Gundersen: Clouds of radioactive steam should not be coming from Reactors No. 2 and 3 if in ‘cold shutdown’ (VIDEO, Part II)

Published: October 22nd, 2011 at 3:10 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
48 comments


Oct. 20 — Congratulations to the new website Fukushima Update and James Corbett for the informative October 20 interview with Fairewinds chief nuclear engineer Arnie Gundersen.

At 2:45 in (Transcript Summary)

  • TEPCO applying ‘cold shutdown’ as a misnomer…
  • What they mean is water is at 100°C…
  • Because of meltdowns, molten mass is not at 100°C yet…
  • Two week old video shows clouds of steam coming from inside units No. 2 and 3…
  • Clearly shows containment leaking…
  • “Should not be steaming if you’re in cold shutdown.”…

h/t Desert Lady, radioactive.eu.com

Part I: Nuclear Expert: Radioactivity increasing in Tokyo air filters — Not from initial blasts — Cesium is being revolitalized into air (VIDEO)

Published: October 22nd, 2011 at 3:10 pm ET
By
Email Article Email Article
48 comments

Related Posts

  1. Yomiuri: Unknown how much nuclear fuel has melted through Fukushima reactors and ‘dispersed’ — Questionable to assess that as nearly a ‘cold shutdown’ November 19, 2011
  2. NHK: Gov’t now inspecting Fukushima “to see if it can safely remain in a state of cold shutdown” (VIDEO) February 3, 2012
  3. TV: Fukushima plant is hemorrhaging radioactivity — “Scariest part of all is they don’t know where it’s coming from” — The big mystery is why contamination is coming out now in such a hurry (VIDEO) July 13, 2013
  4. TV: Workers say ground under Fukushima plant is cracking and radioactive steam is coming up — Melted core may be moving out of building (VIDEO) August 17, 2011
  5. Ex-Fukushima Daiichi engineer as ‘cold shutdown’ declared: Fuel rods still active and alive — Most worried about recriticality — Tepco must measure neutrons near core (VIDEO) April 12, 2012

48 comments to Gundersen: Clouds of radioactive steam should not be coming from Reactors No. 2 and 3 if in ‘cold shutdown’ (VIDEO, Part II)

  • Sickputer

    Now you chunkin’ in there Arnie! Give them the hot fast ball right down the middle!


    Report comment

    • kx kx

      Oh those proud mans, they done it, the big trick, endanger and poison the world to the point of taking all humanity with them.

      Let a solar flare that knock out electric grids for months, the fuel ends in those generators that survive and this will be a reality.

      Let a meteor it a ocean, make a tsunami big enough to cover all reactors in some Pacific or Atlantic coast and we are gone not from 2 or 3 continents but from the world.

      let time pass and if every 25 years 1 of those reactors does a Chernobyl and probably we don’t have time to develop that miracle technology that probably will never come due to the low level physics involved.

      probably will become much less then 25 years due to the age of the reactors and increasing number.

      in 200.000 years the 3 eye fish will repeat these words…


      Report comment

  • Bekrl Bekrl

    I trusted Arnie from day 1, and it has paid off. My wife and three kids are now safely out of Japan and in the Southern Hemisphere for good.

    Corbett’s intro to Arnie in this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yQQt3k2NeYI

    Highlights why Arnie is the top source of info for nuc problems… he’s got the balls to stand up to the industry, and to say it like it is
    (Arnie be more forthcoming about Pu dangers hanging over our heads dude!)

    Sit back with some sweet anti-nuc hip hop wiht Bekrl at http://www.bekrl.org


    Report comment

    • farawayfan farawayfan

      You did the absolute right thing…not that you need me to say that, but KUDOS for protecting your family, even though it was not the easy thing, but the right thing to do.

      Heinlein would applaud you. So do I.


      Report comment

  • Whoopie Whoopie

    Trolls ARE out in full force if your interested. I’m in and out today so not much time for their CRAPOLA
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/30/japan-earthquake-2011-gov_n_989682.html


    Report comment

  • dpl dpl

    Correct,there is no cold shutdown.
    Now also tell us the rest of the story,that it is impossible to cleanup the core using the current process using the water filter. That they have chosen to contaminate earth, air and water just to decrease the rate of release of radiation but this will go on forever. Dig out the entire mess seal it in lead put onto barges and sink it in deep ocean cracks. Do this and you may live, refuse and condemn your people to certain death. The japanese are a bunch of punks and that goes for your fucking POS emperor too.


    Report comment

    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      “The japanese are a bunch of punks and that goes for your fucking POS emperor too.”

      - 1.000.000


      Report comment

      • tony wilson

        The japanese are a bunch of punks…

        hold on..wait just a cotton picking minute here,those words are hurtful and offensive words.
        ex premier no khan do and the new guy really no really not a lot i khan do do either his successor are working 24 7 too get those chimneys up.
        so they can vent vitamins and minerals goodness into the jet stream and around the world forever.
        a japanese version of the coke commercial from the 70s i’d like to teach the world to sing.
        bringing the world together through meet ups in cancer clinics and hospitals.
        this is all being done at japans expense,no charge can you believe free.
        the country that keeps on giving and will still be giving it big time even when all the population of the island are dead.

        the japanese have always been a proud nation of sheep ready too believe whatever thief or corporate punk or yakuza liar is in power.
        if the bossman says everyting is good and safe then it must be.


        Report comment

  • jwfuki

    I agree with you 100%, but I think you should refrain from “sugar coating” your thoughts….


    Report comment

    • Sickputer

      Yes… I try to practice the school of thought where the only people you need to get even with are the ones who helped you.

      Still it is hard not to get angry at purveyors of invisible deadly toxins.

      As for the migrating fuel mass… There does not exist a technology to dig up and encase the coriums. Even Chernobyl’s concrete dome is now severely radiated, crumbling and leaking radiation. It awaits a bigger dome to be pulled over the current dome… And who knows if that will be the last dome needed.

      Short of some future advances in radiation remediation, the only way to clear out the coriums is with shaped-charge nuclear bombs destroying the island and blowing everything into the ocean. That plan will probably be held in reserve if things really worsen at Fukushima Daiichi. Tepco workers permanently unable to step foot on the island perhaps because of tremendous out of control emissions.


      Report comment

  • arclight arclight

    food for thought…

    10, 000 years in the future, a warning rings out from the far-distant nuclear past.

    Based on genuine US government research into how to warn future generations of the presence of radioactive waste.

    Beyond

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnCfYlLgnD4&feature=player_embedded#!


    Report comment

    • farawayfan farawayfan

      This is what, as a child, told me nuclear power was a complete joke. Any system that requires warning those 10,000 or more years from now about danger is a morally bankrupt way of BOILING WATER.

      How pathetic this is even a debate.


      Report comment

      • Steven Steven

        Absolutely farawayfan, right on the money there. It’s not even remotely up for discussion, not something that requires the to-and-fro of a debate. This isn’t one of those subjective ideas like politics or religion. It is an absolute in logic with no acceptable argument, due to the adverse impact on everyone, including (unfortunately) those against nuclear power. Our society has evolved to the point where smokers don’t even dare ask ‘do you mind if I smoke?’. Fukushima doesn’t ask either. It just puffs away regardless, month after damn month, probably year after year. The nuke plants are blowing deadly smoke in all our faces, and we already have a precedent in law to guide our thinking on it.


        Report comment

  • Sickputer

    Another comment about the radioactive steam clouds. Last night there were several hours of massive steam vapors.. possibly on the top ten list of worst releases for a single day. I am guessing the steam did not dissipate on it’s own, but rather the kamikaze Tepco fire brigade used their massive long range water cannons to flood whatever orifaces were gushing.

    So they have pretty well stopped the worst of the steam emissions from last night. But how many more tons of contaminated water did they create in their desperate efforts to quench the nuclear reactions? And when will they run out of places to store the irradiated water? It is rapidly becoming obvious they are not stabilizing the situation, but rather just responding to the frequent fission cycles of the corium masses.


    Report comment

  • Sickputer

    Oh yes, the police constable gives lip service for a diagnosis of botulism.

    Joke from the irradiated citizens: “Canuck scientist bureaucrat says: “What, you want me to do a necropsy on that dead bird? I am too busy avoiding testing salmon to even consider adding another duty for my job!”


    Report comment

  • Sickputer

    Sorry… I am on my phone, but I swear I was in the right thread…

    My followup was to James’ post:

    News story about dead Birds.
    Here is something that has got us concerned.
    No doubt it is from the toxic stuff from the gulf. But is it?
    http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1074385–thousands-of-dead-birds-wash-ashore-at-wasaga-beach?bn=1


    Report comment

  • lokay5

    Technically, the reactors ARE in “Cold Shutdown”!

    But the FUEL isn’t! And with the fuel many hundeds(?) of feet below the reactor vessels, they’re “cold”.

    Semantics. Ya gotta love it!


    Report comment

    • Misitu

      The corium is likely not far below the surface, if the heat from it has hardened the surrounding mudstones into mica schists and the like.

      Just trying to keep focus. Welcome any more informed correction to this, of course, preferably with matching numbers.


      Report comment

      • ion jean ion jean

        On September 20, 2011, Hiroaki Koide, assistant professor at Kyoto University’s Research Reactor Institute, estimated that the nuclear fuel rods may be 12 meters deep under ground at reactor 1-3.


        Report comment

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      Technically the ‘reactors’ are not ‘reactors’ anymore because the fuel has melted out and structuraly they are not intact anymore. You could say, ‘what was once a working reactor’ is at or around 100c, but really, is an airplane an airplane if it has no wings?


      Report comment

    • tony wilson

      Technically, the reactors ARE in “Cold Shutdown : )

      as the announcer said in the 70s..
      ladies and gentlemen elvis and his backing band the red hot corium magma have left the building…


      Report comment

  • kx kx

    Oh those proud mans, they done it, the big trick, endanger and poison the world to the point of taking all humanity with them.

    Let a solar flare that knock out electric grids for months, the fuel ends in those generators that survive and this will be a reality.

    Let a meteor it a ocean, make a tsunami big enough to cover all reactors in some Pacific or Atlantic coast and we are gone not from 2 or 3 continents but from the world.

    let time pass and if every 25 years 1 of those reactors does a Chernobyl and probably we don’t have time to develop that miracle technology that probably will never come due to the low level physics involved.

    probably will become much less then 25 years due to the age of the reactors and increasing number.

    in 200.000 years the 3 eye fish will repeat these words.


    Report comment

  • ion jean ion jean

    How’s about an even simpler argument now to the NRC about ending all nuclear power…

    Was Fukushima a part of our nuclear power plants’ “worst-case scenario” engineering models? No?

    Has a successful clean-up been implemented in a timeframe that protects public health? No? Does your present technology have one in mind to help the Japanese people out? No?

    Is the American public still being exposed to radioactive pollution from an NPP meltthrough China Syndrome surpassing Chernobyl thousands of miles away? Yes?

    Can you protect us from that? No?

    SO NOW WE THE PEOPLE MUST SHUT DOWN EVERY NUCLEAR PLANT IN THE U.S.. ALSO ALL NUCLEAR WEAPONS MANUFACTURE AND NUCLEAR MEDICINE, NUCLEAR NAVY AND NASA, AND STAND WITH MANY OTHER COUNTRIES TO DO THE SAME.

    And make them clean up the mess they’ve made like the good mother that lives in all of us!

    SHUT IT DOWN SHUT IT ALL DOWN
    THE REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN


    Report comment

    • ion jean ion jean

      There, I just did for NO PAY what various federal acronymical agencies charge the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of dollars we don’t have for, to contemplate this and arrive at the same conclusion over cocktails and golf games at a week-long seminar!


      Report comment

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      “….AND NUCLEAR MEDICINE…..”

      Your not realy suggesting we eliminate x-rays as a medical diagnosis tool are you? Because if you are, that will never happen. Lets ask cancer survivors if they feel radiation therapy should be eliminated. Any here? What do you think? Cards patients, should we eliminate Radionuclide ventriculography as a diagnostic tool? Some of these tools have saved my own life, being a cards patient I, my wife and children were quite happy they found the problem before I died. Nope, no support to end nuke medicine from me….. And no, I’m not pro-nuclear energy, just glad to be alive….


      Report comment

      • ion jean ion jean

        OK, my own mother received radiation treatment for cervical cancer and it scarred surrounding organs so badly, she developed all kinds of internal bleeding and polyps and tumors about 20 years later, which eventually did her in. Still think radiation treatment is OK? Ask my friend with skin cancer in his late 60s who was zapped with 600 Roentgens as a teenager to treat adenoids (most of the other kids died who had that done at the same time)

        Then, between dental exrays and CT scans, no doctor has ever asked me how much radiation I’ve been exposed to in my history before zapping me…like myself, everyone on this site is ducking fallout and these procedures alone have given me more exposure than most of my environmental man-made exposure.


        Report comment

        • ion jean ion jean

          I also know in retrospect that the very substances which caused my teeth to need xrays and later caused an infection requiring CT scan and surgery and themnselves entwined in the nuclear industry:

          Fluoride and Strontium 90…research and CHECK it out!

          fluoridealert.org and nuclearcrimes.org

          I think you were either very lucky or very connected with God and his angels!


          Report comment

          • ion jean ion jean

            Typo correction…”are themselves intertwined in the nuclear industry”

            (fluoride from the necessity of gaseous diffusion…research its history and why it got put in our drinking water) (strontium from fallout in my food milk air and water)

            Both of these take up residence in your teeth while kicking calcium out


            Report comment

        • StPaulScout StPaulScout

          You are free to refuse treatment. Don’t want dental xrays? Tell them you refuse them. No one has ever MADE you be exosed to medical radiation. You made the appointments and kept them. Blame yourself. Me? I prefer to keep them as an available option, thats all. And I know people that have had very successful radiation therapy for breast cancer that have gone into full 5 years plus remition. My brothers sister is one. I have a sister-in-law (wifes brothers wife) currenty being treated for inflamatory breast cancer and she has received radiation therapy. She is doing very well so far. Sorry about your mother, but just because you are bitter doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t take advantage of one of the greatest medical breakthroughs in the history of mankind, x-rays that is.


          Report comment

  • StillJill StillJill

    I am surviving Steve Job’s cancer–and I agree that nuclear medicine should be shut down. Cancer communes will spring up,…after TPTB are dead or bunkered. Cancer is FAR more treatable with herbs than rads! Period. For diagnosis,….there are at least a dozen natural ways to find out if your body is toxin laden, full of fungus (cancer), yeast, choking, feeding glucose, etc,….
    Yes,…I would miss (somewhat), the diagnostic power of nuclear medicine,…but it’s havoc on the body,…even in the best of cases,…is NOT WORTH IT-IMO.


    Report comment

    • selfsovereign

      +100 StillJill and Ion Jean


      Report comment

    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Another kind of diagnostic power…I’m impressed!
      “Dogs smell cancer in patient’s breath”
      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_dog_cancer.html


      Report comment

      • StillJill StillJill

        Absolutely B&B,…the same with cadaver dogs,….they can smell death, and cancer.

        My Physical therapist did her internship at NIH I believe. They made her do a rotation at a cancer center, in-patient rehab place. She says she can ‘smell cancer’. I saw her in 2009, before my diagnosis,…she smelled cancer on me.


        Report comment

    • ion jean ion jean

      Thanks SJ, you’re so correct about herbs, and nutrition is key…sugar is poison! I love it like everyone else, but now try to avoid it, or at least substitute with honey and maple syrup whenever possible.

      I consume mega amounts of culinary healing herbs in the meals I cook for my family every day

      We drink echinacea and lemon balm tea, among others, for infection…I will hopefully never have to take an antibiotic again from a pharmacy

      My child, thank God, has never needed to take one. And I’ll never vaccinate again after seeing symptoms in the autism spectrum surface, then disappear as we ate better and stayed away from shots and fluoride.


      Report comment

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      Jill – And you received your PhD from what medical university?


      Report comment

  • StPaulScout StPaulScout

    If people here want to not vacinate their children, not be x-rayed, not receive radiation therapy, eat herbs as treatment for whatever, go ahead. Knock yourself out with alternative medicines. Just don’t try and tell the rest of us we can’t because that will get you no where real quick. I decide for me and mine, you decide for you and yours. Prety simple ain’t it.


    Report comment

    • ion jean ion jean

      When people walk past me on the street emitting isotopes from thyroid treatment and I don’t have my geiger counter on me, and their doctor’s tell them “it’s okay, just stay at least 6 feet away from other people for a few days, but I don’t know them so what do they care if they bump into me…you get the point? And when our kids walk past the diagnostics center buildings and their machines haven’t been checked for leaks in awhile. This imposes radioactive pollution on other people! So no, it’s not free choice with this dangerous technology.


      Report comment

      • StPaulScout StPaulScout

        Drink well water, home school, stay away from other people, move to the middle of no-where, don’t go to the big city. You choose not to. Flouride in water pre-dates my ass by the way. Vacines save lives, by the millions. You want to live in a world where infant mortality approaches 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 percent go for it. By the way, do you drive? Use electricity? Air conditioning? Wear clothing? Shoes? Belts? Own a refridgerator, furnace, tv, phone? Obviously you own a computer. Clean up your own act, then preach.


        Report comment

    • Bobby1

      That’s the point, you decide. The patient should be in charge of the medical decision-making for him or herself. If a patient objects to radiation diagnosis or treatment, he or she has the right to ask the doctor about alternatives that do not involve radiation. Since doctors are ignoring the radioactive contamination of the environment, and dangers of further irradiation, the patient must take charge.

      Stop blindly obeying doctors. Learn about your illness, make the doctors help you and work for you.


      Report comment

    • beamofthewave

      You people tell others what to do all the time. Corporations use mercury in those flu shots and all other shots for little kids. Does it really take a doctor to know that mercury is bad for people? corporations do it because it is cheap and then it stays in the body forever because the liver doesnt know how to get it out. And you people get the law to say I cant get my child enrolled in school unless she takes those poisonous shots. Then you people get fluoride put in all the water systems so I have to buy distilled water to avoid drinking it. Fluoride is poisonous, Hello, again you people are making decisions constantly that force me into compliance with your crazy ideas that poisons dont hurt people.


      Report comment

  • SnorkY2K

    People need to learn that Pu is not the worst and quit repeating the meme. Instead start referring to the family of transuranic byproducts. One thing that many people fail to grasp is that most of the transuranics including plutonium do not stay the same as they were when they were created and that those products also have their own consequences. Some of the quick decaying products can be solid, then a gas, then on to a new state. Containment is difficult when an atom goes from being in an ionic bond to a noble gas not only creating a radioactive issue but a freed radical hungry for a reaction as well. Another compounding issue is that the reactions do not occur at the same time so there is no way to sequester the byproducts.


    Report comment