New model shows U.S. was hit by Fukushima cloud that dispersed little over Pacific — Gundersen: Authorities knew about hot particles and didn’t warn public; Could have worn air masks, instead it’s stuck in their lungs; Helicopters did secret survey along coast (PHOTO & AUDIO)

Published: December 24th, 2013 at 6:44 pm ET


Uncertainty in Simulation of Global Transport of Radioactive Tracer Emitted from Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, Studies on the 2011 Off the Pacific Coast of Tohoku Earthquake, 2014:

Interview with nuclear expert Arnie Gundersen of Fairewinds, KBOO, Nov. 8, 2013 (at 26:00 in): From Portland on the south, to Vancouver on the north, there was significant hot particles deposited locally. One of the scientists we work with had air filters, continuous air monitors, set up in Seattle and we could clearly show that the average person in Seattle was ingesting about 10 hot particles a day into their lungs. No matter what you do you can’t get that out, the particle size was such that once you breathed it in, it lodged in your lung […] What people in Seattle could have done were to put air masks on, but of course by the time we got that data and analyzed it, it was May and the worst of the cloud had already passed. The authorities did know about it though. I’m absolutely convinced that authorities did know about it and chose to keep us all in the dark. There was a case up in Seattle where the government announced that it was going to be flying helicopters up and down the coast all the way through the Seattle area. They said they were doing background radiation monitoring, and it was just purely coincidence that they were doing it just 90 days after Fukushima Daiichi. I don’t believe that. I think that those helicopters were looking for hot particles and we were not told the outcome of those helicopter surveys. They said it was a national security secret. So authorities did know and didn’t warn us […]

Full broadcast of interview here

Published: December 24th, 2013 at 6:44 pm ET


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171 comments to New model shows U.S. was hit by Fukushima cloud that dispersed little over Pacific — Gundersen: Authorities knew about hot particles and didn’t warn public; Could have worn air masks, instead it’s stuck in their lungs; Helicopters did secret survey along coast (PHOTO & AUDIO)

  • ottawa_dave

    I remember the helicopters in Washington and a strange a surreal announcement from the government. Radiation remote sensing is a classified and sophisticated technology, developed after years of nuclear testing. I can only guess what is going on: maybe measuring Cerenkov light, maybe scintillation in the air; in any case, they know everything. Unless there is another Snowden somewhere, we are not going to find out.

    • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

      @ottawa_dave….I agree…we are never going to find out everything. I guess we will know when people start keeling over on the streets.


    • Gasser Gasser

      Jimi Hendrix; All along the Watchtower


      "There must be some way out of here" …said the enenews in grief
      There's too much lying confusion", …we can't get no Becquerel relief

Businessmen make Nuclear reactors, …Plutonium pollutes our earth

      All of them along the line, …greedily know what its all not worth.

      "There's reason to get excited", …the concerned posters spoke
      There are many here among us. …who see reactors are broke

But you and I, were going through that, …and this may be our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, …the ELE hour is getting late".

      All along the watchtower, …enenews keeping the view
While all the women were there also, …posting facts too.

      Outside in the distance a reactor did blow

      Two clouds were approaching …turned into radioactive snow.


      • Gasser Gasser


        "There must be some way out of here" …said the World to the thief
        There's too much suffering", …we can't get no relief

        Doctors, they sell my blood, …machines dig my grave

        None of them along the line, …know how many they can't save.

        "No reason to get excited", …TepCo blindly spoke
        There are many among them. …who treat life like a joke

But you and I, we've been through that, …and this is not our F'ing fate

        So let us not talk falsely now, …the 11th hour, it's getting late".

        All along the watchtower,…enenews kept the view

        While all the women came solution cognizance, …some barefoot, too.

        Outside in the distance …wild Bucky ball's went into no logic foul 

        Two electric charges were approaching, …the atomic wind began to howl.

        "There must be some way out of here"

        ~Gasser Classic~

      • Bones Bones

        In hundred years from now, I don't care if I die of cancer in 10 years, I want our era to be remembered for it's rationality and ending this madness along with the real underlying problems it came about in the first place. That to me is a noble effort worth our lives. We will die from something. Make the most now.

        • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

          I completely agree Bones. Now is the time for humanity to step up to the plate and stop caring only about how much money they make! C'mon humans!

        • hbjon hbjon

          Bones. Throughout the history of Mankind, there have been epidemics, plagues, wars, floods, earthquakes and many other suppressors to the existence of Man. Limbs were lost in battle and sight was lost by malnutrition. We humans have done unspeakable crimes and punishments to one another in attempts to make right the balance of justice. Eye for an eye.

          A fire will burn its available fuel and stop burning eventually. A contagious disease will run its course until stopped by healthy people that can resist infection. Harmful chemicals can dilute with, and/or bond with stuff that makes ingestion by people less harmful.

          When you die of cancer Bones, you've died of many catastrophic failures within your biological system, including the failure of the analytical mind which had been ordered to protect the organism at any cost. The imperceptible particle will affect your biology if you choose to take it internally. If someone feeds me a meal from the waters off the Fukushima coast, that person commits a crime, and my analytical mind has failed the organism (me).

    • Angelina J. Rosamond

      my buddy's step-sister makes $78 hourly on the computer. She has been unemployed for five months but last month her pay was $20258 just working on the computer for a few hours. check this… http://www.TEc80.Com

  • vicky13 vicky13

    Hi ottawa_dave,,

    Ya they know what is going on. They are murdering us, and they don't give a shit about it.

    Only thing is these total lowlife azzholes, have gotta breathe also, so they are sucking in as many hot particles, and absorbing the gamma shine just like the rest of us.

    Cancer don't care who you are,, only thing that helps me,, is KARMA will get her way,, and at least our WHITE KARMA will evolve us to higher beings where those black hearted DIRTBAGS will sow their black KARMA and be reborn as radiactive SLUGS.

    I like this image,, Karma at HER best,,

    Greetings from Ottawa also, I am in the Capital of Canada,, have a NETC station on the map also.

    • Sol Man

      It would be interesting to understand any relationship between the requirement/universality of water for life to occur and the fulfillment of karmic law. One would think that with the heap of abuse that has been brought to the substance that there may be some hell to pay. Who has been keeping the tally sheets?

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture


    • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

      More likely lung cancer. The iodine was gone in 10 days.

      Which begs the question:

      Would it be so very difficult to map someone's lungs for particles? Once roughly found, how difficult would it be to add a tiny detector to a bronchoscope, and then crudely biopsy out say, each of 5 or 10 radioactive particles?

      • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

        @ Crash2Parties,
        Yes! What a great idea! We are going to need something like this ASAP!
        Doubt I would be able to afford it though.
        Also doubt Obamacare will cover it lol 🙁

      • J.

        I wrote an expert; the answer is that biopsy can and does reveal inhaled radiation damage and the evidence is used in court cases. As I read the reply, that applies to living persons and not only post-mortem cases.

  • Socrates

    Black helicopters in Seattle measuring hot particles but not telling residents…

    Instead, they get hystericalabout Iran and Syria….

    The answer is clear – they didn't want to bomb Seattle.

    If only some closely connected air filter mask company could have made money on the fear of hot particles, the entire country would have had air filter masks.

    Whatever happenef to duck and cover?

  • Proton

    Hmm… didnt gundersen in his 20+ "hired" appearances on cnn present himself as an authority/ expert in the matter of downplaying and hiding facts about fukushima?

    • mairs mairs


      Who are you and what's your goal?

      • Proton

        mairs… Hi, I am proton.

        I remember seeing A to the G – Undersen tell people to "get it while it's hot" talking about pacific seafood, specifically the tuna fish…
        like Questionit says below he sorta discredits himself very handily making statements like that…

    • Questionit

      Proton, you are on the right track. CNN uses gundersen for a reason, to minimize concerns about Fuku in the US. Arnie gundersen presents himself as an expert activist but his actions show his mission is to downplay and deceive about the impact to the US.

    • Socrates

      If he is covering it all up, then why law the forensic foundation and perpetuate the evidence and go public?

      Secondly, why would Arnie discriminate against other areas?

      I believe there were black helicopters. That makes sense….

      Arnie is an expert witness and a former whistleblower, not a limited hangout. That's how I see it.

      • Questionit

        To control the message, perception and delivery of the message by the opposition by being their trusted rep.. And get them to pay their donations to you instead of a group who is not controlled.

        By being the voice you can shelve much of the information for as long as possible, minimize the impact of information you cannot shelve, divert attention away from new damning info and divert efforts away from investigations into the cause of the new info, damages or radiation readings.

        It is no accident that Gundersen is always being picked by corps like CNN to speak. The impact of what is being brought by others is thereby contained through Arnie's delivery.

        Example: Represent that the problem was only in a more limited area of the west coast and that the problem has happened but the event is over (not a continual danger).

        As someone frequents posts here "Arnie, where are the coriums?"

        • Socrates

          You have not explained why Arnie gathered and preserved evidence. Why should he tell you where the corium (s) are. He has stated the some blew and others had through the holes in the bottom of the reactors vessels – the 60 some places where the moderator rods go. The containment is concrete so the corium burns down into the mudstone. Uphill aquifer conducts water over the corium in lava tubes.

          You criticism of Arnie is logically inconsistent. Maybe you are confusing the issue for some reason. I can understand that some people want to discredit him. I hope you do not engage in that. But your attack is logically inconsistent…

          • timemachine2020 timemachine2020


          • Questionit

            Socrates, I do not need to discredit Arnie, he does that himself.
            The information he collects is what others have already put forth and cannot be minimized. Gundersen does not want to address the coriums because if he is forced to admit that they are out then he cannot deny ongoing contamination occurring to the US. Gundersen is deceiving people about the situation.
            As the knowledge of the circumstances progressives due to the efforts of others he only includes what he has to and redirects attention away as much as possible.

            After the event Arnie Gundersen advised the people on the west coast to NOT take iodine tablets as he claimed the danger was not that great. He minimized the true dangers to the people. Then when others showed the level of contamination that had been occurring and people became aware, only then did he start making an issue of it.

            If you are willing to see Arnie Gundersen for what he is his actions are "logical".

            • Socrates

              Arnie said that #3 was a moderated prompt criticality but was wrong about the potassium iodine. The corium is too hot to touch, so to speak.

          • Proton

            Arnie recently said "Thank God it wasn't as bad ad they imagined."

            He was referring to the NRC believing with sound evidence from the IAEA that SFP4 was afire & "radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere" reporting ~9 hours later the fire was extinguished.

            Sounds like he is completely denouncing official evidence found in NRC FOIA documents pertaining to fukushima, as well as claiming the FOIA doc's to be "new" when they have clearly been available for a long ass time…

            Hasn't H. P. been talking about that same "new" evidence for almost 2 full years now?

          • flatsville

            Socrates, Given the initial direction in which I believed you were headed with your tort, have you exlpored chain of custody issues with the Gundersen samples?

            Just checking in to make certain Fuku hasn't suffered a new calamity…

          • The attack isn't logically inconsistent, it's transparent as glass. They've no need to subvert Arnie, who has been entirely consistent and steadfast in his criticisms. They just bought up a whole bunch of oceanographers, climate scientists, environmentalists and assorted other academics for their big PR push, all to tell us everything's great and we MUST have more nukes to defeat global warming. Arnie's small potatoes compared to them.

            This kind of tactic is to be expected whenever sheer authority doesn't generate the desired results – in this case, a complacent public happy to be prodded through the chutes to the slaughterhouse killing floor. By the time they figure out where they've been led, they'll also know the only way out is through the loading dock in a box.

            It would be a shame of people here fell for it.

        • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

          Didn't he only start appearing on the mainstream news relatively recently though? Why didn't CNN pick him up from the beginning if it was all the plot of some big government conspiracy? I think that you give too much credit to government bodies' ability to organize and carry out plans. They're essentially monkeys in suits – they have a firm grasp of the law, but in today's age of complex social processing of information and decentralization, as well as in the implementation of their plans, they fail big time. I highly doubt that if they wanted to 'blur the lines' or manipulate information, they would hire a person with an extensive background of anti-nuclear activism; it would be easier to hire an actor – governments largely distrust scientists for anything other than carrying out orders for new weapons/military tech. What you're suggesting is not unlike Obama hiring Greenpeace to carry out its corporatist pro-pollution agenda. Do you really that the man is so daft as to hand over the inner workings of the political machine to a bunch of activists that will stab them in the back at the drop of a hat, or in this case, one scientist/activist that will do exactly the same? You may want to review the Snowden and Manning cases again – both were hired government workers who were given some initial form of trust by the authorities in charge. No, the person(s) you're thinking of needs to come from inside the machine, needs to be co-conspirating, and needs to have been there…

          • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

            from the beginning of the crisis.

            I don't know… Your view is too cynical even for moi. If we can't believe Gundersen and Caldicott, than I don't know who are we left with. Also, who, then, can we trust? I'm more inclined to believe a physcist who has experience decomissioning nuke plants is friends with a physician with a history of helping children suffering from radiation poisoning, and has written credible literature on the subject.

            In any case, to think that people or even sheeple today still rely solely on one form of information/media would be a mistake. How is CNN even a real, credible source of information? It's infotainment with a very strict format, and if I was Gundersen I would go on their shows, but wouldn't even bother trying to expose anything because the whole thing is a joke, and the people still watching it aren't too smart if that's what they think passes for news.

            When the time comes (and it comes to at least a handful of people with each passing day), people with a genuine sense of worry will turn to sites like these, YouTube radio/media channels such as the ones run by RadChick or Nicole Sandler, or Fairewinds (which does not have a corporate agenda and corresponding format, thus is free to publish in whatever is best).

            The people that feel the need to be calmed down in times of real crisis (such as the one we're seeing today), or scared into false action in times of peace, are the people that watch CNN for life instructions.

      • Shaker1

        There were definitely helicopters. I remember postings on indymedia about their presence. I did a cursory search of the archives, but those seem incomplete and don't reflect much of what was posted there, seems not to include many of the comments, and the archive doesn't include composted postings. There is likely something on Seattle's indymedia site concerning them, but I made myself sick reliving those days in my search and won't make the effort. It wasn't just Libya happening at the time, but the first eruptions of Syria, Bradley Manning, Obama's Bin Laden killing (wish I had so many lives), and the actual reporting of material that was available concerning radioactivity found in water and milk not only up and down the coast, but also as far east as Vermont. Also at that time the military evacuees from Japan were beginning to arrive.

        Arnie just needs to be kept in perspective. He has a physical life, an economic life, and an ethical life, and he may be governed by experience and rules us commoners in this instance may not fathom well, though I believe, Socrates, you might have very good insight.

        By the way, your choice of name is on my list of favorite characters in history, even if much his 'history' is known from playwright satirists and the agenda of Plato. Well done.

  • OldFool

    I don't doubt that it is the truth when A. G. says hot particles were detected from Portland to Seattle. But why limit the geographic scope like this?
    What about the coastline SOUTH of Portland? Did the hot particles also hit California too? Would seem likely, BUT does anybody really have any definite answer on this with a link to any real measurement data? Skip the snide comments. Only reply if you have some solid info one way or another.

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      I seem to remember when Arnie talked about this. He said Seattle was THE most radioactive city after Tokyo, had the most hot particles. The plume plowed into the coast right over them as I recall.

      • Kassandra

        Us geological survey found the most cesium in LA

        Unit 3 blew in over SoCal

        And over us in AZ, although the geological survey didn't sample here

    • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

      Do what I do and each morning open NETC in one browser tab, and wunderground's jet stream map in another tab. It's amazing how closely they coincide and how localized the high readings can be.

      It'd be amazing if netc would add a toggle-able jet stream layer to their google earth map (hint, hint)…

    • HoTaters HoTaters

      OldFool, St.PaulScout, maybe Arnie and the group(s), scientists with whom he is affiliated weren't able to sample much in California ??? Not sure. Think they did some sampling, but perhaps the findings weren't as significant as what was found in Oregon and Washington.

      I spoke with Maggie at one point, and was told Marco Kaltofen was analyzing automobile air filters and perhaps some other items sent from California.

      I was told there were, as far as they could tell, far fewer hot particles found in California. I think Maggie told me the HEPA filters they had analyzed didn't have heavy contamination. But that's relative, so please don't quote me. It has been over a year since I called Fairewinds.

      Please contact them yourself, research the materials at their website, or contact Marco Kaltofen, who was coordinating the research. Would not want to give out info. that's not 100% correct, so please get the facts from them, directly.

      What I can tell you is the Gundersons are very, very careful about what they say and do. And for good reason. Maggie has legal background and is circumspect in making statements. The people handling the sampling are very, very careful about what they're doing, how they do it, and how everything, physical and other, is handled.

      Call them yourself, please, if you need to be assured about their methods. (This comment was meant to apply to both the curious and those who question the Gundersons & their methods, credibility.)

      • HoTaters HoTaters

        IMO the Gundersons are ethical, responsible people. They have earned my respect. I appreciate their well reasoned approach. They are telling us the situation is very, very serious.

        It really does make a difference, when one approaches news outlets in a professional manner. I respect the Gundersons in part for their professionalism.

        Maybe they're not "telling all" or as much as some would like, but they're also not alarmists and screaming, "the sky is falling" without having something to back up their statements. What they have told us is, I think, trustworthy information.

        Just my two cents' worth.

        • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

          I agree, because, at this point, something is better than nothing, and the U.S. government has given the world zero information about any of the implications of this disaster.

          • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

            If I wasn't such a hypocritical douche, I would tell people to boycott American goods as well as Japanese right now, but I like my American stuff, so I won't LOL.
            In all seriousness though, will boycotts even move two governments that have shown just how much money they are willing to print to 'stabilise' their economies? Whatever we do, I have a feeling they'll just tack on some extra zeroes in their bank accounts, enforce stricter austerity onto the national economy, and finally steal some money from people a la the Cyprus bailout.

      • OldFool


        Thank you for the advice to go to the higher sources. As you recommend, I think it is time to ask Marco directly. They all have to be very careful in what they say publicly – for many reasons. Too bad other people don't appreciate the many consequences the truth tellers face when governments are determined to hide the truth.

  • jec jec

    Guess that is why the rush to OBAMACARE. For some reason Obama thinks with health care it FIXES cancer? Someone better wake up! There is no cure..its at the most managed. but not the PAIN! And if the government thinks insurance companies are going to pick up the costs..they have another think coming. Insurance companies are there for profits..not to help citizens. Noted the average CPM in Hawaii is 99 CPM, one under alert status..enjoy your holiday Mr President..those 100 CPM can give you a yearly dose in 2 weeks ….for kids it probably is worse..

    • tbg

      Yes I came to that realization a while ago as well, obamacare (and the redefinition of cancer) isn't about giving poor people healthcare, its about keeping the rich rich against the coming flood of medical costs, cant have all those people with no insurance too sick to leave the hospital. This way hospitals actually can refuse to admit you if you dont have your papers, and obama care fees come out of peoples annual taxes so it doesnt seem like they are really getting charged anyway.

      I wonder what the beaches here would Geiger like, assuming as I do, that we are getting more direct air from Japan more often?

      • mairs mairs

        No. There hasn't been any change in hospitals having to admit people to emergency rooms. I guess you've never had health insurance before. They give you an insurance card that you present when you get medical care so they can bill your insurance company. And yes, paranoiacs use those cards as well.

      • truthseek truthseek

        @tbg – that is exactly what I have been thinking…

        *not a Right or LEFT / Obama thing or slant.
        'Affordable Health Care' what have you…

        There 'must' be redefinitions of what is in place, which
        burdens which have evolved the past couple of years.
        Since the eventual destruction of the planet began,
        60 years of dead on assault…

      • Shaker1

        "isn't about giving poor people healthcare"

        tbg, that's exactly right, and to a point what follows in that sentence might also be true, but (sorry) I don't think that you understand the place of insurance companies too well. Obamacare is all about PAYING for healthcare and assuaging the conscience of some who might have such a thing in regard to healthcare. Its initiation began before Fukushima, and Fukushima is just an incident that happened. And as for what you might call 'the rich', that is in some small point true, but, compared to the poor, that can be applied to just about the whole middle class of America, especially when one considers what done with the money in insurance. Insurance, at the least, is two businesses in reality, the insurance end itself, and the investment end, that which takes excess cash and uses it in markets. Otherwise, insurance would just a be a Ponzi scheme that would continually be reliant upon catastrophes not happening, and there's no way they would have sufficient funds to cover even small, local catastrophes. The economic crisis here was very close to sinking the investment end of everything, pensions, insurance companies (very big players), funds, etc. Obamacare, in essence, is a poor compromise and its intent is to prop insurance companies, basically guaranteeing their funds. Faced with feeding your kids or insuring them, which would you choose? So basically, it's forcing the issue, keeping money in private insurance.

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          Shaker1, you're so right about the "two sides" of insurance. The longer the companies can delay paying claims, the more $$ they have to invest in short term securities. This investment practice is called by the benign sounding term, "risk management."

        • elenews

          Agree the insurance issue is a mess, mainly because insurance companies are still involved. But I respect Obama for keeping a promise to his mom to get universal coverage going. While he's had to do many lesser things just to stay alive in such a complex job, I AM glad that he at least was able to get a 'marker on the board' in this healthcare game. It's a start. Hopefully we will get single payer down the road. Soon I hope.

      • jec jec

        150 CPM for Northern California baach. There is a video here somewhere..150 CPM! Person witn an INSPECTOR (thats very reliable) just pointed from the beach at the ocean..shoulder height. With higher RADS lower.

        Had to see the children walking with family and playing in the sand at the same time. Criminal is not a good enough word to use…

    • mairs mairs

      It was passed before Fukushima happened, and the rollout schedule was determined then.

      • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

        Now there you go using facts to prove the truth…

        (and I'm not such a fan of the ACA, as it is precluding the expansion of medicaid/medicare to become a true single-payer system for everyone)

    • norbu norbu

      Jec, I value your opinion. When you say there is no cure, you mean cancer? I have to say that is not true. Yes I can prove it. No cure with western medicine you are right. Mairs, The health care mandate is illegal. Maybe they knew Fuku was going to happen. Who knows…they do.
      happy days

    • Tiza Tiza

      Or maybe BO will eat a ton of fish. Especially bluefin tuna.

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    There will always be a bill to pay when you visit and/or want to take anything from the slaughter house.. 🙁

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    We all relly knew, MOX Fuel made up Unit 3 & its SFP, 4 we don't for sure, all the info has been on the net for all to see.
    None of the MSM has covered nothing but dumb down the public crap, soon when it hits them head on with a economic crash, hospital over stuffed with faster killing cancers, maybe a war, then they will remember what their real jobs were in the old days, to keep the gooberment straight & the real crooks out of power, but don't hold your breath.
    May Peace be will all.

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      MOX was about 6% of reactor 3's total load. Around 24,000 pounds of it in 11 metric tons or so. THATS a lot of Plutonium to have been vaporized. Each reactor will have a certain amount as it is a 'normal' byproduct of normal reactor function. Jesus, if 5,000 pounds went up in a vaporous form the world is pretty much fucked. What ever it lands on or in, more oceans than anything you know, will be poisoned to death.

  • tbg

    I dont have any hard facts, I seriously doubt anyone does at this point, or at least until another suppressed report from 2011 surfaces.

    But I do know that the wind from Japan comes more directly to Vancouver Seattle Portland than Southern Oregon or California. I cant find it again but I remember reading years ago that there have even been times when cherry blossoms from japan blew all the way across the pacific and landed in Seattle, not a ton but a few. And California is another 1000+ miles south of Seattle, so it seems to make some sense to me that the fallout distribution would be uneven, but in general heavier airborne deposits would fall first, and with more closer to the source. I would think vbc and seattle would get the worst, so maybe the canadians will man up and tell us something.

    But the US knows… with PNNL and Hanford here, NBKB, JBLM, with nukes at both and the most advanced radiation detection satellites in the world, They Know. Which doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but it does make me wonder what those 30,000 nuclear industry workers in Washington did mid-march 2011, did even they know or did they buy the bullshit too? Seems like They might be concerned about plutonium and neptunium hot particles here (that last Forever). Last I heard Seattle still wont release their infant mortality numbers, another good sign since Boise Spokane and Portland are all up.

    • OldFool


      Thank you for addressing the scientific issue I raised. When I compared the all time peak radiation measured in Seattle to the all time peak radiation measured at UC Berkeley, I calculated that UC Berkeley was hit with somewhat less than 7% of what hit Seattle. Other people should double-check my calculations. But this was a comparison of iodine gas isotopes, not hot particles directly. It is not clear that there would be constant ratio of hot particles compared to iodine gas, regardless of the coast geography, but if this is postulated, then the hot particles would also be somewhat less than 7% in number than what hit Seattle. But it would be far better if someone knows of a direct measurement of hot particles anywhere in the California in March or April of 2011.

      • jec jec

        Good friend of mine had a 22 WEEK pregancy. The baby, almost a record early birth, lived. That was in late March 2011. The mom worked outside in Seattle with plants and shrubs, was outside while the plume went over. Any proof this is the cause of early delivery? No, but sure seems unusual. Sadly, while we have kept in touch, in the past year she has not been talking much about the baby's development. At first he was 'slow' but catching up…now I am worried but what can one say or ask? This is truely in God's hands now.

        • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

          I'm not sure, I think it's pretty safe to ask with an air of general interest how her child is doing. When my uncle's son was born prematurely, it was a common conversation-starter to ask 'so how is little [insert toddler name here]'s immune system doing?'. Or is it now politically incorrect to ask about children's health?

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    Old Fool, PU hot particles was found in many places in the US & Europe with Fukushima's foot prints on it! Enenews has printed it.

  • wetpwcas1 wetpwcas1

    tbg. + 100 times right!

  • Kassandra

    I listened to this entire interview. Arnie raises a critical point:

    He said in this interview that the fuel in spent fuel pool #4 contains more radioactivity than in every bomb ever tested.

    In contrast, Robert Alvarez’s figure for the total amount of radiation contained in ALL the fuel inventory at Fukushima was given in terms of C-137.

    Alvarez described the fuel at Daiich as containing half the total amount of Cesium-137 estimated to have been released by all atmospheric testing, Chernobyl, and world-wide reprocessing plants.

    I always thought Alvarez was simply representing the entire volume in terms of C-137. I didn't think he was omitting the rest of the radionuclides in the fuel.

    But Arnie's comments make me think Alvarez was omitting all the other radionuclides and many of them – especially Uranium – will be in much higher volume than C-137.

    When Arnie added in ALL radionuclides (rather than just cesium-137) he claimed the fuel at 4 alone contains more radioactivity than ever released by atmospheric testing.

    So, if we add in ALL the radionuclides to Alvarez's figure, do we get astronomical volumes of radiation stored at Daiichi that are 6-7 times (maybe more) as much radiation as ever released by atmospheric testing?

    We ain't going to survive this if what I ask is true.


    • bf9 Fitz

      My thoughts are that we better get to work on a massive international bio-med/bio-engineering program.


        that's underway Fitz. It's come to my attention (open sources), a bio-med research team has recently been successful at using gene therapy to alter damaged genetic material. This has been the holy grail of the genetic engineering crowd, since day one; the reconstruction of damaged strands of replicating (viable) DNA. However, not being privy to the actual research studies, I'm not in a position to say whether this research will ever make it out of the lab, or for that matter, become available to the masses. Hopefully, someone else out here can develop this subject in greater detail…

        • HoTaters HoTaters

          AFTERSHOCK, I have a video link to post re: repairing damaged DNA and quantum physics you might find interesting. Makes me want to learn Qi Gong. Seriously. And to see everyone develop their perfect gifted-ness.

          Am VERY interested in this. Have journeyed into this area as part of a personal healing journey after a long illness.

          All you newsers, this may seem pretty far out there. But should we be asking if we need to be changing the structure of our thoughts in order to change the physcial world? Am beginning to think there is evidence we can strongly influence the world around us.

          Consider nuclear power as a gross form of energy. Maybe our collective thoughts and a focused intent could influence the outcome of certain events?

          Please see the part of the video wherein there is discussion of human conscious reaction to being shown pictures of atomic blasts, and horrendous injuries. Would appreciate everyone's feedback. How about at "non nuclear" Forum?

          Am just thinking it is not profitable to view current events as they are (yes, very grim) w/o also focusing intent on some kind of positive outcome. Perhaps influencing one's personal health and state of mind in a positive manner, even if the "end game" is being played out. And even if we cannot change a potential ELE scenario.

          Dr. G, you have made reference to this kind of thought process, I think. Am starting to "get it" more and more.

          • HoTaters HoTaters

            Here's the link:


            Will need to do more research on this to find out if the "scientific" claims are credible.

            • HoTaters HoTaters

              Maybe the subtle energies, collectively "directed" by conscious intent, can influence the fabric of space, time, existence in and beyond our three dimensional existence?

              Thought the conversation about soul matches (a lot of focus put on it) was a bit much, but the part about directing consciousness & science was fascinating.

              • HoTaters HoTaters

                Consider bio-electrical forces.

                Damn, this discussion about the massive amounts of stuff coming out of Fukushima (just one source of radiation) is really awful. Crap.

                Just thinking since this really, really gets me down sometimes, being too aware or not being able to offset my negative thoughts can't be healthy.

                Will argue for doing what we can to take care of ourselves while all this plays out. We only truly have the moment in which we exist.

                Perhaps others are better at coping than I am. For me, there must be an outlet for all the stress I feel when confronted with the sheer awfulness of Fukushima. Hoping to try to heal myself or stave off radiation induced illness. Will at least have better state of mind if I work on it. Better health (at least hypothetically) should ensue.

                Truly, though, am beginning to think part of what's needed right now is NOT buying into any kind of fear. Which is what Dr. Goodheart emphasizes.

                Will not go so far as to say, "As you think, so you are." But likely as you think, you're more likely to become.

                • elenews

                  HoTaters and others, I am saying that self-expression is one of the highest good things to which people can aspire. The arts are particularly good for that. Meditation is another good thing, may even qualify as an art itself.

                  What do we value highly in people? Something about the way they express themselves in their lives is certainly of value. Expression can take many forms.
                  I'm not a very good writer, but I hope what I'm trying to communicate is clear enough.

            • HoTaters HoTaters

              AFTERSHOCK, some of the consciousness experiments indicate focused thought may have (or has) the ability to influence the arrangement of DNA and its electrical field.

              • HoTaters HoTaters

                But the "quantum energy" pendant thing makes me wary, very wary. Not sure I'd trust that guy at around 17:00 to 19:00 in the video. Tachyon energy? Hooey or real? Some of the people promoting this stuff are just wack-jobs out to make a fast buck.

                Want to move in a positive direction, as much as possible. But not to live in a Pollyanna world.



                  @HoTaters: as it's Christmas day so I'll start by wishing you and yours (as well as everyone else on ENENEWS) a blessed year!

                  Hard to know where to begin, as you've put much on my plate! Suppose your closing thoughts are a good place. We agreed about the fear factor; that we not allow it to become part of our daily lives. As any adult knows, fear is a natural response to danger, but often paralyzes some when faced with threatening situations. We must heed those who criticize us for over-reacting to what may be presently unknown. Though our dire speculations are more-often-than-not eventually realized, it’s imperative that we not fall into the trap of accepting any-and-every scenario that feeds the insatiable appetite of fear mongers. Doing otherwise allows others to denigrate our good efforts as being those of loony environmentalists. This is why I’ve been quick to call-out unsubstantiated speculation as being just that.

                  From what I've gathered from the informative posts on this site, many who frequent ENENEWS will likely become the guiding light for those who finally awaken to the horrors of Fukushima. We've taught each other much and fearlessly continue to do so.



                  It was more than mere serendipity which brings us all to we find ourselves, these days. From what I’ve learned in the course of my many duties in the working world, nothing occurs that wasn't intended to be. We may not like what our species endures at any given moment, yet later see how these same challenges (naturally occurring or manmade) became force for progressive efforts. And for those who have the courage to pull the covering back, they alone may discover the truth to – why – it happened.

                  As to the endless snake-oil scams that follow close upon the heels of tragedy? Do I ever agree! Yet it is difficult to ascertain when someone's on to something that eludes conventional 'logic'. So, I'll often remain measured (tepid) in my final judgment to what's possible and what isn't. After all, there are limits to what any of us knows and why we're so dependent on one another…



                  Regarding feeling down and which personally and collectively affect us: I call your attention to the Yin-Yang symbol and what it illustrates. At no point is this meditation static and unchanging. It is in constant motion, both two dimensionally and multi-dimensionally. Most interpret the symbol as being two dimensional and representative of the dualities of existence. While this is true, it’s also representative that the so-called balance is never fully achieved at any one time! This means that it’s natural to find ourselves at odds with the surrounding universe. So, avoid thinking you’re somehow out of phase with things. Simple truth is we’re always out of phase, within a perfectly balanced system; and we’re supposed to be! And every attempt to rebalance that evolving movement will only contribute to a need for future corrections.

                  Your thoughts that “Maybe the subtle energies, collectively "directed" by conscious intent, can influence the fabric of space, time, existence in and beyond our three dimensional existence?” is more significant than most would want to accept. You may recall from our prior email dialog, I hinted that just such ‘revelation’ would be open for discussion. However, such arcane matters cannot be addressed within this (or any other) open forum. You’re likely aware, there are limits to what should be revealed to those who may misuse such information.



                  You are correct in your suspicion that these events will not only lead to tragedy, but also compel positive changes. That is precisely why I’m here, to ‘cultivate’ those changes which bear more productive fruit. Unbeknownst to many who use this site for personal therapy (venting), this site is continuously monitored (pulsed, as it were) for what’s being perceived by the general public. The product of that ‘oversight’ is used to adjust public perceptions. Yet, there are instances where our insights are also being used to avoid further mistakes, in how they respond to Fukushima. Of greater significance, our penned thoughts are equally influential in what long-terms efforts are worthy of pursuit. Simply put, our fledgling efforts out here are having a far-greater impact than we’ll ever know.

                  I’ll have to put-off watching the video as there are people coming by for Christmas goodies. Again, I’ll wish you the best of holiday celebrations and a safe up-coming new year. Love ya’ Taters and all that you do for us, out here. Keep up the brilliant rants and never lose faith…

          • elenews

            HoTaters, yeah. What you said. I recently took up classical guitar again after not playing for a long time. Music puts my thoughts into perfect order. I am shocked I gave it up because I felt so,,traumatized. So in this current trauma I am very glad I started it again last year. Feels right.

        • MochiMadness


          So, just curious–this gene therapy includes the entire biosphere, right? I mean, we're not being anthropocentric here…just a little…right? Should I, as a medical professional—learn the skills it's going to take to capture and provide therapy for the millions of species that inhabit our earth?

          Sorry. This whole medical magic will save the day—for humans—is insulting on it's face. I'm first in line to want NOT to die of radiation poisoning (or insecticide poisoning, or any OTHER type of poisoning)—

          but this trend towards "Medicine (Western or otherwise) must find a way to save human beings"—is ridiculous. Are you serious? Even if we COULD "repair" damaged DNA—YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE SUBJECT THAT IS UNDERGOING THERAPY FROM THE SOURCE OF THE INITIAL DAMAGE. So will we just put everyone into quarantine? Maybe just the rich? How about those guys who run the remaining hundreds of nuclear power plants–and their families? What about people who maintain other dangerous things, like chemical plants, nuclear arsenals–and what about other countries? Or is this just an "American" thing?

          And again—we are not the only species on this planet. We cannot (AND WHO WOULD WANT TO? that is the absolute ESSENCE of arrogance) live on this planet without the ecosphere.

          • MochiMadness

            Sorry to be so brutal and snarky–I am not usually that way–but this is really getting insane.

            This idea that we'll just develop a pill or a therapy or any other magic wand in order to mitigate the effects of radiation poisoning–is also allowing the situation to continue. "We'll just go and get gene therapy! We'll just take these here pills and WE'LL be okay!"

            Developing "workarounds" only allows the condition of the situation to continue. It's unfortunate and horrible to see, but want to know when I see (in medicine) people truly get off their arse and CHANGE things? When they are faced with certain death…or a loved on is faced with certain death. THAT is when change occurs.

            We didn't want to just find a way to treat polio–we wanted to eradicate it. Same with any other disease that kills in high volume, indiscriminately.

            Radiation poisoning will kill in massive volumes, interspecies, and entirely indiscriminately. Developing a way to "live longer" while the entire biosphere dies is not, in my opinion, a viable solution.

            The solution isn't palatable. Massive human capital has to be expended in order to get this situation at Fukushima in hand–and no one (including and especially me) wants to line up for that job. We're too narcissistic as a species and unfortunately for those species who do not suffer from the human condition–we're going to destroy them along with ourselves.

            • bf9 Fitz

              If you've seen my posts around here recently, I agree with you entirely. I've posed my solution as a multi pronged effort with the leading edge as solving the meltdown/source of radiation. Because if that burns for hundreds of years, no amount of anything is going to make a difference. Offense, and defense. If there was an international massive effort to solve this thing *I* and several of my friends would take the first flight over there to work on the plant. I'm 21. I know this would be a death sentence of the worst kind but I refuse to do nothing short of everything I possibly could to solve this catastrophic mess. And it's going to take MILLIONS of like minded people. Once the bleeding is stopped we can shift those resources to the defensive side to pick up the pieces, if you will. This is going to take the most massive human project ever conceived, right out of a movie script. But it is NOT too late. I'll continue once I'm done with my family today.


            @MochiMadness: the focus of my response to Fitz was in response to his immediate inquiry. However, you points are well received. Thinking there's any solution to the situation we find ourselves in, must include all life forms on the planet. If you've had the opportunity to read some of my prior commentary on what we need to do in answer to this catastrophe, I've clearly made a point of including environmental remediation as being integral to any-other efforts. That said, thanks for the excellent response and do have a wonderful Christmas day and safe up-coming year…


              P.S. none of what you've said is perceived as being "snarky". On the contrary, you offer some brilliant insights to what challenges we face…

              • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

                Nothing "snarky" about displaying concern or the truth.. 🙂

                • MochiMadness

                  Aftershock–Thank you for receiving the comment as it was intended…not AT YOU, but as a pull back from this fantastical thinking that's going around.

                  I'm asked all the time what can be done,why we aren't working harder, whether there is some sort of "secret plan" that "they" are just keeping to "themselves" to reduce population. What I find ironic is this staggering distrust in medicine/science and yet when anyone gets sick–who is sought out for the demand to save us?

                  It's so painful to see people so, so afraid–all of this grasping and bargaining and denial–and yet unwilling (or unable. there are those that are willing…just not enough of them) to actually do anything proactive. My chosen vocation is to heal the sick, not stand by and watch suffering. This is excrutiatingly painful…to everyone, even those who deny the problem. The stages of grief are displayed here in heart wrenching detail–some days I just can't stand it.

                  I don't know who else here is in medicine, but anyone who works in my field has seen what humans suffering from radiation poisoning look like, up close and personal.

                  A friend suggested today–and I'm not sure if this has been floated–that there be a world-wide lottery, with exceptions for those severely disabled only, and of course an age limit (too young, too old). Kind of like a global draft. Teach them what to do and get these things done. And yeah, I would go.

                  • AFTERSHOCK AFTERSHOCK

                    @MochiMadness: your profession does put you on the front line of what we're all to witness in the coming years. But unlike many others, you will have to endure a host of rad-induced horrors. If you're to weather the storm, you must cultivate a sense of indifference. Otherwise, you'll be destroyed by what you'll have to witness each day. What I tell others out here is to guard your mental and spiritual condition against psychological impact of what you'll learn, just as closely as you'd defend your body against radiation. I've been pouring over these stories on a daily basis for several years and often become overwhelmed by the magnitude of what's happening. I'll take an unannounced departure for a few days and no one knows the better. To retain ones value as a productive and caring person, avoid information overload.

                    Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to suggest that over the ensuing months and years, that you (quietly) merge your knowledge in medicine with what you'll be learning from out here. To my knowledge there are few medical professionals who frequent ENENEWS. That's likely to change in a few years. In the interim, it'd be invaluable to others and myself, if we had someone of your caliber to answer our many questions…

                    Been a long day. I must take my leave now but not before saying that I hope you had a great Christmas day. And again, I hope that you and yours have a safe up-coming year…

    • StPaulScout StPaulScout

      Kassandra – If reactor number 4 was empty like TEPCO says, then the explosion was a result of something that happened in the spent fuel pool. If it was a Hydrogen explosion then the Zirconium cladding on the fuel pellets burned off at least some of the fuel rods. A radiological fire in the SFP. If it was like the LOCA studies recently released and made available on this site say, then the cladding burst open and the fuel ,'fizzed' away, again a radiological fire. How much of the fuel went up in smoke when the thing exploded. Very good chance a LOT of the original contents burned up already. In which case, "We ain't going to survive this if what I ask is true." is a better bet than surviving I think. Just my own worthless opinion though….

      • jec jec

        Anyone remember seeing all the casks and long black containers transported from the Reactor 3/4 area over to the seawalls and to waiting barges? Was a very busy time..with large water conainers near the shoreline, robots and workers to control workers..and barges lined up with casks on board. Wonder what that was all about?? Some of the missing fuel? Japan making a grab for the processed fuel so they can still develop a nuclear capability? Was it removal of 'evidence' of processing weapons grade uranium? And where did those barges go with their payloads?? Thinks like removal to protective water filled freight containers, lifts by robots, barges/casks..this just doent happen for 'fun'. Anyone with an idea of what was going on for those first months? OH USA has people there then as well..

      • hbjon hbjon

        If the hot reactor core was placed in the pool, the pool would require more coolant and faster currents to maintain an optimum temperature. Did this happen, or did the pumps that supply coolant to the pool lose power? Are the coolant transmission pipes broken? Did they suffer catastrophic failure from the earthquake? No available coolant and electrical power means that the cooling pool would have evaporated to expose the fuel assemblies to air.

        The zircalloy containment of the fuel would burn off exposing plutonium and uranium to the air. The fuel and radioactive gases throws itself apart and aerosolizes into the atmosphere and comes down in the rain (fallout). The fish ingest the small particles and die. Some fish do not die right away but swim around until they are caught by fishermen. Water currents carry the contaminants around until they bind with other elements and fall to the bottom of the ocean. Some contaminants will continue to travel above the ocean for long distances. Others will raise above the clouds and move with the jetstream.

    • mairs mairs

      That seems to be a common practice among nuclear industry people, to cite only one radionuclide. When TEPCO published the tritium levels, none of the nuclear industry posters even responded to anyone bringing up other elements.


      @Kassandra: your closing suspicion is inline with mine; we're not going to survive this. My original thoughts to the effect of Fuku would be analogous to a bell curve, where extremely young and old would be the first to be effected; the young because they're in their formative years and the old because they're highly susceptible to rad-induced stresses on their health. Those of us who are in our thirties, forties and fifties will slide – time wise – into a mix of rad-induced and contemporary (chem-induced) illnesses. Other than through the use of statistical comparisons, it will be difficult for epidemiologists to technically isolate rad-toxins as the primary cause for elderly deaths. While we may agree that rad-toxins are a major influence in the premature deaths of those who've been exposed to them, the fact that elderly people have already undergone long-term exposure to a host of other debilitating influences, essentially masks radiation as being a primary cause. On the other hand, rad-induced illnesses in children and young adults will be statistically obvious. And, the (potential) lose of mature – productive – adult workers to the not-too-distant future, coupled with the associated medical costs of caring for so many, will likely lead to massive deficits in every nation's GDP. Thanks to nuclear power and a twist of fate, we're now looking at the waning days of 'modern' society…


        to support my point, the reader is invited to read the (November 11th) Wall Street Journal article, entitled:

        U.S. Hospitals Adopt Child-Friendly Tactics to Minimize Pain, Trauma

        One of the opening paragraphs states: "Some three-million children are considered "medically complex" at present, and their ranks are growing by about 5% a year, according to the National Association of Children's Hospitals and Related Institutions. Ongoing health problems have made many of these children frequent flyers in the hospital system."

        Leave it to the WSJ to conveniently avoid any explanation to why epidemiologist are projecting these growing numbers of cancers, within children. Doubtless that part of the cancer 'plague' is too controversial…

    • harengus_acidophilus

      For better understanding:

      If you use an abbreviation of an element name, you should take the chemistry ones. Not "C-137" ("C" is Carbon), Cs-137 is the proper abbreviation.


  • tbg


    That's what Ive gotten from my research.

  • StPaulScout StPaulScout

    "One of the scientists we work with had air filters, continuous air monitors, set up in Seattle and we could clearly show that the average person in Seattle was ingesting about 10 hot particles a day into their lungs. No matter what you do you can’t get that out, the particle size was such that once you breathed it in, it lodged in your lung […] What people in Seattle could have done were to put air masks on, but of course by the time we got that data and analyzed it, it was May and the worst of the cloud had already passed. The authorities did know about it though. I’m absolutely convinced that authorities did know about it and chose to keep us all in the dark. "

    If this is true, the Federal Government is responsible for the deaths of untold millions in their own country. And around the world who knows how many more, billions perhaps….

    • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

      Pretty much the story since the early 1940's. This isn't the first time this has happened. I'm beginning to be convinced that all that Cold War hype about civil leaders and iodine being distributed & civic buildings being doubly designed as fallout shelters was just doubletalk on a national scale. They never intended to actually use the system, it was all for a massive show so that no one would pay attention to the little man behind the curtain.

    • jec jec

      My family in Seattle keeps getting pnuemonia..all the time..difficulty in breathing..and now the 'flu'..I worry.

  • rogerthat

    Correct me if i'm wrong: The NRC for several days (up to two weeks?) in March was certain SFP4 had no walls and its contents were gone into the atmosphere and spread out over the surrounding countryside. That's what Tepco told the NRC and the IAEA when it happened. ''sfp4 zirc fire, catastrophe'' in NRC transcripts under FOIA was clear enough.
    This information was passed on up the line, presumably to the CIC. But not to the public. So if SFP4 contained the equivalent of 5000 hiroshimas, or whatever other comparative people care to come up with, and that did not trigger a public health warning, what level of nuclear catastrophe will trigger one?

    • mairs mairs

      Good point. I think they would continue to say, "Do you believe us or your lying eyes" no matter what happens.

    • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

      "…what level of nuclear catastrophe will trigger one?"

      A: One where a wealthy & powerful industry is not to blame.

      This is just like the contaminated beef, poultry & produce, where the FDA has to "request" a recall of corporations and "negotiate" the release of information to protect the public that might hurt the companies stock price & therefore, capital class income.

      Except, of course on massive, even global, scale.

  • Questionit

    Arnie Chief Minimizer Gundersen continues to distract from the impact to the US. Gundersen only brings out what is already known while minimizing the current effects on the US (to minimize impact to US business interests). But, his job is to warn that 100's of billions of dollars must be donated by the US for industry contractors to attempt clean up or there will Future impact to the US.

    Gundersen advised AGAINST taking iodine just after the accident as it was not needed (minimizing the dangers). Initially he admitted tuna were testing hot, but then he got his hand slapped and he now says he knows of no written study showing any tuna contamination. He says the pacific salmon are clean and safe.

    Gundersen claims the groundwater contamination is due to shallow groundwater leaking into the buildings through cracks and then picking up contamination and leaking back out. He will not speak to the location of the coriums at all. He will not speak of the massive die off of sea life off the west coast. He will not speak about the new information regarding the very high radiation in the groundwater that makes his claims of simple leaks through cracks a joke.

    Gundersen's job is to say – Look at Japan, it's bad there but we are OK, continue to buy our seafood and there is not further danger to us if quick action is taken. So, get your representatives to give 100's of billions of dollars to GE and others (who will continue to hide the truth) to fix it and all will…

    • Sickputer

      QI types: "He [Gundersen] says the pacific salmon are clean and safe."

      SP: At times (rarely) I have disagreed with a few Fukushima/Japan comments by Arnie. But his stance on fish has never been in league with the US agencies and fishing industry claims of safety across the board.

      "According to Gundersen, who says this is the last year he's eating west coast fish, the deluge of toxic water into the Pacific has already contaminated the ocean.
      He says that halfway across the Pacific, scientists are measuring cesium levels that are 10 times higher than normal."

    • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

      "Gundersen claims the groundwater contamination is due to shallow groundwater leaking into the buildings through cracks and then picking up contamination and leaking back out."

      I'm still working that part out in my head. It's kinda like saying the water leaking into your rowboat leaked right back out again…

    • newsblackoutUSA newsblackoutUSA

      @Questionit….I think we will hear Gundersen changing his tune because he sees public opinion going against nukes. I used to think he was "the real deal" now I see he is just another nuclear pawn who walks the tight wire as to not offend either side while accomplishing nothing in the process.

    • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

      I think that Pacific tuna would taste better with some sauce. Do you have any? Because I can't seem to recall when Gundersen said that the fish from the Pacific is safe to eat.

      I could be wrong of course, but even if he did say that it was safe, I would still like to know the context in which he said it.

  • OldFool

    Since no government or corporate entity is providing much solid information – we are going to have to logically deduce it. I believe the best use of our remaining time and energy is in determining roughly how much radiation we breathed into our lungs in 2011, and what little might be done to prolong life.


      logical suggestion OldFool, but impossible to determine. Even if we were to set aside the fact that we're purposely being kept in the dark, there are way too many natural occurring variables to extrapolate any credible response. When I hear that citizens of San Diego were exposed to five hot particles a day when the first airborne plume reached us from Japan, what of the adjacent areas and populace? Geology alone (valleys/mountains/etc) would have a major influence on what you were able to project from known data. Add weather to the equation and you're lost in a fog of speculative 'data'.

      However, in keeping with your idea that 'something' should be done, we should investigate what measures can be taken to reduce the effects of radiation exposure upon those who reside in areas showing statistical increases in rad-induced illnesses. Kinda what's done in response to known 'cancer alleys'. Such preventative efforts should open to both unconventional, as well as more 'accepted' modalities…

    • razzz razzz

      OldFool: If you are truly old, these hot particles are of less concerns to you being old as the time needed inside your lungs for the decay rays to cause a cancer takes decades. Kids are more of a concern.

      Military during combat calls them 'fuel fleas' and usually only pertains to uranium and plutonium particles but these hot particles from Daiichi are much worse. There is more of a variety of fission fuel that vaporized and was sent airborne during the explosions. Because of the intense heat during a meltdown, everything atomized to the point where masks are useless for inhaling prevention.

      Ingesting these hot particles might afford a different outcome as they can sometimes be excreted more easily but in the lungs it is like being trapped in a filter. The body might surround the irritation with a callous but the slow constant decay rays will still pass thru and damage or kill nearby cells until one day a cell begins mutating wildly into an actual cancer growth.

      No doubt exposure to hot particles is a bad lottery if you live long enough you might be affected or a hot particle lodges in the right place, you become an instant loser. While a body tries to combat the foreign object(s), it can take a toll on overall health without causing an actual cancer. A lot depends on how much exposure and to what types of fallout.

      Even if all the reactors acted like Unit 2, would have still vented fallout but more localized. Leaks into the Pacific not envisioned.

      • OldFool


        Thank you for addressing the issue. I am not too concerned about my own hot particle and radiation exposure for the reason you guessed. But I am concerned about the young people and the disabled. This website comment section could be a great collaborative tool, but I see so many greasy teenagers making flippant insults and accusations against other people to tear others down just to build themselves up. And other people going off on ideological tangents and rants that achieve nothing. The signal to noise ratio is getting pretty low here.

        • ManWithThePlan ManWithThePlan

          As much as I prefer to believe that the 'chilren are the future', those greasy teenagers (at least the ones you talk about) really only have one thing on their minds and aren't really a deciding factor in the equation. You have to give it another couple of years and some serious health problems to really get them off their ass and understand – now? it's pretty much pointless, might as well them be kids for a little while longer.

    • tbg

      Once I had a link to some US nuclear industry testing lab that someone said would run independent tests for civilians, I think some of them can be done via urinalysis at a local lab but I cant find the link anymore.

      I also saw the other day that the UW can perform a radiosurvey for people who've had chemo/rad therapy, probably just looking for technetium, but maybe they will test the public.

      But of course with a nuclear medical department anywhere comes the lying bastards protecting their profit model, the nuclear industry. If I had a dog dose of inhaled Pu in my lungs, would they even tell people?

  • razzz razzz

    Noted here before but still interesting.

    'Fire Balloon'
    "…The jet stream reported by Wasaburo Oishi[4] blew at altitudes above 9.15 km (30,000 ft) and could carry a large balloon across the Pacific in three days, over a distance of more than 8,000 kilometers (5,000 mi)…"

    "…one of the last paper balloons descended in the vicinity of the Manhattan Project's production facility at the Hanford Site. This balloon caused a short circuit in the power lines supplying electricity for the nuclear reactor cooling pumps, but backup safety devices restored power almost immediately…"

    "…chemical examination of the sand from the sandbags to determine types and distribution of diatoms and other microscopic sea creatures, and its mineral composition. The sand could not be coming from American beaches, nor from the mid-Pacific. It had to be coming from Japan. The geologists ultimately determined the precise beaches in Japan the sand had been taken from…"

  • Crash2Parties Crash2Parties

    "They said they were doing background radiation monitoring, and it was just purely coincidence that they were doing it just 90 days after Fukushima Daiichi."

    90 days would've been the second jet stream pass. Or was there a significant event 80-odd days after the earthquake?

    They knew. As I've said before, we have a massive radioactivity monitoring machine in the air, on land, on the seas and overhead in space, all thanks to the Cold War and our "Homeland Security" paranoia that some rogue state will attain enough uranium, polonium, cesium and the rest to build a crude dirty bomb…

  • Nick

    The mindset of those in the nuclear industry is clearly faulty.

    Covering up Fukushima will go down in (our now very short one) history as

    the greatest mass deception of all time.

    The radiation never sleeps.

  • Nick

    and neither do we, since our very neurons are affected by the alpha/beta/gamma rays.

    Trust no one. You have to decide your own truth.

  • captvldz

    The dead shall walk the earth.

    • captvldz

      I almost have to wonder if those responsible have a way out. Maybe they built a temporary shelter in Antarctica and after the walking dead are gone they will use a top secret hi tech to destroy the radiation or render it harmless.

    • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

      captvldz…. I've been thinking about how this situation might very well create a zombie appocolypse type situation once there is mass panic & confusion.
      Ever since I was little I knew we wouldn't be living through boring times… But WOW!
      Never expected anything like this!

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    One never knows what goes on behind closed/drawn curtains. 🙁

    That's why they were closed/drawn in the first place.

  • WindorSolarPlease

    Maybe we all should have worn air masks, then again it might not have helped anyway.

  • TheBigPicture TheBigPicture


    Nuclear plants should not be allowed to exist. Any, Anywhere. Must "not be allowed".

  • nedlifromvermont

    peace 'newsers, rest. For tomorrow is another day.

    Have yourself a merry little Christmas,
    It may be our last.
    Next year we may all be living in the past.

    something close to the original lyric, before it was sanitized on Judy Garland's orders.

    Extended video on fiftieth anniversary of original release of "Meet Me in St. Louis" …

  • tbg

    And another foggy night in Seattle (at least for me beside lake washington) and what do you know Netc's Seattle EPA station is off again. They already did that for several days recently, its kind of comical when you look at the radnet graph now. It was foggy those days also, hmm lots of dense fog lately in seattle.

    Do they turn it off because they cant test in fog or because the fog is tritiated water fog, maybe with some other water-solubles for flavor? Although I would think that would blow away or disperse over long distances, but then obviously I'm no nuclear anything, except thinker.

    Oh yeah…Merry Christmas.

    I recommend you love your people like you might not get another, and regardless we will all be better for it.

  • davidmcsf

    i remember them doing this over two days here in Berkeley, CA.
    A friend of mine mentioned it going on in Pacifica and the Sunset District in San Francisco…
    funny thing my boyfriend wondered if they were looking for some lost nukes! – only they weren't really lost eh?

  • Hot and Bothered Hot and Bothered

    My brain hurts : (

  • rogerthat

    So if they are not going to tell the public, who are they monitoring for?

  • Vorith

    Sorry Vic, there is no karma. Cause and effect yes and that's where it came from naturally. However that was tweaked (called priestcraft) for social engineering designs. Hence we've had the idea of a trice payback karma foisted onto us. Payback karma's reality is "in the eye of the beholder" however. If YOU yourself believe it to be true you will set yourself up…
    But there is no cosmic judge. It's you; according to your beliefs > which are most likely tainted due to those social engineering agendas…….

    I've read from several sources that Arnie is a shill. But headlines like these are too much. And don't think that They don't have superior technology to detox from anything. Gee, did anyone catch an astrological forecast on Fukushima? No astrologer caught that I gather. Sorry off topic.

    What I don't get is this other stuff out in space. We are supposedly entering a more dense galactic region; with it's inherent problems for a planet like this. According to some this is The reason for the underground cities. If they think we're going to get cosmically zapped why go through all this other ugliness?

    Much is disinfo. Are the other planets in the system Really warming and brightening? If so, why? Could be huge. So much going on we don't know about. Again, So much going on… but we're in this cauldron of artificially induced chaos.

    Alan Watt must be right. The rabble are literally fodder, a staging, for these other types to get on with…

  • jackassrig

    Give me my web cam thread BACK. Give me that thread. What has happened to the web cam thread?

  • Vorith

    Saw some more posts about karma. I'm sorry, I never kept links or sources. But as with anything this has been researched. The Doctrine of Karma was a clever meme from early priests in India or thereabout. This meme is, as we know, intricately tied in with reincarnation. Sorry again, as this idea, As commonly understood, is incorrect as well.

    NDE as well as "spirit" attachment research shows both ideas have some merit but they're not accurate reflections of reality.

    Imo, the most evidential phenomenon, Ironically, is this very PTB structure. They, have been at this parasitical game for Eons. Not since the 1700's with the Bavarian Illuminati etcetc.

    Consider my own thought experiment you've never read anywhere;

    Take any well to do elite or top ceo… How did they get there? DO you follow astrology? If so, check their natal chart. You will find alignments that reflect their lofty position, as well as abundant luck and or whatever aided that "ascension". Now we all know many of these types have willfully contributed to wanton destruction and suffering on a global level. For one, they are still ceo's but that's not the point.

    Point is that, IF KARMA IS VALID, they deserved or earned that lofty position in This life……..
    So ok, they earned that. So, how is it that a "soul" capable of works allowing such a lofty position can suddenly become so selfish as to kill millions then throw big parties etc?

    Of course, this points to the…

  • obewanspeaks obewanspeaks

    Yes, fodder is such an interesting word. 🙂

  • pjrsullivan

    If a Grand jury were to be convened to hear the allegations and see the evidence, is it not likely that at minimum, they would issue a True Bill charging the persons responsible for bringing nuclear technology into our world with Heinous Battery? As the operators of these plants know ahead of time what will happen when hot particles are loosed upon an innocent population, Might the Grand not raise the charge to aggravated Heinous Battery?

    If the Grand jury takes their time and does a good job of examining the evidence that is now in the public arena, might they not also charge the nuclear industry operators with mass murder by toxic waste? It looks as if hundreds of millions, if not billions of people, may be died off by nuclear waste.

    For this, Might the Grand jury not charge them and put them to trial for Atrocity and genocide?

    Is it not just too bad that we don't know the answer to these questions because we don't control the issue of our money to hire us some Grand juries?

    ENE News and the posters here are doing a great service educating us to what we are dealing with, giving us help understanding that we need to act. WE MUST ACT! To do nothing in the face of such harm coming in on us is not an option. Must we not get organized to do what needs to be done to get the Grand juries in operation to pull these nuclear wasters off of us?

    We need to have the authority to issue our money to protect ourselves. To gain this authority we must have labor STRIKE…

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    This is an interesting thread from the UC Berkeley Nuclear Department..
    Discussing what is a hot particle..
    Some great data on the radiation rate in the NW after Fukushima.

    "Here's the data (but not in easy-to-ready chart form found on…the first number listed under each location would be levels for U-238, and the second for U-234):





    Anaheim CA

    15 March



    Anaheim CA

    20 March



    Riverside CA

    15 March



    San Francisco CA

    18 March



    Saipan, Mariana Is.

    21 March



    Saipan, Mariana Is.

    24 March



    Guam (Mariana Is.)

    19 March



    Guam (Mariana Is.)

    23 March



    Oahu, Hawaii

    23 March



    Kauai, Hawaii

    21 March



    Seattle WA

    18 March



    Mean levels AWE (Atomic Weapons Establishment, UK)




    —–End of Chart Data———–

    Hot Particles

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    YouTube DHS Using Helicopter To Test Seattle Area For Radiation Level Readings
    July 13 2011

  • Heart of the Rose Heart of the Rose

    Some stats..

    "Debunk 1: "These levels of incidence are what you would expect in a ship's complement of 5,500."

    Not so…or indeed anywhere near it. I'm indebted to veteran Slogger Tig for pointing out that the lifetime prevalence of testicular cancer in US men is 0.4% … and 5.5 per 100,000 with the median age at 33.

    So in each group of 100 navy men you would expect 0.0055 of them to get testicular cancer anyway. Aged 18-25, somewhat less. You'd need a group of 20,000 navy male personnel to even get 1 case of TC via 'natural' occurrence.

    The USS Ronald Reagan has 5,500 crew, and nowhere near all of them are male. There are in excess of 20 cases of testes cancer thus far … and counting."

    Fukushima's cancer epidemic: the reality revealed
    Dec 25 2013

    • jec jec

      So about an 80% increase in testicular cancer(TC) for those 5500 soldiers? Of course, the gals don't get THAT cancer, but other such as breast cancer and illnesses of reproductive organs I bet. Wonder what the ratio for TC is in Japan? Wonder what the treatment in Japan is? Wonder what the ratio is going to be in the western USA??? Just saying…

  • Speedy

    I need input from you folks that are way more educated than myself..My wife, listening to me preach about Fukushima and the issues associated with radiation exposure, bought me a geiger counter for Christmas..She found it at an antique shop, that being said, is this relic usable or just another collectable for my man cave? It is a model 107B "professional" made by Precision Radiation Instruments Inc. Everything seems to be with the unit, including the headset and calibration disk. It does need batteries (45 vdc), which I will get if this unit is worth using..The measurement is in milliroentgen/hour. The unit is from 1950s, also included was the operation and maintenance manual, a uraniumm ore price chart (1955) and prospecting for uranium manual (US atomic energy commission and US geological survey,1951). Any info would be appreciated, is it sensitive enough to be used to test the air or precipitation? Thanks

  • Socrates

    I googled "hot particles west coast."

    Interesting material. Exposure, dose and response is very complex. We are being exposed to all sorts of bad things. Very political. Involves trillions of dollars

    Merry Christmas, everyone. Fukushima keeps giving.

    Arnie takes it from both sides. I feel sorry for him. He deserves our appreciation.

    Enjoy what is left and the time you have.

  • Seeker

    There is a poster here who states his own metaphysical views as if they are fact. I would love to see him debate the Buddha. It is bad enough to hear over and over that we are doomed, but then to hear this dogmatist say there's no hope from reincarnation or any other metaphysical theory is too much. If religion is banned here so should nihilism / atheism / et al total despair be banned. Immersion in Alan Wattism could easily lead to suicide, and needs to be balanced, if only by looking at Alan's own spiritual views (which are positive).

  • Seeker

    Bravo for your suggestion. I would like to see a separate forum for balancing negative thinking, as the Non nuclear one has a different focus. Just think of the wisdom that could be gained from a debate there. Some of us have studied the age-old wisdom traditions and know which New Agers are out to lunch. Let's combine our resources!

    Enenews is a vital service but can lead to paralyzing depression if one does not work hard to rebalance after coming here.

    How do we want to spend our last days? Ask Pascal!

  • Jebus Jebus

    On the west coast, they take a baseline reading, after Fukushima.

    Reminder: Radiation-surveying helicopter flights under way
    July 11, 2011

    Low-flying helicopters over Berkeley are measuring radiation levels
    August 29, 2012

    In Washington DC, they take baseline readings before a Fuku…

    Helicopter searching for radiation in nation’s capital
    January 07, 2013

    There must different forms of manmade nuclear radiation contamination.

    Merry Christmas, feel the warmth of the nuclear fire…

  • SykeWar(DELETED) SykeWar

    Greetings to all. First post. I am concerned about the effects of radiation exposure to the desalinization plants in Cali. and the drinking water they produce. Thus far I haven't been able to find detailed info on this. I did see NY built a desal plant 3.5 miles DOWN RIVER from the aged leaky Indian Point nuclear facility.