Navy Officers on TV: “My body is falling apart” after Japan rescue mission, his right side “just didn’t work” — Another “can no longer use his legs” and unable to urinate — If 300 times normal radiation is OK, I don’t know what to tell you

Published: January 24th, 2014 at 12:39 pm ET
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106 comments


‘Consider This’, Jan. 23, 2014: Navy personnel say they’re experiencing mysterious symptoms, including hemorrhaging and cancer [after serving iduring the 3/11 rescue mission in and around Japan] Senior Chief Michael Sebourn was assigned to investigate radiation levels in the air and on American military aircraft […] After seeing at least 10 doctors and undergoing three MRIs and two ultrasounds, he still doesn’t know what’s wrong with him. […] Sebourn says he very suddenly lost 50 to 60 percent of the power in the right side of his body. This shocked him when he walked into the gym one day and could only do his workout on his left side – he says his right side just didn’t work. Sebourn also says his right arm is now an inch-and-a-half shorter than his left when he flexes – another mystery. Administrative Officer Steven Simmons was on the USS Ronald Reagan […] Simmons suddenly lost 20 to 25 pounds, started running fevers, getting night sweats and tremors, and his lymph nodes started to swell. He can no longer use his legs and spends all of his time in a wheelchair. His weakness has traveled up to his core and arms, and the signals between his brain and his bladder have failed. He uses a catheter every four hours.

Former U.S. Navy Officer Michael Sebourn: “As for the people who are saying those levels weren’t very high, normal background radiation, I call bogus to that, because I was the man […] taking the background levels […] if you think 300 times higher than a normal day’s radiation level is fine, than I don’t know what to tell you. […] What I’m looking for in the suit is a medical fund, money put aside for a medical fund, some place for all 70,000 people – [Department of Defense] civilians, family members, service members that were exposed to this […] to make sure that we’re taken care of down the road when we need it. […] My body is falling apart.”

Former U.S. Navy Officer Steven Simmons: “I don’t understand how you can place a ship the size of a carrier into a nuclear plume for over five hours, suck up contaminants into the water system of the ship, and expect there to be no harm whatsoever to the human life”

U.S. government statement: “After extensive environmental monitoring and analysis, it has been determined that none of the nearly 70,000 members of the [Department of Defense]-affiliated population … are known to have been exposed to radiation at levels associated with adverse medical conditions.”

Video from the broadcast may soon be available here

Published: January 24th, 2014 at 12:39 pm ET
By

106 comments

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106 comments to Navy Officers on TV: “My body is falling apart” after Japan rescue mission, his right side “just didn’t work” — Another “can no longer use his legs” and unable to urinate — If 300 times normal radiation is OK, I don’t know what to tell you

  • Nick

    "In a statement announcing the decision, officials emphasized that the maximum potential radiation dose received by anyone aboard a ship that passed through the area was less than the radiation exposure received from about a month of exposure to natural background radiation from sources such as rocks, soil and the sun.
    http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=63145

    300 times background = a month of "normal"?

    It doesn't work that way. Dose is dose is dose.

    Clearly the DoD is in denial.

    • AirSepTech AirSepTech

      I am no expert, but they may be correct. We just need to understand.

      You take your beach towel, lay it out in Death Valley.
      Lay down with the rocks, soil, and sun.
      Stay there butt naked for 24/7/30. Turn often for even exposure.

      WA LA—-SAME EXPOSURE, maybe, I'm no expert.

      They just failed to give the result.

      If I expressed my true feelings of this issue, they would put me behind bars.

    • AlexfromNB

      If what the courageous sailors claim is true, they've not been treated fairly from the beginning by the navy, not to mention their families. We must have morons running the show. Who in their right mind would subject thousands of US Naval personnel and tens of billions of dollars in military assets to a mission where they could be put in a serious health danger or death? This wasn't a war situation and while I sympathize deeply with the residents of Fukushima, it's their government and people who should have come to their aid directly, not our people before the worst of the danger had passed. Given the complexity of the USS Reagan, its aircraft and support ships, are any of these assets safe for our sailors given the amount of high amounts of radioactive contamination they were exposed? Our hearts to out to our service members and their families and we'll keep you in our prayers.

      • AirSepTech AirSepTech

        AlexfromNB–Words of Wisdom

        I apologize for going on about this, but it burns a hole in me.

        A Military crime is what this is.

        A Courts Marshall is needed, there are dozens of serious charges.
        There are dozens of people responsible. Damn.

        U.S. government statement: Believing us can be hazardous to your health.

        • gordon

          It's not a crime.

          The Reagan is tooled to fight wars. It, like all military systems, has nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare capabilities. Capabilities are like, detection, shielding, and countermeasures. Even some disposable infantry guy has gear for all three, including a drug that counters nerve agent inhalation/absorption.

          That ship, there are protocols in case of nuclear fallout for sure. The idea is that the ship can be in fallout, but still launch weapons and do its thing. But an order has to be given…

          It's not a crime, it's just that the guy couldn't get his head around what was going on and he didn't want to make a rash move.

          • We Not They Finally

            The military knowingly doing this to thousands of their own people and then walking away IS A CRIME BIG TIME. You want legalities? What kind of world do you live in MORALLY?? You're an embarrassment.

          • Q1988 Q1988

            The measures you point out are made to reduce the affects of radiation. They are not fully tested and not 100% effective. When it comes down to it each one of us is responsible for his own health and welfare and if that means to refuse an order to walk into harms way then contract or not I spend my time in the brig.

        • utahruss utahruss

          Sorry guys but those Sailors along with all of the personnel in any of the other branches of the UNITED STATES military (because the United States of America DOES NOT have military branches of any kind outside of the State Militias/National Guard)are under VOLUNTARY COMMERCIAL CONTRACT with the UNITED STATES (notice once again no 'OF America')and some of the terms of the CONTRACT prevent them from bringing an action for damages, and even if they could, they would be limited to $10,000.00 MAXIMUM as Codified at 28 USC 145 and 1346

          One of the primary causes of situations like Fukushima is the failure to understand the True Nature of the Reality

          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/28/1345.html

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_RRctdIkrR0

        • I know for a fact the DOD is keeping this from their own physicians treating these kids. 2 friends of mine work for the Veterans hospital as physicians and they have not been told anything about their exposure during Tomodachi. When they specifically asked for information they were told it was 'nothing you need to concern yourself with…" even though they are directly involved in the care of these patients. It's disgusting.

    • jec jec

      Just PRAY there is documentation of the 300 times background level on the USS Reagan. Likely the story will be the dosimeters were not adequate or 'broken.' Without documentation..there is nothing to say, and the story line will be 'no dangerous' levels. In the OT report on the situation of Fukushima radation, the US government took Japan and TEPCO data as provided.since dosimeters were not 'available..suitable'. And DoD assessment methods and dose estimates were independently reviewed by the National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP). Along with plume models. Not sure if the data was cooked on the US side..but certainly the plume models used Japanese provided data..and it seems as if Japan/TEPCO did provide invalid information not to cause 'panic.' Or read that as 'protect thy buns.'

      • gordon

        The Reagan has dual nuclear reactors and so the vessel has extensive sensor systems that log. Congress is going through the process of getting that data. It's my feeling that the Reagan could be holding the most detailed information about what was in the initial plume that exists.

        • Q1988 Q1988

          I understand that those radiation sensors went full scale under the plume of fukushima's fall out. There may be qualitative evidence and that will be made questionable in court as to the ability of the radiation meters to detect anything after going off scale.
          They will pay off the dependents with an undisclosed amount, sealed of course and sign up an new crew to man the Ray gun

          • gordon

            I don't think anything went "off scale". That would have triggered a response where the NBC gear would have come out. Also, the reactors running on the ship are like any other reactors. It's my understanding that if instrumentation on running reactors shows massive readings they have to scram. The engineers, having no idea where all the energy is coming from, would want to shut down the reactions they have control over.

            Then, I'm not an expert or anything. Just using common sense.

    • OldFool

      Disappointing. A witch-doctor in the forests of Papua New Guinea, armed with common-sense and a good medical encyclopedia, could probably have accurately diagnosed the primary cancer within three days. He would probably also have had a better bedside manner and charged a much smaller fee. The five most common radiation-induced primary cancers are thyroid cancer, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, acute lymphoblastic leukemia, acute myeloid leukemia, and chronic myeloid leukemia. In addition, breathing any hot particles would likely cause lung cancer or a cancer in some other part of the airway. The secondary cancers and diseases might be tougher to diagnose.

      • Those differ from Plutonium induced cancers however…the aerosolized MOX fuel. Which is even worse biologically than Pu238, but this gives you an idea:

        Radiation pneumonitis was observed among the dogs with the highest ILBs. Deaths from radiation pneumonitis occurred from 1.5 to 5.4 years after exposure. Tumors of the lung, skeleton and liver occurred beginning at about 3 years after exposure. Bone tumors found in 93 dogs were the most common cause of death. Lung tumors found in 46 dogs were the second most common cause of death. Liver tumors, which were found in 20 dogs but were the cause of death in only two dogs, occurred later than the tumors in bone and lung. Tumors in these three organs often occurred in the same animal and were competing causes of death…

        These findings in dogs suggest that similar dose-related biological effects could be expected in humans accidentally exposed to 238PuO2.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8927705

        • artika rama

          eyechix I dont understand how you think those are different cancers from mox fuel induced ones .
          COuld you explain this ? "Those differ from Plutonium induced cancers however…the aerosolized MOX fuel. Which is even worse biologically than Pu238"'
          in which way ?
          Radiation pneumonitis is not cancer , its an inflamation .

    • Arizonan Arizonan

      The DoD in denial! What's new? Look how they responded to atomic vets and Agent Orange vets and depleted uranium vets…..Historically speaking, they cannot be trusted to care for the lives of the men and women they put in harm's way. These lives have zero long-term value after enlistment, even if enlistment takes place for a relatively short period of time. Some of these internalized particles have biological half lives inside bodies of 5-10-50-100 and after death….+Pu239, 29,000 years +U238, 4.5 billion years……

  • Nick

    here are some of the toxins in that nuclear plume…

    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/603220/transuranium-element/81184/Synthesis-of-transuranium-elements
    Nuclear properties of selected transuranium element isotopes
    specific activity
    name and mass principal decay mode half-life disintegrations per minute per microgram watts per gram*
    neptunium-237 alpha 2.14(106) years 1,565 2.07(10−5)
    plutonium-238 alpha 87.74 years 3.8(107) 0.570
    plutonium-239 alpha 24,110 years 138,000 1.91
    (10−3)**
    plutonium-242 alpha 375,000 years 8,730 1.13(10−4)
    plutonium-244 alpha 8.00(107) years 39.1 4.93(10−7)
    americium-241 alpha 432.6 years 7.6(106) 0.114
    americium-243 alpha 7,370 years 44,000 6.45(10−3)
    curium-242 alpha 162.8 days 7.4(109) 122
    curium-244 alpha 18.1 years 1.80(108) 2.83
    curium-248 alpha 348,000 years 9,400 5.32(10−4)
    berkelium-249 beta (minus) 330 days 3.6(109) 0.358
    californium-249 alpha 351 years 9.1(106) 0.152
    californium-252 alpha 2.645 years 1.2(109) 39
    einsteinium-253 alpha 20.47 days 5.6(1010) 1,000

    none of these are "natural"

  • Ontological Ontological

    To do anything whatsoever would admit there is a problem. Easyer to raise the laws defining the limits to Ludacris, then admit there was "low level" exposure after the fact. Prison is not even good enough punishment for those taking bribes/profiting. A nice Nazi style gas chamber perhaps.

  • SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!!

    Combat Radiation Ignorance, People. Help Get The Rad Word Out!

    To all visitors and the community of ENENews, the following Japan Radiation Citizen Memos are designed to be widely shared everywhere in your local and internet communities. All citizens NEED to know about Fukushima. Find bulletin boards in your local area, post on social websites. Tell the People.

    Japan Radiation Memo to All Citizens PDF
    http://tinyurl.com/Japan-Radiation-Citizens-Memo

    Japan Radiation Memo in JPEG (for social media upload)
    http://tinyurl.com/Japan-Radiation-Memo-JPEG

    Vital1's Radiation Memo to Parents
    http://technologypals.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/lifesaver.pdf

    Doesn't take much. A printer. Scissors. Thumbtacks. For some,
    only a computer. And the simple motivation to share your care.

    It is also requested that everyone who can, please "like" and "share" ENENews and it's headlines throughout your use of social media. https://www.facebook.com/ENENEWS

    Time to test our "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" to the meddle

    the combat rad forum will help protect individuals
    and get the rad word out to the People.

    boots on the ground work. volunteers needed
    http://enenews.com/forum-best-practices-combating-effects-radiation/comment-page-12#comment-439105

  • dka

    These guys still don't know the difference between inhaling-ingesting radionuclides and being exposed to external radiation.
    He body must be full of these particles destroying him from the inside. I also suspect he his getting more than 300x normal exposure.

    • J.

      A few years ago I read about a US Army soldier who was sick, suspected that DU from his service in Iraq was the cause, and was told by the VA that there's no chance of that being true. A newspaper in New York where he lived (the NY Post I think) was doing a series about DU damage, and paid for this man to have a series of (rather expensive) blood tests from a special laboratory. The results: high levels of uranium in his body. The same kind of lying by the DOD may be going on now.

      • gordon

        When you're tested for uranium it's a urine test.

        • Sickputer

          And yet a urine test is not the only medical tool to detect depleted uranium poisoning:

          "It is important to note that there is no scientific evidence which supports the US Veteran Administration claim that the insoluble uranium to which the Gulf War Veterans were exposed will be primarily a renal chemical toxicant. Yet this is the criteria which the VA proposes for attributing any health problems of the Veteran to depleted uranium. Intermediate and chronic exposure duration to insoluble uranium is regulated in the US by its radiological property. The slow excretion rate of the uranium oxide allows for some kidney and tubule repair and regeneration. Moreover, because of the long biological half life, much of the uranium is still being stored in the body and has not yet passed through the kidneys."

          http://www.ccnr.org/du_hague.html

          • gordon

            I'm just talking about what happens when you're a patient. It's better than nothing, which is what you get anywhere other than the VA.

          • Arizonan Arizonan

            Apparent biological half-life of inhaled insoluble DU-238: 20 years, irradiating everything the particles come in contact with: from kings, smallest particles pass lung-blood barrier, circulate in blood, causing the neurological & eye problems we have seen in the DU vets worldwide and in both testing and bombed populations. Ongoing kidney damage. Looks like only some of the first-born of most contaminated were the most severely affected by outright deformities, as at Chernobyl. We don't know about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, because they did not begin to collect data until 1950. However, long-term genetic instability is inevitable, as are immune system problems, cancers, and so on. Most of the radiological team that went in to recover friendly-fire-destroyed tanks are dead; too much fine black dust, not just made up of concentrated U238, but apparently also some reprocessed transuranic wastes as well, but the latter only in really extremely minute quantities, whatever that means. VA not to be trusted on DU issue. But heavy-metal chelation should help, if done carefully.

    • Arizonan Arizonan

      Yes, isn't it odd? You would think the most basic fact of health physics – that there are differences between internal and external exposures – would be explained in words of one syllable to all first-year soldiers. Wouldn't you think? I think that should be part of basic training. Everyone should get a required course in radiology and health physics before they graduate from high school! But NOT one taught by the Health Physics Society, which is in the back pocket of the nuclear industry. One which compares the ECRR and ICRP models in historical context, and compares these models with actual data from actual long-term well-designed health studies post-exposure. Well, why re-invent the wheel? We already know the ECRR model will win, when fairly compared to what the evidence from hundreds of prior studies actually tell us. None of those studies, by the way, were carried out by the DoD or the DOE, who are as trustworthily in bed with multinational billionaires as are the WHO and the IAEA. If these people would just treat themselves to some actual study, more of them might have to come clean, or at least resign with honor. Or just do as they have been doing since Alice Stewart published her evidence in 1959 – just turn a blind eye and attack the scientist. We get weaker with each repeated exposure since 1945….we must stop them. We must force the UN to intervene, and require all member countries to contribute to current containment.

  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

    Comment from the first article and not unique among other forum comments:
    "As a former haz waste manager, I was also struck by the attempt to decontaminate wearing permeable clothing and no respiratory protection. This situation would require level B at the very minimum."

    The fact that they're lying, and they must know we know they're lying, and they don't care, should be the most disturbing part about all this. THEY. DON'T. CARE. The END will not come from contamination, it will come from THEM.

  • dka

    I am surprised the navy does not take him into special care to study the effects of radiation, as if it didn't matter.
    Really bad.

    • gordon

      They are. What's happening is that a collection of lawyers have been faster to respond to the issue than the military complex. The lawyers organizing lawsuits against TEPCO are causing delays in the inevitable retarded way the VA operates.

      The lawyers need to be stopped. Suing TEPCO isn't going to help anyone, other than lawyers.

      • We Not They Finally

        gordon, who ARE you? Where did you come from? You haven't said one humane or compassionate thing since you showed up. Please don't stick around. The rest of us actually CARE, and shame on you for NOT.

        • gordon

          I'm Gordon Cornelius, lowly technician. I live in New Hampshire doing a job different from the last job I had. My employment history is filled with a variety of things, some applicable to the mess that's going on in Japan.

          I've been around this site for quite some time, but only post when there's something relevant to my own experiences. Given the level of interest I have in the situation at the plant, I'll stick around until I have something better to do.

          • flatsville

            gordon, The registry for those affected by Opetation Tomadachi was opened and then shut down.

            This battle will be worse than Agent Orange.

            And you're obviously unawarw that vet sued Dow and Monsanto with the help of…gasp…Lawyers…and won an out of court settlement.

            You may want to do some homework on AO to understand how getting a registry established is only the first step in the process for receiving benefits and how civil law suits play a part in this.

            • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

              This battle?? No no, THESE battles. Registry? How about a world registry? Nope, not in this life time. Agent orange?? That was then, this is now. Everything is locked up behind secrecy laws now. And now is much much worse than any of us can imagine. 9/11 changed everything. And the only solution to this mess is to undo 9/11. Got a time machine?

              • flatsville

                SkyeWar, we are talking about a specific registry for US military vets which may or not form the basis for future governmental medical and financial benefits compensation.

                You are welcome to start your own "World Registry."

                Agent Orange isn't "then" v. "now." It is on-going…much like radioactive contamination in some respects.

                On a similar note, there is dioxin in US surface waterways and now aquifers because it was never properly clean-up by the EPA in the past. It's down in the bedrock in some areas aft 40-50 years and short of blasting, we'll never get it out.

            • flatsville

              No Tomadachi here:

              http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/benefit-details/313

              And why you would trust the military/VA do to the "right thing" after shutting down a registry is beyond me. The registry was closed before any attorney filed a civil suit in behalf of the USRR sailors. Lwyers are not getting in the way of anything. If the military/VA wants to reopen the registry, it is independent of any court ordered or out of court settlement a sailor may receive…just as it was with AO.

      • clamshellernh clamshellernh

        It sure has brought it to the public light however , whatever it takes I say

      • artika rama

        gordon What is your suggestion that they would do ? What other options do they have . I am asking just to get your opinion , not suggesting anything , cause if i would put myself in their shoes , i think i would try to fight back anyway i can .

        • gordon

          The individuals that are sick have to get onto a registry, in their case something like the ionizing radiation survey. They have to start through the VA while that organization figures out what is going on and decides what to do. While it is true that some will simply die during the process, it is still the best course of action at first.

          I say again, getting involved with a bunch of lawyers suing a utility in another country is not going to do anything for their health. Yes, there's the public spotlight benefit, but I would question the value of public awareness in the first place.

          I have zero faith in the public, possibly just a personal problem.

          • artika rama

            gordon Thanks for your honest reply , i dont agree with you but i understand your point of view,,everyone entitled to their opinion .
            PS ; You dont have to give any personal info to anyone ,, everyone can log in and give their opinion anonymously.
            peace 🙂

            • gordon

              My last name isn't all that personal; lots of people know it. Besides, given the situation at Fukushima One, I'd rather see some action instead of sitting around writing on a blog about how hopeless it is, how everyone's evil, etc, etc, etc…

              I believe in choosing a course of action and doing it, no matter what the problem. I want to see something done, I have my ideas of what that will look like, I want to be a part of it, so this is who I am and I welcome any dialogue with anyone that can help in any way.

              • artika rama

                gordon I like your attitude , i would also like to see more people trying to "DEAL " with the situation instead of just feeling sorry for themselves. Fukushima did not end and i think it has the potential of getting much worse than it is right now ,, and everyone is just watching it,, not doing anything . Its insane.

                ABout using your name ; All i am saying is , just because someone asked you you dont have to give your info ,, you never know who is asking and what they can do with it ,,they shouldnt be asking ,, they have no right to ask ,, but in any case , better be safe right ?

                • gordon

                  Again, something has to be done. Rather than go back and forth over being a troll, this is my name, what I want to see happen, etc. I'm tooled to deal with lunatics.

                  I think that at the moment there's just two crowds. There's the "it's no big deal" types. They're just not being realistic, maybe they have use if they're allowed time to process the emotional side of what's really going on here. Then there's the "shut them down now" group. I think the later is actually worse than the former.

                  I'm looking to see a third crowd come up. These would be "this is really fucking bad and we need to emulate what the Russians did at Chernobyl and then sustain the effort after getting the sarcophagus up while at the same getting some epidemiology going along with everything else we have".

                  So, there we are.

                  • artika rama

                    gordon thunbs plus .
                    Its all fine no big thing types are mostly in denial IMO and too sacred to admit somethingnterrible would disturbg there comfortable lives ,, people dont like that .
                    SHut them down right away people are not realistic at all , there is no way the world can afford that . Shutting down all nuke plants would mean total bankruptcy of many developed countries and chaos and who knows what .

                    The third group is evolving slowly IMO . Maybe not exactly as you put it ,, but little by little people are getting SOME info here and there and more and more people are beginning to see that nuclear is not as clean as it was supposed to be.

                    I think in time both extremes will die off slowly and there will be a more logical more realistic group with a more constructive approach .

                    I dont expect to see any REAL steps taken soon though ,, and considering many developing countries are already making plans to get on the nuclear train , it doesnt seem we have seen the end of it .
                    Unfortunatley we will see more fukus and more chernobyls before we can see some serious change .
                    I just hope it wont be too late then .

                    • gordon

                      In 1988 I was in the 1st Infantry. The division had a REFORGER mission which means that we were set up to fight Russians in Germany. In '89 we started training at the NTC, which is for desert warfare. Then we trained at Ft. Hood, more desert stuff related to the specific equipment of my battalion. Then in '90, Iraq invaded Kuwait and we staged in Saudi Arabia, entirely prepared.

                      In other words: that war was in the works for a couple years before it happened because that's how long it takes to equip multiple divisions for a new mission. Nobody noticed then and today very few understand what actually went down.

                      I give 75% probability that what I want is in the works, taking a couple years, and now about two and a half years in. So while you think that nothing will be done, you should prepare for a pleasant surprise.

                    • artika rama

                      gordon I hope you r right .
                      I am sceptical though cause there is a lot of money involved ,, its a huge industry ,, i dont think they will be willing to step aside easily and let their profits disappear.

                      But lets say they did ,, even then ,, on one hand you have greens totally against fossil fuels because of global warming etc ,so dont plan switching to oil and coal : , on the other governments worried about the economical costs of shutting down nuke industry . so political will isnt there .

                      IMO even if they would decide to shut down the nuke plants today and switch to renewable energy sources ,, it will take decades to do it , to build all the infrastructure , solar farms , wind farms etc

                      I think a few developed countries , who can afford it will eventually make the switch but i dont expect developing countries to follow the same examples .

                      SO , althoguh i believe slowly switching to renewable e and closing down nuke plants one by one as they are replaced by alternatives is the way to go ,, financially ,, politically ,, socially its a huge problem ,, and these are not going to be fixed overnight IMO.

                      As we see more and more nuke plants being built ,, the existing ones getting older ,, its inevitable that we will start seeing these kinds of accidents more and more often.
                      I wish i am wrong and people start thinking conciously about what we are dealing with here and what kind of future/problems we are going to leave for the future .
                      I wish you are right…

                  • Arizonan Arizonan

                    Sorry, what's wrong with the "shut them all down now" approach? Seems perfectly rational to me.

                    • artika rama

                      arizonan I dont think they can keep the economy running without the nuke plants in many countries if you would shut them all down right away . I think we should first stop building new ones and as we switch to new technologies we would start shutting them down one by one.
                      Cant be done in an instant IMO .

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture

    HORRIBLE NUCLEAR RADIATION . . .

    Man made, unwanted, we don't want it, get rid of it.

    • artika rama

      thebigpicture Its horrible and its getting worse everyday tbp . I would be more than happy to see they could just stop the continuos leakage from those plants ,, but they couldnt even fix that .

  • Very sad the reality of war. Not war really but war protocol that dictates not to panic the working soldier or navy personal. They simply do their duty. Do or die. My hats off to all the brave humans who get caught up in the machinations of evil men.

  • zogerke zogerke

    Same denial as after use of agent orange. Same denial as after gulg war and exposure to DU and burning contaminants,oil, biological weapons. same denial. lawyers, public speak out, mass media,
    . Its got to happen.

  • zogerke zogerke

    Gulf war not glug war!

  • jec jec

    Agent Orange health issues are now recognized by the VA! Let see..from the 60s to today..is how many years?

  • J.

    It's surprising to me that no independent laboratory has come forward to offer diagnostic expertise to these veterans. They deserve it and they need it. It seems to me that if internal emitters are causing illness, there must be various diagnostic techniques that could take this whole discussion out of the realm of conjecture and into the realm of forensic medicine. Does the forum here have any MDs or diagnostic technicians. who can weigh in on this? Odd that by now the lawyer pressing this case has not put forward to the public some forensic evidence from independent laboratories. I wonder whether there is any hard diagnostic data.

    • gordon

      The diagnostics you speak of are resident to the industry its self. Or in other words: the people that contaminate a person with radioactive isotopes are also the people tooled up to treat resulting medical problems.

      Independent anything is not called for. These people need to be returned to Navy or VA medical facilities that are equipped and staffed appropriately.

      • zogerke zogerke

        Will they be helped by VA doctors?

        • gordon

          I myself have found the VA to be helpful. What will happen for these guys is entirely up in the air. Though to me it looks favorable because there's already a registry.

          The situation with the Reagan is better understood by the military than most people think. The ship spent a year recovering from the event. While public discussion about it seems to be the usual bullshit, the decontamination work and immediate inclusion of registry indicates that there is a realistic response happening behind the bullshit.

          So far as the VA… typically there's a spectrum of opinions on the institution. I think that the difference in opinion has a couple roots, the most obvious being the status of individuals that approach the VA.

          People that were in a war, they're typically treated differently than people that were not. The Reagan people may be experiencing difficulty as the cause of their problems was not during a war. My personal opinion is that the VA is not run by morons and that over time the Reagan people, and those added to the list in the future as this problem grows, they'll be treated as if they were in a war.

          But like I'm sayin'… there's more hope at the VA than there is in some class action suit.

          • artika rama

            gordon How about the people who are still on that ship ,, are they infromed ? do they know about the possible radioactavitiy exposure ? I cant think of how they could decontaminate a ship like USS R Reagon but is there any info about that ? Is that even possible ?

            • gordon

              The enlisted people on the ship, and this is speculation, are probably in two groups. Typical enlisted people do not know. They're interested in money, getting laid, and otherwise having fun. These are guys that are not very smart in the first place and are there for a few possible reasons (a job, college money, didn't know what else to do, wanted to kill people, etc.). Then a portion of enlisted do know, but that would be a small slice of them. These would be the more intelligent guys that are there because they want to serve, have more of a plan for their future, and are naturally curious about things.

              Officers on board, they know.

              Decontamination of the vessel, what was done exactly, is not a public matter. All I know is that the operation was very different from any standard operating procedure, improvised if I may. I do know that a lot of the crew were trained, that those involved did some learning. How effective was it? Good question.

              Though… I think that this makes the Reagan and its support ships a primary candidate to get back into fight with respect to the plant. They're experienced now.

              • artika rama

                gordon I dont know how much they can decontaminate a huge ship like uss RR ,,but hopefully they are keeping an eye on the radiation levels otherwise more people will be affected and they have the right to know about it.
                I am not so sure if they are planning another fight with fukushima ,, i think fight is over and fukushima won big time .. there is not much to do anymore IMO .
                If they can stop the leakages and stabilize those buildings enough to withstand a strong erathquake they have done a great job ,, but honestly i dont even see that happening .

                • gordon

                  The radioactive isotopes, some at least, bond chemically with metal over time. It's possible they were able to get to work before that became the reality. I don't think they could operate the ship if decontamination was not successful.

                  Remember, there's two reactors on the ship. Reactors can't run if there's a lot of noise. Also, there's probably nuclear weapons on the ship, mandating extensive monitoring. Finally, a lot of the weapons on the ship employ DU, so that's monitored as well.

                  Moreover, the ship is designed to participate in a nuclear war. It's set up to deal with fallout so that it can continue to launch weapons at the enemy. Again, lots of monitoring along the lines of the usual NBC countermeasures.

                  If I were calling the shots, I would get all the young people off the boat, keep it to 35 and up, with no women. I would also try to keep the crew limited to people without dependents.

                  • artika rama

                    gordon I know , thats the problem ,, those are all young sailors right ?,, and IMO they need to know if the ship is contaminated .
                    I am sure they have sensors everywhere on the ship , on the planes helis etc but does anyone know/ report what those meters are measuring ?
                    I mean they had the exact same meters when the ship was almost in the fukushima harbour right ,, but nothing stopped them putting all those people at risk .
                    ABout the workings of a nuclear power engine and all that ,, i didnt expect the levels to be that high anyway ,, much lower to interfere with the workings of it , or any other machinery , but nevertheless if the sailors are on that ship for long periods ( it seems sometimes can take up to 6 months ) they will definitely suffer some damage .
                    The whole ship being metal and full of complicated machinery i cant even imagine how they could decontaminate it ,, maybe they can just clean decontaminte the most exposed parts or so , but most of the ship will still be radioactive .
                    ANyway ,, i am just guessing , nothing more ,, have no reliable info , but all i am saying is ,, if i was one of those sailors on that ship i would like to know what kind of radiation levels we are talking about, you know.
                    It cannot be all "clean" ,,thats not possible IMO .

                    • gordon

                      This is the thing about being in the military… you're doing something where you life could end quickly, or it might end a bit before you would like, later down the road. That is what you are for. People have always been confused about this, still are.

                      Still, that's what it's about. You get wasted so other people live long and happy lives, fat if they like.

                      Notification… you have to think about what it's like managing a slew of idiots that are twenty or thirty points lower in IQ than yourself. It's difficult to keep them wearing earplugs and respirators when they should, working around engines or applying paint that's got toxic properties. Talk to them about internal exposure vs. shine? Their future? Is such a conversation possible with typical idiots?

                      This is a secondary reason for cutting people in their twenties out of the picture completely, the first being that they are shaving time off their lives.

                      That plant is going to kill a lot of people. The question is: who's it going to be? I say it falls to guys like me so that retards and children can go on checking facebook and sniffing each others' asses. I have faith that one day something good might come from them, so I'll throw ten years to the wind. It sucks, but that's the way it is. It's always been like this.

                    • artika rama

                      gordon wel said , fuku is going to kill many for the next xxxxx years . Will keep killing long after we are gone .
                      It is also going to cause a lot of disease , pain and suffering to many people who will not even know why they are sick . That is even worse than getting killed IMO .

                      i dont even worry about myself but the more about what we are doing to the whole planet . We are leaving a radioactive planet to the future generations ,,, contaminated for thousands of years ,, and there is nothing they can do about it ,, that s beyond bad beyond stupid ,, beyond evil ,, . Thats basically who we are ,, how we will be remembered .
                      Its madness on an extreme level .

                  • Arizonan Arizonan

                    What, so that some of those 35 year-old men can get cancer by age 60 or 70, instead of living out their lives with grandchildren, etc, until their 90s? What's wrong with just mothballing the damn ship? DoD wastes plenty of money, storing the ship safely and away from humans would save us all money in the long run.

                    Something must be done at Fukushima, or the levels of radionuclides in the oceans will just continue to build forever. This is not acceptable.

              • zogerke zogerke

                @gordon appreciate your candor. Interesting to read your perspective.
                what do you mean by this? <<Though… I think that this makes the Reagan and its support ships a primary candidate to get back into fight with respect to the plant. They're experienced now.>>

                What do you mean by "get back into the fight?"

                • zogerke zogerke

                  @ gordon : Here is my disagreement– regarding training people with low IQs….This is through compassionate and a different political analytic:
                  I have found that when offering training in a low-literacy format, with highly visual and participatory classes, training is effective and makes a difference.
                  Training can be carefully crafted to teach about occupational hazards in an effective to people with low IQs or just people with low immaturity or just people with low education. BUT it requires giving a shit about the people you are teaching and not thinking of them as a lost cause. AND I appreciate your suggesting – in the future- all youngsters and females stay off the boat in order to control damage to a different cohort.

                  • gordon

                    Well, it's possible to be gentle teaching dipshits, but in this case nobody should be asked to go through that. Dipshits just stay far away where they can continue being dipshits. The quality of this work is going to be affected by the lowest denominator, know what I mean?

                  • zogerke zogerke

                    well, no. banning women only supports discriminatory practices. And sperm and testes get damaged just as ovaries and eggs do. SO I would rather make a rule that folks work who clearly do not want kids, are told the dangers , and make their choice. But that isn't how it works, is it

                    • gordon

                      Well, I would just order no women. Let them have parades in Berkley. Again, we can be polite about it, but no retard, dipshit, morons fucking up the mission.

                    • Arizonan Arizonan

                      Women will get one-third more cancers than men at the same age and radiation dose. See John Gofman.

                • gordon

                  Fukushima, there's atmospheric release that has to be contained. They need something like New Safe Confinement that's being built at Chernobyl. Yes, there's the cores, the water, and everything else that won't be affected by NSC-like structure, but NSC-like structure has to be built. It will be large.

                  To do it, the engineers will look to the NSC engineering, the product for fukushima will look kind of similar. Two scientists coming to the same conclusion, that sort of thing. And so, two rails have to be built for the structure to slide on, one in the ocean. Right there, you need the Navy for heavy transport and power to make the cement. Not necessarily the Reagan, but I would get a reactor on a military ship in the harbor or in a new harbor near by. Nobody will be counting on the Japanese grid.

                  Also, when they decide to go, Japan may not want to cooperate. Possibly the JSDF will have to be put down. Again, Navy. The land forces there are legacy from world war 2, so that will all change. Ships can move around. Them staging without mobile nukes, I don't see them doing that.

                  You know, the military, if they do it, they're not going to be setting up solar and wind farms.

                  • zogerke zogerke

                    @gordon, pardon, can you translate this into non-military language and acronyms? not sure what you are trying to describe/say..

                    <<Also, when they decide to go, Japan may not want to cooperate. Possibly the JSDF will have to be put down. Again, Navy. The land forces there are legacy from world war 2, so that will all change. Ships can move around. Them staging without mobile nukes, I don't see them doing that.

                    You know, the military, if they do it, they're not going to be setting up solar and wind farms.>>

                    • gordon

                      I'm saying that Japan might see the whole things as a threat to their tax base, the politicians and parallel gangs. They may resist U.S. military entry, which means they start moving their military around, which is the Japanese Self Defense Forces. In that case, those forces will have to be neutralized with weapons. Given that Japan is an island, the Navy will launch any initial strike.

                      And since the Reagan's already been there, they would be the prime candidate for round two.

                    • Arizonan Arizonan

                      Gordon, you are fantasizing that somehow daddy navy and daddy calvary is going to come to your rescue. This is not a job for the US military. It is a job for the United Nations, with the corporation of and in full respect for Japanese sovereignty. It is the only civilized way to proceed.

  • eatliesndie eatliesndie

    some Chernobyl liqiudators have similar health issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNc4MvI2s08

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    VA doctors better be as good as those that I have seen work on patients when I was in there, many good docs & nurses but bad people pushing the paper & taking phone calls!Replace the slackers & get rid of fools in congress who have broke their promises to every VET!

    Radiation, asbestis, chemicals, SU ammo, shots made of bad shit!

  • hutteto

    Ok, so how about the f'ng fools who took up positions in military positions not researching or trying to find out what the hell they were "fighting"?! The USA is the aggressor, anyone with a brain should easily know that, so why the heck would they trust the USA military command????????????????????????????????? I cant add enough question marks to emphasize how stupid this is!

  • pjrsullivan

    Might Roast Kidney disease not be one of the expected outcomes of ingestion of radioactive waste? Have we given much thought to the infirmities we may have to endure if we continue to finance the pumping of toxic nuclear waste into our atmosphere?

    Scientific community of 1920 understood by then, there was a significant potential for gross harm, including elimination of our species from the surface of planet earth due to contamination from use of nuclear technology. How did we ever let banker crowd sell us such harm?

    Why do the people that pushed this technology of extinction onto us, still have our purse in their hands?

    Are there any folks out there who may be cynical enough to suspect that this melt down at Hitachi-GE is not an accident at all, but rather a well planned catastrophe for us too suffer? If so, what might the outcome be, when it has melted down into the ground water, blowing up and hurling superheated radioactive steam into our air?

    How many of us can we only wonder, have considered that the same crowd staging Hitachi-GE melt down, are the same ones that have used our purchasing power to mine our planet with literally tens of thousands of nuclear weapons?

    Our elders from space have pulled every nuclear blast shot off of us that Judah put on us. Must labor not act and take hold of our purse to pull these dirty bomb power plant shots off of us?
    To get hold of the authority to issue our money labor will need to STRIKE THEM OUT. Must labor not…

  • paschn

    I was in the military in '69. Talk started going around about the Tonkin incident being a lie. Of course since we were in the U.S. military, we had to be very careful about what we said and to whom we said it. Then, (even waaaay back then), they began training us in how to contain, control our own civilians, (Kent State happened after that). Slowly, as my eyes opened up my patriotism for "mom and apple pie" withered and died. All that's left is contempt. Contempt for a government morphed into something evil and corrupt to the core and contempt for the denizens of that nasty-ass government too puffed up with false pride and blissfully arrogant/ignorant to just how openly they are being "used" w/o benefit of lubricant. Now, I just snicker hang my head and wonder why, even after almost 50 years people are JUST as arrogantly ignorant and willing to slaughter and die, hell even lose their soul for a cesspool responsible for more tyranny/suffering and death of EVEN IT'S OWN TROOPS AND PEOPLE, than Germany's Hitler EVER did or thought of doing. To me, the highest form of disgust is walking into a home with little "shrines" built of a fool's service to "his/her" country mixed with a bible or crucifix. Making an obscene marriage of murder and "Christian" belief. We waste our youth on a government of/by and for the corporations owned by a private Ashkenazi cartel of thieves/murderers called the Federal Reserve. Well, guess what? Tonkin never happened and mom's pie has…

  • I doubt the USS Ronald Reagan will be used as evidence.
    It's being sent back to Japan

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/15/world/asia/navy-japan-carriers/

  • jec jec

    Neutron radiation effects from Fukushima might not have been picked up by instruments on the USS Reagan. We watching the webcams of Fukushima picked up neutron rays, lots of them over a significant time. Wonder if Nuckelchen has footage from the first weeks.

    But– takes special equipment to detect neutron radiation; a Geiger counter won't pick them up

    Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_5339321_neutron-radiation-effects.html#ixzz2rQevBDVQ

  • jec jec

    Could it be the particles from a 'neutron bomb' of the size of Fukushima would be missed by US and Japan devices? Because no one thought it could happen? Or are hiding it?

    • jec jec

      So if there were neutrons, a special gas detector would have to be used..and it seems as if those detectors are limited. No background in this, but with MOX fuel in those reactors..as well as plain old terrible nuclear fuel..who knows what was ejected out. The smaller explosions in Reactors 1 and 2 that did minimal damage..was that a neutron explosion? Just curious…could it have been..??

      • Jebus Jebus

        My answer to this is the industry sent in the clowns, to make sure reactor #3, the obvious one, was perceived as anything but a nuclear criticality of any type. If you manage that sucessfully you eliminate that percieved possibility in reactors #1 or #2…

  • jec jec

    Here is a good diagram of a neutron ray vs beta/gamma/alpha–and what stops or doesnt stop it.Its a different critter for sure.
    http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/kids/KPSH_E/hiroshima_e/radiation_e/radiation04_e.html

    Frankly, keeping water on the corium becomes more and more critical if we are dealing with neutrons! Chime in here guys and gals.

  • pinksailmatt pinksailmatt

    Lots of nasties in Plumes:

    242Cm is short-lived (halflife 160 days) and almost always undergoes alpha decay to Pu-238.

    You don't want this one in or on your body.

  • Socrates

    70,000 service and service-related personnel were not exposed to levels known to be harmful…

    There is scientific controversy about what levels are "harmful." Many people wanted to get out of Japan.

    I would adopt a zero level because no level is safe enough. But evacuation was considered and rejected. I suspect that this was a political and economic decision rather than just a health issue.

    Today, war is multidimensional. Defense is to. One cannot draw a clear line. Maybe that is a problem.

    What if this happened in Germany? What if it happened in San Onfre, California? It is impossible to evacuate 8.5 million people.

    Japan and Chernobyl follow TMI. The above-ground testing caused many health problems. How many meltdowns do they need to prove how safe nuclear energy is?

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    It appears that it will have to be more than 6 each! 🙁

    When our real sun flashes us all, sending us the signal, I have a felling we will have 400+ meltdowns!

    Maybe that will be enough? 🙁

    We are truly being run by morons… 🙁

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    oops.. I have a "feeling".. 🙁

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