Published: May 12th, 2012 at 12:45 pm ET
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Arnie Gundersen Interviewed by Mike Adams
May 11, 2012
“Gundersen is chief engineer of energy consulting company Fairewinds Associates and a former nuclear power industry executive” -Wikipedia
At ~5:00 in
Published: May 12th, 2012 at 12:45 pm ET
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sending...
Is this news to anyone?
Plume-gate: Secret documents prove global cover-up of continued Fukushima radiation pollution
http://www.naturalnews.com/035847_plume-gate_Fukushima_radiation.html
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Its interesting to see this story finally reaching some alternate media outlets. We discovered these issues many weeks ago, in great detail and supportive data right here on the ENENEWS discussion thread. The thread entialed 339 comments, one of the most involved threads on the site to date.
see it here.
http://enenews.com/controversy-after-govt-estimate-showed-40000-microsievert-thyroid-dose-california-infants-after-fukushima-very-high-doses-children-releasing-info-public/comment-page-1#comment-216281
Plumegate as this Natural news piece describes it, spins the story into a political attack on the Obama administration, which is all well and fine and in keeping with the editorial bend of the site and its affiliation with AJ. However the issues runs far deeper than a mere political ploy. The evidence is overwhelming that the NRC constructed and executed a huge coverup which put Americans at risk, knowingly. This should mark the end of this agency an certainly Jazcko in the least. There is too much riding on the future of nuclear power to let this stuff fall to the way side and a replacement agency for the NRC is required.
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The 14,000 excess deaths may also be a gross understatement. Perhaps that's only infant deaths. Some 58,000 excess deaths showed up in the first couple of months. Janet Sherman, MD, pegged the number of excess deaths (as of last fall) at around 114,000 (if I have the numbers right).
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That's excess deaths in the U.S.
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The link is news–thank you!!
As for Mike, I was so very disappointed with his interviews yesterday: Jill and I jut discussed this at the nuc forum.
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I agree the interview was very disappointing especially since his site was to release this Plumegate piece the following day! He did not even bring it up! Not a word! lol
There were so many huge shortfalls in the interview it underscores my analysis of AJ being a limited hangout unto himself, not that I needed more supporting data.
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I think el you ought to pick on those who are NOT giving us any information rather than someone who is.
It will be news to some that Cesium-134 and Cesium-137 together are a definite Fukushima signature, and that both have been found in Southern California.
And, if it isn't news, it still bears repeating, over and over, as Arnie is doing.
If Arnie isn't reliable, name someone who is.
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I personally dont think AG is reliable. I have done my research to this conclusion. That is NOT to say everything he says is not truthful, please dont misunderstand that.
I trust no one until I have done adequate research. The point is to take all the info in but screen out any lies and mis truths before I consider said info to be of value. What Im describing is how to spot the disinfo and stop it right away.
Its a form of the Trivium that I use, as you can see, there is a wealth of info out there but youll go crazy if you dont protect yourself.
Fear is what is being sold by much of these guys. Not solutions, that much is obvious. Im not immune to falling for it. There is no reason trust without question the experts. They have us failed before. They need constant watching.
Better idea to use who, what , where, when, how, and why, to pull our asses out of the sling. We already know we were all dusted with radioactive fallout. Now we need to know how best to protect ourselves. We dont need fear because is renders our minds useless.
Fear is being sold through Arnie G and A. Jones. Yes there is some good info, there…..but because the majority of people in developed Countries have sub-standard critical thinking skills, (whitheld from them by Eastern Germanic Prussian Education) most go from truth seekers to mindless repeaters of disinfo and fear.
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Arnie is the only fellow I know of that actually outlined possible solutions to the #4 problem in great detail, also explaining why they wouldn't work.
I think the type of fear Arnie is supposedly 'selling' is different than the DHS/FBI orange-alerts. This one is real.
So, he does come up with solutions, not just fear. If you still think he's peddling just fear, I think he ought to pedal a little faster, and so do many on this site.
Also, look what happens when people do come up with solutions – like Busby's calcium pills.
In any case, I think it is rather infantile and unfair to single out one informative and helpful man on a planet of 7 billion people who are being neither informative nor helpful and are doing just about nothing. There's the added problem of getting hooked on ad hominem attacks while Rome burns.
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You can look at it how you like. Ive already covered my use of ad hominims in earlier posts…
Anyway, there are plenty of non experts and people who are "experts" not connected to industry and NGOs and think tanks that have posted as much or nearly as good info about Fuku. These are the people we should be talking to. This other stuff, the Infowars…..Its not even marketed (yes, marketed) to people who are already in the know. Its marketed to the wet behind the ears crowd. Not the crowd thats past fear and hype? You think fear is the best way to wake up people? Its not! Knowledge and understanding rule the roost. As you can see, our choices are only as good as our info. If the info sucks, so do our choices.
Anyway, Infowars can be a good site for facts, but only if you know how to find them, and Im here to tell you, If you were taught in Public School, you dont have a pot to piss in as far as knowing how to do that.
And even for all your hard work and tears—sometimes you never can tell.
As with everything, I expect people to make up their own minds.
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el (of the no apostrophe theory) bashes public education:
"Im here to tell you, If you were taught in Public School, you dont have a pot to piss in as far as knowing how to do that"
SP: Hey, I resemble that remark. *;-) Your second public school bashing comment does get a response from me.
Yeah, sure the Hockaday kids in Dallas are damn smart, but the new intelligentsia does not necessarily have from birth a golden spoon up their colon. The Information Age is a great equalizer in that not all future geniuses will matriculate from elite prep schools.
I have a public university B.A, but I beat out 70 candidates for an educational technology teaching position many years ago. A number of the applicants had PhDs, but they could barely comprehend email, much less more complex technology. I was the second of many cousins to get a college degree (my brother was the first) and my folks did not have the money to pay for additional schooling in a masters and doctoral program.
I have no regrets I didn't get a graduate education. I feel my research skills are decent and certainly after 23 years on Usenet and many other technology skills I feel pretty comfortable discussing many topics. I taught many students who are now judges, superintendents, journalists and other jobs.
I do know my limits on nuclear issues and anyone here who has more hands-on experience than Arnie Gundersen please step forward and I will be happy to learn from your knowledge. Ciao.
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Great response, SP.
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Which pool?
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shell game!
lol
Also note the introduction of the topic that the weakened pool introduces a "terrorist threat" as all that is required is for some "terrorist to fire an RPG" at the weakened structure to kick into play the world threat.
That is awfully convenient is it not? I dont mean to skeptical but such a scenario allows for the Nuclear industry to say every thing was well and fine until the damn terrorists got involved, time to clamp down on anyone who opposes nuclear power or the agenda of the cabals affiliates.
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BE SKEPTICAL.
You think they want to continue to have Nuke power? Think weaponry instead. Its been about that the whole time. Its not about providing power, its the UN plan is to disarm the entire world of Nukes (except them) so they can control everyone else with Nukes.
The fact that the War on Terror is really a way to create revenue and grow Govt–YES– IT LEADS TO NO NUKES! Sounds good, right?
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i agree that with the notion that nuclear power is the gateway to weaponized plutonium, however the continuation of this is unneccesary. There is an absolute abundance of the stuff at this point in time for use in an array of weaponry.
The only possible new use of the by products (outside of all teh traditional applications) is space exploration and weaponization.
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> RPG at a weakened fuel pond
SP: Certainly a valid and debatable topic. Feasible also because nobody has troops guarding the plants in the US or Japan,
An event is unlikely in Japan because guns and explosives are scarce, but Timothy McVey proved a single terrorist can wreak havoc. As always governments underestimate threats until after they occur.
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OK.., start a reply to this posting: After watching the Mike Adams what was a question or topic YOU would have liked Arnie to discuss.
One of my unasked topic/question:
Rod Adams at Atomic Insights blog has said Fukushima Daiichi proves a nuclear accident at a megaplex can achieve "cold shutdown" even with three meltdowns and minimal response by workers. I am sure you disagree, but specifically what is the long range outlook in your opinion for the runaway coriums? Do you feel there has been China Syndrome events? What about the leaking toxic water that is hitting the coriums and being released into the sky as hydrovolcanic steam and as toxic water directly into the Pacific Ocean? Is it too late for the coffer dam you suggested 13 months ago?
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Id like to know if he had seen the videos of Japan after the "quake" and before the tsunami hit land, and If he thought there was evidence of a 9.0 earthquake.
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i think most here have dismissed the Jim Stone stuff after considerable deliberation and research.
However cause is still highly controversial as is to what the npps damage can be attributed to given that the official story likes to blame the Tsunami as a damge control measure.
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Hes about as credible as the rest of em. Got good photos though, eh?
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In terms of crediblity, this is all much like wartime propoganda where truth is the first is the casuality.
so yeah i guess Stone has as much crediblity as the rest of them and good pics.
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Good question and one I also wanted to hear. I would also like to hear Arnie discuss the huge megaplex Kaskiwazaki-Kariwa 311 earthquake damage recently revealed and its leaking of radiation in the aftermath of the 2007 earthquake.
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Hey sickputer.
What i thought was amusing was the "good this thing happened on a friday" stuff!
But there was so much in this interview that left one wanting I would not know where to begin with respect to your list of what should have been discussed. Open eye suggests there is a forum where this has already been aired called NUC.
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Kevin typed these pixels of light: "the "good this thing happened on a friday"
SP: I kinda had a little pause at that statement also, but on reflection the extra numbers for weekday versus weekend workers is a good observation, but I think more so at Daini than at Daiichi.
Daiichi was so fubar after the first two hours I doubt 25,000 workers would have made a difference. No lights, no power, very little to do except watch the 1-4 reactors descend into hell. Even the tragic venting attempts would not have been helped by more workers.
There was work at Units 5-6 because there was a surviving EDG (emergency diesel generator but probably 50 men could have handled what was available in the resources still useful to restart cooling of fuel.
Now we have little knowledge of the response at Daini so I don't know how much the extra manpower helped there, but since it supposedly had less damage then there was probably more roles for multiple workers.
Having said that…another question I would want to ask Arnie is does he think the number of responders has been anywhere close to what is needed to help stabilize Daiichi.
Compared to Chernobyl has the response been a joke or is the situation so bad that 1 million workers would not help. And how fast does he think a cofferdam can be built and how many workers are needed to install it quickly. I know he would have to guess, but his guess should be better than mine.
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This is the 5th current headline concerning Mr. Gundersen… here at Enenews.
Is it..that Ene is going to except his opinion to the state of Fuku?
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ENE rarely takes such a position.
Nor do the many commentators. Some do. And that is totally expected and congruent with the purpose of the Gunderson effort.
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Gundersen helps people better understand what happened at Fukushima. It was a pretty in-depth interview and some things may not get covered on this site… Project Borax, storing sun's energy overnight vs. storing rods for 100,000s years, "I don't trust the mainstream media", prompt moderated criticality, etc.
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It was a 3-4 hour interview, right? Makes sense to me to break it down into bite sized chunks. I for one cannot sit down to listen to a 3-4 hour interview all at one time.
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40 minutes
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Kevin, there are 3-4 segments, each 40 minutes long.
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Right ..then it's any way the wind blows you.
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no.
well may be yes when it comes to radioactive particles….
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Ene news is good news…..lol
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The point is it seems that ENENEWS has chosen or takes "no position" on the issues, but rather provides a conduit for the news and adds the extra service of applying the filter of a legal mind to pull out nuggets and present them in a different light than anywhere else. In doing so some may believe that a "position" is being taken or expressed, and that is cool. Its a very common editorial practice.
Personally I have not seen enough consistency to make such a claim with respect to the administration of this site. There is much evidence including unmoderated commentary, presentation of conflicting points of view without bias and intrevention on behalf of the ENENEWs to clarify when accusations of this nature are made.
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The choice of headlines and topics by the Admin wittingly or unwittingly defines a position taken by the board. Someone who comes here for the first time that reads only headlines and topics, and no comments, will get an idea of the website's position on nuclear power, Fukushima, and personalities such as Gundersen… and this position may or may not coincide with the majority or the posters.
Since the topics are based on news stories and proclamations of personalities, there are few topics relating to North American radioactive contamination, since the measurements of it have been taken down by governments, and the personalities either don't talk about it or don't believe there is any. So the newbie thinks that we think nuclear power is bad, but there is no immediate danger from from contamination. Whereas the posters, by and large, believe we are in immediate danger from this.
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I looked at Ene today ..I tried to use the perspectiveof a newbie/outsider.
And ..today..if one did not read the comments…Gundersen is the "authoritative voice".
Hummmm..Heart is the opposition of the approved opposition?
"Third man out"… so to speak..might as well "bench".
Sheesh.
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I was at the hardware store today looking to copy a key. The older man who helped me at the machine was talkative of current news affairs. I told him of ENENews. Just so happens he has had quit a career in the nuke field. I think the disbelief will bring him here. Please Heart – don't "bench".
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quit = quite
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Heart,
I am with you in the opposition to "cold pancakes," as always.
Yet, while Admin posts a lot of Gundersen's videos, Admin has also posted a lot of articles that undercut Gundersen's "cold pancakes" claims. I think that anyone reading Admin's posts all the way through ("black dust," "iodine," etc.) will get the truth that that the corium is on the loose, and a ton of radioactivity is being produced, that Fukushima is a massive threat. Maybe not as much a threat in the U.S., as Bobby1 says, I don't know, maybe we could use more links to potrblog, enviroreporter, etc. I'm not sure how to get it, we really need our own lab…
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It is amazing to watch Gundersen continue to deftly talk about it without ever speaking in the present tense…
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Has Arnie come out for testing of all U.S. food for radioisotopes and publication of the results? Or air and water? What does he think about about the EPA shutting down its testing?
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Yes, exactly, Bobby1, you and Heart are right, and I also ask for the clips by Gundersen to be balanced with more clips from people who are willing to talk about the radiation from Fukushima in the present tense, and info about the U.S. in particular…
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"more clips from people who are willing to talk about the radiation from Fukushima in the present tense, and info about the U.S. in particular"
——————————-
Where are these clips of experts/media discussing radiation in the US that have not already been posted on enenews?
As requested below, please send in the links to expert/media reports via contact form on right.
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Heart,
this is precisely the intention of controlled opposition.
it is very affective.
Add in a demonizing and character assasination of those outside the cotrolled opposition box and not only are you benched but you are hit by one and lying underneath it.
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Wow Heart I understand your point but take a different perspective on your negative(?)take on AG. If I understand you take issue with what you see is doublespeak, half-truth, in other words, you don't trust him.
I think of all of us you are shining a bright light on something I think is the meat of the matter; the NRC docs relating to SFP4. If what you brought to the table is true, then yes, all of the babble is lies. All of it.
If we are wrong and 4 is not as NRC stated, then we should know that and act and think accordingly.
You only need ask AG yourself for the answers you need. And then tell us what he tells you!!!
Your pancakes though…. don't fully agree. AG and everyone was duly warned about NOT publishing anything contrary to Japan script. So instead I see AG as cleverly navigating through some rough waters and sadly, still, really the only consistent voice out there saying anything about Fukushima. I read something online other day which paints AG in a very bad light. Essentially calls AG a COMPLETE phony and a fabrication of the industry here as a plant to placate the masses.
What I cant understand, is how you didn't see AG's noticiable wince as he spoke about being ready to move south. Look at his facial expression as he talks about that.
If you were to call him and ask about his take on the NRC docs….you would be bringing a great value to the group.
No matter, I will enjoy your posts as usual and give AG respect…
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I'd rather see the "take no position" position. Just want to hear the news that doesn't often get reported all in one place.
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Exactly.
This site posts news reports by media outlets and experts.
A report gets posted here if it advances the level of understanding about what is happening or has happened at Fukushima, and the ramifications.
If you have news tips send them via the contact form on the right.
If you don't have suggestions about what news should be posted, I am not sure what the problem is… if a topic like North American contamination has not been discussed recently by experts or news reports, there is not much on that topic to make a post about.
The formula hasn't changed since day 1:
1) Find the most relevant information in the news about Fukushima
2) Post it on enenews.com
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Hmm….In his latest video (link below.), Arnie has not yet submitted to his associate chemist the reactivity profile of Cesium 137/134 with Zirconium,.
"Fairewinds Energy Education
Fukushima Daiichi: The Truth and the Future
by Fairewinds Energy Education Plus 6 days 18 hours ago"
http://vimeo.com/41633459
"Spectrometising
May 10, 2012 at 3:47 am · Reply
In "Reactivity Profile"……"and cesium will react violently, even explosively, with an excess of zirconium powder [Ellern 1968. p. 249]."
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/8183
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Spectrometising Spectrometising
May 10, 2012 at 3:57 am · Reply
Okay, my mistake, only boiling point of cesium is posted above. Excuse me.
Here is Zirconium.
1,855° C (3,371° F)
Zirconium, Melting point
4,409° C (7,968° F)
Zirconium, Boiling point
28.39° C (83.1° F)
Caesium, Melting point
670.8° C (1,240° F)
Caesium, Boiling point"
http://enenews.com/gundersen-uranium-detected-in-sample-from-tokyo-that-needs-more-study-video
In this latest video he talks about his ongoing single theory concerning criticalities.
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Or maybe Arnie's associate chemist has not submitted 'reactivity profile' of cesium to Arnie. Vice versa.
I doubt Arnie would do and additional experiment on youtube concerning Zirconium fuel rods, this time incorporating cesium inside a sealed zirconium tube, so that the zirconium tube contains vapourised cesium within it under high pressure against the white hot zirconium walls of the hermetically sealed tube (Non radioactive isotope of cesium should do.).
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It would be too dangerous to place cesium in a hermetically sealed Zirconium tube and heat it up to pressurize the hot cesium gasses against the white hot internal walls of the tube being heated.
Not something to be done at home.
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I'm not going to debate this guy ad finitum..
The hampster jumped off the wheel.
Debate club failure.
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I am not sure what you are refering to here.
If its me, I am not interested in debating with anyone.
As you know i have eviscerated Arnie and called admin to task, i have also said I have appreciated their efforts because both is true.
I have also said your stuff is awesome, sometimes not, you know like when you throw the pancakes at me.
lol
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No..the point and clarification.
I assumed incorrectly that Enenews..(I refer to the collective as opposed to admin..) had common grounds as what the group had deduced… as to the condition,etc. of Fuku.
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Ok gotcha.
I have not seen a consensus of acceptance of any opinion on status.
That said, there is no doubt a thrust to accept Arnies word as definitive or at least, "the best out there"
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PS..This..I thought ..different than others and worth defending.
I had no idea that this was continual comment and debate.
I get it.
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Why would you presume that, Heart? I've seen no evidence of group-think on much of anything except the things we can most reliably count as 'fact' about the disaster and its effects so far. Worse, I can't imagine why anyone would WANT this to be a bastion of group-think. If it were, there wouldn't be anything to discuss. We could all just exchange recipes and gardening hints instead of trying to teach, learn, and/or model what's going on day to day in Fukushima.
I didn't start reading comments until late last year. But have relied upon enenews as a SOURCE of information from various people and links to media reports. Mainichi has been a source. New York Times. Reuters. Al Jazeera, Fukushima Diary, EX-SKF, Enformable, NRC, NEI, HPS… I review the material carefully, sort the propaganda from the facts, etc. Then I write about it. More than 100 articles at DKos and Enformable, ongoing series on protection, mitigation and decon in other outlets based on our book.
So I can tell you that yes, enenews is an excellent source and I am not the only person out there using it AS a source. I signed up when I finally did start reading comments, hoping to lend what I know to the people here as well. Arnie's been doing much the same thing, his way. Take it or leave it, we're just offering. I have found him fairly reliable. I think he's wrong about a few things too. That's okay. I'll just keep calling it as I see it. I can be just as wrong.
None of us KNOWS.
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JoyB.. It was clearly and open mistake on my part.
I have never claimed to be part of enenews..but have heard voice for some sort of cohesion…(or so I thought)
I've corrected my thinking.
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Well, I'd guess most of us think they melted, exploded and/or burned 4 nuclear plants and as many spent fuel pools 14 months ago. And have done not much to mitigate that in all those months. And that they have lied a lot, and often release the same information every month or two until the MSM finally notices, then all of a sudden it's "New!!!"
Sort of like Plumegate. The NRC did an FOIA document dump on Lucas Hixson early last summer, and it took months to go through it all and get it up on the site. I wrote a 9-part analysis of the documents from March 11 through May of last year (initial response) for DKos and Enformable. Analyzed: 1. what NRC knew and when they knew it, 2. what they did with what they knew, and 3. how they manipulated the press and public via an "information control" strategy to cover up the severity and hopefully save the nuclear industry.
It was going to be 10 parts, but after 9 I was so disgusted I just let it ride for obvious – because it's entirely obvious once you've assembled the pertinent documents. The 10th was just going to knot all the threads through all the dots, it was unnecessary. Now that the MSM finally noticed, they all say the information's been out there for a whole couple of weeks at least! Duh.
Wonder if these folks have gotten to the exchanges about how they were gonna get DOE to STFU about Fuku. I thought that was particularly entertaining…
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Sorry, that was 8 of an originally planned 9. All linked in the anniversary post below (scroll down 5 paragraphs to the blurb and links) -
http://enformable.com/2012/03/fukushima-anniversary-top-125-foia-documents-and-transcripts-during-the-first-week-of-the-fukushima-disaster/
I began that series nearly 9 months ago, all were published within 3 months. It's great that other media is finally noticing, or their analysts managed to connect enough dots at this point to confirm the coverup. It's not new information, just new to them.
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Interestingly Adams delivers the Plumegate coverup story here on AJs show.
After not mentioning it with Arnie.
I am pleased this is finally getting some attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1wqDJ-hRUA&list=UUvsye7V9psc-APX6wV1twLg&index=4&feature=plcp
Especially after we uncovered all these issues weeks ago here on ENENEWS.
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i should point out that Mike chooses to not cover the "cover up" we have already had which is in the piece on his site and we discovered here but instead covers the story in contemporary terms revolving around sfp 4 and his recent gunderson interview.
Its odd that his site reports on the NRC cover up from day one but he omits it in preference of a potential new threat.
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someone just pm me when we need to pick up pitch forks en mass……
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that was quite awhile ago, I dont blame ya though, I seemend to miss the PM myself.
apparently all this is required is a good bunker, cache of guns, stock of food and whatever else Alex is selling, including the water filters filled with Koch brothers petro by products.
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lol. so convenient–all in one place!
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Of course it would be like a massive dirty bomb. It doesn't take an Einstein to know that. Another question is at what temperatures does metallic Uranium and Plutonium form? How can this stuff collectively be weaponized? We know that an atomic bomb is relatively small compared to the amount of fuel in a sfp. What's the difference? Freeing the oxygen atoms from the molecules? Enriching the isotopes? This stuff belongs deep underground, not boiling water to make electricity. However, it is survival activity for some powerful people that were the victors in a couple world wars. Insanity is what it is.
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How can I support Gundersen..when Prof.Koide and Mr.Oyama..are telling a much more truthful and CRITICAL story?
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Gunderson is the goto man who did not arrive but rather was sent.
given the general ignorance 99.9 % of the population has about nuclear issues there is a big playing field. Its odd that Arnie commands the whole game.
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99% of those people don't even know who you are talking about.
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yeah
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Support ALL truth-tellers. "Sadly, the Fukushima accident happened, and has spread contamination throughout the world. So there is no food that is clean or safe. But there is a continuous variety of food from extremely contaminated food to relatively safe food. The issue is how to accept [allocate] such food…But unless we inspect many samples of rice, vegetables, fish, we can’t let children eat them." Dr. Koide of Kyoto University 5/5/12 at NY press conference after lecture on status of Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant accident and radiation contamination in Japan:
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2012/05/hiroaki-koide-adults-in-japan-should.html
"the black-colored substance taken at Shin-Ogawabashi Bridge in Minami-Soma…was actually highly-concentrated radioactive substance which is mainly consists of blue-green algae with 1,060,000 bq/kg of radiation per kilo. …grows everywhere and it seems that it has absorbed cesium…even floats in the air and release spores." Oyama Koichi, member of the city council of Minamisōma city in Fukushima: http://fukushima-report.posterous.com/
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floats in the air and releases spores…
nice…
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Credibility counts. Yes, take it all "w/ a grain o' salt," and consider potential motives, but Gunderson and Koide do have credentials and expertise.
Physics Ph.D. Michio Kaku, “All of us have a piece of Chernobyl in our bodies, incorporated into our flesh and tissue. The whole world will be exposed to the radiation from Fukushima. The radiation is now circulating around the entire earth.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAzrWJXBIM0
Ask him to cover this in more depth: kaku@bigthink.com
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