Published: March 12th, 2012 at 1:02 pm ET
|
Title: Gundersen: One Year Anniversary of Fukushima Daiichi
Source: RT
Date: March 11, 2012
Transcript Excerpts at 1:15 in
There’s contamination out at least 30km, and in some areas perhaps as high as 60km, where people should never return.
In addition, I was just in Tokyo and took five samples, and those five samples were high enough to qualify as radioactive waste here in North America.
Contamination goes well beyond Fukushima prefecture… the entire north of the country has a public health hazard here because everyone is exposed to radioactive cesium, radioactive strontium, and other isotopes.
h/t Whoopie
Published: March 12th, 2012 at 1:02 pm ET
|
sending...
Hmm – Arnie appearing on RT and saying that Tokyo is contaminated?
I wonder if he decided that taking blood money from the industry wasn't really what he wanted to do.
I noticed his ardent supporters when he was reading from the nuke industry script these past few months turned on him in the last thread
- maybe they don't have him under their thumb after all.
I do wish Arnie would not mince words and try to pretend it's past tense.
Report Comment
James2,
Why is Gundersen so sure that the iodine 131 is not from fission?
I can't remember, did his Marco buddy say that there were 10 hot particles in Tokyo? In this RT interview, he doesn't suggest his current findings are particularly worrying.
I wonder if your early interpretation of Gundersen now has legs on Enenews because of the recent release of NRC transcripts.
The sudden change of heart of the ardent Gundersen supporters may result form this disclosure of NRC transcripts, no longer much to gain here from his defense.
A huge thanks for your work, James2!
p.s. can you send your military buddy with the dummy terminals over to my place?
Report Comment
Another excellent interview of Arnie.
This is such an important point that he makes:
"My biggest concern are the developing countries where there's a really close relationship between the people that own the power plant and the supposed regulators, even closer than it was in Japan, so I think we have many accidents waiting to happen throughout the world. Fukushima was not a one-of a kind phenomenon."
Report Comment
He is talking about waste products of nuclear fission. Waste products are Strontium-90, Cesium-137, and Iodine-131, these are readily absorbed by biological systems or the worst isotopes.
Report Comment
At about 1:02, he says that the heat being generated is not from fission, but from decay.
How does he know that it is not from fission?
Report Comment
I cannot see the video, can someone give me a link to it (source), thanks
Report Comment
Here is my version of the transcript (I'm not a professional transcriber):
(at about 00:40)
RT interviewer: So there are reports that even though the plant is shut down, fusion products such as uranium are still generating heat, so what is the status of the plant, and the nearby city?
AG: The heat is being generated and will be generated for years to come, not from fission, but from the splitting of the atoms that occurred in years past, all those atoms are going to generate heat for years to come…
…..
So, my question is how does he know there is not fission at Fukushima?
Iodine has been detected in various places, for example:
http://enenews.com/iodine-131-detected-in-tokyo-snow-on-jan-20
Title: Iodine-131 measured from snow in Hachioji Tokyo
Source: Fukushima Diary
Date: January 20th, 2012
SOURCE: Fukushima Diary
It snowed on 1/20/2012 around in Tokyo.
They measured Iodine-131 from the snow in Hachioji Tokyo.
Cesium-134 @ 14.9 Bq/kg
Cesium-137 @ 15.3 Bq/kg
Iodine-131 @ 20.0 Bq/kg
Measurement of Iodine 131 suggest the possibility of recriticality of Fukushima, but it was measured more than cesium at this test. [...]
I have understood Iodine 131 to be a fission product:
EPA: Iodine-129 and iodine-131 are gaseous fission products that form within fuel rods as they fission.
http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/radionuclides/iodine.html
This is because I-131 is a major uranium, plutonium fission product, comprising nearly 3% of the total products of fission (by weight).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_131
Since it decays so quickly, "131I decays with a half-life of 8.02 days,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_131
Iodine 131 is an indicator of recent fission, no? So why does Gundersen say that the heat is "not from fission?"
Report Comment
Nuclear fission refers to a nuclear reaction or a radioactive decay process in which the nucleus of an atom splits into smaller parts.
So splitting atoms is fission and if I'm correct AG does not know what he is talking about. Splitting atom = fission
Report Comment
Also fission and fusion are two different things:
Fission is split atom (smaller)
Fusion is joining two atoms (bigger)
Report Comment
Yes, I heard RT say "fusion" and AG say "fission." Would appreciate other ears.
Report Comment
Thanks, Lacsap.
Isn't Iodine 131 taken to be an indication of recent fission?
Iodine-131 detected in recent Minamisoma tap water (LAB REPORT)
http://enenews.com/iodine-131-detected-recent-minamisoma-tap-water-lab-report
Xinhua: Radioactive Iodine-131 detected in Austria
http://enenews.com/xinhua-radioactive-iodine-131-detected-austria-source/comment-page-1
Bobby1
February 12, 2012 at 2:46 pm · Reply
The latest measurements on iodine-131 that I have found were from sewage sludge ash on February 6. Two locations in Kanagawa prefecture detected it. One reading in Odawara was the highest since they started measuring.
http://www.pref.kanagawa.jp/cnt/f215/p360223.html (Japanese)
Report Comment
Iodine-131 is a uranium, plutonium fission product (nuclear reactor) it has a half-life of about eight days. It is really hard to look up, but the Iodine-131 is probably a decay from another isotope which is a decay of another decay and so on.
Report Comment
Sewer sludge has radioactive iodine in it?
Where is that coming from?
Maybe some sewer rats are generating their own power from fissioning plutonium/uranium/etc.. to stay warm inside the sewers?
Since FUKU is in cold shutdown, (even though it is still steaming) that could not be where fission is happening….
I wonder whatever happened to the three 'lost' corium 65 ton blobs that exited at least one, if not three reactor buildings?
So these blobs also decided to go on strike and not fission anymore, and just 'decay' into old age… Wow, no more sex for you, corium blobs!
You have been naughty. Now you must decay, but never fission again… Fission is against church rules…taboo, never to be spoken of again..
Otherwise, you will labeled a heretic, and be thrown out of the church of nukedominion forever and ever.
If you mention 'fission', you will be sent into the lake of everlasting radioactive fire that only Satanists worship and talk about; made up of corium blobs that did not follow edicts isssued from on high.
Report Comment
AGR: "So these blobs also decided to go on strike and not fission anymore, and just 'decay' into old age… Wow, no more sex for you, corium blobs!"
LOL, LOL!
Not the response I expected, thanks
.
Report Comment
It seems the info on corium fission is repressed, I can only see from WIKI that:
Chain reaction and corresponding increased heat production may progress in parts of the corium if a critical mass can be achieved locally. This condition can be detected by presence of short-life fission products long after the meltdown, in amounts too high to be remaining from the controlled reaction inside the pre-meltdown reactor. As chain reactions generate high amounts of heat and fresh, highly radioactive fission products, this condition is highly undesirable.
Iodine-131 is a short lived isotpe (8 day's) and so it is possible that the corium is releasing Iodine-131. My guess, corium is a shit blob of molten core which creates all kinds of nasty isotopes.. Fuked
Report Comment
Corium blobs …. I hope some creative cartoonist picks up on that meme and gives us something to look at.
Report Comment
i would venture
1) no neutron flux
2) no other shrt lived sotopes O-13, Xe 133, I-135,
if you dont see those, then its Decay not fission…
Report Comment
So Iodine-131 is not a fission product? Do you have a link for this?
Report Comment
Radiation Causing Unusual Changes: What's Happening to Children Now?
http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/radiation-causing-unusual-changes-whats.html
The important thing is to SAVE THE CHILDREN!
Report Comment
We have known for months that radioactive wastes are being dumped in Tokyo Bay. Of course Tokyo is contaminated! They are burning radioactive waste all over the entire country, soon to include Okinawa. Why is this news?
Report Comment
OMG…here it comes folks. Be Prepared: ANTI-NUKES ARE TO BLAME
The responsibility for this lies squarely on anti-nuclear activists who relished in spouting fatalistic, exaggerated claims, and on an uninformed media who presented those claims as virtual facts while downplaying opposing views from true experts in the field.
http://theenergycollective.com/johnwheeler/79128/anti-nuclear-hysterics-not-melted-reactors-blame-fukushima-health-impacts
SHAMEFUL ARTICLE…
Report Comment
That Article Was Written By John Wheeler. He's just another nuclear industry mouthpiece spouting their heartless corporate propaganda. We have to counter their BS with a constant stream of truth telling until the effects of Fukushima begin to flood the internet with pictures of deformed babies and cancer riddled children. Then their lies can be forcefully shoved down their F-ing throats.
About John Wheeler:
Producer of "This Week in Nuclear"; Manager in the Nuclear Industry; Former Senior Reactor Operator; Nuclear Workforce Planning & Workforce Development Expert
Report Comment
Hi Whoopie. I've seen that kind of propaganda in the past. The version I've seen is that the plants would be so much safer now if it weren't for the anti-nuke people who wouldn't let them do whatever they wanted to do. It's nonsense, but they've got big media pulpits. Keep doin' what you do!
SHUT THEM ALL DOWN
Report Comment
Wow, what's all this anti-Arnie stuff? We used to call this kind of attacking "the Piranha Complex," when people with no power turn on those who have just a little more of the little power and try to get a piece of it or tear that person down instead of uniting against the larger oppressor. Arnie has the ability to get info that's well-known to us into more mainstream media. He's cautious because he's been burned, badly, by the industry. He's known as the least hot-headed of the major anti-nuke players, so sometimes he can bump his info up the media food chain. We need all the allies we can get; he's a big one. Save the bile for the genuinely bad guys, would you please?
Report Comment
I'm saving my BILE for the guy i just posted above. Man that article has me STEAMING MAD
Report Comment
Whoopie,
I find Auntie Nuke's post coming right after yours very ironic, it seems like "Exhibit A" of your warning.
Report Comment
The nuclear debate is a very “hot” topic (truly, no pun intended) and can cause emotions to get in the way of solid argumentation. It seems apparent to me that several ENENEWS readers are annoyed with Arnie Gunderson because he doesn’t exhibit the same fervor in his arguments that they do.
How many of you have had death threats? Arnie has. How many of you have been relentlessly followed by unidentified operatives like Arnie has been? How many of you have had your phone-line illegally tapped? How many of you have had to declare bankruptcy because of a frivolous lawsuit designed to harass and intimidate? And how many of you would continue to speak out with candor after having suffered all of the above?
My take on Arnie is that he is doing the best he can at giving truthful and insightful comments about Fukushima and the nuclear industry in general, given the way he has been harassed and persecuted for having been a whistleblower. Arnie tends toward understatement so that he is not accused of exaggeration, and he tends toward reasonable conclusions so as not to be labled a wild-eyed extremist. These are the qualities that I found so endearing when I first started to hear his reporting. He immediately engenders trust because he is so calm and rational, with carefully chosen words.
Arnie is no shill. He is as saddened by the Fukushima meltdowns as any of you are. He is totally against the proliferation of nuclear power. But it is precisely because he tempers his opinions that he is able to gain significant venues and large audiences. Not everyone is either for or against nuclear power. There are a lot of fence-sitters. Those are the people who will be swayed into the anti-nuclear camp because Arnie makes persuasive analyses, and he does so with the calm, matter-of-fact style of a true scientist. I believe that he is a very good man to have on our side (the anti-nuke side).
Report Comment
aSpadeisaSpade,
I think that Gundersen's understated style is charming and effective.
Can you answer me this:
The detection of Iodine 131 in 2012 is not in question, below are just a few examples, and iodine 131 is a fission product with a 8.02 day half life (links above), so it is an indication of recent fission, no? Why then does Gundersen say that the heat is "not from fission?"
Iodine-131 detected in recent Minamisoma tap water (LAB REPORT)
http://enenews.com/iodine-131-detected-recent-minamisoma-tap-water-lab-report
Xinhua: Radioactive Iodine-131 detected in Austria
http://enenews.com/xinhua-radioactive-iodine-131-detected-austria-source/comment-page-1
Bobby1
February 12, 2012 at 2:46 pm · Reply
The latest measurements on iodine-131 that I have found were from sewage sludge ash on February 6. Two locations in Kanagawa prefecture detected it. One reading in Odawara was the highest since they started measuring.
http://www.pref.kanagawa.jp/cnt/f215/p360223.html (Japanese)
Report Comment
+1
totally agreed
Report Comment
Auntie, you are right about the piranha effect. However, it is safe to assume there are sharks in these waters also who would have different reasons to enjoy seeing piranhas (or minnows) turn on Arnie.
One person honestly thinks he has detected a major "gotcha" in Arnie-world. The next person invents one. The waters get murky with mud and blood.
There will be lots of divide and conquer games ahead, I fear.
Epimenides would have watched our predicament with interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox
I much prefer Arnie, warts and all, to a hundred (hypothetical) armchair critics sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt in all directions. Did I just sow fear, uncertainty and doubt?… There's the dilemma!
SHUT THEM ALL DOWN (He added, attempting to resolve any doubt)
… but maybe he doesn't really mean it. Maybe it's a pro-nuke code of some kind. That's it. It's a psy-op – it's a conspiracty – he's obviously in league with (your favorite demon here)… and away we all go again, round and round and round, while Fukushima Daiichi never stops and the industry never forgets what it wants.
I know what I want.
SHUT THEM ALL DOWN (Arnie's help is welcome and probably essential)
Report Comment
aigeezer,
I am not certain what piranhas and guppies are indicators of, but isn't Iodine 131 an indication of recent fission?
Iodine 131 is a fission product with a 8.02 day half life (links above), so it is an indication of recent fission, no? Why then does Gundersen say that the heat is "not from fission?"
Iodine-131 detected in recent Minamisoma tap water (LAB REPORT)
http://enenews.com/iodine-131-detected-recent-minamisoma-tap-water-lab-report
Xinhua: Radioactive Iodine-131 detected in Austria
http://enenews.com/xinhua-radioactive-iodine-131-detected-austria-source/comment-page-1
Bobby1
February 12, 2012 at 2:46 pm · Reply
The latest measurements on iodine-131 that I have found were from sewage sludge ash on February 6. Two locations in Kanagawa prefecture detected it. One reading in Odawara was the highest since they started measuring.
http://www.pref.kanagawa.jp/cnt/f215/p360223.html (Japanese)
Report Comment
"Why then does Gundersen say X?" (for any X). I don't know.
And away we go.
SHUT THEM ALL DOWN
Report Comment
Isn't Iodine 131 an indication of recent fission?
Report Comment
Hi NoNukes. I've been thinking seriously about your "gotcha" I131 question. It's a good one.
It was leading me into a place I didn't want to be, namely the possibility that I would have to argue that the end (shutting down nukes) might justify the means (backing a champion – Arnie – with reservations). Tough moral dilemma for me, although for many people it's easy – "my enemy's enemy is my friend".
Anyway, it strikes me that there is an honorable way out for all, based partly on NoNukes/Bobby1 dialog starting at 5:42. I'm thinking of the hypothetical possibility that some kind of "cold pancake" entity exists (hopefully most of the corium) but at the same time there is/are one or more blobs (hopefully few and small) that are periodically going critical – perhaps out of range of water and/or boron.
This is pure speculation and not really intended literally. Rather I'm suggesting that if some kind of meticulous examination could take place (it won't), then it might be revealed that Arnie's position is defensible and even correct, once all the details are sifted through.
With that possibility on the table… what would be the "win" in successfully discrediting Arnie at this moment in the saga? Would the goal of shutting down the industry be easier or more difficult without Arnie?
Any way I come at it, this is not a good time to attempt to discredit Arnie, if the overriding goal is to shut down the nuclear industry.
I still haven't answered your isotope "gotcha" question, but then… why "guppies"? (rhetorical, just rhetorical – nobody should have to answer a "gotcha" question).
Peace, and of course
SHUT THEM ALL DOWN
Report Comment
aigeezer,
Gundersen literally "got" me today! I am so tired, and listening to his presentation made me think that maybe I misunderstood about Iodine 131. It reminded me of something I read here I think, about how the iodine could be from the scattered fuel rods, etc.
So I checked into the EPA, etc, read it again, put "Iodine 131 2012" into the Enenews search box, asked questions.
There is Iodine 131 increasing, and in far away places like Australia in 2012. That indicates to me that it is probably not from a couple of fuel rods by the side of the road. Since it is a fission product, that means there is fission.
Gundersen has been supporting Tepco's "cold shutdown" line passively, by referring to Fukushima in the past tense.
Today he has switched to actively stating that there is "not fission" at Fukushima, which he didn't even have to say to answer the RT question.
The Iodine 131 is spreading, it is a real threat, not just in Japan, but internationally.
There is no way to warn anyone about this if everyone pretends that Fukushima is over, in the past, that there is "not fission."
Denying reality doesn't help us.
Report Comment
Thanks, NoNukes. Normally, I'd be eager to parse Arnie's every word (or anyone else's – darned guppies) but these days I'm so wary of being exploited by media/industry/government that I'm thinking more strategically than usual.
I may yet find myself in an "end justifies the means" box (trying not to think of Cheney), but I'm not there yet.
Fukushima is not over, that's for sure.
Let's see what tomorrow brings.
Report Comment
I hear you, nonukes, but I don't agree with you in thinking Arnie "has been supporting Tepco's" line, not in cold shutdown nor other ideas. I just want least to give those who are at least "trying" to help as best they can, a little space, a little room.
Arnie has done nothing so wrong as to warrant shooting the messenger.
Report Comment
dharmasyd,
I'm not shooting anybody, I am listening to Gundersen, and paying attention to what he says.
I didn't force him to say that heat at Fukushima is "not from fission." He is on so many shows now telling everyone that this is over when it is not.
How about he gives a little space, a little room to the babies in Fukushima who are breathing in the Iodine-131 and everything else?
Report Comment
@No Nukes…Thank you for the clarification, although you maintain your stand completely. That's fine. You deserve your own "truth", and I deserve my own "opinion." I didn't notice that he wasn't giving any room to the babies of Fuku. But if that's what you hear, that's what you hear.
Report Comment
Agreed, aigeezer.
@aspadeisaspade……
This comment makes a lot of sense to me:
"There are a lot of fence-sitters. Those are the people who will be swayed into the anti-nuclear camp because Arnie makes persuasive analyses, and he does so with the calm, matter-of-fact style of a true scientist. I believe that he is a very good man to have on our side (the anti-nuke side)."
I think enenewsers forget sometimes that the rest of the world are not paying the same careful attention to everything Fuku/Nuku that we are. Arnie can and will reach people that the rest of us cannot……makes him an asset.
NO MO NUKES !!
Report Comment
Poor Daddy,
Doesn't saying that the heat at Fukushima comes "not from fission" help Tepco's myth of "cold shutdown, and not the side of reality? How is this accurate in the face of all of the detection of Iodine 131?
Report Comment
Actually iodine-131 went up in Gunma since then. Heat coming "not from fission" is decay heat, so what Gundersen is saying is that if we just be patient the corium will cool down, it might emit a little cesium, that's all. The accident is in the past, but they're burning debris which is bad etc. A Fuku Lite viewpoint.
Report Comment
Yes, decay heat is not Iodine 131, right? Iodine 131 is a fission product? And there are on-going detections of Iodine 131?
Report Comment
Iodine-131 only comes out during fission. That means a re-criticality has occurred, and the corium has heated up. Decay heat means the corium is cooling down from the decay of isotopes in it.
There's I-131 in some sludge, and it's in the tap water at Minamisoma.
Report Comment
Plus the snow in Tokyo ("traces?"):
Iodine has been detected in various places, for example:
http://enenews.com/iodine-131-detected-in-tokyo-snow-on-jan-20
Title: Iodine-131 measured from snow in Hachioji Tokyo
Source: Fukushima Diary
Date: January 20th, 2012
SOURCE: Fukushima Diary
It snowed on 1/20/2012 around in Tokyo.
They measured Iodine-131 from the snow in Hachioji Tokyo.
Cesium-134 @ 14.9 Bq/kg
Cesium-137 @ 15.3 Bq/kg
Iodine-131 @ 20.0 Bq/kg
And the Sweden, Norway, Finland issue:
http://enenews.com/radioactive-iodine-131-detected-sweden-norway-finland-reactor-isotope-source-hospital/comment-page-1
More than I was thinking about before this thread.
So, what do you think about this increase in Iodine-131 in various places around the world?
How much experience do we have with this runaway fuel scenario?
Report Comment
There is no experience with a runaway fuel scenario. All there is, is denial.
It's kind of hard to separate runaway coriums, from spent fuel pool #4, plus "normal" releases from NPP's, accidents like Mercoule (some get publicized, some don't). The crud is spewing out everywhere in the first place, and now there's Fuku on top of it.
Report Comment
1. The coriums are not cooling down like they are supposed to. We are in unchartered waters, we don't know when they will stop fissioning?
2. Is it coming from some other new meltdown?
3. ???????
Report Comment
NoNukes,
I think you are looking for a smoking gun that I don't believe is there. Yes, I believe that iodine-131 is a product of fission, and I also believe that it has a half-life of about 8 days. But I am far from being a nuclear engineer or even well-educated in nuclear physics.
I've already given my opinion on Arnie Gunderson above, but I have a few more general observations.
1) Just because a given isotope has a half-life of 8 days doesn't mean it will be totally gone in 16 days. It will be diminished by 3/4. After another half-life (24 days) it will be diminished by 7/8, and so one until it has been diminished to an extent that it can no longer be detected.
2) I believe that the argument about whether there is criticality occurring in the reactors is moot. I am convinced that the cores have left the buildings and are burrowing toward the Argentina syndrome.
3) I believe that SFP #4 will render all speculation moot when (not if) it gets exposed to the atmosphere. I am not hoping for this, but I am afraid that it is inevitable.
Based on my beliefs #2 and #3, I further believe that the world will soon be given irrefutable, undeniable evidence that nuclear power = death in large numbers. Just like diamonds, meltdowns (as someone said here recently) are forever, and there is absolutely no science which describes how to clean one up.
Soon (sometime this year) the world will know the truth about nuclear, and we won't have to worry about who is pro-nuke and who is anti-nuke, and who is masquerading as anti-nuke in order to obfuscate the arguments and mislead the public.
Report Comment
50 years ago, people knew that nuclear power was extremely dangerous. People knew that there was no way to clean up a meltdown, and people knew that the conundrum of what to do with the spent fuel was enough reason to never develop nuclear power plants. But the industry had clout, money, and a corrupt government declaring that it was safe, and in the name of progress, they declared, you shouldn't listen to all of the Chicken Littles who were proclaiming that the sky was falling.
I am absolutely convinced that the reason that the government was an adamant proponent of np was so that they could continue to do nuclear weapon research and development, and do it within the “respectability” of an electric generation facility. I would bet that this scenario played out many times, in many facilities.
Report Comment
aSpadeisaSpade,
You understand Iodine 131 to be a product of fission and that there is criticality at Fukushima? Thanks for clarifying, the above video made me really confused.
Report Comment
Hi NoNukes…..
This is where my head was a year ago…..
My initial interest in Fukushima was tsunami related. It actually stemmed from the similarity of the geography to where I live(looks exactly like home), the fact that a subduction quake is overdue just off shore in the Pac NW, and the tsunami damage that will be sustained in my neighborhood. My house will be debris.
Then Fukushima nuke plant went belly up.
I knew very little about nuke power. I knew about Chernobyl…(figured it was over). I knew about TMI in the abstract…..(had ZERO idea how much radiation was released). I had no idea that nuke plants by their very nature leak shit all the time. No idea of the age or condition of nuke plants. Radioactivity was radioactivity… I had heard of half-lifes, didn't know what a radionuclide or isotope was, and to this day have no real working understanding about becquerels, curies, rems and rads.
So, using this mindset I had a year ago, I watched this Arnie/RT interview just now. IF this was the first time I had ever encountered Fuku info, this vid would scare the shit out of me and for that reason alone, Arnie's comments are useful. Nukes will NEVER be shut down as long as it's only discussed on sites like this with nuke aware people. It must be a hot topic on TV, Facebook, Tweets, etc. No Nuke attitude has to become a serious movement for literally millions. Arnie reaches millions of people and in his understated way, scares them into looking a little closer. That is needed. We will not go from 500 Nuke Plants to Zero Nuke Plants in a week or two. We are all needed to get the message out as far and wide as possible….even Arnie, maybe especially, Arnie.
Point is, if you think you know more about all this than Arnie, or think he's lying, put yourself in my shoes a year ago. That man was a large part of opening my eyes to just how deadly all this nuke shit is, and I'll bet he's doing the same for alot of folks today too.
Report Comment
Poor Daddy,
So there's a charge for a local hotel on the credit card bill, when your girlfriend was "on a business trip in Montreal," but you don't ask about it because she taught you to play chess?
The doctor says you're fine even though you can see the tumor growing out of your stomach, but it would be inappropriate to question him because he gave you that cast for free when you broke your leg?
The neighbor runs over your dog, but you don't say a word because he lends you his lawnmower?
I don't get it. This isn't a small technicality. This is the whole ball of wax. This fuel is burning out of control and he insists that it is not.
We are supposed to accept this, pretend he isn't lying? How is telling people that it is OVER going to help? How is this helping anyone but Tepco?
Enenews taught me FAR more than I ever learned from Gundersen. Thank you to Admin and everyone at Enenews, even if I never get a good night's sleep again!
Report Comment
YOU understand what the presence of I131 means. I do now, but wouldn't have a year ago. Not asking you to pretend or accept anything. Not asking you to forgive him.
Just saying that he IS reaching some people, and that is needed IMHO at this time just as much as all the tech data. He is not saying there is no danger, he is telling folks it is still spewing radiation. He is telling them it will continue for decades. He is not painting a pretty picture. What he is saying might be enough for a "newbie" to wrap their head around and maybe follow a link to more knowledge. What he is saying will get people looking and learning.
In your past was every instructor, teacher or professor 100% correct all the time? Probably not. Did you learn something useful from them anyway? Probably.
And I totally agree with your last point. Enenews has taught me FAR more than I ever learned from Arnie. I would never have heard of Arnie Gunderson without Enenews…or Busby, or Caldicot or any of the thousands of posts that have changed my life, but Arnie was also part of my Nuke-Nightmare education.
I don't sleep as well as I used to, but I'm grateful to all for the education.
SHUT THE MOTHERFUCKERS DOWN…..ASAP !
Report Comment
Wait a minute! How'd you know my GF went to Montreal on business??
Report Comment
Lol, Poor Daddy!
Report Comment
Don't thank me, I'm blind in both ears and have a tin eye.
Report Comment
"The China Syndrome" is a store on the children's TV show, "The Simpsons." "China Syndrome" is a deeply embedded concept in our culture.
Although some argue that Fukushima is so complicated, that those beyond Enenews wouldn't understand…
you really only need 2 words, and Gundersen's audience would get it. Probably their kids would, too.
The vast majority of Americans are already against picking up the tab for nuclear. Imagine asking anyone you know if they want their hard earned money to pay for nuclear "clean-up," and how many would say yes?
72 percent of Americans do not "think taxpayers should take on the risk for the construction of new nuclear power reactors in the United States through billions of dollars in new federal loan guarantees for new reactors." This level of opposition was nearly identical to the 73 percent opposition level reported in the March 2011 survey.
Nearly four out of five Americans (78 percent) would favor Congress reviewing a 1957 law indemnifying nuclear power companies from most disaster clean-up costs. Instead, Americans would hold the companies "liable for all damages resulting from a nuclear meltdown or other accident." This figure is up 5 percentage points from the 73 percent support level seen in 2011.
http://www.bradenton.com/2012/03/07/3923636/survey-americans-not-warming-up.html
The sooner people worldwide know the truth, the better they can protect their children and the faster we can move on from this fraud. A lie will only slow that down.
Report Comment
@Auntie Nuke & aSpadeisa…
I agree with both of you, and your thoughts are very well spoken. I've said this before, Arnie can get through to people because of his calm, reasonable moderation.
This effort, this movement, to grow the human consciousness beyond nukes takes all of us. James2 has a contribution just as does Arnie.
Don't shoot our messengers.
Report Comment
Well… of course..they have to blame someone ..something..they'd blame their own grandmothers ..to protect their bottom line.
Report Comment
Just bought a inspector extreme will be here Monday. Can someone give me the proper methods of taking readings in snow, rain, air. will post here on enenews. I am in Northern California
Report Comment
@norbu … I'm no expert but some protocols and others using inspectors here
http://enenews.com/forum-post-radiation-monitoring-data-dec-17-2011-present
Report Comment
thank you
Report Comment
Awesome norbu!!!!!!! Northern Cali wants to know!!!!
Thanks a becquerel!
Report Comment
Still Jill & Norbu…I agree. Northern Cal definitely wants to know.
Report Comment
ON CSPAN RIGHT NOW http://www.c-span.org/Events/AEI-Hosts-Conference-Around-Anniversary-of-Japan-Disasters/10737428949/
Report Comment
Not impressed at all. I kept hoping someone in the audience would ask…or at least point out that many are STILL saying Japan needs evacuation. I/E ARNIE GUNDERSEN. I WAS going to Tweet that very QUESTION but they weren't taking tweets. F**KING DISAPPOINTMENT.
Report Comment
Just one more puppet show.
Report Comment
What Auntie Nuke said.
Report Comment
Gundersen is playing a game, partly to maintain what little access to insiders he continues to have it could be assumed. Perhaps, partly as well, he disinforms in some other more cynical role. I am personally hoping it's just the former. But radionuclide decay heat becomes fission and then back to decay heat amongst our known three coriums present under FukuDai. There isn't any getting around this. Prompt criticalities in cold substrate don't always or maybe often don't make nuclear explosions. He knows this. For whatever reasons, he is, like most bourgie types who were former insiders, not "going there". Remember the famous quote (by who escapes me) "fence sitting IS taking a position." We have self reinforcing anti-intellectual dumbing down nearly as programmatic a part of life in the U.S., at least, as if we were in a country living without any hope of freedom of speech, such as the former U.S.S.R.–such self reinforcing ignorance and sitting idly by is well fought against here on ENE by most participating bloggers/visitors. I see the most people of any blog here working their critical thinking skills to the max, which is very encouraging to me in these darkening times where much fundamental improvement in our extant human sociopolitical systems must occur in order to address current and inevitable future nuclear and other sorts of global crises.
Report Comment
Pallas89juno,
Then the game that he is playing, saying that there is not fission at Fukushima in the face of all of the Iodine 131, doesn't this help Tepco's big lie of "cold shutdown" most? Iodine 131 itself decays, of course, but doesn't this presentation help Tepco? Is supporting Tepco in the big lie worth the discussion of "traces" of radioactive waste in Tokyo?
Report Comment
It's the action of the corium…
Composition and formation
The heat for melting the reactor may originate from the nuclear chain reaction, but more commonly decay heat of the fission products contained in the fuel rods is the primary heat source. The heat production from decay heat drops quickly as the short half-life isotopes provide most of the activity decay (the actual curve is a sum of exponentials decaying at different rates). Another heat source is oxidation chemical reactions of the hot metals with atmospheric oxygen or steam.
Chain reaction and corresponding increased heat production may progress in parts of the corium if a critical mass can be achieved locally. This condition can be detected by presence of short-life fission products long after the meltdown, in amounts too high to be remaining from the controlled reaction inside the pre-meltdown reactor. As chain reactions generate high amounts of heat and fresh, highly radioactive fission products, this condition is highly undesirable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)
Report Comment
But wait a minute.. Coriums are a fictional animal of long lost legends and fables.. Coriums were last detected in the Middle Ages and have never been seen since then..So it cannot be a Corium that is to blame. They are rumored to cause 'hot' blood, wild women and loose morals.
It has been rumored that a wild Corium was seen prancing about, around the outside of someplace called Fukushiiiiimmmaaaaa, but that was never confirmed…
There are also people who say that they have seen pixies, elves and fairy's, but these reports have also not been substantiated.
In any case, even if one of these mythical creatures is spotted, they will not cause any 'immediate' harm, so everyone is safe, according to, on HIGH official pronouncements, (this is right next to God himself, or so I am told.)
Remember, cold shutdown has been achieved at FUK-U, and all women no longer want sex, because the edict has been issued from an official on HIGH. All will comply, or if not, they will face the everlasting torments of lost Coriums and be forever cast into a flaming Corium lake of H#(( for disobedience.
(This is a fictional short story and has no relationship to anything real)
Report Comment
AGR…No, no. Those are Unicorniums! Forgive me Admin, for I have sinned.
Report Comment
Love it!
dharma, you are ON tonight in spite of your blind ears and tin eye!
Report Comment
The difference between fission and decay:
Decay is the normal decaying of isotopes via half life parameters. Uranium breaks down into its children at a predictable rate with a predictable heat production and predictable radiation.
Fission as stated in industry lingo is a sustained criticality, SOP operating conditions. It requires water in sufficient quantity to slow down the neutron emissions so that the escape remains local, exciting fuel rods in the proximity. Heat is regulated with control rods, capturing enough neutrons to excite the fuel and accelerate the decay rate.
The typical balance in a BWR sustained criticality is usually in the area of ten times greater heat than decay. Both fission and decay produce I-131.
You will note that almost all of the I-131 is being found in well samples. This would indicate that the plant is contaminating the water supply. The plant is still creating a large amount of I-131, even without a sustained fission, simply from the massive amount of decay taking place in the scattered corium and flowing into the water table, thanks to the tons of water injected per hour into the mess.
If it were an atmospheric release of I-131, then you might need to point to a at least temporarily sustained criticality. But if it's showing up only in the water table or spring fed surface water, then it could just be the decay of the molten cores pouring into the water tables.
Stop and think about what will happen as this contamination spreads throughout the water table. Without safe water resources, it's not going to matter how much decontamination is done. Poisoned ground water creates a lifeless zone.
Report Comment
"capturing enough neutrons to excite the fuel and accelerate the decay rate">>
"capturing enough neutrons to regulate the act of exciting the fuel and accelerating the decay rate"
Got distracted…..
Report Comment
Good points dosdos. The coriums may have been cooled on top enough with millions of gallons of water and boron injections that the blobs may be in a decay only mode. Maybe. They tell us the fuel configuration makes it highly unlikely massive fission could occur outside the reactor vessel. But these are the same folks who said a melt-through and melt-out were impossible.
The water contamination as dosdos points out is a nightmare ecological disaster in itself. But fission may yet occur if conditions change underground and then there is of course the millions of rods still above ground that could meltdown from a second large earthquake. There is a long five to ten year time frame where this scenario may occur.
Report Comment
Dosdos,
The first example that I posted was of snow:
http://enenews.com/iodine-131-detected-in-tokyo-snow-on-jan-20
Title: Iodine-131 measured from snow in Hachioji Tokyo
Source: Fukushima Diary
Date: January 20th, 2012
SOURCE: Fukushima Diary
It snowed on 1/20/2012 around in Tokyo.
They measured Iodine-131 from the snow in Hachioji Tokyo.
Cesium-134 @ 14.9 Bq/kg
Cesium-137 @ 15.3 Bq/kg
Iodine-131 @ 20.0 Bq/kg
It sounds like you are saying that "fission" only means normal operating conditions criticality, so runaway corium criticality would not be called "fission." Yet all of the these other people, like the EPA, seem to think that Iodine-131 is simply a "fission product." Could you give us a link?
Report Comment
@NoNukes – I think we got the gist of your opinion the first 20 times you stated it on this thread alone. If you want to know the answer, write Arnie.
Report Comment
Sweet dreams to you too, Mack.
Report Comment