Published: September 21st, 2011 at 6:29 pm ET
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Column of the Day: What’s happening in Fukushima?, Fukushima Diary, September 20, 2011:
Koide
[Hiroaki Koide, assistant professor at Kyoto University's Research Reactor Institute] estimates nuclear fuel rods may be now 12m deep under ground at reactor 1-3. Only God knows about reactor 4.
Melted rods can not be taken out for 1~2 years. One piece of the fuel rods is estimated to sink into the ground at a rate of 17m per year. Therefore, 2 years from now,they may be 34m underground.
20,110,919 Growing ki ji ne ta ャ ー ナ Hikaru Kyoto University nuclear reactor 実 験 the assistant Koide Hiroaki, tacc77, September 19, 2011:
Google Translation
http://hiroakikoide.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/tanemaki-sep19/さ よ う な ら original Departure assembly” 6 million people to participate in play は し い Koide Hiroaki Cool down the reactor within a year you can really do.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO9UnYBuT00
Published: September 21st, 2011 at 6:29 pm ET
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sending...
The audio clip is in Japanese – sounds great (beautiful language to listen to) but without a translation one can only enjoy it for the aesthetic appeal. I probably missed something obvious like a ‘translate’ button?
Seems a shame that the fuel doesn’t get a bit hotter and sink faster… it might be a good thing if it melted it’s way rapidly down to the underlying magma.
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Unfortunately, there is no translation for the audio. Mochizuki at FD summarized some of Koide’s points.
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Magma would cool the corium down… Sigh, no end in site
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I doubt it is 36ft deep…
Try 13 feet at most…
Too much rock / mass below the clay layers…
once the fuel makes its way through the bedrock my guess is miniature nuclear explosions underground… They may have already had some…
Hope that a large amount of fuel does not coagulate underground…
Amount of fuel = size of blast right?
500 kilos per bomb via weapons grade / enriched fuel…
whats that? like 400-600 potential bombs per reactor? at 33% weapons grade material?
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Taco, I posted this diagram yesterday:
Disaster at Fukushima Daiichi: How Did It Happen?
http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_power/nuclear_power_and_global_warming/
can download a pdf:
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/nuclear_power/Fukushima-Tragedy.pdf
In the pdf, on page 12, a diagram of Unit 1,2,3 Operating Reactors, shows the reactor on granite and the turbine building on artificial rock.
In the pdf, on page 27, the diagram (Emergency Core Cooling Systems) shows a huge Pressure Suppression Pool deep below the reactor.
Please look at the diagram on page 27. The melted fuel probably hit 3 meters months ago. And then it probably when through the artificial rock (see p. 12) months ago, and through the vertical shafts. Please see my posts to Arizonan last night.
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http://enenews.com/japan-lawmaker-plutonium-deep-basement-reactor-3-anyones-guess#comments
anne
September 20, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Arizonan, also posted by piehole:
• piehole March 29th, 2011 at 11:38 am «
In the above citation, Asahi Shimbun News referred to: “a vertical duct that is 15.9-meter deep”; I’m assuming AFP is referring to the same thing in the following March 28th story, which describes: “a 15.9-metre access shaft”.
With respect to the height/depth of the actual TUNNEL, AFP says: “Each reactor turbine building is connected to a maintenance tunnel large enough for workers to walk through”. Yikes.
Here’s the AFP story: Highly radioactive water spreads at Japan plant. [http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20110328-270588.html]
There is estimated to be several thousand cubic metres of water inside the tunnel.
“We need to check if the water could flow directly into the sea,” he said.
Each reactor turbine building is connected to a maintenance tunnel large enough for workers to walk through.
In the case of the reactor two tunnel, the water has risen to within one metre (three feet) of the top of a 15.9-metre access shaft which is located 55 metres from the sea, raising concerns it could overflow.
I haven’t had a chance to read the rest of the article closely. I hope it helps flesh out the picture.
http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2011/03/28/japan-nuclear-watch-329-defense-in-depth-now-at-sandbags/
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anne
September 20, 2011 at 9:34 pm • Reply
Arizonan, here is a post which gives the depth of
15.9 meters of a vertical duct/shaft:
• piehole March 29th, 2011 at 12:13 pm «
It appears (see citations in my comments below), per Reactor #2: there is a VERTICAL DUCT/SHAFT that is 15.9-meter deep/high. The TUNNEL height is specified as high enough for workers to walk through. It’s length is 76 meters.
TEPCO estimates there is: “several thousand cubic metres of water inside the tunnel”. So, it appears the tunnel is completely filled with water; and the 15.9 meter vertical duct has water up to “1 meter from the top”.
Maybe these distinctions are meaningless. I’m just stating it for clarity’s sake.
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http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2011/03/28/japan-nuclear-watch-329-defense-in-depth-now-at-sandbags/
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anne
September 20, 2011 at 9:36 pm • Reply
Translation is by Google translator:
東電によると、２７日午後、タービン建屋から外につながるたて坑と地下トンネルに水がたまっているのを見つけた。２号機の場合、たて坑は深さ１５．９メー トル、トンネルは長さ７６メートル。たて坑の出口から１メートルのところまで汚染水が上がってきており、水の表面の放射線量は毎時１千ミリシーベルトを超 えた。
According to TEPCO, yesterday afternoon and found that the accumulation of fresh water hole and underground tunnel leading out of the turbine building. For Unit 2, 15.9 meters deep vertical hole, the tunnel is 76 meters long. Contaminated water has come up as far as one meter from the outlet of the vertical hole, the radiation dose on the surface of the water exceeds a 1,000 mSv per hour.
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@Anne
That article states that the water has accumulated 1 meter in tunneling located in the turbine building…
I doubt it has anything to do with the reactor / fuel situations…
But I did find the pdf interesting…
I just feel that tepco had successfully split the corium into smaller blobs, while boron supported less heat decay / (neutron moderation).
which impacted the fuels melting: rate of depth per meter… (in addition to the sporadic cooling that the fuel receives)…
I just feel its resting on the bedrock (granite layer). soaking up the saturation from the soil above… (moving 5-6 inches lower a day…)
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taco, did you look at the diagram on page 27 which shows the huge pressure suppression pool deep in the granite and perhaps also extending into the artificial rock below the basement of the reactor and perhaps extending below the turbine which is on artificial rock?
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TYPO; 12 meters.
I means to say the melted fuel probably was 12 meters below the basement months ago…..The Pressure Suppression Pool is no doubt deeper than that and the melted fuel would have reached that through connecting pipes. The explosion might have been caused by the fuel hitting the water in the Pressures Suppression Pool.
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SORRY: Pressure
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Seawater cooling is normally only used for secondary cooling, not to cool the reactor directly. Large pumps were used for this:
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi090911/daiichi090911.htm
Correct, corrosion and contamination prohibit this. They started using seawater directly as a consequence of 3/11. This is not good, as it transported large amounts of salt into the reactor. They acted in total dispair.
That shaft is used to bring in/out rods, yes. But they were carried by truck.
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AFAIK they do not desalinate the water, no. The big pumps you can see on the photos are shown in no. 16 onthis drawing:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Boiling_water_reactor_german.svg
schönen gruß,
t1
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Page 27 shows only a schematic drawing of the pool. It symbolizes the torus you find on the other pages.
Look here: http://josephmiller.typepad.com/.a/6a014e86f76033970d014e60310d69970c-800wi
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Thank you for pointing that out. I’m sorry I misinterpreted that diagram.
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On your link the diagram show pumping seawater in to cool the reactor. Do you know if that was the practice before 3/11? Wouldn’t that after 40 years caused massive corrosion?
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Also, do you know if that square shaft or tunnel was used to load fuel rods transported by the ocean?
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tomb 1,
Thanks very much for the photos. Are the seawater facilities for desalination?
http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi090911/daiichi090911.htm
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I don’t believe the diagram showing granite is at all accurate for reasons specified by me in the other thread, not wanting to repeat it all here but just to say that it is largely possible that the diagram is part of a rapidly hacked up document for a reassurance presentation.
M
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anne
September 20, 2011 at 9:38 pm • Reply
たて坑の出口から海までは約５５メートル。海にもれた跡は確認できないという。トンネルには継ぎ目があり、防水加工は完全ではないという。２号 機では、 タービン建屋内でも、高い濃度の汚染水が見つかっている。東電は建屋の汚染水とトンネルの間で水が行き来しているとみている。
Vertical hole to exit from the sea is 55 meters. Leaked into the sea that mark can not be confirmed. The tunnel has a seam, is completely waterproof, he said. In Unit 2, even in the turbine building, water pollution have been found in high concentrations. TEPCO has been found that water back and forth between the tunnels with water pollution of the building. [Google translation]
http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/2011/03/28/japan-nuclear-watch-329-defense-in-depth-now-at-sandbags/
anne
September 20, 2011 at 9:41 pm
This information is posted by:
• piehole March 29th, 2011 at 10:25 am «
I just came across the following at a blog called The Automatic Earth:
From Asahi Shinbun update (in Japanese, new information only; 7:26PM JST 2/28/2011):
[must be 3/28]
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the WATER-TABLE…
if it all explodes we can duck and cover.
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…hesitation … is an hereditary trait of your species, and suddenly faced by the unknown, or imminent danger, a human will invariably experience a split second of indecision. He hesitates.
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Hi Spoghh (Vulcan pronunciation, trying not to sound ignorant) I’m a big fan. Welcome to ENENEWS. Just a quiet word of caution, there’s a couple of humans here you might want to avoid doing a mind-meld on, it would fry your neural network.
True words you speak, Spoghh, about hesitation. We have a saying here on Earth – ‘He who hesitates is lost’. Although sometimes doing nothing is preferable to doing the wrong thing, no? Unfortunately TEPCO not only hesitated, they then went and did the wrong thing. Oh well…
Anyway, nice talking to you Spoghh, it isn’t every day we get visitors from other worlds (unless you count CIAspy, who is actually just a little bit loony tunes). Live long and prosper!
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more reasons to have our resource available to fight this tragedy. lets go for clean energy tell the president http://signon.org/sign/increase-government-support.fb1?source=c.fb&r_by=548645
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