Published: September 15th, 2011 at 12:01 am ET
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Hydrogen dissolved from water exploded at Fukushima nuclear reactor: experts, Mainichi Japan, September 14, 2011:
[... E]xperts believe the explosion [at the No. 4 reactor building] occurred partly because huge amounts of hydrogen were produced in the process of water being dissolved by radiation in a boiling spent nuclear fuel pool.
A group of researchers from the University of Tokyo and the Japan Atomic Energy Agency made an analysis of the hydrogen explosion at the No. 4 reactor [...]
Tokyo Electric Power Co. [...] assumes that hydrogen entered the No. 4 reactor from the No. 3 reactor through a common exhaust pipe and exploded. [...]
Unconfirmed Report: 4th reactor also had a huge explosion on 3/15, Fukushima Diary by Mochizuki, September 14, 2011:
[...] NHK seems to have caught the explosion scene. (not broadcast it.)
It has been believed that 4th reactor is severely damaged for some reason, but nobody has seen any explosion.
As long as we see this video,it was a major explosion.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDXEhyuVSDk
Published: September 15th, 2011 at 12:01 am ET
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sending...
the translation is pretty rough (water being dissolved by radiation) but a boiling SFP makes a lot more sense than hydrogen coming over from reactor #3.
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Hi acid Lab,
I saw that late yesterday at fuku diary. I watched it there and also twice at You Tube and knowing what the ‘official’ verdict would be from gov. or tempco, I sent the link to Arnie Gunderson and asked him to take a look at it when time allowed.
I hope we get a more unbiased report from him on this. I got a robo answer back , but they are back at the office according to the notice, so keep our fingers crossed he can find time very soon to check it out !
Have a good day,
Peace
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I have read ENENEWS since its inception.
I have commented once in the past.
This story prompted me to register and comment once again.
We need clarity, real clarity on this issue.
I have never seen this footage before. The translation is odd and I think we need better information.
Some questions.
1) What was the status of reactor 4 at the time of the event?
2) Why was the footage of this withheld and not broadcast?
3) Why has all the focus been on the spent fuel pool on number 4 and not on the reactor itself? (Especially given that spent fuel in reactor 3 – the mox fuel reactor – had already blown in the largest explosion)
I ask these question because there is mixed reviews on reactor 4 ranging from no explosion to no fuel in the core at the time of explosion.
Some people point to reactor 4 as the smoking gun of an alternate theory as to what occurred in Fukushima and I think in order to provide clarity we need to know the answers to these three simple questions.
And Hydrogen through a pipe from reactor three simply does not cut it.
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“2) Why was the footage of this withheld and not broadcast?”
the video was broadcast on march 15 and posted on youtube back in april. it clearly shows reactor building #4 is still intact from both camera angles. the angle with reactor #1 blowing up is easy to see #4 still intact.
from the angle showing #3 steaming/smouldering you can only see #4 when the time logo isn’t in the way:
http://i51.tinypic.com/1zl69nc.jpg
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I agree this is one of the worst news posted around. quality realy going down around here.
radiation produced hydrogen (radiolysis) is a slow process and induce hydroge+oxygen inside equipments, in proportion leading to a higly probable detonation if this mixture is not managed soon enough.
corium oxydation produced hydrogen is a fast process, typical of meltdown. it leaks outside equipments once barrier integrity is lost (not “if” but “once”).
a vent pipe connecting two reactors is a MAJOR safety conception failure. I don’t know those installation design quite in detail but I bet (and hope) this is a mistaken reading of plans/data.
for all those things I suspect this “news” to be either
-a bad translation missing tons of info
-a troll
-a not knowing (and not reading comment around here) nuclear issues
-an intentionnal disinfo to divert from/dilute the true one
Regards
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as far as i know who Reactor 4 has always been described as “in cold shutdown” and reactor itself opened because the used fuel rods were in exchange. (old out, new in). maybe the consequence was: the spent fuel pool is full of new more radioactive rods and that is the difference between 4 and the other reactors.
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indeed, the spent fuel in #4 was fresh and very hot.
it was the initial reason the U.S. Gov’t advised its citizens within 50km to immediately evacuate.
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sorry, but isn’t it reactor 1 they show on the vid? its 1, 2, 3 and 4 from left to right or north to south… so where is the video of the reactor 4 explosion?
who came up with this conclusion?
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The large explosion is reactor 1 blowing up, but they also show some blurry footage of what could be the explosion at #4. Around 0:50 they show a big cloud/steam emerging from #4.
This picture is a plan of the plant site
http://probaway.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/nuclear_disaster_fukushima_reactors_.jpg
As you can see it is the view from the seaside, so it is opposite of the picture from the webcam in video.
You can see reactors #5 and #6 off to one side. The four other reactors are numbered in the opposite direction for some reason. This could lead to some confusion as to which reactor is #1 and which is #4.
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Hi,
I had a close look again. The steam at 0:50 raises from unit 3. You can see that the big mast which is between 3 and 4 is on the right and when they are zooming out you can see unit 4 for about a second at the right side of the screen before they put their logo above it. It is still in good shape that time and the left side of the reactor building is bright because of the sunlight.
What is worse than no information is false information… (not directed to you Hemisfear
)
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I think you are right, I see that too. I guess thay just mixed up the number of the reactors (se my post above)
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I think perhaps many folks don’t realize that there are several different cameras, with different angles, and also different color balance in the vids. Because of that it is very easy to see the same reactor appear to be a different one, and to change the apparent relative position of the reactors as viewed by the cameras.
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“you can see unit 4 for about a second at the right side of the screen before they put their logo above it.”
http://i51.tinypic.com/1zl69nc.jpg
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“The yield of hydrogen resulting from the irradiation of water with β and γ radiation is low [...] (however) If impurities are present or if physical conditions are created that prevent the establishment of a chemical equilibrium, the net production of hydrogen can be greatly enhanced.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiolysis#Hydrogen_production
it seems more and more likely that the radiolytic splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen in the SFP of reactor #4 was greatly enhanced by boiling temperatures in the pool. these temps prevented the establishment of a chemical equilibrium in which the hydrogen and oxygen could recombine inside the pool water. instead, the hydrogen and oxygen simply boiled off.
this “gentle” accumulation of hydrogen in the reactor building could help explain the less dramatic explosion that occurred there (vs. the explosion of reactor building #1).
the gradual accumulation of hydrogen likely produced an explosion near the ceiling of the building. this is because the SFP is located high up and little mixing would occur as the hydrogen quickly rose to the top of the building. and because of this localized concentration of hydrogen, far less (in total) would need to be present to reach the lower explosive limit.
building #1 seems to have contained a far larger amount of hydrgen when it exploded… most likely due to a large number of massive leaks in pipes and containment vessels as the reactor core violently melted…
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Reactor 4 is a mystery. May be the end of this video shows this event. I am not yet sure. Sebaschan is right – the picture shown is for reactor1.
I remember the panic in the news after this event. Reuters announced explosion, and a press conference held on this event in Japan. Japan news said it was a fire. The evacuation was decided exactly after this explosion. There was another one on a smaller scale on 31.05. TEPCO said it was a gas container underground. I`ve read strong arguments it can not be. Now 6 months later the first explosion is confirmed and some theoretical speculations start. I was puzzled even by the data from wikipedia.
Empty reactor, SPF in comparatively good condition and explosion! One good spectrometer at the cite during this explosion could tell a lot about the components in this smoke
So, one more question
What is the condition of SFP 4 now?
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@Pure water: “One good spectrometer…could tell a lot.”….
And that is EXACTLY why we will never see one. Even if they HAD one at the plant, we wouldn’t hear about it. They want to show the world community what is escaping in clouds just about as much as BP wanted to let Congressman Ed Markey (D, MA) force them to show the “spill-cam” on TV and the net. Markey had to publicly shame them to get them to allow the camera. Nobody high enough in the Japanese power structure seems willing or able to muster such toughness now.
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“Top Air Force Official Issues Religious Neutrality Policy in Wake of Truthout’s “Jesus Loves Nukes” Exposé”:
…”The memo was issued a month after Truthout published an exclusive report revealing how, for two decades, the Air Force used numerous Bible passages and religious imagery to teach nuclear missile officers about the morals and ethics of launching nuclear weapons, a decision that one senior Air Force officer told Truthout last month should have “instantly” resulted in the firing of the commanders who allowed it to take place.”…
http://www.truth-out.org/aftermath-jesus-loves-nukes-scandal/1316010154
Suckers.
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I’m guessing they skipped over Revelation 8….
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I would like to make a short summary. I refer to the GERMAN version of the Wikipedia, which is much more detailed than the 6 lines about Reactor 4 on the English Wiki. Even Arnie Gundersen is mentioned in the German version…
Due to maintenance works there was no fuel inside the RPV, this was inside the SFP ( capacitiy 94%; 1500 rods in SFP – 263 tons weight – 204 pieces not used – heat emission inside the SFP 4: 2260 kW [for example reactor 1 SFP heat emission: 180 kW, 400 rods in SFP, 400 in the RPV- now corium]
Gregory Jaczko from the US Atomic Agency said, there was no more water inside the SFP 4 TEPCO denied.3 months later the NRC said, Jaczko mada a mistake. Not sooner than on 20th of March they started filling water inside the SFP.http://www.webcitation.org/5z1r0QqOa
150 tons of water daily.From March 30 with sweet water.
April 2011
On April 13 Tepco announced that a few of the rods inside the SFP were damaged.High concentrations of Iodine-131 and Caesium-134 and Caesium-137 were found. Water-Temperature: 90 degrees Celsius (normal Temperature 40 degrees C.)
Water vanished too quickly if the SFP had no cracks or damage, as TEPCO still insists ( only one day TEPCO announced there was damage but they abandoned this announcment).
May 2011
Water + Hydrazine, Support columns.
End of July: new cooling circuit started.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuklearkatastrophe_von_Fukushima#Reaktorblock_4
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slight translation correction: Süßwasser = fresh water (not sweet) ..
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Vielen Dank^^
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slight translation correction: Süßwasser = fresh water (not sweet) ..
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Which leads me to the question, where all the new fission products come from, if not from the SFP 4, as Arnie Gundersen mentioned. There are 263 tons of hotrods inside this pool!
The coriums of the other 3 reactors are AS MUCH nuclear material as those in the SFP of reactor 4!
Please take a look at the photos http://cryptome.org/eyeball/daiichi-npp8/daiichi-photos8.htm
There is a video of the SFP on this website as well, but I do not believe that it was made in SFP4, but somewhere else.
This is my personal opinion.
I believe, SFP 4 is the worst part of the accident – if one can say so.
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“if one can say so.”
the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission certainly did.
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I do recall Arnie Gunderson’s concern about #4R’s spent fuel pool in one of his video reports.
His concern was that if the weakened structure of #4R’s spent fuel pool collapsed, that would amouunt to the deadliest event at the plant (due to major amount of fresh fuel rods there).
This tells me that there may have been something extremely BIG that happened at R4; hence the lack of video evidence (media cover-up).
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The explosions at reactor #4 and reactor #2 occurred within a few minutes of each other. What probably happened was the corium from reactor #3 was already underground at that point, and hydrogen and other gases found their way to #2 and #4 through either cracks in the ground, or areas around underground piping.
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That corium theory sounds better than the lame pipe transfer theory. Here is a little more of the excellent article I cited in General Discussion:
“In the first stages of the crisis, its true nature was not fully reported even to the rulers of the U.S. At an early stage, “From data collected by an unmanned Global Hawk spy plane, the U.S. realized that temperatures in the reactors were extraordinarily high. It reached the conclusion that ‘the nuclear fuel had already melted down’ and pressed its Japanese counterparts for accurate information.” In the early morning of March 16, with this information still being withheld from the public, the U.S. issued a threat: “We’ll issue an emergence evacuation order for all 90,000 Americans in Tokyo to leave Japan. Do you really want to plunge Tokyo into panic?” In response, the Japanese government finally yielded to a second American Occupation: it permitted the dispatch of a large number of U.S. specialists to crisis headquarters.3
The tight restrictions over information reported to the Japanese public continued even after that. It was not until June 6, three months after the incident, that the Japanese government finally acknowledged that the No. 1 reactor had melted down just five hours after the earthquake, or that several days later the other three reactors had also reached meltdown (the stage at which nuclear fuel rods melt into a pool on the reactor floor) and then melt-through (the stage at which the molten fuel melts…
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The 250 word caught me at the link:
http://japanfocus.org/-Fujioka-Atsushi/3599
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This is a fascinating article Sickputer but do you agree with the estimates of radiation released in comparison to Chernobyl and the atomic testing in the 50s and 60s?
Busby’s estimates based on air radiation levels exceed peak levels during atomic testing in 1963 (i think that was the year cited)
Also, soil contamination in Japan appears to be worse further out (away from the plant) than found in Chernobyl.
So, I wonder about this article’s representation of radiation releases.
Thoughts everyone?
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Japan Times reported on August 27 that Fukushima’s “Cesium Leak Equal to 168 ’45 A-Bombs.”
As of September 2011, the situation at Fukushima continues to worsen. Dr. Chris Busby reported on the Russian television network RT on August 17 that air filters from Tokyo are showing levels of Cesium-137 that are 1000 times higher than the levels of that radionuclide found in the air at the peak of atmospheric atomic weapons testing in 1963.
Busby also stated that plant emissions were reported to the Japanese Prime Minister by Tepco to be 10 to the 13 becquerels per hour.
Likewise, during an interview with Dr. Helen Caldicott broadcasted online on in September of 2011, Arnie Gunderson stated that he had been told that Fukushima was currently emitting a gigabecquerel per day (gigabecquerel or GBq 109 Bq), in radiation, which he described as over 2 billion decays per second a day.
[i] “Cesium Leak Equal to 168 ’45 A-Bombs: NISA Compares Contamination to Hiroshima Blast,” Japan Times (2011, August 27): http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110827x3.html.
[ii] Dr. Christopher Busby interviewed by Russia Today (RT) and uploaded to youtube “Christopher Busby: Chernobyl-like radiation found in Tokyo,” [RussiaToday] Youtube (uploaded 2011, August 17): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNzDg4O9dkw.
[iii] Ibid
[iv] Helen Caldicott interviews Arnie Gunderson: “Arnold Gundersen with a Fukushima update,” If You Love This Planet (2011, September ):…
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“This is a fascinating article Sickputer but do you agree with the estimates of radiation released in comparison to Chernobyl and the atomic testing in the 50s and 60s?”
He has delivered an educated guess based on tonnage of bombs and nuclear fuel plus fallout studies. So I would tend to give credence that he is at least in the ballpark of estimation.
At any rate it is s frightening ratio for one complex to be compared as 24% of all the bombs ever exploded.
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majiia typed these pixels of light:
“Busby’s estimates based on air radiation levels exceed peak levels during atomic testing in 1963 (i think that was the year cited)”
SP: 1963: A big year for testing indeed…so if Fukushima exceeded by a factor of 1,000 that SINGLE year and there were approximately 2,000 atomic tests over 3-4 decades…then the figures used by Fujioka Atsushi in his article seem plausible.
Ascribing Fukushima as 24% of all the bombs ever exploded has enormous consequences…because we know radioactivity from nuclear power plants is vastly more dangerous in isotopic behavior than atomic bomb blasts. Those blasts had decades to disperse their isotopes and in Fukushima the world is getting massive contamination over a short time frame.
If it does reach full expulsion of all fuel then the world will be in deep trouble. As it is Honshu island is in dire straits with only a tiny percentage of the fuel at Daiichi released.
If toxic releases rise to a level 100 times Chernobyl then far more than just Japan will be in serious trouble. Korea, western Asia and large parts of North America will be severely contaminated and the “vast” Pacific Ocean will become known as the NRC’s Maginot Line.
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But then: “Gregory Jaczko from the US Atomic Agency said, there was no more water inside the SFP 4 TEPCO denied.3 months later the NRC said, Jaczko made a mistake.”
Why did the NRC do so? Threatened by the Nuclear Industry Mafia? Then, what are all this institutions good for?
IAEA is in Vienna and all people love to visit beautiful Austria on company costs…
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there may have been pressure from the State Dept to get the NRC to say something, anything really… anything to get americans in the area to take the situation seriously. certainly the japanese govt wasn’t going to let people know how bad is was.
then a few months later the NRC could step in when it was safe to do so and pronounce that jackzo had “made a mistake”… and from a technical standpoint he probably did.
but from a safety standpoint he was being almost impossibly conservative… 3 full-blown meltdowns, explosions, an entire SFP in grave risk of being completely exposed and melting down… ugh
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Fukushima – China Syndrome – The Worst Case Scenario
Uploaded by alexhiggins732 on Aug 21, 2011
The China Syndrome — The worst case scenario — where nuclear fuel penetrates the earth and pollutes the
groundwater is happening at Fukushima.
TEPCO has acknowledged they just ‘discovered’ over 6,400 spent fuel rods in a basement beneath Fukushima which is
shared by all reactors at the plant. TEPCO has confirmed a groundwater leak in the basement.
“China Syndrome” “Nuclear Meltdown” “Japan” Fukushima” “Worst Case Scenario” “Groundwater Contamination”
“Nuclear” Radiation Radioactive Fallout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFLipZWlpOs&feature=player_embedded
I want you all to listen to the last words the man says here, going back to what I said may happen many months
ago may be coming to reality, I also commented on cracks will develop in the grounds emitting radiated steam
before it was reported, It may be too much to comprehend that soon massive explosions may be close at hand and a
domino affect to other coriums may also go, other reactors in the Northern area may well be in danger zone, tons
of the corium may take out much of Japan leaving a gapping hole in the earth for oceans water to flow into in the
aftermath of…. tons of earth and Japan may be blown to Kingdom Come into the atmosphere leaving the rest of the
world dealing with fallout of unimaginable consequences of ! And with over fifty other reactors in…
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And with over fifty other reactors in Japan and all
the spent fuel pools,… how can they be contained after this type of event if it was to happen ?
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xdrfox I hear you, I’m no expert on nuclear but my understanding is that to achieve a large nuclear explosion (like an atom bomb) the critical mass has to be created extremely quickly – usually with a trigger explosion – in a very controlled geometrically engineered way. I imagine a sudden steam explosion in a confined space might do a rough job of it, but I’d expect it to look more like the R3 event than one of those monsters we’ve all seen on the multi-megaton test series films.
That said, it would be exceedingly ‘dirty’
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It happen in #3, some of it is spread across miles around the reactor ! Was it on melt through and fell to the containment well floor were water awaited it ! Weight and compression, heat, or did the detonation happen at the top of the melted corium as did in Chernobyl taking off the top portion of the melting matter !
A concussion of one explosion has been know to set of other nearby arsenals/ordnance in the cases and lose ! This may have played a role here !
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xdrfox,
My take on the R3 explosion is that, compared to all the events in the first 30 days of this disaster, R3 was the most serious for the ejection of the worst particles abroad. There have been large pieces found a long ways away from the plant.
How did that much energy get released so quickly to cause that?
I just didn’t see a true nuclear explosion…Looks pretty simular, but I think that if R3 had achieved super criticality then that box of KAK would have disappeared completely…
Hydrogen? Box of KAK is stronger than that and box of KAK was built to withstand that…
Steam?…. Hmm, Steam is pretty powerfull, with pressure, don’t BWR”s have about 1000 psi? Lotsa energy there, but box of KAK was pretty strong though. Lots of cement and steel and it was or had to be venting some steam. Lots of water in box of KAK, steaming, venting, condensing at the top??? Was cold water being injected at that time all of a sudden?…
Water Hammer? Conditions just right for the largest nuclear water hammer event ever captured on video?
Hmm…
The Nature of Water Hammers
Water hammer is the unexpected release and associated shock wave of high-pressure steam/condensate,
or the shock waves created by colliding water. Water Hammers can cause extensive property damage,
severe injury, and death.
Many employees who work near high-pressure steam/condensate systems do not realize the hazards
associated with water hammers. Even experienced operators who know the dangers…
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Even experienced operators who know the dangers involved with the
systems do not fully understand the causes of water hammer.
Incidents
http://www.aegislink.com/portal/resources/publications_guides/loss_control/news/assets/39.do
UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF NUCLEAR REACTOR REGULATION
WASHINGTON, D.C 20555-0001
July 17, 1997
Information Notice No. 91-50 SUPPLEMENT 1: WATER HAMMER EVENTS
SINCE 1991
Purpose
The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) is issuing this supplement to
Information Notice (IN) 91-50 to alert addressees to continuing occurrences of
water hammer events at nuclear facilities. It is expected that recipients
will review the information for applicability to their facilities and consider
actions, as appropriate, to avoid similar occurrences. However, suggestions
contained in this information notice supplement do not constitute NRC require-
ments: therefore, no specific action or written response is required.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-notices/1991/in91050s1.html
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I have found more on this….
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Jebus,
Very good synopsis of the event !
A +
“It happen in #3, some of it is spread across miles around the reactor ! Was it on melt through and fell to the containment well floor were water awaited it !”
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Happens in wellheads too…
What Every
SAGD Engineer
Should Know
About
Condensation
Induced Water
Hammer
Mike Carlson
Manager, Reservoir Engineering
May 5th, 2010
History of CIWH:
• Boilers original application – foundation for
most pressure vessel codes
• Steam traps have been used for a long
time – practical experience
• Nuclear reactor failures (U.S.A.) led to …
• Fundamental research at MIT, Ph.D. Dissertation of
Robert Bjorge
• Design procedures and computer programs
• MEG Energy failure and Joslyn?
Conclusions
• Presented fundamental mechanism. It is
difficult to visualize
• History of catastrophic failures. Many
fatalities.
– Over 20 failures in nuclear industry before understood
– Numerous incidents in refineries, universities and power plants
• There are well developed tools from other
industries
• Requires specific conditions
• Horizontal pipes
• Subcool (temperature difference)
• Minimum rates
• Pipe fill
Conclusions (continued)
• CIWH can happen very easily in surface
facilities.
• Well pressure recorders, observation wells,
theory and computer programs indicate that this
is likely occurring in wells
• Potential wellbore problems that may be a result
of CIWH:
• Liner failures
– in a subcool event, hot steam enters liquid in wellbore – CIWH
• Sand production
• Hydraulic fracture complex to surface
• Shale fluidization in caprock (fracs terminate in caprock)
• High pressure drops into producing wells…
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what does this have to do with the explosion at reactor #4?
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Do you think reactor #4 is no longer a problem ?
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instead of posting a laundry list of random thoughts about the china syndrome try posting some concise thoughts or opinions about what happened in reactor building #4. specifically, why did it explode?
after all, it’s the main topic of this thread.
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acid Lab is now ene thread police?!? i didn’t even get an interview!
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acid Lab,
bite me !!
; |
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so no actual thoughts about what happened at reactor #4?
not even the slightest?
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why does it have to be a hydrogen explosion why not”it just got so hot in there it expanded the air and blew up like a concrete balloon?” as good a reason to me as any!
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@ acid Lab,
Think it’s pretty evident that no one knows for sure whatever cause of blast (old news) or what is left of it has surely joined the others travels to the depths earth getting back to the relevancy of my post !
: P
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The China Syndrome — The worst case scenario — where nuclear fuel penetrates the earth and pollutes the groundwater is happening at Fukushima.
The Intel Hub
By Dr. Mark Sircus – Contributing Writer
August 21, 2011
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/21/fukushima-china-syndrome-worst-case-scenario-61951/
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China Syndrome
Posted by Mark Sircus – Director on 21 August 2011
“In my book Nuclear Toxicity Syndrome is a much needed protocol that will provide a great measure of protection from radioactive fallout and mercury exposure. The desperate attempts to contain the fallout from the shattered atomic Fukushima Daiichi plant have failed, meaning the threat will continue to grow. None of us could have calculated in our wildest dreams the extent of what is happening in northern Japan and how the radiation would spread across the northern hemisphere….”
http://blog.imva.info/medicine/china-syndrome
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Yes anne,
Some of us in the beginning days began to think of the horrors of the unknown this would reap, as we saw more and more information and video’s, we knew what some had always feared would happen was in progress !
As the days went on, we saw more of ‘what if’s’ become reality and still do !
Hypothesis’s became facts !
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Everyone is worried about an explosion from the corrium hitting the ground water…I’m thinking the explosion wouldn’t be as bad as having the ground water throughout japan contaminated with radioactivity. I wonder if anyone has thought of a way to cut off the contamination from spreading thoughout Japan via this underground water system. That would really kill alot of people very quickly, drinking highly contaminated water and not knowing what is safe or not..seems like this pollution in tiny doses is very powerful. How much water can a gram of Plutonium contaminate. We know how it moves in the atmosphere and pollutes the air…how does it contaminate water?
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We had comments to this many months ago, there was no solution then either !
I think it is an inevitable fact that will happen regardless of anything man can do to stop it, this wall they are building will be too little too late to stop even the runoff into the ocean for the coriums will go deeper and irradiate upwardly in larger circumference’s, nothing will stop this beast and if there is a explosion it may be so vase there will be nothing left of the area around Fukushima and possibly even Fukushima Prefecture will be no more !
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many moons,
It is possible to create a ‘freeze wall’ to stop groundwater from moving into or out of an area. An oil company, I think Phillips-Conoco, has developed this technology for in-situ extraction of oil from oil shale. They drill wells, install piping, then circulate cold refrigerant through the ground. It’s possible to freeze the groundwater in the aquifer, enough to create a barrier.
For radiologically contaminated water, more refrigerant circulation would be necessary if any heat is coming from radionuclides, and there could be an upper limit if there was a lot of heat, but distance might counter excessive heat.
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americancommntr,
Interesting thought, idea !
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Mainly by air fallout. The ground aquifers will get that fallout via air to the soil and then into aquifers. Surface water sources are going to be contaminated first.
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To all:
I found that last evening early at fuku diary.
I watched it a couple of times there and a couple of more times at You Tube. It was odd for a number of reasons stated above, and we have all questioned #4 from time to time.
I sent the link to Arnie Gunderson last evening and asked him to view it when time allowed. I got a robo mess. back as it was after hours.
They are supposed to have come back 9/13, so maybe he will either email me back or do a vid about it? The ‘official’ word sure isn’t gonna give us a clue, that is a no brainer !
Keep our fingers crossed Arnie can give us some answers.
Have a great day,
Peach
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for some reason my finger wants to put an h at the end of peace every dam time !!
peach = peace ( at all times in furture too! )
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Peach be with you….
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U too !
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Don’t Forget. Peaches in Los Angeles-area found with radiation at more than double site background levels July 12th, 2011 (seems like a long time ago now)
http://enenews.com/peaches-in-los-angeles-area-found-with-radiation-at-more-than-double-site-background-levels
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I get my Peaches right up the road in Georgia. They are sweet, freestone ( that time of year) and no rads, at least not like you know where.
I know fresh is best, but shoot, canned peaches won’t hurt you like fresh ones will.
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Dear they: I LOVE fresh veggies and fruits. I’ve been eating fresh garden tomatos from a client’s new garden that I installed. They’re amazing. However, I’m going to be avoiding all root veggies.
, which I am NOT happy about. I love potatos, sweet potatos, yucca, parsnips, etc. Potato products have at least the double whammy problem of the radionuclide contamination being worse (starch, ground in the dirt) AND…GMO dangerous. Apparently, GMO potatos make other organisms with similar neurology go strange, mentally off, confused, forgettful when they consume GMO potatos. The same test subjects also experienced organ failure and the amounts ingested were NOT tremendous amounts.
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I am now avoiding ALL US meat & produce. The plan is to become 100% US food-free within a month or two.
No metal-mouth here for 2.5 weeks, I want to keep it that way.
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….and also with you!
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Good to see some peachful folks around…
(TPU, I think you coined a term here, lol)
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Good one B&B!
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Why it’s a dang dern love fest..
Some folks here been smoking marijuwanna”..
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I RESEMBLE that remark!!!!
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ya…some others dropping the bad brown stuff
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Hey peacepeach, I see theypoisonus’ newly invented term got adopted quite quickly!
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hmmmm … i seem to have encountered it before in my own spelling errors. the two words do rub nicely together… thank you TPU and all, for the reminder. made me immedietly want to give acid Lab a nice warm fuzzy you know where
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Well, my gloomy thoughts as I read through the comments and micro-analysis – with levels like these, we know Doomsday is knockin’ on the door…
How can that not be so? If I am wrong, someone please tell me.
I’m not criticizing. I like this site, and the comments, many of them are very educated and sophisticated. But the close analysis to me seems to be ‘of academic interest’ only.
Poison – an invisible poison – is circling the globe, in incomprehensibly large (and ever-increasing) amounts, and much of it with these incredibly long half-lives.
We are ‘dead men walking.’ I hope I am wrong. If I am, someone please tell me how and why.
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Lee Binder. the original translastion was correct. most homes in the middle east that are near enough to the ocean have both sea water and fresh water from a desaliniation plant. the fauctes in bathrooms generally will have sea water, while one faucet in the kitchen will have freshwater. they call that water “sweet water” because theres no salt in it.
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Bleep_hits_blades– I know that I’m not one of the brainiacs,…but even I see it EXACTLY as you stated,..plus one more. You clearly bring all the contamination avenues to the equation, the ‘ever-increasing amounts’. Now I’m starting to learn about the ‘decay-card’, if you will. Talk about a WILD CARD!?!
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StillJill…
Yes, like plutonium decaying into americium, I guess it is called.
I appreciate all of the info here, the links & websites, the thoughts & analyses… also like-minded people who are not in denial, la la land, etc.
But basically I feel like I just went to the doctor & got a very bad diagnosis. I think that is the situation for pretty much all of us, at least in the No. Hemisphere. And the others have more time, but basically this is looking like an ELE. Or as good as. Some life forms in some places will probably survive. Pockets of humanity might survive. Maybe the elites have it planned out and know where to go and when. Although they are certainly ‘sailing close to the wind.’
For a while I was trying hard with my diet & etc. & I still have pretty healthy habits, but more & more I am thinking – why bother? I have inhaled hundreds, maybe by now thousands, of ‘hot particles,’ some of them almost certainly plutonium, most toxic known substance. Etc. etc. etc. This has been going on for half a year now & no end in sight. In fact quite possibly worse is to come.
However, I am older (not THAT old, but in mid-60s). Easier for me to just give up. I feel for the younger people. Actually I have two sons who are in the prime of life.
It’s a disaster so great that it is hard to accept it as real, & the tendency is to vacillate in one’s perceptions – bounce around, feel hopeful & then do a bit more reading or check the real news, & have one’s…
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…one’s hopes dashed anew.
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over and over again. in some circles the term used for our plight is ‘scroomed’. not a happy thought..but those closest to me are being counseled to NOT have children. who will listen?
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chemfood -
Yes, that is what I’ve suggested to my son,
trying not to be too heavy-handed about it (that it’s not a good time to be having children).
Actually I even worried about it when I had my kids, because back then I was studying things like ecology, nuclear power, central banks/fiat currencies, water fluoridation, the suppression of holistic healing methods, the progressive loss of the government the founding fathers created for us… & its gradual replacement by the same mercantilist good ol boy system that the English & most other countries had & that the colonists revolted against.
Even before Fuk., I’ve been looking at the world scene & the efforts of the trans-national coporate/banking elites to get NWO/global monopoly govt.(totalitarian kine)& their wanton ways with natural resources, & the du use, & the (very serious/scary)planned hyper-inflation & food shortage that we are right on the cusp of right now,& all of the legislation turning the USA into a police state (also the unwarrented invasions and despoilation/take-over of resource-rich countries that can’t fight back)-
In a better world situation, grandchildren can bring a lot of happiness into the often dull & depressing lives of older people. But now to be honest I pity people with young children(& grandchildren) – & feel so badly for the children.
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