Published: August 22nd, 2012 at 12:25 am ET
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Regarding the recent test results that detected plutonium at 10 locations in Fukushima, Fairewinds’ Arnie Gundersen writes to ENENews:
Pu came from the damaged fuel rods, obviously. The question is whether it was the damaged rods inside U1/2/3 reactors or whether it was the U3 spent fuel pool. Given U1/2/3 had a containment around the cores (even if damaged), this data leads me to continue to believe that the U3 SFP detonation is the most likely location for the release.
When asked if the plutonium could have been transported by smoke from the burning fuel rods inside the reactors, Gundersen replies:
Burning is oxidation, so U or Pu combines with oxygen to create U oxide… just like Carbon combines with oxygen to make CO2…. small micron size particles….. I think the Pu at Fuku is raw, unoxidized, blown out, not burned
Published: August 22nd, 2012 at 12:25 am ET
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sending...
Was that the "radium" bottles or radium tubes that kept being found in the first months of the disaster? Could they have been fuel cells?
Did someone photograph the "containers?"
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I'm so tired of this bullshit. I want to get out of here. Having to check where all your food comes from! No lettuce now cuz it's all from Nagano. How beef from Shimane, next to Hiroshima, ended up with cesium in it, I'll never know. Where to go?
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RJ. Where about's are you? Are you single or with family?
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RJ: "Where to go?" Away.
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Really doesn't seem like it's going to get better or going to just go away…so you better decide soon what matters most to you.
Because radiatio is invisible it's hard to image how it might be in the food we eat, the air we breath, the water we drink. It's not just in Japan, but granted you are closer to the source living in Japan.
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@Kitman Hiroshima
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Married, no kids
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@RJ
"How beef from Shimane, next to Hiroshima, ended up with cesium in it, I'll never know"
That's because tons of Fukushima beef has been labeled and sold as beef from safe area. That's why.
Hiroshima isn't as bad but you'll get it through food that's been mislabelled (purposely). People have been escaping to Phillipines because the place is very cheap to live and they speak English. Easy to get visa or permanent residency. Amazingly cheap air ticket, cheaper than if you were to fly from Hiroshima to Hokkaido, crazy huh!?
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Arnie, Arnie, Arnie,
SFP or RPV, no one has shown any rock solid proof either way.
Convictions abound, including myself, as my eyes tell me from the #3 explosion video. The best proof to date, and it doesn't really matter where the plutonium came from, it was ejected skyhigh, to fall where it may. Containment was catastrophically breached!
PLUTONIUM was released massively into the earth's ecosystem, again!
A man made radionuclide, capable of killing everything alive, in miniscule quantities. Lasting for eons, it has the potential to kill, or mutate, in every cycle of the circle of life…
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"I think the Pu at Fuku is raw, unoxidized, blown out, not burned"
I tend to think it's massive amounts of both, the majority percentage of which is highly aerosolized. All blown sky high into the jetstream for global distribution at 150-300 miles per hour/241 to 482 kilometers per hour:
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/Jet_Stream/DI68.htm
Just a few days to travel the planet. Billions upon billions of lethal doses. And that's just the plutonium . . .
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If this jet stream used for electricity production in such a way
http://www.new4stroke.com/balloon.jpg
http://www.new4stroke.com/4turbines.jpg
http://www.new4stroke.com/images/turbo.
Atomic power plants could be close…..
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http://www.new4stroke.com/images/turbo.jpg
http://www.new4stroke.com/images/windtunnel.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3n5cUaG5fg&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu2glpmRXIs&feature=player_embedded#!
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Parwie provided a great link on what it takes to overdose a person from plutonium http://www.ccnr.org/max_plute_aecb.html
There are quite a few links from Sickputer and me on plutonium from Fukushima in this thread
http://enenews.com/plutonium-detected-ten-locations-fukushima-health-hazard
'night all…
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Do we know how many fuel rod bundles were stored in SFP-3?
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Integrity Inspection of Dry Storage Casks and Spent Fuels at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. November 16, 2010. http://www.nirs.org/reactorwatch/accidents/6-1_powerpoint.pdf
The report states "Approximately 700 spent fuel assemblies are generated every year" (p. 9)
3,450 assemblies in each pool
6291 assemblies in common spent fuel pool
REPORT has no data on how much fuel was in the reactor itself but it does tell us how many rods were in the spent fuel pool.
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One source suggests that unit 3’s reactor core contained a range of 164 to 32 mox assemblies. The low-end estimate of 32 mox assemblies is from France’s Areva, which provided the fuel for unit 3.
As the French Fukushima 3/11 Watchdog group points out, the low-end estimate of 32 mox assemblies translates into 5.5 tons of fuel containing more than 300 kg of plutonium: “300 kg is therefore equivalent to 300 billion lethal doses.”
Fukushima 311 Watchdogs. MOX fuel-Corium-Plutonium in Fukushima Daiichi, http://www.fukushima311watchdogs.org/biblio/9/Mox%20fuel-corium-plutonium%20in%20Fukushima%20Daiichi.pdf.
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88 tons of fuel in SFP3, with another 100 tons in Reactor3, according to Scientific AmericaN article, quoted here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115×280160
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“300 kg is therefore equivalent to 300 billion lethal doses.”
That's the low estimate. On the high estimate, that's 1,539 billion lethal doses, or over a trillion and a half.
And it only takes one, with a 100% kill rate.
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Thank you Admin for contacting Arnie Gundersen for us and thanks to Arnie for taking the time to answer.
This is just great.
Did I say today I love this site?
I love this site.
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we asked the gundie man a question? and he answered! wow!
he used the plutonium word b n b
a hero!
maybe know someone will start a thorough check for the fukushima plutonium.. great start (1 and a half years later)
RIPCO are really on it!
how do you test a large area for small, maybe nano sized particles?
should be interesting..
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Arnie publicly talked about plutonium the day after Reactor 3 blew.
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"how do you test a large area for small, maybe nano sized particles?"
With very small zirconium-encrusted tweezers.
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Mammals will evolve into jelly humans, because life will try to incorporate the pu into bone, teeth, and nails and find out that when just 1 atom undergoes SF the crystal structure will crack. What ever happened to bones?
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"What ever happened to bones?"
Ask the Chernobyl kids.
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Seriously people. Arnie gundersen is an anti nuclear activist ,his opinions and views are biased at best. Forget all the speculations and theories and focus on the facts. The media is all over this reporting every detail ad nausium. Read the scientific reports and ignore the scare tactics of people like this. He makes a living of raising speculative doubts and fears. He exaggerates numbers and feeds off the most base fears of the general public. No one has died due to radiation from fukushima and the facts bear out that the harm will be minute if any. I consider his tactics akin to the weekly world news stories that scream of bat boys and alien mutations.
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I'll take your bait, nuke roadie. All your arguments could be reasonable and true as long as we all ignore a rather significant factor – time. It is through time that tissue damage from low level radiation occurs – time to bioaccumulate. That you ignore the one fact that would make all your claims meaningless and false suggests that it is you that has an agenda – an agenda to ignore what you don't want to believe. You don't get to change the rules of physics and the universe in order to win the argument. You have to stick to the rules, all the rules, including the rules of nuclear physics if you want to play here with any credibility. There are many here who exaggerate to make a point, but Arnie isn't one of them. There is a standing invitation made by some on this site to those who claim the superior safety of nuclear substances – stand beside one of the Fukushima reactors without all that unnecessary protective clothing and breathing apparatus and send us a picture.
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Seriously nuke roadie. Take the pro nuke stuff anywhere else. We've seen your kind come and go here for a long time.
P.S. It's written "ad nauseam".
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hi bb, it is ad nauseum
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Hi mungo,
I think not
http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/adnauseum.html
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BnB: In the vein of Mark Twain please accept my EEC Award (etymology excellence commendation) from a certified English instructor.
"Whenever the literary German dives into a malformed sentence, that is the last you are going to see of her till she emerges on the other side of the Atlantic with the correct spelling in her mouth."
All the best,
SP
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LOL Sickputer & mungo. Please feel free to correct my English any time
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Hehe, B&B – but not your Latin – you were correct all along.
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Likewise for me… I see typos and malapropisms occasionally looking back at my older posts. Not surprising since I use a three inch screen for most of my posts. Welcome to the souped up 1928 television screen rebirth albeit two-way!
Before GE went into the business of slaughtering the human race they built this early 1928 TV prototype:
http://www.earlytelevision.org/images/ge_octagon-hd.jpg
I am hoping to advance to the 1948 screen size:
http://www.tvhistory.tv/1948-Temple-TV1776-7in.JPG
Ontopic: As they progress in the nasty cutout work at Unit 3 we hope to get some answers on just how much of Unit 3 SFP is left. There have been videos, but closer inspections should reveal clues on the mystery of that mushrooming supersonic explosion. The work is tricky though because that building is one hot tamale.
They should eventually be able to see how much spent fuel is left (probably very little) and assess the burn condition (did the remaining fragments burn up in December as we thought?)
They also said no MOX was in the SFP. But it was a very old collection of hot used rods with a great deal of fission-created plutonium byproducts. Thus the debris they are picking out is very, very toxic.
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"no one has died due to radiation from fukushima"…that is a bare- faced lie… please give us some links to scientific reports you mention..BTW would these also be from sources which state no one has died from Chernobyl, Hiroshima, 50's/60's nuclear tests, depleted uranium, vaccines, prescribed meds, pesticides and written no doubt by ; Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whiddon, Harry Hawke and Uncle Tom Cobley and all!… (grin)..Oh go on Nut, ooops Nuke Roadie make my day, I could do with a good Laugh.
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Dear wideawake,
I found this study done by Greenpeace today. Powerful stuff.
"no one has died due to radiation from fukushima"… you are so right to address this vacuous point.
Aloha.
"The Difficult Truth About The Chernobyl Catastrophe: The Worst Effects Are Yet To Come"
'…All mixed into the word 'Chernobyl' are technocratic adventurism and heroism of liquidators, human solidarity and the cowardice of leaders (frightened to warn their citizens of the terrible outcomes, and by that, strongly increasing the numbers of innocent victims), the sufferings of many and the self-interest of others.'
'The following report, in its concentrated form presents to the English speaking reader material that was previously difficult to access (published in Belarus, Russian and Ukrainian literature).'
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/report/2006/4/chernobylhealthreport.pdf
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Dear wideawake,
What about countless 'emotional' and 'psychological' deaths and the ruthless pillage of a million children's dreams.
Yeah, I'm upset! Go ENENews!!
Aloha.
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Radiation blowback: 10 times lethal level registered at Fukushima
Published: 28 March, 2012, 20:56
http://rt.com/news/fukushima-high-radiation-levels-676/
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-1
Yet another inside industry expert who's in denial and afraid of changing careers. (losing his job)
Hopefully, someone, will inform him that someday his actions and words will be considered criminal and negligent.
"..focus on the facts" is the only accurate thing he stated.
However, this is NOT FACT.
He states, "…the facts bear out that the harm will be minute if any." This is more than speculation, it is a LIE that continues to buy the Nuke industry some time.
What about harm to…
butterflies,
fish,
birds,
unborn babies,
future generations,
…everything is connected!
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"No one has died due to radiation from Fukushima…"
Well, Masao Yoshida, the ex-chief of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, admitted "… says he told subordinates to write their names on a whiteboard to let people know who “remained at the site until the last minute to fight” the disaster."
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120726b1.html
Masao has officially admitted workers have died fighting this disaster. Most people missed this, but this is confirmation workers have died there.
Not to mention bobby1's work, showing ongoing deaths of about 100,000 a year in the US alone from Fukushima, but that's old news.
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As I recall there were also reports of 7 missing..
I would have to search for the link.
What about these:
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8460760-nuclear-plant-workers-die-in-crane-accident
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"Whereabouts of 30 Nuclear Power Plant Subcontractors Unknown: Health Ministry" Mainichi (2011, June 21): http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110621p2a00m0na005000c.html
TEPCO Says It Has Lost Contact with 143 Nuclear Plant Workers,” Japan Today (2011, August 10): http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/tepco-says-it-has-lost-contact-with-143-nuclear-plant-workers
Reuters. Japan probes under-reporting of Fukushima radiation dosage. The Washington Post (2012, July 21),
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japan-probes-under-reporting-of-fukushima-radiation-dosage/2012/07/21/gJQAdgJw0W_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines
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nuke roadie = nuke toadie
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Ha!
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Nuke roadie
"No one has died due to radiation from fukushima and the facts bear out that the harm will be minute if any."
This occurred in just the first few days of the disaster! In this correspondence between the NRC and the Japanese, the Japanese admitted to 5 people having received lethal radiation doses.
http://enformable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Pascarelli-Robert.png
I suggest everyone here use this document as one of your resources to prove to those who say, "No one has died from radiation because of the Fukushima Nuclear disaster", that they are totally wrong!
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majia thank you for your clarification here. The news is grim.
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Press Release (Aug 22,2012)
Severe Health Condition of a Worker of a Cooperative Company at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
At around 10:35 AM today, a worker of a cooperative company was found unconscious in the rest area of the Cooperative Company Center Welfare Building at Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. As cardiopulmonary arrest was confirmed by a doctor, the worker was transported from Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station to Iwaki Kyoritsu Hospital at 11:34 AM.
No radioactive material was attached on his body.
http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2012/1216531_1870.html
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Stupid bullshit!
"unoxidized pieces of nuclear rods"
What means MOX?
Arnie speaks about unoxidized pieces of uraniumoxide and plutoniumoxide.
"unoxidized oxids"
h.
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And the state/active condition of the broken plutonium fuel rods?
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But here is a problem, MOX-Corium-Plutonium in Fukushima-Daiichi report, p 7: "According to AREVA the MOX can be loaded in different ways, at the request of the customer. One wonders if, in Fukushima, the MOX was not loaded to 30% plutonium, instead of 3 to 12% officially announced by AREVA. Some say the MOX in some cases may even be charged 100% of plutonium…"
So, we do not really know how much of the plutonium the world has to contend with, but the fact is that the biosphere never ever been presented with a burden like this.
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This is a real big deal. How 'charged' were the MOX rods being used at Fukushima? And who certified their use in reactors that were never designed to handle fuel this hot?
The magnitude of the problem just gets bigger and bigger. Here's a question – how much MOX fuel is being used in all the reactors of the same design as the Belgian NPP with the thousands of cracks in the primary containment vessel? And what's the scenario if one or more of these NPPs cracks apart, like 'shattered glass'?
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I just wonder where the speculation is getting us…if it's from the fuel pool, if it's from the reactor…it's plutonium and it's everywhere….how do we deal with it????
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"how do we deal with it?"
Take a deep breath, hug your beloved ones,
enjoy this summer… and lucky for you,
you don't have to save money for your retirement.
Sorry, but IMHO is every single lifeform "on the edge".
h.
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Yes..let's show the world how to live.
We have all have/are being dosed..so let's get on with things.
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Dear Heart of the Rose,
Agreed. Time to rise and shine. Also possibly time to impose some worldly justice upon the folks who got us into this mess? Evidence seems evident.
Thanks and respect, always
Aloha.
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Nice reminders Heart of the Rose and andagi. Time's a wastin, and no sense in spending the rest of it stressed and worried. Hard to do, but you're both right…time to live like there's no tomorrow.
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I would really like to see someone do a comprehensive radiation survey of the area around Fukushima. That is what Tepco should have been doing from day one. Five hundred plus days after the accident and no one has sent teams out to take samples of the soil and water and report the information to the public? Or is Tepco just hiding the information they have? The majority of plutonium has probably been there from the start
I just want an honest picture of the situation. I have seen the videos of untrained people taking measurements here and there, but that does not tell me much. I would donate to an experienced team that goes and collects samples and takes readings that paints a picture of the real situation.
Arnie's opinion makes sense but it depends on how far away these PU samples were found. The further away from the plant the more the possibility that the PU was oxidized for any of the units. And if it was oxidized then it continues to become airborne today. Another reason for the real survey I want.
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Chrisk sez: "Or is Tepco just hiding the information they have? The majority of plutonium has probably been there from the start"
SP: I suspect they have hard data, the supervisors are not uneducated. They are very good with the latest technology. The extremely limited intelligence reports from workers show they have near total control over information. For now anyway.
They know confamination levels and probably how deep to the foot the coriums reside. Their silence and their refusal to allow independent scientists assist speaks for itself. Things are bad in Japan and frightening inside the epicenter zone.
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Chrisk9, Arnie thought chunks of the mox fuel were expelled as far as a mile away. Because they are unoxidized, they are still cooking hot concentrated pellets.
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I think several parties have the real data..the Japanese goverment..the US and UK governments..Israel…etc.
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of course they know, they can read radiation in space, so they can definately read where the coriums are… they wont tell us though, no immediate blah blah blah
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Question if SFP three blow it's top why, was it because it boiled dry and exploded ( implications to all SFP ) was it due to movement of bundles due to vibrations from earthquake that caused a reaction, was it a detonation or degradation.
We must get answer to the many questions that have been brought to light thanks to Fukushima, was it the earthquake that crippled plant, the tsunami, bad management, these are fundamental questions that need to be answered as it has implications for all nuclear plants.
My guess the earthquake therefore all nuclear plants need to be mothballed immediatly if true for the sake of humanity please.
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Report of fire in spent fuel pool 4 15/11
http://blog-imgs-53.fc2.com/r/y/u/ryuma681/IAEA.jpg
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weeman, you probably know all this already, but in case there are folks here that don't, i don't think we can get these answers until the reactors can be opened and that won't be for another 25 to 30 years if they aren't entombed, and never, if they are. I have found Arnie Gundersen's http://fairewinds.org/ theories to be very informative and help me arrive at some good guesses for myself. He backs all his claims and shows his entire line of reasoning, which is good practice. I also like Goddard's Journal http://www.youtube.com/user/GoddardsJournal for the same reason. They sometimes arrive at different conclusions depending upon what facts and premises they have at the time, combined with their own knowledge base, which i find interesting. These are two of many very good thinkers and there is some disagreement among them all, which shows just how difficult getting factual information and test results has been along with how complex nuclear physics is, especially when protocols and practices have been ignored and companies like TEPCO get creative to save a buck. Then the predictable outcomes, or what should have happened, even what should have been what actually went wrong, starts to differ wildly because someone rerouted a water cooling pipe or stuffed MOX fuel in the reactor.
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Sad I almost found no surprise in the headline. Radiation Normalization, soon mutants will have rights to vote.
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Arnie is cool. He has progressed and learned things from Fukushima.
Nice work Vital 1. They habitually lie, n'est-ce pas?.
One question for you nuke techheads. I am just a layperson to this subject so I just go by the available nukular literature and specs on the net. Arnie is saying he thinks the fuel rods are unoxidized and that they can burn. I have always thought the fuel rods were uranium oxide which is what most sources say. My impression was the zirconium was not oxidized and could ignite and burn but not the uranium oxide. Solid uranium can ignite at under 400F, so it would be way too pyrophoric to put unoxidized uranium in a fission reactor. Right or wrong?
Does this sound correct or not?
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