Japan Press Conference: People who work for Tepco are not human; They have neither tears nor blood — Gov’t are liars (VIDEO)

Published: September 12th, 2012 at 1:59 pm ET


“TEPCO and the Fukushima Forbidden Zone”, by Matsumura & Onda – Part II
Foreign Correspondents Club of Japan
Feb 28, 2012

At 1:45 in

Naoto Matsumura, dairy farmer from Tomioka inside evacuation zone: The government and Tepco are liars.


My desire my wish is that Tepco should disappear from the face of the earth.

The people who work for Tepco have neither tears nor blood, in other words they are not human.

Published: September 12th, 2012 at 1:59 pm ET


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  2. Strange Japanese press conference calls for jailing of Tepco officials, guilty of criminal error — Says international media damaged ‘Japan Brand’ (1hr VIDEO) March 11, 2012
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75 comments to Japan Press Conference: People who work for Tepco are not human; They have neither tears nor blood — Gov’t are liars (VIDEO)

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    "The people who work for Tepco have neither tears nor blood, in other words they are not human."

    My very thoughts this morning..exactly.
    Don't they live…have they no emotion ..no sentiment..no sensitivity..?
    Have they no sense of guilt..remorse ..responsibility?
    That is it? Psychopathic behavior..mixed with cowardice?
    Where are their sense of being..where are their souls?
    Dead..dead..THEY are the so-called "zombies"..going about sucking the life out of all around them.
    Ghouls..bloody ghouls.

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    PS…Ha..full grammatical error.
    It's almost too creepy to try to explain..to people that are not aware..
    How does one explain this type of behavior…without breaking into an entire string of adjectives and expletives?
    These behaviors are outside the realm of healthy thinking.
    The healthy mind has difficulty understanding..this type of thought processing and behavior..and often refuses to comprehend.
    Yet..we must.
    We must deal with it.
    Truth must be told…no matter how ugly and full of insanity the face of the opposition is.

    • andagi andagi

      Dear Heart of the Rose,
      Thank you for posting. Tonight I feel the opposite, am agast and at a loss for words. It seems I must believe the courage and rage of Mr. Matsumura. How is it that Tepco and Japan are roguely determining the fate of the Northern Hemisphere/Biosphere? How is it that they are treated with kid gloves? Idunnano?!
      I spent my whole day trying to save lives. I'm perturbed with this h=rs= s**t right now. Persons need to keep posting, reading and sharing ENENews. Taking action is what we can, and need to persist in doing.
      ENENews makes a difference Worldwide, 24/7. 🙂 Keep supporting change in Japan!

  • PavewayIII PavewayIII

    What is with the Japanese Foreign Correspondents' Club?

    They get the Fukushima Project in to speak about how 'technical management' at TEPCO is responsible for the disaster (rather than TEPCO executive management). And how the foreign press has hurt the 'Japan Brand'.

    Now the farmer quoted here (rightfully so) wishes TEPCO would just go away.

    Why doesn't the Foreign Correspondents' Club focus on the ones truly responsible for this disaster?

    The corporate LEADERS of TEPCO should be in a prison in the Hauge awaiting their crimes against humanity and genocide trials. The people working at the plant are apparently the only ones that tried to save Japanese lives. Nobody at the plant determines budget or policy, and whistle-blowers are punished or ignored.

    Is the Foreign Correspondent's Club going to be happy when TEPCO finally identifies a few middle-management patsies to take all the blame? That's part of the problem, it fixes NOTHING.

  • m a x l i

    "Imagine – if you can – not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

    And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

    Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

    You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.


    You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.

    How will you live your life?"


    • moonshellblue moonshellblue

      Perhaps they all suffer from some form of Aspergers or Autism. Unreal

      • Anthony Anthony

        I have always believed autism syndromes are suspiciously prevalent after the bomb test years. I think the kids affected in Chernobyl I have seen online have autism-like behaviors as well as their documented medical issues relating to suspected radiation contamination. Perhaps there was an health outcome during the bombings in Japan that we haven't accounted for.


      • m a x l i

        You all want to discuss autism, fine!

        But I don't know why you had to offer your thought, moonshellblue, as a reply to my text sample+link. Had you read only a few lines of the link, you would have had the answer and a proper name for it, and it is neither autism nor aspergers. Read my link, and you find a perfect description of all the personality traits you will recognise next time you see someone defending nuclear power. It might open your eyes.

        By the way…I'm wondering if one "suffers" form aspergers or autism. Does one suffer from blond hair or black skin?

      • NoNukes NoNukes

        Can we stop throwing people with autism and aspergers under the bus on Enenews? People with autism and aspergers are NOT the problem, they are victims of this industry.

        This is disruptive.

        • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

          I read all the comments as autism can be caused by radiation. Lower IQ can be caused by radiation. Alzheimer's can be caused by radiation. Other birth defects and mutations are caused by radiation both from nuclear testing, energy, and weapons use and manufacture. These are also caused by medical use of radiation including x-rays.

          Unfortunately, we will continue to be ruled by people who are victims of radiation, but who are also no longer able to see their defects as caused by radiation and will not discontinue nuclear energy.

          I also think that many are hypnotized by the flicker rate of TV and movies and are not able to see that the nuclear industry is using mind control to remain in power.

          • NoNukes NoNukes

            This is the definition of Antisocial personality disorder:

            "Antisocial personality disorder is a mental health condition in which a person has a long-term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights of others. This behavior is often criminal.


            A person with antisocial personality disorder may:

            Be able to act witty and charming

            Be good at flattery and manipulating other people's emotions

            Break the law repeatedly

            Disregard the safety of self and others

            Have problems with substance abuse

            Lie, steal, and fight often

            Not show guilt or remorse

            Often be angry or arrogant


            • NoNukes NoNukes

              This is the definition of Autism:

              "Autism is a developmental disorder that appears in the first 3 years of life, and affects the brain's normal development of social and communication skills.

              People with autism may:

              Be overly sensitive in sight, hearing, touch, smell, or taste (for example, they may refuse to wear "itchy" clothes and become distressed if they are forced to wear the clothes)

              Have unusual distress when routines are changed

              Perform repeated body movements

              Show unusual attachments to objects

              The symptoms may vary from moderate to severe.

              Communication problems may include:

              Cannot start or maintain a social conversation

              Communicates with gestures instead of words

              Develops language slowly or not at all

              Does not adjust gaze to look at objects that others are looking at

              Does not refer to self correctly (for example, says "you want water" when the child means "I want water")

              Does not point to direct others' attention to objects (occurs in the first 14 months of life)

              Repeats words or memorized passages, such as commercials


              Which sounds more like the people in the nuclear industry?

              People on Enenews routinely substitute "Autism" when they really are referring to "Antisocial personality disorder." They are two different things.

              • NoNukes NoNukes

                Studies show that 47%-73% of prisoners have antisocial personality disorder.


                People with antisocial personality disorder may tend to lie or steal and often fail …. personality disorder may be diagnosed in as many as 75% of prison inmates.


                People with autism generally care about not hurting others and can't manipulate, people with antisocial personality disorder enjoy hurting others and are excellent manipulators.

                • m a x l i

                  @NoNukes, thank you for sorting out the difference between autism and "antisocial personality disorder" and reminding us that the latter one is relevant for the discussion here – especially when the headline is "People who work for Tepco are not human; They have neither tears nor blood — Gov’t are liars".

                  Is "antisocial personality disorder" the same as "psychopathy"? In your last link we find: "Some people believe that psychopathic personality (psychopathy) is the same disorder. Others believe that psychopathic personality is a similar but more severe disorder."

                  The experts have different opinions about that – that's why for practical purposes we enenewsers should consider "psychopathy", "sociopathy" and "antisocial personality disorder" synonyms.

                  I think understanding and recognising psychopathy is an important key for transforming society into a better future.

                  • NoNukes NoNukes

                    m a x l i,

                    I agree with you, and I bet that antisocial personality disorder/psychopathy is caused by radiation's impact on the brain, so this will get worse.

                    I blame the media's representation of Bill Gates for the confusion. People think that he is evil, and has Asperger's, but that is a legend, he hasn't been diagnosed with Asperger's. He probably does have antisocial personality disorder.

                    The areas of the brain affected in antisocial personality disorder and autism are very different:

                    "Indeed, the authors write: “Notably, the [brain] regions associated with autistic and antisocial traits were largely anatomically distinct,” calling them “strikingly different.”

                    Children with high autistic traits showed thinning (less brain tissue) mainly in the superior temporal and temperoparietal cortex, a region previously found to be smaller in autistic people. The area is associated with the processing of socially relevant information, particularly the ability to understand the minds of others and take different perspectives.

                    In the children with high levels of antisocial traits, however, thinning was seen in the anterior prefrontal cortex, a region previously shown to be diminished in adult psychopaths. The area is associated with moral reasoning, which is obviously impaired in those who enjoy manipulating and harming others."


            • JustmeAlso

              Thats me!

  • Michele

    It is most frightening to find that the people who rise to the important positions in government and the large international corporations are being noticed for their sociopathic personalities on a global scale. The decision to act in immoral ways, fully knowing the outcome will be illness and death; while showing unconcern for the victims, defines a warped individual. A person who will tell parents, "not to be chicken" when the plan is to feed school lunches with food that is radioactive must have an unhealthy mind. Also, the selling of contaminated food to unsuspecting citizens or to people in other nations definitely shows that greed is at play. People are disposable to these leaders, the only thing that appears to be of value to them is finding methods in order protect their own accountability.

    • aSpadeisaSpade aSpadeisaSpade

      Michele, I have corrected your sentence appropriately:

      A person who will tell parents, "not to be chicken" when the plan is to feed school lunches with food that is radioactive is evil and an agent of the devil!

    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      Its important to understand why healthy people and good organizations are naturally so vulnerable to the influence of psychopaths, Michele.

      Hardly anybody wants to admit they have been manipulated by evil people – they're ashamed. I applaud people's efforts to 'wake up' others on whatever issue, but what then? "You've also been lied to by these people and conned by another group and tricked by someone else?"

      Healthy people need to be taught that they, by being healthy, are always vulnerable to psychopaths and their manipulations. Immune systems of humans are not static. They look for patterns to identify new pathogens. The 'immune system' of society needs to recognize the patterns of psychopathic leaders and organizations. They're never going away – they are part of us. We just don't want them driving the bus.

      • andagi andagi

        Dear PavewayIII,
        Per Dr. Carl Sagan: “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

        • PavewayIII PavewayIII

          "…Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back…"

          Exactly. I'm much more interested in breaking the cycle by putting people on guard to prevent the next one or at least recognize them faster. The existing ones either self-implode or the world just moves past them.
          Isrial wants to bomb Iran. They want to use Syrian airspace to do get there without needing iran's permission, which they can't get right now. The Syrians on both side seem to be equally willing to kill mem, women and children in order to save them. That's just sick.

          Whoever eventually takes over syria WILL be amenable to Israeli overlflights (or wont appose them).

          Meanwhile, russian snd chinese ships lurk in the backround, unwilling to assow any asset of syria fall into hostile hands.

      • m a x l i

        @PavewayIII, you said: "The 'immune system' of society needs to recognize the patterns of psychopathic leaders and organisations."

        Interesting analogy! To use that analogy, society needs a vaccination. What would that be?

    • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

      According to some conspiratorial theorists, must people are not just disposable to the elite, but taking away from the elite the resources they want for themselves. Bill Gates and Ted Turner are two known for this attitude and have both expressed these views.

  • jackassrig

    I saw an interview with the Iceman who is in the pen. If you want to see a psychopath in action, watch the show when it comes around. He could kill like normal people dress in the morning. The interview is spooky. Looking into his eyes is seeing pure evil.

  • Sickputer

    Pretty cool article here about the hazardous occupation of nuclear power plant welding (there's that taboo word again):

    Underwater Welding In Nuclear Power Plants
    Diving welders keep cool heads in hot water

    "On top of the everyday dangers of welding, imagine welding in a deep, narrow pool of water, where your accustomed realities of gravity, light, and sound are all distorted. Imagine the water is hotter than your body temperature, subjecting your brain to heat stress while you concentrate on performing a precision weld. Now add time pressure: every second costs the utility company thousands of dollars. Every second brings you closer to heat exhaustion. Every second exposes you to accumulated alpha, beta, gamma, and neutron radiation.

    It takes a special breed of welder to plunge deep into a nuclear reactor pool filled with 100°F-plus, radioactive water to make a weld repair – while the reactor is running at peak power. But the economic reality of the nuclear power industry, where an hour or so of outage can cost half a million dollars, demands drastic measures. It's all part of the job of the underwater nuclear welder to make this extraordinary situation as routine and professional as possible."


    • Sickputer

      Apologies.. That was supposed to go in another thread, but my attention span must be radiation-altered today (only half kidding).

      • PavewayIII PavewayIII

        They must have to pay these guys a fortune. Time to think about a career change. I'm just letting these bastards irradiate me for FREE right now.

    • richard richard

      thanks for that link SP: i'm left wondering why the diver would actually play this danerous game. the divers should be saying "no.. shutdown the system before i go anywhere near that thing".

      maybe if the diver did that, then we'd slowly, bit by bit, hit the nukers in the hip pocket and bring them undone.

      but of course, the diver is chasing the big bucks, so along we go.

      here in Oz, the OHS officers have told all employees we are responsible for each other. if we see a potential danger, then do nothing about it, then someone gets hurt, we, the employees are being held responsible, not the employer.

      if the same principles were applied to the nuke industry, i would have to say to the diver that he couldn't enter the water, as I would be responsible for his safety. I would be sued for millions if he became contaminated.

      the whole freekin world is just so freekin wrong!

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Some people claim that there are reptiles among us. Maybe they aren't off on the fringe after all.

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    Who is chairing the human rights committee on the UN?

    You may have to extend the label of psychopath to those in the UN as well.

    • norbu norbu

      you are right on it Anne. Bingo on both post's.

    • PavewayIII PavewayIII

      Labeling specific people as psychopaths is of little use – that's been done in various forms for centuries without much effect. In fact, it was quite often perverted into a favorite tool of the psychopaths in charge.

      Healthy people are susceptible to their influence and their successors' influence and so on. They can keep lining up faster than you can get rid of the one at the front of the line.

      • norbu norbu

        It is freedom to say what is on your mind.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        Paveway, What do you call it:
        "People who work for Tepco are not human; They have neither tears nor blood"

        • PavewayIII PavewayIII

          I'm troubled by the scope. All people who work for TEPPCO are not evil. Only the people in the top few levels. The closer they are to the plant floor, the more I would trust them.

          It took a decade to put the pieces in place that would result in such a catastrophy. There was a lot of nickel-and-diming going on to save a few yen over years and years by cutting corners and having regulators turn a blind eye.

          • Anthony Anthony

            There was also a pattern of records falsification, collusion and other unpleasant actions which ultimately led to the accident of 311. This is way beyond claiming it was budgetary. Money was probably the driving direction of the enterprise but the lies and bad actions were choices.

            For Tepco to say that their reactors were being operated safely while understanding it wasn't on several levels, was a dangerous decision, a dangerous lie with bad outcomes for everyone else.

            • PavewayIII PavewayIII

              I'm distinguishing the motives of floor workers at the plant from executive managers at TEPCO's corporate offices. Its easy to say they're equally responsible and the plant workers are just as guilty as the executives.

              The plant workers (just like in U.S. nuke plants) will be the first to tell you how many corners they're ordered to cut on poorly-designed, aging equipment. And just like U.S. workers, they're ordered not to talk about it, point out other problems or question management. Whistle-blowers will be buried.

              Meanwhile, some stuffed-shirt in the utilities corporate offices will issue decrees to cut staffing costs or use these cheap valves their brother-in-law can sell. Nobody cares what the plant engineers or technicians think – they're just the hired help.

              When Daiichi started collapsing into a junk heap, the plant workers irradiated themselves to save their neighbors. The execs? Hah – teleconference from far away before they bailed.

              The exact same thing will happen in the U.S. if there's ever an accident. Utility execs will be nowhere near their aging corroding scrap-heap, technology-of-yesteryear reactors when they blow. I only hope the actual plant workers are as dedicated as the workers that stayed at Daiichi.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        I thought Japan was chairing the Human Rights Commission of the UN. But I must have read some disinformation, because I can't find reference to that piece of information now.

        However, the UN should be involved in the human rights violations in Japan since March 11, 2011. If they are silent, they can be considered as aiding and abetting human rights violations.

    • ion jean ion jean

      Good mental health professionals have to admit that there Is rampant psychopathy in the American/Global Capitalist landscape: on Wall St., in Washington… In the Nuclear Terrorist Org, I mean Lobby…

      Basically, anyone who acquires wealth as an obsession, attention like an aphrodisiac, seeks power over others like a hunk of fissioning uranium,

      Will be pegged, off the record of course, as suffering from a mental illness.

    • GlowInTheDark GlowInTheDark

      "You may have to extend the label of psychopath to those in the UN as well."

      Yes, WHO, IAEA, in schools, churches, even Greenpeace.
      The Power That WAS made sure they infiltrated everywhere.

  • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

    The Reptilian Brain
    by David Icke

    “…It is important for people to know the basics about the reptilian brain because it (a) reveals where the character and attitudes of the Illuminati come from and (b) how and why we are manipulated mentally and emotionally in the way that we are through television and other imagery. It is to do with the manipulation of the reptilian part of the human brain….”

    Some people call David Icke a member of the controlled opposition. Do the illuminati really want us to consider them as reptiles?

    Seems like they have a real problem with self image.

  • norbu norbu

    Icke is one of them. we have been doing a huge amount of research he is one of them for sure. Keep up the good work Anne. you are on the right track – Illuminati the behind the scene problem of the world.

  • Maggie123

    I don't buy into the 'reptilian' thing except for our "reptilian brain" as part of who we are. I will say of Icke that I avoid him. My reasons don't go beyond my tendency to hold any "overly popularized esoteric answer-providing thinkers" suspect, once established, their egos seem to blossom remarkably! They come to believe their own fanciful narratives, and slip into an elitist position within their special niche.

    Stripped of the fancy – he does remind us to think critically and recognize the manipulations that are directed at us. That part of his message is valid, IMO, but the fanciful esoteric narrative is a distraction from grounded critical assessment of realities easily placed in the more regular material world of human doings.

    (I will say his reptilian race narrative is rich as a symbolic, metaphorical, story, but IMO needs to be understood as only that. I'll wait until a different level of existence to discover whether I'm foolish to reject the tale!) 🙂

    • richard richard

      some valid insights there maggie, thank you for verbalising them.

    • Maggie123

      I won't say much due to risk of OT, but realize the discussion includes Illuminati, and that Icke may have toned down his 'reptilian race' narrative – perhaps reducing it to an over-reliance on the reptilian brain component common to all of us. I've tracked info on these ideas for a few years. I do agree that there's a remarkable "heritage line of specific families" who've been successfully asserting their right to elitist, decision-making roles for a very long time. I find many labeled Illuminati are also 'newcomers', or close henchmen to the core families. So "the" Illuminati, as an unchanging, unchangeable, group, does not exist for me – but "elitist assumptions" very much do exist. For now, my interpretation – the one I settle on – is that all these are pretty normal humans but are raised in such a 'rarefied' environment that they genuinely haven't a clue why the rest of us don't seek their wisdom and leadership. Others find openings to "join" and embrace the opportunity. In a very 'real' sense, they live in a 'different world'. Not trying to persuade anyone – just sharing conclusions I've come to for the time being at least. (Am also in favor of clearing their illusions!) 🙂

  • norbu norbu

    You do not have to buy anything. I have connections that know him, he is not someone to trust. He does not remind me to do anything but not to trust anything he says or does, or anyone who listens to him. Not a tale you just have not dug deep enough yet, or maybe you really do not want to know, it is not the most pleasing info.

    • Maggie123

      Norbu, thank you for your concern. Clearly it is deep, and your having personal knowledge (which I do not) makes it more so. I have dug deep enough into Icke et al to have developed a clarity that works for me. If he were to show up at my door, I'd offer him a cup of tea in genuine welcome, and would very likely challenge his "understandings/teachings." Since that's a ridiculously unlikely possibility – I go my way. If he and similar others come up conversationally as sources of insight, I speak my piece of caution against the narratives, and again – go my way.

  • norbu norbu

    Also you admit you have a reptillian brain, hmmm, I do not, I am human.

    • DUDe DisasterInterpretationDissorder

      Sry norbu , but i don't think that evolution builds a complete new brain with every species , it builds upon what it has , you have leftovers of mamals and amfibie brains . Everybody has.

      • Dr. Anne Lee Tomlinson Maziar anne

        One of the problems with "belief" in evolution.

      • norbu norbu

        I do not care what wikii say's I am human. we have different origins. With all do respect to you, you or anyone else is not going to convince me I am part reptile, sorry.

      • norbu norbu

        D&D- you are out of your mind. speak for yourself only. I have never been a animal and never will be. I do not believe in evolution.

        • Maggie123

          Evolution yeah/nay is pretty far OT but for what it's worth I (and many others) do not hold to a "mechanistic" unfolding of "reality" or explanation of human consciousness, but also don't find conventional "anti-evolution" descriptions quite a match. So we don't fit well with either the 'yeah' or 'nay' understandings. Too complex a discussion to get into I suspect for any of us here. And it's a topic I usually avoid in situations where communication is awkward.

          If it's OK for me to say so – I think we all agree officials of Tepco and their government supporters are corrupted, and that the Japanese population is on track to confront them.

      • Maggie123

        I'm trying to behave myself re "sticking to topic" but will share this tidbit. I raised chickens for years and watched them with some amazement. The whole time I kept thinking – dinosaurs! I've got the 'real thing', 20thC version, right here! So much of their behavior was pure and obvious instinct. I even had a book "Behavior of Domestic Fowl" that examined the 'psychology' of chickens which I loaned out and didn't get back – but just the title was a treat! I loved coming to know farm animals – each so perfectly "right" for what it was! 🙂

    • Maggie123

      Norbu – From Wikipedia: "The triune model of the mammalian brain continues to hold interest because of its focus on the recognizable differences between most reptiles, early mammals, and late mammals. Reasons for this success are its simplicity; the theory in this form recognizes three major evolutionary periods in the development of the brain that are characterized by three recognizably distinct ways of solving adaptive challenges. Under this model, the "neocortex" represents that cluster of brain structures involved in advanced cognition, including planning, modeling and simulation; the "reptilian brain" refers to those brain structures related to territoriality, ritual behavior and other "reptile" behaviors; and "limbic brain" refers those brain structures, wherever located, associated with social and nurturing behaviors, mutual reciprocity, and other behaviors and affects that arose during the age of the mammals. The three brains are said to act in coordination or competition in this variation of the model. While there is only general scientific consensus on the applicability of the model, some people find this to be a helpful model because of its broad explanatory value."

      The Wikipedia article explores more recent informed brain studies that muddy the simplicity of the triune model, which is the model I usually use. Apologies for a possibly tedious Wiki passage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain. 🙂

  • m a x l i

    @norbu, to give this almost off-topic discussion a bit of on-topic touch: I really would like to know if you believe that you consist of atoms – tiny, mindless, primitive entities; even more lowly than mammals or reptilians – or is this a totally outlandish idea too?