Published: September 22nd, 2012 at 9:37 am ET
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Follow-up to: TV: Officials report more bubbling around sinkhole -- Now over 20 sites have appeared (VIDEO)
Map of the wells and bubble event locations in the Napoleonville Salt Dome and Bayou Corne areas
Source: Louisiana Department of Natural Resources
Date: Sept. 21, 2012
Napoleonville Salt Dome Area
Here are closeups of the areas with higher concentrations of bubble sites:
Published: September 22nd, 2012 at 9:37 am ET
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Best kept secret in America until half of seven states blow up.
OK… Worst case scenario.
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Isn't it ironic that in this Age of Information and search engines at the fingertips, the population knows even less about the Gulf of Mexico, Fukushima, and now these potentially explosive sinkholes and fracking lines… But I bet they know that Lindsey Lohan was arrested again!
SP, I fear your worst case scenario because of the fracking.
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Information Age or is it just data, meaning does info only come from data processed to extract meaning?
Yes, we're bombed with data 24/7/365 and told we're informed, but that "data" is not always factual.
To be "information", some meaning has to be refined from the data.
We're told what the info is -
safe, clean, cheap, no imminent threat, etc.
Whats all that data mean?
Be scared. Be happy. Worry. Don't worry. Trust your overseers. "We"/"They" have the answers/solutions.
Extracting the signal from the noise takes time and committment, while MSM says "hey look over there People of The Switch!"
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Agreed, or-well. Back in the day when I taught the data/information/knowledge meme, my examples went something like:
Data: WalMart sold 100,000 widgets in September, 150,000 in October, and 200,000 in November. (What should they order for January?)
Information: Walmart's widget sales are increasing steadily by about 50,000 per month. (What should they order for January?)
Knowledge: Walmart's widget sales showed the usual pre-Christmas surge that precedes a new year dropoff. (What should they order for January?)
My punchline was something like "knowledge provides the ability to do the right thing with the information you have".
Media/government/corporations try to spin our understanding at all three levels – and when that isn't enough they just remain silent or change the subject.
We've got to figure stuff out for ourselves, even though a lot of people invest a ton of energy and money to make sure we don't succeed.
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Hi aigeezer, agree alround. Glad you substituted "knowledge" for "meaning".
Can't say why exactly.
Thoughts in a whirl.
"Wisdom" trying to sneak in there somewhere.
I sure appreciate having cyber presences
to learn from/with.
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or-well, "wisdom" is for poets but remains out of reach for me.
Hehe, I was so proud to be doing "knowledge-based systems" while most of the industry was (and is) stuck at the "information system" stage.
In that long-ago 20th century I never gave a thought to the possibility that media/gov/corps would thrive by creating an anti-knowledge world for us all – but here we are.
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aigeezer – "wisdom is for poets" – but no pressure eh – heh – an anti-knowledge world
for all good boys and girls
who won't dissent
who'll pay our rent
until the frogs are boiled.
Be well.
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following my little chat with AFTERSHOCK about harsh truth and i then translated it to harsh reality.. it left me thinking along lines similar to your chat here.
i'm thinking reality and truth are not always actually the same thing.. just as data and meaning and knowledge may not be the same thing, yet they contain similar components.
anyway, i'm having a late saturday night rave. poet's license applied for.
my point is, reality doesn't always equate to trurh. just as data may not equate to meaning.
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Good point, richard. Philosophers have a phrase "veridical reality", meaning reality that can be tested against actual physical events – the kind of "true reality" we encounter when we touch a hot stove.
In contrast, Dubya's reality featured an Iraq in which Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Dubya managed to impose his reality upon millions of people for a while, so it is certainly not a trivial notion. However, sooner or later, veridical reality trumps imposed reality.
Some of today's imposed realities include "safe nuclear", "clean coal", "cold shutdown" and so forth, as you know. One of life's big challenges is to distinguish between various imposed realities and veridical reality.
"There is no Santa Claus" is just the beginning of the reality/truth adventure. Some people are more adventurous than others, as we see daily.
Ooh – conundrum – late Saturday night for you in Oz, early Saturday afternoon for me in East Coast Canada and early Sunday morning at Fukushima. Which one is really true and/or truly real?
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nice expansion on that concept aigeezer, thanks for that insight.. and it's very on the mark for what i was expressing.
your comparison is right where i was coming from.
(my true reality now is that it's 2am in sydney, i should go to bed
)
i've one more post to make before that.
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Hi richard! As I recall you are "down under"…so does Truth go down the drain clockwise or anti-clockwise when the Powers That Be there get hold of it?
I remember a self-admitted pro-nuclear proselytizer here – DiogenesNJ – whose truth and reality seemed quite different from, well, many, I guess.
Nuclear True Believers cause me great concern. And then there are those who profess to be so, not because they are, but because they believe it advantages them based on a mindset rooted in some "truth" or "reality" others would dispute.
Perceptions turbulent waters…
I got my poets' license by forging it on a takeaway food wrapper. Don't tell anybody.
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Back again, unable to sleep. Oh, Kelly, how I tire of the popular disdain for the "population"…sorry, but the population is you, it's me, it is all our beloved family and friends. Well-to-do folks often overestimate the average man's access to computer technology and underestimate the vast reserves of multinational corporations keen on keeping their interests protected, and their criminal activity secret. Most of us work our heads off to stay afloat and many too exhausted for the kind of research it takes to get past the MSM. It's like a teacher getting angry about her students lack of interest rather than generating an excitement to learn! We can't share information from a position of arrogance if we truly want to generate change in our culture. But, I do agree the fracking industry seems the most likely culprit. Let's try to be sure our loved ones learn that from us at least half as often as the MSM shoves Lindsay's activity in our faces!
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Nothing frustrates me more than watching someone stare at a screen for hours and have no idea of what is happening in the world. A man from Louisiana sits in my cafe, checking the local news over coffee each day. I had to tell him about the sink hole because it isn't on CNN or MS channels, it's just another conspiracy theory to most. I have to return to Florida next month where restaurants proudly serve Gulf seafood. No one cares about the health of the customers enough to stop serving three-headed crustaceans and fillet of tumors. This quaint island is filled with wealthy vacationers with the time and resources to Google "Gulf of Mexico disaster" – but they choose to spend their days on Facebook, shopping, watching television, going to the movies…
There is no way to generate excitement for Fukushima or the GOM. A third of the adult population in the US is on some sort of antidepressant that robs them of their ability to care about disasters. Fukushima is a buzzkill so no one wants to talk about it.
Next week I am installing a new router for my cafe and banning Facebook. I want to create a 404 page for FB, with links to enenews, Natural News, and WRH. If they have time for Facebook, then they have time to catch up on Fukushima. Sad that I have to shame or guilt them into looking up Fukushima, but I will. I am creating a detox diet to alkalize the body and chelate heavy metals and radiation, too, which I hope will inspire some to research the topic…
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Well done, KAT. Every bit helps. Randall Munroe (who always "gets it" big time) has a poignant comment about media distractions today:
http://xkcd.com/1111/
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no spoiler, go look…!!!
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Awesome good luck and let us know how that turns out! A mind IS a terrible thing to waste.
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"…fillet of tumors." is just too brilliant for us mere mortals, KAT! Hope you don't mind if I steal it…
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With so little representation in mainstream media, it is difficult for those who promote justifiable disdain for that same media to do so from within.
I think the "powers that be" understand the potential of comm tech,
and have concerns the average person WILL use their access to it to develop better understanding.
Who's "winning"? I don't know. Is there a point when someone thinks "Am I one of those 'sheeple' I hear about? Should I learn more?" or is it always a reaction of "Don't tell ME I'm unimformed!"
I wonder how widespread the disdain for the population at large really is, or if it's confined to pockets in cyberspace.
"…many too exhausted for the kind of research it takes to get past the MSM." So true. As you say, sharing information – factual data and data analysed to extract meaning – is necessary if there's to be any counterweight to MSM overload of fractionated, soundbite, distraction, mis-information and deception.
Revealing those protected interests and secret criminal activities is one path to encourage the question "Why wasnt I told this?" A position of compassion for the uninformed is better than dismissal for recruiting.
I'm as guilty as any in expressing discomfort with those unwilling to look beyond MSM gruel. How to deal with those who say openly "I don't want to know!" confounds me, except to leave them alone and hope it's true it only takes a small percentage to effect change.
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10:01 was to michellemamarn. Same conversation anyway. Those screen hours are many for many indeed. The "buzzkill factor" is a big problem when we're constantly encouraged to escape our cares so many ways.
Except we're not !!!! At least, not exclusively…
We're constantly being "downered" at the same time as we are being spun to get "uppered".
If not "uppered" then encouraged to cope thru dubious solutions.
Here – buy this product/idea. It'll make you/your life better.
You need it. Why? Because you are lacking. Feel bad/feel good.
But it doesn't work. Feel bad. Get more. Feel good. Fail. Look at that! Can't you be happy? What's wrong with you? You're sick! take drugs! Don't worry, we got all the fixes you need. Trust us.
Products. Beliefs. Solutions. Ideologies. Nukes…
Good for you Kelly.
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They once laughed at the panicked warnings…
Their quiet graves now filled with regret…
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AFTERSHOCK -
to continue your lines…
but now things are getting stormy
order now from your TV set!
Our gas masks may look alarming
but they are the best you can get!
In fashion colors most charming
with filtration levels pre-set!
And for complete protection from harming -
our radsuits will work when they're wet!
Air-conditioned for drought-era farming
with a pouch for a very small pet!
This offers' closing is imminent,
as our office is in a bayou,
near where a sinkhole is forming,
and a gas cavern is ready to spew.
No mockery is my intention
for those held in rapt attention
nor those threatened by an explosion
simply Big Medias' deadly corrosion.
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http://www.chem.queensu.ca/chembook/articles/ethane_fire_in_fort_saskatchewan.htm
http://facebook.com/oasishdchannel
Not exactly yet. The exchange rate is in impetus though.
The relief rate is in doubt.
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http://www.oasishd.ca/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=2:how-sinkholes-are-formed&Itemid=4
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Please note that gas seeps out from the soil all over the area.
It's visible through bubbling only where water covers the surface.
So, the situation is way worse than one might think.
Let's hope there will be a big spectacular explosion soon that wakes up people.
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I want to talk about some things past and present. Gas Explosion Brenham explosion a few years back
http://www.allysite.com/brenham.html A SPECIAL THANKS to Time Is Short for the story
Brenham is 68 miles from me bird shot wise, and When the explosion happened it shock my house and cracked some of my windows.I was working at channel 2 news here in Houston Part time and called the news desk and said to get the chopper up and go to the west I was working on a massive explosion, which Jack on the desk did , he said what happened I said Jack something blew up and it is HUGE.
I heard BRYAN a ham radio operator a very good friend of mine screaming he was hurt and his home collapsed. I called emergency people then told Bryan to hang on, his bedroom ceiling had fallen on him he was found to be ok some bruises I think. Homes and businesses trees and everything in a 20 mile radius was gone or damaged to some degree. And this is small compared to what is happening in Bayou Corne.
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A couple of notes:
Millican is 13 miles from College Station (FM2818 @ FM2154), not 8 miles as the story states.
Wesley is not in the Brazos Valley as the story implies, being 30 miles west of the river at the closest point.
The danger of explosion depends a great deal on conditions. A pipeline is basically more dangerous than a salt dome, because the pipeline is above ground and has ample access to oxygen. Explosions occur when combustible material mixes with the proper amount of oxygen and reaches flash point. I mean, look at the historical Texas City explosion if you want an example.
This is not saying that there is no danger of explosion at Bayou Corne. But to imply that the entire dome could go up in one massive explosion is a bit of a stretch. For the whole dome to go up, oxygen laden air would have to reach the dome caverns where the butane and other combustibles are stored. Simply lighting the escaping gas above ground would not be sufficient to ignite the gas below ground. There would have to be a sufficient collapse of the dome to force the gas to the surface where it could mix with oxygen before a massive explosion would occur.
I'm not trying to downplay the possibility of an explosion or a series thereof. Gas leaking from the ground is a danger not to be taken likely. There are a lot of examples in recent history showing just how dangerous it can be. But the possibility of Louisiana going bye-bye in one big fireball is stretching it.
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However, a pipeline can be simply shut off. A leaking well cannot.
Let's hope this Bayou Corne incident will be different in the manner that the outburst will not be at the drilling well itself, but at many of the spots where gas exits the earth.
Many "gas springs" exploding and burning for weeks would be the ideal scenario to get MSM cover the issue.
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The gas escaping from the Bayou Corne incident is yes HOW BIG IS IT and it is still growing,and getting much bigger. Is there a huge bulge of pressure underground? is this release a venting or something much worse like the site Dome tilting over and falling in or the start of a Biblical Disaster?
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I get your point and concern, but cant help from thinking its a story of bad business decisions and morals and bad engineering abilities more than a chapter of the universe. A surprisingly small group of people put so many people in peril. I want to keep my focus on the right people responsible.
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can anyone run some numbers on the length of time this dome has been bubbling and how much propane has escaped?
if we have a stable escape rate, below the deflagration mixture, how long does this need to continue to exhaust the dome?
Now i think Texas Brine has lost the stored product, but, will we lose Baton Rouge is my question.
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It is hard to do numbers on this because we have so little information. Early reports talked of a storage cavern with 1.5 million barrels of butane. If butane barrels are the same as oil barrels, then that would be about 63 million gallons. My understanding is that there are fifty caverns, and there is no way to know how many are involved. Also, there are nearby gas lines.
Butane boils at about 32 degrees F, 0 degrees C. When it is released, it cools down what is left behind, so it cannot all be released at once. Also, in order to have an explosion, a quantity of it has to be mixed with the right amount of air. It is not a high explosive, so an explosion would consist of a flame, making everything expand rapidly, and travelling through the mixture as it does.
I know there are "scientists" who talk about the equivalent of a hydrogen bomb. But butane, natural gas, and whatever are not high explosives, so there is not supersonic shock wave. Even if we stacked high explosives of the correct amount, they could not be made to equal the blast of a hydrogen bomb, because the characteristics of the blast are different.
I worry about long term effects to the aquifer and the atmosphere. This stuff is nasty. But it is not a hydrogen bomb. The explosion in Texas City in 1947 was more like an atom bomb than this could be, and people felt it – hard – 60 miles away. The salt dome is a wee bit closer than that, but the explosion could not be as sharply felt.
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I often wonder, when hearing about explosion events compared to atomic bombs, if it's to dramatise the event – or – somehow normalise the atomic event. Or both.
As you point out, there are differences.
Equivalent to "a" nuke bomb, or "X" kilotons or "X" megatons is more , uh, imagistic than informative.
OK, we get it, big explosion.
Apart from the physics of the explosive process, all very interesting or not, what about the resulting short, medium and long-term consequences for air, water, soil, people,…
I would think that those involved would NOT want a non-nuclear explosion compared to a nuclear one.
Maybe I'm simplistic, using "single think" while being subjected to not double but "triple think".
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My guess is they would be happy to have us fixed on the idea of a hydrogen bomb, which they can argue with rather easily. I think what they really do not want us to do is wonder whether the aquifer is compromised, so bubbles will come out of tap water many miles away, ruining the value of thousands of sqaure miles of real estate, not to mention people's health.
Also, they probably don't want us wondering about the carbon footprints of the gasses released.
I don't want to downplay this thing. I just don't want people having trouble sleeping over disasters that have almost no likelihood of happening, and particularly when we should be realistically worried about something else, and something that people can do something about.
The gasses bubbling up should be trapped, rather than letting them leak in to the air. And probably all the caverns in the salt dome should be emptied and their contents moved elsewhere. But all that takes money, and the people who own this stuff don't want to be separated from it.
I really wonder what kind of lunacy it takes to convince someone he can pump gasses underground, with the idea that they can be stored there, liquified, under pressure. Have these people ever heard of cracks? Caverns collapsing? Clearly there have been geologists who cannot imagine a sinkhole like this one. Otherwise, it would never have been tried. (But then, maybe it would have been, anyway.)
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Yeah, it's hard to imagine there were no geologists who were/are opposed to the whole idea, but how could they get their voices heard over the voices of the ones on the right payrolls?
I agree they don't want us thinking about negative consequences and the profit-consuming processes needed to deal with same.
The first part of my comment @12:53 was more of an aside not specifically directed at this issue.
I don't think you are downplaying.
I think the monied interests involved must be wondering how many communities subject to the same risks will be awakened by this sufficiently to do something about it.
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FYI:
The Oklahoma City bombing used something more than two tons of ammonium nitrate as its primary explosive. The Texas City Disaster explosion involved 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate, and was considered to be the power of 1.134 kilotons of TNT. Ammonium nitrate is a high explosive. With or without confinement, it will cause a blast.
If you turn on a gas burner on a stove with the pilot out, and then try lighting it with a match, the "whoof" that results is an explosion. A butane or natural gas explosion would be similar, but more powerful. If it is contained, it could be quite impressive, but as gas bubbling out of the ground, it would be more like what the stove does. That is a low explosive.
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Its not propane, Pat. It's definately methane. It is not the same as any other natural gas stored in the dome. It is coming from someplace other than the dome storage. Being thermogenic methane, it is likely from a deep source. There is no way of telling at the moment how much of it there is, or exactly where its coming from. Not looking good, unfortunately.
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markw great story about Benham, good info good reporting.
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Watch this playlist from high to low. 17 Videos from 2010 the rest of newer date.
I saw these things unfold back in 2010 to many's disbelieve.
Now its happening. This is for real, very real.
You must leave this area asap.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuJLNpctwtDzah_568Av7_6fEjhx-WhvG
God Bless You
Henning
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