L.A. Times: Speculation that “supercritical fission event” occurred at Fukushima reactor irradiating plutonium, says nuclear expert — Explosion so massive investigators found fuel rod fragments a mile away

Published: March 9th, 2012 at 2:08 am ET
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Follow-up to: Just-Published Study: Plutonium being found away from Fukushima is from nuclear fuel fragments blown out after explosions

Title: Plutonium near Fukushima plant poses little risk, study says
Source: Los Angeles Times
Author: Amina Khan (Ralph Vartabedian contributed to report)
Date: March 8, 2012
Emphasis Added

[...] In the area around the Fukushima plant, preliminary testing hadn’t turned up signs of new plutonium isotopes in the soil. Unlike cesium-137 and other radioactive isotopes, plutonium can’t vaporize and travel through the air. But it’s possible the force of the hydrogen explosions blew out a little plutonium in the form of particulate matter.

[...] near Fukushima, the researchers found that the ratio of plutonium-241 to plutonium-239 was much higher than expected. They said it was a clear sign that fresh plutonium must have been deposited in the area. [...]

Robert Alvarez, a former senior policy adviser in the U.S. Energy Department

  • “They were irradiating plutonium in Unit 3, which experienced the biggest explosion”
  • The explosion was so massive that investigators found fuel rod fragments a mile away, leading to speculation that a supercritical fission event may have also occurred
  • Much remains unknown one year after the disaster
  • Authorities can’t say exactly where breaches occurred in the reactor vessels and spent fuel pools that caused contaminated water to flood the plant’s lower levels

Lead author Jian Zheng of the National Institute of Radiological Sciences in Chiba, Japan

The amount of plutonium-241 released from the power plant was about 1/10,000th that from the 1986 Chernobyl accident in Ukraine.

Dale Klein, a former Nuclear Regulatory Commission chairman

  • Fukushima was no Chernobyl
  • [Klein is] co-author of a report on Fukushima for the American Nuclear Society. That report says the long-term health risks of the radioactive fallout probably would be minimal.

Read the report here

More reports of fragments of nuclear fuel on the ground:

Published: March 9th, 2012 at 2:08 am ET
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129 comments

Related Posts

  1. Just-Published Study: Plutonium being found away from Fukushima is from nuclear fuel fragments blown out after explosions March 9, 2012
  2. Report: Nuclear fuel fragments found over a mile away were “ejected from the reactor cores in those explosions” not spent fuel pools, according to NRC (VIDEO) August 18, 2011
  3. UPDATE: Neutron beams suggest uranium and plutonium have leaked and nuclear fission has occurred March 23, 2011
  4. Japan nuclear expert: Massive “re-melting” occurred at Reactor No. 3 (DIAGRAM) August 8, 2011
  5. Japan Times: It is now a “grave situation” at Fukushima — “Plutonium fission” mentioned for first time — “Criticality is very likely to have occurred” November 3, 2011

129 comments to L.A. Times: Speculation that “supercritical fission event” occurred at Fukushima reactor irradiating plutonium, says nuclear expert — Explosion so massive investigators found fuel rod fragments a mile away

  • Kevin Kevin

    This seems to counter alot of the discussion here

    "Unlike cesium-137 and other radioactive isotopes, plutonium can't vaporize and travel through the air."

    And instead of the 5 orders of magnitude less than Chernobyl we get 1/10,000th.

    So what is the real deal with the plutonium? I have never been able to get clear info on that.


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    • lokay5

      "Speculation that “supercritical fission event” occurred at Fukushima reactor"

      No shit? What else is new? Like I've said before; Anyone who thinks that the explosion at reactor 3 was simply hydrogen is either stupid or delusional.


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      • Laterlukemayb Laterlukemayb

        Agreed lakay5, yep something really, really bad happened at Fukushima and the world is telling the truth. It appears nobody wants anything the Japanese have to offer at the moment….

        http://www.zerohedge.com/news/has-japan-run-out-cans-kick


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      • moonshellblue moonshellblue

        I do think Ian Goddard got the scenario spot on concerning the explosion in Reactor 3 also it is possible the same event happened at TMI concerning the lifting of the well cap but the containment held as it was a different set of circumstances. But this is a major design flaw inherent in Mark 1 BWR's. Shut them down now. NO NUKES


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        • I'd buy the lifted head on Mark I or II plants, pretty much the only way hydrogen could have filled the Rx building from the vessel/primary containment.

          TMI, however, was a B&W PWR with a significant pressure/coolant leak [LOCA] atop the pressurizer. That was the primary pathway for hydrogen to escape the vessel during the meltdown.


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    • ITSNOTABANANA

      Kevin, With the amount of misinformation out there, and without trying to make an ass of you and me, I will ass-u-me the numbers and statements sometimes are "backassward"…
      10000/1 is more realistic IMO.
      Also, I believe plutonium CAN be vaporized and become airborne. HERE IS WHY
      plutonium is a solid element below 600*C(approx)
      plutonium is a liquid element between 600*C(approx) and 3200*C(approx)
      plutonium becomes a gaseous(VAPOR) element at temperatures above 3200*C(approx)

      As with any other element, its(Pu's) state(solid, liquid, gas) is an indicator of it dispersion potential.

      I am relatively certain the ONLY plutonium Chernobyl dispersed was plutonium that was created within the reactor, as a reaction product.

      Rumor has it, Fukushima Dai'ichi unit #3 had a LOAD of MOX fuel (Pu laced) in it when it blew. Everyone, who was lucky enough, saw the blast on their government sponsored television sets.


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      • ITSNOTABANANA

        A little Einstein tidbit here…

        Nearly immediately after atomic warfare was put into use, Einstein began his shrewish, feverish, and ultimately self-destructive quest to travel back in time to sabotage the discovery and subsequent half-wit (at best) understanding of all things radioactive. He must have regretted his involvement, in the matter, to an extreme extent…


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      • James2

        Chernobyl was 3 months old when it blew and there was not much plutonium yet, even though I think it was a fast breeder.

        It's not a rumor that MOX was in #3 – that's a given – there were press releases and photos of them loading it in August 2010.

        So you are correct: the ratio is laughable – more misinformation

        And finally – since you seem to be new here – let me clue you in that My observation of Kevin is that he's intimately familiar with the disinformation campaign – he seems to have a nose for being in the middle of it all the time…


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        • Kevin Kevin

          James what are you referee or something?

          lol

          Your constitute accusation is laughable.

          I post by own name, its no secret who I am, and anyone who knows me knows that your wild accusations are far removed from reality.

          I understand you take it upon yourself to be the "shill" identifier. Ya well look in the mirror.


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          • James2

            Kevin – you prove my point just below in black and white.

            Everyone here only needs to look at your post below to prove my point- which begins

            "This is a fine train of logic"

            It says you are familiar with communications not a nuclear physicist (no joke)

            Then your post proceeds to introduce confusion.

            Then proceeds to divert the conversation off topic around Depleted Uraniun – even though that has nothing to do with the topic and you are not a "nuclear physicist".

            So Kevin if my accusation is incorrect – you time and time again sure make a convincing argument for me being correct. I think the shill handlers should have hired a nuclear physicist instead of a communications major if you ask me.


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            • Kevin Kevin

              James, once again you make a strawman to kick over to prove a point that is unclear in a bid to prove your inane accusations have merit.

              My comment was very clearly addressed to the OP, Notabanana, who addressed me specifically in the post.

              I said his thinking was a good train of logic. I myself have posted precisely what he ( and you) say here in other threads talking about this in the past couple days. (In that thread I said as both of you infer " Chrenobyly was a fresh core, meaning less plutonium, and there was no fuel pool involved as I recall).

              Moreover, yesterday I stated that you consistently set up strawmen and then create a fictional narrative that suits your twisted purpose while using it as a soapbox to launch off another rant about disinformation. Each and every time you do it, it is near impossible to properly ascertain what the misinformation is. But you pat yourself on the back for your triumph of "tenaciously attacking shills"

              The DU notion I introduce is not "off topic" or a deflection nor is it confusing. I worked to make the point very clear.

              We have scientific evidence that DU can travel long distances. DU is derived from spent fuel. People are wondering if the spent fuel pools had the capacity to both release nasty stuff like plutonium and have it travel long distances. The proven DU dissemination is a relevant precedent with respect to the topic for which there are few relevant precedents.

              If you spent less time attacking everyone and more time clearly stating the information you believe needs to be understood you might be more effective.

              Unfortunately attacking posters like JoyB while inferring a whole host of us others are "shills" because they do not agree entirely with your opinion (or in this case do agree, as often happens) does little to meet this goal you constantly state you have but rather undermines your credibility.

              Spend less time "proving" who are the shills and more time proving your not.


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          • ITSNOTABANANA

            We have to realize, that as "minds of our own" we will never agree 100% on all things… One bit of misinformation, inexorably leads to confused opinions and misunderstandings. The effect is a disaster in its own right.
            The truth in things will always show itself.
            Please don't waste your time debunking another persons opinions as deceptions. Paid opinions are surely recognized as such.


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            • James2

              Fair point. I don't expect to agree 100% on anything about this. I think I've proven that a reasoned counterpoint to mine is always appreciated.

              However since I discovered the shills, I have been unwilling to back down to them.

              They are making money on other people's suffering – and I think that is as wrong as being a gulag prison guard.

              I believe exposing their methods and deceptions is quite important, because I don't think most even notice it's happening.

              Others have asked me to stop exposing them in the name of harmony – however, I do not intend to unless admin forces me to – because I don't think there is anything harmonious going on in Japan right now – it is evil people sentencing innocents to death with their actions and their accumulation of money – and the evils that work for them on the cover-up don't deserve an easy job of it.


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              • ITSNOTABANANA

                Yes the shills/trolls are out there working to undermine the truth.
                Have they invaded this forum? Yes
                Are they projecting their paid opinions to people in a semi-forcibly manner? Yes
                Are they supportive to the poison of all poisons? Yes
                When their job is "on the line" do they lie? Yes
                Will they be subjected to the same truth a non-shill will be subjected to? YES
                Can a true and right person overcome the influence of shills/trolls? YES

                Is a person who has been influenced to believe untruths by a shills paid opinion a shill as well? Not necessarily


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              • ITSNOTABANANA

                James, any attempt to uncover the truth and condemn the trolls who undermine it, is truly righteous.


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        • ITSNOTABANANA

          Hi James, thanks for the reply(a lot). I've been here just as long as anyone else (reading). Just staring to speak my mind on things.
          Please accept my comments wherever and whenever they may appear.
          Also please expect they will never be supportive of nuclear energy, destruction of life forms, etc etc.


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      • Kevin Kevin

        This is a fine train of logic.

        And I agree that sorting out the bluff and bluster from the facts is frustrating on this one.

        I am not a nuclear physicist, but I do have experience with communications.

        That said, what I discern to be obfuscated facts are as follows (beyond the obvious confusion created around the status of both the reactors and pools)

        The plutonium threat
        – How much was stored in both reactors and pools
        – How much was released in the explosions
        – The type of explosion and its bearing on released pluto
        – The capacity of plutonium to reach the jetstream
        – the true nature of the threat it presents to living organisms

        At the time of the incident I set out to learn about these specific concerns, and learned that doing so was a near impossibility. The entire scientific community is completely entrenched in a defensive posture on the issue.

        We do know depleted uranium from wars past travelled great distances. They did so despite no similar exlposive launch. It happened despite the notion of them being a heavier element. DU is a by product of reactors that work to create electricty. DU is the equivalent to what was stored in the spent fuel pools. So if the core presented a threat in launching pu, and potentially vapourizing it by presenting the required level of heat to do so, the subsequently affected pools must also present a threat based on the DU modelling that has been proven and accepted by the scientific community. Therefor a layman like me can decide with some accuracy that both the pools and the cores presented a potential for huge pu releases. Despite the recent scientific findings that are suggesting the contrary.


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        • Just to correct a misconception – DU [depleted uranium] is not a reactor by-product. It is u238 from which the small amount of fissile u235 has been removed (to be added to 238 to produce reactor fuel – "enrichment"). The depleted 238 is then rendered to its metallic form and used to make big-bullet and mortar shells for dirty big and little wars all over the world.

          Spent fuel is so full of highly radioactive fission products that the remaining 238 is good for absolutely nothing but burying for ~240,000 years.


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          • Kevin Kevin

            Thanks for that clarification.

            I read the following on wikipedia:

            "Most depleted uranium arises as a byproduct of the production of enriched uranium for use in nuclear reactors."

            Which is obviously not a by-product which is why I said "equivalent" and it seems like a situation which is about as close as we are going to get while in search of a precedent.

            However its a side issue to the point I was making.

            I was attempting a simple comparison. Similar by – products have indeed travelled long distances and has been scientifically proven.

            I am at a loss to find other relevant processes. That said, we do know that all the testing (thousands of bombs) over the years has also proved wide dissemination, but again its different products and circumstances.

            However all of these precedents seems to suggest that the stuff released could have travelled great distances as well and there has been some detection in far off lands that seem to prove this has occurred.

            Its simply a matter of collecting as much remotely relevant data as we can to counter the notion these studies are forwarding which is that barely any pu was released, none of it traveled very far and of course none of it presents a health threat.


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            • Well, sure. Some of the crap from the explosions is still circling the globe in the upper atmosphere/jet stream.


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              • Kevin Kevin

                This is the whole issue JoyB.

                The fact is, this recent testing and much of the communication by qualified professionals consistantly claims that Pu does not travel because its too "heavy." From day one this is what I heard and tried to find out about.

                So while you say "sure the crap is floating around in the jetstream" I tend to think that is true, despite it being horrifying, however it is clearly refuted and everywhere else by those who are supposed "to know."

                The pros refute it. Consistanly, even right up until today and in these studies. One quote is plain as day "Unlike cesium-137 and other radioactive isotopes, plutonium can't vaporize and travel through the air." Which I pointed out in the very first comment in this thread.

                So, this is why I have referred to other examples, such as the DU. Where seemingly "heavy" particulates have indeed travelled through the air to far off lands. And in the instance of DU there was no massive explosion to launch them as high as the jetstream.

                So while you and I can say yup its happening, I am not a physicist and those who are say it cannot happen and publish studies with these claims that 1/10,000 of the amount of plutonium was released compared to Chernobyl, where the core was fresh (less pluto produced as a result), there was no MOX fuel (no pluto to begin with in the fuel mix)and no fuel pool (a potentially huge store of plutonium given that each reactor can create as much as 500 lbs of plutonium per year and Arnie claimed that the pool had 10 years worth of spent fuel rods in it)

                So I am trying to build up enough evidence with all these claims to refute the professionals who deny much plutonium was released and dispell the myth that it cannot travel long distances, despite being a lay person who wishes otherwise for all of our sakes

                And to be even clearer, I am doing so because we must end nuclear power and this info is key to achieving that.


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                • The difference in "weight" of u238 (DU) and p239 is a single, actually weightless subatomic particle. The DU that's getting around the world hasn't even been vaporized – it's just been exploded by the big bullets it encases. Primary use in tank-busters. u239 is a very heavy metal. If merely pulverized DU can cross continents on the wind, so can pulverized plutonium. And vaporized plutonium can stay circle the globe for years.


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                • VanneV anne

                  Report: 76 trillion becquerels of Plutonium-239 released from Fukushima — 23,000 times higher than previously announced
                  http://enenews.com/updated-report-76-trillion-becquerels-plutonium-239-released-fukushima-23000-times-higher-previously-announced


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                • VanneV anne

                  Isotopic evidence of plutonium release into the environment from the Fukushima DNPP accident
                  08 March 2012
                  http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/120308/srep00304/full/srep00304.html


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                • Thanks again for your always useful links, anne.


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                • Kevin Kevin

                  Yes exactly. Which is why I chose it as a good example to prove that the "heavy" excuse does not cut it for me.

                  Because as you point out, it may not even require the extreme heat to be "vapourized" as proven by the DU. And the DU is fact, undeniable fact.

                  So in the end most of the arguments they are putting forward about the spread of Pu are becoming thread bare. Which again raises alarm bells for me. If I can find enough supporting evidence that casts doubt on these claims of theres, it would seem they are stooping to incredible new lows to put the pu genie back in the bottle. Not a good sign, as doing so suggests they are desperate to cover something up.

                  I mean think of it this way. This accident pulled all the worst case scenarios and wrapped them up in one "incident" A huge EQ, a huge tsunami, power outages,explosions, multiple meltdowns with overstacked pools sitting right in the middle of it all in the oldest and lousiest reactors on the planet. If it is true, that there was nominal impacts, little pu released, cold shut down achieved and everything is fragile but under control, the industry would be publicly high fiving each other and holding huge press conferences to brag about given how all these worst case scenarios culminated into one event and their stuff survived and resulted in just a local evacuation. They would literally be singing praises about how awesome they are and how nuclear power has proven you can throw everything one could possibly imagine at it not one death resulted while we contained the problem to a small local area. You know what I mean. There is no doubt in my mind that would occur if the official story was even remotely close to reality. However it is not, because the fairy tale marks what is probably the biggest cover up known to man, and all their manpower is going into simply downplaying it and working to simply survive another day.

                  Simply said, it stinks, real bad.


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                • Kevin Kevin

                  Yes I meant to thank you as well Anne.

                  This last link is to a local intiative here in BC. I dont know how successful they were in getting their intiative off the ground but I recommended them to lots of people when they started up, especially those looking for local people to compare testing with.

                  They are also part of a conference this weekend at UVIC. I think they may have had a hand in organizing it. Arnie is attending via skype. Apparently they are going to post stuff on the net afterwards which I will forward. I cannot attend, but it seems it may have some potential to be less of a managed down affair, however I cannot be sure of that. So lets hope and see.


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                • Kevin Kevin

                  Oh, by the way. I did send around Majia's awesome presentation to people who are promoting it and attending. So hopefully that will inspire some folks and raise the bar a little!


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                • VanneV anne

                  • Fukushima: what is plutonium and what are the dangers?
                  “….Around four tonnes of plutonium were released into the global environment before atmospheric testing ended….”
                  http://www.smh.com.au/environment/fukushima-what-is-plutonium-and-what-are-the-dangers-20110330-1cfmb.html


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                • VanneV anne

                  Nuclear Scientist Recycled Fuel Containing Plutonium at Fukushima Plant Increases Meltdown Stakes
                  March 15, 2011
                  “The multiple cooling system failures at Fukushima Dai-Ichi could increase cancer fatalities if Unit 3 explodes, according to Ed Lyman, a senior scientist in the Global Security Program. An expert on nuclear weapons policy , nuclear materials and nuclear terrorism, he has revealed on the All Things Nuclear.org website that Reactor Unit 3 runs on mixed-oxide (MOX) fuel in the core. …
                  ”He then cited a study by Sandia National Laboratories showing that the likelihood of “containment failure in this case is nearly 42%. The most likely failure scenario involves the molten fuel burning through the reactor vessel, spilling onto the containment floor and spreading until it contacts and breaches the steel containment vessel wall.”…
                  “However, he reiterates that three reactors there have Mart I containments which are “unusually vulnerable to containment failure in the event of a core-melt accident.”…”
                  http://www.huntingtonnews.net/2427


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                • VanneV anne

                  California Plutonium 43 Times, Hawaii 11 Times Highest Levels In 20 Years In Wake Of Fukushima Nuclear Disaster
                  April 29th, 2011
                  http://dprogram.net/2011/04/29/california-plutonium-43-times-hawaii-11-times-highest-levels-in-20-years-in-wake-of-fukushima-nuclear-disaster/


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                • Alaskan Alaskan

                  Thanks for the great info , Kevin, Anna, JoyB, James2 and everyone else that brings light to this dark secret


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                • I think it's a mistake to focus too much on plutonium from Fukushima. Yes, plutonium got out just like everything else got out. Yes, it came down in the fallout all over the world along with everything else. And yes, plutonium is dangerous to human health, just like everything else.

                  …it's just not where the majority of harm will come from. A for instance to illustrate, using anne's 76 trillion Bq figure above:

                  76 terabecquerels of p239
                  = 2054 curies
                  1 curie p239 = .063 grams
                  .063 x 2054 = 129.4 grams p239

                  That's not enough p239 to make a single workable H-bomb. True figure could be higher by several factors of ten, but it's still not tons – and humanity is still here after bomb test days, isn't it? Everybody's "scared" of plutonium BECAUSE they make bombs with it. But it's not the main danger of power plant meltdowns.

                  Using becquerels as a measurement makes things sound really, really bad, but in truth it's just disintegrations per second. In a meltdown curies are the better measurement – billions of curies (est.) of fission products have been released to the air and ocean from Daiichi. It was iodine, the cesium sisters and strontium that caused almost all of the suffering and death back in the '50s. They'll do the same now.


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                • Bobby1

                  Strontium-90 is probably the isotope with the #1 risk factor now. 100 years from now, it will be plutonium… 1,000 years from now too. It will be hanging around for a very long time.


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                • Kevin Kevin

                  JoyB,

                  While what you state is accurate, the reason I hit on plutonium is for the reason you go on to state.

                  'Everybody' fears it. Like you say, everyone knows it is the nastiest stuff we have created. As I have earlier stated, I am not a physicist and will not refute your claims as I am sure they are accurate and would not if they were not.

                  What I do know is that in order for us to start winning the communications war, which to my thinking is the most important, we need to be able to communicate facts that resonate with people. We dont have the ability to teach physics to people, but we do have an opportunity to turn the communications tide and I think plutonium is key in doing so.

                  It is not false to present the stuff as dangerous, it resonates and if we can sink that message in the psyche of the public, we have the opportunity then to explain that beyond the horrifying threat presented by pu, there are more daunting and toxic releases to contend with.


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    • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

      How dangerous is 400-600 pounds of nano particle sized plutonium?

      http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-dangerous-is-400-600-pounds-of.html


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    • Every element, natural Everything man made, has three stages: solid, liquid, and gas (as in vaporized). Anyone who tells you plutonium or ANY other element "cannot be vaporized" is a liar, a fool, or both. The state of an element (solid, gas, or liquid) is dependent on both pressure and temperature. A nuclear official saying plutonium cannot be volatilized is both a liar and a fool who may often start believing his own lies (even the lies that they "know" somewhere in the back of their brains are false). If there are actually nuclear plant operators and inspectors who do NOT understand how the three states of every element work… then I am more horrified than ever. It is like being on giant jetliner with a crew of drunk monkeys at the controls.


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      • SnorkY2K

        That is outdated. Plasma is also considered a phase now where the gas is heated to the point that the atom is ionized. Because of the temperatures, pressures, and velocities of flow, plasma is a very important phase to understand in this situation. Also, there are intermetalic states that relate to how the materials will separate or disperse.

        Leaving plasma out when discussing phases is like leaving balance out of the number of senses that we have.


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    • AGreenRoad AGreenRoad

      How Dangerous Is 400-600 Pounds Of Plutonium Nano Particle Dust Liberated By Fukushima? Via A Green Road Blog http://agreenroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-dangerous-is-400-600-pounds-of.html


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  • stopnp stopnp

    Wow. Holy down play batman. The beginning of this article seemed so good.


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Dear Stop: you bring up an important point and observation. There appears to be a programmatic pattern to how ENE admin introduces articles here in headlines that is intentional and worsening. First, there is a build-up hinting new information around the corner in the ENE introductions/headlines, and then a programmed let-down. It's an old fashioned Skinner behavioral modification trick. The more often a disappointing "reward" is provided after the food button is flashed (from his experiments) the more quickly the "reward seeker" is going to stop looking/researching at all. In our case the reward would be more NEW information that is contextually and concisely relevant. The more you can discourage people, especially the very easily discouraged more casual observers visiting the site who wonder if there is anything they can understand about the ideas about Fukushima that is different from MSM social construction/spinology, the happier information managers and their employers are. We Die-hards, on the other hand, who are mostly used to all manner of obfuscation can persist anyway and are, as a secondary effect of the above program, isolated from influencing the rest of society by the above methods. Momentum deflation is almost always primarily achieved through an overall strategy of "divide and conquer". The methods of dividing and conquering potential opposition to a status quo power elite are diverse and have been around for millenia.

      Good 'ole covert organizations (the U.S. has 18 of them in government) are very hard at work attempting to undermine our momentum. It is hoped that we respond as disappointed rats in a Skinner experiment, and stop trying. I think the powers that be have their work cut out for them; but that's what martial law, as far as the established power elite are concerned, is for. Will we have the courage to persist once that boom is lowered, once that other shoe has dropped? Most in here will, I believe.


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      • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

        Of course, even before less hearty researchers are discouraged, the more casual observer, the kind covert orgs managing information really like–the kind who believes most of what they see without thinking deeply, is going to grow increasingly misinformed by these progressively more ridiculous headlines and content.


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        • Kevin Kevin

          While what you state does occur in the general sense of issues and perception management, I would balance what you are saying by stating that my observations have been that the admin here digs through volumes of relevant data and in fact pulls out nuggets both relevant to the discussions that occur here and that seem to be intentionally buried or downplayed in the source media he derives it from.

          The fact is that there is an abundance of material designed entirely to maintain the official story and there is no clear indication here that this site is doing what you say but rather detailing data points that fall outside the script.

          People have to have discerning and critical minds in order to sort the pepper from the flyshit, and while this site may turn off some it is one of the rare sites on the net that combines various mediums, and allows for an open and public dialogue anyone can contribute to. It also links to other resources if your taste is different and you do not find what you seek. I recommend the site and have since the beginning as a gateway to better understanding, but make no mistake about it, the truth is illusive.


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      • Bobby1

        I'll say one thing, this forum has the most pro-nuclear propaganda in one place that I have seen. Of course, it is there to be knocked down… but seeing this crap all the time has to have an effect.


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  • it can travel in air, that Pu, as ultrafine dust
    and 1 year old news presented as astonishing find (not by ene but by msm)
    makes bitter feelings for the ones reading that BS


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    • Kevin Kevin

      This is why I pointed out in my post.

      We have had a whole bunch of discussion here on this issue. Ranging from one poster who is adamant that micro particulates from MOX is at the centre of a massive coverup driving shills on this site, to 'plutonium is to heavy to travel great distances.'

      Then this post saying it cannot vapourize and travel at all.

      We do know that depleted uranium from wars in the middle east have traveled great distances.

      The point is, there are facts and there is a whole lot of obfuscation.

      Highly respected journals publishing studies that seem to be blatantly manipulated to support the downplaying of these issues and couched in language that ensures it is supportive of the official story.

      I could go on and on.

      I said this in another post, but I think it bares repeating. This level of coverup is indicitive of, in my opinion, a very, very, very serious situation. It seems to me they may well being going through such great lengths because the reality of the matter could be far more horrifying than many of us here dare to imagine. (except the few who use ELE type language.)


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      • I don't think there's much point in covering up an ELE event. Say, a wayward comet the size of the moon heading our way. They might not tell us about it before it hit, but people out there would see it coming and sound an alarm. I doubt the powers that be would care to waste their last days on earth coordinating an MSM denial campaign.

        They want Fukushima over and well-buried asap because they have literally about 6 trillion dollars riding on the "Nuclear Renaissance" and they sure as hell don't plan to spend it on renewables. The industry is way too important as a cash cow and money laundering operation for high level mobsters (some in government, some in finance) to let mere peons and innocent children to stand in the way.


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        • Kevin Kevin

          Yes I completely agree.

          I laughed at the notion of an coordinated MSM misinformation campaign in light impending death and obviously agree with that notion.

          All I stated is that based on the lengths they have gone with respect to the misinformation campaign, I presume things are much much worse than many here have discussed, with the exception of the few who have talked about it being an ELE.

          I just wanted to be clear on that point. I am not saying it is an ELE, I am saying that it is much worse than many here may realize with the exception of those who purport it to be an ELE.

          IT was just a clarification not a declaration.

          I tend to think the same as you, they are protecting what was a multi trillion dollar renaissance. And positioning against what should be an end to that if people truly understood the scope and magnitude of the disaster.


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          • Kevin Kevin

            Whats more, is that currently nuclear power creates a mere 16% of total electricty produced world wide.

            It is not a stretch to assume that with fairly minor adjustments we could accomodate the complete withdrawl of all the nuclear production much quicker than it would take for them to decommission the plants.

            So rather than allowing them to continue with the renaissance, we should be demanding they hit the brakes and wind it down.

            IF we allow more builds, we will become increasingly dependent, they know that, and it would not surprise me if the recent approval in the US was based on many of these points we are discussing.


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            • It's even sillier than that. Once you factor in the amount of electricity each of these plants consume (from the grid) just to run the machinery, and you're talking nukes generating 8% or less of our actually consumable electricity. In the whole world. A concerted wind and solar program for site-generation in high consumption regions of the world could cover that plus in less than two years.

              Deal is, doing that would take about half the money these folks have riding on their 'renaissance' and they've absolutely no intention of sharing.


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              • Kevin Kevin

                Wow JoyB, 8% after you factor in just the power they consume and detract that away from output? That is frickin amazing! Great stat! Do you have any supporting links for that. I would love to work that in to a piece I am doing, which I had hoped to have done for the anniversary but at the rate I am going its gonna take a little longer!

                Thanks.

                That is mind blowing. 8%, we gotta finish these guys off.


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                • Oh, lordy! Someone here (I forget – Old Timer's disease) got me started on the idea of "Zero Net" a few weeks ago in a discussion about EDGs [Emergency Diesel Generators] and super battery packs for site blackouts, how much power those represent when supplying only for the primary emergency circulation pumps, ECCS and instrumentation (in a blackout situation the power plant end gets isolated and the heat exchange goes convection).

                  Takes up to 4 multi-megawatt EDGs each just to power that much (for the big PWR plants). A bit less than half plant rated power. Since I was going for Zero Net I also researched on-line average (percentage of plants actually running at any given time). Didn't get all the way to Zero Net, but did get to right about half. On average. Right now it's less – there are only 2 plants still running in Japan, for instance, and the Mark I's in Europe are mostly down due to Fukushima. So for last year, nukes hardly count.

                  The industry always presents such figures as if all plants are running at 100% rated power at all times, because the truth is they don't represent enough of earth's electrical supply to be more than a boil on Rush Limbaugh's… well, you know. Looks like their primary purpose is to supply each other with power to run, which justifies the entire scam to our world Nuclear Overlords… they get away with it.

                  I have a piece of paper around here somewhere that's got the details, didn't keep links (googled stuff) because I was so disappointed not to find Zero Net. Give me another couple cups of coffee and I might remember where it is… stay tuned…


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                • Plus, you have to bear in mind the actual original purpose of this mighty scam in order to get past the cognitive dissonance of the fact that they're almost entirely useless as well as being extremely dangerous.

                  No utility would EVER have gone nuclear if governments had not literally poured billions into them as subsidies (plus exemption from liability). There was $36 billion in Obama's 2012 budget just in guarantees for 4 'new' plants down south. The regular billions in annual subsidies are on top of that.

                  Commercial nukes were developed so the DOD could get more plutonium than it ever needed – remember, they managed all the reprocessing even when it was farmed out to folks like Kerr-McGee. Now it needs nukes to burn up the plutonium from the massive stockpiles of overkill bombs that have been taken out by treaty since the end of the good old Cold War. Hence: MOX. It's not and never really has been about electricity to power your refrigerator. That's just the gravy for the golden goose.

                  The scam is HUGE. It's always been HUGE. Now they want to make it HUGER. Nukes will never cure Global Warming (that would take hundreds coming on-line every week), there's not enough money in existence to accomplish that even if we were willing. Energy budgets are finite, nukes want it ALL and they don't provide anything worthwhile for it.

                  We absolutely need to be doing something else with humanity's collective wealth. That's where earth's abundant kinetic forces come in… §;o)


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      • Anthony Anthony

        Totally agree with your closing point Kevin.


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    • Pallas89juno Pallas89juno

      Dear Cat: Who generates the headlines to ENE'ers? Think about it.


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  • goathead goathead

    Hmmmmmm Something smells fishy with this report!! Radioactively Fishy!!! 1/10,000th of my ass!!


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  • PoorDaddy PoorDaddy

    Hmmmm is right. I'm thinkin that this piece by LA Times was written to counteract the potential and actual panic in Southern Cal from this posted here on March 6.

    http://enenews.com/controversy-after-govt-estimate-showed-40000-microsievert-thyroid-dose-california-infants-after-fukushima-very-high-doses-children-releasing-info-public

    Play it all down, shovel more shit, cover up the truth.
    Kill nukes before they Kill you.


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    • Laterlukemayb Laterlukemayb

      Just remember PoorDaddy, these guys are experts at making things fade away. I mean, do you hear about it anywhere at all except on the net in the alternative blogs or sites like Enenews.com. Don't hear about it on the street or at the corner store. Don't here about it when your getting gas or nothing. Same as it's always been, everyone's in a great big hurry going absolutely nowhere!


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    • Poor Daddy

      I think you are right-on about an effort to trivialize the dispersion.

      Notice there have been quite a few trivializing articles in the wake of release of the NRC transcripts?

      No accidental coincidence.

      James and Kevin

      Please stop quarreling.

      Both of you provide so many valuable comments.

      The scale of the cover-up is truly amazing and I think that, more than any other single piece of evidence, indicates that we are facing a truly horrendous disaster


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      • Kevin Kevin

        Majia,

        I agree.

        And am happy to cease and desist, which I have attempted in the past, even to the point where I thought it was resolved however accusations continue and, if as you say, the comments I sometimes make are valuable, than having them clouded as coming from "a paid shill" serves to undermine both the my credibility and that of the content in my posts. Which I find troubling, as I have no desire to exert the energy required to provide some with insight they may not have otherwised received only to be discredited by baseless innuendo.

        That said from now on I will leave it to readers to decide, as I am sure they would anyhow and cease defending myself against the false claims that I am a "Shill" or paid for my commentary.

        Thanks again and keep up the great work as your input is invaluable. It is of great benefit to us all to have a credible and qualified individual such as yourself lend their voice and skills in this struggle!


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    • Misitu

      Drop a comment in, call them out on a simple error of fact. This seems to have worked elsewhere. If they respond, remember to have your sources ready for the counter-rebuttal.

      They do have some neat faux logic tricks in the cabinet ready to hand so the simpler the response the better.


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  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    Being forced to live with these dangerous man-made poisons isn't right.


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    • Kevin Kevin

      Yeah, and in the case of many of them its not only you, but your kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids, their kids…… an d so on.

      Its a crime against humanity and its forseeable future.


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  • Steven Steven

    I am no longer open to debate about the nuclear issue. Call me one-eyed, but I can afford to be wrong and my children will still be safe – the pro-nuclear advocates can't say the same. If they like it so much they can go play with it, plenty laying around to be cleaned up from what I hear.


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  • dear jones

    Dale Klein, a former Nuclear Regulatory Commission chairman

    "Fukushima was no Chernobyl"
    [Klein is] co-author of a report on Fukushima for the American Nuclear Society. That report says the long-term health risks of the radioactive fallout probably would be minimal.

    Send this guy and he family to live in Fukushima for one year than I believe in that he is really believe it is safe. Although he is wrong.


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  • jec jec

    Lets see.."at Fukushima reactor irradiating plutonium"–note no comment on WHICH reactor? JUST one (1) reactor?? And were they supposed to be "irradiating plutonium" in those types of reactor(s)? Just saying..


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  • LISS CHARTS AND NOAH ARE SHOWING SIGNS OF A GLOBAL BELL RINGING…
    VIEW HERE:
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/operations/heliplots_gsn.php
    AND HERE:
    http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html Noah (geomagnetic storm).

    JAPAN WILL also but VERY LIKELY HAVE AN EQ. within 24 hours now as confirmed by data…

    THE REGION IS ACTIVE!!! HAWAII AND JAPAN ARE SHOWING MAGMA FLOW UNDER, THEIR SOIL WHICH IS AN INDICATION PRIOR TO AN EARTHQUAKE.

    THE EQ CAN BE 7.0 OR LARGER. AS Another large scale quake took place 2, and 4 and 6 hours after one after another. Each growing a 1.0 In magnitude from the rest!

    This is an addition to more CME impacts: (an m6) which is another large scale event in solar proportions…

    X-ray Solar Flares

    6-hr max: M6 03:53 UT Mar09
    24-hr: M6 03:53 UT Mar09
    explanation | more data
    As well as the current geomagnetic storm we are approaching!
    CHANCE OF FLARES: NOAA forecasters estimate a 40% chance of an X-class solar flare today from big sunspot AR1429. The sunspot is almost directly facing Earth, so any such eruptions should be geoeffective. Solar flare alerts: text, phone.

    Including the current:
    CME IMPACT: A widely-reported CME produced by an X5-flare from sunspot AR1429 hit our planet's magnetic field on March 8th. The impact was weaker than expected, producing only a mild geomagnetic storm. Power grids and other sun-sensitive technologies were unaffected. Update: As March 9th unfolds, conditions in the wake of the CME are becoming favorable for stronger geomagnetic storming. These auroras appeared over Faskrudsfjordur, Iceland:
    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/monitoring/operations/heliplots_gsn.php


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  • vital1

    Yes, there is a significant solar storm happening at present following directly on from one earlier in the week. Huge Proton flux in this one, Proton flux affects the earth's core.

    This site allows you to look at it in real time.

    http://www.n3kl.org/sun/noaa.html

    Also a reported 7.1 earthquake at Vanauta then downgraded to 6.7 at 7.09 pm. If you believe the downgrade.


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  • vital1

    Let the bastards go there and help with the clean up, if they think it's so safe!!


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  • Misitu

    The article discredits itself by repeating the citation of the tsunami as cause of meltdown when now even Tepco have published timings confirming quake not tsunami as prior cause.

    This discredits the whole article.

    I've taken the unusual step of registering for the purpose of adding comment. Commented as follows,

    "Errors of Fact
    Error of Fact 1, "Quake Not Tsunami"
    Tepco have already documented the timing of the Loss of Coolant accidents as being later than the quake and earlier than the tsunami.
    Error of Fact 2, "Partial Nuclear Meltdown"
    Tepco have already documented three full meltdowns with the possibility of reclassification to melt-through or even melt-out (except it's too scary to get near enough to find out where the melt is).

    It would be nice to see some up to date facts in this reporting."


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  • Toadmac

    The explosion was so massive that only small pieces of nuclear fuel were ejected, leading to speculation that a small leak had occurred inside a reactor. Some even speculated that small amounts of radiation could have been released after confirming there was a massive explosion from 4 reactors. There has also been speculation that it was not half as bad as Chernobyl even 1/10,000th(If you consider how small those pieces of nuclear fuel became after the explosions)……….
    Looks like our speculation of explosions at Fukushima may have been right all along. Glad they can confirm it. I speculated it may have been the safety feature of the toilets…….
    I am also speculating that long-term health risks of small pieces of radioactive fallout will be speculated to be minimal with 1/20,000th of possibility……

    Maybe we should stop speculating? (just a thought)

    Peace!!


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  • Misitu

    It is my (unschooled) understanding that radioactive decay must necessarily produce dust, gas, vapour, or liquid depending on the decay chain and timeline.

    Or exotic chemical compounds/structures like the polymers from salt water stuff we've had here recently.

    I've given up on the reassurances from authority. I am now convinced that they know what the range of worst case scenarios could be and that these are quite bad.

    Hence the coverups including the hasty one in the L A Times where it got two prime facts blatantly wrong.

    This presumably with the hope of avoiding "negative feelings" from the uneducated mass of voters "out there".

    However, haste is from the devil as the proverb has it. They are in a hurry, /they/ are panicking, they cannot stamp fast enough on the truths emerging from below like cockroaches.

    They might be on the run, although I haven't a clue how that might work out.


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    • Misitu

      I've come to a reasonable assessment of the Engels film and also of the interior shot of R2 by the second Quince robot. Needs a bit more time but might help with a second viewpoint on the news management issues we've suspected/observed.

      BRB
      M


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      • Misitu

        Engel's news item, I don't see a problem (comments on the original thread). Quince video, suspicions seem valid.. will be commenting further on ex-SKF blog as that was the original hook for my curiosity.


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  • datura17

    yeah, plutonium does not spread out, no, nope, no way, its too heavy, vaporizes at too high of a temperature, bla bla bla, hey l.a. times, i have a question! if it doesnt spread, then why is it spread all over the planet? does anyone remember linus pauling? he was instrumental in bringing the above ground tests to a stop, he won a peace prize for that-back when it meant something, exactly what information did he have that caused 'them' to listen?

    someone take that 'kony 2012' video that went viral the other day and apply that model video to this situation.


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  • bleep_hits_blades

    Anne, Yes, the 'bottom line' is that with that much plutonium out there, not to mention the other deadly radio-nuclides, this is off-the-charts serious – if not an ELE, then certainly in the ballpark.

    I am not a scientist but you really don't have to be to get the picture here, because it is just staggering. It seems that we are going to be seeing so much death that it will be hard to sweep it under the carpet, hide the situation by massaging/falsifying the statistics – we are all going to be confronted with the evidence; the leap in death and illness rates, birth defects, etc. is just going to be too huge.


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  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Excellent thread and excellent energy and proposed game plans.

    The reason this will not be an ELE circumstance is because there are only a few of us humans currently on this planet and this planet is very large. All 7 billion of u humans could fit into the state of Texas with a thousand square feet each and that pretty much says it all.

    The planet is empty in human life terms but not void of great misery and many diseases like cancer.

    Not all of us will catch a hot particle or even plant a tomato in a garden laced with plutonium or radiation contamination but sadly some us will. They will not know where or when they will get contaminated, but it will happen to many of us. In fact 50 percent of us for sure before we pass on will have some form of cancer diagnosis in our lifetimes. Sad but true.

    Now, if anymore Nuclear Power Plants go up in smoke, the odds of a total Earth ELE status type status continues to go up exponentially. Only took 60 years to get here and this is very bad for all life on this planet called Earth.

    Best to shut them all down now since the radiation contamination and radioactive isotopes are accumulative inside the biosphere and ecosystems.

    Meaning anymore disasters would be very bad for any of us currently present and for all future generations of any type species yet to be born.

    The Earth will reap what mankind has now sown on its surface and maybe that is what happened thousands of years ago to all the past civilizations that have suddenly disappeared.

    This generation of man must be wiser than those who are now gone.


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  • jec jec

    Since when is
    "a little plutonium in the form of particulate matter" NOT a problem? Little Plutonium-isnt PU very very toxic? And remind me again how long the 1/2 life is…??


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