Japan Gov’t Expert: Nuclear fuel continued melting long after injecting sea water into Fukushima reactors — Extended release time caused ‘massive’ radioactive fallout — Reactor heat ‘surged’ when coolant was added — Officials admit just 3% of water pumped in made it to reactors (VIDEO)

Published: January 30th, 2015 at 8:08 pm ET
By

691 comments


NHK, partial transcript, Jan 29, 2015 (emphasis added): New Findings on Fallout

At 0:15 – Experts are still trying to grasp all the details of the [Fukushima] disaster. They have made new discoveries about the radioactive substances released from the reactors.

At 0:35 – On Mar 13, 2011, a U.S. aircraft carrier deployed off Northeastern Japan detected an increase in the level of radiation in the atmosphere. The crew kept a running record of the data.

At 1:00 Up until now, people looking into the accident had focused on the 4 days immediately after the disaster. That’s because they thought the bulk of radioactive substances was released during that period. But the data analyzed by the researchers suggests something different — only 25% of the radioactive substances drifted during the first 4 days [and] the remaining 75% spread over the next 2 weeks. We analyzed why this happened.

At 1:50 in — Fire engines [tried] to spray water into the reactors to keep them from melting down. The fire engines pumped out 30 tons of water every hour, but an in house investigation by the plants operator shows only about 1 ton per hour reached the targets… We conducted an experiment to see if this contributed to the massive release of radioactive fallout… [Zirconium was] heated to 1,200°C, the estimated temperature inside the reactors when the accident happened [Nuclear Engineer: Temps were “2,800°C within 3 to 4 hours of loss of cooling power”]… The water from the fire engines [was added and the] temperature of the metal quickly began to climb — in 2 minutes, it surged by 78°C [86°F/minute]. Experts suspect this is why large amounts of radioactive substances escaped over an extended time.

At 3:00 Masanori Naitoh, director of Institute for Applied Energy (a foundation authorized by Japan’s Ministry of International Trade and Industry): “Fuel keeps melting slowly as zirconium generates a relatively large amount of heat. The metal remained hot for some time. This means radioactive materials will be released for a longer time.”… The experiment shows that the water used to prevent the meltdowns may have actually sustained them. The experts say the the results show that radioactive substances kept leaking out and spreading into the atmosphere.

At 4:00 – ‘Why wasn’t the fallout discovered until now?‘ [Investigations have] tried to figure out why no one was able to control the situation. They focused on the 4 or 5 days after the disaster when Tepco failed to prevent the reactors from melting…  No one’s been able to get close enough to determine what’s happening inside. It’s possible there still may be more data to analyze about radioactive substances released from the plant. This is why experts believe it’ll take several decades to get a complete picture of what happened. In the mean time, everyone needs to keep in mind that no nuclear plant is perfectly safe. Members of the media need to  keep watching the situation and report on future developments as the happen.

Watch the broadcast here

Published: January 30th, 2015 at 8:08 pm ET
By

691 comments

Related Posts

  1. Radioactive cesium levels “never seen before” at Fukushima — New record as amount in groundwater nearly doubles in 24 hours — Officials admit ‘may be new leak’ — IAEA urges ‘resumption’ of dumping contaminated water in ocean; ‘All options’ need to be on table (VIDEO) February 14, 2014
  2. Japan TV ‘News Flash’: Officials fear melted reactor fuel is now exposed at Fukushima — Tepco: We don’t know at this point if fuel is uncovered — Large drop in water level — Experts ‘struggling’ to find condition of nuclear cores, nothing is known for all 3 reactors (VIDEO) June 10, 2014
  3. ‘Absolute Shock’: Nuclear waste on roof of Fukushima reactor flowing directly in ocean — Officials kept secret for past year & did nothing to stop it — Coming from highly radioactive debris on top of Unit 2; Gundersen: Reactor pressures got so high “it blew top off” — Amount of leakage ‘unknown’ — “Fallout far from over… International fury rising” (VIDEO) February 25, 2015
  4. Report: Tepco now dumping contaminated water from Fukushima plant into ocean — 200 tons of radioactive groundwater “pumped out” May 9, 2013
  5. NHK: Officials admit it may be impossible to stop leaking at Fukushima reactors — Will be investigating ‘bottom of containment vessels’ for holes — Gov’t asking engineers from outside Japan for help with melted fuel (VIDEOS) April 30, 2014

691 comments to Japan Gov’t Expert: Nuclear fuel continued melting long after injecting sea water into Fukushima reactors — Extended release time caused ‘massive’ radioactive fallout — Reactor heat ‘surged’ when coolant was added — Officials admit just 3% of water pumped in made it to reactors (VIDEO)

  • Gentle Giant Gentle Giant

    Love your work Michael.TY. Could it be stray spent fuel rods going fission which are causing these anomalous spikes? Or are the coria finding their way down through more fissionable materials in the Earth's crust while on the way to proving or disproving the Hollow Earth Theory? The nucleo-apes have already proven beyond a doubt the theory that their skulls are hollow.

    • GOM GOM

      Maybe the Earth is hollow to a certain depth, and/or in certain places. A "transition" space..
      Scientists scanning deep Earth found a huge reservoir of water the size of the Arctic under Asia. This body of water has been found in the deep mantle.
      And, right under our feet, miles down, is a vast Ocean. This is evidence of a whole-Earth water cycle that would explain the presence of our Oceans.
      And, how about a water saturated piece of a mineral called Ringwoodite? The only sample on planet Earth, coughed up from a Braziian volcano 400 miles below the surface.
      Phys.org or Livescience has fascinating recent data.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Jamiroquai – When You Gonna Learn (Lyrics) HD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLppVSb9OKs

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      "No fish left in the sea …."

      Yeah, when it's global MASS INSANITY out there.

      Reminds me a lot of the old Tower of Power music (funk, jazz, with horns, similar vocals), but with a more powerful social message. Nice.

  • We Not They Finally

    "Why wasn’t the fallout discovered until now?‘ [Investigations have] tried to figure out why no one was able to control the situation."

    One actually has to wonder to what degree NHK is trying to not violate the Japanese secrecy law by being too blatant. Like it doesn't take a master's degree in logic to see that all one had to do was to MEASURE, to so-called "discover" the fallout; that the "no one" who was able to control the situation has been TEPCO!; and that putting all this in the past tense is completely disingenuous, since no one is saying it ever stopped!

    It's just one step towards saying, "They wouldn't even tell us what they measured, they just did nothing to stop it, and …..here we are." Then there is the whole "it will take several decades [to finally confirm that we have been fatally nuked.]" Vut the newscasters have to be totally clear that that is both ridiculous, and insulting to the viewer.

  • West Aussie West Aussie

    I like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2aSpaRu2Fk it shows just what our governments were/are capable of doing to cover-up the effects of radiation.
    It sickens me to the core of my being.
    I will not forgive.
    I will not forget.
    I am not anonymous.

    • Ya West, how best to apply our time to effect a change?

      Waiting for a tipping point seems like whistling past the graveyard.

      • West Aussie West Aussie

        Hi, stock. If you read my latest blog you may realize that I have reached mine. I've only recently been able to put all the pieces together and the anger at what I've realized is still fresh and seething.
        I talk about being a patsy, and to apply it to this situation, I will say, look at how many people out there are prepared to swallow the BS concerning 'nuclear safety' and say nothing against nuclear power. Many will, in a group setting, demonize those who stand against this poisonous, genocidal, industrial complex.
        It terrifies me to think that my life is not worth a jot as a civilian when we can be poisoned while being lied to at the same time.
        Makes us all patsies.

    • PlowboyGrownUp

      WAussi,that video is a summary of the insanity of nuclear arms, and the summary at the end tells "nuclear arms were never an act of God".

  • It is interesting to review some of the early reporting of Fukushima

    here is a good one I found while working on a Ness debunk which I shall publish shortly

    In an early attempt to refill the vital pools with water Thursday, the Japan Self Defense Forces (JSDF) dispatched a cargo helicopter—specially outfitted with lead plates to help shield crewmembers from direct radiation—to drop seawater on the plant's reactor No. 3. The unit houses MOX (mixed oxide) fuel, which can melt at lower temperatures and could release some of its plutonium, which has a half-life of 24,000 years.

    Later that day, the country's National Police Agency attempted to use fire trucks to pump water into No. 3's spent-fuel pools, but owing to high radiation levels, operators were not able to get close enough. Five, more robust pump trucks, sent later by the JSDF were able to move in close enough for 24 minutes to inject some 30 tons of water into the low pools. As of 9:30 P.M. local time, the "effect of this operation [was] still under evaluation," the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum (JAIF) reported.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nuclear-fuel-fukushima/

  • Jebus Jebus

    I think that it is fascinating when the "alpha's" drop in with "my theory" on the "remediation" of this 1423 day mega disaster, showing everyone their "superior prowess" with "math" that no one of "lessor caliber" will understand, while subtly dismissing the truth of the matter, and all they can come up with is, "yep, we gotta dig it up".

    If it wasn't such a seriously fatal, life snuffing issue, it would be funny…

    So therefore, I propose the start of my Fukushima remediation solution.

    We assemble a crack team of ten thousand alpha nuclear physicists, beta health physicists, gamma nuclear engineers, and a few CEO's of nuclear corporations, for good measure, and we send them in to get to work, digging, slicing, dicing, and carrying out those coriums.

    Oh ya, were gonna need ten thousand shovels and some tyvec suits…

    Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it…

  • I finally found an old video that had been "disappeared" and now reappears with the title of Borax – Safety Experiment on a Boiling Water Reactor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WfNzJVxVz4 At 14 minutes in, they run a test on the reactor using K=4 with expected results, of blowing the reactor up, and jettisoning the fuel into the air. Yep, back in the 1950's they did this stuff as sanctioned government research in the open air.

    http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/p/videos-moderated-prompt-criticality.html

  • The reason that MOX fuel is so dangerous is because it can blow up in a nuclear criticality.

    Let me lay it out as simply as possible.

    After Fukushima, the EPA released air sampling data from Saipan, Guam, Hawaii, California and more. If you take the density of uranium in those samples, and multiply it by the estimated volume of air across the Pacific, you come up with something in the range of 200,000 pounds of uranium more than "background"

    The only way that Fukushima could have "launched" that much uranium was if the explosion came from within the vessel holding the uranium. A hydrogen explosion alone could not have launched all that uranium.

    Here is the EPA data and calculations
    http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/2012/03/uranium-and-plutonium-launched-into.html

    Here is the proof of the moderated prompt criticality. This is a massive release of heat which causes nuclear bomb of expanding steam
    http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/2013/12/fukushima-was-nuclear-explosion-here-is.html

  • http://www.abomb1.org/accident/critical.html

    Wow, looks like all of "our" national labs have had multiple serious accidents. The asshat Eggheads that be

  • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

    John Pilger – The Truth Game

    The worldwide propaganda surrounding the nuclear arms race is scrutinized.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2aSpaRu2Fk

    (as usual with time consuming video's , i have not finished yet , but i'm at 18min now and i'm sure it deserves to be posted on ENE..)

  • Bungalow Phil Bungalow Phil

    After reading many of the posts on this thread I realize there has been no reference to the control rods. I wonder if there is or has been a discussion that I may have missed. Anyone can point me to that I would like to read more.

  • rogerthat

    https://ngwa.confex.com/ngwa/2015gws/webprogram/Paper10206.html

    Abstract: A Sitewide Approach to Clean up the Groundwater at the Hanford Nuclear Facility, Washington State (2015 Groundwater Summit, March 16-18, San Antonio, Texas)

  • rogerthat

    http://www.nukewatch.org/watchblog/

    Questions for the DOE FY 2016 Nuclear Weapons and Cleanup Budget Request

    The Administration releases its Congressional Budget Request this Monday, February 2, 2015.

    Questions for the U.S. Department of Energy FY 2016 Nuclear Weapons and Cleanup Budget Request
    From
    Alliance for Nuclear Accountability
    A national network of organizations working to address issues of nuclear weapons production and waste cleanup

    The US nuclear weapons budget continues to spiral out of control. Look for double-digit increases in Department of Energy (DOE) weapons activities.

    Core nonproliferation programs will be cut because of funding for mixed-oxide fuel.

    Cleanup of radioactive and toxic pollution from weapons research, testing, production and waste disposal will fall further behind. The DOE budget for FY 2016 will illuminate the Obama Administration’s misplaced nuclear priorities.

    The Alliance for Nuclear Accountability (ANA), a 28-year-old network of groups from communities downwind and downstream of U.S. nuclear sites, will be looking at the following issues. For details, contact the ANA leaders listed at the end of this Advisory…

    – This is excellent stuff, imho

  • rogerthat

    http://www.comoxvalleyrecord.com/opinion/289830911.html

    Fletcher column prompts responses from across the province
    Jan 26, 2015
    Dear editor,
    Re: U.S. ripping us off on water (Jan. 13)
    Not mentioned in Tom Fletcher’s article is the ongoing leaching of radioactive waste from the Hanford nuclear weapons site into the Columbia River, which can drift north into B.C. fish-bearing waters. This is public knowledge in the U.S., but not well known to the B.C. public.

    Hanford is the most contaminated site in the U.S. and the most expensive toxic site to clean up, even more so than Love Canal.

    It was the Second World War’s largest secret site for concentrating radioactive material for the Hiroshima bomb.

    PBS had a recent program on how sick the workers are still getting due to exposure while cleaning up this site.

    In 1995, some of the 45,000 scientists and engineers Ottawa laid off were relocated to Canadian universities as adjunct and associate professors. However, the directorates, such as Inland Waters from 1970 to 1990, which oversaw national standards for water quality and hydrology, were closed.

    So the fragmented remains of Canadian research survive at our universities and the ‘national’ health and safety standards for humans, fish, animals, etc. downloaded or extinguished since 1995, especially since 2001. Hanford is the worst case for our salmon, animals and humans.

    After 70 years, Hanford is still affecting Pacific Northwest fish regardless of…

  • rogerthat

    http://hanfordsentinel.com/news/national/cost-pressure-intensifies-for-southern-co-nuclear-plant/article_1a0729ce-c421-54ab-86af-3d4c9bf70103.html

    Jan 30, 2015
    ATLANTA (AP) — The delays and cost overruns are piling up for a new plant in Georgia that was supposed to prove nuclear energy can be built affordably.

    Instead, the companies building first-of-their-kind reactors at Plant Vogtle expect they will need an extra three years to finish construction. The plant's owners and builders are fighting over who should pay for more than $1 billion in unexpected construction expenses — a figure that could easily grow.

    Those eye-popping sums do not include the extra borrowing and inflation costs of the owners. At the end of the day, utility customers will end up paying most of the bill. A sister project in South Carolina owned by SCANA Corp. and Santee Cooper has run into similar delays and cost pressures.

    Meanwhile, natural gas prices remain so low that regulators in Georgia say building a nuclear plant would not make financial sense if a utility was starting from scratch.

    "When you start adding it all up, the numbers are getting very big," said Sameer Rathod, an analyst at Macquarie Securities Group. "Who in their right mind would want to build a nuclear plant?"

    The latest snag was disclosed Thursday, before Southern Co. announces its earnings next week. …

  • rogerthat

    http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/lateststatenews/2802262-8/recordings-of-people-who-built-hanford-available-to

    Recordings of people who built Hanford available to public
    JANUARY 31, 2015

    Annette Cary
    Tri-City Herald

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Great stuff and remember that there is not one thing that moves on this planet that is not corrupt
    and/or a scam..look around. It's everywhere.. 🙁

  • Jebus Jebus

    Arnie weighs in again…

    Nuclear Engineer Asks How Could Five Barriers Fail at Fukushima
    Sunday, February 1, 2015

    Fairewinds Video

    Containment failed like dominoes…

    http://www.huntingtonnews.net/105689

    • razzz razzz

      I see Arnie goes with some semi-official report. He obfuscates when he does that. One would think Daiichi survived the Great Quake unscathed. Couldn't be further from the truth. First thing they lost was containment as plumbing was damaged during the quake allowing the containments to leak. Unit 1 was well into meltdown mode and steaming away before the tsunami arrived an hour or so later after the quake did its damage to the Units.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    No worries.. all is fine! 🙂 Only 589,384 will die from cancer this year. Yipee!

    Did they back out the 60,000,000 people that are not suppose to be here in the U.S.? Love statistics..
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-cancer-rates-down-22percent-over-20-years/ar-AA8RUYM
    http://www.cancer.org/cancer/news/news/facts-figures-report-cancer-deaths-avoided-in-2-decades

  • @code, i am uncertain whether NEss is considering Heisenberg in its theories….

    but it does look ness cut the cheese and stunk this place up, lol

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      stock, I tried to give Ness the benefit of the doubt…from my humble layman's perspective, and see if there was anything substantive. My conclusion is this; Her theory is not going to be understood except perhaps as a rigorous mathematical treatise, and the ones who could understand wont agree in the main. If I read/recall correctly, the resistance was such she was afraid for her life! Maybe she would get a more satisfactory response on math/physics forums.

      Actually it points to an interesting thing; Academia is in fact full of people with different ideas or half truths. These were students struggling to "get it" from teachers who themselves were struggling to understand. Just ask some aerodynamicists what keeps airplanes up. Its astounding that there are differences of opinion and argument, despite 747s flying.

  • Ness Ness

    I'm not an academic in that sense Code. Our system of education is different; university level education is divided in practical and theorethical (the practical one more valued by business and industry) and I needed to take care of my son so i took the practical road to get a good job as fast as i could. But i loved the science so i continued for a year at univ, right after finishing the practical, an education that leads to a bachelor degree. I have 2, 1 for math and 1 for pedagogics (old style, much better).

    I could not do a housekeeping+child, a job, a study and sleep all at once so i gave up univ after a year. It is a suffocating environment.

    New insights are considered threats. I am choosing this way because everybody can read it or ignore it but it is in the public domain all the same. And possibly some who read can use it. This theory has been known for 100 years. And is very threatening to a certain type of fraudster posing as an academic: all those that make a living out of selling people and governments the weirdest tales (BigBangs) while keeping the truth of the matter a secret, elite-only.

    That is also a reason to post it here, so the public knows it exists but kept secret, and what its nature is. The rest of the non-elite scientists cope with a broken model as best as they can. The new sound/heat cannons are designed using this model – and so are these 'haarps'. Deliberately caused ignorance is used against people as a weapon.

    • Ness Ness

      It's 100 years old, and that is also the reason writing it down is useless. If i do and publish the world certainly won't see it. These people kill for much less and they have their jobs, their prestige and their crimes to conceal – corrupt scientists are just a small part of this very well organized crime syndicate.

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    The sequence of events at Fukushima has now become clear.
    During the first week or two following 3/11/2011, ENEnewsers calculated that corium from 3 melted nuclear cores would melt through the concrete and steel of containment vessels, plus the base mat, within 7 days.
    I recall that the temperature was estimated to be 2,400C, but I may be mistaken in my recollection.
    If 2,800C was the actual temperature within the corium, it is possible for the meltout to have proceeded at a faster rate than calculated on ENEnews, resulting in a melt-through in only 4 days, rather than 7 days.

    So, we have corium in the mudrock, underneath Units1-3, in as little as 4 days following 3/11.
    Since an underground river flows under the ground at FDNPP, sump pumps were required to keep torus basements, and generator building basements (where backup generators are located) dry.
    Without power, these basements would have soon flooded even without the earthquakes and tsunami.

    So, the coria were surrounded by groundwater from the moment of melt-through.
    Groundwater has been washing nuclear fuel debris into the Pacific Ocean from day 4 on.

    "The experiment shows that the water used to prevent the meltdowns may have actually sustained them."

    Where are those missing nuclear cores, TEPCO?

  • What is curious is that the 4 reactors at Fuku melted down and blew up in the sequence of their numbering.

    Just saying, what are the odds of that?

    • PlowboyGrownUp

      Uh, are (were) all the reactors hooked together in some mechanical or electrical manner?
      Other than that, in little known circles, 1+1 equals two ones, not 2 🙂

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      Reactor 4 suffered a melt-out of an open cask of plutonium fuel from the equipment pool, according to ENEnewser PattieB. She had direct contact with somebody at the plant. Since use of MOX and plutonium fuel was not approved by the government at that time for Unit4, and since they were loading the fuel anyway, TEPCO remained mum about Unit4. The plutonium burned, and melted out of Unit4 from the floor below the equipment pool. As seen in video shot from Unit3 crane. This was probably what dewatered the reactor and SFP4.

      "Musta bin blowed up by hydrogen feed through the vent pipes from Unit3."

      TEPCO is Wrong.

      Reactor4 was open on 3/11, being loaded with new MOX fuel, seen in photos of SFP4, and plutonium fuel from the cask in the equipment pool. There are videos of Containment4, which was demolished when Unit4 went up, that show that Reactor4 blew up and out. I'll post a link of Containment4 video below, but I'll have to look it up first.

      This is all purely conjecture at this point. 😉

      • TEPCO is always right, while living in their own little bubble of faux pro nuclear hormesis reality. In their world, nothing ever goes wrong, and nuclear anything is always perfect. 3/11 Fukushima hurt no one and no one died. Only about 2 grams (two dimes worth) of nuclear material was released equaling 1-10% of Chernobyl. That radiation was all trapped in the harbor according to PM Abe and other 'true believers', who have the 'faith'. There are those who worship nuclear missiles and they actually believe this nonsense, which is beyond a fairy tale.

        Right on TEPCO.. good word play and fairy tale, but it has NOTHING to do with reality.

  • Nick

    Unit #1 went first…. Unit #3 3/14, Unit #2 3/15 (0614 JST).

    Not exactly in numerical sequence. But so what? What was once one of the world's largest nuclear electrical generating stations experienced MASSIVE explosions shortly after the 3/11/11 earthquake.

    From the get go, the nuclear fools have downplayed the severity of the Fukushima Fiasco.

    ANYONE watching videos of the explosions of Units #'s One and Three would surely be alarmed. I was and still am.

    Basic physics dictates FUBAR.

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    My take is that the meltdown of the cask in Unit4 equipment pool, and perhaps an explosion coming from the partially loaded MOX and plutonium fuel in Reactor4 demolished Building4 at Fukushima.

    Since TEPCO has successfully defueled SFP4, I do not believe that an explosion inside SFP4 caused the demolition of Unit4.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      PhilipUpNorth, thanks for your considered opinion. Perhaps you are right that an explosion did not occur in the SFP. But could the zircaloy have burned, releasing the hydrogen required for the explosion?

      I think TEPCO, Gundersen, the NRC and other sources have said the SFP 4 had leaks, was not holding water, exposed the fuel assemblies, and had more than one fire, at least one of which was long lasting. A full reactor load of recent fuel was supposedly in the SFP.

      We can reiterate that recent tests showed there was enough decay heat to ignite the zircaloy. Dry assemblies WOULD HAVE burned.

      I only wish you would add this word; assumed. You assume TEPCO successfully defueled SFP4, and was wrong about their earlier assessments.

      below videos and papers show dry SFP4, zircaloy burn test, pyrophoric nature of zirconium and hypergolic/pyrophoric hydrazine

      https://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2012/06/03/the-varied-uses-of-hydrazine-the-reactor-anticorrosive-thats-also-a-rocket-fuel-solar-just-looks-better-and-better/
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0JwCrHTEUc
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJTRsYGEbgw
      http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/01/f19/DOE-HDBK-1081-2014.pdf
      http://rachel.worldpossible.org/modules/olpc/wikislice-chemistry-en/files/articles/Pyrophoric.htm

    • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

      SFP4 was successfully defueled. Casks were transported to the CSFP.

      One can only conclude that the reported fires were from the reactor and the equipment pool.
      Period.
      NO FIRES IN SFP4.

      Philip

        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          SFP4 was steaming after dewatering soon after 3/11.
          Fires were from equipment pool4 & reactor4, IMHO.

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            Philip, thanks. Do I understand you correctly that you think SFP4 did in fact lose water? If it was for any length of time, the assemblies would have caught fire, as the above video from Arnie shows. Some three months after the explosion, TEPCO again said the pool was discovered with low water and exposed fuel. By then, it would have burned up though. I wonder if the holding canisters would possibly survive assembly fires?

            I am not opinionated on anything except that there was a large explosion and mysterious stuff melted and ballistically scattered out the north side. Unit 4 is a mystery

            • AirSepTech AirSepTech

              I wish we knew the sequence of explosions, they say multiple occurred.
              That, would easily prove a few things.

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                AirSep,..the sequence of explosions is a matter of record. I could probably dig most out from my archives. One report said a ghastly explosion was heard in the torus of reactor 4. Now if they had already loaded the reactor, then maybe the fresh mox was in the reactor and not in the equipment pool, or maybe it was partly loaded. Philip gives a photo of fuel assembly canisters aglow with mox. If this is in the SFP, then how long were they using MOX? A nine hour fire was reported in the SFP. Thats a long time to mistake it for the equipment pool. Or maybe the spotter was cross eyed?

            • bf9 bf9

              Depending on a variety of factors, it takes minutes to like two hours for the zirconium cladding to ignite- I am in the camp that thinks they just barely managed to save the pool with a small fire in fact occurring in SFP#4. The equipment/storage pool on the north side of #4 melted out the side of the wall, likely with MOX assemblies in there (which is a violation of even TEPCO's procedures if I'm not mistaken, part of the reason I believe it's so hush-hush as that's direct liability). They dumped chemicals and water, and sent a bunch of 'kamikaze' workers to stabilize the pool. To AST below, I'm pretty sure they are connected to the same pumps/cooling systems although I can't find any confirmation to anything I've said at this time, not home.

              • bf9 bf9

                To add, this video shows the rods in SFP#4 at least oxidized, which means they were exposed to air and/or fire.
                http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/news/library/archive-e.html?video_uuid=u24s3e16&catid=61787

                • bf9 bf9

                  *assemblies not rods. Damn, do I need a drink and a good night's sleep.

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  bf9, Is there some evidence this video is actually from SFP4? TEPCO is not known for their outstanding truthfulness. Indeed, it looks oxidized, and has a different look under the handles…maybe zircaloy sparks sprayed up? Would the canister survive a fire though? Seems not likely. Add to the confusion that the pics of the glowing canisters as per Philips link above, seem empty. I dont see handles, just glowing slots

                • Don't believe tat is the #4 pool.. it is way to shiny, nice red fresh paint on the handles, just a little bit o dust here and there.

                  Nope, not buyin it. sorry.

                  • bf9 bf9

                    I am not aware of any fuel assemblies anywhere that have red handles, it's all steel. Any dark red your seeing there is oxidation/fire damage. I believe a lot of what TEPCO has said about #4, but not all and that should be obvious by now. TEPCO is not a company that spends money where they don't need to unlike many US contractors. TEPCO wants the bill the least while several stateside do everything they can to jack up the price. Will elaborate if I can later I need to get to bed.

                    • Uniform red handles, from a FIRE? uhhhhhh

                      No smoke, no dark areas anywhere? uhhhhh

                      Just nice shiny stainless steel and freshly painted red handles? Everything is all tidy whity, nothing missing, no fuel burned anywhere?

                      lolllllllllll

                      and then to top it all off, there are NO PICTURES of what REALLY happened, in the rest of the pools where TONS of MOX blew up, blew out, burned out, melted out, etc.

                      Come on… get real.

                      Paint red shiny lipstick on a dead pig… it's still a dead rotting corpse.

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                bf9…how many floors down from the top is the equipment pool? Is it the same story as the melt out? What are the dimensions of the building? I cant find them. I estimate it to be roughly 100 x 150 feet.

                This is what I see, without an in-depth forensics analysis; the gold/yellow melt came out of the same floor as the equipment pool. Its about 1/3 the width over, so MOX corium migrated some 33 feet horizontally (not down).

                The panels are about 25 feet square and I would guess two to three feet thick. Im going to eyeball that the melt volume is 25 x 2 x 4 feet = 200 cubic feet. Does that tally with a fuel load? Actually you can see more of it behind the panel that is only partly blown out, and there is a lot more that sprayed out to a distance of at least 50 feet, along with the panel. Probably there is more on the inside of the wall too, so one could estimate 400 cubic feet?

                What is the initial velocity of a panel that blasts out 50 feet while dropping 25 feet or less, coefficient of drag 1.28? Coincidentally, its exactly opposite the hole on the south side, so there is a kind of symmetry; The entire east side was obliterated except the center top two, the north and south sides were spared in the region of pools, the west not as bad as the east but also symmetrical with greater damage at the corners. continued…

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  Would a hydrogen blast give equal pressure everywhere? Just a wayward question of why the blast pattern is the way it is.

                  Any theory about Unit 4 and safe removal of fuel must address these things;

                  At least two papers demonstrated fuel from the spent pool on the other side of the planet by isotope ratios. At least THAT fuel is not in safe storage! Another paper calculates the quantity of water and time factors with an exact match for the amount of hydrogen needed and time of explosion from beginning of loss of cooling. This corroborates with the reports of loss of water, ripped steel pool casing, and fire in the SFP. This is indeed the story from every official source…so its pretty hard to ignore it I think!

                  So if the SFP was spared and the fuel safely stored, then another source for the explosion must be found. Is there enough zirconium in the one fuel load being loaded to generate enough hydrogen? Was it a nuclear detonation?

                  Near symmetrical blast indicates a gas explosion I think. But some interesting asymmetry means more than one type of blast may have occurred. What was on the floor where the north and south panels blew? Would mox corium travel 35 feet sideways, then blow up?

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    one more thing about supposed massive corium melt from the equipment pool is that later photos show the pool full of water. If the corium melted through the pool, how could it hold water?

                    • AirSepTech AirSepTech

                      Hey Code, I got all distracted, sorry

                      Lots of ?? I hate guessing, and people get all pissed off when it does not fit, me included. Some odd stuff, I think dosdos had good stuff on the other page.

                      I don't see how the west wall could be the first to go, H2 would be hard to accumulate thereafter.
                      Which means there is not much to trigger the no/so blast unless that galley is sealed up pretty good. So where did that H2 come from? I don't know
                      So I will guess, if the EQ pool held water after, then 'something' in that galley dirty blasted, then H2 from the sfp and boom to the building, then even boom from the reactor close behind. Just a guess. I think anne said 3, maybe 4 boom

                      I would give up a LN to have video with sound and timestamp. I guess I will be giving them both up anyway.

      • AirSepTech AirSepTech

        Thanks gentlemen, the tin hat gets tight at times.
        I have always thought the EQ pool was connected.
        I do not think it was 'only H2' that did all the damage @ R4.

        And I can see why there would be a cover, it is a very bad story that 'MOX' could go AWOL,, on its own,, out of a reactor.

        The whole damn thing is a cover up, multiple covers.

        I was taught the Russians were the biggest liars.

        I think they have lost their edge.

  • Fukushima Building #4 Timeline Of Events; Equipment Pool Melted Out, Multiple SFP Fires, Multiple Explosions, TEPCO Lies Exposed
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2013/12/agreenroad-tepcofukushima-lies-exposed.html

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Defueling SFP4 is well documented in video.
    Check out removal of filled cask, and loading it on the truck for transport to the CSFP.
    Starts at 4 minutes in.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIA5LqMNMXY

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      You will note that anything that has descriptive marks is intentionally pixelated out or covered over. This is especially visible on the transport cask at the top when they are lowering it. Why go through the trouble? It LOOKS well documented…but IS IT?

      • AirSepTech AirSepTech

        Is it accurate to say TEPCO maintains H2 is the only cause of R4
        destruction?
        Sorry to say I may have had some ADD moments.
        Neighbor is needing some support, a terminal ill spouse. 🙁

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          AirSep, TEPCO doesnt talk about it too much. The theory is that hydrogen came over from unit 3 via the big pipes. Not possible. The major roof damage is above the equipment pool. The wall didnt slump over, it was blasted out toward the north while the roof was obliterated, allowing the top of the wall to cave in. Unit 4 is an unsolved mystery

          • AirSepTech AirSepTech

            Yes, NO H2 came from R3, unless they believe it transferred before R3 went bang. If there was that much H2 in R4, to do all the damage to R4, it would have followed R3, in a pretty grand fashion, promptly. IMO

            The shock wave from R3 would have damaged R4. How much I can only guess, maybe there good pics of R4 before it went up, after R3 fragged the crap out of it. The damage may not be clearly visible, but structural, and allow for more damage with less energy later.

            A mystery indeed, clouded in TEPCO bullshit.

            • Ness Ness

              I think half or more of SPF 4 went up in an explosion or detonation we haven't seen on video. Those fuel assemblies are just loosely connected and very long, 10 meters i heard (not checked). The top half lost all water so it went critical, produced awful amounts of the meanest H around, tritium, that has neutrons captured in the cores of H and those neutrons act like tiny bombs when released in an explosion – they pierce everything.

              The top half blew up, the bottom half stayed and that remnant is what was shown to the world. After the explosion or detonation, a hole somewhere connected the rest of the SPF with the reactorvessel room; that one was also filled with 3H due to the activity in the SPF but it was empty (if we take Tepco's word on this). What you can see in the Indian video is that room venting all 3H that was locked inside.

              There was an amazing amount of spent fuel stashed in both pool 3 (all of that went up with the detonation) and 4 (with at least half of the SFP). This spent fuel is now spread worldwide and it is lethal, but the heavy parts came back down right away and fell on the terrain and in the water nearby. One fuel assembly in the water just went critical (it's mox so very fissionable) and from now on, if they don't find a way to fish it out, it will periodically make 'foamium'. It is imperative to keep watching that webcam. This is what i think happened based on the fragments of information – and the strange half – emptiness of SPF 4.

              • Ness Ness

                "connected the rest of the SPF with the reactorvessel room; that one was also filled with 3H due to the activity in the SPF "

                should be: not just the reactor room but all other rooms as well. There was quite some activity in all units; some must have kept producing 3H because the reactorlids open to let out steam. That is a mechanical component, no electricity needed.

                This gas found a way out via the holes left by the explosion of SFP 4. That explosion happened; the pictures speak for themselves, even if it hasn't been shown on video. Those fuel assemblies shown are not long enough to be an entire fuel assembly. That is just half of it, or even less.

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                Ness, if the top half of the assemblies blew up, would you see the assembly handles and perfect condition racks?

            • Ness Ness

              I do think reactor 4 was empty or they would not have been able to remove the remnant of the SPF bundles. If there had been anything inside, the explosion would have been tremendous, just from the 3H alone. Like the detonation of unit 3. But all reactors are connected and gas will spread evenly.

              There must have been a way for the gas to gather in every nook and cranny of unit 4, just not enough to explode because the vessel was empty and the steam valves in the lid had no reason to open. All of the gas from all units was vented out through the holes made by the explosion in SPF 4, and i think that is what we see in that Indian video.

              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                Ness, what do you mean with "all of the gas from all units was vented out through the holes made by the explosion in SPF 4"?

                • Ness Ness

                  Whatever gas was left or produced in the whole complex, code. See, the reactors with a meltdown certainly did not stop producing 3H. There was still plenty of zirconium left in all 3 units. And the vessels have a valve that opens when the pressure is too high. The buildings are all interconnected.

                  Most units had gigantic holes in them but gas spreads evenly, stays in tunnels, hangs underneath ceilings that are still intact. If that Indian video was real, this could explain the amount of gas escaping that we see. Most likely it was just steam from a boiling pool or a mix. The plume did not go very high.

                  But part of that fuel pool exploded, no doubt about it. The reason i think there was the reactor itself was empty is that it would still be impossible to even come near the place with MOX fuel in meltdown.
                  http://www.nucleartourist.com/basics/hlwaste.htm
                  The assembly used was 4,5 meters long, MOX or not. Because that is the lenght that fits the type of reactor.

                  • Jebus Jebus

                    Um Ness, that Indian news video of the plant site has been debunked long ago on ENENews.

                    If you pay attention to the layout of the plant while watching it you quickly see that the "steam" plume is coming from R3…

                  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                    Ness, the pipes that interconnect the unit 3 and 4, at least the big visible one, was destroyed. Also the unit 3 was so destroyed, its hard to imagine any ongoing hydrogen being produced to travel to unit 4 instead of out the building. Thats why I was confused by your statement. Maybe you have in mind some other pathway. If the Vox fuel that was going to be loaded melted into corium, it seems work would be nearly impossible in the region. People think that melt out on the north side is just that. What do you think?

                    • Ness Ness

                      No i really don't know how all those pipes and building are connected. If it was not 3H in that video it was steam. But fuel in a SFP doesnt have the time to melt into a corium – there is so much 3H around it would explode long before anything got together that way. Like the SFP in 3.

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      Ness, I think the calculation showed it took about four days for the SFP zircaloy to produce enough hydrogen. In the meantime, the pellets in piles at the bottom…not enough time for corium?

                    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                      my above post may be wrong, I have to find the paper….I think the time allowed for boiling down

                    • Ness Ness

                      You could be wrong there. Because that fuel wasn't really suffering from anything but a lack of water. Only dry fuel will start fissioning, and it takes a while for the heat to build up to make the zirconium release 3H.

                      Btw, i'll check on dirty bombs. I hadn't thought of that. Have no idea how that works. But i'm off to bed, sry.

                • AirSepTech AirSepTech

                  Uncontained, H2 goes up, as in up in the sky, as fast as a helium balloon.

                  R4 had no connection to anything H2 related. How?
                  All H2 was created in R4 as far as R4 is concerned. IMO with info available.

            • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

              OK AirSep, so lets assume all hydrogen came from Unit 4. Would there be enough zircaloy in the equipment room to generate it? Why didnt the spent fuel burn up when exposed to air and high decay heat (what to say of the nine hour fire)? Thats to say, either the SFP burned and they DIDNT remove the assemblies as stated, or by a miracle it did not burn, and only the mox load waiting in the EQ room. Weigh in. Would 1/4 to 1/2 million pounds of mox corium migrate 35 ft sideways, not down, before setting off the hydrogen blast?

              • AirSepTech AirSepTech

                This is a problem, no production amount or time.

                Anything will set it off, it will rise to the ceiling, go out every crevice, escape is what it does well.

                MOX, hot, moving, friction, not with much H2 around.
                4-70+% concentration, burn or bang. No prisoners.
                Had to move well before, or after H2. Case closed.

                See the other thread, different view. 🙂

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  Thanks AirSep. That is why Im inclined to think the melt out is not corium but blown up isolation condensers. The building was sealed as the H2 increased from the SFP. The isolation condensers went steaming, which might have reduced the strength of the north and south walls where the symmetrical holes are…in line with the isolation condensers. Then the explosion. Can isolation condensers explode? A massive steam explosion the instant before hydrogen blast. Meanwhile the mox might have gone critical in dirty bomb style which blew off the remaining roof over that area. Why the equipment pool still holds water is a mystery.

                  • AirSepTech AirSepTech

                    Code this fits as well as can be figured.
                    PUN says EQ pool dry since event.
                    Steam Methane Reformers produce H2, a steam explosion is a HUGE safety concern. :(:(:(

                    H2 is interesting, opening a cylinder under pressure will light it off. Hole in a regulator, loose fitting leaks=instant fire.
                    To your post below,,,if the shoe fits….

                    So, how much? As it is produced it rises, and like a falling curtain concentrates. At some point it finds an ignition source. If that size of bldg. was 30ft deep in H2/top downward, even at 1 bar pressure it is a bunch of energy. We can guess scf volume and purity. A big boom. But I don't think the only energy source, too much in common with R3 and I know R3 was not H2 alone.
                    IMO, professional if we must go there 🙂

                • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                  AirSep, there is a paper which calculated the amount of time and quantity of hydrogen from zircaloy in the SFP was a perfect fit to the timeline. Ive posted it a few times.

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    There was a TEPCO announcement, within a month after the accident, to the affect that workers had finally gotten the gates lowered into place. These gates block off the reactor from the EP and SFP. They had been removed to facilitate the loading of fuel from the EP and SFP into the repaired reactor. This was the setup on 3/11.

    When the EP went dry, with the fuel melting out of the bottom, the dewatering of the EP also lowered the water level in the SFP. The SFP was already hot, with the working fuel load taken out of the reactor in November, 2010. They needed to install an auxiliary pump just to handle the extra cooling load in SFP4. With the pumps down, and the SFP water level lowered by the loss of the EP, Unit4 was in big trouble after 3/11.

    It was vital for TEPCO to get the gate in place, the one between the reactor and the SFP, so that the water level of the SFP could be brought back up, and a meltdown of SFP4 could be avoided. I will try to find that TEPCO announcement later on today, and will post the link. (Unless somebody has that link handy now.)

You must be logged in to post a comment.