Published: June 6th, 2012 at 7:27 pm ET
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Dock that washed up on coast teems with Japanese sea life
Huge dock washed ashore on Oregon coast is debris from Japan’s tsunami
The Oregonian
Richard Read
June 06, 2012
Japanese officials have confirmed that a huge dock that washed ashore on the Oregon coast is debris from last year’s tsunami
[It originated] in Misawa, a northern Japanese city
[...]
The 66-foot-long structure — 7 feet tall and 19 feet wide — was first reported offshore Monday and made landfall late Tuesday or early Wednesday morning.
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Published: June 6th, 2012 at 7:27 pm ET
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sending...
Hope they have their Geiger counters out and ready!
Current links to radiation monitoring and debris tracking
http://realitycheck.no-ip.info/forum/index.php?topic=20.0
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re: " massive dock with Japanese lettering that washed ashore on Agate Beach is full of tiny sea creatures native to Japan, "
Yes–I hope they test these creatures for cesium contamination too.
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current Fukushima fallout forecasts … world-wide
http://realitycheck.no-ip.info/nnn.html
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I didn't hear or see any geigers on that interview.
Although I did notice the dripping nose and red face of the guy talking to the camera…
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Its only convenient that this is the home state of senator wydel.
At least we have one house representative that addressed the nation to the fukushima nuclear crisis / pandemic.
This agate, is the first building block to a long awaited awakening of the masses. Its truly too bad that the general population will undoubtedly be left in the dark, until the fat lady has sang and there is nothing but darkness left….
With this breaking news amongst our community here on enenews, We can only see more clearly that yet another stair has been surpassed by our slinky.
I should note:
That this particular crisis has always been this tragic.
However, it is now not only tragic; but 'unavoidable to ignore'…
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Wyden
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..and all the others
please, all.
make the call.
this effects us ALL
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
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Radiation Hitting the Streets of LA
http://blog.imva.info/world-affairs/radiation-hitting-streets-la
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XXe8K1fRqI&feature=player_embedded#t=0s
A March 6th test of a HEPA filter recorded radiation levels 668% or 6.68 times the normal background radiation levels. This test took place 43 days after initial tests and shows a 130% increase since January 22nd 2012. “The California Highway Patrol considers anything over three times background, 300% of background above, a trigger level to a hazardous materials situation,” reported the EnviroReporter.
Our last HEPA filter measurements January 22 produced some astonishing results. Doing a spot test on the Honeywell barrel-style filter and a Kenmore Plasmawave, we found radiation ~351% of normal background. The machines had been running for 42 days. The combined aggregate dust came in even hotter at 538% of normal background radiation at Radiation Station Santa Monica.
(cont) At source…
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thanks, very valuable info!
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Thx Tacoma…good links and info.
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Well, is it radioactive or not? I think most of the debris got carried out to sea did so before most of the high levels of radiation got to it. There may be some residual from soaking in it and rain, but it should not be like it just got off Fukashima land yesterday.
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I also think that the radioactive part of the debris will take appr. one more week to wash ashore. So everybody can relax ……
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Nope! I don't think so. Remember the dosing of the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft carrier. In those days the radiation was blowing in the direction that the tsunami debris was travelling.
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Yes, it seems we are becoming too frightened to mention the terms "geiger counter" and "radiation" in our news articles. And, of course, the 'low levels' we're getting must be so low-level that no government has the guts to publish figures showing us just how low-level these particles are or mention the R-word at all.
Take a look at the small circular currents near the east coast of Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuroshio_Current
A piece of debris near Fukushima could easily have been caught in a small circular current for days or weeks and then spun out into the main current that carries it all eastwards to Oregon and California.
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A major portion of the early radiation release was in the form of iodine which had a very short half-life. It would not show on meters now even if the exposure was huge. Much of the cesium probably blew over it as did the other lofted radioisotopes to fall farther east.
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They will need to remove much of the largest items or next winters storms could throw them further inland and smashed the crap out of them.
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I live a few hours drive inland from where this thing is.
I will be all of 70 or 80 minutes drive from it this weekend.
Looks like I need to make a trip to the beach!
I talked my girlfriend Raven in to a beach trip a few months ago with the agenda that it might not be long until the beach is not a place we would want to go due to debris and radioactivity levels.
I wanted us to be able to experience it all clear one last time, at a minimum.
Looks like I will now be motivated to make a trip to see this thing and take my Gieger counter with me.
Just goofy that these guys "just assumed" that all of the Japan organisms would be replaced on the way over.
I see no reason to support th4e latter idea, other than just gross assumption.
I will report back here on anything I find out, good or bad.
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hurrah fireguyjeff! rad monitors are the sh*t
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Thx fireguyjeff. I'll be looking for your information. Take good care of yourself and Raven. Yes! I used to love the beach. Oh well, just another reminder of how we are supposed to evolve.
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8 June 2012
Well, looks like they got to it already, so nothing to go check on now.
The scoured it seriously and then put torches to it.
This was the front page story in Oregon's largely distributed toilet paper they try to pass off as a "newspaper".
The irony is that potentially invasive ocean critters require immediate US govt attention attention and clean up effort, while there is ZERO effort to deal with the fallout from Fuku or Fuku itself.
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Yes, what an irony, FireGuyJeff.
Looks like they read you were coming to the beach and acted fast before you could get there with you Rad detector! ;-D LOL
But (sad to say) soon the amounts of debris washing up will be much greater than they will be able to handle so quickly and easily…That's when the citizen's radiation monitoring network will go to town, with tons of debris to test for rads.
Then we will have a chance to verify the findings of the "authorities."
So stay tuned and keep that Geiger handy, FireGuy! We're counting on you! 
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Just like that ship they sunk even though it has millions in salvage scrap steel value alone.
Radioactive, sink it or burn it, before proof can be established.
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I am certain that early on in this catastrophe that I read it was going to take 3 years (minimum) for the debris to reach USA shores.
Yet another estimate 'fail'.
As of Today:
453 DAYS or 1 year 2 months 26 days
since March 11, 2011
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=march+11%2C+2011
They are stating that the structure was tested for radiation and it was normal. Now, does 'normal' mean within 'legal' transportation of radioactive materials levels or normal as in same as local background levels. …or normal as in "It's only like an x-ray". ??? Would be good to know.. exactly!
I think we should see the actual test being done and/or the test results.
It would be nice if someone with a rad detector and a video cam were to actually go there and document this like it should be. Like the lame-stream media should do. If they can send guys to the front lines in Syria why can't they send someone with a geiger counter to the beach. Simple enough. Maybe then, they could take an EPA worker along to show them how it's done.
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Hi ChasAha
I also thought they said it would be 3 years minimum .
Great questions, would be interesting to know. Would like to see the test results.
Unfortunately, they haven't posted any of the other reports.
Feeling like we are left in the dark. Helloooo have they forgotten about us??
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A lot of early guesses estimated three years, but said faster floating objects would reach the west coast in one year:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374520/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-debris-floating-US-West-Coast.html
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@ ChasAha
I also recall reading it would be 3 years.
A piece of dock that is as long or longer than a semi-truck!! Really!! I thought this was going to be a bunch of smashed up wood and plastic. What else is coming?
What I don't understand is with all the government satellites how come they can give people a better idea of how much of this debris is going to wash up and where it is going to hit the shoreline? What a failure of government. You know they must have looked at it via satellite. How could they not have? What is the big secret? We know it is coming, why not give people a better heads up? I will be very interested in hearing how this all unfolds as it really starts to hit the beaches. I hope the government has a better plan or even just a plan on how to deal with this stuff.
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There is also a thing called the N-A-V-Y. Apparently they drive around on the water looking for things.
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4:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw
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Thanks Richard need the laugh.
Do they all dance like that in the Navy.
Think I might join up.
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Really? Maybe somebody should tell our government about them.
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@ ChasAha
The story I posted on this thread from ABC states the radiation check was negative.
Now if the Oregonian newspaper swapped "normal" with "negative", no big surprise.
Having had to deal with the Oregonian for 40+ years now, I have learned to never trust it for a straight story.
They have no hesitation to massively edit letters to the editor and change the entire context of what was submitted.
I have been to events that they have covered as a news story and have been consistently shocked about biased or clueless their version of what happened becomes.
So I am always deeply cynical when I come across anything they print.
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Perhaps they mean that the radiation level detected was " normal" for tsunami debris.
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Anytime someone uses something other than the actual radiation reading as shown on the meter, it is safe to assume that they are industry shills, plants, affiliates, or pro nukes.
Why would someone NOT give the actual meter reading when it is so easy?
The ONLY people who do this are the ones who have something to hide and motivations to keep everything secret.
The Art of Deception: The Cult of Nuclearists, Uranium Weapons and Fraudulent Science; via A Green Road Blog
http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/primer-in-art-of-deception-cult-of.html
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WHERE on the Ore. Coast is this thing? I haven't found that out yet.
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It is at a place called Agate Beach which is more or less due south west of Portland.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=8691514
"A radiation check of the dock came up negative, which was to be expected if the dock broke loose before the nuclear power plant accident triggered by the waves"
Nothing like no need for an education to call it journalism…..
"nuclear power plant accident triggered by the waves".
And my dog ate my home work.
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What I see is: No protective gear..No equipment..No idea what to do with it..No plan at all..
Are these people crazy taking a chance like that without gear on???
Is this another Gulf Disaster where the people who worked on the clean up got sick and the corporations/big wigs are still well and getting bigger profits???
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Looks like Manzanita, looking north.
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This doesn't make me rethink anything, this is just another thing that confirms, we are in trouble.
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apparently it's at Agate Beach, says the article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agate_Beach,_Oregon
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reading on, it had a beached whale in 1970.
"Oregon's Exploding Whale – 1970 KATU (original report)"
3:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBgThvB_IDQ
sick
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xdrfox … where are you?
archive and updates of mass animal die offs around the world
http://beforeitsnews.com/stories/in/0000000000000169
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Gotta get this off my chest ENE, xdrfox & stilljill were dismissed before the new rules were implemented. I dont know about the others. Consider. End of statement.
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Some folks deserve a second chance.
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Hi CB, from what I understood the new rules were implemented because of some behaviour leading to dismissal.
My take.
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Yes, but not the rule at the time.
ENENews leads the way here, a new technology and forum never before navigated.
Here is a collective conscious, a repository of intellectual debate, fact finding, philosophical human interaction.
The brain pickers here require their presents, at this collective intelligence forum.
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Standards high, we should move in a positive direction, keeping all our assets together.
Working through, with high failure items, and significant personnel issues here.
EXPECT THAT> Keep the team together, don't single out individuals, but share the consequences of their fruits together. Learning from mistakes as we go, not repeating them.
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Do you know if StillJill was actually banned?
According to her comments here: http://optimalprediction.com/wp/recent-health-issues/
it sounds like she chooses to not participate here.
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I can confirm that you are correct.
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@WildTurnip – thanks. I'm entertained by your find
que sera sera
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correction. i am not entertained by peoples' poor health or misfortune.. that's not what I meant. I certainly care that people maybe unwell.
but other elements put a smile on my face, tis all.
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http://beforeitsnews.com/stories/by/0000000000004882
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If the authorities don't shut the beaches down and fence them off soon, they will have blood on their hands. One gram of Plutonium can kill a million. This dock has been getting hammered by the worst of the worst for over a year.
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They did say, originally, that it would be three years until the debris hit the US. Surprise.
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I don't think it was a surprise i think it was a lie…it just not that difficult to calculate.
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The speed of the drift will depend on the height of the object; this was obviously catching a lot of wind the whole way. Smaller pieces of houses, etc., will take longer to get here. I actually don't think most of the debris will be more radioactive than the air we're getting from Fuku. In other words, it will be ambient radiation, as high as that is, not anything more.
I have a friend in Astoria who has yet to register anything more than background. It's odd that some places are getting such high readings, and others nothing, unless his machine is in error…
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But what about the nuclear explosion of reator 3?
Wouldn't that debris have cause more contamination to the area around the plant (which would have been the debris-probably out a couple miles) that then traversa the pacific?
I'm worried there might even be pieces of fuel rods floating across.
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many moons: Those little beach rocks that caught fire in a mother's pocket still bother me. They say it was potassium hitting the air. They are testing them at a lab. Hope they run a test with a geiger counter. Pieces of burnt fuel rods? Keep the kids off the beaches from now on?
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That's horrible philipupnorth.
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I wonder why they sank that fishing boat and risked the fuel oil in the water but let the dock come on shore.
When the USS Ronald Reagan got hit with radiation it retreated to the south where it went to get hosed down and decontaminated.
Maybe things floating lower in the water and getting hit with waves get the radiation washed off where things like that floating ship had areas far removed from the water and perhaps held onto their contamination …just trying to put this together….
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yeah. Makes sense.
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Well, how about the algae? How fast do the Pacific Algae reproduce? How resistant are they to radioactivity? If we get a major algae die-off, there goes 50+% of our oxygen supply. Radioactivity might kill it, or it might adapt, any radiological studies on algae? Probably the most important issue other than 3 and 4 collapsing facing us.
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live just a few blocks away – more on the story is here
http://www.newslincolncounty.com/?p=53166
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Since they are making a point of saying it is not radioactive it makes me wonder if this dock isn't an excellent "exhibit A" for the average Joe that checks out the news. I mean, surely we have nothing to fear if this massive dock carries no radiation, right? And doesn't this prove that the water is just fine? I wonder if THAT is why they let this come ashore: it sets some fears to rest for people who won't really question it. Just a thought. It's interesting marketing.
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http://www.agiweb.org/gap/legis112/nathazard_hearings.html My apologies if this was already posted.
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Without seeming overly provocative .. what source would this forum actually believe re radiation readings on anything including tsunami debris?
Any? None? Only independent citizens and their geigers?
Forgive .. but somewhere out there someone actually tells the truth and my mind spins sometimes reading here that every source of info or data is evil .. corrupt .. deceptive ..
If one user here volunteered to geiger the washed up dock and it came up negative for significant radiation would this forum actually put this discussion to rest?
I am very curious about a source mutually agreed upon that would be trusted for any data that would be deemed reliable?
Sincerely .. who would you believe?
I
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Hi irradiatedinbako
At this point, I would tend to believe more the readings of individuals. Anyone who doesn't have an agenda.
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Thanks WindorSolar .. guess I need to spend more time on the citizen rad readings pages here and elsewhere.
I have read that more of this tsunami stuff will show up on the west coast this winter. I would expect that the longer debris takes to get here the more likely it is to have picked up radiation contamination.
Sources say there is stil 1.5 tons of it out there; some of it will certainly show spiked readings. Real question is how much.
I know any contamination is bad .. but we are dealing with the fact .. we have contamination from Fuku .. a source somewhere between the extremes of end of the world; we are all gonna die and nothing to fear cover up would be more credible to me. I consider both those sides an agenda .. and meaning no personal offense to anyone here.
We are still dealing with so many unknowns.
If for example local communities on the west coast equipped police or firefighters (hazmat responders) w geigers would that be credible to you or is that still too much guvment (evil corrupt not to be trusted)?
Again .. trying hard not to be too provacative to anyone.
Thanks .. take care.
Bako
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Hi irradiatedinbako
Quote: If for example local communities on the west coast equipped police or firefighters (hazmat responders) w geigers would that be credible to you or is that still too much guvment (evil corrupt not to be trusted)?
I will always tell everyone to wear protective gear.
Look up to earlier statement, Quote to what I said, "What I see is: No protective gear..No equipment..No idea what to do with it..No plan at all..
Are these people crazy taking a chance like that without gear on???"
I have and also had family members working as officers and firefighters, they would tell the truth. Yes from what I have seen so far and the lack of information, I would rethink more over what "any" corporation/government would say, over a group of individuals taking radiation readings.
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Hi again windorsolar .. sorry .. you seem offended.
But you would agree that you would trust firefighters, hazmat, police officers as first responders w geigers to be credible.
Just formulating some suggestions I consider making to a few west coast politicians.
Thanks.
Bako
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Gotta make a correction here to my own post .. should say 1.5 **million** tons of tsunami debris .. pretty big typo .. :/
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Hi Irradiated, lets face it, it's hard to trust when we have been lied to constantly…you get use to thinking everything is a lie….we know they are lies because even TEPCO will confess that they didn't …tell the truth…so where does that leave us…Radiaoactivity is invisible…so we need someone to tell us where it is…who to believe…it becomes a problem….pushing all this aside we could just use our logic….
There is a huge nuclear problem down wind of us…it is releasing radioactivity…the wind and currents are blowing in our direction…it seems a long way away but before the accident these winds and currents took about 5 days to reach the west coast so I can guess that is still how long it takes and it is transporting radioactive material….I sure of that and anyone saying that isn't so is lying….
This gigantic problem will be a problem for the earth until it falls into the sun…so in other words NO, even if this dock is not radioactive it doesn't tell us anything about our problems.
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Hi Manymoons .. first we can agree (and I think all of us here do agree) that Tepco is not a credible source. We have every reason to distrust them.
I do hold some hope here that this month when the nationalization of the company by the Japanese govt forcing the old skanky company guardians to slink away is complete .. with retribution such as making them walk the plank and dive into sfp4 (oops slipped my own little rant in) .. or even no retribution except censure .. there will be more transparency. I know it's debatable but I am interested and have some optimism.
And yes .. I agree .. fuku is a huge radioactive nasty hell hole. I live west coast usa .. and today is the anniversary of my most precious Papa's death. His strong heart crapped out so fast after moving to this CA valley and Fukushitty that I cannot help but wonder ..
My dad tho himself .. and we talked nukes and Reagan arms buildup and obamocare (omg he hated this prez) .. would have told me I was a hippy nut .. lovingly. And I am his kid.
I respected the hell outta him .. and learned to always find the points we could agree on ..
And I am still alive and you are still alive .. perhaps there are still ways mankind can remediate, make the best of .. or at least go down fighting.
Take care .. peace.
Bako
(Miss you sooo much Papa in Heaven)
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Condolences to you and your family irradiatedinbako in losing your Dad.
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Thanks. Hardest thing I ever had to go through in my life was losing my Dad. Actually didn't think I was gonna make it thru it this year .. except it would have really pissed him off if I f'd up any worse than I have stumbling along this year. Miss him.
Hope you and yours are well.
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Hi Irradiated,
Sorry to hear about your loss, your Papa sounds a lot like mine.
You wrote,
"And I am still alive and you are still alive .. perhaps there are still ways mankind can remediate, make the best of .. or at least go down fighting."
I would appreciate any suggestions you have to offer!
My only suggestion is to boycott energy…that will take care of the need and perhaps slow down the need for nuclear.
It's not hard, I've been doing it for sometime..you choose a time when you normally use energy and then don't for 1 hour or 2 as long as you can…gets easier all the time.
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Thanks manymoons ..
.. then you had a great Dad as well.
Great reminder about conservation. Remember reading somewhere that the Japanese (during this hopefully first nuke free summer) were asked to turn off the TV as one of the biggest energy suckers.
Gathering up some #s and make some calls to some govt reps this afternoon.
Take care.
Bako
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Exactly many moons I agree.
We are lucky that this dock is not radioactive. Next time people please wear protective gear, you might not be so lucky next time.
This dock does not mean we are not getting a fallout here. There are toooo many Geiger Counters out there that is saying we are.
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From EXSKF http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2012/06/dock-from-fishing-port-in-aomori-japan.html
A starfish native to Japan was among the marine life still clinging to the structure after the long voyage, Havel said.
"This is tsunami debris, not just from Japan, but from the tsunami itself," Havel said.
John Chapman, a research scientist at Oregon State University's Hatfield Marine Science Center, said hundreds of millions of other organisms also hitchhiked across the ocean on the dock — some of which are invasive species never before seen on this part of the West Coast.
Among the organisms are a species of tiny crab that has run wild on the East Coast but not on the West, and a kind of algae that has hit southern California but not Oregon, Chapman said.
"This is a very clear threat," he said. "It's exactly like saying you threw a bowling ball into a China shop. It's going to break something. But will it be valuable or cheap glass. It's incredibly difficult to predict what will happen next."
A radiation check of the dock came up negative, which was to be expected if the dock broke loose before the nuclear power plant accident triggered by the waves, Havel said. The parks department was overseeing efforts to identify and remove the dock.
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@fireguyjeff,
Could you collect a sample of the seaweed clinging to the dock and refrigerate it? That way it could eventually be checked for radiation level in Bq/kg. Maybe Arnie Gundersen would help.
Please let us know the CPM reading you find on this dock. My background readings in this area last year was 12 CPM.
Check readings near ground as you approach the beach. Let us know what you find.
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How did they miss this one and yet get to sink that first fishing boat?
You think it's all over? It is now. All over the USA west coast anyway.
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Just shows how the multi-trillion dollar navy has a lot to learn. Couldn't find a floating dock, even though they knew it was coming!
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Maybe they created it…painted it and put little animals from Japan on it…then planted it in the water to say look folks no radiation on this thing so there is no need to waste your tax dollars testing anthing elsethat comes floating in.
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All is speculation. On the one hand, the dock was allowed to float through because it had no radioactive signature but the fishing vessel did and therefore was destroyed before landfall, despite having likely some fuel or other hazards aboard?? For me, I don't have any of the answers other than what comes off my geiger counter and tells me "Hey this is hot" and even then, the shills tell me not to worry it's just sunlight or anchovy paste or magic glue; that sitting in the back of a DC 9 at 42,000 feet gives me more exposure. Again, the difference between exposure and ingestion / internal contamination needs to be clarified; I've lived quite well and healtily with exposure for over sixty years. My internal contamination, however, that part that is killing me, is bio accumulative, and unknown. (My belly actually has a higher background reading than my living room…)
What is really sad is the microorganisms foreign to our shores are washing up here: there may be or may not be a danger besides any radiological danger to the debris. I wouldn't want to guess which is more deadly. If anyone goes to the shore, wear appropriate gear and decontaminate as if the shore were contaminated. Like the innocuous tar on the Atlantic beaches in the 60's, no one told us about dioxin poisoning. Ask the people formerly from Times Beach in Missouri.
Be careful, take meansurements, alert your local media and officials. Expect nothing from them.
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I totally agree with you..Well put!! Thank you
+++100000000000
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so it's the micro-organisms that are the big shocker. shocking, astonishing, history making, headlines, read all about it, talk shows, commentary. micro-organisms invade west coast on tsunami debris. not one single speck of radiation found, not a single bq/kg in the algae, nothing!
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Would a geiger counter check show us how much cesium is in that starfish (or inside the wood of the dock)? Would you not need a scintillating spectrometer to get the cesium content, and an autoradiograph to show hot particles?
"A radiation check came up negative, but an examination by a Hatfield Marine Science Center scientist revealed a starfish native to Japan, said Havel."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155565/Japanese-DOCK-80-feet-long-washes-ashore-Oregon-15-MONTHS-tragic-earthquake-tsunami.html#ixzz1x8Dmk9dz
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"Akihisa Sato, an engineer with Zeniya Kaiyo Service, the dock’s Tokyo-based manufacturer, said the docks were used for loading fish onto trucks."
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Dock+torn+from+shoreline+during+Japan+tsunami+washes+ashore+Oregon/6744447/story.html#ixzz1x8EyBwKf
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"A radiation check of the dock came up negative, which was to be expected if the dock broke loose before the nuclear power plant accident triggered by the waves, said Chris Havel, spokesman for the Oregon Department of Parks and Recreation, which is overseeing removal of the dock."
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Dock+torn+from+shoreline+during+Japan+tsunami+washes+ashore+Oregon/6744447/story.html#ixzz1x8F9Sl6f
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Hi Pu239
Quote: Would a geiger counter check show us how much cesium is in that starfish (or inside the wood of the dock)? Would you not need a scintillating spectrometer to get the cesium content, and an auto radiograph to show hot particles?
What a Good Question! I keep thinking a geiger counter tells all, and it doesn't. Please let us know if you ever find out.
Thank You
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the most logical thing to do at this point is to have a beach bon fire featuring the tsunami debris. a beachside incinerator of sorts. and of course all debri is now radioactive free ! the most basic radioligic precautions are completely irrelevent now! free at last!
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oh no they are scraping and burning
http://www.newportnewstimes.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&story_id=34147&page=72
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Hmmm… The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife is doing the work? I just read that Oregon has organized a group of 'volunteers' to scrape the dock.
http://www.wwmt.com/template/inews_wire/wires.national/3b455202-www.wwmt.com.shtml
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they're not even wearing paper masks, a plutonium stopping device, perhaps a mythical theatrical mascot could post on beaches about this simple particulate radionuclide debris field apparatus.
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The most affordable geiger counters only show alpha radiation, correct? Not beta and gamma. Those cost much, much more and the State of Oregon is not likely to have too many for their use. The assumption is that if the alpha results are negative, then there's o need to test for beta or gamma. Is this true? ALso, those doing the testing may be operating on the widely held fallacy that radiation spreads evenly. You would have to test a lot of the floating pier to make certain it is completely clean. But, we can assume that initial negative readings indicate that the pier isn't extremely "hot". Rains could deposit radiation onto the pier as it floated and they could have washed radiation off into the ocean as it travelled.
As for the Navy. They are too busy exploding the ear canals of whales with sonar war games to take notice of what looks to me like a rather small portion of a pier. Oregon beaches regularly get whole logs washed ashore from Japan. As well, the signature from this dock would have been as much foam and concrete as anything with the steel encased within. Easily ignored. So, one question becomes, what will the Navy, while they aren't killing whales and dolphins, be doing regarding the debris? Looking at every little piece or just going after anything metallic and easily identifiable?
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"The most affordable geiger counters only show alpha radiation, correct? Not beta and gamma."
No, you pay extra for one with ability to also detect alpha.
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GM tubes that detect alpha typically have a thin mica-covered window. They may use a pancake tube (bigger window diameter) to increase measurement sensitivity.
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I think Tsunami debris detection will be left up to the underfunded Coast Guard who has a very limited off shore range that they are responsible to cover. Objects will drift into that range and come ashore fairly quickly. I think that citizen monitoring will be very important. Those with geiger counters in Oregon? I hope you can get to the beaches now and again.
We do have NOAA in Newport, but, this probably isn't in their bailiwick. We also have the Mark Hatfield Marine Fisheries Research, and they will be all over the invasive species along with Oregon State University. But, the fact that nuclear power is no longer an Oregon form of energy, i'm not sure how equipped the State is for even modest monitoring beyond the stationary federal radiation monitoring detectors for nuclear detonation activity. These won't be catching the debris.
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The less sensitive the Geiger Counter, the less radiation it picks up, and the fewer types of radiation it will pick up.
If someone measured this thing with an old WWII meter and got no reading, who knows if the thing is even working properly?
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AGR – you are right – do not trust an old WWII gc – it will be guaranteed to not be working.
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So .. what kind of geiger should a responder (or citizen) have and what costs are they? How many geigers would it take for something like this dock? Could one person actually examine it reliably?
I don't mind doing some googling but haven't a clue where to start.
My concern that citizens will be able to test much first hand is that debris should be cordoned off to keep unprotected folks out of danger as suggested here already .. I know NOAA website warns against toxic and sharp stuff. They haven't said much about about radiation.
Wonder how many beach communities actually have a plan.
Great input on this thread. Would like to pick a few more ideas if possible before presenting some ideas to WC politicos.
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@irradiatedinbako – i use an Ekotect – it was $400 on ebay and it's from Russia.
sure, it's not the most accurate of GCs. But I am no specialist, nor do i have the budget for spending more. i'm also not under as much threat as you northern hemis.
at least with the Ekotect I can get some idea of the rad levels in my environment. By carrying it with me most everywhere I have become accustomed to it's range of scale. So when something out of the ordinary strikes it can be very obvious.
cutting to your answer, yes, I believe one person can get a reliable idea if an object is radioactive. it's not going to be totally scientific, but it'll be enough to know whether to run or not.
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Hi Richard .. many thanks! Good to hear from you again.
Bako
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and good to hear from you bako. i have seen your other posts, it's taken till now to cross paths again tho
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irradiatedinbako,
If you are thinking of purchasing a Geiger counter, or
have just purchased one here, is a free resource to help you.
This Basic Guide will provide you with information on how to protect your Geiger Counter from contamination, plus how get the best out of it.
The Free Geiger Counter Use Guide has been given another update with lots more useful info. Download it from here. If you have any suggestions or additions to improve the guide, please let me know. It is provided free as a resource for this community.
http://technologypals.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Using-a-Geiger-Counter-to-test-food-for-Radioactive-Contamination.pdf
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Thanks for the resource Vital1 .. rank newbie here and appreciate help getting started.
Take care.
Bako
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ROUGH DRAFT .. concerned citizens re radioactive tsunami debris. Make any suggestions you want. I will work on mailing list. All input welcome. Thanks.
We are a group of citizens concerned about Japan tsunami debris, expected to begin washing onshore to the West Coast of the United States and Canada with increasing frequency this winter.
We with due diligence believe that there are radiation concerns and health hazards and we seek assurances that local communities are equipped to deal with these hazards.
We would like to know what responders /agencies will be called to test debris sites for radiation and toxicity.
We expect fair open disclosure of radiation readings and what devices used to measure. A suggestion would be photographs, live videos of the geiger readings.
We would also expect to know that communities have protocol in place to dispose of and remediate any radioactive waste contamination or toxicity dangers.
We could be called upon as a volunteer source from our communities to help responders if necessary.
We … ?? (Suggestions here)
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You're right bako, get photos of the dosimeter with the 'object'.
here's an example of my dosimeter in use at the dentist
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg499/fukushima3dmap/dosimeter/dentist016.png
(just doing a clean and check).
also, from the debris model I saw, this could be going on for a decade or two. not just a few years.
last point – not all debris can/will be affected by radiation. there are several reasons that i think have been covered on enenews.
proximity, timing, drift are all factors that will create a wide variety of affected objects. imho.
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Thanks Richard .. that kind of pic would work for me.
Yes I know the debris will be coming onshore for years .. but I suspect it is the next wave that will attract the most public attention. And is most likely to show radiation spikes.
Honestly .. not worried about standing alone on this. Can easily change draft from we to I. Feel a calling on this. Small enough audience to be heard .. not expecting a miracle but maybe make a dent in awareness.
Phone booted me off .. *groan* again .. please google news re tsunami debris .. so have no links.
My best friend (and love of my life .. except Dad) who died 3 years ago was vehemtly antinuke (and just as vehemently anti gov libertarian) .. we lived in Tahoe at the time ..
During Reagan's arms buildup he started a peace movement .. and organized a candlelight vigile against nukes on one of the most busy corners of casino traffic ..
No one showed up. "What did you do?" I asked.
He laughed .. "I lit my candle and stood there alone. You would have done the same thing."
Hell no I thought at the time. But it is the first story I always tell about his inspiration to me.
So .. to DR ..
Take care. Peace.
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you're very fortunate to have had someone like that in your life.
mine feels very alone. I've never had a partner that understands my deeper environmental concerns. it blows me away that i haven't been able to find that comrade and soul mate.
you two were very lucky. me, i don't know how much longer i can cope with it all, doing it on my own. it's a very lonely, little trodden, path.
he's a great man, alone with his candle. i'm sad and upset now. but thank you for that insight.
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Richard .. No .. enough sadness for lifetimes here .. find hope please Richard. Put your heart in a better place. I know your ache and loneliness. Let's both find better place ..
When one stumbles let a friend lift him up .. carry him if needed.
Sending you a hug .. and take a break from doom n gloom .. appreciate the life (and pretty girls .. wink) still around you.
My best regards.
feel better soon ..
Bako
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thank bako. it's now friday night .. the weekend is just about to begin.. i'm going out rockin and singing
yeah, it's a bit of a rollercoaster ride sometimes… anyway, i do get inspiration from reading about you and yours (besides my empathy) … so in no time I'll be out pumping
later all, got a night out to get to
(and thank you again bako)
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Hey richard, a virtual hug from me as well!
I wish it would already be Friday night here…still a long day to go…
I'll email you later – take care.
p.S. Bako you're just lovely.
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BandB .. aw shucks <grin> .. you too.
Hugs.
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Richard ..
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My warmest regards to you. Your story touched my heart. I also lost someone who was the best and a great part of me. The world is filled with love of the people who are transformed. The love is eternal, their love remains for us and sustains us through this difficult path. We all leave through the same door no matter what awaits on the other side and in this we are together.
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Hugs to empathetic and kindred spirit in you Truth. Thanks.
Healing and blessings to you.
Bako
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Sorry irradiateinbaco. Hmm.
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I've noticed the radiation levels always seem to be very high in the Philadelphia and South NJ areas. With the oldest NPP, Oyster Creek, run by electricity company Exelon with the GE Mark 1 design, I am concerned with these high readings. There was an emergency shutdown 2 weeks ago. I am new to this site and wish to find out the best GC and process to monitor this area. All help is greatly appreciated.Also safest communication avenues.
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Hi Loveistheonlyrationalact
I recommend posting your concern on the radiation monitoring forum: "Post Your Radiation Monitoring….
People from many areas of the world post there.
Other networks are also linked there.
Have you checked the NRC unusual event page? Any unusual events are posted there; unfortunately, often posting is delayed for weeks.
sorry I cannot be of more help.
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Thanks majia, I'll check out the info for NRC and also re-post on the appropriate forum
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great idea irradiatedinbako sadly the truth however is for right now none of the agencies believe a problem exists. common word from all authorities is there is no threat from Fukushima it is all under control and things in Japan have returned to normal. the common person believes the ocean is containing the radioactive substances because they fall to the bottom, there may be some minor contamination by life forms that suck up the radioactive substances but as the scientist in CA said with the tuna, "large species are able to metabolize radioactive substances" as stupid a comment as one will ever read. the key is going to be educating the public – this group is light years ahead of the common person but re-read the comments above on cpm devices and it becomes clear even the well educated do not understand the dangers or how to actually detect if danger exists. the last thing the tourism promoters want portrayed on the news are groups of properly attired hazmat teams patrolling the beaches, so until something lands on the beach and the masses going to see the wonders start dropping dead there is little hope to convince authorities, that is unless a successful education program gets implemented – otherwise it is like sending out volunteers to help control a major gas leak by giving them carbide lanterns and telling them, trust me there is no danger. FYI, just 60 miles east in Corvallis OSU proudly boasts of their nuclear reactor on campus. So it should be clear where OS…
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Thanks Papacares .. don't mind standing alone on this and appreciate your feedback.
Even if I could nudge a little more awareness education or info needed that'd be ok. Not expecting to move mountains here.
If it does nothing .. well I tried and followed a leading on my heart.
You only fail if you give up or quit. Tell that to my students all the time.
Thanks for the input.
Bako
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I graduated in Elec and Comp Engineering in 1981 from OSU.
I knew guys who worked with that reactor.
My dorm was all of a 5 minute walk from it.
The security was as much as ZERO.
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bako – u r not alone on this great idea – if you work up a plan and way to implement it that is wonderful – a journey of 5000 miles begins with but one step – it will be those who are of like mind as you that will lead the way when the magnitude of this is finally realized. the followup article to this posted from the Japan news says that Oregon has budgeted less than 150,000 dollars
for the Tsunami debris beach cleanup – amazing – just this one event will take more than that unless a savy skipper can come up with a plan to remove it – however permits to park it will probably be cost prohibitive if even an option – As majia stated lets get this up on the Radiation Monitoring Forum – go bako go
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Much appreciated encouragement and info papacares.
Best regards back ..
Bako
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dock at agate beach oregon is now scraped burned and buried
did anyone get to monitor for radiation? what does negative radiation mean?
http://www.newportnewstimes.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&page=72&story_id=34204
also report with video
http://www.newslincolncounty.com/?p=53265
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note that they stated that the test "readings/results" were negative, meaning none found, or none detected.
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the only way to detect nothing when dealing with rads is to not measure/check.
that is, there is always a value to be read (and it's never a negative). so unless someone quotes an exact number (hopefully with pics) they are being subjective and it's not credible.
we must ask for a value. nothing else is valid (or worth mentioning).
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