Image published by embassy in Japan shows Fukushima melted fuel deep underground

Published: January 20th, 2014 at 9:11 am ET
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Radioactive Contaminated Water Leaks (Update) from the Embassy of Switzerland in Japan, Science & Technology Office Tokyo (pdf), December 2013:

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Published: January 20th, 2014 at 9:11 am ET
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435 comments

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435 comments to Image published by embassy in Japan shows Fukushima melted fuel deep underground

  • The truth comes out in dribs and drabs. The open air a bomb experiments were a huge success. A bunch of cancer victims did not put a dent into the vast supply of cheap labour. Therefore fukushima can just melt into the ocean. We will not disturb our world economy. Only a few are angry enough to care. Obummer could not lie could he.?


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  • Jebus Jebus

    To those who can see clearly. To those who can hear.

    To the those who speak up and put up the good fight.

    For you, only Truth will do…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPs9qGXxQVE


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  • invisible ELEphant in the room

    The following video is on topic as it discusses the effects of the contamination of the oceans from Fukushima. This is the most serious warning imaginable.

    Fukushima Superstorm Warning for California and Vancouver
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzP9KUp_Uzo


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    • artika rama

      invisible eleph. I have been following dana s videos for some time . He has some good info but also a lot of misinfo in his videos . I think its better to take his info with a bit of salt . We shouldnt believe erveything every so called antinuke activist claims . There are many knowledgable people but also a lot of them are just not educated enough and they are only producing a lot of misinfo and damaging the antiunuke movement instead of helping it IMO .
      I am sorry but His theories about tepco creating the haiyan tornado etc are just false , over exagerated self made theories and have nothing to do with truth seeking or the reality at all .. People will do and say anything nowadays to get some attention i suppose ??. Difficult to see the trees through the forest .

      Thanks anyway . peace:)


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      • invisible ELEphant in the room

        He's basing his projections concerning increased superstorms on well-known scientific data about the effects of global warming.

        "The Consequences of Global Warming
        On Weather Patterns…

        Intense Rainstorms

        Warmer temperatures increase the energy of the climatic system and can lead to heavier rainfall in some areas. Scientists project that climate change will increase the frequency of heavy rainstorms, putting many communities at risk for devastation from floods. Check the map of flood vulnerability in the United States."

        Source: http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/fcons/fcons1.asp

        He predicted weeks ago that another superstorm similar to the one that hit the Phillipines would hit somewhere else soon and sure enough another superstorm almost exactly like it just hit Tonga.

        As soon as I heard his explanation for why he was predicting upcoming superstorms I knew he was right. His analysis and logic are perfect on this point but I realize that Dana is far from perfect on every issue. He's human like the rest of us.

        The following video contains a more complete picture of his arguments and reasoning for his superstorm predictions:

        Fukushima Superstorms (Typhoons, Hurricanes, Cyclones, Tornados)
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cy6E-duPXY


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        • artika rama

          invisible eleph There is NO WAY fukushima could WARM UP the pacific ocean to cause huge storms . Global warming is one thing , a nuke plant WARMING UP The ocean is another . I havent been following him since he started creating these kinds of nonsense. I think he still comes around this site and we seem to interact somehow ;)
          Global warming is one thing ,, a nuke plant heating up the ocean is another . If there is any scientific well proven data i would like to know .
          But i have had this discussion many times on youtube , i dont woish to repeat myself again and again , but we have to be carefull with what we put out , what we say .
          Every misinfo ,, is damaging . It will be used against us .
          I hope we will be more critical of what kind of info we present .
          take care :)


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          • invisible ELEphant in the room

            Correlation does not prove causation, I'll give you that.

            But, Dana makes a very good argument when he points out that the type of superstorm that hit the Phillipines has never occurred on planet Earth pre-Fukushima. Your argument may have been stronger before the superstorm that hit Tonga but now that we've had two such superstorms in a short time, Dana's theory is looking far stronger.

            When you consider all the variables, what besides Fukushima would be a better answer for what caused the unprecedented superstorms of which we've seen two of in a very short time?

            What I want to hear is if you have an alternative theory for what caused the superstorms and your arguments in favor of the theory.


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            • artika rama

              invisible elph My theory is not to believe in every sensational news coming from people who are not educated enough to be a car sales man :) .
              Here are the facts .
              Global warming = yes i believe global warming is real
              Nuclear energy having influence on global warming = yepp totally agree
              Storms getting bigger and mopre devastating because of global warming = yess i agree
              tepco causing tornado HAIYAN = aboslute nonsense
              fukushima warming up pacific = totally insane nonsense

              IF ,, anyone is going to claim that fukushima has warmed up the pacific to cauase these storms here are a few BASIC questions he/ she needs to answer,,
              1 How did fukushima warm up the pacific ?
              2 What was the temperature of pacific before fukushima ?
              3 what is the temperature AFTER fukushima ? just basics

              if you can answer these 3 you have my attention , if not i really have to stop here,, cause i have had this discussion millions of times on other sites (youtube) .
              Dana believes in his efforts and his heart is at the right place , he follows lot of forums , seminars (his words) etc and because of that he considers himself knowledgable enough to make his OWN theories about the creation of a storm by TEPCO ,, this is utterly nonsense , shouldnt be onthis forum even . Anyone reading this kind of nonsense will think we are all loonies making up these nonsense theories.
              I dont wish to spend more energy and time on this , its somewhere between aliens did it and the world is going to explode…


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              • invisible ELEphant in the room

                "tepco causing tornado HAIYAN = aboslute nonsense
                fukushima warming up pacific = totally insane nonsense"

                To the best of my knowledge, Dana doesn't make any such claims. You just used wasted my time on a straw man argument with red herrings and ad hominem mixed in plus other fallacies, pure stupidity.

                By the way, Bill Deagle said in his most recent interview with Jeff Rense that superstorms are and will be a result from Fukushima. So, if you need someone with a vast education to say it, you've got it now.


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                • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

                  The air-borne radiation that has been spewing from Japan for the past almost 3 years now is changing our atmosphere.

                  I believe it is NOT global warming that is responsible for these large storms.

                  Radiation seems to be able to super saturate the air with moisture. I'm guessing the radiation is forming some sort of a static field that prevents the water vapor from condensing out to rain at the normal rate and temperature.

                  Thus we have these massive super cold fog banks that don't dissipate with the suns rays, like they should.

                  We have these very "soft" looking absolutely massive clouds that come in, without much warning as they are not very "radar sensitive" and just dump buckets and buckets all at once.

                  The threshold of rain falling HAS been increased. The condensation point of the clouds HAS been increased. Thus we are getting drought in California.


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                  • invisible ELEphant in the room

                    "I believe it is NOT global warming that is responsible for these large storms."

                    Dana is not hypothesizing that global warming is responsible for the superstorms. He's basing his projections concerning increased superstorms on well-known scientific data about the effects of global warming (repeated below). He's using theory put forth by scientists that warming up the environment will cause superstorms to predict that one of the consequences of Fukushima will be superstorms.

                    To clarify, Dana isn't hypothesizing that global warming will be responsible for causing superstorms, he's hypothesizing that Fukushima will be responsible for causing superstorms and to support his argument he's using scientist's projections of the effects of global warming on the environment.

                    Let me repeat the theory that he's partly basing his projections on:

                    "The Consequences of Global Warming
                    On Weather Patterns…

                    Intense Rainstorms

                    Warmer temperatures increase the energy of the climatic system and can lead to heavier rainfall in some areas. Scientists project that climate change will increase the frequency of heavy rainstorms, putting many communities at risk for devastation from floods. Check the map of flood vulnerability in the United States."

                    Source: http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/fcons/fcons1.asp


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                    • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

                      invisible ELEphant in the room…

                      Well…there is no "well known scientific data" on what I am talking about.

                      This is only my theory on what I have observed with my eyes.

                      I would be interested in hearing yours.

                      Esp the water vapor~radiation reaction.

                      I understand the "Global Warming" threat. It is a longer term threat. The reason I have shelved it, is that this threat is MUCH bigger and MUCH more of a short term threat.

                      My father was involved quite deeply with cloud seeding experiments back in the 60's, having worked with closely with "Dr Chemtrail" at ASRC. He built one of the first vertical wind tunnels to study rain drops at the old GE test hanger in NY.


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                    • artika rama

                      invisible elephant did you chack the link i sent you , go to 2:57 and hear him SAY IT . I am not going to argue what he said and what he didnt .
                      We have been arguing with him for weeks , trying to explain him why a nuke plant couldnt possibly warm up an ocean while he was trying to prove me otherwise . I cant go into the same discussion again ,, please get educated ,, this kind of bullshit gives us all a bad name ,, pronukes are using these kinds of nonsense to ridicule us . we are loosing our credibility because of these kinds of bul..t .
                      Please get informed and stop believeing these kinds of rubbish .


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      pinksailmatt,

                      I just listened to Jeff Rense's latest interview with Yoichi Shimatsu and Jeff Rense explained his theory on the California drought and I thought it made sense.

                      Rense said that he thinks that the American government is causing the drought in order to keep radioactive rain from California. His explanation of the theory made logical sense but it's another unprovable thing.

                      That's all I can say on that, I highly recommend that interview. You can download it for free on Rense's website.


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                • artika rama

                  invisible elephant I have been arguing with dana enough about this for months , After all my warnings NOW he is trying to change his story from FUKUSHIMA caused typhoons to NUCLEAR PLANTS cause global warming and thus cause typhoons .
                  Two different things .
                  here is his video
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0lCnyXLpA0
                  Go to EXACTLY 2:57 minutes and hear him LITERALLY say it "what happened to phillipnes was a direct result of fukushima radiation being absorbed into the super cyclones "
                  I am sorry but this is absurdly idiotic and i have no time for this kind of bull..t .
                  he has many extreme theories and absurd views like fukushima is the same as 18 million chernobyls ::: he has been claiming that 1,5 million gallons of water leaking PER HOUR : and many more out of this world claims and theories .
                  I stopped following his channel long time ago so i dont follow what kind of rubbish he is spreading nowadays .
                  Youtube is an enteratinment channel , any idiot with a camera and an internet connection pretend to be an informer.
                  not a very reliable source of information .
                  Those statements above and many more have been our discussion subjects for long .
                  I finally gave up on him .
                  Noone with even a basic education should believe these kinds of rubbish . I am sorry .


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                  • invisible ELEphant in the room

                    "what happened to phillipnes was a direct result of fukushima radiation being absorbed into the super cyclones "

                    That statement is irresponsible. As a matter of fact, Dana is presenting a theory that can't be proven to be absolutely true at this point. I already admitted that he's imperfect but I believe that his reasoning on this issue is impeccable for the reasons I gave earlier.

                    The fact that he actually said the quote above has nothing to do with what you accused him of saying (both of the accusations below aren't just wrong but you're not even in the ballpark):

                    "tepco causing tornado HAIYAN = aboslute nonsense
                    fukushima warming up pacific = totally insane nonsense"

                    Furthermore, you're totally ignoring the fact that he predicted that another superstorm like the one that hit the Phillipines would form and destroy another place on earth soon and his prediction was 100% right! That's astounding and you're totally ignoring that incredible accurate prediction.

                    The mere fact that you're ignoring his unbelievable correct prediction is troubling but all you're doing essentially is relying on logical fallacies so let's get back to the beginning:

                    What I want to hear is if you have an alternative theory for what caused the superstorms and your arguments in favor of the theory.


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                    • artika rama

                      invisible elephant In his predictios he was mentioning to me that the storms would have 400 to 500 miles an hour wind speeds,, and huge radius more than 100 km s wide .
                      Anyway as i sadi i dont wish to spend anymore time on this ,, he said this he said that ,, irrelevant . You believe whatever you want to believe..
                      My opinion is clear as mentioned before
                      i do believe that the earth is warming up and thus the oceans are warming up too ,, i do believe that global warming is real ,,, i do believe that this CAN cause stronger storms , but also many other extreme weather phenomena ,, and i also do believe that nuclear power stations played a part in global warming .
                      My theory is not a theory , its basic metheorolgy ,, warming up of air causes it to rise , creating negative pressure underneath it ,, air rushes into the negative pressure area creating the wind ,, THUS warmer it gets ,, higher the winds ,, larger the stroms etc etc ,, its not rocket science right :)
                      BUT has nothing to do with RADIOACTIVTIY OR ISOTOPES << we are NOT TALKING ABOUT HEAT ,, HEAT is NOT RADIOACTIVITY as i have been trtying to explain this to him for the millionth time.
                      These are Not the same things . a HOT particle doesnt necessarily need to be HOT in temperature but HOIT in radioactivity and that was his falacy , he couldnt get it . I think fnally he got it tough and tried to adapt his theory but as i said its not the only misiinfo he is spreading , LOTS of things are wrong with his assumptions…


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                    • artika rama

                      invisible elephant "" As a matter of fact, Dana is presenting a theory that can't be proven to be absolutely true at this point. I already admitted that he's imperfect but I believe that his reasoning on this issue is impeccable for the reasons I gave earlier "" DANA ?? seriously ??, the guy who doesnt know the difference between heat and radiation has HIS OWN THEORY on radionuclides causing stronger storms ??? :)
                      let me know when he publishes his theory and we can discuss it :) ,, but untill then i am done :) This is not constructive.
                      If you want to believe him , then i guess you will just believe him :)
                      peace .


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      artika rama,

                      "In his predictios he was mentioning to me that the storms would have 400 to 500 miles an hour wind speeds,, and huge radius more than 100 km s wide"

                      Typhoon Haiyan hit in late November. Dana's prediction was that another storm like it would hit and devastate another place soon, and he was right. Your quote above references something he said but he said that the superstorms would probably get the big in time in his opinion, he didn't say when.

                      You're unbelievable critic! His prediction was off the charts incredible when you realize that a superstorm like Typhoon Haiyan was unprecedented before it happened.

                      The probability of Dana's prediction being right by chance is about 0% and yet you still won't give him credit.

                      You've proven repeatedly already that you're not gonna be fair to him and furthermore you won't own up to it.

                      Still, I'm willing to listen. Your argument seems to boil down to this:

                      "BUT has nothing to do with RADIOACTIVTIY OR ISOTOPES << we are NOT TALKING ABOUT HEAT ,, HEAT is NOT RADIOACTIVITY as i have been trtying to explain this to him for the millionth time.
                      These are Not the same things . a HOT particle doesnt necessarily need to be HOT in temperature but HOIT in radioactivity and that was his falacy , he couldnt get it ."

                      Do you have anything from a credible source to back up your point of view?


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      artika rama,

                      I looked this up just because you got under my skin a little:

                      Bill Deagle speaking at 36 minutes, 41 seconds:

                      "This is gonna effect everybody. And they also have to understand that this event at Fukushima is also gonna presage major not only superweather LIKE WE'RE SEEING NOW but also earthquake and volcanic…"

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZQmxrHpWsQ

                      At least you know that Dana's not alone in his analysis. Bill Deagle is a highly educated individual in science who is respected by millions for his scientific opinions.


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                    • artika rama

                      invisible elephant Oke , i think i am being too harsh ,, i am sorry ,, this whole fuku issue is sometimes too much to take,,and sometimes i get into discussions with some pro nuke shills that really ruins my mood ,,
                      I know Dana has good intentions and i would prefer 10 Dana s to a pronuke shill any time ,, no doubt about that ,, i am not anti Dana ,, and i should respect whatever you want to beleive too..I appologise , if thats what you want to believe you have the right to do so ,,
                      I am going to give him another chance and try to follow his channel again ,,
                      Take good care :)
                      peace .
                      I will check that link too ,,thanks :) .
                      Peace my friend .


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                    • harengus_acidophilus

                      "Interesting" argumentation.

                      Re: ELE @ 12:23 pm
                      "The probability of Dana's prediction being
                      right by chance is about 0% …"

                      Why?
                      If someone with a wrong premise (temp HOT = rad HOT)
                      comes to an applicable result, it's 100% luck.
                      Simple logic.

                      h.


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                    • artika rama

                      harengus acidophilous There is no prediction , do not believe this sht.:) i have been having this discussion on youtube and follows me here ,, nothing no theory no predictions ,, this guy started postualting that hot particles would heat up the ocean since he didnt know what hOT particle meant , then he went from there to making his theories about storms with 400 500 miles an hour would be coming soon and then he claims that he predicted the storm that hit tongan . Utterly nonsense ,, no science just some bogus theories of an uneducated man who makes his own science as he goes as he can understand it ,, yeah isotopes are energy,, heat is energy so isotopes can heat up the ocean ,,SUREE why not :) lol,, and search enough on internet and you can find enough proof of anything ,, hell you can find proof that ison did it , aliens did it etc etc anything is possible in the information age right? Just any idiot with a keyboard can make their own theories .:) and we are supposed to believe its scientific :)
                      Its like discussing with 5 year olds ,, fukushima heating up the OCEAN ,, THE OCEAN?? has anyone ever seen the ocean ??
                      My god idiocy has no limits ,,einstein was right after all ,,
                      ANyway s enough said ,, i cant continue ,, i am exhausted ,, take good care all and believe whatever you want to beleive ,, ;) over and out .


                      Report comment

              • Arizonan Arizonan

                +1000 Thank you for taking the time to answer this in a pleasant reasoned way. There is no way Fuku could warm the ocean, it is physically impossible. But sure, global warming caused storms will certainly spread radionuclides further and wider. There is some evidence tho that atmospheric nuclear testing (1945-1963) caused major damageto the ozone and is largely responsible for global warming. I am still tracking down more on this, will let you all know.


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                • invisible ELEphant in the room

                  "There is no way Fuku could warm the ocean, it is physically impossible."

                  What's your evidence for that statement?


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                  • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                    @invisible ELEphant: principles of thermodynamics come into play. The mass of water is extremely large and as such, would exceed equilibrium for an induced increase in temperature…


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      I was talking specific evidence for this statement:

                      "There is no way Fuku could warm the ocean, it is physically impossible."

                      I did a quick search and I found this article:

                      http://agreenroad.blogspot.hk/2013/04/fukushima-heating-ocean-3-melted.html

                      When someone says "warm the ocean" it's unclear if they're talking about only part of the ocean or the whole ocean. Assuming we're talking about the entire ocean, I'd say let's see what things look like not a thousand days after Fukushima but a thousand years after Fukushima…I don't think that statement is valid on that point alone.

                      But, the article above contains some evidence that part of the ocean has been heated by Fukushima.


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                    • artika rama

                      invisible elphant That statement CAN NOT BE CORRECT ,,i have no proof , do i have to prove it ??can you heat up an olympic swimming pool using a candle ?? do you have any proof that you cant ?? ,, it s IMPOSSIBLE ,, dont beleive this kind of rubbish .


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                  • artika rama

                    invisible elphant this is impossible http://agreenroad.blogspot.hk/2013/04/fukushima-heating-ocean-3-melted.html
                    No nuke plant can have any effect on the temperature of the ocean .
                    These are misunderstanding , totally against science,, i cant emphasize how wrongthese statements are.
                    Imagine you get into your car and start the engine , gasses from the engine will go up into the atmosphere and in the end global warming may cause warming up the ocean . OKE you car plays SOME part in heating up of the planet , just like my car and the other cars ,, BUT if you would tell me that i would turn on the heater in my car open the windows change the climate by letting all trhe warm air out ,, i say its impossible right ? the similar event is happening here .
                    If the HEAT from fukushima would be SOOO MUCH to heat up the ocean ,, the whole fukushima prefecture would be boiling now . The coriums under those plants can have thopusands of degrees but THEY DONT HAVE THE MASS to heat up even the smallest sea let alone the ocean ,, infact you could go to fukushima and stand next to a those plants / buildings and you wouldnt even feel the heat from the coriums laying underneath those buildings ,, it just ruins every rule in the book ,, things dont work that way ,, BUT there are people who believe ET has done it ,, so what do we do ? we have to respect their opinion ,, BUT ,, just as they have the right to believe anything they want even though its against science and everything we know ,,


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                    • artika rama

                      we also have the right NOT to beleive in anyone trying to sell us any nonsense.
                      If one doesnt even have the basic science education level then no sense in discussing anything ,, anything is possible ,, what if someone reverses the gravity and the coriums end up in argentina ,, or uruguay ?? there are people believing in that ,,if they want to believe in that they cant ,, but that doesnt change the fact that its totall %X$% IMO ,,
                      In short , scinece is NOT about belief ,, its about facts ,, you cant just make up anything and hope people to believe that ,, anyone who thinks a nuke plant can warm up the ocean DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THE FUKU HE IS TALKING ABOUT ,,,only advice i can give to these people si to go back to primary school and start all over again .
                      BUT then again ,, if we are going to talk about BELIEF ,, then one can believe anything they want right ?


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      You declare it to be impossible while you've got a link in your post with evidence that points to it happening.

                      Can you address the evidence please?


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                    • artika rama

                      invisible elephant It is no evidence ,, its totall nonsense ,, no evidence ,,just made up bullshit hypothesize by someone who has no understanding of science ,, just like that dana guy we have been talking about for an hour .
                      Who has the evidence ? has anyone measured the temp and found out it was higher after fuku ? how high was it ? who did the experimaent ? i dont see no evidence,, only garbage ,, this is not science,, i am sorry .
                      I am not going to respond to this thread anymore . I just hope people would stop publishing these kinds of nonsense ,, it causes a lot of damage to the whole antinuke movement .


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      Nuclear Climatologist Dr. Angstrom H. Troubador said, “Even if no more radiation were to leak, we could conservatively estimate another 80 years of increased Pacific Ocean surface temperatures. Global humidity will not decrease until the fallout loses most of its potency in 40 years. There are no imaginable countermeasures to waterborne oceanic fallout that will not increase the already considerable strain on ocean life.”

                      http://www.chronicle.su/news/pacific-ocean-heating-rapidly-after-new-fukushima-leak

                      artika rama said, "It is no evidence ,, its totall nonsense ,, no evidence ,,just made up bullshit hypothesize by someone who has no understanding of science ,, just like that dana guy we have been talking about for an hour ."

                      [sarcasm]Gee, who to take seriously? Such a tough choice.[/sarcasm]


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                    • artika rama

                      many moons Dont beleive these kinds of nonsense ,, that s impossible .. you cannot warm up a village using just a candle ,, you cannot warm up an ocean using a power plant ,, I ran out of examples , and explanations ,


                      Report comment

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      hate to tell you, many moons, but the article's a spoof. The guy that produces this stuff (Angstrom H. Troubador) is a dis-info agent…


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      artika rama,

                      You seem to be in serious denial, the worst I recall seeing in my life in fact.

                      You've ignored every bit of genuine evidence presented and you even declared genuine evidence to not be evidence at all.

                      You've got a serious problem, I wish you would seek help.


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      invisible earth Just this sentence "' A new study by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration shows that temperatures in the Pacific are heating up at an enormous rate, due to another massive leak of radiation at Fukushima."" JUST THAT,, nothing else ,, shows that the idiot who wrote this article (or claims to wrote a scientific paper) DOESNT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between heat and radiation .
                      Temperatures are HEATING up because of RADIATION leak ??? ,, should I say more ?? .if you know ANYTHING about science you cannot publish any "scientific"paper claiming THAT . .
                      The very first sentence of the so called "study "shows its level . SO yeah , tough choice ,, whom to beleive ?? hmm a bogus study or some common sense geee i would go for common sense ,,
                      I keep saying this again and again ,, but it is so wrong ,, it is absurd ,, it is ridiculous ,, and if you cant get your mind around it ,,ask a 10 year old to explain you why ,, this is so wrong its funny ,, i cant believe i am trying to explain a grown up person why a power plant can NOT heat up the ocean ,, seriously i am done here ,, beleive whatever you want to believe,,
                      bye


                      Report comment

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      I checked the NOAA site and couldn't find this supposed 'study'…


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      "hate to tell you, many moons, but the article's a spoof. The guy that produces this stuff (Angstrom H. Troubador) is a dis-info agent…"

                      Can you prove any of that?


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      all i can say is ; i just hope that not many people are watching this thread now and thinking we are just a bunch of nutcases believing in a power plant warming up the whole ocean :)
                      cause this kind of stuff causes much more serious damage to this forum than any shill or any pronuke troll IMO.
                      Take good care everyone ,, whatever you believe in :)
                      peace.


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      invisible earth I am not ignoring anything i just dont see any sense in discussing this . it goes aaginst everything i have learned . If you are asking me to throw away all the logic all the common sense and believe in something totally opposite of what i know , then the whole issue of discuiion is lost isnt it . ANything is possible , everything is possible so why even discuss.
                      IF you have credible information ,, yes i would DEFINITELY like to know , show me a real scientific evidence , a theroy or a hypothesis or even just some data showing some temp increasew right after fukushima so i can at least think ,,well maybe there is something i dont know ,, maybe something i missed ,, something i need to understand . You cant just claim it is so just because you claim it is .
                      If you think ocean is warming up , how then ? what is your theory ? why do you claim that ? where is the data ?
                      give me something to consider.


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                    • harengus_acidophilus

                      Let's do some math
                      Re: Art @ at 2:03 pm

                      (Over-)estimated mass of the 3 coria
                      mc= 5e2 (metric) tons [t] = 5e5 [kg]
                      Guessed temp. tc = 5273[K] = 5000[°C](9032[°F])
                      Mass of Pacific mp ~ 7.13605e20[kg]
                      temp. tp ~ 278[K] = 5[°C] (41°F)
                      k1(water) ~ 4.2; k2(uran) 116
                      (specific heat capacity [J/(K*kg)])
                      we set k2 ~ 27.62*k1
                      now is(mc*tc*k2 + mp*tp*k1)/k1 to calculate
                      =(mc*tc*27.62*k1 + mp*tp*k1)/(k1*(mc+mp))
                      =(mc*tc*27.62 + mp*tp)/(mc+mp)
                      = 278.000000000101850… [K]
                      > http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28%285e5*5273*27.62%29+%2B+%287.13605e20*278%29%29+%2F+%285e5+%2B+7.13605e20%29

                      It's maybe measurable, but negligable.
                      Why disputing, if you can calculate?

                      h.


                      Report comment

                    • harengus_acidophilus

                      Damn typo

                      now is(mc*tc*k2 + mp*tp*k1)/k1 to calculate
                      must be
                      now is(mc*tc*k2 + mp*tp*k1)/(k1(mc+mp)) to calculate

                      sry, h.


                      Report comment

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      which, artika rama, is the objective behind such theories. It's called 'poisoning the well' and has been in used since the days of the JFK investigations. This counterintelligence technique is used to discredit credible theories and marginalize all those involved in an investigation, by associating them all with extreme (and, extremist) theories. In our case, we're looking to flesh-out viable truths from-what little information has been made available to us. Then, the likes of "Dr. Angstrom H. Troubador" come along with 'researched' material; material, that can't be traced-back to the alleged sources (in this case, the NOAA). (BTW. Do a little research into this guy. You'll love his range of 'expertise'.) To compound the problem, well meaning people gravitate to these 'insider' theories and unwittingly fall prey to the 'viruses' life-cycle. But all one need do ask for the sources behind the story. Dig deep enough and you'll discover the truth for yourself; that is, of course, if you want to know the truth…


                      Report comment

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      which, harengus_acidophilus, was my reasoning behind my suggestion that ELEphant look into the physics of the proposed problem. And when you look at the map he references through the agreenroad blog, you'll quickly notice that the heat is localized to the area of interest. And, while not as hot as you'd expect, you should also notice localized heat signatures in differing regions of the world, that closely match the temperature excursions within the Fukushima area. You should also note, that unlike the map that's featured in the Angstrom H. Troubador 'article', the agreenroad map illustrates how the extreme temperatures are quickly dampened by the mass of surrounding water. Green Road's map is obviously more credible…


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      harengus a, aftershock Thanks . A lot of trolls shills trying to misinform everyone . The thing is If one wants to damage the antinuke movement the best way to do it ,is to pretend he/she is antinuke and start spreading nonsense theories , Every nonsense theory / info wil be used agaisnt the whole,antinuke movement .
                      AN example : just One guy used the wrong map (a tsunami map) trying to explain how radiation would spread across the pacific and to this day it has been used in every discussion against the antinuke movement . Even discovery /dnews have a youtube video about it.
                      Just one mistake , misinfo by one guy is enough .
                      Now having said that I am sure invisible elephant is not a shill and he/she believes in what he / she says but the reslut is the same .
                      If i go to a discussion forum and i have a look and people are saying things like fukushima caused the storm , then that forum looses its credibility in my opinion as well .Thats whats bugging me.
                      We are often portrayed as nutcases who dont know what we are dealing with and just fear mongering paranoid tin foil hat wearing loosers.Altoguh its just the opposite , these kinds of extreme theories is not helping . Just like banana potato and airplane flight theories . some of them are del;iberately produced just for the purpose of ridiculing us ,, and some unintentionalyy IMO like this one about warming up of the ocean.
                      in any case i just hope enenews doesnt turn into a discussion forum about ET causing fukushima…


                      Report comment

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      we're on the same page, artika rama. I'm also glad you're not blaming ELEphant for positing the theory, out here. It's an endless battle avoiding the misinformation and disinformation that's constantly showered-down on all of us. And BTW. There were those who tried to sell the ET's-behind-this theory…


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                    • harengus_acidophilus

                      Therefore I'd like the math way.

                      It offers proof w/o opinion and every side can calm down back to the facts. Sadly it don't work on every problem but, it's good to sort knownledge from believe.

                      Step by step ;-)

                      h.


                      Report comment

                    • zogerke zogerke

                      AR and Aftershock, Aftershock- I just read this- If i could record clapping for you here, I would. Yes! well done proof and analysis.


                      Report comment

                    • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                      thanks zogerke…


                      Report comment

                    • VanneV anne

                      antika rama, you need to do some research if you want the truth:

                      Krypton-85 up over 14,000% in one day at Reactor No. 2 — Kr-85 used to detect “plutonium separations”
                      http://enenews.com/just-in-krypton-85-up-over-14000-in-a-day-at-reactor-no-2-kr-85-used-to-detect-plutonium-separations
                      Meteorological Consequences of Atmospheric Krypton-85
                      http://www.sciencemag.org/content/193/4249/195.extract
                      Climate risks by radioactive krypton-85 from nuclear fission Atmospheric-electrical and air-chemical effects of ionizing radiation in the atmosphere
                      Klimarisiken durch radioaktives Krypton-85 aus der Kernspaltung Luftelektrische und luftchemische Wirkungen ionisierender Strahlung in der Atmosphaere
                      Authors :
                      Kollert, R. (Kollert und Donderer, Bremen (Germany)) ; Gewaltfreie Aktion Kaiseraugst, Liestal (Switzerland) ;
                      Corporate author :
                      Bund fuer Umwelt und Naturschutz Deutschland e.V. (BUND), Freiburg im Breisgau (Germany). Landesverband Baden-Wuerttemberg ; Bund Naturschutz in Bayern e.V., Muenchen (Germany) ;
                      Copyright :
                      1994
                      Language :
                      German ;
                      Abstract :
                      The study shows that krypton-85 from nuclear fission enhances air ionization and, thus, interferes with the atmospheric-electrical system and the water balance of the earth atmosphere. This is reason for concern: There are unforeseeable effects for weather and climate if the krypton-85 content of the earth atmosphere continues to rise. There may be a krypton-specific greenhouse effect and a collapse of the natural…


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                    • VanneV anne

                      There may be a krypton-specific greenhouse effect and a collapse of the natural atmospheric-electrical field. In addition, human well-being may be expected to be impaired as a result of the diminished atmospheric-electrical field. There is also the risk of radiochemical actions and effects caused-by krypton-85-containing plumes in other air-borne pollutants like the latters’ transformation to aggressive oxidants. This implies radiation smog and more acid rain in the countries exposed. This study summarizes findings gained in these issues by various sciences, analyses them and elaborates hypotheses on the actions and effects of krypton-85 on the air, the atmosphere and the climate. (orig./HP) ;
                      Quoted at: http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169683

                      What’s causing these monster hurricanes and tornadoes?
                      “Recently there have been some suggestions that charged ions can, even at small concentrations, can have a (substantial?) effect on the formation of certain type’s of clouds (Marsh and Svensmark; 2000, Harrison, 2000; Carslaw et al., 2002)…
                      If confirmed this would imply that a changing concentration of krypton-85 could affect to some extent the earth’s climate.”
                      Source: MNP Report 500116003/2007
                      The effect of a nuclear energy expansion strategy in Europe on health damages from air pollution
                      Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency
                      http://thedailybite.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/whats-causing-these-monster-tornadoes/
                      All this is in another file


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      anne Hi anne , with this sentence "antika rama, you need to do some research if you want the truth:" you are suggecting i dont do research , its not true. i do .

                      I am sorry but i think you didnt understand what the discussion is about

                      Its been a long discussion and maybe its difficult to check the older posts but maybe a summary would help to clearify a few things
                      1; I am against the fact that fukushima could increse the temperature of the pacific ocean ,, literally thermically make it warmer.
                      2; i have said several times earlier , i am NOT against nuke planst havoing an influence on the wqeather , infact i believe the whole green energy scam is just that ,, nuke plants have an influence on global warming .
                      i have said this , discussed it several times repeatedly .
                      i dont claim that !!
                      I am saying thet HEAT from fukushima CAN NOT warm up pacific ocean .
                      That is false .


                      Report comment

                  • bf9 bf9

                    I watched his video yesterday and I can't watch it again until much later, *I could be totally mistaken* but I recall his theory is that the storms' power wouldn't be so much generated from thermal heat from the ocean but rather storm cells are now super-charged with ions through ocean evaporation into said cells. Strontium, tritium, cesium, plutonium and all our favorite ol' pals shooting off electrons at great speed "charging" the storm system once evaporated up.

                    I'm not the most knowledgeable on weather but this does seem far more plausible from the descending fallout from above the troposphere and the jet stream. I would think that all these isotopes are too heavy to evaporate with water except tritium. But hey, there's been a shitload of that released too so…


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                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      bf9,

                      I think you're right. This conversation got off on a tangent about whether the ocean could be heated by Fukushima but that's actually not really relevant as to whether or not Fukushima could be causing superstorms in my opinion.

                      I suspected that artika rama was trying to pull this conversation off on a tangent with the persistent use of fallacies like straw man, red herring, and ad hominem. He/she actually caused this to be a watered-down off-track conversation then stormed off after being successful. :)


                      Report comment

                  • artika rama

                    invisible earth I have no evidence ,, so it must be true ,, :)


                    Report comment

                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      It's true that you haven't bothered to produce any actual evidence for your claims.

                      Meanwhile, you refuse to acknowledge that the fact that Dana was right in his prediction is evidence that his theory is right.

                      Yes, correct predictions such as what Dana did are evidence that a theory is right. Also, the more bold the correct prediction the more strongly it supports the theory.

                      Therefore, Dana's correct prediction in this case gives his theory a lot of clout.

                      But, you've totally ignored that fact.

                      You also totally ignored the photographic evidence I presented earlier which I would say is iron-clad. Can you actually make a strong coherent argument to disprove that? Are you capable of that?


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      invisible elephant I didnt produce any evidence cause there is no evidence to prove of something that is NOT there .
                      I am sorry but i am not convinced about Danas theory or your theory about nuke plants warming up an ocean .
                      I dont wish to discuss it anymore .
                      This discussion is not going anywhwere its counter productive and i am going to stop .
                      Thanks acidophulous , aftershock .:)


                      Report comment

                • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                  Arizonan, keep digging and the information is out there. :)

                  I guess if its 105 degrees outside and the sun is blaring and I am in my bare feet and I could step out onto asphalt or onto green grass, I would certainly pick the green grass. :)

                  They both absorb the sun's energy but in very different ways..

                  Pretty sure we need to plant/grow more alive green things on land and in the oceans.. :)


                  Report comment

                  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                    Ionizing Energy whether manmade or natural is still excitable energy and all of it can heat whatever it comes into contact with.. :(
                    http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch23/radiation.php#top
                    http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Safety-and-Security/Radiation-and-Health/Radiation-and-Life/

                    Do not be fooled by the "big pool" theory since the dead sea snot says otherwise. :(


                    Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      obewanspeaks I do agree ,, it is energy but we have to consider the masses we are dealing with .
                      They just make these stuff up . There is no measurement of the temp. of t ocean , what is it then ? they cant provide anything . You cant just claim ocean got warmer because of fukushima without any evidence ? How warm is it then ? where are the temperature measurements ? who did it ? under which circumstances ? did they evaluate all other possible reasons for that ? etc etc ANswer is:NOOO NOTHING ,, just some guy says radiation is energy , and heat is energy so there you go radiation heats up the ocean ,, well sorry but it doesnt work like that ,, what if i would claim that people walking around are warming up the world . Why not ?,walking creates friction , friction causes heat a lot of people walking around a lot of heat ,, it heats up the planet ,, MY theory of "global walking",, too much walking ,,
                      well ofcourse its just bullshit ,, you dont need to be even a scientist to see that right? . I mean common sense says its not possible . No matter how sytrongly i BELIVE in my theory its just a rubbish theory . you know it ,, i know it ,, but someone just says he or she believes in it ,, and we have to respect that ,, well oke then . if they want to beleive in "walking people theory" then so be it . there is no way of discussing it . This is just waste of time . Have to stop . peace :)


                      Report comment

                    • invisible ELEphant in the room

                      Great post.

                      More evidence for artika rama to ignore but the rest of us can benefit from this. :)


                      Report comment

                    • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                      Well I am not sure we really know what we are dealing with and that is the real problem. :)

                      Could Fukushima's massive amounts of released magnetic energy in the form of radiation contamination be creating the ongoing high pressure system now seen in the Pacific Ocean and could this 3 year long spewing ionizing radiation energy event be changing the world's weather patterns?

                      Do we have enough information to determine such things?

                      Certainly Fukushima is now a prime suspect, since California is now setting all kinds of records.. :(

                      Best to shut down such Nuclear Technology until we humans better understand all the consequences of its use here on the Earth and its repeated uncontrolled releases into/on a global environmental "out of control" scale.

                      We are quickly entering unknown territory and some might call it the Outer Limits and/or the Twilight Zone. :)

                      I personally think we are cooking ourselves.. :(


                      Report comment

                    • daphne daphne

                      Like cell,phones cooking ones brain by holding them to ones head?


                      Report comment

                • daphne daphne

                  Why can't the water running over the curium that ripens into the ocean heat it? If it's 9000 degrees and water flows constantly over it, would it have an effect?


                  Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      daphne No thanks :) . I am glad if it helps :) take good care .


                      Report comment

                    • Arizonan Arizonan

                      It is too little, like trying to warm a swimming pool with a candle. Artika, do not waste your energy. Some people aregullible. I should think just the authors name in that spoof article, angstrom troubadour, would alert people that it was a spoof. Im sure someone does have avg ocean temps 1940 1950 1960 etc, so one cd tell whether atmospheric wrapons radiation fallout had even a one degree effect, but wd be imposs to tell if from rad or from fossil fuels. Those tests did help destroy ozone tho I believe.


                      Report comment

                  • artika rama

                    daphne Because its too little . Imagine you would take a cup of hot water and pour it into a swimming pool , would that heat the swimming pool ?.
                    The same thing here . 9000 degrees coriums , underneath the nuke plants in fukushima and you could be standing next to the plant and you wouldnt feel any heat .
                    Therefore It s not just the degrees right .
                    9000 degrees may seem VERY hot but its only a few hundred tons compared to the ocean!!! ,,In comperison to the ocean a few hundred tons is SOOOOO small that its insignificant .
                    Infact a lightning can get MUCH hotter than the coriums ,up to 50,000 degrees but its not going to melt the cities and houses and everythingaround it rigtht (unless you get struck by one ofcourse) .
                    So its NOT just how hot it is right?
                    Do not believe these kind of misinfo ,
                    these people like invisible elepehant dana have no idea what they are talking about and they are just spreading lies.
                    Everyone can build a website and pretend to be an expert on anything and publish their so called scientific research .Why they are doing it is a totally different issue , but these are all fake , they are just lies and misinfo .
                    My worry is that they can convince people like you about their lies and they can do a lot of damage to the efforst of all the goog people here on this site trying to inform us .
                    Unfortunately idiots doing it do not necesarrily realise the damage .
                    Its sad but not much we can do about it.
                    Peace :)


                    Report comment

                    • daphne daphne

                      Thanks artika Rama


                      Report comment

                    • harengus_acidophilus

                      Let's make another math

                      Above was my (simplyfied) assumtion:
                      -3 coria with ~ 500[t] now we add spare pools and (for sure) double the mass, let's say 6000 [t] double again for control rods, iron etc. 12000[t]
                      -temp of coria was 5000[°C] let's assume 50,000 [°C] (sun ~ 6000)
                      -mass of pacific … let's take just the upper 500 [m] this will be ~8,467e19 [t]
                      - and we'll double and round heat capacity of coria to k2=60*k1

                      Oh, we getting … hot?
                      Not really: 278.000000000427462…[K]
                      Above was: 278.000000000101850…[K]

                      If your imagination doesn't fit, try math!

                      h.


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      harenguos acidophilous Thanks again acidophilous :) any time i need calculations i know whom to ask ,, you are like the calculator of this site :) great job :)
                      PS your nick sounds like the name of a bacteria lol ,, maybe harengous_calculus would be a more suitable one ??,, ;)


                      Report comment

                    • harengus_acidophilus

                      Just a poor translation to latin.

                      "harengus" is herring, it's food for trolls.
                      They argue against math, but math is truth ;-)

                      I these days, maybe I should alter him to
                      "harengus_radiodurans", what do you think?

                      h.


                      Report comment

                    • artika rama

                      harengous ,, yeah , sure harengous-radiodurans = a short and easy to remember nick ,, great ;)


                      Report comment

          • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

            Don't forget the effects of Global Dimming (look it up). Things are not as simple as pseudo-scientists make it out to be.


            Report comment

            • bo bo

              Yes, at first when I heard 'global dimming' I thought it was about the intelligence average of humans lowering across the globe. But now I know what it is.

              The earth is becoming warmer but at the same time becoming cooler both due to blanket of CO 2. I imagine it kind of like installing thick drapes, to prevent draft in a room and keep it warm, but that thick curtain also blocking sunlight and preventing it from room temperature to rise.


              Report comment

            • artika rama

              sykewar Ofcourse , that is a plausible theory ,, i dont have to agree with that , but it is based on some scientific principle ,, it can be correct , it can be false ,, but it IS SCIENCE at least .
              Has some sense , some logic in it .
              When they say nuke plants caused global warming , i beleive it is partly true .
              but when someone says a power plant is heating up the ocean ,, well then i know its time to stop discussion :)


              Report comment

  • Combat Corium Radiation Ignorance: Help Get The Rad Word Out!

    To all visitors and the community of ENENews, the following Japan Radiation Citizen Memos are designed to be widely shared everywhere in your local and internet communities. All citizens need to know about Fukushima. Find bulletin boards in your local area and post on social websites. Tell the People.

    Japan Radiation Memo to All Citizens PDF
    http://tinyurl.com/Japan-Radiation-Citizens-Memo

    Japan Radiation Memo in JPEG (for social media upload)
    http://tinyurl.com/Japan-Radiation-Memo-JPEG

    Vital1's Radiation Memo to Parents
    http://technologypals.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/lifesaver.pdf

    Doesn't take much. A printer. Scissors. Thumbtacks. For some,
    only a computer. And the simple motivation to share your care.

    It is also requested that everyone who can, please "like" and "share" ENENews throughout your use of social media. https://www.facebook.com/ENENEW

    Fukushima is a mess always headed west. Tell the People. TY


    Report comment

    • clamshellernh clamshellernh

      Hi Chemfood please include this site for materials as well for getting the word out
      Enenews is on there as well
      These guys have really done a great job
      Letters. Stickers ..petitions .pamplets all there to enlighten
      This is now my go to site

      http://www.fukushimaresponse.org/Actions.html

      Sent from my F-iPad


      Report comment

      • will do clamsheller

        if you want to find all the links referenced to getting the rad word out, they can consistently be found here
        http://enenews.com/forum-best-practices-combating-effects-radiation/comment-page-12#comment-439105


        Report comment

        • clamshellernh clamshellernh

          Will do clamshellernh
          I'm sorry I'm confused I was talking about print outs stickers pamplets ect.. To be included for those inclined to posting things out in public .
          I don't see what you are sharing including this aside from having folks come to just this site for further study and the one for children that is quite good I might add . Anyhow I feel you may want to contact them for better representation of this group , did you clink on the link ?
          Whatever it takes thank you


          Report comment

          • clamshellernh clamshellernh

            Just went there to check again and it's just an online petition , not that that's bad but I feel we may have more to sell so to speak in linkage . Perhaps a brief ditti of this sites purpose ??? And your sheet /printout of tear offs of this link to site
            We have to give more on a quick level
            First you have to have them read it , yes? Then tear it . Yes. Then have them remember what is in the pocket T the end of the day but a small piece of addy that invariably gets tossed into the trash with the empty gum wrappers .
            I've been at this along time and that's my experience
            Anyone care to chime in ?
            With your ideas and wxperience we get a better idea of what works
            Put your feet in the shoes of the consumer of info …
            I'll work with you chem on this if you would like ….


            Report comment

  • PhilipUpNorth PhilipUpNorth

    Don't want this thread to disappear without addressing the issue of "Cooling Water".
    Every day, since April, 2011, TEPCO has pumped about 300 tonnes of cooling water through Reactors1-3. About 100 tonnes of water per day is recovered, drained out of the floor of containment vessels, and pumped up to the tank farm on the hill. The rest leaks out through holes, like the pipe hole in Unit3, now of interest, and like the big hole in the bottom of the containment vessel in the drawing above.
    If the drawing is accurate, there is little melted fuel left in containment vessels to cool.
    All they are really doing is spraying water on fuel splatter left behind from exploding reactors.
    This is creating a large and growing amount of heavily-contaminated water.
    Filtration of nuclides from this water occurs in fits and starts, but cannot keep up with the volume of cooling water used every day.
    TEPCO claims the temperature of the 3 reactors would climb if they stop the cooling water injections.
    Meanwhile, the tank farm is running out of room, and the vast majority of Tepco's time and effort goes into the handling, storage, and treatment of a vast quantity of highly contaminated water.
    By the way, roughly 2/3 of the water dumped into the 3 reactors ends up filling the corium lava tubes, and backing up into basements, turbine buildings, and trenches around the plamt.
    If there is no corium left inside Reactors1-3, the cooling water effort can stop.


    Report comment

    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      PhilipUpNorth: But aren't they still clinging to the story that the corium has not left? Stopping the water would indicate, assuming they told anyone, that indeed the corium has left? Also, allowing the water to eventually boil off, assuming it is in contact with the corium, would this not then create a more dangerous situation? I don't think they have a choice.


      Report comment

      • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

        I should add, the question of running out of room for the tanks was addressed a long time ago. I remember reading they had planned to dump the tank water into the ocean at whatever rate necessary to remain within the confines of their current storage situation. I predict (any bookies out there?) the Tepco subsidiary will walk away from the plant.


        Report comment

      • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

        You can "cling" to the story thru ignorance or willful deceit…but the photo's, as well as the radiation levels, tell the true story.

        The question is what is more dangerous in the SHORT term.

        Air borne or water borne.

        They choose air.

        Either way though…the earth loses.


        Report comment

    • Arizonan Arizonan

      Philip, as usual both sage and accurate. I have been reading enenews every day for 3 years, and Phillipupnorths comment is one of the sanest most eloquent simple stick to the facts summary of the situation I have read in a long time.


      Report comment

  • Arizonan Arizonan

    The sarcophogus should be a full sphere, with boran and lead sandwiched between layers of saltwater resistant concrete. The sphere should extend underground in an effort to (still) catch the coriums, which may not have traveled straight down, but, like water, along a path of least resistance, poss slower than what theorists have believed, or not, we have no actual data on its location, despite the pretty tepco graphic, which leaves out two of the meltdowns altogether.


    Report comment

  • Arizonan Arizonan

    Without a global attempt at a spherical sarcophogus, we shall be reading the same headline from Tokyo about radioactive contaminated water leaks until we die. Then our children, grandchildren, and greatgrandchildren will read that same Fukushima headline throughout their lives. And it will not end there. The states should call on Congress to help establish an indepedent UN emergency body commissioned with engineering a spherical sarcophogus as soon as posible. The freezy wall is some insane idea that would require onsite electricity generation for 100,000 years at least. Tepco profits. Fail.


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  • haizedustrium-1234 haizedustrium-1234

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/simplyinfo/10952432473/in/photostream/lightbox/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/simplyinfo/10952192615/in/photostream/lightbox/

    There could also be more of this inside the building with anything less than 1000k steaming highly radioactive steam off, sort of cooled off but deadly.


    Report comment

  • Nick

    I get the sense that many of us are grasping at straws when we try and comprehend what Fukushima is/was/will be and it's effects on our biosphere.

    The facts, regardless of how you look at them, are pretty sobering.

    I don't think our atmosphere can handle the constant flux of ionizing radiation, the molecules of gas within the air will capture some of the decaying atomic energies and, in turn, become radioactive.

    What happens when parts of the atmosphere start acting in peculiar ways?

    Our atmosphere evolved over eons, eventually forming a shield (coupled with earth's magnetic field) to block out much of the deadly radiation from space, allowing for life to flourish.

    It's possible that vast areas of the Pacific are becoming devoid of plankton and as a result, causing the ambient water temperature to rise.


    Report comment

  • Wyakin Wyakin

    The complete embassy document contains regurgitated and cherry picked data. While the document itself was published in December 2013, I happened to notice a nearly identical 137Cs chart in section 4 originally referenced by Jota Kanda in a separate article in January 2013, and is based on 2011 data from Chino (2011), Bailly du Bois(2011,) Morino (2011), Stohl (2011), et al. Even then, Kanda recognized “Fukushima at up to 77 quadrillion Bq (77 PBq); Chernobyl at 85 quadrillion Bq (85 PBq)” but acknowledges “Fukushima releases [as] ongoing.”

    http://enenews.com/japan-professor-compares-cesium-137-releases-during-worlds-worst-nuclear-disasters-up-to-77-quadrillion-bq-77-pbq-from-fukushima-85-quadrillion-85-pbq-from-chernobyl-fukushima-disaster-is

    Using 2011 FU radiation release figures in a December 2013 Radioactive Contaminated Water Leaks report to assert that FU is equal to or not as significant as Chernobyl and Sellafield based only on 137Cs and 131I releases is pathetic. Releases continue unabated to this day. This propaganda does not pass the truthfulness threshold, but its redeeming quality may be the officially recognized corium location graphic, which may have more anti-propaganda value than any of us can appreciate.


    Report comment

    • Wyakin Wyakin

      BTW-Excellent discussion from all on the potential approaches for remediating the site.

      I have many scientific thoughts as well, but will save those for some other time. When I prioritize actions required initiate any type of remediation, a few messy issues emerge as obstacles. These include regulators who protect the industry from regulations that might negatively impact industry financial statements, the national and international institutions that perpetuate NPP proliferation to the benefit of corporations at the the cost of health of citizens and DNA sharing species, a nuclear lobby that has bought many of the votes in the US and Japanese government institutions, and of course the contentious details of how to pay for FU remediation, and obtain Japanese permission to remediate in that nation’s sovereign territory, etc.

      A high level excellent 15 point road map for remediation starts here:

      http://www.nirs.org/fukushima/expert-ltr-bankimoon-09-2013.pdf

      Remediation cannot be done without addressing the obstacles erected predating the FU disaster. Until they are addressed, Fukushima will become yet another monument attesting mankind's hubris and risk taking by profiteers at the expense of the general populace and future generations.


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  • ftlt

    Global Dimming as put forward here above: This stuff is straight out of the conservative play book of denier science funded by the fossil fuel industry fund, the real estate industry, the religious right and free market think tanks – the same forces that support nuclear power. Links to this subject can be found on all reactionary "half truth weird faux science" websites.

    The global dimming arousal/particulates effects has never been gone unstudied nor ignored and not discussed in the scientific community surrounding Climate Change. BBC had a sensationalized documentary on this in the mid 2000s – this placed subject into realm of the pseudo science forces.

    And how can one not see FUFU and runaway free market industrialization as being part and parcel. To champion our industrial activities as a positive is insane IMO.

    Our addiction to energy is killing the planet. It has caused the FUFUs and the ones to come as it is causing climate change too.


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    • TooExpensiveToMatter

      Real Climate talks about "Global Dimming"
      http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/01/global-dimming/

      The cooling effect of particulates may be counteracting the warming due to CO2 somewhat, but scientists are well aware of such effects and such particulates are certainly no reason to be unconcerned about CO2 emissions, not least of all because when (if?) countries like China do clean up their particulate (sulfate aerosol) emissions, there may be an increase in warming due to loss of counteracting effect.

      The cooling effect is short lived at any rate, unlike the warming due to CO2 (since sulfates get washed out by rain and CO2 sticks around for a very long time).

      I agree completely that the main problem is our energy addiction, in particular, our addiction to "dirty energy".

      Of course, there ARE clean energy sources, but the monied interests (fossil fuel and nuclear, primarily) don't like them because they are (or at least can be) decentralized and hence don't lend themselves to corporations making a killing through control of the energy supply.


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    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      ftlt: diatribe. You said: This stuff is straight out of the conservative play book of denier science funded by the fossil fuel industry fund, the real estate industry, the religious right and free market think tanks – the same forces that support nuclear power. Links to this subject can be found on all reactionary "half truth weird faux science" websites.

      Links?


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  • ftlt

    Skye: HAHAHAHAHA..

    Do you really believe you are intimidating?

    I'm not taking this personal. It is the way you have treated many on here.

    Stop bullying people, pal


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  • ftlt

    Skye: Read the transcript on the BBC… As I thought, it was cherry picked and a sensationalist Nat.Geo/Channel Discovery science like Doom-umentary. BBC is going downhill fast.

    Quite lame really.

    Have you bothered to read the articles I posted?

    The facts are the world continues to warm in spite of the aerosol/particulate effects (which have always been included in modeling). Meanwhile, weather extreme events are accelerating in occurance -(California/Western drought (where I live) and the East's Winter vortex are most likely worsened manifestations of this – driven by a failed/collapsing Arctic Oscillation. Global temperatures, ocean acidification, ice melt etc. are still headed in the wrong direction. The CC modeling is on target or worse cases are being observed pointing towards a Climate disaster.

    I see the 9/11 air fight stoppage phenomena was mentioned. Just think, we do this eveyday. That has got to be a good thing, right?

    You are attacking people on here while you are promoting business as usual. Hmmm??? Everyone else is the shill and the hack? Hmmm??

    You seem to have the disconnect between nuclear energy and energy use in general. Fracking and deep ocean drilling must be OK with you… How are you on coal use?

    Or am I confused with what you were saying above about our industrial society.


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    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      ftlt: and you don't answer my question! What is it I am supposed to be denying????

      I'm going through your links and compiling a rebuttal. Have you bothered to research the people behind these ten year old articles? The first link is from a data analyst whose background is mathematics. But it'll be a while since I do have a life.

      But never the less, you'll write an essay here but you won't answer my question. Why is that? You're way out of line, calling me names and being abusive and that's something socref would do. And where's he today?


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    • ftlt

      Beyond energy, there is the depletion of all resources and an increase in risk taking toxic methods used to extract a diminishing finite supply of them. Water, metals, other minerals, and our soils are all under extreme stress and have their own terrible consequences that are confronting us and the planet we live on.

      Yes, nuclear is horrible and a worst offender here.

      But, pollution of all kinds carries a threat to our health, safety, genetic pool and risk causing disease to all life. Nuclear is the star here – but, it is not the only threat.

      Man's lifestyle and technological hubris threatens us in these and other ways. It is our greatest threat of all. It is the root of all of the rest. It is the core problem.

      Business as usual must be halted. Bankruptcy is nothing compared to extinction.

      We need to live on less and learn to live well and not better – or perish. It is that simple.


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    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      ftlt: so you're saying particulate matter can't dim the sun? Is this what you're saying? Wow, so Bejing's lack of sun is what? THis?
      You: "This stuff is straight out of the conservative play book of denier science funded by the fossil fuel industry fund, the real estate industry, the religious right and free market think tanks – the same forces that support nuclear power. Links to this subject can be found on all reactionary "half truth weird faux science" websites."


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  • name999 name999

    ftlt, I didn't think, if we are still talking about the BBC documentary, that it was justifying the
    incalculable waste of the toxic titans. Just that there was in some ways, some compensation
    that occured with dimming the skies. I didn't think it was making a case for it. Just observing it as a factor in atmosphere. It was pretty interesting. I didn't think it defended waste
    and greed. The images of starvation in Africa were numbing. Hard to watch.


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    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      name999: correct. All this was showing was the impact of dimming which is cooling and that since the various laws went into effect that dealt with lowering particulate matter (diesel,coal, etc.) there was a corresponding warming. So the dimming was masking the full effect of the warming and if the dimming should decrease even a little, the result would be enormous warming. The rate and degree of change is a theory. I in no way (check it) endorsed anything global warming pro or con. I read about this years ago. There's many shows, BBC, NOVA, etc. that have covered this. Many papers from climatologists from around the freaking world that have written about this. And ftlt goes friggin batshit on me calling me names, etc. And I'll say again, won't answer a frigging simple question.


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      • SadieDog

        @ Syke , Would you please stop arguing constantly? At least here. I am not calling ANYBODY ANYTHING, but you a wearing thin. Quickly.


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      • ftlt

        Skye: Batboy, you are the head name caller on here. You have been doing it all over the place to many people.

        Are you that child in the picture? You act like it.

        That many who have written about this is cooling effect is correct. Their conclusions were and are NOT in the main the same as yours is true too… Only paid the hacks of the denier skeptics and energy industry have charged ahead with this business as usual cooling effect nonsense..

        It is much the same as the discredited sun spot activity denier global warming explanation in the 2000s. That was clearly proven to be false by years of historical data. And yet, they still went forward with it in the media. Why??? Climate change is a political issue. It is being paid for so that Climate Change science will be marginalized and ignored. Very effectively too. Just like the Nuclear industry does with its web of toxic lies.


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        • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

          ftlt/socref: among other things, you called me a denier. what am I denying?


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          • Jebus Jebus

            Sky, would you stop? WTF is wrong with you?
            Get over yourself already…


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            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              Dude, you stop. I'm here to learn. I asked a question. I can't get an answer? So this place is to bitch and moan and not learn anything? Really? Is it too much to get an answer.


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              • Jebus Jebus

                You are doing the same thing, over and over again and expecting a different result…


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                • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

                  No sir. I'm getting the result I expect from shills/trolls. Why don't you think about this; why should someone NOT answer a simple question??? Hmmm? If they did, it would end right there and then. Then no more of this nonsense. But again, why won't they answer a simple question? If they attack me for saying nothing of worth, then that makes them suspect, no?

                  Highlighting the fact that when someone comes in here and flame baits, calls people horrible names, etc. then runs away and attacks someone else, then runs away, refusing to answer for what they're doing is useful, no? These are shills/trolls who purposely poison all the posts to make it look like there's nothing but morons, activists, anti-nukers, fear-mongers, etc. here. socref would make 50+ posts (several posts a minute) in one thread attacking different people. And with every attack post he made I'd post right underneath him asking him to answer my question. So anyone seeing this would immediately know he wasn't interested in helping or learning and he was here to disrupt and destroy. I don't like people like that. Do you?


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    • ftlt

      Name: I'm a sucker for Doomumentaries – love them… I was talking to our Skye about his conclusions drawn from it.


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  • ftlt

    Skye: The whole thing you posted is upside down and backwards thinking.

    And is not your video 10 years old as it is discussed in them?

    Please remember, climate is not the same as weather… 10 years is not that big of a deal.

    Look at the graph in the first link posted. Which I doubt you did.

    As Solar line is relatively flat in decreasing when compared to temperature rising above. The deep downwards spike on the solar line is probably the Mt Pinatubo eruption in 1991. A huge aerosol producer.

    The fact is temps are going up. And have been for a long time.

    The radition drops are from increased industrial pollution, smoke-soots-contrails-etc, industrial agriculture disturbed soils dust and smoke clearings and increased cloud vapor from evaporation increases related to warming – ***NOT*** from our cleaning the atmosphere.

    ""So, global warming appears to be caused by our decades long global program of reducing this particulate matter thus increasing the impact of greenhouse gases""

    You've got that "wrong". Therefore, so is your basic premise. The rest follows this mistake.

    I really think, you ought to read the articles.. If you had, you would have caught this error.


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    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      ftlt: Yes I saw the friggin graph. What's your point?????????? So the solar radiation(Y) is going down and the temp(X) is going up. So what? The show was about the fact that when Y went up (from no planes), there was a NOTICEABLE sharp increase in X. All that said was there is a link between X and Y. If you anthropologically increase X it will go up REGARDLESS of Y. But if you increase Y, X will REALLY GO UP. That's it. Unless it's a significant decrease, I never said if the solar radiation decreases so with the global temps.


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    • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

      Recap: Surface radiation is the on the short end of the lever. Little increase = bit temp spike. Their concern is long term solar radiation increase will me a steeper increase in global temps far greater than anyone predicted. I simply point this out and now I'm abdicating building dirty coal PP, burning all the forests, blah blah blah.


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      • combomelt combomelt

        I agree with so much said,
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugwJhpp-Cfw – lol already! sheesh.
        back on topic

        silly diagram! how about a scale of meter or ft depth!?
        btw…

        (Appx 110 ton of uranium &/or MOX fuel rods)
        MULTIPLIED BY:
        (3 melted &/or vaporized cores &/or SFPools)
        DIVIDED BY:
        (the air we ALL breathe & the Ocean we fish)
        ______________________________________________
        EQUALS Dennis Rodman in North Korea.

        shame disgust and nausea…

        That's what I got out of the evening news since the year began

        That's huge/says a ton about "news" when i havent had tv since '02.

        SERIOUSLY THO….wtf, and truly I mean WTF, are those MSM 'news' researchers and 'reporters' on every alphabet channel friggin' smoking?
        IS there NOT one, 1, just frickin' "1", won!, one maniac among them like in the movie 'Network' who has the GUTS to say "LIVE" something, anything about fukushima? Knowing full well that then their career # is up. Anyway.

        "FIND" THE DAMN CORIUMs/corii ALREADY, Tepco!

        WE over here already know where they are, don't you?
        (I just lol for some strange reason even tho it isn't the least bit humorous)


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