at the Law Office of Martzell and Bickford: (504) 581-9065


          Report comment

          • FREEDOMROX

            Hill et al v. Texas Brine Company, LLC
            http://dockets.justia.com/docket/louisiana/laedce/2:2012cv02354/151930/

            LEBLANC et al v. Texas Brine Company, LLC
            http://www.law360.com/cases/50255339e1a145183700435c

            LaBarre et al v. Occidental Chemical Company et al, Texas Brine LLC

            Defendants: Texas Brine Company, L.L.C. , Occidental Chemical Company, Miller Engineers & Associates, Inc., Adams Resources Exploration Corporation , Exxon Corporation, Browning Oil Company, Inc., Berry Petroleum Company, Louisiana Department of Natural Resources, Exxon Mobil Corporation and Mid-America Resources Corporation
            http://dockets.justia.com/docket/louisiana/laedce/2:2012cv02611/152268/

            Lots of pockets for sure. I take not, the first time I have heard Exxon involved, and Golden Gate claims they are partnered with a large Oil Co.
            Interesting.


            Report comment

            • FREEDOMROX

              Seems Texas Brine is hiding nothing when it comes to it's longevity at the Salt Dome. It seems they have had many other 'accidents' as well, and almost lost this very cavern in 1998. Back to that shortly.

              This case involved a brine pipeline and is highly illuminating.

              In 1965, Hugh Hawthorne purchased a tract of land in St. James Parish, Louisiana. Soon after buying the land, Hawthorne conveyed a servitude to defendant Texas Brine so that it could construct, operate, and maintain a pipeline (called the Oxy-Taft pipeline) on the property. The pipeline is currently operated by Texas Brine and owned by defendant Occidental pursuant to an operating agreement between the two. It is used to transport highly concentrated sodium chloride solution, or brine.

              A subsequent site assessment by the plaintiffs' experts showed that the brine had migrated both vertically and horizontally through the ground water, requiring extensive remediation. The pipeline was replaced in 1988.

              For the rest of this interesting tale, visit:
              https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/431/431.F3d.221.04-30137.html


              Report comment

              • FREEDOMROX

                When looking onto Google Scholar, I came across an interesting article from 1997.

                Geologic site characterization (GSC) principles derived from storage and mining projects in salt, with application to environmental surety

                "At Napoleonville shale layers were encountered in at least one brine cavern (Fig. 8), indicating
                that the salt edge margin probably had been penetrated and that inadequate buffer existed. A
                similar encounter with shale was noted at Bayou Choctaw in a brine cavern."

                I asked, which cavern? So I ran another search, and ran into this…

                "The map is a sketch representation Fig. 8 Conceptual diagram of westernmost cavern on
                Napoleonville dome, showing penetration of the salt stock into the overhang. Because of the
                fortuitous presence of shale sheath, this cavern was not lost but easily might have been…"

                Both from the same paper. Springer is a high dollar site. I will see if I can get the moolah together to get these reports, but the westernmost cavern is Oxy 3, followed by Oxy 9.

                http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs002540050115?LI=true

                Seems LDNR and Texas Brine knew they had problems with the integrity of the cavern or cavern(s)since 1997, at least!


                Report comment

        • kalidances

          Thad I mentioned it just to be helpful. I do not care about BP or Texas Brine. In my eyes they are both wholly corrupt. I was just suggesting that if someone wanted to know why Texas Brine had so much to lose that they would deliberately let Assumption Brine suffer, they should look at the bigger players.
          I only care about Assumption Parish being evacuated before the explosion or getting proper restitution after the explosion occurs. If you have no understanding of the nature of the relationships between power,nuke, and oil companies I have no desire to explain it to you.
          That is also the case if you think the feds are in any way honest or ethical dealing with big power, nuke, and oil companies in relation to environmental disasters.


          Report comment

          • Thad

            You can not fight them all at once -those directly involved and the others just because you don't like them—
            So what is wrong with keeping BP and other out ot this– Those that are not directly connected. It is crap like this that stirs stupid claims like BPs well is now blow-out in Bayou Corne– one crusade at a time
            And if you can't understand the concept of keepinbg the issue simple and clear without adding what can become confusing "I have no desire to explain it to you."


            Report comment

  • FREEDOMROX

    I also agree that that the Mississippi River anti-sediment incursion was the defining factor in coastal land loss.


    Report comment

  • sentinelle sentinelle

    subsidence->

    http://mygeologypage.ucdavis.edu/cowen/~GEL115/115CHXXsubsidence.html

    "For the Long Beach, the equation included damage to one of the major industrial, commercial, and strategic ports of the United States, >>>>>>but was balanced by an oilfield that was the largest ever exploited<<<<<<< in California. (When it produced its billionth barrel in 1964 the Wilmington oilfield became a "supergiant" field, the first in California, and the second in the United States.)"


    Report comment

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "So people are wondering — these are the kind of numbers we’re dealing with. This is not a small quantity of gas."

    Isn't that the truth.


    Report comment

    • FREEDOMROX

      Indeed it is recorded on all heli's…


      Report comment

    • FREEDOMROX

      This may help you understand what is going on beneath the ground, as it sure helped me a lot.
      Main Causes of Romanian Salt Cavern Collapse
      http://www.rmz-mg.com/letniki/rmz50/rmz50_0431-0434.pdf


      Report comment

      • 16Penny 16Penny

        Goes to show one thing real clear, It is past time to move residents out.

        "the production ceased on 05.03.1991, after an accident, when soil vibrations were recorded, similar to a small magnitude earthquake."

        Major collapse occurred in 2001

        Last sentence in the conclusion:

        "It is obvious that the "ecological bomb" from the Feild II in the Ocnele Mari area, is still active." Written in 2003

        Two years later. How long are you going to wait to see if you should move? 1 yr? 2? 3? fo . . .BOOM, too late.

        Read what happened with the cavern of brine? When the cavern collapsed it shot (max flow) 17 M^3 of brine per second.

        Off to look up the volume conversion ratio for liquid butane gas under pressure to gas at sea level.

        Worse case at Napoleonville; ??? M^3 of unknown gas shooting out of stinkhole that is unknownly connected to unknown number of failed unknown underground structures.

        When this large volume of settling gas finds a spark:

        UNKNOWN NUMBER DEAD

        :) Does that description remind anyone of an unknown well blowout?

        Headline Next day: We couldn't have known, nobody knew, not even those guys from Europe with their computer model doo-hicky.

        Jindal: What?? Bayou who? (not real Jindal Quote)


        Report comment

        • FREEDOMROX

          Well, believe it or not, you are understaying the true dangers here. Read this and see if you feel even safer, ok, sir?

          Fracture Development in Salt Dome Caprock, Hardin County, Texas
          http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/documents/2007/07113lacazette/


          Report comment

          • FREEDOMROX

            correction: "understating"


            Report comment

            • 16Penny 16Penny

              Please trust me Freedom, I do like what you do and that statement on an earlier post was a failed attempt at a great compliment.

              Having said that, have you ever thought about going into teaching? You assign a lot of reading (I am typing this with a smile)!

              Ok, looked it over. So the cap rock is made of layers of rock instead of a big solid flat stone layer like they portray. The article said that between the layers was bitumen which is a component of asphalt if I remember. I think this is a good thing. Having several thin layers will make it less susceptible to a flat or straight vertical fracture. The bitumen acts like a sealant I would expect, sealing small cracks.

              I agree that they should be looking inwards on the cap rock for fractures and gas vents. Seeing that the slab is a composite is good. It should resist breaking for a while and may even give warning with an initial lurch before it tilts very far. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there has been sharp tremors in the inward first 100 to 200 yards from the edge of the cap rock.
              IF that is the case then I do not expect it to fall in or anything. I am more worried about opening the salt to the aquifer.


              Report comment

              • FREEDOMROX

                Yes, sir. I do understand, and thank you for contributions. This is what we all must do for understanding.
                My point though, was that Shaw claims part of the caprock is now gone, non-existent, ka-blooie!
                Now how did that happen?
                So far, no viable explanation, and you are correct about bitumen, but hasn't saved one failed salt dome yet.


                Report comment

                • sentinelle sentinelle

                  Hi Freedom,
                  If you look at the "Conceptual Model of Current Situation", October or later, you can see the broken cap rock colored in gray lying under the sink hole. Where the cap rock is broken, it has sunk and the orange colored Mississippi Aquifier has dropped into the sunken area.

                  I think the caprock covered the overhang of salt prior to collapsing, or the salt would have been exposed to moist surface elements long ago.

                  I've mentioned before that I think this area is a serious problem for the salt dome as the erosion will be difficult if not impossible to stop if the cap rock continues to break away. It'd seem they'd have to build a dam of some sort to hold back and separate the aquifier and protect the aquifer, and build a cover to protect the salt. Is this even possible?


                  Report comment

                  • sentinelle sentinelle

                    Here's a quick link to an interesting blog to look at images – scroll down to look at the diagram I referred to in my last post.

                    http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189270&page=5


                    Report comment

                    • FREEDOMROX

                      Thanks. I knew I had seen this somewhere before! Emily at FluTrackers gets the credit. We used different search terms, but still it is the same paper. $40 bucks? 49.95 for me. That's some increase…
                      As for the caprock, that was my point… the amount of force to shear it off are enormous and it took nearly 18 mos. to achieve. Shaw cannot possibly want us to believe that salt that far west of the caprock was not already heavily deranged and degraded, is a very simplistic view to present, and likely false representation. What worries me is the amount of holes all across the caprock that has to have an effect upon it's integrity.


                      Report comment

                  • FREEDOMROX

                    I think I will sign up over there, now that I know who and where they are now. Thanks, sent. I flush my cache and cookies everyday, so if I don't bookmark, then I have to rely on memory…never a good thing to do.


                    Report comment

              • FREEDOMROX

                Also, I do teach. What most don't truly seem to get nowadays, is that no one can TELL you anything, because then you don't KNOW. Show them, and they learn on their own, and they will always KNOW.
                That is truly being a "Teacher".

                Also, please forgive me and my keyboard. It is old and doesn't even have letters I can read anymore. :)
                Never look anymore, and sometimes don't depress completely…sorry again.


                Report comment

    • FREEDOMROX

      Take a look at all of the Heli's today, Sunday, Dec. 23. Some kinda messed up displays, and it just about all of them as well.


      Report comment

  • FREEDOMROX

    BTW, Dutchsince and Idahopicker are off my christmas list, (Dutch never was on it), for super shoddy reporting from the source Sorcha Fall, aka David Booth is actually an russian computer programmer and american hoaxer. Either clinincally insane or paid disinfo agent, and a poor one at that. Additionally, IP has gone downwards in my opinion as well.
    Good catch. Bloggers have a hard enough time without this kind of silliness!
    FlyingCuttleFish had this to say on his blog; ". . . reposting HERE because Dutchsinse and Idahopicker are repeating this phoney story. It took less than 15 minutes to fact-check it. They are very lax. And this hoax-repeating is hurtful to crime victims who are used by Faal."
    I wholeheartedly agree!
    http://lasinkhole.wordpress.com/2012/12/22/sorcha-faal-hoax/


    Report comment

  • FREEDOMROX

    Watch IP's video there and you will see paranoia in action. It happens to all of us when we actually 'Wake Up', but this is just unreal….


    Report comment

  • kalidances

    And to Richard about the "religious sentiment" Two people in conversation were obviously wishing each other well. Just because their words had a religious undertone that hurt your delicate sensibilities doesn't mean that people have to stop supporting each other online.

    You need to ask yourself why you'd intervened in two people wishing each other well when you could have just skipped the "insult". I am insulted by atheists who use their personal issues with religion to act in deliberately malicious ways.

    At this stage of the game people can worship God, the devil, a rock, a toaster or any other damn thing they want. This world is about to be in flames because people were having petty arguments instead of monitoring the nuclear power plants in their countries.

    Why do you think you have the intense need to tell others how to express themselves spiritually during a crisis?

    I have the need to tell you about being disrespectful because you just deliberately tried to hurt someone already in pain.


    Report comment

    • FREEDOMROX

      Ummm. thanks kali…sorry I could understand what you were trying previously to inform me of, but Ibuiltthis did, and never shows frustration or annoyance. I think the world of her, and her skills as a researcher are becoming legendary. I never wanted any conflict, just a reminder that she is not alone in all of this. From what I can see, the whole area will be facing tornados Xmas day. This on top of what they are already going thru, plus the high rainfall amounts means this toxic sludge will not wait until spring to force 'Lake Oxy 3' to contaminate bayou after bayou.
      I fear for them all. I may not believe in a bible, but I do look to Nature's God to show a little mercy.
      Sorry if that offends any sensibilities…No, no…I'm not.


      Report comment

  • FREEDOMROX

    One Final Note: What is ENEnews about? Is it about diverse cultures interacting and becoming a closer society of minds? Or..is it about facts? What is this mind-numbing compulsion for some to impose conformity here? Many are non-conformists. Why the intoleration?

    Here's some quick facts personally.

    At the age of seven , I was fully self taught in astrophysics.

    At the age of nine, I submitted a 'white paper' to Cambridge..which later was used as the 'Theory of Super Massive Black Holes' in 1982. In 1976, I postulated an electrical perspective and described these as Z-Pinches in a Plasma environment, based upon my understanding of Hannes Alfvén's work in plasma physics. My work was stolen and perverted, so I turned my back on the so-called 'scientific community'.

    At the age of 11, I attempted to submit the 'Causal Theorum of Electro-Dynamics in Geologic Formations'. I off-handly dealt with my public education system, with A's, B's…really didn't care. I wanted to learn the engineering aspects, but no local teacher was to be found.

    At age 13, I found the absolute and wonderful world of 'girls'.

    Out of sight and mind for 25 years….hehehe

    My point is, is just where do we want to be now? Narrow minded and self serving? Perhaps we should all stop bickering over minor grievances, and work towards a true understanding of the processes involved, and possibly come up with solutions and work towards those lofty goals…or not.

    Just saying…


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Find bubbling source first

    "For years the people living around Lake Peigneur have cautioned state officials that the cause of bubbling in the lake needs to be determined before an expansion of natural gas storage caverns is allowed. The company operating the facility, Jefferson Island Storage Hub, has been involved in a long process seeking state approval to add more caverns.

    Recent events at Bayou Corne in nearby Assumption Parish, however, might give officials pause to check a little more thoroughly, which would be good for the residents and company."

    http://www.iberianet.com/opinion/editorials/find-bubbling-source-first/article_bf64d472-5047-11e2-ad83-001a4bcf887a.html

    The difference in the two sites..the presence of oil..in the Assumption Parish sinkhole.


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  • jec jec

    So between 6 and 14 years of straight venting to just remove the gas? 50 to 100 million cubic feet of gas, venting at 20,000 cubic feet a day, times 365 days..divided into 50 to 100 million..EQUALS 6 to 13 years of flaming and venting gases. Just the cost of this is huge. What about the "carbon" footprint? There's an environmental tax in the USA for that as well.


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  • ftlt

    Does anyone know if this is the useable amount of natuarl gas in cubic feet down there… Like the delivered to your house is… The Nat. Measurement standard amount compressed into a smaller area???

    """"50 to 100 million cubic feet of gas at formation pressure"""".. Think he or she means the above…

    Or is it compressed gas of 50,000 to 100,OOO million cubic feet at 50 PSI – a huge difference in the amount of gas there

    ****I did make a mistake above — It would represent about almost 2 days of national usage – if it is as I would assume it is, the 50,000 to 100,000 million CF at normal standard messurement pressures (left out 3 zeros – oups) Quite an error – sorry…

    But, still cubic feet is a lot smaller than the cubic meters that were tossed about for awhile… Again, a factor of 35 times greater of an amount


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