Japan Gov’t Papers After 3/11: Spent Fuel Pool No. 4 at boiling point — It is empty — Heat caused fire

Published: May 16th, 2012 at 7:25 am ET
By

76 comments


Ministry retracts radiation-measurement plan that Hirano didn’t know about
Asahi AJW
May 16, 2012

[…]

The central government’s headquarters to deal with the nuclear accident raised [concerns about the state of the No. 4 fuel pool] at a meeting held from 4:40 p.m. on March 16, 2011.

A summary of minutes from the meeting has Kan saying, “The temperature of the No. 4 reactor pool is rising, and the situation is worrisome.”

At the same time, notes that were used to compile the summary have Kan saying: “The pool in the No. 4 reactor has reached the boiling point. It is empty. Heat was given off and caused a fire.”

In an interview with The Asahi Shimbun, Kan said: “The fact that the water temperature in the pool was rising means there was water in it. After having said that, I would never say there was no water in the pool.”

But the failure of government officials to compile accurate minutes of that meeting will make it difficult to determine what exactly was said.

[…]

See the report here

Published: May 16th, 2012 at 7:25 am ET
By

76 comments

Related Posts

  1. No. 4 spent fuel pool only 8 degrees below boiling point June 23, 2011
  2. Boiling Point: Reactor No. 4 spent fuel pool at 212 Fahrenheit March 24, 2011
  3. Fukushima Report: Fire created “8 square meter hole in the wall” at Unit No. 4 — Fuel pool only 15 degrees from boiling point by March 14, explosion next day March 16, 2012
  4. Japan TV: Temperature in spent fuel pool at No. 4 “much higher than the normal level” — “May be boiling” (VIDEO) April 13, 2011
  5. Nuclear Expert: I believe entire No. 4 fuel pool had drained to point where boiling occurred — Footage shows top of fuel racks were exposed to air (VIDEO) May 13, 2012

76 comments to Japan Gov’t Papers After 3/11: Spent Fuel Pool No. 4 at boiling point — It is empty — Heat caused fire

  • Chelsea_

    D*it, everything in me that could possibly go except my heart is going or gone, so would someone please get me one of those fancy little suits they wear and a f*ing ticket to Tokyo? This runaround is driving me mad.

  • I am reminded of that song…. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

  • Whoopie Whoopie

    To top this off:
    Nuclear Power Emergency Plans: Regulators Scale Back Community Readiness Efforts (VIDEO) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/16/nuclear-power-emergency-plans_n_1520414.html

  • realself

    I didn't find this extract in the linked article. Article only mentions measurement stations outside 20km zone.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    What a deception..to scale back nuclear power emergency readiness in the face of the ongoing affects of the Fukushima disaster.
    Why do this? ..perhaps the government can not afford to do what is actualy required..or perhaps it is a willful act..to benefit the corporate state..in Japan's case TEPCO/Japanese government.
    Or perhaps it is combination of both.
    Either way…
    This act has further crippled the ability of the Japanese people to get they assistance they need.
    This is one of many traitorous acts that have taken place.. orchestrated by TEPCO and the Japanese government…
    These acts will continue to take place in this situation.
    And it is absolutely DISGUSTING.

    • Whoopie Whoopie

      I dont understand it either Heart. How corrupt is our Government to allow this in light of Fukushima?! They are reducing safeguards?!?!

  • jackassrig

    There's an article over at the watchers claiming hundreds of flight attendants are lossing their hair and other rad symptoms.

  • Urban27

    Yes they HAVE to know what caused the damage to the building. This building is partly falling apart, It is the second most damaged building there. Little has been said about the cause of why it looks like it does.
    There was no fuel in the reactor, so it wasn't that.
    The most obvious is that the heat from the fuel caused the water to boil off. And when the zirconium shieldings of the fuel rods got hot and there was still water, they produced hydrogen gas, and either fire or gas-explosion or both made the damages. There is a large pool and a lot of water in it, so it took some time for the water to boil off. And all the time since then there has been standing a concrete pump, used to pour water in the pool.

  • rooks rooks

    Anyone with knowledge about WWII and American influence would come to a direct conclusion it doesn't matter where we live. The only thing to do now is to rid the world of this bomb making tech.

  • rooks rooks

    Let's just so we are at "it's times like these.". The acoustic version I recommend.

  • omniversling

    Very good pic of sfp4 in this article that I haven't seen before on ENE .

    http://blog.imva.info/world-affairs/hanging-thread

    Good article too, though default decoy to take attention away from the known facts, and to avoid the harder admission that Units 1&2 are lost and actually unfixable….melted thru, and creating radioactive steaming fog (dozens of clips on youtuber) , and Unit 3 exploded, aerosolising 400-600 lbs of plutonium into the jetstream. Reading what the author says about a gram of Pu…well…sionara…enough to kill every human being on the planet (and everything else) 4000 times over…nice! =o)

    I found this clip awhile back, and haven't seen it linked here for a while, so here, what do you think of the final frames? It took me a while to work it out, but I think it's cascades of water sloshing out over the side of the pool. You know, like a water feature in a fancy Japanese garden, only different..well, not so different any more…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYNGxWWG6K4&list=PLEB62353576416782&index=18&feature=plpp_video

    You only need to know what causes steam to see that his pool is boiling. And Arnie made a good clip on sfp4 a year ago that was posted here recently:
    http://enenews.com/nuclear-expert-believe-entire-4-fuel-pool-drained-point-boiling-occurred-footage-shows-top-fuel-racks-exposed-air-video

    I believe that the clip above of sfp4 steaming may be from the same telescopic boom that is pictured in Arnie's clip.
    (cont…

    • americancommntr

      I grew up to age 10, about 17 miles downwind (winter prevailing) of the Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant just northwest of Denver, Colorado. One of the more serious fires there by liberal estimates may have involved filters burning and releasing up to 600 pounds of plutonium. Most of my relatives who have passed on did so from cancer, some from heart disease. I had a bone disease from age 6 to 9. I think while 600 pounds is terrible anywhere around the world, 600 from the number 3 sfp exploding and burning is certainly survivable. But, I don't know about all the rest of the fuel, the uranium and other fission products, and do believe that if spf #4's contents push the survivability issue for sure. That said, how do we know it has not already burned?

      • americancommntr

        First there was only speculation of meltdowns and all kinds of official assurances this was not as bad as Chernobyl. Then the truth was released or got out that there was a triple meltdown within days if not hours.

        Now there's alot of dorking around about sfp #4. Did it burn at the same time as the meltdowns? Or not? Who knows, has anyone observed it lately?

      • StPaulScout StPaulScout

        Reactor 3 contained something short of 100 METRIC TONS of mixed MOX fuel. SFP3 contained 88 tons of spent fuel of various ages. There are 2204.6 pounds in a metric ton. So from the reactor something short of 220,460 pounds and in the spent fuel pool there was 193,952 pounds of fuel. For a grand total of around 414,412 pounds of radioactive death. Juuuuuuust a bit more than 600 pounds.

    • Sharp2197 Sharp2197

      Definitely water splashing out at end of video. Wow.

    • 4 does not look like that anymore, in my opinion.

      See it here covered with black goo.

      The area where the spent fuel pool was seems to have collapsed into goo.

      Of course, that is just my non-expert interpretation…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C03f_WEmiXY&feature=plcp

      • What-About-The-Kids

        Majia, the video you link to shows several workers there. I thought the assumption by most people, including experts like Arnie Gundersen, was that if the SFP4 were to collapse, the entire site (and Japan) would need to be evacuated.

        Are you saying you believe the pool has collapsed, but people are still there?

        Or are you just stating what you observe in the video, that it "looks" like its collapsed, but you are not sure?

        Just curious to hear your thoughts on this for clarification. Thanks!

        • Sam Sam

          perhaps tepco is photoshopping workers at Unit 4 to reassure us

          • omniversling

            that's called 'fukushopping' Sam…"It may be shopping Sam, but not as we know it.."

        • what About the Kids

          I understand your confusion.

          The only explanation that makes sense to me is this:
          [warning CONJECTURE]

          The recent picture of R4 may not be that recent, but I believe it is after a major (bad) event at R4.

          I wonder whether the industrial light that was installed last fall (wish I could remember when) was a cover for a burning #4.

          Late Nov and throughout Dec, we in the US southwest had MAJOR beta and gamma spikes in AZ and valley cities in CA, according to EPA radnet.

          [I made too much noise and they stopped reporting accurately: my opinion; or, the jet stream has been mostly north of us).

          At any rate, I think something really bad happened last fall and it may very well have been #4.

          So, it’s possible the picture was taken in Feb when the fire stopped or they contained it with goo before the current conditions evolved.

          I also think all hell is breaking out at the plant currently.
          As you know, there have been very overt smoke/steam eruptions and flashes of intense light recently.

          The plant has been bathed in an orange light and it has been shrouded in yellow fog.

          I don't think there are many people there at all now, perhaps none.

          As I've mentioned before, I think the noise about spfp4 might in fact be a coded warning to the world that it has already happened and the plant is out of control.

          • It is possible that the much of the plant has been mostly uninhabited since March 2011, with only intermittent human activities in the immediate area of the reactors.

            We know the cranes are remotely operated.

            Maybe Tepco has staged most of the routine look images of workers by the reactors.

            After watching the plant for over a year, I’ve seen captures of workers only a few times and they never look like the industrious, but relaxed workers in Tepco press releases.

            Maybe Tepco just decided to “play” the people making the noise (Japanese citizens and Gunderson) by releasing the recent images of workers by 4?

            Who knows?

            The only thing I know for certain is that all hell is breaking out there now. I can see it. I can feel it.

            [ALL Just my opinion]

            • NoNukes NoNukes

              majia,

              I seem to remember that right after the night sky lit up on the webcam around Dec. 5, the JNN cam went down, and when it came back up, there was less of reactor 4 and a big old "worklight," which scared us before we realized it was the one thing they had some control over. It could have been in Nov., though, I'll check when I get a chance.

              I agree with you about it all, that hell is breaking out, that the people have probably been staged, all insanity.

              • Sam Sam

                Hell has broken out now for 5 months plus?
                I keep coming back to Arnie's saying that Radioactive
                Noble Gas Clouds over the Northwest are worse than
                anticipated. Is he keeping something from us?
                .

                • NoNukes NoNukes

                  Sam,

                  I think that hell has been breaking out at Fukushima since 2010.

                  Majia,

                  This is the page of the webcam thread when we realized that the "light" could be shut off.

                • Bobby1

                  Well, they are worse than anticipated, since the scientific articles that have come out say the entire inventory of noble gases was released in the first 5 days of the accident. There's not supposed to be any more.

                • Sam Sam

                  the 5 month time frame was only in reference to Unit 4 from the
                  Dec. event you mentioned. We all have been lead or mislead
                  to believe SFP is still there with a catastrophic threat. Who knows.
                  It could already have happened and is still going re-critical.

                • What-About-The-Kids

                  Sam, here's a link to the report that showed Pacific Northwest Labs, which is 7,000 kilometers away from Fukushima, found 40,000 times background levels of Xenon-133 within 4 days of the initial explosion in Reactor 1:

                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21530026

                  • What-About-The-Kids

                    "Abstract

                    We report on the first measurements of short-lived gaseous fission products detected outside of Japan following the Fukushima nuclear releases, which occurred after a 9.0 magnitude earthquake and tsunami on March 11, 2011. The measurements were conducted at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL), (46°16'47″N, 119°16'53″W) located more than 7000 km from the emission point in Fukushima Japan (37°25'17″N, 141°1'57″E). First detections of (133)Xe were made starting early March 16, only four days following the earthquake. Maximum concentrations of (133)Xe were in excess of 40 Bq/m(3), which is more than ×40,000 the average concentration of this isotope is this part of the United States.

                    2011. Published by Elsevier Ltd."

            • What-About-The-Kids

              Thanks, Majia. I do remember those spikes in late Nov. and Dec. Unfortunately, that was the time I was traveling by air quite a few times (to S. CA and the East Coast.) I could feel the radiation effects, my tongue tingling quite a bit, exhaustion, etc.

              Then, the outbreak of the virulent respiratory illnesses and pneumonia followed in family and friends in late Winter/early Spring, and the stomach problems you've mentioned.

              The huge worklight suddenly appearing is definitely suspect. Every time I'd see it in videos subsequently, I could see a tall stream of emissions spiking up above it, which obviously emanated from behind/below where the light had been placed.

              So I think your suspicions about an out of control fire or recriticalities in the SFP4 there may be correct. I don't believe the entire thing needs to necessarily "collapse" to do harm via intermittent or ongoing fires. It just may spread out that harm over a longer period of time.

              I hope our conjecture is completely wrong and we are just overly concerned after having watched this entire Kafkaesque nightmare unfold for the past 14 months.

              It sure would be nice to get some concrete answers, one way or another.

              • Do you mind if I re-post your response?

                I am going to post my thoughts, framed as such, on my blog.

                I think the recent propaganda shows people who know are scared.

                I'm talking about the plant article in environmental health perspectives on gamma exposure and mice.
                http://majiasblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/plant-in-environmental-health.html

                The mice were killed right away (as soon as the 6 weeks of radiation exposure was halted) and only exposed to gamma but the EHP article suggested its findings applied to humans' exposure to nuclear plant fallout.

                Talk about problems with ecological validity. I could not believe the editor/reviewers let those sentences into the article.

                THEN the article gets a new headline at Science Daily:

                "New Look at Prolonged Radiation Exposure: At Low Dose-Rate, Radiation Poses Little Risk to DNA, Study Suggests"

                The Science Daily headline is a deliberate misinterpretation of the study's generalizability and ecological validity.

                NOT AN ACCIDENT I say. [Somehow the editors were asked to allow this crap in and they did].

                'Tis designed to cover something up.

                But I think it won't work.

                • What-About-The-Kids

                  Of course! By all means, please feel free to repost any of my replies.

                  It is becoming easier to pick out the propagandist publications as time goes by. I remember early on just after 3/11, searching for some substantive reporting online. After I posted a few times on UC Berkeley's Nuclear Forum site, I noticed several strange things happening while online on my computer:

                  1. When trying to watch some of Arnie's very first videos, it kept shutting down in my browser.

                  2. Several sites, including Fairewinds.com, enenews.com and Fukushima-Diary.com would suddenly become "unavailable" as were many YouTube videos.

                  3. A search on Google for updated information, or for information on nuclear power or radiation's harmful effects would invariably pull up links to Scientific American articles that were obviously biased, always downplaying harmful effects of radiation exposure.

                  Coincidences? Have to say, IMHO, not by any stretch of the imagination.

                  Censorship: apparently our hard-earned tax dollars hard at work.

    • fireguyjeff fireguyjeff

      Some math….

      Assuming 500 pounds of Pu in SFP4 got aerosolized
      Using 454 grams per pound (never mind the mixed metric vs English system units) comes out to 227 thousand grams.

      With the idea that a microgram (Dr Helen Caldicott) of ingested Pu will cause cancer (death implied) that is one million deaths per gram.

      So SFP4 aerosolized could take out 227 billion people, or about 32 times the Earth's present population (7 billion as of March 2012).

      32 is a bit off from thousands of times.

      Yet my point here is all too similar to concerning ones self with how big the truck was that hit you and killed you.

      A pound of Pu would have been a big problem.
      An ounce of Pu would have been a big problem.
      A gram of Pu would have been a big problem.

      Maybe all of this is simply a deeply ironic case of natural selection…..

      The species that figures out the nuclear effect and does not implement it gets to continue on, and the one that implements nuclear self exterminates.

      • Tumrgrwer Tumrgrwer

        Very good points, excellent. "Yet my point here is all too similar to concerning ones self with how big the truck was that hit you and killed you." It was a Mac Truck, 18 wheeler that hit me in the back on a motorcycle! That reference hits home, real close. Thanx for the wake-up call. fireguyjeff

      • Bobby1

        You could look at it as a selection technique built into the universe itself. Any species good and wise enough to avoid the nuclear effect goes on to bigger and better things, and any species that succumbs to the nuclear effect becomes extinct. A protection mechanism. Why would advanced beings want a species stupid enough to embrace nuclear to be rocketing around the galaxy?

      • omniversling

        fair point fireguy…thanks for doing the calculations…I assume that you mean that all this killing happened kinda quickly…say between the values of 'overnight' to 'one year'. Of course it may be longer, and Dr Caldicott's provision was 'if evenly spread between all the people on the planet'. Well of course that's not as likely short-term, as the russian roulette of wind and tide. However, Plutonium239 has a half-life of around 24,100 years, Pu244 80 million years, Pu238 88 years.

        You get the picture here that whatever happens to the corpses of the victims, unless they're buried in lead coffins, this stuff will just keep on giving and giving and giving..with the same particle (lots and lots and lots of them) doing just as good a job as it did in the previous 88, 24,100 or 80 million years….take your pick.

        So actually, if there were enough people brave enough into the indefinite future to risk having hideously deformed children, I think that the theoretical potential exists to have more deaths from the aerosolised Pu from U3 and U4, is infinite, and only governed by the rate of procreation…presuming that can continue.
        And this is only discussing FukUpShima. The US has around 71,00 tonnes of spent fuel in uncontained pools. 71,000,000kg of fuel Then there are all the other nukepuke countries who have nowhere to dispose of their spent fuel either..Can you do the math for me? Any ideas?

  • omniversling

    Also, see the really good photo albums on Troy's FB page..lot's of 'em:
    https://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=619858244

    Some of you will only be able to see his pics if you friend him. Recommended, he has great posts and info, and the best collection of albums and pics that I've found so far…<https://www.facebook.com/duke.thehazard&gt;

    If you have the patience to go through them picture by picture there are some great comments, discussion threads, and links to other great clips..

    love to you all…=o)

  • Hogweed

    You have the wrong link in the article. The text you quote comes from http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201205160096 – "Diet panel to tackle question: Did TEPCO want to desert Fukushima plant?" – Not the story you link to at the top.

  • Bubbha

    I watched the end of the world
    On the Internet.
    I watched the decline of man in retrospect.
    I listened and read,
    lies and played scifi movies in my head,
    Watched streamed video
    Of the melting presidio.
    My heart did leap,
    As people like sheep
    We're led to bed.
    With that said,
    I am at peace
    With everyone
    'Cause the Internet
    Is just another rerun.

    • Very good Bubbha…

      I relate…

    • What-About-The-Kids

      Love your poem, Bubbha. Keep 'em coming! 🙂

      I wrote one called "Nuclear Rain" the other day and shared it on a different thread. ("Possible Fukushima Anomalies" section, I believe.) 🙂

  • weeman

    They should all be sent to the world court in the Hague and be charged with crimes against humanity

    Why not they knowingly exposed millions to large doses do radiation, at least one million dead from cancer in Japan in next 10 years, lie, decive, twist facts, keep information from people,

    Reminds me of Germany during second world war only they had gas fired ovens , Japan has nuclear ovens

  • goathead goathead

    I thought the Guardian had slid off the bullshit scales and then I find this! http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/11/nuclear-apologists-radiation
    Stick that in your pipe Monbiot!!!!!

  • CaptD CaptD

    Sure, no notes were taken…

    How about Recordings?

    What a Nuclear Waste!

    Ha Ha Ha

  • gottagetoffthegrid

    In an interview with The Asahi Shimbun, Kan said: “The fact that the water temperature in the pool was rising means there was water in it. After having said that, I would never say there was no water in the pool.”
    ====

    when you are dealing with irradiated fuelrods in a 2-story deep pool, both are completely compatible. once you boil half of the water down, you can have the remainder of the water in the pool boiling while the top half of the exposed rods are burning/melting/producing hydrogen.

    I see no contridiction in his statements.

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      According to Arne if the rods start to burn, covering them with water WILL NOT put them out. They will burn until they are gone.

      • StPaulScout StPaulScout

        So if they did in fact START to burn, those that were burning are gone as there was no way to extinguish them.

        • What-About-The-Kids

          Gottagetoffthegrid and StPaul Scott, I would have to (unfortunately) agree with you both.

          Last March, there were reports of a fire in the Reactor 4 building, (but no confirmation whether it was from the SFP4), which caused such a high spike in radiation levels that workers had to (temporarily) evacuate the plant:

          http://www.salon.com/2011/03/16/japan_nuclear_plant_evacuation/

          These high spikes surely must have been from the pool, since the reactor was empty and being prepared to load, yes? Or as others have speculated, there was another "holding area" pool which contained the ready-to-be-loaded new fuel which could have also been burning…

          Just today, Iori on Fukushima-Diary posted some of TEPCO's readings from the SFP4 from April, 2011, which showed a spike in I-131, which would indicate criticality/recriticality in that pool in April:

          http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/05/iodine-131-was-measured-from-sfp4/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FukushimaDiary+%28Fukushima+Diary%29

          "Iodine 131 was measured from SFP4"
          "Posted by Mochizuki on May 16th, 2012"

          Last year, 4/12/2011, 2.2E+8 Bq/m3 of Iodine 131 was measured from the water of SFP4 to suggest the spent fuel had recriticality after 311.

          Cesium 134/137 were also measured, but Tepco states it’s about 1/100 of the amount in reactor1~3, they are likely to be blown from them.

          However, Tepco did not show the comparison of the amount of Iodine 131 measured in SFP4 and…

  • pepperland pepperland

    I have followed William who lives in southern Japan. This video is a follow up of soil samples from
    prefects in japan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELmFVZ1_8K0&feature=uploademail

  • norbu norbu

    so even with water on them they continue to burn for long time? what about this friday? staying indoors.

  • Bubbha

    Where I'm confused and someone can explain. Arnie says if sfp4 collapsed or caught fire, he would head south. Well this tells us it did catch fire. Or can it get worse?

    • GeoHarvey

      Early on, reports said there was a fire in SFP4, but the fire was put out. It broke out again the next day, but was put out quickly again, according to the news. I asked a fire chief of a town with similar reactors. The thing used to put the fire out is waterless foam.
      If the fuel rods are exposed, they can catch fire. If they catch fire they can strip oxygen from water molecules, burning in an otherwise oxygen free environment, and freeing hydrogen to collect in a building above them and explode, or just burn, if there is no roof, or, hopefully, just to blow away.
      The fact that the cladding has caught fire does not mean the fire cannot be put out, though this can be the case. Nor does it mean a fire will necessarily burn under water, as fire sometimes can. The water is hard to heat up, and harder to boil, so given enough of it, or a strong current, it might (I am guessing here) put it out, just like blowing on a match puts it out, even though you are increasing the amount of available oxygen.

    • GeoHarvey

      As to whether it can get worse, the answer is certainly yes it can. On the other hand, this is not necessarily going to happen. It might be that this will be taken care of before new disasters make it worse. It also might be that heroic efforts will save the day even if there are new disasters.
      I think in a worst case scenario, northern Japan might have to be evacuated. Arnie Gundersen might have a place to go in the Southern Hemisphere, but I do not, and most people are in the same boat I am. Certainly, there is nowhere near enough space for everyone.
      It reminds me to appreciate people. In the final analysis, the only thing we have is each other. Enjoy life, and hope for the best.

      • What-About-The-Kids

        Well said, GeoHarvey. It is indeed a good reminder to appreciate the people in our lives and live life to the fullest, appreciating what we have, while we have it.

        Thank you! 🙂

  • norbu norbu

    yes, I dont understand. did it burn or not? Is he in south america doing interviews?

  • Busby was in Geneva a couple of days ago:
    (videos all in Japanese and Russian)

    クリス·バスビー May 12th 2012
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDIIJXxXcQE

    ユーリー・バンダジェフスキー May 12th 2012 part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38pjNwiHtS0&feature=relmfu

  • Sam Sam

    still too many unknowns;
    We are still alive though irradiated. no one telling us how much worse it is!
    If SFP 4 burned in the beginning and the hydrogen release caused the explosion
    and there has been recently flashes and smoke coming from there then there is
    ongoing criticality from what? or is there more leakage of water and remaining
    rods are burning or the molten mass smoldering. If that is the case then how come
    no hydrogen explosion? or has the contents of SFP 4 become a molten mass out of
    containment and so far is not as deadly as the experts are saying. UC Berkeley lab is
    down playing the catastrophic fears we all are hearing about.
    There is a lot of fear surrounding this issue. Rightfully so. That is how come we all
    so desperately want some information as to what is really going on in there.
    If Tepco cannot get close at all to the building then it is truly too hot and something
    has already happened and yet just how bad is it?

    • GeoHarvey

      I have to agree, Sam, there are too many unknowns.
      There would be fewer unknowns if we had governments and industries that were honest with us. Alas, at this point, they will probably not be able to regain the confidence of any rational, informed person. (I am figuring well informed nuclear industry supporters must be irrational. But maybe they are just lacking a full inventory of normal human emotions, such as compassion and remorse.)

      • What-About-The-Kids

        Yes, as Dr. Helen Caldicott calls it, the "reptilian brain."

        Wish we could do something to hyper-evolve their brains ASAP! Otherwise, we need to figure out how we can reach them at their level and help them finally "get it."

  • mikael

    I may be a bitt of the scale on this, regardiing the exact temp wher a selfsustaiable fusion will ocure and the temp it need to continue to be Boiling.
    1500 DgC
    2500 DgC
    will we see it from a distance, probably not, and we have no idea of the truthfull nes of anything regarding TEPCO and The Gov of Japan, we are feed fu.. bullshitt.
    Cherrypicked driwerl wrapped in more cherrypicked driwel.

    I have have first hand expirience with metals, and the the notion of Burning Under water is not a silly joke or a missqoute, ist a fact.
    Magnesium burns(ounce ignited, every rocketetustiatist knows this, from days after the new years celabrations) even better under water than above it, in open air, because the water is Oxygen and Hydrogen, it gives a more stready feading of Oxygen.
    Capice.

    peace