Gundersen: “Nuclear core has disintegrated” at Fukushima Unit 3 — Japan Energy Expert: Location of melted fuel for 3 reactors is unknown, this has never happened anywhere before (VIDEO)

Published: February 28th, 2014 at 3:11 pm ET
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Foreign Correspondents Club of Japan, Feb. 21, 2014 (at 39:30 in) — Question: What is your assessment of what is going on right now inside the cores of the nuclear reactors? […] Give us your analysis of what the situation of the nuclear core is now. — Hisayo Takada, energy expert at Greenpeace Japan:  Nobody knows, we cannot go into that to look at what it looks like. So that’s the magnitude of this disaster, it is a triple meltdown. Any people never experienced this kind of nuclear disaster and it is still going on.

Jan van de Putte, radiation safety expert at Greenpeace, Feb. 21, 2014 (at 43:00 in): We have […] very little information of the actual situation of the fuel […] exactly where it is, in what state it is, and in what location it is.

Arnie Gundersen interview on Radio New Zealand, Jan. 26, 2014 (at 7:30 in): The worst problem is at the bottom of [Fukushima] Unit 3, the water is much more radioactive than where this leak was. So what that tells me is that the nuclear core has disintegrated and it’s basically a powder. Almost like one of those glass balls you shake up and it makes snow. [...] That bodes very poorly for nuclear decommissioning.

Full Gundersen interview hereWatch the FCCJ press conference here

See also: Gundersen analyzes new leaks at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 3

And: US Nuclear Officials: Fuel fragments were likely ejected from cladding at the 3 Fukushima reactors -- Particles of fuel resemble highly radioactive 'mystery black substance' often seen in Japan since 3/11 (PHOTOS)

Published: February 28th, 2014 at 3:11 pm ET
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249 comments

Related Posts

  1. Nuclear Engineer: Radioactive plumes always coming out of Fukushima Unit 3 — “Water is not getting to hotspots… it’s because of melted core” — Fission may be taking place underneath reactor (AUDIO) January 3, 2014
  2. Bloomberg: ‘Highly radioactive’ leak at Fukushima Unit 3 — NHK: Melted fuel coolant thought to be flowing from containment vessel for ‘unknown reason’ — 24 Million Bq/liter of strontium, other beta emitters (VIDEO) January 20, 2014
  3. Japan TV: It gets worse every minute at Fukushima plant, groundwater mixing with melted fuel — Gundersen: There’s no end in sight because the nuclear core is in contact with groundwater (VIDEO) January 17, 2014
  4. Asahi: Locations and condition of melted Fukushima fuel unknown — Mainichi: 450 tons of scattered radioactive rods… unknown where holes in reactors are… plans may be delayed June 11, 2013
  5. Gundersen: Unit 3 explosion “very similar” to what happened at Chernobyl — Pieces of nuclear fuel found offsite indicate fuel racks were lifted up (VIDEO) August 4, 2012

249 comments to Gundersen: “Nuclear core has disintegrated” at Fukushima Unit 3 — Japan Energy Expert: Location of melted fuel for 3 reactors is unknown, this has never happened anywhere before (VIDEO)

  • Ontological Ontological

    Most likely it's in the atmosphere, I was afraid of this the day it detonated.


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  • Nick

    I have feared this "dusting" scenario all along. TMI had some dusting too.

    What this means is:

    #1 Decommissioning is IMPOSSIBLE….the stuff is wafting into the biosphere in nano-sized puffs 24/7

    #2 Fukushima is worse than even I could have imagined.

    #3 Game over.


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  • Nick

    Nuclear anything anywhere on the planet has sealed our fate.

    We thought we were intelligent enough to split the atom, but we forgot the simple truth that it (the decaying atoms) MUST NOT be allowed to enter the biosphere.

    So we puffed up our chests and designed machines that were supposed to have what are called CONTAINMENT vessels.

    Fukushima D NPP was one of the world's largest nuclear power generating stations and had a shitload of spent fuel on site.

    Hard to wrap my brain-pan around the fact that it is game over.


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    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

      not "game over", Nick. Might be, you'd have to change strategy…


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      • HoTaters

        Hi AFTERSHOCK, am hearing some encouraging stuff like things re: new cleanup technologies using graphene, etc. Have seen a couple of great ideas floated here recently.

        Just met a former nuclear sub officer who lives P/T in Humboldt County, CA. He said he shields his underground water source with lead and some kind of polyethylene (?) or polysorbate (?) fibers.

        Do you know anything about this technology & can you share it? Pls. answer here, then let's take it to the forum.

        Hope you're well, happy, feeling blessed despite all & thankful for life, today. I am. Not always easy after reading headlines like this one, & reports like this. Egads!

        Best regards everyone,
        HT


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      • Arizonan Arizonan

        High potassium input can reduce Cs137 plant uptake: https://marshallislands.llnl.gov/bikini.php.
        "Large-scale field experiments on Bikini Island have been used to optimize the required amount and application rates of potassium (Figure 3). The results from these experiments show that a single application of 2000 kg per ha of potassium can be effective in reducing the cesium-137 uptake in coconut meat (and juice) to about 5% to 10% of the pretreatment level. Multiple applications (over several months) of the same total amount of potassium produce even better and more consistent results. Moreover, the concentration of cesium-137 in the coconuts following remediation remains low for an extended period of time, so the need for continuous effort and retention of scientific and technical expertise is minimized (Robison et al., 2004). In fact, the use of potassium was adopted by the Rongelap Atoll Local Government (RALGOV) as part of a combined option for rehabilitation and cleanup of Rongelap Island (Rongelap Atoll). The combined option calls for (1) the treatment of agricultural areas of the island with potassium fertilizer to reduce the uptake of cesium-137 into plants, and (2) the replacement of contaminated surface soil around the village and housing areas with crushed-coral fill in order to help minimize external exporsure rates in areas where people spend most of their time. This same type of approach would be applicable to reducing dose rates on Bikini Island."


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  • Nick

    If the core is a powder….nano sized bits are going to spew forever.

    Last time I checked, that is a long time.


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    • FallOut FallOut

      Comments via Physics Forum – March 25th 2011-

      1 – Chlorine-38 has a 37 minutes half-life- Where could it come from? Neutron activation of the brine??

      2- Looks like it is common in BWR's, and that you are correct, NaCl impurities in water.

      3- Kate are we looking at unlikely chemistry. This case is unprecedented, with ocean water and uncounted types of impurities potentially interacting with isotopes?

      4- But its production should essentially have stopped two weeks ago. That is 14 times 40 half-lifes ago. It should be gone. To me this suggests that there is a huge neutron flux of the injected seawater. Unless they made an error in the exponent.

      5- perhaps it was an error, but it has been mentioned in earlier posts (ones that were never quite addressed to my satisfaction :) that small amounts of high energy neutrons were measured up to 1.5 km from the plant (suggests fission?), if there is some type of breach, coupled with fission, could this be a reason for the flux? And by extension the presence of Cl-38? If so, this looks very bad.

      6- The stable isotope chlorine-37 has a relatively large cross-section for neutron absorption. I am not a nuclear scientist, but I cannot find another way of producing Cl-38. Such high concentrations of this short-lived isotope suggest that there is still a chain reaction. But that is impossible.


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      • FallOut FallOut

        1 – Let us assume that the numbers are correct and that there really is a megabecquerel of Cl-38 per cm^3 in that water.

        Suppose this is the steady state concentration in a certain neutron flux. Then the number of neutrons absorbed is equal to the number of decays. Let is suppose this is sea water, 3 % NaCl by weight. That is 30 milligrams of NaCl per cubic centimeter. Less than 1 millimole.

        The cross section for neutron absorption of Cl-37 is 33 barns = 33 x 10^-24 cm. Only about a quarter of the chlorine consists of this isotope. So the total cross section is 10^23 x 10^-3 x 33.10^-24 = 10^-3 cm^2.

        So one needs a neutron flux of about 10^9 neutrons per cm^2 per second to get this kind of induced radioactivity. That is several orders of magnitudes below what one has in a working reactor. But the activity found may also be several orders of magnitude below steady state.

        2- Just to clarify (33 * 10^-24) * 10^-3 * 10^23? wouldn't that be 33 * 10^-4? (even lower values?)
        I think that the prevalence of Cl-37 is less than 1/4 in sea water, though I don't believe it is low enough to cause a huge variation of your figures. BUT, and a BIG BUT. We have the issue of the steam leaving the salt behind creating a much larger percentage of NaCl to water, how does this change your estimation if at all?


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        • FallOut FallOut

          1 – It does not matter, this is just the grossest estimate of what a minimum neutron flux would be to achieve this level of activation of seawater. For that, the brine would have had to be in this neutron flux for about one half-life (30 minutes). And not have had time for decay. And not have been diluted. That is not realistic.

          It seems that there was no water in that basement the day before. Suppose it had leaked in from the reactor 6 hours before they analyzed it. That is 12 half-times, and the activity would be 4000 times higher than when they measured the spectrum.

          The uncertainties are gigantic, but something is very wrong. If the NISA numbers are correct, that reactor is still critical.


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          • I would say there was no question whether some remnant coriums were still critical in 2011, of course they were.

            But I like your quotes from Physics forum, good learning experience. Question is, are coriums still critical, especially as they get jostled around by earth shakes.


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            • Jacklab

              Incorrect assessment. "Critical" means keff > 1 and a "divergent" chain reaction. The corium was "subcritical" meaning keff < 1.

              Now there will always be fission and multiplication in subcritical systems.

              N =Sk +Sk^2 +Sk^3 ….Sk^n after n generations

              N = S (1/(1-k) = S*M

              M = N/S

              So just because its multiplying doesnt mean its critical.

              Thanks


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              • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

                Jack, is there anyone so despicable as the guy who, against strong protest from the public and other scientists… goes forward with a complex machine that makes enough poison to kill everyone on earth many times over, saying there is no chance for failure, ….and then when it does blow up (like Chernobyl), KEEPS ON with the program until MORE lay in radioactive smoking ruin, claiming…get this…that nobody could have predicted it…and then, concurrent with never ending poisoning of the entire ecosystem with tens of tons of uranium and plutonium, spends his energies arguing that people are too dumb to be able to conclude that there is a problem or that anything will be harmed?

                I know its a long worded question. I can hardly think of anyone who could be more despised by the mothers of deformed children, and all others who appreciate and respect life and the beautiful earth. What do you say? BTW, do you have a friend in the field who is a soccer referee?

                thanks!


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      • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

        The radioactive chlorine could be an indirect response due to other radionukes…maybe cesium. Water falls as rain, flows into river, gets sucked into human water supply, reacts with the chlorine in that water supply. I've had a few showers recently where the vapor stung the heck out of my eyes like NEVER before.


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    • Jacklab

      How would ceramic UO2 with a melting point of 5500 deg C turn into a powder?


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      • First you irradiate an RPV for 30 years, using conventional fuel. This is known to embrittle the RPV and to cause cracks in the RPV.

        Then add MOX fuel and increase the thermal stresses on the RPV, run for 10 MORE years, enlarging innumerable pre-existing cracks high and low, throughout the 6" thick steel RPV.

        Then you have an earthquake which destroys your ability to cool the core. You pump in 150T of seawater into the containment in a blind attempt to cool the core, but the core continues to get hotter, passing 5500 C, slumping all 150T of liquid corium into the bottom of the RPV. 150T of seawater waits below.

        Now you start melting into the RPV itself, and the cracks finally result in a catastrophic release of the bottom 1/4 of the RPV, along with 150T of 5500+ C corium, into the 150T of seawater below.

        Voila, steam explosion 1, then a massive wave of 100T of water recoiling into the vapor portion of the torus, then rebounding, with 100T water again coming in contact with the remaining 100T of 5500+ C corium, 2nd steam explosion, massive wave of 50T of water recoiling into the vapor portion of the torus, then rebounding, with 50T water again coming in contact with the remaining 50T of 5500+ C corium, 3rd steam explosion.

        So in summary, the violent steam explosions pulverize the liquid UO2, liberating it into the atmosphere, and now everything in Unit 3 can start cooling off.

        Heh. Nuclear power. It's a helluva way to pulverize UO2.


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        • Jacklab

          The inability to cool the core was from the tsunami itself, not the earthquake.

          UO2 was never liquified. Its against the laws of physics given the material form, type and the fact that the only way to liquify a UO2 solid is to drop it into a vat of nitric acid.

          People! Stop this type of speculation. It doesnt do your site any good.


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          • or-well

            uh oh – a tsunamididiter.
            The workers who were onsite may disagree.
            But never mind that!
            Fresh start for all!
            Jacklab, find your niche and contribute your expertise.
            Keep your eye out for the famed PattieB.


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        • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

          Fine, if plug was gone, leaving gaping hole in remains of containment.
          Please explain:
          Plug in pace, dented by crane falling from on high.


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  • Nick

    I can honestly say that humanity is faced with the gravest crisis ever.

    At this point in time, all warfare needs to cease.

    Everyone, everywhere needs to get on their knees and weep.

    Now wipe those tears and stand up…and do something.

    Follow your muse, you''ll know what is the best way for you to carry on.

    I just hope we all can show a shred of compassion to each other before our world goes completely to shreds.

    The winds of Fukushima are not something conjured up by fantasy, they are real, and they are deadly.


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  • GQR2

    So far the FCCJ conference is really good!
    thx ENE admin.


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  • unincredulous unincredulous

    We believe in one Power,
    the Atom Almighty,
    destroyer of sky and earth,
    of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one WHO,
    the only Son of Atom,
    eternally begotten of the IAEA,
    Power from Power, Light from Boiling water,
    true Money from true Money,
    begotten, not made,
    of one Being with the IAEA.
    Through them all NPPs were made.
    For us and for our salvation
    It came down from heaven:
    by the power of the NRA
    It became incarnate from cold steel,
    and was made Destroyer.
    For our sake It was crucified under Fukushima;
    It suffered death and was buried.
    On the third year it rose again
    in accordance with the mainstream media;
    It ascended into heaven
    and is seated near Hawaii and the west coast of North America.
    It will never go away, and in glory will judge the living and the dead,
    and it's terror will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Atom, the containment, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Diet and the Tepco.
    With the The IAEA and the DOE it is worshiped and glorified.
    It has spoken through the TV.
    We believe in one clean and green power source.
    We acknowledge one mSv for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look for the resurrection of the Daichi plant,
    and the life of the reactors to come. Amen.


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    • unincredulous unincredulous

      Typos. Can't live with them, can't live without them. NRC, not NRA


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    • bo bo

      Is this a bible reference ?
      Sorry I never went to sunday school and skipped religion classes in catholic school
      Dunno what goes on inside the bible


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      • VanneV VanneV

        Not from the Bible but a profession of faith used by some, not all churches, written long after the Bible: The Nicene Creed is one; there is more than one.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed


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        • VanneV VanneV

          Of course, it is a parody, and wouldn't be appreciated by many people.


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          • unincredulous unincredulous

            Not a parody exactly. It seems to be the devotion these atomic scientists have in their "project." And the Japanese belief that they can clean this mess up in time for the Olympics suggests some belief beyond scientific fact. The continued building of more NPPs and the secrecy surrounding this man made catastrophe reflects a cultish mindset.

            No disrespect meant for the Nicene Creed. It is a statement of belief. In that respect it is an alternate belief statement. I should have spent more time with it. It was done on the fly. Just expressing a sarcastic response to the nuclear cult. It's like some science fiction movie. Like the missile worshippers in "The Planet of the Apes." Who knows, the apes may eventually rise above us. We don't look to promising.


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      • atomicistheword

        Bo,

        I think he speaks of the god of paper known as Dollar the great? Apparently they trust in him.


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      • unincredulous unincredulous

        The Nicene Creed, with a nuke mindset. VanneV has it covered, see her comments below.

        You skipped religious classes in a Catholic School?

        I went to Catholic School in first and second grade. My parents put me in public school, because they couldn't afford the Catholic school. It leaves me with a bad impression. I often get odd thoughts about it. Just know, I thought, "I wonder what the cover charge was to attend the Sermon on the Mount?" I know it wasn't like that in Jesus' day. But still, the barbarians attacked and took over the Catholic church. I attended the religious history courses at college a couple of years ago. Religious history is an important part of world history. Those who say don't talk of religion would have you deny the whole of history.


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        • bo bo

          @ uni …Thanks for the explanation. I'm an artist so I've always appreiated how the world's greatest arworks were produced for religious purposes…I mean, just look at the Sistine Chapel. Catholics have the most colorful visuals, I was always jealous about that, was never into the zen visual as a child… plus Catholics got to celebrate xmas.. that's so cool. So I was kind of excited about Catholic school but quickly realized it was all a big bore and found a way to slip out through the back pretending to go get a drink of water then through the fire escape to the roof top. I was closer to god that way lol. But I digress… anyways, I like your assessment of nuclear being a religion of our time…perhaps TEPCO should commission some art inside reactor 4, on the ceiling, like the Sistine Chapel… and we'll have at least one final masterpiece to remember humanity by.


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    • unincredulous unincredulous

      It should say, "We acknowledge one megawatt for the forgiveness of sins."


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  • Socrates

    The truth was delayed so that the so-called nuclear Renaissance could go forward with taxpayer subsidies. The limitations on liabilities and the limits on operator liabilities shifts the risk of losses to the citizens. That shift acts as a further subsidy to this deadly industry.

    To shut down a reactor is to use more carbon fuel, is the response from politicians. That is a "false choice."

    Triple meltdowns adjacent to a body of salt water will cause irreversible environmental damage. Mortality and morbidity, as well as genomic degradation will follow. Hundreds of years later, this will still be going on.

    Japan knowingly accepted this risk, as did many other countries. The people will eat the losses while corporate fat cats and investors go Scott free. This is the "business model" of America. Rip off and make sure nobody faces personal liability.

    No only do they take these very large magnitude risks, they lie about the consequences and expose more people to make more money. Placing profit over safety is one thing, bu to out and out continue a fraud is a crime against humanity.

    Our planet lies in smoking ruins. As with crimes of Wall Street, they will all get their bonuses and their companies will be bailed out.

    Normal market mechanisms have been eliminated so "moral hazard" creates the nuclear juggernaut. Until they are liable, they will be reinforced to do it again and again and lie about it, too.

    Politicians a sold out…..


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    • unincredulous unincredulous

      No one gets off scott free, and they won't like the bonuses they get.


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    • FallOut FallOut

      When the pacific ocean is destroyed you will see a change in attitude. Mega money in Cali will not be happy with the fish / sushi / beach downer. The party is over.

      And wait until they tell everyone WIPP is no more on 60 minutes, billions down the drain and long term storage issue on the front burner once again. It will be a long hot summer for the pro-nuke crowd.


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      • Socrates

        Folks in Santa Barbara created No Oil, Inc. In response to offshore drilling. I lived in Malibu for ten years. That beach property is worth trillions of dollars. All the way up and down the coast, there ARE going to be repercussions… nuclear stigma in sushi and beach front real estate? They messed with the wrong people!

        I am preparing for massive litigation up and down the entire West Coast. The choice is no longer between big oil and nuclear energy; it is a fight for life. This must not be tolerated. Never again.


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        • GQR2

          More power to ya Socrates,just to raise the awareness should be enough activate these folks,but barring that they will be quite worried about the economic damage,probably before their own health.


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          • We Not They Finally

            People worry about economic damage before they worry about ANYONE else's health.

            Pissed off rich people always find ways to sue. And not that the issues won't be legit. They will. But given the magnitude of what is coming, it seems an ethical imperative that every available dollar would be better spent on saving lives rather than property values.

            (Though I'm sure that the pissed off rich people won't agree.)


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        • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

          Go get em! :) Kick their ass! :) :) :) :)

          They will destroy it all, the entire Earth, unless these "Nuke Pukers" are stopped! :(


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      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        Shut all these Pro~Nukers and their entire Nuclear Industry down! :) Do this now!


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    • Socrates

      Meanwhile, we have to listen on television about "personal responsibility." How about a little corporate responsibility? If corporations are people with rights, how about making them face financial responsibility?

      The present legal scheme ENCOURAGES this exact behavior. This is well-known in nuclear risk management and insurance circles. I will save you citations from lengthy treaties on third party liability of the nuclear industry.

      The nuclear industry is the "sacred cow" of America. Historically, the industry has paid out about two-hundred million in claims – mostly to buy confidentiality agreements to shut people up.

      Our politicians have no balls whatsoever. They have NO appetite to take this fight on. They surrendered long ago. They were ignorant or sold out.

      Well, maybe people will "get it" when they see what washes up on our shores for the next few centuries – what is in the food and water they give to their own children.

      And we could have used wind and solar with no meltdowns whatsoever…

      Ayn Rand had one thing right; special interests control our government. I just disagree with her solution.


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  • RonM

    Wasn't the chance of another Earthquake above Magnitude 8.0 predicted to happen within 3 years with a 95% probability?

    Isn't the probability of another meltdown at another reactor now every seven years?

    Aren't the huge tanks holding highly radioactive water corroding quickly and only designed to last ten years or so and in addition sitting on cracked foundations of cement poured over shifting sand?

    Things don't look too good on planet Earth for the foreseeable future.

    Stay tuned to Enenews.com for more of the horrible truth about Nuclear Power and Nuclear technology!

    I wonder when the truth and Magnitude of this disaster will finally be broadcast to the entire population of the world?


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    • Socrates

      RonM,

      They gambled and lost. They need to face justice. They were warned at every step of the way. I have never seen such conclusive evidence of wrongdoing. Cases are being prepared for prosecution for war crimes, crimes against humanity. People want justice.

      I have personally debated nuclear engineers, some in my own family, although at least one became a physician, anti-nuke, and a cancer researcher. Some biologists in my family worked for the other side.

      My dad started to fight them in the early fifties with Alice Stewart, the physician and epidemiologist in England who criticized using pelvic x-rays on pregnant women!!!!! They crucified her!

      They cannot discredit me because I hold no degrees or tenure or grants. But inside whisteblowers are persecuted. I just wonder if any of these guys will stretch a rope after a few trials.

      More damage here than Pearl Harbor. Probably 60,000 infants have died in America from the Iodine 129/131 according to some epidemiologists in peer-reviewed journals. Then the 134/137Cs and decades of 90Sr.

      Just because it is a slow motion train wreck, it has and will do damage into the foreseeable future, in my humble lay opinion


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  • Tiza Tiza

    So, I don't mean to sound stupid because this is all new to me, but is it a bad thing if a core disintegrated? Then again, is it worse than a China syndrome thing?

    Thanks


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    • Ontological Ontological

      Much worse, we have been breathing the dust from the R3 explosion for 3 years now. It put me in for a round of skull/nasel/oral cancer early on, in May of 2011. I am lucky what is left of me is still alive, a year after the surgery. Dust, powder, flakes, many words have been used to describe what happened. What dust/particulates got in the water, and what dust got in the air is not easily recoverable. Whole cores would be a better case if any ways to cool them is possible. Intact they could be eventually frozen in place. However blown to smithereens, they are basically everyone's problem. The dust is aggressive as a carcinogen, and as a corrosive oxidant. A horrible combo for people, and animals who have to be outside exposed. Hair loss, skin legions, muscle tissue degeneration etc.


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        My spouses dear friend also suffered from nasal carcinoma and now has a steel plate in his skull but currently is cancer free for close to a decade. I hope you fair as well, Ontological. Take good care of YOU and try not to worry about this ongoing disaster as it is truly out of control and impossible to fix but your condition can be cured. I'm sorry for all the suffering you have endured and do hope your outcome is similar to my spouses friend. NO NUKES


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        • Jacklab

          And you know for a fact that nuclear is the cause over any other potential cause because……


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          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            random gunfire at a schoolyard has not been proven dangerous, because for one thing, how do you unequivocally connect one bullet for one death, and secondly, who is to say the heart didnt stop beating for other reasons, just coincidentally?

            Its ok to drink this poison, because there are other poisons that could kill you also, how can you be sure which one did it?

            Its just plain stupid to fear walking in front of the guys at the archery range, because you lack the education to calculate arrow trajectory and perform monte carlo probability analysis. And by the time you got it figured out, you would probably be dead anyway.

            You are just a fear mongering fool for being worried about drinking from that poison filled stream. I mean how do you know killer bees wont get you first, food poisoning, or sun burn? Dont listen to what the fools tell you, listen to me


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      • Tiza Tiza

        Ontological,

        I'm so sorry to hear about your illness. Are you doing better now? I hope so.


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      • Jacklab

        Ontological,

        How do you know exactly that your skull cancer was from this cause? While I feel for you, I really dont believe you can pin it down to that specific cause. Hope you are feeling better.


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        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          I know, right Jack? Like the people downwind at Bopal, who is to say they didnt go blind looking at the sun, or some weird parasite, or any number of other causes? Also, wasnt it their fault for not being more selective about their exposure? SHeesh, hopefully people will be smarter when they have two heads!

          Thanks!


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    • Lets see…
      1: Water, is a reflector. It makes neutrons bounce back to the source, causing more fission.
      2: Water is a moderation element, but only under ridged conditions.
      A: Water MUST run between all your radioactive materials to slow neutrons.
      B: Water can then also remove heat if circulated to other environment.
      C: Meltdowns remove such water circulation channels.
      D: Water heated beyond 212 degree can NOT touch your materiel so as to remove any heat, so is reduced to just reflecting neutrons.
      E: Nuclear material is in-cased by Zircaloy, and that burns at over 1500 degrees even while submerged in water.
      F: Any water added to a meltdown situation causes faster meltdown, and more fission of your core materials… and is why in the Chernobyl meltdown they REMOVED all the water!
      G: The cores will and DO flash water to steam, as well as metals with low melt-gas transition points.
      H: Anything made gas by this process, exits the earth now are radioactive content venting to our air in "Hot-Gas" from vents and Quake-made fissures.
      I: 6.2 Kilos PU-141. or, 10.6 Kilo plutonium (PU)-239 gathered together causes a criticality event (BOMB) as well as putting U-235 under pressure can also start the needed reaction.
      J: Is GREAT DEAL of PRESSURE in our tectonic plates, and subduction zones. There have been many non-quakes from fission events of the 5 cores, 3 of them of Tepco make, 1 of Jepco ownership.. the last they don't admit exists, despite the…


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  • Tiza Tiza

    Here's one thing, if just one highly creative person could invent some form of clean-up for all of this crap, then can you imagine? I would say, clean it all up, all of it, then get rid of these silly and dangerous nuke power plants throughout the whole world.


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  • Capt. Nemo Capt. Nemo

    How many people are taking away the false notion that dental x-rays, airplane flights, and even bananas contain Plutonium? This sort of condescending attitude we keep encountering embeds these ridiculous ideas in the minds of those who know little science.
    This is some inverted version of crying wolf–crying 'nothing to worry about'. Crying flamingos? Crying cats? Crying mice? Crying sloths?


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    • The facts are EVERY RADIOACTIVE ELEMENT does and WILL break your DNA… FACTS !.. So, as to what type of radioactive element they are using for such scanners really DOES NOT MATTER MUCH, other than it's size and possibility to enter your body via a multitude of passages!

      It's not the scanners giving you Plutonium exposure right now.. but the PLANES !

      They are pumping into the cabins at altitude a HOST of such and other radioactive elements and your breathing it all! They did the toxic clothing bit to hide the sick pilots and air-crew.. what excuse shall be next… is the only question one must now ask! @j@


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      • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

        The invisible, odorless and tasteless manmade Nuclear Radiation Contamination ghost of death is lurking and now slinking its way into all your homes and into your towns.

        You never know where this invisible Nuclear ghost of death resides and he never ever stays in the same spot or location very long and he now goes/travels by many different new manmade element names…

        He is always seeking out your DNA, which he loves to infect with his newly created manmade energy signatures, which allows him to silently scramble your's and other's biological DNA … :(

        He is a very, very sneaky fellow and we should all take appropriate precautions..

        He is hoping to create an army and mankind is currently letting him! :(


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      • I was pulling 9 CPS and 15 CPS on airplane from HNL to Chicago. Same altitude, the 15 was more over rockies and east of rockies

        Have not investigated to see what is "normal"

        PER SECOND


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      • Arizonan Arizonan

        1957: "An important feature of this stratospheric world-wide fallout is the fact that the radioactive particles are, in effect, stored in the stratosphere, with a small fraction continuously dribbling down to the earth's surface….estimates based on the limited information available at present indicate that about 10 per cent of the debris stored in the stratosphere descends to earth annually…" p. 448, The Effects of Nuclear Weapons (Samuel Glasstone, DOD and AEC, 1957) US Gov Printing Office.

        So, the soil quantities of fission products will also continue to increase for the foreseeable future, just from the above-ground testing 1945-1963. Multiple sources of exposure for all of us, all the time, because of the Nuclear Age, which MUST be brought to an end, no matter what the industry-paid scientists ever say. There is no level of radiation so low that it will not cause genetic mutation. There is no level of plutonium inhalation so low that it will not cause cancer, if the organism lives long enough.


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        • john dpugh

          Arizonan SO even if they would stop the whole nuclear industry straight away , the radiation levels will keep rising for the next xxx years .


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          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            Best to stop producing more of this "Nuclear Crap" right now, while we still are able too.. :)


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          • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

            Cancer diagnosis rates around 3% in 1880 and now at 50% in 2014, going up to 87.5% after 2030, and Nuclear Background readings have increased 100%+ since 1880. The numbers do not lie….100%+ increase was produced by mankind and his Nuclear Technologies Applications… :(

            This is not natural of this Earth or of this Universe's behavior and the Earth is dying from this ongoing Nuclear Technology assault… :(

            How are the shell fish doing, the whales, the seals, the sea snot, the ozone holes etc., etc., etc. and it's all getting worse very quickly…


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            • Jacklab

              Its also the rise of modern technology, electrification, fossil fuel consumption, and also exponential population growth. Doesnt make sense to say on the one hand cancer rates are increasing, and not acknowledge population growth and the birth of the modern era. Your posts are all about just blaming nuclear. Look around you. For what its worth, coffee causes cancer, and coffee cures cancer. So what are you to believe?


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              • m a x l i

                I like coffee and I like energy.

                Whatever the side effects of coffee may be…it's my decision to drink it or not and I'm harming nobody else by drinking it. And I can't have coffee without coffee. Coffee gives me 100% of my coffee.

                Whereas nuclear reactors give us (world-wide average) less than 2% of our energy. We don't need them. And you want to decide to potentially harm me and others with it. That's the mindset of a slaveholder who thinks he has the right to take his slaves' live at his will.


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        • Fukushima High Altitude Radiation Plume – Hundreds of Flight Attendants Suffer Hair Loss, Skin Lesions; via @AGreenRoad
          http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/05/fukushima-hundreds-of-flight-attendents.html


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      • Jacklab

        Incorrect. If every radioactive element breaks every DNA strand of every person, the human race would not be here. Survival of the fittest is the rule, not the exception.


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    • dosdos dosdos

      It's the Church of the Holy Banana. Their tenets:
      All radiation is equal.
      Radiation is good for you.
      There is no difference in stem cell and normal cell reaction to radiation.
      Nuclear energy is safe and has zero carbon footprint.
      People are being hysterical over nothing.


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  • razzz razzz

    Admin got it right, 'Nuclear core has disintegrated' at Fukushima Unit 3', went right over the interviewer's head. Immediately went on to TEPCO being a bunch of idiots. Not even a pause to consider it.

    If vaporizing radioactive material is the worst then pulverizing is next in line. What the hellish heat didn't vaporize, the explosions pulverized. No recover from that. Core turns to dust and is free to ride the water or wind anywhere. Daiichi ground is now saturated with radioactive particles that the ground can't even hold it anymore. 550 tons of core material missing. Probably why it didn't melt through to earth in #3, never had the chance. Wish it would have, possible to recover a melt.


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  • Questionit

    Gundersen is just setting the cover story here.
    He says the powdered core has settled on the floor of the basement.
    That the govt of Japan will step in and solve the problem.
    Japan will/must hire an "international contractor" and it will be expensive.
    Says Fuku released more noble gases than Chernobyl – Zenon,Krypton
    Says Fuku released less cesium and iodine than Chernobyl
    Says Fuku is comparable to Chernobyl in overall health effects
    He does not mention plutonium
    Says there is no iodine left and it is not a problem

    Even using his story, if the core is powdered and in the water and the water is flowing out of the building then the core is out of the building.
    He does not mention the possibility the "powdered core" was released into the atmosphere as nano particles. And thus has been shared with everyone.
    Is the powdered core story just to cover up the coriums being in the ground?
    Who believes Fuku released Less cesium than Chernobyl?
    Who believes him when he again claims Fuku is comparable to Chernobyl in world health effects?
    Arnie again pimps for the "international contractors" and for them to be awarded "expensive" contracts.


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  • Well it's a little weird Gunderson mentions the core as a powder on a New Zealand radio show and not on his own broadcasts and web site. So if it's a powder what didn't escape into the air is dissolving into the Pacific. What to do? Buy a consumer radiation detector and get a false sense of security. You can't test the snow or rain for fallout. Can't test food with certainty. You need equipment that measures energy levels to identify isotopes. So we all get lied to and hope no plutonium is lodged in our bodies. Only the informed are angry. So yes they are spying on us and yes they are exposing us to radiation without our knowledge or consent and no they don't give a flying fuck about you or your children. Maybe not a conspiracy theory type scenario.
    Maybe worse.


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  • chevvvy chev

    It can be cleaned up Tiza,
    there is no will to do so ,
    thats all


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    • atomicistheword

      Chev,

      That would require expenditure!

      Have you ever seen a corporate director cry so hard as being charged fifty cents more for a cream bun. Then accept a raise of two million dollars, whilst the corporation is in financial hardship? Thus closing the corporation blaming the underlings for being uncompetitive in their work practices. If only they could get free labour just like those good old days, work 'em, burn 'em. Ford and IBM know all about that, while the vicar of God had tea and cakes with Adolph Hitler, even throwing him parties. I know truth and it has set me free.


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  • SadieDog

    Tepco to prepare for radioactive( he-he ) water, ( sorry, ha! ) water leaks…
    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/news/20140301_03.html


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  • FallOut FallOut

    Many suspect that Wakasugi is someone who works inside that system, as the details he includes in the book can only be known by an insider. The Asahi Shimbun newspaper managed to get an interview with the author late last year on the condition that his identity would still be protected. He describes a “nuclear village,” which includes the utilities, politicians, government bureaucrats, academics and others with vested interests, that are involved in the prototype Monju fast-breed reactor project in Tsuruga, Fukui Prefecture. This site has been mothballed due to various safety issues, but continues to be a main pillar of the nuclear recycling system of Japan. Government officials call it a “doodlebug,” meaning it is a money pit.

    In the book, an official from the Nuclear Regulation Authority was quoted as saying, “If we continue to operate conventional nuclear power plants, the byproduct will be nuclear waste that will emit radiation for 100,000 years. That is why Monju is so important.” The official admits that maintaining the illusion of the importance of the need for the Monju reactor is essential to keeping the “nuclear myth” alive. In an interview, Wakasugi said that a lot of the former and current politicians benefited from the money-collecting system they got from the electric industry, and so they will never move against them. They hold a power over the government when it comes to vetoing or approving nuclear-related policies.


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  • jackassrig

    H.E. Bethe – one of the architects of the A bomb – said in a paper "Theoretical Estimate of Maximum Possible Nuclear Explosion." pg. 8 "We shall further find that the temperature of the fuel will be between 5000 and 10000 degC; therefore, the uranium will evaporate and may, to some extent, be ionized." Maybe the corium is not in the ground. Maybe the corium is in the atmosphere. Maybe TEPCO knows this and is afraid to account for the corium floating around in the atmosphere.


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  • dosdos dosdos

    The core didn't disintegrate. It evaporated when it detonated, molten layers mixed together very rapidly from a shockwave. Most of it went into the atmosphere. The rest of it condensed onto everything inside the unit or got washed away by cooling water.


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  • Dodos. For us it is all speculation. For Tepco, insiders, allies and others the remote helicopters are sending real time scintillation crystal results back to the computers and Central Command whoever they really are. Valdez oil is still being washed up and they don't care about that either. Triple melt down dissolving into the Pacific.. Business as usual. God Bless folks.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Arnie is standing in front of a picture of water ..yet says it's in powder form..
    Might we call it.."Gravy Train".


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    PS.. In more ways than one..


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  • weegokiburi weegokiburi

    My final post before bed last night was watch R3.
    This was a bit weird to wake up to.
    Anyway just a thought.
    Is there still anything left of the spent fuel pool at unit 3?
    I looked at some pics last week and it seemed to me that the top floors of the building are gone. http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp/daiichi-photos.htm


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Hey Gregory, WHO's disaster is this again?

    Japan blocked presentations on nuclear effects at 1955 U.N. confab

    In a cable to the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo dated May 17, 1955, about three months before the U.N. meeting, then U.S. Secretary of State John Foster Dulles said the "Department (of State) understands Japan intends to submit…papers re effects of bombings Hiroshima and Nagasaki and Bikini incident."

    "Department and AEC (the Atomic Energy Commission) strongly opposed presentation papers (on) this subject at Conference and also even acceptance for inclusion (in) Conference proceedings," Dulles added.

    The seven papers included "Bio-medical Effects of Nuclear Energy," "Embryological Obstruction in Fishes and Crustacea by Fission Products," "Early Effects of Radiation Injury" and "The Effect of Radioactive Rainfalls on the Fresh-water Systems in Tokyo."

    In the end four papers, including the ones on the biomedical effects of nuclear energy and on the effects of radiation injury, were published as part of the conference proceedings. But none were orally presented during the conference, including the papers whose submission had been withdrawn.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/kyodo-news-international/140227/japan-blocked-presentations-nuclear-effects-at-1955-un

    The rest is history, so to speak…


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  • WWJD WWJD

    Mr. Gunderson – Any thoughts on the New Mexico WIPP plant accident?


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  • Sickputer

    I disagreed with the earlier theory (2011 Arnie) of the melted cores becoming a "pancake" pool on the last concrete floor foundation.

    That very thick last barrier before nuclear fissile fuel or runaway melted spent fuel pond assemblies might drop down to (at least in Units 1-6) the huge Common Spent Fuel Pond is in a ground level building just like the recently restarted Ft. Calhoun NPP near Omaha which may not be the best place for ground level 10,000 year dangerous rods to be stored with the Missouri River capable of washing the rods out if their cooling pool.

    The pancake theory has evolved to a sediment/powderized theory for a 5,000 degree Celsius fissile fuel meltdown and melt-through of the dodgey 6 inch thick reactor vessel …designed with holes in the bottom for boron rod insertions…what genius engineering during the building design. Newer models have control rod holes on the top of the steel reactor vessel.

    The Swiss embassy January 2014 diagram showed the melted core down in the subsoil.

    http://enenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Full_Cross.jpg

    Nobody has proven or disproven that assertion. There were three meltdowns and the diagram did not indicate which unit had a runaway core.

    It could be argued that if a core did burn through the last building layer then all cooling water would quickly drain down that exit tunnel (unless the core migrated laterally to the sea shore.

    Lots of questions, few answers.


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Sorry this should be in quotes.

    Sickputer:

    "It could be argued that if a core did burn through the last building layer then all cooling water would quickly drain down that exit tunnel (unless the core migrated laterally to the sea shore."

    They try walling it up ..and groundwater rises.
    Even if they pumped tons daily..at this point it should be manageable…considering there is supposedly some sort of containment..the water injected coming from a duct taped hose.
    The walling action traps the groundwater ..below the reactors.
    The true amount flowing ..untold.


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  • I have posted all the data by the inspector on site during the meltdowns a number of times..

    http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/E4sQOura/_online.html#dir=N03czkvC


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  • jec jec

    @pattieB, the inspector does Gamma, and beta, right? It does not do alpha. So..PU is mainly alpha(some gamma but mostly alpha)..or am I incorrect? So Inspectors which are really one of the best out there..might find the gamma from Am241, the daughter of PU. Is there a way to figure out or calculate PU from that? Just curious..and If I am way way off..just tell me. PU is alpha, like polonium..also a wicked isotope, which daughter is a lead isotope. I guess we could find lead, see if radiative lead which to ID polonium. PU has me concerned…..


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  • Nick

    Detecting radiation can obviously be obfuscated in attempts to placate.

    I get the sense from this thread that many folks can't wrap their brain-pans around the implications of a powdered core?

    I can't really either, but I'll try.

    1. Saying it's powder implies it is held in solution in the murky waters that churn and boil at the site, in trenches/tunnels/wrecked basements, etc.

    2. Not mentioning atmospheric discharges is standard industry tactics. (notice how we tend to FOCUS on the water issues? Why? Because it helps to deflect our attention AWAY from atmospheric dumps and wafts)

    3. Regardless, the radioactive toxicity just might be worse than a molten blob fizzing underground, with way more surface area for contact with other atoms.

    4. The nano-sized bits in the atmosphere will NEVER be known, since we really aren't supposed to think about it.

    5. Just watch videos of #1 and #3 go kaboom.

    6. Until dust do us part….


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  • unincredulous unincredulous

    We all need to stop cussing, dress a little nicer, floss, and start lying when our fingers type. We have been criticized for having a low grade discussion forum.

    I'll start…

    Fukushima is fixed. We are all happy. The animals want to kill themselves, ok. I can live with that. I am just sitting here enjoying a bowl of GMO brand cereal in milk. I sprinkle the rBad enzymes from Monsanto on my cereal. It makes you strong. Sorry guys, soccer match to go to. Laters :) :roll:


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  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "We have been criticized for having a low grade discussion forum."

    Why?.. because we get data and run with it..
    Instead it beating it to death ..
    Why?.. because we can blend the other aspects of human cognition ..and offer a vision of world and circumstance ..beyond model, mock-ups and the endless blather of scientific debate?

    (This being what they want ..the droning noise ..the blur of facts)

    Why? ..the answer ..yet another base emotion of Humans ..jealousy.

    My advice to them.

    "Sod off'.


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  • clyn clyn

    The people of Japan have know for a long time that they have been dangerously and in some cases fatally radiated. This why youth are avoiding having children.


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  • Jebus Jebus

    Gundersen: “Nuclear core has disintegrated” at Fukushima Unit 3

    The light of truth is shining like two suns on this thread.

    All the shills and trolls prove this. It burns their exoskeleton.

    They will fly around in here and vomit their lies.

    Like bugs to the light, they bounce off the bulb repeatedly.

    Eventually they fall to the ground, their little legs wiggling in the air.

    Step on them and put them out of their misery…


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  • From 2012:

    Mr. Yastel Yamada, a retired engineer and founder of the volunteer Fukushima Skilled Veterans Corps, has suggested that the fuel from the reactors may possibly be in powder form

    ‘I Don’t Know What Would Happen: Fuel from Fukushima Reactors May Be Powder’ (28 September 2012), Enenews, http://enenews.com/dont-happen-future-fuel-fukushima-reactors-be-powder-work-almost-impossible-video/comment-page-1#comment-291586, date accessed 28 September 2012 (Uploaded by: OccupyUkiah 30 July 2012).


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    • Science facts. The only way it could be powder, is if they poured sand on it, rather than water at the time of meltdown.
      If they had done so, the cores would still be inside the buildings.
      The poured salt-water on it, so caused increased heat via fission due to water being a reflector under such conditions ONLY.

      The water is then flashed to steam, never even touching the mass of corium due to the temperatures being far to high. But still, such water reflects back the neutrons and causes increased fission to happen… the reactors also had issues with the control rods falling out of the bottom during hard quakes. It didn't NEED to burn out of the PCV.. it drooled out the control-rod holes in the bottom and burned through the concrete floor very quickly. The hydrogen gas was formed as the corium hit the water table under the reactors.


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    • Angela_R

      Hi majia,
      I have provided a link to the Fukushima Nuclear Accident Update log on a number of occasions, you may have already seen it, however here is a short extract from an entry made on 15th March 2011:
      "All three explosions were due to an accumulation of hydrogen." This statement referred to Units 1, 2 and 3.
      With regard to Unit 4, it was stated
      "A fire at unit 4 occurred on 14th March at 23.54 UTC and lasted two hours."

      Considerable information has been supplied in this log which dates from 11 March 2011 to 2 June 2011. I seem to recall reading somewhere about the core meltdowns, however unsure whether it was in this log.
      http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/2011/fukushima150311.html


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  • m a x l i

    @Jacklab
    It looks as if you are the one "playing a card". It's the card the priests of the nuclear cult are always playing: Nobody can prove that the particular health problem/sickness/birth defect/death/still birth of a certain person is caused by radioactive decay of relatively short-lived man-made isotopes coming from nuclear reactors and circulating in our biosphere – so everything is fine, lessons learned from TMI (later lessons learned from Chernobyl, lessons learned from Fukushima, lessons learned from WIPP, what's next to learn lessons from? and what's the next after that?) and we can move forward and produce more tonnes of those many different isotopes that would not be here on 4.6 billion-years-old earth (or at least only in orders of magnitude lower amounts) if 'we' (or rather you) wouldn't produce them by splitting atoms in half.

    Here is the high-level discussion you want to see: Are you denying that by producing ever more amounts of radioactive contaminants, releasing them into our biosphere where they will be added to the already present radioactivity (natural plus man-made) there will be people whose quality of live will be diminished health-wise and/or whose live will be shortened – all caused by that activity?


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  • Shillbullshit007

    It seems to be the case that most officials are peadophiles who have to do what they do to stop their employers exposing them….


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  • weegokiburi weegokiburi

    I have to take issue. Sorry.
    Paedophiles haunt all walks of society from top to bottom.
    And are to be exposed and despised
    But.

    No connection nuke problem.


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  • Here's a chard direct from the NRC files.. on the reactor issues on-going. This also says SPECIFICALLY that there have been more core problems and such than ever got to the news folks!

    http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Pattie_Brassard/media/Nuclear%20Facts/ReactorfailurechartNRC_zps30f1375e.jpg.html?sort=3&o=23


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