Published: June 19th, 2012 at 11:17 am ET
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Fairewinds’ Gundersen on Capitol Forum: Fukushima Daiichi and the Nuclear Picture in the US and Internationally
Capitol Forum w/ Tom Ritter
June 10, 2012
At ~28:00 in
Gundersen: I bought the [iodine] pills, but here in Vermont I didn’t use them.
I told my friends on the west coast, in the Casades, you should use them.
Download the audio here
Published: June 19th, 2012 at 11:17 am ET
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sending...
The only Iodine we had here at home was the External kind. We swabbed huge patches on ourselves over a 10 day period while waiting for our Spirulina/Chlorella & Nascent Iodine to arrive.
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We did this on 3/11… We tried to go to our local Pharmacy to get Iodine pills…the pharmacist refused to sell them to us! (Im sure he was TOLD to not give any out!). Hence waiting for our online order to arrive.
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radiation monitoring, debris tracking and jet streams with mitigation protocols to share with loved ones and friends
http://realitycheck.no-ip.info/forum/index.php/board,24.0.html
Fukushima fallout forecasts and other rad updates
http://realitycheck.no-ip.info/nnn.html
for those interested in alerting your reps
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
http://www.usembassy.gov/
still so much that can be done … sans iodide pills
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Popping iodine pills can have serious side effects, see Wikipedia. The pharmacist was right to refuse selling the pills.
"The World Health Organization does not recommend KI prophylaxis for adults over 40 years, unless inhaled radiation dose levels are expected to threaten thyroid function; because, the KI side effects increases with age and may exceed the KI protective effects "…unless doses to the thyroid from inhalation rise to levels threatening thyroid function, that is of the order of about 5 Gy. Such radiation doses will not occur far away from an accident site."[25]"
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Excuse me, but I would not be "POPPING" iodine pills Nilly-Willy.
Do you believe everyone is Ignorant?
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whoa Cindy! You're responding to a post that may not have been directed to you. cbuchner1's information may be valuable and worthy of consideration. I'd personally plead guilty to being 'ignorant' on this topic, as I don't understand the meaning behind the abbreviated references within their posts. Still, much of what we exchange and encounter out here is worthy of consideration.
BTW. Have I seen some of your posts on Natural News? I seem to remember seeing your avatar there…
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Hi Aftershock! Yah.. I'm a Huge Fan of Mike Adams over at Natural News. I kinda "bounce" all over! Tee-hee!
On the other, I guess what set me off was the "Popping of pills" line then telling me the Pharmacist was Right. That, to me, was slightly insulting. I, personally, would never take anything without reading and understanding the pro's and cons. I've come home w/ prescriptions from my Dr that once I read about the meds he has prescribed..I toss them in the trash.
Now Arnie comes out Today and says that All West Coast residents should have taken their Iodine. Interesting, huh?
I know you've been around for some time too! Nice to see "familiar" names/avatars here.
Take care,
Cindy
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Cindy, it wasn't available on the West Coast (potassium iodide or potassium iodate) unless one had special access. My family took potassium iodate from 3/15 – 3/17 (three days). We were only able to do that because we had purchased it five years previously (sometime in 2006).
There are a lot of things we should have done. We should have sheltered indoors for at least a week, IMHO. I had the strong feeling I should be wearing a mask one morning when I went outside (the first Sunday after 3/11); that might have been 3/18. I went around and taped over all my unused electrical inlets in the house, taped off all the areas where excess air was getting into the garage, caulked the windows, weatherstripped the doors, and ran electric heaters for a couple of weeks, most of the time. We started detox baths, and cleaning our shoes and clothing after each trip outdoors.
Was it enough? We may never know.
We didn't have a good HEPA filter system inside the house. That alone, and the need to go outside to do the normal things involved in life might have been enough to prove lethal, in the long run.
We are in the S.F. Bay Area, and I'm pretty sure we got slammed hard here. We had a deluge of rain for three straight weeks starting on about 3/15. There were incredibly large and violent thunderstorms here. The "old timers" had never seen anything like it.
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Informative article on iodine:
http://zerotoherotv.com/iodine-to-the-rescue/
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While I know first hand of some of the effects of iodine supplementation, I would suggest skepticism with anything the WHO has to say on the matter.
However, even the WHO says, "unless inhaled radiation dose levels are expected to threaten thyroid function," and with a minimum of 40,000,000 Bq of iodine-131 hitting the U.S., combined with rampant iodine deficiency in the U.S., I'd say that Cindy's pharmacist is one of many to be proven wrong.
40,000,000 Bq of iodine-131 in a single bed of kelp off Southern California — Amount most likely larger
http://enenews.com/40000000-bq-of-iodine-131-in-a-single-bed-of-kelp-off-southern-california-amount-most-likely-larger
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I personally don't give a damn what the WHO or any other UN stooge says. People should make up their own minds what steps they want to take to protect their own health. UN is owned by the rockerfellers anyway, and we all know what their agenda is. Nothing they do is for the benefit of humanity. Ever.
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I wanted to buy some and my doctor laughed at me
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He's probably not laughing now. Word's out.
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I would have laughed right back at him.
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Oh.. Good one! Wished I would have thought of that!
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Try it!
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Your doctor sounds like a 'tard. A 'tard doctor laughed when I said I'd been infected with Lyme disease. It almost killed me. Some smart docs I now see have been finding high Cesium levels in many of their patients, here in CA, USA (SF Bay Area).
And hey, no knock on people with mental disabilities intended. I was thinking along the lines of the Shay-Tards (people living near Hollywood who are famous for making themselves famous on Youtube).
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Cindy, here's one for you …. A friend of mine has a very funny and witty brother. He says, when anyone talks to him in a condescending manner, "You couldn't possibly be speaking to ME in that tone of voice" (or manner) … "could you?"
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We had Lugol's iodine on hand, fortunately. I had been taking it for a month or 2 and giving my children small doses of it as well before the accident happened. There are many with thyroid issues in my area, most likely due to living near Hanford and CGS, so I have always been concerned about thyroid health.
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Gundersen's friends were lucky, aren't they? Especially if he is is making clear to them now that the radioactive releases are on-going, haven't stopped, and are particularly coming down in the rain, in the Cascades, in Vermont and the rest of the Northern Hemisphere.
I just ran into Arto Lauri's theory of the Methane layer, which is basically that the explosions at Fukushima destabilized the layer of methane (<2000 meters), not just in Japan, but around the earth. Since nuclear plants have shafts deep into earth, the destabilized methane layer threatens to cause problems, explosions at nuclear plants around the world.
Some say the threat posed by the methane layer is the reason why Germany and Japan shut down all of their nuclear plants. It could also explain why there have been so many explosions at nuclear plants in the countries that have not shut down nuclear, in Russia, in France, in the U.S., as well as the loud "booms" heard, the massive die offs in the oceans far from radiation.
Arto Lauri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V71EclYZm2c
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane
Below is an outline:
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none of the causalities that AL attributes to Fukushima can be substantiated. His initial claim that an 'ionization nail' (resulting from you-know-what) caused a piezo-effect on the underlying strata is pure speculation. The actual earthquake that lead to the tsunami, occurred out a sea.
What better way to muddy the waters than to put someone out here who has the credentials to do so. I'm hoping, Stichen's planet will rapture us good guys to a safe and peaceful world…
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XDrFox posted some info. on marine mammal die-offs in the Arctic. They were said to have occurred, in part, near areas in the Arctic where massive methane bubbles have come from under the sea.
It wasn't clear if the methane or possibly radiation killed the marine mammals.
Interesting hypothesis, thanks NoNukes.
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Krsanna Duran
http://answerpot.com/showthread.php?3409064-HAARP+in+Fukushima+and+methane+heating
10. Reactors 1 and 3 exploded and pushed the heat directly into the bedrock.
11. Methane accumulation about 2 meters below Japan began heating and affected a pressure balance that must be maintained. The temperature at that level should be 2 degrees Celsius but high heat had been continually pushed into the soil and rocks beneath Fukushima.
12.
Neutrons leaking from the reactors drilled pipe-like holes into the bedrock.
13. The volume of methane accumulation under reactor 4 increased by 168 times. This is the theory of Nils-Axel Morner.
14. Reactor 4, which contained no uranium, exploded with a blue flame that shot 1 km into the air and blew out a 14-metre thick wall. (Fairewinds speculated about a hydrogen explosion while considering the sparse information available during the event.) All the reactors had exploded like a chain.
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15. Methane surrounds the earth at a depth of 600 meters and is 1 kilometer wide. Germany realized the danger of the unstable methane layer and shut down its reactors.
Numerous fires at nuclear plants followed the Fukushima catastrophe and signs of heating of the magma (lava) at numerous volcanic sites in the Pacific followed. The number of large earthquakes of 5 to 6 magnitudes and greater increased throughout the Pacific and worldwide following the radical meltdowns of nuclear reactors at Fukushima. The extinct Nardo volcano in Eritrea (Africa), which had not been active in at least 11,000 years, erupted in July 2011.
Krsanna Duran
http://answerpot.com/showthread.php?3409064-HAARP+in+Fukushima+and+methane+heating
Arto Lauri
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V71EclYZm2c
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Hi Nonukes, let me reassure you that noone in our parliament has ever thought of the methane layer as a reason to shut down reactors….
*peace
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This is an interesting part of the outline. Nils-Axel Morner is more of a known quantity in Europe than the United States. If anyone has a link for his study of methane accumulation under reactor 4, please share
"13. The volume of methane accumulation under reactor 4 increased by 168 times. This is the theory of Nils-Axel Morner."
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Oh, no.
I just found a link to a talk (in part) on methane by Nils-Axel Mörner, Head of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics at Stockholm University (1991-2005) in 2008. (I believe that he is best known for his work on sea levels.)
http://nonuclear.se/sv/morner20080426.html
"4. Methane explosions
In my book “Paleoseismicity of Sweden – a novel paradigm” (2003), I was able to show that the Fennoscandian bedrock, indeed, had experienced several explosions in the past when methane ice (in voids, hollows and fractures) transformed into gas when rock pressure decreased (with the land uplift) and temperature rose (after the Ice Age) or the pressure was suddenly altered in association with earthquake events. The last event occurred 2000 BP and set up a tsunami wave of 20 m.
This novel factor is not yet considered in the nuclear waste handling programs. Still, it effectively invalidates all talk about a safe long-term deposition."
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Good find NoNukes.
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More from Nils-Axel Mörner, Head of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics at Stockholm University (1991-2005) on Methane, methane hydrate explosively turned into methane gas:
"Our group have documented and described this novel factor where methane hydrate in the bedrock is explosively transformed into methane gas. This is recorded geochemically in the varved sediments. It is also recorded as violent bedrock tectonization when the ice explosively is transformed into gas. The last event occurred as late as 2000 BP, and it set up a 20 m high tsunami wave."
[PDF]
From: Nils-Axel Mörner Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 6:35 AM To
http://www.ceaa.gc.ca/050/documents/54635/54635E.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – Quick View
Feb 20, 2012 – my monograph “Paleoseismicity of Sweden – a novel paradigm (2003) describes 54 paleoseismic events in details (today we have a …
LOTS of diagrams, from pg. 41
"The idea is that the seismic wave kicked methane hydrate to change phase into methane gas, which would generate explosive venting of methane (Mörner, 2003)."
1. [PDF]
Paleoseismicity and Uplift of Sweden
http://www.33igc.org/fileshare/…/No%2011%20%20Palaeoseismisity.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML
Besides the excursion guide, much reference will be made to the monograph (Mörner,2003). “Paleoseismicity of Sweden – a novel paradigm” (which will …
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I'm no 'Global Warmist', but maybe the whole 'Global Warming' campaign is really to prevent the Earth from warming up and all the underground methane blowing.
Whether GW is man-made or not (obviously, somewhere in between), and whether or not it's a cyclic natural occurrence, having large pockets of methane explode would cause a problem or two.
OTOH, if it won't happen in the next 40 years, I think we have another priority right now. After 40-60 years, blow away, we won't be here.
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No need for explosions. Just wait until (soon) Sibirian perma frost soil thaws and releases its massive methane content. Irreversible, deadly without kaboom.
And indeed caused by humans to the largest extent.
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Time Is Short,
Please let me take this opportunity to thank you for all of your excellent work on Enenews. You have many fans.
Since you bring up global warming, I will mention that Nils-Axel Mörner is best known for his critique of the theory of sea level rise, he seems to claim that the sea level is not increasing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils-Axel_M%C3%B6rner
Mörner disagrees with the view of future rise in sea level caused by global warming.[5] Mörner's self-published 2007 20-page booklet The Greatest Lie Ever Told[6] , refers to observational records of sea levels for the past 300 years that show variations – ups and downs, but no significant trend.[7]
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Self-published? So no scientific journal would?
Just wondering…
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Quite a mouthful of theories, eh, BreadandButter?
Now that you mention it, the Wiki description of his publications is strange, not the normal list of titles over a 30 year career, wonder why this one is different?
Found these partial listings:
http://www.pog.nu/06publications/publication.htm
http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n79-018470
Found this memorandum on the sea level issue:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldeconaf/12/12we18.htm
He seems to have been a critic of the nuclear industry since at least 1977:
http://nonuclear.se/waste2007morner
From the talk in 2008:
"All parts of the nuclear power chain pose serious threats to environment and human health. The quarrying of uranium has a shameful history, which should be remembered and reviewed today when there are forces working for intensified uranium mining, not least in Finland. The fabrication of nuclear fuel is not without contamination problems (even in Sweden, we note “an increase of uranium in the lungs and urea of the workers”, 1980). The nuclear power plants are all potential centres for mega-disasters like that of Chernobyl – the reason for why we speak up this very day, 20 years after the disaster, in honour of all dead and wounded, and with the clear message “may it never happen again”
http://nonuclear.se/sv/morner20080426.html
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" Tuvalu in the Pacific is often said already to be in the flooding mode. The tide-gauge record (Fig 7) for the last 25 years does not show any rise, however. The truth seems to be that a Japanese pineapple industry had subtracted too much freshwater by that forcing saltwater to invade the subsurface."
HA! It was the Japanese pineapples, not global warming, phew!
Interesting links though, NoNukes, I'll read in depth later!
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lol, Nils is news to me, I didn't count on leading us into global warming.
The theory of the threat of the methane layer is interesting because it would help explain
1. increase in earthquakes
2. increase in nuclear plant explosions
3. the shut down of so many nuclear reactors
4. mass die offs
5. unusual sounds
I have been skeptical of climate change skeptics. That said, no one seems to hate anti-nuclear Nils-Axel Mörner as much as pro-nuclear, climate change activist George Monbiot,
"Why Fukushima made me stop worrying and love nuclear power"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/21/pro-nuclear-japan-fukushima
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/dec/02/spectator-sea-level-claims
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6.0 – Aleutian Islands
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/index.php?pageid=seism_index&rid=254449
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Several months time ago Arnie Gunderson was in a video discussing the results of testing car air filters for hot particles.
You can now have your own car and home air filters tested at no cost (gratis, free, no strings) courtesy of KI4U, Inc. This is a federally licensed testing and calibration lab in operation for more than a decade. They are good people. All you have to do is ship the filter. They report back via email.
A website has been established to promote this public service.
http://radtest4u.com
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"…Federally licensed testing…"
Nope, no truth there.
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My bad. "Should have been "Fully" licensed.
Yes, they do need licenses for some of the calibrators they have in their lab.
Sorry about that.
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@scintillator: thanks for that info- shared!
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For complete clarity on the subject of prophylactic use of potassium iodide during a nuclear emergency, visit the following site:
http://www.KI4U.com
Everything you wanted to know.
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http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4867
Tincture of iodine keeps radiation away – possible home remedy in event of nuclear plant mishap
Researchers at Pennsylvania State University's medical center in Hershey have stumbled onto what may be an effective home remedy to prevent serious radioactive contamination of the thyroid gland from iodine-131 emitted in the event of a major nuclear plant mishap. They swab the skin with a tincture of iodine.
Of the many radioactive gases that can be emitted during a nuclear plant release, iodine-131 causes special concern. Because iodine is readily accumulated in the thyroid, exposure to radioactive iodine can lead to serious, concentrated doses in the small metabolism-regulating gland. For years scientists have considered prescribing community-wide ingestion of potassium iodide in regions downwind of a serious nuclear accident to block the thyroid's uptake of radioactive iodine.
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In a pinch, most of you should be able to easily find KI USP in almost any high school or university chemistry lab…
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EPA posted this on all the monitors (that I checked) during, and after the accident.
"To-date, levels recorded at this monitor have been thousands of times below any conservative level of concern."
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Whose level of concern?
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EXACTLY! obviously not the citizen's concern!
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I made an observation comment here back in Sept. 2011 about an experience I had in May of 2011.
“Vibrating Feeling” [excerpt from link]
EnviroReporter.com comment archives. – May 13, 2011
“…over the last week I have had 3 people, who know little to nothing about what’s going on make a statement that seemed down right odd to me. It really seemed strange because a couple of days prior to the first person’s statement I felt the same thing, but I “sluffed” it off as allergies or psychological. (or both)
Each of these people, independently, and at separate times said, “Wow, it feels like my THYROID is vibrating!”. They were almost word for word. I did not say anything because I am not a Medical Professional and I would not want anyone to panic or give someone false information. My reply was, it’s probably just allergies. But, I have to admit it, I was silently thinking, this is VERY weird. Especially since I’ve never heard anyone say that before in my life and then, 3 times in one week. hmmm… I thought?”
I thought this should be noted for future historical purposes.
The enenews link:
http://enenews.com/discussion-thread-september-12-18-2011/comment-page-1#comment-129975
Dang! My gut feeling was probably right.
Our agencies that should have warned us, instead screwed us in the name of stopping panic. At least that's what they'll most likely say anyway. In return they have sacrificed long term illness' and suffering for many innocent people.
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Vibrating Thyroid – Symptom of Grave's Disease
Risks and Symptoms of Graves' Disease and Hyperthyroidism
Risk Factors, Triggers, Causes, Signs and Symptoms
By Mary Shomon, About.com Guide
Updated June 17, 2008
http://thyroid.about.com/od/hyperthyroidismgraves/a/risks-symptoms.htm
Goiter — The most common symptom of Graves' disease is goiter, an enlargement of the thyroid, with symptoms that can include a visibly larger neck, a feeling of fullness in the neck or throat, discomfort with ties or scarves, a feeling like the thyroid is vibrating or buzzing, a choking sensation, pain or tenderness in the neck or hoarseness.
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"Three Mile Island independent research and Fukushima discussion that comes AFTER the Gunderson interview by Caldicott… is also very important. As I listened, at around 35 to 36 minutes in the researcher, Ilene, stated that people at TMI reported a metallic taste and ‘tingling’ sensations.
Also from original link.
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Any more news on infant mortality for the West Coast?
I expect this should start occurring here as well:
Children in Fukushima have started to suffer from severe health hazards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=172yLH06YWw&feature=relmfu
Severely malformed babies have been killed in Japan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2dghS1otAw&feature=relmfu
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This is a most wonderful product that includes Iodine and trace minerals. matol KM,
http://us.univera.com/products/vitalize/matolkm
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Gundersen: I bought the [iodine] pills, but here in Vermont I didn’t use them.
I told my friends on the west coast, in the Casades, you should use them.
Should have used them????
Maybe they would have used them if the ** Radnet wasn't shut off….
Maybe if the govermant used the machinery we bought them that measures radiation everywhere on the planet and then if they had told us what they found, told use of the high level of radiation….WE WOULD HAVE!!!!
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I was actually under the impression that arnold gunderson actually stated in a past interview during the first following weeks with reuters, that west coast citizens should not go to the measures of taking iodine suppliments…
But now here he is saying completely the opposite?
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Hi Tacomagroove
I know someone had said not to take that, thought it was Arnie also (could be wrong). I could not find it.
My heart sank when reading he told his friends they should be taking those pills. Not sure why he didn't shout it from the roof that information to everyone.
I still thank him for the information he has given. I'll take any information I can get.
Disappointed that the rest of the public wasn't told to take them. Professional Information only for friends, should not happen.
This is not the time for professionals to hold back information.
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Morning WindSolarPlease,
yesterday, when I read this headline for the first time, my initial thought was "well, at least a banner with info on the Faireweinds website would've been a nice gesture".
Today, I think I understand better why he didn't:
he's not in a position to tell millions of citizens what to do. Imagine people "popping pills" bcause "expert Mr Gundersen said I should take them".
He'd probably be sued for any occuring health problems.
But I don't understand why he said he warned his friends. He should've known that this was seen as an "unfriendly act" by many.
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Morning BreadAndButter, it's really early here..lol..
When you are a professional in the publics eye informing many, you have placed yourself as being a reliable person for people to count on.
I think it's a good idea to warn people when you know something.
I have seen when you find out something, you let it be known, you brave lady.))))
There are ways to mention things without having law suits and holding him legally responsible for what he writes or says.
Professionals who withhold information can also cause health problems.
He is an intelligent man, I think he could have found a way to give out this information.
I honestly think this is not the time to hold back information.
It does make me question what other information have we missed?
Like I have said he has given us information, I honestly thank him for what he has told us, he has stuck his neck out confirming things, and he probably has gotten in hot water by telling the public.
Which is why I'm thankful I'm not intelligent, hot water is not fun to be in.
The gift of having intelligence, is it your responsibility to share what you know, when something is dangerous?
Can you look in the mirror if you don't?
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"The information presented here … " (may include "is a matter of the author's opinion, etc., and) " …is not meant to be construed as medical advice, nor is it intended to replace the advice of a medical professional."
Check out the disclaimers on websites where health claims are made or health is discussed in relation to things like supplements ….
IMHO this would have opened a can of worms for him. The best that might have been hoped for could have been a statement like, "for those with concerns about possible radiation expsoure, please consult with your personal physician."
People get prosecuted for anything which can be construed as practicing medicine without a license.
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That was "exposure" in the next to last paragraph ….
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