Published: August 7th, 2013 at 9:28 pm ET
|
Title: There is no way to stop Fukushima radioactive water leaking into the Pacific – expert
Source: Voice of Russia
Author: Evgeny Sukhoi
Date: August 7, 2013
There is no way to stop Fukushima radioactive water leaking into the Pacific – expert
Arnold Gundersen, Fairewinds Associates: [...] we are contaminating the Pacific Ocean which is extraordinarily serious.
Evgeny Sukhoi: Is there anything that can be done with that, I mean with the ocean?
Gundersen: Frankly, I don’t believe so. I think we will continue to release radioactive material into the ocean for 20 or 30 years at least. They have to pump the water out of the areas surrounding the nuclear reactor. But frankly, this water is the most radioactive water I’ve ever experienced [...] there is an extraordinary amount of water and even if they build the wall, ground waters enter the Pacific through underwater sources. It doesn’t have to run of [sic] the top of the surface into the Pacific. It can enter the underwater sources as well. [...]
Published: August 7th, 2013 at 9:28 pm ET
|
sending...
"there is an extraordinary amount of water and even if they build the wall, ground waters enter the Pacific through underwater sources."
So what is the underground barrier? Have they ever built a wall?
Report comment
‘Great wall of Fukushima’ to be built underground? — Structure around reactors proposed
http://enenews.com/great-wall-fukushima-be-built-underground-structure-around-reactors-proposed
Report comment
100 foot deep wall at Fukushima plant still being built, says Tepco — Trying to keep underground contamination from ocean — Years from completion?
October 25, 2012
http://enenews.com/tepco-100-foot-deep-underground-wall-being-built-to-try-and-stop-water-from-seeping-out-of-plant-and-into-ocean-will-take-until-mid-2014
Report comment
100 foot deep wall at Fukushima plant still being built, says Tepco — Trying to keep underground contamination from ocean — Years from completion?
Wall nearly 100 feet tall to be built underground at Fukushima Daiichi to prevent further spread of radioactive contamination — Construction begins tomorrow, ends June 2014 (PHOTOS)
http://enenews.com/wall-100-feet-tall-be-built-underground-fukushima-daiichi-tepco-trying-prevent-contamination-ocean-construction-begins-tomorrow-ends-june-2014-photos
Outline of Water Shielding Wall Project
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/betu12_e/images/120424e0201.pdf
Report comment
So why did the BBC claim via powerpoint graphics that the "wall" is why the water is about to flood the site? Just curious.
Report comment
Do you have a link?
Report comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23584008
at 0:36 they use the word "building a wall"
as if to imply that they have already begun building it.
disinfo?
Report comment
They started Apr, 2012, and will be completed June, 2014. See above, comment at 9:47 p.m. But there are already problems with this "solution".
Report comment
It is a very bad idea, in my opinion. If the site becomes flooded it will become unworkable. The facility might even collapse due to the soil conditions.
If a hydro-volcano happens, it will obviously be because of pressure built up due to water heated for long periods of time. If the plant collapses, it would create a lot of pressure and possibly trigger it. I'm no expert on this, but then again, nobody is because it's never happened before.
Report comment
I don't understand how they are building a wall there when there is no construction equipment visible where the magical yellow powerpoint wall says they've begun building it.
Wasn't the plan to freeze the soil as a "wall?" What type of heavy equipment is needed to build a 100 foot underground frozen wall?
Report comment
Nevermind, PhillipUpNorth posted this link that shows the work site for the wall and details of the construction in a nother thread:
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2013/08/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-groundwater_6.html
Report comment
“Asahi Shimbun, August 3, 2013: [...] The immediate concern is radioactive water seeping along the seaward side of the No. 1 to No. 3 reactors and spilling into the sea. [...] the water level in observation wells has risen sharply to about 1 meter from the ground’s surface, [...] the walls can only be built with their tops at 1.8 meters beneath the surface. That means the water levels in the observation wells have already risen above the top edges. If such a situation continues, the completed barriers will be unable to prevent the water from reaching the ocean. In addition, calculations show that if the water levels continue to rise at the current pace, contaminated water will flood the surface in about three weeks. [...]”
http://enenews.com/nhk-contaminated-underground-water-may-have-moved-aboveground-at-fukushima-plant-asahi-immediate-concern-its-spilling-into-pacific
Report comment
“NHK, August 3, 2013: [...] TEPCO admitted during the [Friday] meeting that contaminated underground water may have moved aboveground along seawalls that were solidified to stop leakages. TEPCO’s proposals include construction of a new facility to gather underground water flowing toward the seaside of the plant and begin pumping water in late August. Experts in the group urged TEPCO to implement the measures ahead of schedule, citing the seriousness of the problem. [...]”
http://enenews.com/nhk-contaminated-underground-water-may-have-moved-aboveground-at-fukushima-plant-asahi-immediate-concern-its-spilling-into-pacific
Report comment
Many thanks, anne, fir the nice presentation.
You always have the right links at hand. (You must have a highly organized mind, and computer!)
Report comment
Looks good on paper..
Now place.. a disturbed fault..a ruptured aquifer.. shoreline shearing.. general liquefaction…areas disrupted and being disrupted by the presence of the corium.. subsidence… and any areas that show movement risk during an earthquake..on the diagram.
Report comment
Here I am posting the link to the Geology of Fukushima..
I think it is important to understand the geological frailties of the area.
The last photo..showing the fault running under the plant.
The Geology Of Fukushima
Nov 11 2013
http://fukushima.over-blog.fr/article-the-geology-of-fukushima-88575278.html
I'm also going to post the bing search..it is full of diagrams of other faults under nuclear plants..in Japan..the US ..etc..
Like this…
http://fukushimaupdate.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tsuruga-fault.jpg
And this..
http://www.climatestorytellers.org/stories/subhankar-banerjee-robert-gilkeson-another-kind-of-fukushima/pfs-fault-segments-map.jp
Check it out…
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fault+fukushima&go=&qs=bs&form=QBIR
Report comment
Japan nuclear body says radioactive water at Fukushima an ‘emergency’
Posted on August 5, 2013
“…Tepco is trying to prevent groundwater from reaching the plant by building a “bypass” but recent spikes of radioactive elements in sea water has prompted the utility to reverse months of denials and finally admit that tainted water is reaching the sea. In a bid to prevent more leaks into the bay of the Pacific Ocean, plant workers created the underground barrier by injecting chemicals to harden the ground along the shoreline of the No. 1 reactor building. But that barrier is only effective in solidifying the ground at least 1.8 meters below the surface. By breaching the barrier, the water can seep through the shallow areas of earth into the nearby sea. More seriously, it is rising toward the surface – a break of which would accelerate the outflow. “If you build a wall, of course the water is going to accumulate there. And there is no other way for the water to go but up or sideways and eventually lead to the ocean,” said Masashi Goto, a retired Toshiba Corp nuclear engineer who worked on several Tepco plants. “So now, the question is how long do we have?” –Reuters”
http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/japan-nuclear-body-says-radioactive-water-at-fukushima-an-emergency/
Report comment
Fukushima Built On Aquifer Could Topple!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18ZRUUs782g
“Published on Aug 7, 2013
400 Tons Highly Radioactive Water Pouring into Ocean Daily. Official warns Fukushima reactor buildings could "topple" Tepco's work to change flow of groundwater can form pools below surface that soften the earth. Tepco prepares this week to start work on a new set of measures that would ring off and cap the area where the most highly contaminated water has been found, some experts and regulators are saying that the battle to completely contain radioactivity to the site of one of the world's worst nuclear accidents may be a losing one. It's preparing to extend the underground hardened-earth barrier in a ring around the most heavily contaminated section of coastline, in hopes of heading groundwater off before it can flood in. Tepco is also proposing to cap that ringed section with gravel and asphalt, so nothing gets out. The operator is hoping to get an initial ring of hardened ground done by October. But there's a risk to changing the flow of groundwater in the ways that Tepco is considering, said Tatsuya Shinkawa, nuclear accident response director of the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, at a news conference last month. The water could pool dangerously underground, softening the earth and potentially toppling the reactor buildings.”
Report comment
Headlines this week with words like…
"extraordinarily serious"
"out of control"
"uncharted territory"
"this is a crisis"
"never ending threat"
"Is anybody listening? Is anybody out there?"
- Pink Floyd (Billy Gilman)
These are the same words used in many comments here at ENENEWS to describe the catastrophic events at Fukushima for over 2 years now.
However, none of this was mentioned tonight on the NBC Nightly news report. Instead they talked about Brian's titanium knee surgery.
IMO – 20 to 30 years is still a low ball guesstimate Mr. Gundersen. It's going to be extremely hazardous to all life for centuries or even longer. He knows that. We all know it.
This entire event, from the TRIPLE METDOWNS to the media news manipulation/blackout, is difficult for most everyone to fathom.
Staring into the face of reality and communicating this information tactfully to others, especially those you love, is the hard part.
Report comment
ChasAha,
This behavior has been going on for the past 2000 years.
You forget they used to burn people at the stake.. if they would not cooperate.
Now they use money and power deep inside the ongoing created ancient designed Zeitgeist…
Report comment
People don't want to know, it would interrupt their evening with "Dancing with the Stars"…..
Report comment
The masses could care less..
I hear it all the time.
There is nothing they can do about it…so somehow they won't be affected.
The same with the NSA situation.
"Oh..we aren't doing anything so why should it matter?"
That's the whole point..
They aren't doing anything.
They don't care.
Even a cow on the way to butcher..balks!
Report comment
Are humans smarter than simple minded bovines?
Are they?
Report comment
Ummm..I think bovine remains in singular..bovine.
Are humans smarter than cows on the way to slaughter?
NO…not really.
Report comment
Are humans smarter than cows on the way to slaughter?
This one is. I never follow sheeple.
Report comment
Ya..I'm chafing at the bit myself.
Report comment
No humans are not smarter.
A cow can sometimes be taught the way home.
Humans..it's only further and further away from..the 'garden'.
Because it's all about WEAPONS.
We don't take on..nuclear disarmament here much.
What's the point?..in a country griped by paranoia..involved in a state of terror no matter how false.
The other countries..now gripping theirs tighter..as the US has become the world threat.
Can you blame them?
What is left is perpetual war..greed..hate etc..while wrecking the environment.
Why? because TPTB can't think any harder.
Lack of adaptation= evolutionary failure.
Report comment
China Syndrome At Fukushima Plant, Japan: Corium Reaches Groundwater
Jul 8, 2013 [http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/ ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm11oYQi99I
Report comment
Fukushima: corium hitting the water table
“I guess it was inevitable as the process of China syndrome goes on that the corium (amorphous mass of nuclear-reacting material from the destroyed reactors) would eventually reach the water table, which is not far under the foundations of the seaside destroyed facility.
“
Unlike what happened in Chernobyl, where this process was at least delayed by means of the construction of a new underground floor at the risk of the lives of many workers, in Fukushima that has not been attempted at all, plausibly because the water table was simply too shallow. The whole consequences of the interaction of this extreme heat source with the water table are not yet known (will it explode?) but one thing is clear: the radiation levels are climbing fast, especially in the water:
…”
http://forwhatwearetheywillbe.blogspot.com/2013/07/fukushima-corium-hitting-water-table.html
Graphic:
http://www.roundtree7.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The-China-Syndrome-Meltdown-diagram.gif
from:
http://www.roundtree7.com/2011/06/meltdown-to-meltthrough-bad-to-worse-at-japans-fukushima-reactors/
Report comment
“…Whatever they admit to, what is clear is that two years after the initial catastrophe the situation is not under control and looks like it will never be, releasing more and more radiation to the Pacific Ocean and the atmosphere in a destruction spiral that threatens all Humankind….”
http://forwhatwearetheywillbe.blogspot.com/2013/07/fukushima-corium-hitting-water-table.html
Report comment
"20 to 30 years?" What deception.
Millions of years later this will be deforming the world.
Report comment
Yep!
Report comment
It will have to be domed too… Whst Average Annual. Rainfall there??? Added to the water needed to cool the site a huge #…
Report comment
"Radioactive chain-reaction and corresponding increased heat-production may progress in parts of the corium if a critical mass occurs locally. This condition can be detected by presence of short-life fission products long after the meltdown, in amounts that are too high to be from the controlled reaction inside the pre-meltdown reactor. Because nuclear chain-reactions generate high amounts of heat and highly-radioactive fission products, this condition is highly undesirable from a reactor vessel structure and biological safety perspective.[1]" from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)
Sounds like the corium (nuclear reactor) is growing/expanding, being fueled by what it contacts. Sounds like they are describing this at Fukushima. If there is there nothing to stop the chain reaction now…?????? What can we hope for?
Report comment
What we can hope for is that the hydro-volcano prediction doesn't come true. That's about it, I think.
Report comment
A single nuclear plant ruining the world's oceans. Total waste.
Report comment
100 of these plants on the US mainland alone! What happens when the infrastructure to maintain these plants collapses 5, 10, 20, 50, 200 years down the road? Exponential threat!
Report comment
Maybe they should have thought more about us…NOT.
http://illuminatiwatcher.com/?p=6644
'Conspiracy Theory Rock' – Saturday Night Live.
the second video is good too.
Report comment
or I should have reviewed my comment before posting.
The second video, kiddos, is the CTR from SNL. GREAT PIECE DON:T MISS IT, and share please.
Report comment
Awesome and Shared
Report comment
if they can stop the Ground-water
and than ????
is this water now and past the first cool tool for the Blob( 1 or 2 or 3 or one big Blob ) ?
With How many KW/H did the ground water cool the bloob
and Who do this Job if they stop the water ???
who can work there ? where the Rad Spike go higher and higher
all Day`s
sickness future coming soon…
i cant see a solution to break this way
Report comment
I have never posted here – more a voyeur type. Until now. The "wall" they were building has made it worse, causing terrible soil instability and rapid leakage. Eventually, they will need drain the basements and see what kind of meltdown they had. Is it a rupture in the tarus, did it burn through the concrete after core breach? Is there still pockets of hot fuel? These have to be answered to find out what is the next step is.
I also favor pumping water from the hillsides to reduce the flow to the site. Might slow it or lower the volume.
300 tons (metric) is about 80,000 U.S. Gallons. Get a flotilla of supertankers, which are not bothered by quakes or tsunamis and pump away. Also drain the "tank farm". Rusting cheaply built tanks need to go.
Turn Tank farm area into rubber lined evaporation ponds, and bury used liners in the sealed landfill you will build nearby.
Build multiple decon/filtration units. process water on board supertankers.
It's an idea anyway. Blame is useless now. We need solutions ASAP. Thanks
Report comment
Welcome Uncle Crusty,
Glad to hear from you!
Aloha.
Report comment
Sidebar – Will TEPCO ever use the words "Primary and secondary Containment breach" ?
Report comment
No way to stop Gundershill from remaining silent on Plume-Gate and the NRC FOIA documents pertaining to Fukushima…he even admits he's read them: http://plumegate.wordpress.com/
Report comment
20-30 years?
Perhaps..Mr.Gundersen could recite the 'daughter products' and their progression for us.
Report comment
Dig a deep trench to route the water to a man made lake. Line it like above. I don't know if there is any place to cut a lake. Oh boy.
Report comment
It's like the moat around a child's sand castle..the water can come up through the sand..the ocean can overtake it.
The castle can shift at anytime..leaving it toppled in a lake of water.
Report comment
The Lake:
The good news that the groundwater leaking from the plant will be unable to spread towards the Japanese inland and the Abukuma plateau due to the downward slope of the geological layers. The bad news is that there exists a fault which appears to be active right under the Fukushima Daiichi plant itself: this allows, and will continue to allow, radioactive pollution of aquifers over a depth of several hundreds of meters, as it runs through the different "waterproof" strata (4). This also means that the radionuclides will naturally be carried towards the sea by this underground water stream flowing through the permeable layers of sandstone. Sandstone is indeed the ideal rock for aquifers, as it is both permeable and fractured, providing easy movement of water. And finally, there is the problem of the type of rock on which the plant was built being rather "soft", meaning that an earthquake can only destabilize the buildings."
http://fukushima.over-blog.fr/article-the-geology-of-fukushima-88575278.html
Report comment
guess what i found out.. still in the early days of research but heres the summary..
In the Pacific there is a soup of plastic spread oout throughout the water column.. thicker in some places than others..
they have found that particles adhere nicely to the small plastic granules and that the plastic could be a transport for various radionuclides..
i suspect that as the contaminated water washes around the Pacific over the next few hundred/thousand years, that these granules might be made radioactive..
food chain aside.. hadnt we think better of dumping plastic?? as a priority?
before fukushima some dives were done in the deep ocean off japan.. lots of plastic bags were found at the bottom of the sea (probably near the dumpsites that i have previously mentioned here.)
the plastic mountainss will be more rotted and shaken by all the earthquakes over the last 2 years.. and we have NO studies done on this or very little studies done by the IAEA mob!!
It would be interesting to get hold of the russian and chinese data on the pacific.. they did more than the usa, UK and japan etc anyway!! /rant
i will post the findings when i am finished working on a few points
will be a while though
peace
Report comment
Hi all, thx for your hard work and educational posts. So the corium ( we hope it just one) is still smouldering away, slowly working its way to the sea and has become a bit excited ( increase of radioactive isotopes ) . What is the chance of explosion and why would this happen? Presumably it has already come in contact with the watertable hence the steam venting from the ground so what could cause it to explode?
Please excuse my ignorance but I am trying to explain what is going on to the people around me who are now finally listening to all of us !
Report comment
Since no one is sure where the (3) melted cores are, it is a guessing game as to what is happening.
Some think the melts are traveling around as mini volcanoes, others think damming the seaside with a partial underground wall has caused the water table to rise and contact the melted cores when they used to be high and dry, which is leading to maybe Unit 3 now steaming more and the cores being able to radioactively contaminate any groundwater coming in contact with them and flow onward to the sea where the cores didn't have access to that much groundwater before the damming.
TEPCO doesn't seem to know what is going on either so it is hard to explain the unknown conditions.
At the very least with all the higher readings of radioactive water there is no containment of the melted cores, wherever they are, and are not isolated like they should be from contacting the environment.
Report comment
This Gudersen, it is a false prophet … Like all nuclear physicists … They pretend to be omniscient, and unable to cope with ordinary water .. and fooling us ..
I do not know that times do I have to publish that, however, we can .. only need to ask .. It goes without saying that this Guddersen, he should apologize for denigration nonsense ..
In order to provide the reactors in Fukushime from the bottom you have the mechanical tunnel.
Then insert the two meters in diameter with 20 tubes. , Do the holes from the top and side, and on the bottom line fire resistant ZrO2. For large pipes enter the small tube to remove radioactive leaks or cooling corium had reached there…
http://www.new4stroke.com/herenknecht.jpg
http://www.herrenknecht.com/en/products/core-products/tunnelling-pipelines/direct-pipe.html
Certainly not the cheapest, but it will give guarantees that the radioactive materials do not enter the land and ocean..
Report comment
New pipe products..also only good until the next major geological disturbance.
Report comment
PS..Same goes for the tunnels/hovels TPTB plan to live in.
Report comment
Nobody is going to build any tunnels in an ongoing liquifying land mass that is so unstable that it is now considered one of the most unstable pieces of property found on Planet Earth.
These people in Japan are grasping at straws and we humans are in the process of.. X-Term-A-Nation!
This is the worse location in the world for a Nuclear Core Meltdown to occur.
Sadly many more Nuclear Core Meltdowns are coming soon worldwide.
Some of these disasters will be contained and many will not be contained.
Man's future is right now and your seeing it play out at Fukushima.
Shut them all down.. and do it quickly!
Report comment