IAEA Paper: Corium was not cooled in majority of tests using water injected from above, as done at Fukushima — Were studying how to stop molten core from melting through concrete

Published: December 26th, 2013 at 8:55 am ET
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IAEA-CN-194-027 (France’s IRSN – Nuclear Safety Division), 2012:

3.3 Examine appropriate solutions able to avoid reactor concrete basemat  melt-through by the molten core after RPV failure [...]

3.3.2 Injecting water on the top of the corium

Injecting water on the top of the corium subsequent to RPV failure could be performed using RCS make-up through the vessel breach or using a dedicated system.

EDF [French electrical utility Électricité de France] states that this strategy should be able to slow down or even prevent basemat melt-through. According to EDF, the conclusions of the dedicated OECD MCCI [Melt Coolability and Concrete Interaction] program [5] provide a tendency towards a good efficiency of this ex-vessel reflooding strategy. A complementary corium-concrete interaction test4 (test CCI-7) is planned in June 2012 to confirm the possible stabilisation of a corium pool by means of flooding from above.

IRSN has deemed that the tests performed in the frame of the MCCI program up to day were not conclusive as regards to get confidence to a complete corium cooling by injecting water on its surface (only 3 out of 8 tests exhibit cooling of the corium pool). [...]

See also: M.I.T. Q&A: Coolability of the molten corium is questionable (VIDEO)

And: Nuclear Expert: Water may NOT have stopped melted fuel from going down into concrete at Fukushima -- I raised this issue years ago, but it's too difficult for regulators to deal with (VIDEO)

Published: December 26th, 2013 at 8:55 am ET
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257 comments

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  2. AP: Melted Fukushima fuel is 12 inches from entering ground after eating through concrete, says simulation — Study: Molten core suspected of eroding through concrete foundation — Gov’t Expert: We just can’t be sure until actually seeing inside November 20, 2013
  3. Gov’t experts warn about mass of corium melting deeper than Japan, Tepco claim — Fukushima cores “could be eroded more extensively than announced” February 10, 2014
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257 comments to IAEA Paper: Corium was not cooled in majority of tests using water injected from above, as done at Fukushima — Were studying how to stop molten core from melting through concrete

  • name999 name999

    …shit man, what can we do? This is not theory or something that will wait until tomorrow…


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  • bf9 Fitz

    I would like to say one thing before bed though…it's very possible that someone connected with the Japanese power structure in some way indirectly is reading this. And so I address Japan as a whole for simplicity:

    Japan, I am not necessarily condemning your actions thus far at Fukushima as it's a horrible tragedy that not even my country, the US, would be able to fully cope with had it happened here. It truly pains me to think of what is and will be happening in your country (and eventually the rest of the world). I barely sleep at night because of it. I have slowly over my life come to understand your culture more and quite frankly I respect almost every aspect of it. You're honorable, loyal, and compassionate to each other in your own way. Your pride is even extremely respectable- I can also see it outside of a nationalist perspective.

    There are times in life where even though it's painful or shameful, one has to put aside their pride. Nobody likes to be shamed- look at how people react to it here…you are often graceful where we are not. But shame is not the end of it all, it's a chance to learn- to grow. It's not something to fear but a tool that can be used to better oneself. It took me several periods of tough times to discover this even myself.

    If you ask the world for help on this, and allow it, at first there may be shame. Sure. But I can assure you that the rest of the world will get over it very quickly and it will be happy and honored to help…


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    • bf9 Fitz

      There is the power of both good and evil in humanity, each can be tapped within oneself to accomplish a whole lot. We are at a crucial point in the history of this planet in a situation that I don't think anyone wanted to be in. I admit, I myself am a misanthrope in my own right and we all deserve a little bit of what's coming to us. Well most of us- but myself…I absolutely deserve it to some degree. I suck. But, instead of being remembered as they who chose to plunge into the abyss and walk away from the challenge you can lead the way in turning that ship the other way. You've already sacrificed so much throughout your history and if we all make it out of this you can be remembered as the leaders into the light.

      The first step is to ask for help. You've fought valiantly and bravely in this tragedy, the workers foremost.

      Ponder this thought, for you have the option of turning this bad situation into the most truly amazing feat in human history. It's going to take a little bit of everyone's help to solve this and I think you can even see this in your heart. There's no shame in asking for help and those who will disagree I believe are wrong. For the sake of Japan, and the world, I hope that you're able to hear my words and whatever shame there is will be eclipsed by worldwide praise with success as a team. It's not too late, but action must be taken soon.

      -A Random Nobody, from the US.


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      • unincredulous unincredulous

        Second that. Nobody #2 USA

        Your back is to the wall, Japan. You could go either way on this thing. Something to listen to while your thinking.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_SOEgtjc8

        Please do the right thing. Don't blow us all up.


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      • orsobubu orsobubu

        Fitz, if we try to compare the Fukushima disaster to a war, then I would say that there is little hope that your prayer has a following. In a capitalist system, indeed, in a system of imperialist powers like the present, the special interests of the ruling class are too strong to be outweighed by the general ones. In fact, if you look at history, it has never once occurred that a butcher in power has apologized and has withdrawn from war. It's just the total defeat that led to surrender. The only case in history where a government has withdrawn themselves from the war for the interest of the people was the Lenin' one in Russia (which was a war started by capitalists). Now, in Japan I think the situation is still very far from what might be called a total defeat, and tragedies much more severe will happen (eg. thousands of confirmed deaths from cancer) before there is an action such as that advocated by you. Or a strategic encirclement and isolation of Japan implemented by all the other powers, which, however, would be tantamount to international recognition of a definitive ban on nuclear energy. And so here we return to the initial economic policy consideration: the interests of capital are obviously in contradiction with the general welfare of workers, and the ultimate solution lies in the revolutionary transition to a production system subsequent to capitalism (both in the sense of free market and in the sense of socialist state capitalism).


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        • ioff101der

          You said: "The only case in history where a government has withdrawn themselves from the war for the interest of the people was the Lenin' one in Russia (which was a war started by capitalists)."

          It's a mistake I feel to impute altruism to Lenin. Lenin backed the Russians out of WWI because he saw political advantage, not because he cared overly for the people. His goal was to overthrow the old ruling class, and as it turns out, and could only inevitably be, institute the new one. If you will allow the extension… if one says that Lenin ended Russia's participation in WWI as the result of his sympathy for the common man, the same can be said for the Germans, who safeguarded his transport from exile into Russia. It becomes obvious along that line that the Germans were equally careful in their regard for the Russian peasant.

          And as to altruism within the new utopia-bound dictatorship… how is it that the dachas of the formerly privileged were taken over by the new elites and not supplied to the proletariat?

          There is a saying: "Revolutions tend to consolidate"… the formerly revolutionary, once becoming the wielders of power, lose the ardor of their lofty and often disingenuous goals, and assume the trappings of the those recently vanquished. Marx should have figured this into his dialectical materialism. Perhaps he would have been a bit more careful about tearing things apart and not knowing how to put them back together.

          Besides, the war was not going…


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          • orsobubu orsobubu

            Thanks for the reply. My post was mainly related to correct the idealism (noble, but illusory and utopian) that pervades this forum, as far as the connection between nuclear power and government of society is concerned. About Lenin, I have already pointed out that the question is OT in this forum, so I invite you to tell me if you want to move the discussion on the off-topic forum. I respond briefly to your comments.

            I never described the policy of Lenin as "altruistic." But the political advantage pursued by Lenin was undoubtedly intended for the people, conceived as the mass of workers, peasants, pensioners, students and children. The bourgeois dictatorship of the capitalist class would be replaced by proletarian dictatorship of the working class. In the meantime, the government put in place immediately and for the first time in the world a whole series of measures in favor of the people, civil rights, equality for women, on religion, etc. (but, above all, the end of the war must be regarded as the greatest achievement in favor of the working class). Unfortunately, the consequences of the imperialist world war, the outbreak of civil war, organized by the capitalists of the whole world against the Bolsheviks for the fear to expansion of the revolution in their respective countries, and the choking of the third international in other key countries by the bourgeoisie, prevented Lenin in the building of communism.


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          • orsobubu orsobubu

            In fact, he always said to have established state capitalism, never the communism. The government of Stalin reinforced state capitalism and killed one by one all the Bolsheviks, and must therefore be considered as an added disaster of the bourgeoisie and not of Leninism.

            Similarly, the government of Germany can not possibly be compared to Bolshevism, as the Germans in 1919 were the main murderers of the international workers' movement, and right in Germany was built on this basis the Nazi party. Your observation about the privileges of the ruling class in the Soviet Union is also totally unfounded. In all the countries of real socialism, there was a market economy, money, wage labor, banks, etc., and none of these factors is compatible with communist economy, whose base is the replacement of the exchange-value and surplus-value with the planned economy by a world government based on user value, socially produced and distributed.

            Your criticism of degenerating revolution does not make sense, as it should instead be directed against the limits of state capitalism. The importance of Lenin has been shown that the power can be seized by organized proletariat, while still lack proof that it can be maintained.


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          • orsobubu orsobubu

            Utopia is therefore not communism, which remains a long-term project for the liberation of the proletariat from wage labor, but bourgeois democracy is utopian instead, which deceives the workers by granting formal civil rights while decisions are taken outside the representative popular institutions; free market is also utopian, as everywhere it would have died had it not been for decades supported by state capitalism.

            About Marx, you fall into the error of not distinguishing between idealism and materialism. It is not the will of man that determines the necessity of revolution, but the material development of the productive forces instead. Even the bourgeoisie took 500 years from the first attempts to seize power, but in the end the needs of the new economic order were crucial. Of course the process is not linear nor deterministic, it takes place only if the social forces are organized to carry out this task (dialectical materialism), but on this aspect the contribution of Lenin is essential, and just on this basis we can say that any idealistic, not organized attempt to oppose the bourgeoise use of atomic energy for profit and military purposes is doomed to failure.


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  • @StPaulScout
    December 26, 2013 at 10:09 pm
    In the utter helplessness to prevent omnicide in a catastrophe of melts like Fuku lies the outlawing of the nukes, in fact modern civilization.


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  • unincredulous unincredulous

    I'm getting cross eyed watching this slow moving bullet coming straight at me. I go to sleep, and wake, and it is still not here yet. Fuk. All the time in the world and can't even duck. It's like bullet time mastery is useless.


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  • AllenH (Scary, but not alarming !?)

    No new news has been posted today ! I tried to see with the cameras online, but got no picture. I hear there are many people working underground, I am not sure how true this is, but if the ground is collapsing. Many say it will, then working underground is not a good idea. If it does collapse, this will just open another can of worms. With the high readings of the past few days, does this indicate our worst fear, that soon they would have to evacuate Fukushima ?
    Dispite the fact that for 3 years, Tepcon has been sitting on its arse fixing things with tape, wire and traffic cones. And using advanced technology like nails.


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    • artika rama

      Tepco is doing three things at the moment
      1; waiting for the next erathquake to crush everything so they wont have to deal with all that radioactive water in those tanks , all those fuel rods
      2; covering up the reactors to pretend they are working on it so they can fool the media
      3; Continuously playing down everyhting to give people a false impression of safety
      They shouldnt be doing this work , they are incapable , dishonest sooner or later unless someone takes over they will cause this catastrophe to get worse.
      It is not a matter of IF but when .


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      • KiloCharley KiloCharley

        artika rama, TEPCO's main goal? Profit. period.
        I agree with you completely "they shouldn't be doing this work", I also agree with Arnie G. when he said TEPCO should be removed. This is a global disaster that should have had the worlds best scientists, engineers, and governments top priority to mitigate damages.
        1; Those tanks were not meant to last beyond 5 years. Even if they did last.., what are you going to do with that much radioactive waste? Bound to fail…
        2; "Dog and pony show" to fool the public into thinking the "worst case scenario" has not already happened.
        3; "Continuously playing down everything to give people a false impression of safety" .. It started with "lube oil fire unit 4", and continues to this day.
        When there is a "Major Malfunction" in the nuclear industry, you are likely to hear the words "minor setback", followed by "no immediate health risk".
        I reminisce, my flight instructor who ounce said, "if you here me say "bail out, bail out, bail out., the last two will be echos, cuz I'm already gone…". lol.
        Ahh the good times.. I will fondly remember the days when a person had a choice to risk their life…


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  • hbjon hbjon

    One gram has the potential heat energy of 2000 tons of coal and they want to splash water on a pile of fissioning plutonium to prevent it from boring through concrete. All I can say is good luck with that. At least they've prevented it from exploding again.(A miracle in itself)


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  • mrssaldivar333

    Someone commented and asked people to report noticeable reactions that pets are having to radiation. About one year ago Watson, my 10 year old Maine Coon (cat) began to throw up whenever I fed him cans of tuna feast and also ocean white fish. I had already stopped feeding my family fish (because I knew radiation was leaching into the ocean) but I forgot about poor Watson. So I switched him to chicken, turkey, beef and occasional trout. He hasn't had a problem since. I met a lady in the cat food isle at Target this last summer, she turned to me and said "My cat has been throwing up after he eats, have you ever heard of that?" I said "yes" and I told her my story. I told her "all pacific seafood is contaminated with radiation." She laughed in my face. "The government would tell us if there was radiation in our fish." I just grabbed my can of chicken feast, shook my head and walked away.


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