Japan Professors: “Problem of such unprecedented magnitude” at Fukushima — International consequences — Fuel rods melted through reactor floors?

Published: September 23rd, 2013 at 8:55 pm ET
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Thomas Snitch, Senior Professor of Science at Institute for Advanced Studies (United Nations University, Tokyo), Japan Times, Sept. 23, 2013: Let the world help at Fukushima No. 1 […] It would be useful if the government of Japan would avail themselves of the assistance and technology that could be provided by foreign corporations with experience in the decommissioning of nuclear plants. […] The consequences of the continued delay in addressing the real challenges at Fukushima have international consequences. So, why not allow the international nuclear community the opportunity to help?

Colin P. A. Jones is a professor at Doshisha Law School in Kyoto, Japan Times, Sept. 17, 2013: […] If anything called for a nation’s government to quickly intervene actively on a massive scale and assume direct responsibility for a situation, it would be the crisis that continues to unfold 200 km from Tokyo. […] here we are 2½ years later, learning highly radioactive water has been leaking into the groundwater and the ocean and that storage tanks full of even more radioactive water are starting to fail. Surely it is a basic fact of life in nuclear power that fuel rods need to be kept cool whether sitting in a containment pool or melted through the reactor floor? The accumulation of radioactive water at the Fukushima plant was an utterly predictable problem almost from the day things first started to explode. Tepco gets a failing grade here for sure, but what about the people expecting a single company to deal with a problem of such unprecedented magnitude in the first place? […]

See also: [intlink id=”fukushima-plant-in-unprecedented-crisis-and-its-getting-worse-says-japan-nuclear-official” type=”post”]{{empty}}[/intlink]

Published: September 23rd, 2013 at 8:55 pm ET
By

47 comments

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47 comments to Japan Professors: “Problem of such unprecedented magnitude” at Fukushima — International consequences — Fuel rods melted through reactor floors?

  • "…the Fukushima plant was an utterly predictable problem almost from the day things first started to explode."

    Now there's an understatement.

    IMO – It was predictable before it exploded multiple times.
    Just like the rest of the NPPs on the planet.

    Now we know, simultaneous melTdowns really do happen.
    (x3 for now)

    There will be a next one.
    It's predictable and highly probable.

    By Gordon Edwards physics professor from Canada
    Date: 2010-12-01
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SruTxZJyMkA&list=PL69D1BB4DB0D8F834&index=24

    • Loveistheonlyrationalact Loveistheonlyrationalact

      If you think that any corporation, Gov't or regulatory commission gives a s**t about you or Fuku, they don't. unless you have a few xtra billion hanging around and a support staff that will go on-site to try anything, not a petition, protest or information campaign will do a damn thing. wake the F up.

      • dharmasyd dharmasyd

        If it is indeed true, "That love is the only rational act," then why, I must ask you, are you giving the finger to the world, without exception, to everyone?

        Oh, never mind. I can tell you are angry, too angry to try to discern to whom it applies, and to whom not.

        I suggest you concentrate upon the love, and not the judgement.

  • MichaelV MichaelV

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Japanese_relations

    There must be international action on this crisis.

    China may have to invade Japan in order to save itself…

    • We Not They Finally

      When there is no more Japan, what will politics even matter? This is about life itself. For the whole planet.

  • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

    can we get realistic about this international assistance question? GE and the nuclear industry is global. How long have we had TEPCO painted as inept bungling goofballs?

    We have seen that the super power DOE had super brains and computers on the fukushima problem since the beginning. You have this hugely powerful nuke cartel and your telling me that they just sit there and say;

    "well those goofballs are usin duct tape and clothes hangers and weve offered help but theyre too dumb or proud so we just let them fumble even though it means certain ruin of our industry and collapse of nations"

    I just cannot buy that story for a second. More likely is that they didnt want to jump in because it was a safer bet to let TEPCO take the blame, and at the same time theyre trying to come up with solutions. Deep earth meltdown was probably a conscious decision early on. A gamble. Rod removal…you bet they are not banking on a third party subcontracted kid with a cherry picker. Unless they have lost all brains…not out of the question

    OK, lets write those trillion dollar super cartel nuke industries and tell them Joe Nobody from Podunk asks please do the right thing. I think thats all they need to get motivated, right?

    • MichaelV MichaelV

      China lies outside the influence of the global cartel…

    • bo bo

      They didn't want to jump in simply because 1. They know that there is no solution to this and 2. Nobody wants to spend more than 3 hours (or even less)!!! I mean, would YOU ?! The last IAEA visit was 3 hours, Abe's tour was 3 hours… nobody other than those nameless workers in white seem to stay any longer than that.

      • bo bo

        Sorry, the above sentence was written hastily – that is, nobody wants to be on site at fukushima for more than three hours…

    • behappy1

      Very true
      As long as people think this is just a TepGov uberfail
      the people think it can be fixed.

      Just need the "right" people doing it.

      Yes, if the industry had a "fix"
      Abe would not stand in the way

    • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

      I think they did not step in because of plausible denial…If the DOE got involved, they would be implicated in the murders of millions of people they have let be irradiated for the past 900+ days.

      We have the Three monkey's see no evil-DOE/USA, hear no evil-Abe/Tepco, speak no evil-International Community.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        actually DOE admitted they were involved and were working around the clock. DOE has supercomputers you wouldnt believe

        If it is high profile that the DOE and nuclear agencies get involved it sends the message that nuclear is a loose cannon, a failure, but if they work behind the scenes, they can make TEPCO look like inept bungling fools and the rest of the world can continue with nuclear plants. The trade off is a calculated risk of lives. I guess in their minds it may be tens of thousands to a few million, small potatoes

        • We Not They Finally

          Then again, if the DOE has such sophisticated computers and can thus map out where the CORIUMS are, there would be no incentive to NOT address that, unless they positively WANT the ecological destruction of the entire world and its genomes.

          I cannot see where even they would WANT that. It's not that there are not evil people doing evil things. There are. But even the most cynical views of "deliberating culling the population" would not including destroying this beautiful planet even for THEMSELVES, would it?

          But if I'm not already cynical enough, someone please tell me! Can't stand the suspense.

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            One wonders if a deliberate decision to let it melt into the earth was made. They no doubt projected deaths. Many are divorced from the notion of ecological sensitivity. They may not have had a CHOICE but to let it self destruct. Nobody could muscle the motion to FUND anything, and in the spotlight, it would come out that nuclear was tragic and corrupt. Dont forget the claims of underground weapons facilities etc. The uber rich will not let go of their investments easily and lives may mean little to them.

    • richard richard

      Can you please stop using the collective 'we'.

      Speak for yourself.

      It's all you're opinion, not mine, or 'we'.

      Some of us have been watching this since the beginning, others have come along well after the fact.

      Some of what I and others said back in the beginning was panned as being to wild. Since then, I've watched as this train wreck continues on it's somewhat predicted course.

      I was calling tepco and the japanese government as incompetent, uncaring and corrupt long ago. It's an organised crime cartel.

      Anyway… all I'm driving at is… please speak for youself.. not 'we'.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        sorry Richard, its an idiomatic expression common to England. In the future I will use a phrase like "hell, Ah smelled them vermin from a hunderd yard back when you was makin moonpies in mudbuckits" or "Iyiz what Iyiz and Ahm speakin my mind while its still got gas in the tank, sorry its a-tweakin yer sensibilities"

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    U.S. is pretending this nuclear disaster isn't happening.

    • bo bo

      Will obama mention the F word tomorrow in his address to the UN tomorrow?

    • dosdos dosdos

      That is because Japan is pretending the disaster isn't happening, and the US doesn't want to cause them to lose face and have the diplomatic relations go sour. Until the government of Japan asks for help, there isn't much anyone can do under international law concerning nuclear power. The laws are written up to where the parent nation has full control, and another nation can not intervene without permission. Not even the IAEA can take action. The world is waiting for the government of Japan to come to its senses. Until then, those who can help will pretend right along with Japan.

      • bo bo

        Abe is pretending that the disaster is under control. Japanese people have made numerous desperate pleas to the UN and so far has fallen on deaf ears.

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          The UN, Obama et al have a dossier on their desk with all the info. There is a reason for no apparent action, and its not being misinformed

        • bo bo

          And if America is willing to intervene in Syria and willing to speak to Assad to ask him to come to his senses, why not do that to Abe, who is killing not only his own citizens, but also the citizens of the U.S….. ?

          • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

            The US and allied thieves are in Syria for strategic interest and are not in Fukushima for strategic interest reason. They usually dont tell why but make up some story

            • mairs mairs

              Of course. It's about a pipeline through Syria that Putin doesn't want and Assad blocks, but that the US wants. Putin intervened to keep Assad from being attacked. He doesn't want him overthrown. The US only interferes when it's about oil. Sierra Leone rebels cut off the hands, arms, and legs of innocent villagers including children ten years ago, and who gives them anything other than a sorrowful glance. Gee I'm sorry. Too bad you don't have anything I want or I'd save you people.

      • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

        actually the US DOE was on it with their brightest brains working 18 hour days, or so they said

      • MichaelV MichaelV

        http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation#Biological_effects

        Exposure to ionizing radiation causes damage to living tissue, and can result in mutation, radiation sickness, cancer, and death.

        Could the radiation be destroying brain cells and thereby causing this insane behaviour…?

        How do these people rise to such positions of power..?

      • We Not They Finally

        I say that once Japan deliberately, repeatedly and severely contaminated international waters, plus atmospheric bands that circle the whole globe, they should rightfully LOSE their national sovereignty over this.

        If the U.N. were worth its salt, it would vote to condemn and sanction Japan, and to force them to respond to international control. Problem is, the U.N. controlled agencies, the UNSCEAR and WHO and IAEA (IAEA controls WHO regarding radiation — I don't know if they are directly the U.N.) are too corrupt to even take that first humane step.

        Didn't realize it, but just learned the other day from a youtube interview with Chris Busby, that all the way back in 1959, WHO agreed to never say anything about radiation without the express approval of the IAEA. And that agreement is still in effect today. Disgraceful.

        • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

          The IAEA, WHO, UN and other official bodies are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. This is like petitioning a great white to protect you from a hammerhead. As with the Universities and science organizations, one can only wonder where the whistle blowers and truth tellers are

          • We Not They Finally

            I concur completely. It's just tragic that that's where the power seems to reside to date. It's just daunting to know how to shift that. Whistleblowers has always been one of the best ways, but there is really no way to force that to happen.

            We were just looking at Steven Greer's "Disclosure Project" about UFO's. He's assembled hundreds of whistleblowers from high government officials now retired, yet seems to make little headway. But it's not because the whistleblowers are not credible or their claims ridiculous. It's because "the military industrial complex" (as per Ike) wants us chained to oil, gas and coal instead of advanced tech that would provide humanity with free energy.

            But to date, they still have the power. It's like "the more things change, the more they stay the same." We want/need a PARADIGM SHIFT, but that comes from where?

          • bo bo

            The IAEA UN WHO are not just PART of the problem, they ARE the problem.

        • bo bo

          WNTF – this 1959 WHO gag order is exactly why the F word will never be mentioned in the UN and why all pleas made by the japanese people and many other organizations to the UN have been completely stonewalled.

          We will never hear from the UN. Not today, not tomorrow.

          And mairs – so true, it's all about the pipeline. Period.

          The UN is a total sham.

        • ftlt

          We: The Who restrictions have been all over this MB for 21/2 years… WHO is a too Org when it comes to anything nuclear..

          Why the constant attacks on Japan??… You must believe that they have a functioning national gov't and that there others elsewhere too… An illusion many yet suffer

          The nation state is all but dead… They have been replaced by off shore neoliberal borderless fiscal empires..

          Soon (in a few decades) private armies will run the world and all pretenses of collapse

          • bo bo

            Through 9/11made me aware of the existence of the conspiracies that surround us, 3/11 made me aware of its enormity.

            • bo bo

              Ftlt after 9/11- I still would have rolled my eyes at that prediction 'soon private armies will run the world' – I actually did have a rosier world view – i actually did believe that the patriots act was just an act of a single evil presidency, that it would be repealed, not reinforced, with the new presidency – i actually still believed that democracy worked and that some people in government actually do care about the people.

              After 3/11, and obama's betrayal, and digging deeper and deeper, i agree with your assessment.

            • truthseek truthseek

              Well said bo!

  • ftlt

    Where are the bastards all over the world who lied about all this and profited from doing so…

    IT IS NOT JUST A JAPANESE ISSUE!!!

    They should be hauled out in chains publicly then slowly hung, then disemboweled while still living, then drawn and quartered with their quarters hung in crow cages on the points of the compass at FUFU… I mean this…

    And their immediate families should be made to work at FUFU until it cleaned up… I mean this…

    100% of all family member assets seized for the benefit of their victims I mean this

    OCCUPY!!!!

  • Ron

    "It would be useful if the government of Japan would avail themselves of the assistance and technology that could be provided by foreign corporations with experience in the decommissioning of nuclear plants."

    What technology do other nations have that the Japanese do not?

    So is the problem that the Japanese is refusing to allow other governments to help them because they would be EMBARRASSED for accept help. Is this just a case of the notorious Asian need to save face? If that is the case, if they are that infantile, then they need to be brushed aside immediately and the job done period.

    • CodeShutdown CodeShutdown

      Japan welcomed aid from many countries in the aftermath of the tsunami. Foreign aid is a complex subject.

      Fukushima will cost a lot of money, one way or the other. The U.S. powers would not give this for "free", no doubt taking advantage of the situation to expand their geopolitical influence.

      As Japan has a delicate relation with China, disputing islands and having negative history, a debtors obligation to the U.S. may be more than awkward. Obama has all but declared war on the China-Russia powers by continuing its aggressive military buildup and accusatory posturing. Japan may not be anxious to be a pawn of those geopolitical games when its own future is so obviously gloomy. Then there are so many secret alliances that one could not anticipate.

      The mitigation efforts for fukushima will have to be an international cooperation. But this must be made difficult because such countries are already vying for power and either have no money or dont care to give it away for "nothing". In the meantime, the IAEA seems to be extraordinarily powerful with a mission to promote nuclear and suppress negative information. The IAEA reports to the U.N. which knows full well what is happening. Thus a trail of corruption and weirdness goes to the very top, the very source of possible aid to Fukushima. Fortunes and futures are at stake for big nuke power players. These are not passive people, and naturally want to control. Lethargy or passivity or lack of knowledge is not the…

  • MichaelV MichaelV

    There is probably some back channel sharing of information between industry and government, albeit nothing that could be publicly announced as that would implicate the ones directly responsible for this disaster.

    Hence Abe's 'Under control'

  • Go Flying

    A depressing thought…

    It occurred to me this morning that the reason the US and other nations are reluctant to get further involved is perhaps because their brightest minds have come to the conclusion that there is little more that can be done at Fukushima other than what is already underway.

    Yes, the tanks could be replaced with non leaking designs, and the ground water flow could be somewhat mitigated, but from a big picture perspective, these things might not make that much difference in the long term.

  • ftlt

    The American-centric knob attitudes on here are not charming or helpful…

    We have for generations been force feed a diet of Kool-Aid and Jello laced with untruths, an un-world view and false histories.. Stop eating and drinking it

  • truthseek truthseek

    Go Flying, you are on a roll. I agree, in the totally magnanimous scope of things, it probably matters very little, as this IS SUCH A BIG DEAL, to those paying attention especially.

  • Is Fukushima really in cold shutdown? via A Green Road Blog
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/fukushima-is-it-really-in-cold-shutdown.html

    Radioactive Smoke/Steam Coming Out Of Ground And #3 Reactor Building At Fukushima 2011- 2013 via @AGreenRoad
    http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/02/tokyo-alert-severe-radioactive-smoke.html