Gundersen: Medical doctors ordered to not tell patients their problems are related to Fukushima radiation — Of course they’re going to say nobody died… the data records are distorted — People of Japan are essentially a scientific experiment, but nobody’s reporting results (AUDIO)

Published: September 11th, 2013 at 10:37 am ET
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Title: #117: Olympic Insanity + If Gundersen were in Charge at Fukushima
Source: Nuclear Hotseat
Host: Libbe HaLevy
Date: Sept. 10, 2013

INTERVIEW: Former nuclear industry insider Arnie Gundersen of Fairewinds Energy Education paints a clear picture of the current state of problems at Fukushima Daiichi… and then explains what he would do if he were in charge of the disaster site.

At 41:30 in

Full interview available here

Published: September 11th, 2013 at 10:37 am ET
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65 comments

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65 comments to Gundersen: Medical doctors ordered to not tell patients their problems are related to Fukushima radiation — Of course they’re going to say nobody died… the data records are distorted — People of Japan are essentially a scientific experiment, but nobody’s reporting results (AUDIO)

  • mairs mairs

    I was reading about Japan's health system, and all fees are strictly regulated by the government, and they are uniform across the country. Physicians negotiate with the government for fees and services every two years I believe, so I assume there's a physician's association that does this. So what would happen to a doctor who didn't toe the line? I'd like to know that. Surely they've been threatened with something like termination and they'll never be able to work again. They can't all be sociopaths can they?


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    • jec jec

      Japan's OBAMACARE…same same. Forces the doctors to 'toe the government line." This is the worst part of socialized medicine..the lies to support government sponsored coverups…


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      • We Not They Finally

        [REMOVED] Most of Obamacare does not even go into effect until next year. And you've been screaming loudly that you DON'T want millions of uninsured Americans to get ANY care? Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! What kind of a person are YOU??

        [Before clicking 'Submit Comment', please make sure it's: ... 4) Not insulting, rude or hateful - No personal attacks]


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        • We Not They Finally

          Unfortunately, jec, OUR country seems to be full of inhumane idiots. Can you at least make SOME effort not to join them?


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        • ftlt

          We: Thank you… The libertarian mantras on here are stunning at times


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          • ftlt

            While not of fan of corpo run national healthcare… It is a step forward until a quality single payer system can go into effect..

            Meanwhile, the greedy and inefficient private insurance sector will be allowed to skim profits from a program that protects us all..

            For those who think medicine is private in this country,
            they had better take a look at the medical education and pharmaceutical industries… Almost all (90% ++) of doctors educations are paid for by the people and most drugs are developed with public funding…

            I hear the oft repeated litany of medical doctors complaining about the high cost of their educations – when in fact, they have won a lottery (only in most cases as official insider sanctioned ring bumping is allowed for admissions) to get into med schools ( all are publicly funded – even private schools) where they will have paid far less than 10% of the real costs of a medical education that insures them wealth and status beyond that the common man…

            A classic case of socialism for the rich scheme… And of course, these same doctors expect a system of the free enterprise for the poor to receive their future services..

            DING DONG!!!!

            Have some more Kool-Aid, gang… This is not off topic – it is all the same problem… It is FUFU


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        • jec jec

          Its the danger of the rules being put into place. The idea is correct, the implementation is the error. Dont slam the message–I HAVE A DAUGHTER WITH RADIATION CAUSED THRYOID CANCER–and it was not caught in time..she will/is not be able to PAY for her insurance now the company is dropping coverages. We are all worried. As soon, We Are Not They Finally, YOUR daughter or son has this kind of trouble, then slam the message. Are you covered with insurance, will you be later? So dont ask what kind of person I am, we are living with a nightmare caused by government(s) ignoring fallout dangers.

          Back to the topic of doctors with government controlled medicine. Radiation caused cancer is a wild disease, can be hard to control and treat. To ignore the cause(Fukushima radiation) could mean children/patients may not get the aggressive treatment they need. Then when the numbers climb, waiting lists will extend to the point of critical. The need for doctors, hospitals and care will escalate, then rationing will occur naturally. For children, who seldom get thyroid cancers/abnormalities, monitoring over a year/several year time span is dangerous. Cheap solution, and dangerous. Is this be part of the medical legacy for Fukushima?


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          • ftlt

            Jec: Sorry to hear that… But being harsh, welcome to the condition of most Americans… (assuming you are American)

            Most American are under covered or not covered at all… Is that their own fault or fair????

            Private healthcare is bad for the majority of Americans

            National Healthcare was an attempt to remedy this..

            Sadly, it could have become a decent system if the reactionaries and moneyed interests had stayed out of the its design process – No way that was going to be allowed to happen… Too much money there to be made for that to happen.. The Obamacare, we got in the end, was the result of greed – not from the concept of government public healthcare system…

            Medical, housing and food security are rights that should not be ignored.. Not matter what your social condition is IMO…

            You are right about the upswing of radiation effects to be witnessed in the near future..

            We were just recovering from the open air testing of nuke warheads … Now, here we go again… This radiation affects animal populations as well… Bird populations will be devastated by this… The birds finally are back now after being really impacted by the radiation of the tests and Ag chemicals.. Enjoy them while you can – their numbers will soon begin to drop again rapidly..


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          • We Not They Finally

            jec, very sorry about your daughter. No one should have to go through that. But you do need a BACK-UP, don't you? Obamacare is WAY far from perfect — partly because Obama left WAY too wide a time lapse so that private ins cos have jacked up rates, affecting the whole market. But sick children should be covered WITHOUT QUESTION. And at least we are getting closer to that.

            In Japan, the doctors seem to be institutionally forced to skew statistics and lie to patients. I genuinely hope that Gundersen can bring Japanese doctors to the U.S. who have confided in him. In a culture like Japan, so addicted to "saving face," it seems incredible that a component of that is NOT shame. It seems to be more about looking good and going in lockstep culturally. But the poor people over there taking the brunt of that. What a tragedy.


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        • Anthony Anthony

          How is this not disrespectful and attacking of you? I don't think jec is anything like you are asserting. Shocking!


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        • Jec has a right to his opinions without being called a fool, inhumane, or just miseducated?? Decorum please here at Enenews. Private vs public medicare is a hot topic in USA. There are benefits to both. It is a debate not a name calling fight in the school yard. Peace


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          • ftlt

            Mark: I believe in free speech… You are right about the use of the word "fool"… I do think We may have over reacted in using the word…

            I think, it was out of frustration to the vitriolic vapid mean spirited selfish right wing (a long long list) attacks that we all meet in the media and our lives over critical issues in our society…

            Spouted canned propaganda that is so twisted, it makes it hard not to react when you hear it..

            I still thank him for confronting the spirit of the post though..


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      • SS4U SS4U

        @ jec: you need to keep your ignorant political unrelated to the topic comments off this site.
        Healthcare reform aka: " obamacare " has nothing to do whatsoever with fukushima no matter how you may try to twist it.


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        • ftlt

          SS$U: I believe, his thoughts do link to FUFU – whether, I agree with them or not..

          FUFU at its very core (hahaha) is a political problem as much as it is a real life problem…

          Health issues in Japan around FUFU are clearly taking on a political dimension – the core of this article being discussed

          Certainly, the reactions to FUFU at all levels have been and will continue to be political … Something of this scale are always dealt with politically..

          What we are discussing here is the right or wrong of political driven health policy in Japan… In my mind, Japan does not stand alone at FUFU… Clearly, Jec's problem points this out in specific detail..

          FUFU and the nuclear issue is a global issue – in this case, a global health issue..


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    • hbjon hbjon

      There are strong forces that pull a diagnostic decision one way or another. That strong force is simply what pays more. If a cancer diagnosis pays the most, guess what the diagnosis will be? And the reason given for your disease is that you failed to smile enough. Sadly, it is that simple. Humanity has jumped the shark.


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      • We Not They Finally

        There is always some truth in that where money is involved. But cutting costs is HARDLY all at play here. It's also Japanese arrogance and their historical willingness to sacrifice their own. I had read that at the end of WWII, there were 50,000 Japanese war orphans, so they cut their food rations to starve them out. Didn't want angry children to grow up into angry citizens. A Japanese woman in the U.S. told us that she grew up in Japan, was there at the end of WWII, and if upon surrender, the Emperor had told the whole country to go commit suicide, they would have done it.

        And by now that was a long time ago. But when people simply DO NOT CHANGE, there are heavy reasons engrained in the culture. This is a historically cruel authoritarian culture who teaches superiority and sacrifices their weakest members.

        Again, history is a big long place and I'm sure that A LOT has changed in Japan. But if you told me that they don't let babies deformed at birth live, I'd tend to believe it. Though yes, I'm fine with anyone out there proving this right or wrong. I'd actually like to be proven wrong.


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        • We Not They Finally

          Also, hbjon, well over a year back, they found that more than one-third of the children in that area already had growths on their thyroids. But the parents were stopped from getting second opinions and told just to bring the child back in two years. And what abut the 60% rate of DIABETES in children under twelve, which by now has to be even worse. You'd think that they would at least widely train parents to administer insulin. Untreated diabetes is a killer.

          There is no way that MONEY ALONE causes that kind of criminal treatment of one's own children.


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          • hbjon hbjon

            We Not They Finally, That last sentence where you say "There is no way that MONEY ALONE causes that kind of criminal treatment of one's own children." They should not have to use a WITCH DOCTORS solution to their childrens health situations. I don't engage in a debate about diabetes being a killer. Scaring someone enough to take your chemicals as a solution to their health situation is wrong. Then when your chemicals fail they blame it on stress. They found that it would be better for the 'condition of Man' if disease were left on its own and they found that it would be better to sink all the pills and pharma to the bottom of the sea. Of course, that would be very bad for the fishes.


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        • ftlt

          We: Hard to remote a mote in someone's eye when you have a beam in thy own…

          Amerika has the same culture… It is called the human condition..

          I could more easily point out the glaring sameness of our culture to Japan's than the differences if you want me to..

          You are looking out.. Turn around and look inward here at home without the patriotic BS coated rose colored glasses on and what I just said, becomes quite evident. We are the same..


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          • soern

            i like your post.
            Human beeing is the opposite of humanity.
            Just few realize the difference and even less can afford
            to say it.
            When now Japan commits mass suicide it is Not astonoshing at all.
            Sorry to the many victims who will loose their luck.
            Don't worry next life can be better.
            Imho


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    • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

      Hi mairs, it reminds me of the doctor's gag order in the US concerning possibly fracking-related illnesses:
      http://www.npr.org/2012/05/17/152268501/pennsylvania-doctors-worry-over-fracking-gag-rule

      :-(


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  • Well, if your boss says cover it all up, and you refuse, what happens to you?

    The boss controls your paycheck and whether you work or not.

    The same dynamic is true in the nuclear industry. NO ONE who is critical of the nuclear industry keeps their job. NO ONE who is critical gets any funding for research.

    Why is this so hard to believe? It is just standard operating procedure after every nuclear accident.


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    • hbjon hbjon

      I don't know if there were claims that smiling was protection from radiation. Instead, I think the explanation for a victims disease will revolve around the ridiculous notion that smiling may have prevented it. Now, that notion comes from the ridiculous idea that stress causes disease. How does one reduce stress? Smile? I think not. Unless you replace the word "stress" with disease, cancer, or radiation. In essence (please pay close attention to this part), stress is the pathogen, antigen, and toxin that enters our biology. Proper definitions of relevant terms is important to the understanding of a situation. There is only one true way to search for and discover the truth.


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  • We Not They Finally

    Yes. I had read early on that the doctors at Fukushima Medical University were threatened with dismissal if they mentioned radiation to patients. And that when a deformed child was born, it was just tallied as a miscarriage or a stillbirth and the mother was not even allowed to see the child.

    This is "anecdotal," but someone seriously has to get to the WOMEN in that area — about what is happening with their children's health and with their pregnancies.

    What a brutal cruel culture. Every culture has its down side, I guess. But this is just brutal and cruel. And homicidal. And suicidal.


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  • We Not They Finally

    Arnie needs to gather up some whistleblower doctors from Japan and bring them here.


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  • ftlt

    I really do not think that it matters from a medical data standpoint… The actuarial data of the affected locals will be pretty clear over time as to what has occurred medically.. The spike in cancer or heart issues will be clear

    My statement above does not speak to how heinous the policy of not disclosing exposure related causes and problems to locals though..

    New Age Fascism is just great – isn't it???

    We do the same here all the time… From GMO foods to pollution to bad prescription meds to sugar to pesticides and on and on… Where there is profit to made and a population to cowed – the best policy is always to lie.. A time proven tactic..

    Let's have a good war that will solve everything … And more sports on TV and talk radio of course..


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    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      Not sure the data will ever be clear. Look at Chernobyl; estimates of deaths and impact on ecology vary widely. In fifty years when the greater impact is seen, it will be too late to influence change which is needed now….no, 40 years ago


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      • ftlt

        Code: I happen to think the actuarial data from Chernobyl is quite clear.

        From even the "realistic" low to the moderate to the high end the data is all shocking.

        It is hard to quantify things like this. Therefore the large discrepancies in numbers we see – after all, it is a political issue.

        Methodology drives all in the collecting of data.

        The war dead of WW2 or Iraq spring to mind. Wild differences depending on who is counting and what is counted as a war death and future early deaths.

        The data of Chernobyl is clearly being ignored by powerful forces. And "these force's" cooked false data is used to replace the real honest data. We know that. Japan knows that.

        If Japan or any Govt decides to ignore known historical results of radiation exposure there is little to be done about it.

        *See the cooked unemployment statistics in the USA – A classic case of political statistical hubris.

        Point here, Statistical tooling happens all the time everywhere.

        Adding, my point was only that little to nothing is being lost now from a future sample for statistical purposes regarding FUFU, as statistics by definition is a record of known results over a given time. The time frame here is the lives of those exposed to radiation.


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        • ftlt

          The real problem/issue is that of removing the people from the threat radioactive exposure and telling them the medical truth to aid them in their understanding of the level of threat that is present now and later in their lives..

          The future health statistics have nothing to do with this problem/issue… They will be just the record of what occurred there. Again, the numbers will flow out regardless of how they are recorded… The future observed spikes of particular illnesses and resulting deaths will reflect the statistical truth


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          • or-well or-well

            ftlt, re this good point – "The real problem/issue is that of removing the people from the threat radioactive exposure and telling them the medical truth to aid them in their understanding of the level of threat that is present now and later in their lives…."

            It's what the authorities don't want/have never wanted to do, anywhere there's nuke plants, nuke spills or nuke disasters, whether in Japan or anywhere else.

            Japan has it's nuclear refugees (and IMO many who should be) who cannot be hidden, but who can be neglected and shunted out of public dialogue.

            The farce of "decontamination" proceeds, behind schedule, to continue until people are economically pressured to return to officially declared "safe" areas.


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Same in the U.S. (from bomb testing). Lung cancers, thyroid removal, leukemia …large increases in cancers caused the end to nuclear testing.

    It's ongoing, happening all around me, and especially sad when it's young people.


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  • timemachine2020 timemachine2020

    I just saw where over 3000 evacuees from the radioactive exclusion zones in Japan have died since 3/11/01. The Japanese are claiming stress and suicide as the causes. I imagine if I knew I was dying from radiation sickness I would want to check out as well. The Japanese Government will do no better than Tepco has. Both are corrupt and evil LIARS. Multiply any admitted problems at Fuku by either party by 10 and you will be closer to the truth. If those Plutonium breeder rods in sfp 4 get exposed to the atmosphere, the previous problems we have seen so far will seem like a flat tire on a hot summer day. Tepco has now caused so much contamination at the site from mismanagement there it is becoming harder and harder every day to remediate anything there. First and foremost they need to remove all that super high radioactive water from those unstable leaking tanks before one topples and makes it even harder or impossible to deal with anything. Take that ICE WALL from hell idea money(which will never work – Hell freeze over? Don't think so – coriums and fissure vents) and use it to put all that hot(rad wise) water in double hull oil tankers offshore and build a decontamination ship to process, filter and then dump back into ocean. Liquefaction is rapidly becoming a major threat with all the backed up runoff water the last wall they built is trapping on site. Will the proud Japanese ever admit that this is out of their control and request all possible international help…


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    • Anthony Anthony

      Why haven't their lives been financially restored since the disaster? Thats the crime. Yes the tsunami came through and ruined their homesteads and businesses, but the ensuing radiation contamination sealed their local fate for centuries to the negative. The company tepco to the degree that they contributed to the outcome are responsible to restore the neighborhoods and citizens their accident displaced. The govt approved every rotten stinking step with tepco as they headed right into this result. By not helping them now and getting them out of cardboard cities they are re-victimizing these poor tax paying people horribly again.

      If this was happening to my Mother I would be losing my mind with anger. Its not right.


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    • mopar69 mopar69

      "…have died since 3/11/01…" Considering your count (reference source?) contains deaths before 3/11/11, can you clarify your assertions?


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  • BreadAndButter BreadAndButter

    For quite some time, I followed the rising pneumonia cases in Japan after 3/11. Cases were skyrocketing in 2011 (light blue graph) compared to the previous 10 years, and 2012 looked even worse (red graph).
    So they simply stopped reporting in fall 2012:
    http://idsc.nih.go.jp/idwr/kanja/weeklygraph/18myco-e.html
    This is an official website, and I never found the data being moved to another site…it just stopped. :-( Guess why?

    *peace


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  • rockyourworld

    if your boss says cover it up? you mean the u.s.govt? the boss of the world? wouldnt want to hurt the rich people or investors who have their junk products made by japanese slave laborers


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  • or-well or-well

    We are ALL a medical, nuclear science experiment, some more, some less, depending on where we live/lived.
    We have been since the dawn of the nuclear age.
    We are ALL also a chemicalised environment health experiment.
    Does anyone think the official data accurately attributes consequences to cause?
    Does anyone really think this is unique to Japan?


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  • rockyourworld

    if our govt doesnt know more than tepco or japans govt, what does that say about our govt?


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Not very bright…but highly educated?


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  • Good job Mr. Gundersen.

    The Nuclear Industry cannot operate on truth or trust.
    We know that now.

    The Nuclear Industry will never be able to claim cost efficiency. Especially after 311.
    We know this now too.

    That's why they must ALL be STOPPED immediately.
    Anything less makes one a traitor to the planet.


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  • Johnny Blade

    This issue is neither new nor has the practice been limited to the Japanese victims of Fukushima & the nuke industry. I'm pretty sure some older posts of my own detailing my wife's visits to the oncology dept. at the hospital treating her cancer could attest to this facet of the meddling in cancer victims & their health care providers personal affairs when it comes to the source of their illnesses! I managed to spot damning evidence by accident when I bumped the mouse on the computer that had my spouses file up while we waited for the head Oncologist in the examination room! I've carried a USB stick drive with me every time we've visited since then so I can download the portions of her records that are sealed even from our view should the opportunity to document the data ever arise again. The ONLY company logo I've ever seen on the machines that use radiation to diagnose and/or treat cancers,etc. has been GE/Toshiba! Considering that at the time of viewing of her records usually hidden from our view I also noted that new,more advanced machines were in short supply and on back order for extended periods which allowed me to conclude that confirming the source of a patients cancer to be from radioactive environmental pollution caused by the failure of GE equipment while hoping to procure badly needed new equipment via GE's medical imaging/nuclear medicine division wouldn't exactly be in their best interest! :( Just another example of a FUKuD-up reality! :|


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  • jk641

    Forget the Arab Spring, we need a Japanese Spring.
    Japanese need to overthrow their evil, corrupt government.

    All this covering-up and trying to fudge the numbers is really short-sighted.
    So you want to maintain order and protect the country's economy in the short-term. But you're basically dooming your future!

    What about your children? And your children's children?
    Don't people have a right to know the truth and take measures to protect their health and future?
    You don't care about them, as long as you can claim that the country's GDP grew by a certain percentage during your tenure, and you can save face??

    Japan, impeach these scum.


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    You are very wise but it seems mopar is having a problem and/or does not know how to do/complete his/her own research.

    Look behind every curtain purposely drawn closed to keep the bright light out and that is were the truth is hiding/being hidden by others…


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    oops..You are "all" very wise…


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  • jk641

    Sorry if I came off as too harsh.
    I'm not blaming just Japan.
    The worldwide news blackout on Fukushima has been just despicable.
    The nuclear industry and many governments around the world (pretty much every country in the world that wants to expand nuclear power, and there are a <i>lot</i> of them) are all complicit.
    But I do wonder if the lies and cover-up would've been just as bad if something like this had happened in another country..

    Citizens around the world must unite and educate each other on Fukushima and the extreme dangers of nuclear power, and <i>demand changes</i>. There's no other way.
    We can't trust our governments.

    ENENEWS, keep up your great work.


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  • nedlifromvermont

    Now that is a testimonial, jk641!! Thank you for chiming in … it does feel good to be surrounded by a community seeking the truth of this disaster!!! Stay tuned!!

    peace, bro'


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    It begins here..

    "I swear by Apollo the physician, and Asclepius, and Hygieia and Panacea and all the gods and goddesses as my witnesses, that, according to my ability and judgement, I will keep this Oath and this contract:"

    And ends here..

    "So long as I maintain this Oath faithfully and without corruption, may it be granted to me to partake of life fully and the practice of my art, gaining the respect of all men for all time. However, should I transgress this Oath and violate it, may the opposite be my fate."

    "may the opposite be my fate."–

    No one is impervious to the effects of radiation.
    Not even the false gods of the medical profession.

    I hope they enjoy the cancer cocktails..


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